Hindsight is kind of the point of this. That said, Cyan being a townie is not one of the things we know, and it is not one of the things I have been assuming.
Kind of. Your assumption that a scum Cyan must have "balls of steel" to say he was in favour of the LJ lynch given that the inspection would be used on him, for example, demonstrates bias. If Cyan had argued against, he would have been accused of being afraid of the investigation SO FAST and absolutely either lynched or investigated, after all. The way he played it was the only way a good scum could have played it, IMO. Of course, a townie would have played it the same way. But it doesn't make it less likely that Cyan is non-town.
At any rate, for now this argument remains a sidetrack as I'm pretty happy that Cyan is most likely neutral, not mafia, and thus is not actually the play now or for the foreseeable future.
Apparently, CM hasn't read the rules, else he not count DYH's vote. Unless this is more mod trickery.
Quote from Azrael »
For the moment.
Also, Cyan as mafia doesn't seem right considering everything that's come out. I don't think it's impossible that he'd be neutral, but I think if Axelrod is town (and based on the flavor, he probably is), then Cyan makes more sense as town. Unless I'm missing something here.
Apparently, CM hasn't read the rules, else he not count DYH's vote. Unless this is more mod trickery.
Or DYH has changed his avatar back...
Also, Cyan as mafia doesn't seem right considering everything that's come out. I don't think it's impossible that he'd be neutral, but I think if Axelrod is town (and based on the flavor, he probably is), then Cyan makes more sense as town. Unless I'm missing something here.
You just reminded me... What do the spoons do, really? Something just doesn't add up about them.
If given to scum they're +2 to lynch: We've already shown that if someone is going to be lynched, it's quite easy to get the extra 1/2 votes needed. The only way I can see this ruining a win is in the lategame and creating an unlynchable scum. However, this doesn't even push it to a loss... just a draw.
If given to town, their code can't be changed: Now, it may just be me, but we haven't had any flavor signifying code changes. If fade hadn't mentioned it, I would have believed it would referred to the cult, but it's not even that.
Note, I don't think you're mafia because of being roleblocked Night 2. However, that doesn't discount you from being some type of neutral...
Now, I'm off to look into something concerning our SK...
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Pod (intentional lurking, and deserves to have his posts analysed, so i guess I'll do that), Alx (vampire comment... it's not enough to build a case on by itself, but so many people make cute comments as scum on day 1 for their own amusement. I still recall picking up epeeguy's SK comments in like post 10 of RottK and him turning out to be SK!). loran- I have been becoming convinced by the cases on him and by the tone of his replies, and intend to make a larger contribution to this one shortly. Possibly cp, there might be other explanations for his behaviour (his interactions with fade- who by his claim should not possibly have inside information on cp- have been confusing) but the attacks on atlseal and the attempt to act like he wasn't involved in the town's lynches of non-atlseal people were bad.
I also expect a couple of neutrals around the place. Cyan, obv. DYH and Hawkeye are both very confusing, generally unhelpful and quite possibly in this category too.
The people I am most sure are town besides myself are the masons and Grakthis, with Spoon (play) and Jeffe (play gives me a sincere vibe even if he did make a couple of Captain Obvious statements, and claim of being able to confirm himself) on the next line. I also lean very town on atlseal at the moment, due to proving the investigation and his disappearance scene yesterday all but confirming him as the cheshire cat.
@Hawk : I haven't tried to change my avatar, and don't think I will (too fishy).
I still don't get where you're going with your questionning of DYH.
Too fishy?
You’re kidding right?:rolleyes:
Well, anyone else brave enough to try this? Switching your avatar, that is.
Thing is, you don’t even have to try to change it to Agent Smith.
Just try to change it to anything other then your original avatar.
Remember that you will have to check with Azrael before you do it.
DYH, can you change your avatar to anything other then the cult member avatar, Agent Smith, or your original one?
Your vested interest in me is disconcerting. You hadn't made one comment about me that I can recall until I mysteriously ended up with this restriction and voted you outright today. Frankly, I think you did this to me and that ability reeks of a mafia cop variation. I bet you're one of those machines underneath! You'll kill me in my sleep won't you?
Vote: Hawkeye7
Hmmm.
Keep talking DYH, just keep talking.
While you’re at it, why don’t you answer my questions?
Both the ones from my prior post that you ignored and the new ones.
I think your answers, or lack of them, will be very interesting.
All this is probably going to get me killed tonight.
All right, Townies, promise me one thing though, If I die before I reach the summit, you will use me as an alternative source of food.
Ok? Promise.:halo:
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Vote Hawkeye. I don't know what it is, but something in the antagonistic nature of that post(and alot of his posts this game) comes across as very non-town to me.
Plus, the whole 'All this is probably going to get me killed tonight' might as well be the #1 scum cliche in the game of mafia.
You just reminded me... What do the spoons do, really? Something just doesn't add up about them.
If given to scum they're +2 to lynch: We've already shown that if someone is going to be lynched, it's quite easy to get the extra 1/2 votes needed. The only way I can see this ruining a win is in the lategame and creating an unlynchable scum. However, this doesn't even push it to a loss... just a draw.
If given to town, their code can't be changed: Now, it may just be me, but we haven't had any flavor signifying code changes. If fade hadn't mentioned it, I would have believed it would referred to the cult, but it's not even that.
Note, I don't think you're mafia because of being roleblocked Night 2. However, that doesn't discount you from being some type of neutral...
Now, I'm off to look into something concerning our SK...
I thought about that. In the end, it takes away a bit of the drawback... it makes me the worst cop ever, except that the ability isn't worth wasting on such a poor strategy that can backfire so badly.
Vote Hawkeye. I don't know what it is, but something in the antagonistic nature of that post(and alot of his posts this game) comes across as very non-town to me.
Plus, the whole 'All this is probably going to get me killed tonight' might as well be the #1 scum cliche in the game of mafia.
so you're voting for me because you think my a lot of my posts sound antagonistic and that equates to non-townie to you, is that right? This and what you are calling the #1 scum cliche, is the basis of you vote?
Care to comment on way or the other on the content of anything I have said, instead of just the tone? How about posting a case to support your vote?
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Actually, I posted plenty of reasoning that I found you suspicious at the start of Day 2, but then it all got pushed to the side after atlseal's investigation. But of course, you're not going to acknowledge that.
Actually, I posted plenty of reasoning that I found you suspicious at the start of Day 2, but then it all got pushed to the side after atlseal's investigation. But of course, you're not going to acknowledge that.
So, did you forget those reasons when you posted your convincing and decisive vote for me?
Vote Hawkeye. I don't know what it is, but something in the antagonistic nature of that post(and alot of his posts this game) comes across as very non-town to me.
Plus, the whole 'All this is probably going to get me killed tonight' might as well be the #1 scum cliche in the game of mafia.
You did not mention any of them or even that you had been suspicous of me in any way earlier in the game. In reading this post I think it is very fair to say that you appear to be voting based on two extremely weak Feeling based reasons that lack any demonstrative factual value.
Care to perhaps post a real case maybe?
Oh, and would you be so kind as to address the points I have, appearently in too Mean a way, made or to try to see if you can change your avatar?
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Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
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Hmmm.
Keep talking DYH, just keep talking.
While you’re at it, why don’t you answer my questions?
Both the ones from my prior post that you ignored and the new ones.
I think your answers, or lack of them, will be very interesting.
You mean these?
Quote from hawkeye7 »
So, why would old Peter be able to change his avatar?
I've already answered this. Read the special rules. #7, specifically.
Quote from hawkeye7 »
DYH, are you quite sure you don’t want to rethink the answers you gave in this post?
Are you the person who actually answered the questions ?
Or are you just the person who posted the answers to those questions?
Can you tell us how to make it stop?
Can you tell us how to get out of here?
If you can’t tell us, is there someone else who knows?
Aside from the first, which is "yes, I'm sure", none of these really even warrant a response. I don't have the slightest clue what you're trying to ask with the next two. Then it would be no, no, and I don't know, but I'm not sure how you would expect anything different, really.
Quote from hawkeye7 »
DYH, can you change your avatar to anything other then the cult member avatar, Agent Smith, or your original one?
I can change my avatar to whatever I darn well please unless you can point me to something that says I can't. It's staying with the current one because I like having my vote on you as I think you're scum.
I'll be happy to change it to my 24 avatar or a picture of a pretty flower or something if anyone else really wants me to - but I'm done dancing for you. I've not been through everything in my life to play the fool for some director.
Quote from hawkeye7 »
All this is probably going to get me killed tonight.
All right, Townies, promise me one thing though, If I die before I reach the summit, you will use me as an alternative source of food.
Ok? Promise.:halo:
Uh huh. I'd rather see enough pressure on you today to determine if you even need to make it to night. I could do without your nightmares.
So, did you forget those reasons when you posted your convincing and decisive vote for me?
I voted for you yesterday, also. So it wasn't really a 'decisive' vote, just a continuation.
You did not mention any of them or even that you had been suspicous of me in any way earlier in the game. In reading this post I think it is very fair to say that you appear to be voting based on two extremely weak Feeling based reasons that lack any demonstrative factual value.
Care to perhaps post a real case maybe?
Oh, and would you be so kind as to address the points I have, appearently in too Mean a way, made or to try to see if you can change your avatar?
Such over-defensiveness is a big tell under normal circumstances. In this case, it's an even bigger one.
Also, you completely blew off all of the points that I made yesterday. Why take the time and effort to repost them..just so you can do it again? You can look it up, I'm sure. And anyone that has read the thread knows that I made them, I fail to see what is accomplished by going out of my way to reference my own posts. You're really grasping at straws, here.
And why do I need to address points that you made to someone else? As for changing my avatar..I don't even have one, and no, I'm not going to just randomly use the Agent Smith one just to see what happens. Your insistence upon this is both silly and suspect. And I love how you try to brush off the obvious hostility in some of your posts as calling it 'apparently too mean'..charming tactic, that.
I've already answered this. Read the special rules. #7, specifically.
Aside from the first, which is "yes, I'm sure", none of these really even warrant a response. I don't have the slightest clue what you're trying to ask with the next two. Then it would be no, no, and I don't know, but I'm not sure how you would expect anything different, really.
I can change my avatar to whatever I darn well please unless you can point me to something that says I can't. It's staying with the current one because I like having my vote on you as I think you're scum.
I'll be happy to change it to my 24 avatar or a picture of a pretty flower or something if anyone else really wants me to - but I'm done dancing for you. I've not been through everything in my life to play the fool for some director.
Uh huh. I'd rather see enough pressure on you today to determine if you even need to make it to night. I could do without your nightmares.
Unless I am completely misreading my PM, the answers of two specific questions I asked Azrael and the wording of special rules. #7, I'm saying you are lying DHY.
I think you can only change your avatar to the Agent smith avatar and your original one. That is why I asked you about it repeatedly. As for your dancing for me, that's an odd phrase to use for me asking your to demonstrate a particular ability and to answer some questions, and the response you have given. Dismissive, evasive, uncooperative.
Cyan, I find it exceedingly ironic and humorous that you are upset about what you have repeatedly called hostile posting on my part. Considering your standard style of posting. I also find it interesting that it was DYH that was the first person to bring up anything like this criticism when he made a comment about a post I made that I had even labeled as being a sarcastic response in the post.
I am going to wait to see if DYH is willing and able to change his avatar to something new or if anyone else can.
If DYH is unwilling or unable to demonstrate this I will be voting for DYH and post my case for doing so tomorrow.
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W – 33, L – 19, Broke Games - 9
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Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
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Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
A)You're misrepresenting my position, and attributing it to an emotional response at the same time. I am not 'upset' about your responses. I simply find them highly out of character, which makes them suspect. Similarly, insinuating that my playstyle should somehow grant you a pass based on highly abberant playstyle alterations on your part is also scummy. Lastly, what does the fact that DYH pointed out you being sarcastic have to do with anything?
With Smith dispatched, the town settles into a more sedate routine. Polishing sunglasses, playing with silverware, shoving the bodies of Sutherland clones off the building, and savoring tiny crumbs of cake. The gravity of the situation remains clear, but the sense of panick and urgency has momentarily subsided.
But the debate seems to be moving forward in bullet time. Your scattered contacts with the outside only confirm that the problem is getting worse.
DYH, of all those assembled on the top story, seems to be most conscious of this reality. His paranoia peaks as the day creeps on.
He begins walking from one person to the next, tugging at their skin, removing their glasses and peering deep into their eyeballs. When he reaches the shimmering outline of the man with red sneakers, forlornly and silently attempting to clean the indelible streaks of mud from his beloved shoes, and his hand passes straight through, he cracks.
With a wail of despair, he rushes from the room, his arms and legs a blur of motion. You each make a motion to follow and retrieve him, when the blast of the gun rings out from a storefront, passing through one temple and out the next. He sways to the left, his stomach catching the rail, then flips over headfirst. When he hits the ground, the marble chess-board pattern on the lowest level gains its first small crack.
A hasty investigation of the storefront fails to reveal the shooter, and his body, upon investigation, reveals no signs of weaponry or malign intent.
This seems obvious, but I'm guessing that our SK is a daykiller.
@ Cyan: ya think? It's an Az game, what did you expect?
Of course, his RP'ing wasn't exactly solid...Az, what that a mod-kill, or did our AzWoLG decide to fire today? if it's the latter, why didn't he shoot yesterday? (Yes I know atlseal faded out, but that wasn't exactly a shot, and he came back at the start of the day)
Has anyone noticed that even though Dwight is dead, he seems suprisingly active...I is so confused...meaning no cat macro for this post...
Vote Count of Ultimate Destiny 2 Alx-Cyan, ZDS
2 Hawkeye7- Charm_Master, Cyan
3 Loran16- Abbeygargoyle, grakthis, J-Effe IV
1 AbbeyGargoyle - Alx2
1 ZDS - CP Not Voting: Everyone else.
19 alive, 10 to delete
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...no, Cyan doesn't have 2 votes, I'm fixing it... hopefully PDog can do better with this than me...
Vote Count of Ultimate Destiny
1 Alx- ZDS
2 Hawkeye7- Charm_Master, Cyan
3 Loran16- Abbeygargoyle, grakthis, J-Effe IV
1 AbbeyGargoyle - Alx2
1 ZDS - CP Not Voting: Everyone else
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DYH RPed. You can't force someone to RP 'well'(not to say he didn't, I thought he did fine). Most likely the SK fired at atlseal yesterday, but he was untargetable for some reason.
I am going to wait to see if DYH is willing and able to change his avatar to something new or if anyone else can.
If DYH is unwilling or unable to demonstrate this I will be voting for DYH and post my case for doing so tomorrow.
Why tomorrow and not today?
Also, Vote: loran16. I think I am happier pursuing him out of those three I stated. I would pick him over Alx at the moment and the point on untargetability is noted as well.
Of course, his RP'ing wasn't exactly solid...Az, what that a mod-kill, or did our AzWoLG decide to fire today? if it's the latter, why didn't he shoot yesterday? (Yes I know atlseal faded out, but that wasn't exactly a shot, and he came back at the start of the day)
Considering there was a gunblast, I would say it's a murder done in cold blood.
The roar of a bullet sounds forth from the mass huddled around Atlseal. The sound of glass breaking and cracking fills the room, as the projectile passes through the floor, causing spiderweb cracks. Hurriedly, the crowd jumps back, avoiding the damaged panel.
But nothing and no one remains where Atlseal was just sitting. Only the ghost of a transparent smile, and soon, even that disappears.
Notice the gunshot? Could it be that Atlseal was the SK's target yesterday?
DYH RPed. You can't force someone to RP 'well'(not to say he didn't, I thought he did fine). Most likely the SK fired at atlseal yesterday, but he was untargetable for some reason.
Something wacky was going on with ATL yesterday.
I hinted at this once already yesterday, but just to confirm it today, I was unable to target him during the day yesterday.
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Um, yeah. So clearly the scum day-killer is shooting people. Arim on Day 1. Atlseal on Day 2 (which failed b/c atlseal "vanished") and now DYH. I don't know why he picked DYH. All DYH did today was act crazy and recently push on Hawkeye7. Possibly this is totally a reputation thing. It would be pretty unsubtle for Hawkeye (as a scum-daykiller) to pop DYH in an effort to "save" himself. Also, his whole attack on DYH for avatar use and recent threat to vote him if DYH didn't prove he could use another avatar doesn't quite jibe with him intending to shoot DYH.
This, of course, does not mean that Hawkeye is not scum. But less likely to be that day-killer perhaps.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I hinted at this once already yesterday, but just to confirm it today, I was unable to target him during the day yesterday.
Wait, are you claiming to have an additional day ability as well (if so, I'm not asking what it is), or is the -2 "disease" cure you mentioned done during the day?
@Everyone: For those of you that are confused, I can pretty much guarentee I was targetted by the SK yesterday unless someone else tried to kill me during the day by shooting.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
I think we can safely conclude that we have an SK daykiller who has targeted arim, atlseal and DYH.
The good news is that DYH's voluntary use of the smith avatar didn't autocult him or anything like that (unless that only happens once we go to night, /paranoia). That gives us some late game options. ESPECIALLY for those with vote drawbacks.
The interesting news is that DYH has turned up as "townie shrink", possibly a psychologist role. Might be worth seeing if he has breadcrumbed any targets, help us eliminated some people from being the SK.
Wait, are you claiming to have an additional day ability as well (if so, I'm not asking what it is), or is the -2 "disease" cure you mentioned done during the day?
Yes. I claimed that yesterday....
It's getting hard to keep up with the amount of info being tossed around, and I hate contributing to it... but I thought yesterday I made it clear that I attempted to target you but my action failed.
On a completely unrelated topic.... a recent event has caused me to also discover an untargetable player. I went back and searched for this post so I could find out who it was who said it earlier in the day.
I think it's EXTREMELY likely we are talking about the same person (same flavor), but I am roadblocked in trying to figure out what we can take from it.
I have no interest in saying more on this topic right now, so don't ask. But I wanted this post out there as a JIC and to verify that Alx is most likely telling the truth and to confirm that he was not roleblocked last night.
Well, now that we can clearly see that DYH wasn't scum, Hawkeye looks scummier than ever.
This seems obvious, but I'm guessing that our SK is a daykiller.
I would agree with you here that our daykiller is definitely non-town aligned.
@atlseal, what makes you think that it was a SK that targeted you rather than a scum-daykiller?
Considering that there has been 1 daykill every day, and a decisive lack of nightkills(less than you'd expect in a game this size, at least), the most logical conclusion is that there is a scum daykiller, and that it is the SK.
I agree w/ Axel that this turn of events makes it unlikely that Hawkeye is the SK, but I don't think it makes it any less likely that he is scum anyway.
@atlseal, what makes you think that it was a SK that targeted you rather than a scum-daykiller?
1) Same flavor as all the other kills
2) No other player's were killed by gunshot Day 2
3) If it was a mafia day-killer, they would have killed me day 1 instead of arim (thus, showing it's a neutral that's doing these kills [SK], not the mafia)
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
1) Same flavor as all the other kills
2) No other player's were killed by gunshot Day 2
3) If it was a mafia day-killer, they would have killed me day 1 instead of arim (thus, showing it's a neutral that's doing these kills [SK], not the mafia)
I agree with you on points 1+2 making it a strong likelihood that the daykiller is neutral,
However, I don't know how strong your point 3 towards them being neutral is as at the point in the game where arimnaes met his fate, Post 655, you were leading the votecount and your wagon was picking up momentum. I couldn't see scum nor a neutral wishing to pick off the vote leader at that point.
If you agree that the daykiller is scum, then certainly #3 is valid. The mafia obviously isn't going to kill the leading lynch candidate at the moment.
I agree with you on points 1+2 making it a strong likelihood that the daykiller is neutral,
However, I don't know how strong your point 3 towards them being neutral is as at the point in the game where arimnaes met his fate, Post 655, you were leading the votecount and your wagon was picking up momentum. I couldn't see scum nor a neutral wishing to pick off the vote leader at that point.
Actually, I've been back looking at those posts for the past bit because I'm trying to narrow down on who could be responsable for the day-killings. You actually need to go back and look, because the wagon on me was dying out at that point.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Sorry I haven't been posting much lately, but this game is making me ridiculously confused. I was hoping to avoid having to do a complete reread, but I don't think I have a choice. I'll get on that today, but it might take a while before I have some conclusions.
Well, I don't really see how this changes things things. DYH wasn't high on anyone's list for being scum or town, that I know of, except HE7. Whether or not this makes HE7 more or less likely to be the daykiller is complete WIFOM, I think; any argument you make is just going to be followed with, "Yeah, but maybe that's what the SK wants us to think."
At this point, I would not be unhappy with a loran lynch, which seems to be popular. I'd also be fine with a ZDS lynch, which seems less popular, but he's being way too secretive IMO to be trustworthy. HE7 might also deserve some pressure, at least. He's claimed to know some things based on his role PM that I suspect are being misrepresented somehow; it could be worth exploring that and seeing how scummy it turns out to be.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I'm not sure I can fairly do a critique of the Hvir. wagon given that I was the primary pusher of said wagon. But I'll try my best....
I made my first analysis of Hvir all the way back HERE. This was met with a collective yawn by the town as best I recall. I mean it garnered pretty much no responses from anyone. Of course, I think the topic of the moment was atlseal so a response was not exactly called for.
Stuff happens. Altseal claims. ZDS claims (maybe he already did, I don't recall), LJustus does his thing, and finally Cyan claims.
After Cyan claims, I decide to go back to Hvir HERE. This too is generally met with a collective town yawn, though it's not like I was really pushing it at the time. The town is still far more focused on Cyan. Most don't like the claim, think he's scum, want to test him, etc.
CP does have something to say in post #1033 on Hvir:
Hvir - at least he isn't lurking as much as he did in SC Mafia . 'Course, he was town, then, wasn't he? I think the last time I played a game with him was Battlestar Galactica Mafia, or whatever it was called, forever ago. Can't say I have any kind of read here, but I suspect he's worthy of some pressure at some point.
Someting is better than nothing, but this post is pretty neutral.
The Hvir wagon proper doesn't actually start until after I make my claim in #1359 and the pressure immediately goes off Cyan.
First person to hop on board, Pod, with THIS. He has DYH's proxy and also uses that. Notable for it's complete lack of basis for the vote. In point of fact, Pod has been pretty much riding Xyre the whole time up to this and hasn't mentioned Hvir at all. This post is pretty much all him explaining why he isn't voting for Xyre, but nothing about why he's choosing Hvir. Somewhat suspect.
Grakthis votes for Loran, but notes that Hvir needs to be on his shortlist. Again, no further explanation given.
Then fadeblue votes with THIS brief post. He claims Hvir was his "other" choice (after Cyan presumably). A look back shows that he did, indeed, vote for Hvir back in post #1081. His reasoning at that time was due to Hvir's position on the Cyan wagon (which he acknowledged he also shared), and also just to get him to start talking. It was kind of a weak vote.
Fade's play was kind of shady in as much as he repeatedly said he believed Cyan's claim of T-800, and thought Cyan was town. But after Cyan claimed the multiple lives that apparently made him think Cyan was now the better lynch. So he jumped on that wagon as vote #10, only to jump right off again.
The only other thing he has to say before the end of the day is that he doesn't have a role that needs to pick a spot in Wonderland every night and he doesn't believe Hvir's claim.
altseal has another pretty good looking post in hindsight at #1381:
Has Hvir been acting suspiciously? Yeah, a little but not so much in my mind as to warrent a lynch. This is why I would be up for LJ investigating him if we go with the LJ plan.
. A scum could quite easily be jumping on the Hvir wagon right about now.
CP quips:
Note to self: Hvir is atl's scum buddy.
in #1382. AbbeyG points out that CP is not currently voting for either of these people.
Hvir finally resurfaces and essentially dooms himself by claiming immediately in post #1388. Alice, the travelling townie.
First to disbelieve (not counting Pod, who was already voting) is Vampre in #1395. I can't really fault him for any of this in as much as I felt pretty much the same way myself.
Cyan follows with a vote in #1396. Doesn't believe Hvir wouldn't know so much about his role, or that he would be travelling to places in Wonderland while we are all here in the Matrix.
That point was somewhat different from my own. My issue wasn't so much the fact that he said he could go to places in Wonderland, but that he could supposedly pick anywhere and then something only happened if someone else also happened to pick the exact same location.
First person to NOT vote is Hawkeye7 in #1405. This is not because he believes the claim, but because he has some questions/criticisms. He asks Hvir why he never hinted at all about his ability if it really works the way he says it does. He points out that he himself had earlier asked what people thought about moving to other locations, and that Hvir said nothing.
First true waffler = Loran in #1410. HE SAYS "INTERESTING" He repeats questions other people have already asked. RED FLAG.
Alx2 says he doesn't believe the claim in #1412. Does not vote yet.
Rafaelk chimes in at #1416, and appears non-committal. He doesn't express an opinion on the claim itself, but asks how many votes Hvir. had on him when he made it. Then he spends a bit of time pushing the idea that Cyan and I are a pair of Neutral roles.
DYH agrees the claim is awful and is satisfied with Pod's proxy vote in #1421.
CP joins the wagon at #1426. Doesn't say really anything about it. He's arguing with Cyan and simply remarks that Hvir claimed a role no one believes and is almost certainly going to get lynched. Which is a somewhat odd way of putting it.
Dagger agrees the claim is terrible HERE. Does not vote yet. Is apparently waiting for Atlseal.
Abbey HATES the claim in #1440. Also waiting for atlseal.
I don't quite understand the people waiting for atlseal. He had already claimed JoaT, and did not claim to be able to travel from place to place. Just being from Alice in Wonderland doesn't really mean anything.
Third Waffler, Grakthis, (though he will deny waffling) in #1441. On balance, he appears more suspicious than not, but doesn't say as much, and doesn't vote.
Atlseal comes back in #1446 and votes. Denys any knowledge of Locations in this game.
I do a list of everyone who has responded so far, pointing out that no one has supported Hvir's claim yet.
Loran unwaffles and votes in #1449 (again making a point that has already been made several times).
Xyre responds to my prod about people having or not having a role that uses locations in #1456. Says nothing about Hvir, the claim, voting. Nothing. RED FLAG.
Xyre will add a little more content in post #1468. The fact that no one is supporting Hvir's claim is "somewhat telling". Gee, really?
Hvir votes himself in #1475.
Hawkeye puts the hammer down in post #1476. This appears to have essentially been a simulpost, so the timing is not really suspect. Hawkeye's extremely cryptic remarks about "moving" are somewhat suspect, however, and his belief that Hvir should have picked up on them if he really had the role he claimed. I do not believe that is a reasonable position to take. The heavy role-playing posts in which you ask the town "Shouldn't we get moving or something?" and not of the type which reasonably should have triggered a response from Hvir.
This is way longer than I wanted it to be.
Aren't they always....
Back with something else later.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Hawkeye's reaction to DYH in 2045 is disconcerting, but I don't know what to make of it. Rarely does Hawkeye react in such a way, so I don't know if that's a scum tell or something else. I think he'd make a good neutral, all things considered - it would explain his play clearer than mafia or town.
That being said, I think the first lesson in Az games is don't lynch the neutrals without hearing them out. That's part of the reason why the town lost in Sin City.
Well, now that we can clearly see that DYH wasn't scum, Hawkeye looks scummier than ever.
This seems obvious, but I'm guessing that our SK is a daykiller.
Well, I guess we will now, never know if I was right about DYH not being able to change his avatar to anything other then Agant Smith or his orginal one. I guess we will never know if I was right about him being controlled by another player and having to post what they told him to post. At least until much later in the game, anyway.
I’m pretty sure I am right and that DYH actually tried to post information to hint at this. At least one thing makes more sense to me now.
So far we have seen only cult members able to change their avatars and in those cases only to the Agent Smith Avatar. That is why DYH drew my attention. I think that he was targeted by a player or an entity that is the Agent smith role and that player had control of or a good deal of say in what DYH posted. This is why I tried to draw DYH out by asking him questions and trying to get him in particular, and anyone in general, to try to change their avatar. I did not say to change it to the Agent Smith Avatar and I actually did say to try to change it to something else if possible.
Witness:
Your vested interest in me is disconcerting. You hadn't made one comment about me that I can recall until I mysteriously ended up with this restriction and voted you outright today. Frankly, I think you did this to me and that ability reeks of a mafia cop variation. I bet you're one of those machines underneath! You'll kill me in my sleep won't you?
Vote: Hawkeye7
DYH is a very good player and intelligent reader. He tells me to check Special rule #7 and so I did.
1. You do not talk about anything even vaguely related to Matrix Mafia, with anyone. This includes your girlfriend, dead people, living people, random people on the site, random people off the site, Keanu Reeves, and your imaginary friend(s). You may only talk to people specifically designated in your PM, at the specifically mentioned times, until the game is officially ended. Violation of this rule will result in UGLY NASTY DEATH DEATH DEATH.
2. Editing for grammar and code purposes is allowed up to 3 minutes after you post. Anything else will result in an automatic mod-kill or replacement, depending on the situation. No warnings, besides this one.
3. Posting in large text is fine. Using images is also allowed, so long as forum rules would not prohibit them.
4. Be careful about paraphrasing your role PMs. And whatever you do, don’t quote them.
5. When in doubt, ask me.
6. Players who use the Agent Smith avatar will have their kill and vote-based abilities disabled.
7. You may target players on the replacement list with abilities.
[U]
“6. Players who use the Agent Smith avatar will have their kill and vote-based abilities disabled.”
Does this statement say anyone can change their avatar? - No.
Does this statement say that anyone can use the Agent Smith Avatar? - No.
Does this statement say anyone can change their avatar to anything they want? - No.
This is why I kept asking and even went to the trouble of pointing out that anyone who is brave enough to try this needs to check with Azrael first.
I have yet to hear if anyone has tried.
This would go a long way to answering if the cult is dead or not.
So, why would old Peter be able to change his avatar?
I've already answered this. Read the special rules. #7, specifically.
Quote from hawkeye7 »
DYH, are you quite sure you don’t want to rethink the answers you gave in this post?
Are you the person who actually answered the questions ?
Or are you just the person who posted the answers to those questions?
Can you tell us how to make it stop?
Can you tell us how to get out of here?
If you can’t tell us, is there someone else who knows?
Aside from the first, which is "yes, I'm sure", none of these really even warrant a response. I don't have the slightest clue what you're trying to ask with the next two. Then it would be no, no, and I don't know, but I'm not sure how you would expect anything different, really.
Quote from hawkeye7 »
DYH, can you change your avatar to anything other then the cult member avatar, Agent Smith, or your original one?
I can change my avatar to whatever I darn well please unless you can point me to something that says I can't. It's staying with the current one because I like having my vote on you as I think you're scum.
I'll be happy to change it to my 24 avatar or a picture of a pretty flower or something if anyone else really wants me to - but I'm done dancing for you. I've not been through everything in my life to play the fool for some director.
Quote from hawkeye7 »
All this is probably going to get me killed tonight.
All right, Townies, promise me one thing though, If I die before I reach the summit, you will use me as an alternative source of food.
Ok? Promise.
Uh huh. I'd rather see enough pressure on you today to determine if you even need to make it to night. I could do without your nightmares.
Unless I am completely misreading my PM, the answers of two specific questions I asked Azrael and the wording of special rules. #7, I'm saying you are lying DHY.
I think you can only change your avatar to the Agent smith avatar and your original one. That is why I asked you about it repeatedly. As for your dancing for me, that's an odd phrase to use for me asking your to demonstrate a particular ability and to answer some questions, and the response you have given. Dismissive, evasive, uncooperative.
See this is what I have been trying to get clarified and what will now not be able to be completely for DYH anyway. If DYH could do it and there was no problem with it then there was really no reason for him to not do it. He had already demonstrated that he could use the Agent smith avatar and he claimed that he could change his avatar to anything. Then why didn’t he do it ? I had tried to antagonize people, DYH and Cyan, to get a reaction of wanting to shut me up. Changing the avatar would have completely answered the challenge I made and effectively shut me up. I think that the reason is that DYH could not do it himself and the player that was making him able to use the Agent smith avatar could not do it with any other picture and was caught. I think this is why DYH was killed.
What we need is for someone to try to change their avatar, check with Azrael first if you can. This would answer the question and if I’m right the Agent smith avatar reappearing will be something to be feared.
I am going to wait to see if DYH is willing and able to change his avatar to something new or if anyone else can.
If DYH is unwilling or unable to demonstrate this I will be voting for DYH and post my case for doing so tomorrow.
Why tomorrow and not today?
Because at the time I posted that I had been up over 20 hours, I was tired and I wanted to see if DYH would respond or actually try to do as I had asked. If he had I would have been able to explain the entire thing better by using his results to illustrate where I was right or wrong.
I think we can safely conclude that we have an SK daykiller who has targeted arim, atlseal and DYH.
The good news is that DYH's voluntary use of the smith avatar didn't autocult him or anything like that (unless that only happens once we go to night, /paranoia). That gives us some late game options. ESPECIALLY for those with vote drawbacks.
The interesting news is that DYH has turned up as "townie shrink", possibly a psychologist role. Might be worth seeing if he has breadcrumbed any targets, help us eliminated some people from being the SK.
This does not prove that DYH used the Agent Smith avatar voluntarily.
He did target someone. I’m pretty sure he targeted me, a while ago.
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RELAPSED MAFIA JUNKIE
W – 33, L – 19, Broke Games - 9
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
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Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
I suppose I will take off ZDS due to the Mason thing, though I am somewhat uneasy letting him slide. I really haven't liked a lot of what he's had to say.
That gives me a list of seven people who are probably all worth looking at right now.
I think Loran might have the distinction of having given me the most negative reaction for both situations though.
Vote: Loran
EWP: um, Hawkeye, why don't you "check with Azrael" if this is an issue of concern for you. Why are you asking other people to do it?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
EWP: um, Hawkeye, why don't you "check with Azrael" if this is an issue of concern for you. Why are you asking other people to do it?
The answer to that deals directly with information in my role PM.
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RELAPSED MAFIA JUNKIE
W – 33, L – 19, Broke Games - 9
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
Sorry for the of-late lurking....just got finished with my job. I should be terrificaly active next week (parents are away), followed by a half week of inactivity, and then activity again when im at school. Just a notice.
I think Loran might have the distinction of having given me the most negative reaction for both situations though.
Vote: Loran
?
Okay, so if i understand your points against me are based in the following posts.
Post: 1410 and my 2nd post on hvir.
Post: 918 after LJ's full claim.
918- I don't see what's scummy here, really. I asked LJ a question about his abilities because if the answer was "it doesnt apply to daykills", then we'd HAVE to lynch him on day 1. And i wasnt really sure who to have LJ inspect at the time, which you'll notice by my later references down the line where i pose the comments of "if we lynch LJ, he should investigate atlseal" (i think i mentioned someone else as well, but i dont remember). As i've stated before, i was never really sure what to do with the LJ situation. I can't really tell you anything else.
Posts 1410 and my 2nd post on hvir- Looking over the posts in that area again, you're correct my 1410 does ask a question that has been answered. For some reason i dont remember that having been answered previous my comment. As for me voting Hvir based on others' logic (for example....yours!), that's pretty much true. Hvir's claim was crappy as hell with no one supporting it, as had been mentioned before by others.
As for hvir's actions that led to his actions, well, like i said to ZDS before, i never got the chance i wanted to review H-guy's posts. Should i have probably done that rather than voting him based on others' analyses of them? yeah. But i didn't.
Anyhow, are there other posts i need to explain that i missed axel?
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Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
@HAWKEYE7: Maybe you haven't noticed, but I've had my avatar changed for a while now since you asked. I figured if you were so focused on it that you might actually be checking, but I guess not. (And yes, I specifically asked "permission" from Az to humor you.) But I don't think whatever information you think you have based on your role PM is what you think it is, because if you think that Az is going to 1) require everyone in the game to follow a very arbitrary rule that affects us outside of this forum, and 2) do so without offering any kind of explanation, or even telling people that this requirement exists, you're insane.
@Cyan: clearly, his role has something to do with avatars. I don't understand what doesn't make sense to you.
@Axelrod: yes, let's lynch loran. However, I don't think your analysis expounds on the best reasons to lynch him. For that matter, if I judge by how insufficient your attacks from that analysis are on me, I wouldn't go trusting much of anything I read from that. You make far too many assumptions about what people mean and take a lot of stuff out of context. I haven't gone back to actually fact check most of what you've said about other people, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's more of the same. You're not building, or even maintaining, credibility by making multiple flawed attacks at a whole bunch of people all at once.
I see loran as the default lynch for the day, if other leads don't bring up something more significant. Right now, the only lead I'm seeing is to find out what is going on with HAWKEYE7, so I'd prefer to get the town looking at him before we wagon someone who will almost certainly be lynched once we have nothing better to do.
@ZDS: sure, I could be mistaken. But for the moment, I still think that you're hiding something. Saying, "I'm not hiding anything," is great and all, but not actually informative in any way. What is the point of getting the same role PM as your partner if you're going to get different PMs giving you different role abilities? Why should we trust this? It doesn't add up, and your behavior doesn't help. Oh, and you claimed scum, of course.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I'm inclined to agree with ZDS, I really think that CP is grasping at straws here. It seems like he just wants to attack everyone that he can, even though alot of his attacks are, at best, weak. Plus, he has been incredibly dodgy about his multi-vote, which doesn't make me feel good about it.
I actually agree with a lot of what CP's saying. Loran probably is the default lynch of the day if nothing better shows up.
ZDS has been acting scummy for a while now. I keep writing up posts pointing out something he's done only to delete them when I remember he's a mason...
...but one with abilities different from his partner.
Between Fade and CP there's more than enough information to figure out how CP's multi-vote works.
Hawkeye's acting dodgey and cryptic, and I'd vote him on principal if he didn't always act like that. Some of the things he said to Hvir and DYH don't sit well with me, though. Insisting that Hvir should have picked up on the location hints that HE7 dropped doesn't seem correct. And where he got the idea that DYH was being controlled is beyond me. Blood Moon mafia, maybe?
Aw, what the heck. I'm willing to see where this goes. Vote HAWKEYE7.
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Kind of. Your assumption that a scum Cyan must have "balls of steel" to say he was in favour of the LJ lynch given that the inspection would be used on him, for example, demonstrates bias. If Cyan had argued against, he would have been accused of being afraid of the investigation SO FAST and absolutely either lynched or investigated, after all. The way he played it was the only way a good scum could have played it, IMO. Of course, a townie would have played it the same way. But it doesn't make it less likely that Cyan is non-town.
At any rate, for now this argument remains a sidetrack as I'm pretty happy that Cyan is most likely neutral, not mafia, and thus is not actually the play now or for the foreseeable future.
Oh, and unvote.
Also, Cyan as mafia doesn't seem right considering everything that's come out. I don't think it's impossible that he'd be neutral, but I think if Axelrod is town (and based on the flavor, he probably is), then Cyan makes more sense as town. Unless I'm missing something here.
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Or DYH has changed his avatar back...
You just reminded me... What do the spoons do, really? Something just doesn't add up about them.
If given to scum they're +2 to lynch: We've already shown that if someone is going to be lynched, it's quite easy to get the extra 1/2 votes needed. The only way I can see this ruining a win is in the lategame and creating an unlynchable scum. However, this doesn't even push it to a loss... just a draw.
If given to town, their code can't be changed: Now, it may just be me, but we haven't had any flavor signifying code changes. If fade hadn't mentioned it, I would have believed it would referred to the cult, but it's not even that.
Note, I don't think you're mafia because of being roleblocked Night 2. However, that doesn't discount you from being some type of neutral...
Now, I'm off to look into something concerning our SK...
Pod (intentional lurking, and deserves to have his posts analysed, so i guess I'll do that), Alx (vampire comment... it's not enough to build a case on by itself, but so many people make cute comments as scum on day 1 for their own amusement. I still recall picking up epeeguy's SK comments in like post 10 of RottK and him turning out to be SK!). loran- I have been becoming convinced by the cases on him and by the tone of his replies, and intend to make a larger contribution to this one shortly. Possibly cp, there might be other explanations for his behaviour (his interactions with fade- who by his claim should not possibly have inside information on cp- have been confusing) but the attacks on atlseal and the attempt to act like he wasn't involved in the town's lynches of non-atlseal people were bad.
I also expect a couple of neutrals around the place. Cyan, obv. DYH and Hawkeye are both very confusing, generally unhelpful and quite possibly in this category too.
The people I am most sure are town besides myself are the masons and Grakthis, with Spoon (play) and Jeffe (play gives me a sincere vibe even if he did make a couple of Captain Obvious statements, and claim of being able to confirm himself) on the next line. I also lean very town on atlseal at the moment, due to proving the investigation and his disappearance scene yesterday all but confirming him as the cheshire cat.
Too fishy?
You’re kidding right?:rolleyes:
Well, anyone else brave enough to try this? Switching your avatar, that is.
Thing is, you don’t even have to try to change it to Agent Smith.
Just try to change it to anything other then your original avatar.
Remember that you will have to check with Azrael before you do it.
DYH, can you change your avatar to anything other then the cult member avatar, Agent Smith, or your original one?
Hmmm.
Keep talking DYH, just keep talking.
While you’re at it, why don’t you answer my questions?
Both the ones from my prior post that you ignored and the new ones.
I think your answers, or lack of them, will be very interesting.
All this is probably going to get me killed tonight.
All right, Townies, promise me one thing though, If I die before I reach the summit, you will use me as an alternative source of food.
Ok? Promise.:halo:
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Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
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Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
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Plus, the whole 'All this is probably going to get me killed tonight' might as well be the #1 scum cliche in the game of mafia.
I thought about that. In the end, it takes away a bit of the drawback... it makes me the worst cop ever, except that the ability isn't worth wasting on such a poor strategy that can backfire so badly.
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so you're voting for me because you think my a lot of my posts sound antagonistic and that equates to non-townie to you, is that right? This and what you are calling the #1 scum cliche, is the basis of you vote?
Care to comment on way or the other on the content of anything I have said, instead of just the tone? How about posting a case to support your vote?
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Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
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So, did you forget those reasons when you posted your convincing and decisive vote for me?
You did not mention any of them or even that you had been suspicous of me in any way earlier in the game. In reading this post I think it is very fair to say that you appear to be voting based on two extremely weak Feeling based reasons that lack any demonstrative factual value.
Care to perhaps post a real case maybe?
Oh, and would you be so kind as to address the points I have, appearently in too Mean a way, made or to try to see if you can change your avatar?
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
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Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
You mean these?
I've already answered this. Read the special rules. #7, specifically.
Aside from the first, which is "yes, I'm sure", none of these really even warrant a response. I don't have the slightest clue what you're trying to ask with the next two. Then it would be no, no, and I don't know, but I'm not sure how you would expect anything different, really.
I can change my avatar to whatever I darn well please unless you can point me to something that says I can't. It's staying with the current one because I like having my vote on you as I think you're scum.
I'll be happy to change it to my 24 avatar or a picture of a pretty flower or something if anyone else really wants me to - but I'm done dancing for you. I've not been through everything in my life to play the fool for some director.
Uh huh. I'd rather see enough pressure on you today to determine if you even need to make it to night. I could do without your nightmares.
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I voted for you yesterday, also. So it wasn't really a 'decisive' vote, just a continuation.
Such over-defensiveness is a big tell under normal circumstances. In this case, it's an even bigger one.
Also, you completely blew off all of the points that I made yesterday. Why take the time and effort to repost them..just so you can do it again? You can look it up, I'm sure. And anyone that has read the thread knows that I made them, I fail to see what is accomplished by going out of my way to reference my own posts. You're really grasping at straws, here.
And why do I need to address points that you made to someone else? As for changing my avatar..I don't even have one, and no, I'm not going to just randomly use the Agent Smith one just to see what happens. Your insistence upon this is both silly and suspect. And I love how you try to brush off the obvious hostility in some of your posts as calling it 'apparently too mean'..charming tactic, that.
I think you can only change your avatar to the Agent smith avatar and your original one. That is why I asked you about it repeatedly. As for your dancing for me, that's an odd phrase to use for me asking your to demonstrate a particular ability and to answer some questions, and the response you have given. Dismissive, evasive, uncooperative.
Cyan, I find it exceedingly ironic and humorous that you are upset about what you have repeatedly called hostile posting on my part. Considering your standard style of posting. I also find it interesting that it was DYH that was the first person to bring up anything like this criticism when he made a comment about a post I made that I had even labeled as being a sarcastic response in the post.
I am going to wait to see if DYH is willing and able to change his avatar to something new or if anyone else can.
If DYH is unwilling or unable to demonstrate this I will be voting for DYH and post my case for doing so tomorrow.
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Good speculation requires that you assume balance. Of course, I could be mistaken as to what you mean, but then I don't understand your argument.
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But the debate seems to be moving forward in bullet time. Your scattered contacts with the outside only confirm that the problem is getting worse.
DYH, of all those assembled on the top story, seems to be most conscious of this reality. His paranoia peaks as the day creeps on.
He begins walking from one person to the next, tugging at their skin, removing their glasses and peering deep into their eyeballs. When he reaches the shimmering outline of the man with red sneakers, forlornly and silently attempting to clean the indelible streaks of mud from his beloved shoes, and his hand passes straight through, he cracks.
With a wail of despair, he rushes from the room, his arms and legs a blur of motion. You each make a motion to follow and retrieve him, when the blast of the gun rings out from a storefront, passing through one temple and out the next. He sways to the left, his stomach catching the rail, then flips over headfirst. When he hits the ground, the marble chess-board pattern on the lowest level gains its first small crack.
A hasty investigation of the storefront fails to reveal the shooter, and his body, upon investigation, reveals no signs of weaponry or malign intent.
With 19 alive, it's 10 to lynch.
This seems obvious, but I'm guessing that our SK is a daykiller.
@ Cyan: ya think? It's an Az game, what did you expect?
Of course, his RP'ing wasn't exactly solid...Az, what that a mod-kill, or did our AzWoLG decide to fire today? if it's the latter, why didn't he shoot yesterday? (Yes I know atlseal faded out, but that wasn't exactly a shot, and he came back at the start of the day)
Has anyone noticed that even though Dwight is dead, he seems suprisingly active...I is so confused...meaning no cat macro for this post...
Vote Count of Ultimate Destiny
2 Alx-Cyan, ZDS
2 Hawkeye7- Charm_Master, Cyan
3 Loran16- Abbeygargoyle, grakthis, J-Effe IV
1 AbbeyGargoyle - Alx2
1 ZDS - CP
Not Voting: Everyone else.
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Vote Count of Ultimate Destiny
1 Alx- ZDS
2 Hawkeye7- Charm_Master, Cyan
3 Loran16- Abbeygargoyle, grakthis, J-Effe IV
1 AbbeyGargoyle - Alx2
1 ZDS - CP
Not Voting: Everyone else
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RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
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Why tomorrow and not today?
Also, Vote: loran16. I think I am happier pursuing him out of those three I stated. I would pick him over Alx at the moment and the point on untargetability is noted as well.
EWP:
Considering there was a gunblast, I would say it's a murder done in cold blood.
That reminds me...
Notice the gunshot? Could it be that Atlseal was the SK's target yesterday?
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Something wacky was going on with ATL yesterday.
I hinted at this once already yesterday, but just to confirm it today, I was unable to target him during the day yesterday.
(obv, I am not the daykiller.)
It was not a mod-kill.
and Az, if the day ends before I get back, can you do something else besides the convulsions and seizure? plz?
1 Alx- ZDS
2 Hawkeye7- Charm_Master, Cyan
4 Loran16- Abbeygargoyle, grakthis, J-Effe IV, Dagger
1 AbbeyGargoyle - Alx2
1 ZDS - CP
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This, of course, does not mean that Hawkeye is not scum. But less likely to be that day-killer perhaps.
Wait, are you claiming to have an additional day ability as well (if so, I'm not asking what it is), or is the -2 "disease" cure you mentioned done during the day?
@Everyone: For those of you that are confused, I can pretty much guarentee I was targetted by the SK yesterday unless someone else tried to kill me during the day by shooting.
The good news is that DYH's voluntary use of the smith avatar didn't autocult him or anything like that (unless that only happens once we go to night, /paranoia). That gives us some late game options. ESPECIALLY for those with vote drawbacks.
The interesting news is that DYH has turned up as "townie shrink", possibly a psychologist role. Might be worth seeing if he has breadcrumbed any targets, help us eliminated some people from being the SK.
Yes. I claimed that yesterday....
It's getting hard to keep up with the amount of info being tossed around, and I hate contributing to it... but I thought yesterday I made it clear that I attempted to target you but my action failed.
Let me find the post....
and then after you vanished...
I attempted to target you with a day ability, but I was told that you could not be found anywhere.
But the baffling thing to me was that I got that response PM BEFORE the scene was posted with you vanishing.
That could just be how long it took the mod to write up the posts though.
I would agree with you here that our daykiller is definitely non-town aligned.
@atlseal, what makes you think that it was a SK that targeted you rather than a scum-daykiller?
I agree w/ Axel that this turn of events makes it unlikely that Hawkeye is the SK, but I don't think it makes it any less likely that he is scum anyway.
1) Same flavor as all the other kills
2) No other player's were killed by gunshot Day 2
3) If it was a mafia day-killer, they would have killed me day 1 instead of arim (thus, showing it's a neutral that's doing these kills [SK], not the mafia)
I agree with you on points 1+2 making it a strong likelihood that the daykiller is neutral,
However, I don't know how strong your point 3 towards them being neutral is as at the point in the game where arimnaes met his fate, Post 655, you were leading the votecount and your wagon was picking up momentum. I couldn't see scum nor a neutral wishing to pick off the vote leader at that point.
Maybe we should see if there is some correlation as to how many posts into each day we were when each kill happened..I'll take a look.
Actually, I've been back looking at those posts for the past bit because I'm trying to narrow down on who could be responsable for the day-killings. You actually need to go back and look, because the wagon on me was dying out at that point.
At this point, I would not be unhappy with a loran lynch, which seems to be popular. I'd also be fine with a ZDS lynch, which seems less popular, but he's being way too secretive IMO to be trustworthy. HE7 might also deserve some pressure, at least. He's claimed to know some things based on his role PM that I suspect are being misrepresented somehow; it could be worth exploring that and seeing how scummy it turns out to be.
On that final note, unvote, vote HAWKEYE7.
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I made my first analysis of Hvir all the way back HERE. This was met with a collective yawn by the town as best I recall. I mean it garnered pretty much no responses from anyone. Of course, I think the topic of the moment was atlseal so a response was not exactly called for.
Stuff happens. Altseal claims. ZDS claims (maybe he already did, I don't recall), LJustus does his thing, and finally Cyan claims.
After Cyan claims, I decide to go back to Hvir HERE. This too is generally met with a collective town yawn, though it's not like I was really pushing it at the time. The town is still far more focused on Cyan. Most don't like the claim, think he's scum, want to test him, etc.
CP does have something to say in post #1033 on Hvir: Someting is better than nothing, but this post is pretty neutral.
The Hvir wagon proper doesn't actually start until after I make my claim in #1359 and the pressure immediately goes off Cyan.
First person to hop on board, Pod, with THIS. He has DYH's proxy and also uses that. Notable for it's complete lack of basis for the vote. In point of fact, Pod has been pretty much riding Xyre the whole time up to this and hasn't mentioned Hvir at all. This post is pretty much all him explaining why he isn't voting for Xyre, but nothing about why he's choosing Hvir. Somewhat suspect.
Grakthis votes for Loran, but notes that Hvir needs to be on his shortlist. Again, no further explanation given.
Then fadeblue votes with THIS brief post. He claims Hvir was his "other" choice (after Cyan presumably). A look back shows that he did, indeed, vote for Hvir back in post #1081. His reasoning at that time was due to Hvir's position on the Cyan wagon (which he acknowledged he also shared), and also just to get him to start talking. It was kind of a weak vote.
Fade's play was kind of shady in as much as he repeatedly said he believed Cyan's claim of T-800, and thought Cyan was town. But after Cyan claimed the multiple lives that apparently made him think Cyan was now the better lynch. So he jumped on that wagon as vote #10, only to jump right off again.
The only other thing he has to say before the end of the day is that he doesn't have a role that needs to pick a spot in Wonderland every night and he doesn't believe Hvir's claim.
I make a further point against Hvir in THIS post.
altseal has another pretty good looking post in hindsight at #1381: . A scum could quite easily be jumping on the Hvir wagon right about now.
CP quips: in #1382. AbbeyG points out that CP is not currently voting for either of these people.
Hvir finally resurfaces and essentially dooms himself by claiming immediately in post #1388. Alice, the travelling townie.
First to disbelieve (not counting Pod, who was already voting) is Vampre in #1395. I can't really fault him for any of this in as much as I felt pretty much the same way myself.
Cyan follows with a vote in #1396. Doesn't believe Hvir wouldn't know so much about his role, or that he would be travelling to places in Wonderland while we are all here in the Matrix.
That point was somewhat different from my own. My issue wasn't so much the fact that he said he could go to places in Wonderland, but that he could supposedly pick anywhere and then something only happened if someone else also happened to pick the exact same location.
First person to NOT vote is Hawkeye7 in #1405. This is not because he believes the claim, but because he has some questions/criticisms. He asks Hvir why he never hinted at all about his ability if it really works the way he says it does. He points out that he himself had earlier asked what people thought about moving to other locations, and that Hvir said nothing.
First true waffler = Loran in #1410. HE SAYS "INTERESTING" He repeats questions other people have already asked. RED FLAG.
Alx2 says he doesn't believe the claim in #1412. Does not vote yet.
Rafaelk chimes in at #1416, and appears non-committal. He doesn't express an opinion on the claim itself, but asks how many votes Hvir. had on him when he made it. Then he spends a bit of time pushing the idea that Cyan and I are a pair of Neutral roles.
DYH agrees the claim is awful and is satisfied with Pod's proxy vote in #1421.
CP joins the wagon at #1426. Doesn't say really anything about it. He's arguing with Cyan and simply remarks that Hvir claimed a role no one believes and is almost certainly going to get lynched. Which is a somewhat odd way of putting it.
Current Vote Count:
Spoon wants to hear if Hawkeye has anything else to say in #1430, but otherwise is ready to vote Hvir.
Next vote is from J-Effe IV HERE. That's actually not a bad post from him. More townish than a lot of his previous ones.
Second waffler, ZDS, HERE.
Dagger agrees the claim is terrible HERE. Does not vote yet. Is apparently waiting for Atlseal.
Abbey HATES the claim in #1440. Also waiting for atlseal.
I don't quite understand the people waiting for atlseal. He had already claimed JoaT, and did not claim to be able to travel from place to place. Just being from Alice in Wonderland doesn't really mean anything.
Third Waffler, Grakthis, (though he will deny waffling) in #1441. On balance, he appears more suspicious than not, but doesn't say as much, and doesn't vote.
Atlseal comes back in #1446 and votes. Denys any knowledge of Locations in this game.
I do a list of everyone who has responded so far, pointing out that no one has supported Hvir's claim yet.
Alx2 votes in #1448.
Loran unwaffles and votes in #1449 (again making a point that has already been made several times).
Xyre responds to my prod about people having or not having a role that uses locations in #1456. Says nothing about Hvir, the claim, voting. Nothing. RED FLAG.
Xyre will add a little more content in post #1468. The fact that no one is supporting Hvir's claim is "somewhat telling". Gee, really?
Hvir votes himself in #1475.
Hawkeye puts the hammer down in post #1476. This appears to have essentially been a simulpost, so the timing is not really suspect. Hawkeye's extremely cryptic remarks about "moving" are somewhat suspect, however, and his belief that Hvir should have picked up on them if he really had the role he claimed. I do not believe that is a reasonable position to take. The heavy role-playing posts in which you ask the town "Shouldn't we get moving or something?" and not of the type which reasonably should have triggered a response from Hvir.
This is way longer than I wanted it to be.
Aren't they always....
Back with something else later.
That being said, I think the first lesson in Az games is don't lynch the neutrals without hearing them out. That's part of the reason why the town lost in Sin City.
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Well, I guess we will now, never know if I was right about DYH not being able to change his avatar to anything other then Agant Smith or his orginal one. I guess we will never know if I was right about him being controlled by another player and having to post what they told him to post. At least until much later in the game, anyway.
I’m pretty sure I am right and that DYH actually tried to post information to hint at this. At least one thing makes more sense to me now.
So far we have seen only cult members able to change their avatars and in those cases only to the Agent Smith Avatar. That is why DYH drew my attention. I think that he was targeted by a player or an entity that is the Agent smith role and that player had control of or a good deal of say in what DYH posted. This is why I tried to draw DYH out by asking him questions and trying to get him in particular, and anyone in general, to try to change their avatar. I did not say to change it to the Agent Smith Avatar and I actually did say to try to change it to something else if possible.
Witness:
DYH is a very good player and intelligent reader. He tells me to check Special rule #7 and so I did.
“6. Players who use the Agent Smith avatar will have their kill and vote-based abilities disabled.”
Does this statement say anyone can change their avatar? - No.
Does this statement say that anyone can use the Agent Smith Avatar? - No.
Does this statement say anyone can change their avatar to anything they want? - No.
This is why I kept asking and even went to the trouble of pointing out that anyone who is brave enough to try this needs to check with Azrael first.
I have yet to hear if anyone has tried.
This would go a long way to answering if the cult is dead or not.
See this is what I have been trying to get clarified and what will now not be able to be completely for DYH anyway. If DYH could do it and there was no problem with it then there was really no reason for him to not do it. He had already demonstrated that he could use the Agent smith avatar and he claimed that he could change his avatar to anything. Then why didn’t he do it ? I had tried to antagonize people, DYH and Cyan, to get a reaction of wanting to shut me up. Changing the avatar would have completely answered the challenge I made and effectively shut me up. I think that the reason is that DYH could not do it himself and the player that was making him able to use the Agent smith avatar could not do it with any other picture and was caught. I think this is why DYH was killed.
What we need is for someone to try to change their avatar, check with Azrael first if you can. This would answer the question and if I’m right the Agent smith avatar reappearing will be something to be feared.
Because at the time I posted that I had been up over 20 hours, I was tired and I wanted to see if DYH would respond or actually try to do as I had asked. If he had I would have been able to explain the entire thing better by using his results to illustrate where I was right or wrong.
This does not prove that DYH used the Agent Smith avatar voluntarily.
He did target someone. I’m pretty sure he targeted me, a while ago.
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After LJ's question, the four people who picked Cyan for investigation although voting someone else:
--AbbeyGargoyle, Alx2, Carrion Pigeons, Sutherlands
--Of those, probably got the worst vibe off of CP.
A bunch of people never answered the question, but nothing can really be inferred from that given the way everything played out.
Then, what didn't I like after LJ self-voted:
--Xyre, Pod, Grakthis.
--Worst vibe off of Xyre.
Positive reactions from: Sutherlands, Abbey, Cyan
Then, my least favorite reactions to LJ's full claim:
--Loran, ZDS, Hawkeye7, Xyre, fadeblue, J-Effe IV, Abbey, Carrion Pigeons, Pod
--Probably liked Loran's the absolute least.
Positive reactions from: Spoon, Cyan, Alx2, Dagger, atlseal,
Finally, reactions to the Hvir wagon.
Not so good:
--fadeblue, Pod, Hawkeye7, Loran, Raf, CP, ZDS, Xyre, Hawkeye7.
At least somewhat favorable: atlseal, Vampyr, J-Effe IV.
My two lists for what I didn't like after LJ's full claim, and the Hvir's wagon are extremely similar. There are eight people on both lists:
--fadeblue, Pod, Hawkeye7, Loran, CP, ZDS, Xyre, Hawkeye7.
I suppose I will take off ZDS due to the Mason thing, though I am somewhat uneasy letting him slide. I really haven't liked a lot of what he's had to say.
That gives me a list of seven people who are probably all worth looking at right now.
I think Loran might have the distinction of having given me the most negative reaction for both situations though.
Vote: Loran
EWP: um, Hawkeye, why don't you "check with Azrael" if this is an issue of concern for you. Why are you asking other people to do it?
The answer to that deals directly with information in my role PM.
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Okay, so if i understand your points against me are based in the following posts.
Post: 1410 and my 2nd post on hvir.
Post: 918 after LJ's full claim.
918- I don't see what's scummy here, really. I asked LJ a question about his abilities because if the answer was "it doesnt apply to daykills", then we'd HAVE to lynch him on day 1. And i wasnt really sure who to have LJ inspect at the time, which you'll notice by my later references down the line where i pose the comments of "if we lynch LJ, he should investigate atlseal" (i think i mentioned someone else as well, but i dont remember). As i've stated before, i was never really sure what to do with the LJ situation. I can't really tell you anything else.
Posts 1410 and my 2nd post on hvir- Looking over the posts in that area again, you're correct my 1410 does ask a question that has been answered. For some reason i dont remember that having been answered previous my comment. As for me voting Hvir based on others' logic (for example....yours!), that's pretty much true. Hvir's claim was crappy as hell with no one supporting it, as had been mentioned before by others.
As for hvir's actions that led to his actions, well, like i said to ZDS before, i never got the chance i wanted to review H-guy's posts. Should i have probably done that rather than voting him based on others' analyses of them? yeah. But i didn't.
Anyhow, are there other posts i need to explain that i missed axel?
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Of course it does. That answer really makes no sense as far as the question Axel asked anyway.
Nor does it indicated if HE7 can or can't ask the question. Just because it deals with stuff in his PM does that mean it's off limits to discussion?
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@Cyan: clearly, his role has something to do with avatars. I don't understand what doesn't make sense to you.
@Axelrod: yes, let's lynch loran. However, I don't think your analysis expounds on the best reasons to lynch him. For that matter, if I judge by how insufficient your attacks from that analysis are on me, I wouldn't go trusting much of anything I read from that. You make far too many assumptions about what people mean and take a lot of stuff out of context. I haven't gone back to actually fact check most of what you've said about other people, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's more of the same. You're not building, or even maintaining, credibility by making multiple flawed attacks at a whole bunch of people all at once.
I see loran as the default lynch for the day, if other leads don't bring up something more significant. Right now, the only lead I'm seeing is to find out what is going on with HAWKEYE7, so I'd prefer to get the town looking at him before we wagon someone who will almost certainly be lynched once we have nothing better to do.
@ZDS: sure, I could be mistaken. But for the moment, I still think that you're hiding something. Saying, "I'm not hiding anything," is great and all, but not actually informative in any way. What is the point of getting the same role PM as your partner if you're going to get different PMs giving you different role abilities? Why should we trust this? It doesn't add up, and your behavior doesn't help. Oh, and you claimed scum, of course.
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ZDS has been acting scummy for a while now. I keep writing up posts pointing out something he's done only to delete them when I remember he's a mason...
...but one with abilities different from his partner.
Between Fade and CP there's more than enough information to figure out how CP's multi-vote works.
Hawkeye's acting dodgey and cryptic, and I'd vote him on principal if he didn't always act like that. Some of the things he said to Hvir and DYH don't sit well with me, though. Insisting that Hvir should have picked up on the location hints that HE7 dropped doesn't seem correct. And where he got the idea that DYH was being controlled is beyond me. Blood Moon mafia, maybe?
Aw, what the heck. I'm willing to see where this goes. Vote HAWKEYE7.