Totally out of topic : if you think you spotted a lie, but you firmly believe the lying person is town, and you understand the reasons for lying... What are you supposed to do ? Point out the lie ? Or just wait and see ?
Totally out of topic : if you think you spotted a lie, but you firmly believe the lying person is town, and you understand the reasons for lying... What are you supposed to do ? Point out the lie ? Or just wait and see ?
Imho, wait and see what developes from the possible lie.
There is always the possibility that you have misinturpered what was said, or not understand completely what was said because of not having complete knowledge of what went into the statement. Even if you are correct in the conclusion you have come to, it maybe that be revealing it before it (the lie) has a chance to cause whatever effect the lie was posted to create, will be lost. Usually, you will know when the right time is because you will see how posting what you suspect will either support a case or play, or you will see how you were actually wrong about what you thought was a lie.
It may turn out that it becomes clear later that the player you thought to be a townie actually is not, in which case you will be able to point out the lie and possibly catch a scum player.
This is not a hard and fast rule, but one that usually is true most of the time. As with most tactics in this game you have to use your best judgement and try to maximize the gain of information and potential for the town to catch scum.
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Totally out of topic : if you think you spotted a lie, but you firmly believe the lying person is town, and you understand the reasons for lying... What are you supposed to do ? Point out the lie ? Or just wait and see ?
Wait and see. As long as you continue to believe the person is town and that the lie is not hurting the town, wait and see.
The thing I dislike most about what Xyre is claiming, is that he apparently got an ambiguous role PM which did not make it clear what his ability did. Then Azrael was supposedly evasive about answering Xyre's questions about said ambigious role PM, then Xyre supposedly makes this assumption about what his ability does and feels confident enough about his assumptions to target me with this (supposedly) benificial ability.
When I claimed, Xyre's response was cryptic. "Hey, looks like your claim makes my role useful. Hope you like Ice Cream." or something to that effect. He's broadcasting to the entire player base that he's going to target me. Why do that? Then, the next morning, he again pipes up with the ambiguous "How did you like the Ice Cream" or something like that. Again with the broadcasting.
This is the kind of thing I can see a scum doing, to try and score townie points. By misrepresenting his ability, he can say if challenged (as he now has done) "Well, I was never sure what it really did."
I am very inclined to agree with you on this read of Xyre's play. He set up a claim that seems very townie. But when it comes to the confirmable bit, he left himself out an "out". An "out" which first required a townie to claim an active ability before Xyre has to use the "out".
In particular, the contrast between Xyre's confidence in the ability with the broadcasting and then Xyre immediately backing down when called is interesting. There is/was a very arguable case that Axelrod is at least a neutral. In that case, why did Xyre immediately assume that Axelrod must be town and that the ability must not work as he had thought?
OTOH, we have a watcher result that explicitly confirms Xyre hiding a spoon in Axelrod's "store" (which still I do not understand, btw) which is very strongly in Xyre's favour, since it confirms at the least that he's telling the truth about spoons and his targetting choices. It lets him off being the guy who gave cake to Grak, for example.
Quote from Axelrod »
On the other hand, Hvir apparently had a completely useless role that did nothing (or it did something, but Hvir was unaware). But Hvir at least seemed to think he knew what it did.
I really doubt that Hvir's role did nothing.
Quote from Axelrod »
I really don't know at this moment. I'm not really liking it. But if Xyre is to be believed, he was role-blocked last night by cake, which would lend credibility if true. The cake RBer (assuming he actually exists) cannot be town after targeting Grakthis and Xyre in succession.
Maybe. Of course, if Xyre and the cake RBer are on the same side, Xyre could be lying. But we do know that Xyre isn't the cake RBer himself unless he's also in cahoots with Grak and they're making it all up, and that's getting way too tinfoil hat for me to buy. (Or maybe the cake RBer just doesn't like Grakthis, or does a doc/roleblock combo job- didn't someone say they tried to target Grak but he was "missing"?).
As such, while Xyre's rapid backturn looks really bad, because he's at least confirmed the Spoon Boy part (unless ZDS is scum, which would really screw Xyre up) and because of the RB evidence, I'm willing to let him slide for now.
Yes, I got this, thanks.
My point is, "main" does not mean "only", and you should have reacted to Raf's post.
I fail to see the reason why......
That's what I'm asking !
What was your motive for being so bent on explaining this comment was a joke ?
Okay, so first someone, i believe cyan, asked me about it accusingly for some reason. I explained it was a joke. Then Rafk mentions that the comment could be serious and he doesn't understand why it was a joke, and i commented.
Then i had you make a comment on my intent not being clear.
Now i have you questioning it in a pbpa.
Thus the explanations. Tell me, what would be the scum reason you're implying for me calling it a joke? I don't get it.
The one where you say you've seen townies doing similar things ?
The reasoning is good, to be honest. Thing is, it in itself is not a scum-tell, as you yourself aknowledged in some way.
Was there a third reason for this vote ?
I've seen townies do similar things, and that's led to disaster. It's a behavior that is strongly unhelpful, and often harmful to the town. It should be discouraged if the person is town, don't ya think?
And yeah, (forgot i didnt mention this in 301, but it's rather obvious), these loaded pbpas are quite often used by scum to get the town to wagon someone for incorrect evidence. It's amazing how convincing even slanted and fake evidence is when in pbpa form.
And then of course, his logic comes back defending it's all crappy as hell, which i believe is worth a vote, since this logic only benefits scum.
I don't get what you mean by third reason. Again, wtf are you implying.
Lol.
Should I have shut up ?
My answer to Axel was at satisfactory as it could. To an accusation of "OMG he has inside knowledge !", what can one answer other than "no, I don't" ? You think I should have quoted my role-pm to show Sutherlands is not mentionned in it ?
Your answer to axel, was Sutherlands-like, full of "You're reasoning is crap so i'm going to ignore you", and of course including that attack on me. Certainly not satisfactory.
You could have gone further.
Though this is turning into a playstyle argument.
Yeah, its a playstyle argument, in that i don't see the point in countless bickering over one piece of behavior. IMO, it was better of me to just watch fade and see if he would behave scummy in other ways as well.
Are you justifying mimicing as a normal behaviour ?
....Mimicking? are you really really serious? You mean when one person posts points why someone else is scummy, a townie can't use those points to explain why he's voting that person? Really? So we each need individual reasons to attack another person?
This is such a slanted view its hysterical.
On atl : Your reasoning is/was that, since he is scum (in your opinion), he is lying. Right ?
This is like saying atlseal is scum, therefore he's scum.
Or, I'm right, therefore I'm right.
It's a tautology. You can't base anything on that.
What? Atlseal was as i have said, the Most scummy player d1. His day 2 coming out implicating another player as scum only furthered that thought of mine....remember atl was almost lynched d1, and was certainly a likely fallback on day 2. This way he could've survived till day 3 and shot a town role down with him. Yeah, 1/1 trades are bad for mafia, but when the mafia player believes he's going down, i can easily imagine him trying to take another person with him.
Incidentally, you're seeming using the "loran is scummy, therefore my heavily slanted pointed of views on his actions are correct" logic. Not me here.
@Raf : I answered already about the Hvir thing : if Loran read Hvir's posts, his opinion of him would have been more concrete.
Rafk, i'm confused by how he came up with that interpretation from that post myself, but he is in fact right...i didnt have time to do the review of hvir that i'd wanted.
My PBPA is heavily slanted, because I am heavily slanted. I interpreted Loran's posts the way I wrote it.
If anyone's being tricked into believing Loran is scummier than he is, it's me.
So you agree my reasoning on grak and on loaded pbpas is good, and then you proceed to do one yourself? Dude, that doesn't make sense. As i've said before.....
Quote from me »
Which is craplogic at its finest. Heck, even if you were a confirmed townie, we wouldnt want you using loaded language.
Even the most confirmed of townies can be locked into believing a person is scum, and i know its happened before where a townie is SOOO sure that his target is scum, that he makes a flawed pbpa without realizing it. And if that townie was confirmed, the town might follow along with the pbpa leading to a mistake. A loaded pbpa isnt a pbpa. It's not analysis. It's an opinion injected into a form where it looks like intellegent analysis of another's posts. Which is not helpful for the town.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
@ my choice of Axelrod: I didn't really have a better choice. Sure, I could choose one of the confirmed players (like ZeDorkSlipeur) but then the ability wouldn't be worth as much as if it was used on a power role like Axel's (this was when I was under the impression it made the player untargetable). If Axel was neutral, that would mean that Cyan was probably also neutral, and overall, I couldn't really conceive of a rationale for that. Besides, Axel's claim isn't consistent with an anti-town role (neutral or scum), so I figured that it would all work out well.
@ my actions with my role: I was trying to use the role primarily to draw off some of the suspicion on myself - that's why I needed to use it during that night to ensure I wouldn't get lynched without a way to confirm my role. I breadcrumbed it so heavily merely so I could then say "look, here's why I'm town" during the next day. Another reason why I chose Axelrod - I knew that the odds of him dying were next to none.
As for CP, his willingness to not reveal his extra votes puzzles me and makes me think there's more to his role than meets the eye.
So, I propose this: CP, vote for me twice. That would be the best way to confirm yourself (because I don't think there's going to be a wagon on me at this moment, and if anyone tried speed-lynching me, they'd probably be scum).
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Do a pbpa on a player you found very scummy beforehand. Try to make it not loaded. I'll be amazed if you manage to do it.
That's not the point. The point is that you're making clear that the reasons you found him to be scummy were poor reasons; at least, many of them. You need to learn, 1) to differentiate between a good argument and a poor one, and 2) to realize that the point of a PBPA is to lessen the amount of crap required to sort through to make a decent judgment call about a player, not to increase it.
In other words, if want to get loran lynched, 1) don't give him points that are easy to defend against, and 2) don't give him lots of extraneous stuff that he can use to make the issue seem more complicated than it is.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Sorryguy, despite having only recently arrived, soon falls into yet another seizure.
Except this time, rather than leaving another corpse behind, his body simply vanishes. Slowly, with difficulty, a new embodiment flickers into being.
Sorryguy has been replaced by Charm_Master3125. Then, Sorryguy is replaced by Chamber.
Also, be advised that my access is likely to be spotty or non-existent over the next five days, as I'll be obliged to pay for internet for the duration.
Sorryguy, despite having only recently arrived, soon falls into yet another seizure.
Except this time, rather than leaving another corpse behind, his body simply vanishes. Slowly, with difficulty, a new embodiment flickers into being.
Sorryguy has been replaced by Charm_Master3125. Then, Sorryguy is replaced by Chamber.
Also, be advised that my access is likely to be spotty or non-existent over the next five days, as I'll be obliged to pay for internet for the duration.
This role is like a meat grinder for the replacement list. I also don't believe anyone but Suth has posted out of that role. Or did I miss someone?
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In Limbo
1. Hunted_Charlie
2. Sutherlands
3. Chamber
So there are only five replacements left? Can we get a comment of some sort from chamber or whoever is speaking for that role at this point? Any idea what happens after the replacement list runs dry? And does anyone actually know what In Limbo means? Did I miss that somewhere? Because it seems very odd that HC and chamber are there.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
It seems like the whole replacement list is playing their own little game out there in cyberspace.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
okay...I've (very fortunately for me) been paying close attn to this game, so I'm jumping right in with this.
1) The vote counting Role (which I picked up on after suth's 4-5th post) was hinted at all the way back in SC...
Quote from Azrael »
Next time, I'm gonna make a role that has to post an accurate Vote count every 100 posts
And now I'm stuck with it...joy...
2) atlseal still has yet to post his thingy...and he's still not completely clear. handing us the CL is great, but it's not mafia. he could easily be a mafia cop and seeing agent smith, CL isn't the big a stretch FOS atlseal.
I also need to retroactive FOS Loran and Grakthis for making fun of my false claim in CG. had I not claimed masons with scum, I probably would have pulled it off...beh
3) I've been doing a lot of thinking about some of the stuff...and I've realized what the Matrix is. The matrix is formality. The matrix is Order. The matrix is Government. And like any good government, you have a healthy dose of doublespeak.
look at Arim's role: "Townie Detention Specialist" Honestly, wtf is a "detention specialist"? I racked my brain, and while posting in PR on WIFOM, I realized the answer. Those of you who didn't read Sin City, might want to check it out; at least D1. for those of you who can't stand floods of smileys and walls of all caps text, here's a spoiler:
I BET YOU CAN FIGURE IT OUT!
DADDY LIKES THIS ROLE!1!
HE USED IT LAST TIME TOO:cool:
*ahem* I'm pretty sure arim as "Townie Detention Specialist" was akin to our dear friend DYH; he was a town RB.
Yes, I know the avvy isn't helping my case at all, just wondered if anyone would notice it, apparently no one did. I'll take it off at 10:00 pm est
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If atlseal was a mafia cop, all he would see would be 'CL', he wouldn't get the rolename too. Seriously, atlseal is fine. I'm really not feeling the suspicion against Loran either.
the FOS against Loran and grak were retroactive. If I was in the game (or had a burning desire to be the first mafia player to be modkilled before entering the game) I would have yelled at them then. I'm here now, so I'm yelling at them now. it's as close to random voting as one can get on D3...
and if you get a cop result on a cult leader, esp. in matrix mafia, what's the first thing you think of?
...
thought so. he may have gotten lucky, and I'm not about to write him off yet, with there being so many "auto-confirmed" roles flying around.
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still
1 Alx-Cyan
1 Hawkeye7-DYH
5 Loran16-ZDS, Abbeygargoyle, grakthis, J-Effe IV, CP
1 Carrion Pidgeons - Spoon
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Sorryguy, despite having only recently arrived, soon falls into yet another seizure.
Except this time, rather than leaving another corpse behind, his body simply vanishes. Slowly, with difficulty, a new embodiment flickers into being.
Sorryguy has been replaced by Charm_Master3125. Then, Sorryguy is replaced by Chamber.
Also, be advised that my access is likely to be spotty or non-existent over the next five days, as I'll be obliged to pay for internet for the duration.
Something else I thought about. SorryGuy was previously #19. CharmMaster boots him out of game and into limbo. And then Chamber boots SorryGuy out of limbo and out of game permanently? SG must have went idle for too long.
Speaking of which, Az, you might want to knock MD off the top spot of the replacement list. He's been suspended for 3 months, so he has his own personal limbo.
2) atlseal still has yet to post his thingy...and he's still not completely clear. handing us the CL is great, but it's not mafia. he could easily be a mafia cop and seeing agent smith, CL isn't the big a stretch FOS atlseal.
I also need to retroactive FOS Loran and Grakthis for making fun of my false claim in CG. had I not claimed masons with scum, I probably would have pulled it off...beh
Fos'ing people for other games? What's with that. How about sticking with just this game? As for atlseal, it's likely that the only way the town will be sure of him is when he dies.
3) I've been doing a lot of thinking about some of the stuff...and I've realized what the Matrix is. The matrix is formality. The matrix is Order. The matrix is Government. And like any good government, you have a healthy dose of doublespeak.
look at Arim's role: "Townie Detention Specialist" Honestly, wtf is a "detention specialist"? I racked my brain, and while posting in PR on WIFOM, I realized the answer. Those of you who didn't read Sin City, might want to check it out; at least D1. for those of you who can't stand floods of smileys and walls of all caps text, here's a spoiler:
I BET YOU CAN FIGURE IT OUT!
DADDY LIKES THIS ROLE!1!
HE USED IT LAST TIME TOO:cool:
*ahem* I'm pretty sure arim as "Townie Detention Specialist" was akin to our dear friend DYH; he was a town RB.
Sounds reasonable except for the worrying about the dead guy thing that can't help, hurt or otherwise affect the game. At least that we know of at this time. *waits for the next strange ability to pop up.
Yes, I know the avvy isn't helping my case at all, just wondered if anyone would notice it, apparently no one did. I'll take it off at 10:00 pm est
You might want to keep the avatar on for more than half an hour if you want to get responses from people. Not everyone is going to be able to check in during that small window of opportunity and see it. And then when they log in and see your usual avatar the first reaction is going to be "WTF?!"
And Unvote: WoLG/trying to escape. That apparently didn't work.
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How were we to notice you had a Smith avatar until you posted?
Incidentally, I had long ago come to that conclusion about arimnaes' ability, but wanted to sit on it in case someone tried to claim being a townie RB later. There wasn't really any burning need to publicise that, was there?
Also, while we have you here, can you shed any light on the schedule for people replacing through your role and whether there's any difference between the various people inhabiting it? Or can we treat you as being the same person as Sutherlands for all intents and purposes?
I wondered if people who are in multiple mafia games would have it catch thier eye...I noticed it on fade as I was reading CG...
@using the avvy: eh, moot point now. It was only to see if people in the game would comment on it, as I didn't expect to come in so quickly. they didn't so I'm not gonna do anything more with it.
and seeing as this role has taken a lot of heat, I'm gonna spill it. The revolving role is the Oracle, townie shapeshifter.
No, my effect does not activate by discarding a card from your hand.
What the role entails...well, it's kind of hard to explain. As you probably know, I have to post a vote count every post, and at the end of the day, I "phase out" so to speak. flavor is whoever's messing with the code likes watching me bounce around from body to body...
One thing that you might not know, is if I get every vote count right, I get to pick my replacement from someone on the replacement list, OR someone "in limbo". otherwise, it's merely whoever is on top of the replacement list. That choice probably gone given I missed the last one, but if I get back, I might be able to trade out for a better, more experienced analyst...
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I wondered if people who are in multiple mafia games would have it catch thier eye...I noticed it on fade as I was reading CG...
@using the avvy: eh, moot point now. It was only to see if people in the game would comment on it, as I didn't expect to come in so quickly. they didn't so I'm not gonna do anything more with it.
and seeing as this role has taken a lot of heat, I'm gonna spill it. The revolving role is the Oracle, townie shapeshifter.
No, my effect does not activate by discarding a card from your hand.
What the role entails...well, it's kind of hard to explain. As you probably know, I have to post a vote count every post, and at the end of the day, I "phase out" so to speak. flavor is whoever's messing with the code likes watching me bounce around from body to body...
One thing that you might not know, is if I get every vote count right, I get to pick my replacement from someone on the replacement list, OR someone "in limbo". otherwise, it's merely whoever is on top of the replacement list. That choice probably gone given I missed the last one, but if I get back, I might be able to trade out for a better, more experienced analyst...
*BZCRCK* Could we have an employee to Aisle 48? We have an information vomit that needs to be cleaned up. Employee to Aisle 48 to clean up the vomit. Thank you and have a nice day.
Why did you bother claiming? What heat were you under? Regardless of Raf going Jacques Cousteau on you, that really wasn't pressure. You really didn't need to do that.
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I deny that I put any pressure whatsoever. Jacques Cousteau indeed.
We needed to know if the people rotating through the role are effectively the same and can be treated as one person, or whethere there are differences. I didn't ask him for his name or other abilities or even mention his restriction at all- he did that all by himself.
Under the circumstances, I would still like confirmation that everyone going through the role is identical and that there's no possibility of a mafia replacement getting control of the role.
I deny that I put any pressure whatsoever. Jacques Cousteau indeed.
We needed to know if the people rotating through the role are effectively the same and can be treated as one person, or whethere there are differences. I didn't ask him for his name or other abilities or even mention his restriction at all- he did that all by himself.
Under the circumstances, I would still like confirmation that everyone going through the role is identical and that there's no possibility of a mafia replacement getting control of the role.
I will agree that you put no pressure on him at all.
But I still think you're fishing unecessarily. No one has bother to look at this role since day 1 when Suth was posting a reasonable amount. I just find it a bit odd that you're asking about it suddenly JUST because we have someone who is/able to talk about it. Is there not other things, more pressing things to look at rather than this role that has done virtually nothing so far besides be an idle curiosity and a minor comedic device?
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eh, if all my vote counts are accurate, I can pick someone on the replacement or limbo list to take over the next day. if I mess up, which I apparently have, it goes to whoever is on top of the replacement list. so unless a scum gets in limbo, the role is staying a town role.
As far as I can tell, the person who's posting is the only difference. suth probably got the same role PM at the start of the game that I did a few hours ago, and he probably laughed/swore as much as I did, too. Why? becasue it's the matrix. The matrix is continuity, the matrix is static. The matrix is control. If the Matrix played magic, I'd bet my life that it would play Mono-blue control; with 4 teferi, Slaver-Ruins lock, pickleslock, and everygoodhardcounterin [card=swift silence]the game.
and the reason I claimed...I haven't taken any heat, but the role has. remember you semi-wagoned Suth for forgetting his vote counts? I wanted to put the role out there, mainly so that didn't happen again with me.
Vote count that I'm NOT forgetting this time!
same as last time.
1 Alx-Cyan
1 Hawkeye7-DYH
5 Loran16-ZDS, Abbeygargoyle, grakthis, J-Effe IV, CP
1 Carrion Pidgeons - Spoon
for those of you whose scroll wheels are broken.
EWP:...in retrospect, from now on, I'm not having spoon as the bottom person on the voting list.:-/
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Incidentally....i happen to think rafk's idea of a replacing-in scum is certainly possible.
Think about it.....replacements are targetable. The list seemed to have been reordered (as noted by vamp) at one point. and a player who was replaced (or put in limbo to be fair) was replaced again?
It's interesting....it almost means taht we have to look at each player with suth's role as a new player entirely, which makes it harder to analyze properly.
@ZDS- You're right, usually a pbpa is not easy to make objective, since most times you dont do a pbpa of a player you dont suspect already. But while it can never be done perfectly, its's certainly doable. As opposed to your pbpa, really.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Abbeygargoyle is a player in the game. He appears as #11 in the playerlist. He is thus a legal target for voting, I think.
Your confusion, Loran, is understandable. You may have not noticed his presence in the game (as I haven't, until recently), because he was doing such a great job blending in and playing the invisible man. Almost all his posts (all 60+ of them) are a textbook case of not annoying anyone, not espousing any opinions he may be held liable for later, etc.
Whenever there's a chance to make a "safe" post (eg. someone asks a clarification question), Abbeygargoyle is right there with a factually correct, even if not particularly insightful, answer. Thus, his post count is kept reasonably high, allowing him to sidestep all issues of actual scumhunting.
CP: I was wondering if you could prove your multivote without my "support." Or are you confirming that I'm right about how your role works? If so, you should be able to prove your multivote at the moment.
Incidentally....i happen to think rafk's idea of a replacing-in scum is certainly possible.
Think about it.....replacements are targetable. The list seemed to have been reordered (as noted by vamp) at one point. and a player who was replaced (or put in limbo to be fair) was replaced again?
It's interesting....it almost means taht we have to look at each player with suth's role as a new player entirely, which makes it harder to analyze properly.
I don't know about the rest of you, but this just reeks of inside information to me.
CP: I was wondering if you could prove your multivote without my "support." Or are you confirming that I'm right about how your role works? If so, you should be able to prove your multivote at the moment.
If you like.
Vote fadeblue, vote fadeblue. I'm a little disappointed that you didn't cooperate a little, though. Do you see much reason to make my role so obvious?
Incidentally, if anyone starts off tomorrow with the Smith avatar, I am going to be totally convinced that you are still cult.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I'm just trying to alert the town to the fact that you're not a true multivoter. So the real question is: what's your reason for covering that up?
You're the one who has been trying to be secretive about it, despite openly demonstrating it on D1 for no apparent reason - which strikes me as a possible attempt to gain townie points as a supposed multivoter. I guess what matters more now is: just how many can you get? Because to me, that spells the difference between whether or not your ability can possibly be attached to a scum.
Though given the way voting seems to be such a central theme in this game, and the possible use of the Smith avatar, I imagine that your multivoting ability could be on scum no matter what.
First question: Why did you just post a vote with NOTHING to back it up? I don't get it? You waited 13 minutes (and a loran response which you quoted) to actually explain it? The modus operandi here leaves something to be desired, to say the very least.
Abbeygargoyle is a player in the game. He appears as #11 in the playerlist. He is thus a legal target for voting, I think.
Your confusion, Loran, is understandable. You may have not noticed his presence in the game (as I haven't, until recently), because he was doing such a great job blending in and playing the invisible man. Almost all his posts (all 60+ of them) are a textbook case of not annoying anyone, not espousing any opinions he may be held liable for later, etc.
loran was probably voicing his astonishment much like me, as to your modus operandi here. If you had done some research, you would find there was little chance loran had forgot me as he has acknowledged me posting as recently as Post #1818
Whenever there's a chance to make a "safe" post (eg. someone asks a clarification question), Abbeygargoyle is right there with a factually correct, even if not particularly insightful, answer. Thus, his post count is kept reasonably high, allowing him to sidestep all issues of actual scumhunting.
First off, I love how you are floating around in vague generalities here just like you did in the last portion that I quoted. Backing up accusations with links, etc. is svg tech. If the only leg your argument is standing on (as I read it right now) is that I have not said nor done anything to set off anyone's scumdar, then it is a pretty weak reason for a vote.
Just letting everyone know that I'm going to be camping in North Carolina for the next couple of days. Don't have enough time to read over ZDS/loran's exchange before I leave this morning. I will "answer" the, I think it was Spoon's, question about my disappearance yesterday:
Now is not the time for me to tell everyone what seemed to have happened. I'm on the lookout for "something" today. I'll let you know what I find. However, there are some important dates that I want to share with you:
I also need to retroactive FOS Loran and Grakthis for making fun of my false claim in CG. had I not claimed masons with scum, I probably would have pulled it off...beh
What are you talking about?
I have no idea what role I made fun of, but if I did, it was clearly deserved.
Stop trying to be cute. It's day 3. We are well past the DATBF phase.
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There are a LOT of things going on that I need to comment on, and I will be getting to them throughout the day, but for now, my vote is staying on Loran. I've seen nothing in my brief read of the exchanges over the weekend to make me change my mind about him.
I also need to re-read day 1 now that we have a dead cult-leader and some dead townie.
But we REALLY REALLY REALLY need a dead mafia member ASAP.
Alx's accusation of AG "lurking with posts" is interesting, since I got nailed with it a short time ago. I may have to re-read his posts to see if that's true.
Just letting everyone know that I'm going to be camping in North Carolina for the next couple of days. Don't have enough time to read over ZDS/loran's exchange before I leave this morning. I will "answer" the, I think it was Spoon's, question about my disappearance yesterday:
I'm in another game where atlseal is playing, so this is just a heads-up thingy. nothing about the game here.
Now is not the time for me to tell everyone what seemed to have happened. I'm on the lookout for "something" today. I'll let you know what I find. However, there are some important dates that I want to share with you:
The following dates have ushured in major changes
1/4/96
3/3/09
1/1/03
1/2/23
1/2/03
6/1/11
7/2/04
4/5/39
3/5/80
This part is interesting...I'm gonna check the wiki/history channel to see if any of these dates correlate...
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
I'm just trying to alert the town to the fact that you're not a true multivoter. So the real question is: what's your reason for covering that up?
You're the one who has been trying to be secretive about it, despite openly demonstrating it on D1 for no apparent reason - which strikes me as a possible attempt to gain townie points as a supposed multivoter. I guess what matters more now is: just how many can you get? Because to me, that spells the difference between whether or not your ability can possibly be attached to a scum.
Though given the way voting seems to be such a central theme in this game, and the possible use of the Smith avatar, I imagine that your multivoting ability could be on scum no matter what.
Oh come on. I'm a multivoter in every sense that matters, including in terms of endgame balance. I don't see how the extra complexity changes that. It isn't a matter of being secretive about it, it's matter of being able to use it without vomiting info onto the thread. Why should that be a problem?
I'll grant that the Smith avatar changes things somewhat, but we went over my behavior with Axel on Day 1, and the answers aren't any different now than they were then.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
First off, I love how you are floating around in vague generalities here just like you did in the last portion that I quoted. Backing up accusations with links, etc. is svg tech. If the only leg your argument is standing on (as I read it right now) is that I have not said nor done anything to set off anyone's scumdar, then it is a pretty weak reason for a vote.
I don't agree with alx's reasoning on his vote on you. However, i must bring up:
After a re-read last night, I believe that a vote: loran16 is in order. His play has been jumpy and defensive, two things he usually does as scum. Besides, LAL, etc.
Because clearly you used links to back this up.....not to mention the fact it's accusing me of two things that arent scum tells, but you are claiming to be scum tells on me personally.....this comment and vote is worse than Alx's imo, and not just cuz you're voting me. Just seems a little hypocritical of you, hmm?.
Also, @ZDS, if you could stop with the "more people need to notice this, do this" garbage, and argue why you think said person is scum instead it'd be much nicer. I disagree with alx's vote reasoning, but i dont see it as scummy.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Because clearly you used links to back this up.....not to mention the fact it's accusing me of two things that arent scum tells, but you are claiming to be scum tells on me personally.....this comment and vote is worse than Alx's imo, and not just cuz you're voting me. Just seems a little hypocritical of you, hmm?.
It's because I know I am a townie so I can do that.
On a more serious note, I was culling from my notes for examples when I found out work would be relatively easy for the next day or so. So I changed my mind and am trying to do what will be perceived as a more "neutral" PBPA of you as you do not like how "singleminded" ZDS has been of you and perceive bias there.
Contrary to my last post and upon further review, Alx2's vote doesn't look that bad. He's got a point about most of AG's posts, and ZDS's thought that he was ignoring the matters at hand isn't that valid since the matters at hand were largely settling down. Only Charm's info-vomit hadn't been heavily addressed when Alx put down his vote.
But to explain further, searching through (a) random player(s) posts until you find enough "not pro-town" elements to build a somewhat believable case is classical scum-play.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Yeah, well, sorry. It wasn't, in fact, all that clear.
Considering the Terminator himself and John Connor are walking around openly at this point, is there a reason for you to not come out with your own role-name, and a (brief) explanation of what you are doing here? Can this be done without tipping your hand as far as any ability which you may or may not possess (beyond the not being able to vote thing)?
Meh, someone will figure it out eventually anyhow.
Peter Silberman.
I'm a broken man struggling to cope with the current state of affairs.
I've seen so much violence... so many deaths... I just can't take this.
Since Alx mentionned "all of [AG's] posts", it means he must have taken some time to carefully read them, and before that some time to "notice" AG. Or, did he ?
You're just jealous that I didn't comment on your case against Loran. So, here goes: The "case" does a better job of showing ZDS' emotions that it does determining Loran's alignment.
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Imho, wait and see what developes from the possible lie.
There is always the possibility that you have misinturpered what was said, or not understand completely what was said because of not having complete knowledge of what went into the statement. Even if you are correct in the conclusion you have come to, it maybe that be revealing it before it (the lie) has a chance to cause whatever effect the lie was posted to create, will be lost. Usually, you will know when the right time is because you will see how posting what you suspect will either support a case or play, or you will see how you were actually wrong about what you thought was a lie.
It may turn out that it becomes clear later that the player you thought to be a townie actually is not, in which case you will be able to point out the lie and possibly catch a scum player.
This is not a hard and fast rule, but one that usually is true most of the time. As with most tactics in this game you have to use your best judgement and try to maximize the gain of information and potential for the town to catch scum.
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Just to clarify- Dagger, is that right? You only mentioned targeting Cyan N1.
Wait and see. As long as you continue to believe the person is town and that the lie is not hurting the town, wait and see.
Are you saying you need fade to do something to let you multivote?
I have more thoughts on that situation if such is your claim, but I'd rather not give any clues before the people involved say their piece.
I am very inclined to agree with you on this read of Xyre's play. He set up a claim that seems very townie. But when it comes to the confirmable bit, he left himself out an "out". An "out" which first required a townie to claim an active ability before Xyre has to use the "out".
In particular, the contrast between Xyre's confidence in the ability with the broadcasting and then Xyre immediately backing down when called is interesting. There is/was a very arguable case that Axelrod is at least a neutral. In that case, why did Xyre immediately assume that Axelrod must be town and that the ability must not work as he had thought?
OTOH, we have a watcher result that explicitly confirms Xyre hiding a spoon in Axelrod's "store" (which still I do not understand, btw) which is very strongly in Xyre's favour, since it confirms at the least that he's telling the truth about spoons and his targetting choices. It lets him off being the guy who gave cake to Grak, for example.
I really doubt that Hvir's role did nothing.
Maybe. Of course, if Xyre and the cake RBer are on the same side, Xyre could be lying. But we do know that Xyre isn't the cake RBer himself unless he's also in cahoots with Grak and they're making it all up, and that's getting way too tinfoil hat for me to buy. (Or maybe the cake RBer just doesn't like Grakthis, or does a doc/roleblock combo job- didn't someone say they tried to target Grak but he was "missing"?).
As such, while Xyre's rapid backturn looks really bad, because he's at least confirmed the Spoon Boy part (unless ZDS is scum, which would really screw Xyre up) and because of the RB evidence, I'm willing to let him slide for now.
Am I missing something here?
What happened to Cyan on Night 2 was a direct continuation of Night 1.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
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Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
I fail to see the reason why......
Okay, so first someone, i believe cyan, asked me about it accusingly for some reason. I explained it was a joke. Then Rafk mentions that the comment could be serious and he doesn't understand why it was a joke, and i commented.
Then i had you make a comment on my intent not being clear.
Now i have you questioning it in a pbpa.
Thus the explanations. Tell me, what would be the scum reason you're implying for me calling it a joke? I don't get it.
I've seen townies do similar things, and that's led to disaster. It's a behavior that is strongly unhelpful, and often harmful to the town. It should be discouraged if the person is town, don't ya think?
And yeah, (forgot i didnt mention this in 301, but it's rather obvious), these loaded pbpas are quite often used by scum to get the town to wagon someone for incorrect evidence. It's amazing how convincing even slanted and fake evidence is when in pbpa form.
And then of course, his logic comes back defending it's all crappy as hell, which i believe is worth a vote, since this logic only benefits scum.
I don't get what you mean by third reason. Again, wtf are you implying.
Your answer to axel, was Sutherlands-like, full of "You're reasoning is crap so i'm going to ignore you", and of course including that attack on me. Certainly not satisfactory.
Yeah, its a playstyle argument, in that i don't see the point in countless bickering over one piece of behavior. IMO, it was better of me to just watch fade and see if he would behave scummy in other ways as well.
....Mimicking? are you really really serious? You mean when one person posts points why someone else is scummy, a townie can't use those points to explain why he's voting that person? Really? So we each need individual reasons to attack another person?
This is such a slanted view its hysterical.
What? Atlseal was as i have said, the Most scummy player d1. His day 2 coming out implicating another player as scum only furthered that thought of mine....remember atl was almost lynched d1, and was certainly a likely fallback on day 2. This way he could've survived till day 3 and shot a town role down with him. Yeah, 1/1 trades are bad for mafia, but when the mafia player believes he's going down, i can easily imagine him trying to take another person with him.
Incidentally, you're seeming using the "loran is scummy, therefore my heavily slanted pointed of views on his actions are correct" logic. Not me here.
Rafk, i'm confused by how he came up with that interpretation from that post myself, but he is in fact right...i didnt have time to do the review of hvir that i'd wanted.
So you agree my reasoning on grak and on loaded pbpas is good, and then you proceed to do one yourself? Dude, that doesn't make sense. As i've said before.....
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
@ my actions with my role: I was trying to use the role primarily to draw off some of the suspicion on myself - that's why I needed to use it during that night to ensure I wouldn't get lynched without a way to confirm my role. I breadcrumbed it so heavily merely so I could then say "look, here's why I'm town" during the next day. Another reason why I chose Axelrod - I knew that the odds of him dying were next to none.
As for CP, his willingness to not reveal his extra votes puzzles me and makes me think there's more to his role than meets the eye.
So, I propose this: CP, vote for me twice. That would be the best way to confirm yourself (because I don't think there's going to be a wagon on me at this moment, and if anyone tried speed-lynching me, they'd probably be scum).
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I'll wait for fade, thanks.
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That's not the point. The point is that you're making clear that the reasons you found him to be scummy were poor reasons; at least, many of them. You need to learn, 1) to differentiate between a good argument and a poor one, and 2) to realize that the point of a PBPA is to lessen the amount of crap required to sort through to make a decent judgment call about a player, not to increase it.
In other words, if want to get loran lynched, 1) don't give him points that are easy to defend against, and 2) don't give him lots of extraneous stuff that he can use to make the issue seem more complicated than it is.
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Except this time, rather than leaving another corpse behind, his body simply vanishes. Slowly, with difficulty, a new embodiment flickers into being.
Sorryguy has been replaced by Charm_Master3125. Then, Sorryguy is replaced by Chamber.
Also, be advised that my access is likely to be spotty or non-existent over the next five days, as I'll be obliged to pay for internet for the duration.
This role is like a meat grinder for the replacement list. I also don't believe anyone but Suth has posted out of that role. Or did I miss someone?
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
So there are only five replacements left? Can we get a comment of some sort from chamber or whoever is speaking for that role at this point? Any idea what happens after the replacement list runs dry? And does anyone actually know what In Limbo means? Did I miss that somewhere? Because it seems very odd that HC and chamber are there.
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Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
1) The vote counting Role (which I picked up on after suth's 4-5th post) was hinted at all the way back in SC...
And now I'm stuck with it...joy...
2) atlseal still has yet to post his thingy...and he's still not completely clear. handing us the CL is great, but it's not mafia. he could easily be a mafia cop and seeing agent smith, CL isn't the big a stretch FOS atlseal.
I also need to retroactive FOS Loran and Grakthis for making fun of my false claim in CG. had I not claimed masons with scum, I probably would have pulled it off...beh
3) I've been doing a lot of thinking about some of the stuff...and I've realized what the Matrix is. The matrix is formality. The matrix is Order. The matrix is Government. And like any good government, you have a healthy dose of doublespeak.
look at Arim's role: "Townie Detention Specialist" Honestly, wtf is a "detention specialist"? I racked my brain, and while posting in PR on WIFOM, I realized the answer. Those of you who didn't read Sin City, might want to check it out; at least D1. for those of you who can't stand floods of smileys and walls of all caps text, here's a spoiler:
DADDY LIKES THIS ROLE!1!
HE USED IT LAST TIME TOO:cool:
*ahem* I'm pretty sure arim as "Townie Detention Specialist" was akin to our dear friend DYH; he was a town RB.
Vote Count (Or reasonable facsimilie thereof)
1 Alx-Cyan
1 Hawkeye7-DYH
5 Loran16-ZDS, Abbeygargoyle, grakthis, J-Effe IV, CP
1 Carrion Pidgeons - Spoon
Yes, I know the avvy isn't helping my case at all, just wondered if anyone would notice it, apparently no one did. I'll take it off at 10:00 pm est
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RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
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Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
and if you get a cop result on a cult leader, esp. in matrix mafia, what's the first thing you think of?
...
thought so. he may have gotten lucky, and I'm not about to write him off yet, with there being so many "auto-confirmed" roles flying around.
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Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Vote Count: scroll up.
still
1 Alx-Cyan
1 Hawkeye7-DYH
5 Loran16-ZDS, Abbeygargoyle, grakthis, J-Effe IV, CP
1 Carrion Pidgeons - Spoon
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Something else I thought about. SorryGuy was previously #19. CharmMaster boots him out of game and into limbo. And then Chamber boots SorryGuy out of limbo and out of game permanently? SG must have went idle for too long.
Speaking of which, Az, you might want to knock MD off the top spot of the replacement list. He's been suspended for 3 months, so he has his own personal limbo.
I don't think anyone disputed this fact.
Fos'ing people for other games? What's with that. How about sticking with just this game? As for atlseal, it's likely that the only way the town will be sure of him is when he dies.
Sounds reasonable except for the worrying about the dead guy thing that can't help, hurt or otherwise affect the game. At least that we know of at this time. *waits for the next strange ability to pop up.
You might want to keep the avatar on for more than half an hour if you want to get responses from people. Not everyone is going to be able to check in during that small window of opportunity and see it. And then when they log in and see your usual avatar the first reaction is going to be "WTF?!"
And Unvote: WoLG/trying to escape. That apparently didn't work.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Incidentally, I had long ago come to that conclusion about arimnaes' ability, but wanted to sit on it in case someone tried to claim being a townie RB later. There wasn't really any burning need to publicise that, was there?
Also, while we have you here, can you shed any light on the schedule for people replacing through your role and whether there's any difference between the various people inhabiting it? Or can we treat you as being the same person as Sutherlands for all intents and purposes?
@using the avvy: eh, moot point now. It was only to see if people in the game would comment on it, as I didn't expect to come in so quickly. they didn't so I'm not gonna do anything more with it.
and seeing as this role has taken a lot of heat, I'm gonna spill it. The revolving role is the Oracle, townie shapeshifter.
No, my effect does not activate by discarding a card from your hand.
What the role entails...well, it's kind of hard to explain. As you probably know, I have to post a vote count every post, and at the end of the day, I "phase out" so to speak. flavor is whoever's messing with the code likes watching me bounce around from body to body...
One thing that you might not know, is if I get every vote count right, I get to pick my replacement from someone on the replacement list, OR someone "in limbo". otherwise, it's merely whoever is on top of the replacement list. That choice probably gone given I missed the last one, but if I get back, I might be able to trade out for a better, more experienced analyst...
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
1 Alx-Cyan
1 Hawkeye7-DYH
5 Loran16-ZDS, Abbeygargoyle, grakthis, J-Effe IV, CP
1 Carrion Pidgeons - Spoon
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
*BZCRCK* Could we have an employee to Aisle 48? We have an information vomit that needs to be cleaned up. Employee to Aisle 48 to clean up the vomit. Thank you and have a nice day.
Why did you bother claiming? What heat were you under? Regardless of Raf going Jacques Cousteau on you, that really wasn't pressure. You really didn't need to do that.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
We needed to know if the people rotating through the role are effectively the same and can be treated as one person, or whethere there are differences. I didn't ask him for his name or other abilities or even mention his restriction at all- he did that all by himself.
Under the circumstances, I would still like confirmation that everyone going through the role is identical and that there's no possibility of a mafia replacement getting control of the role.
I will agree that you put no pressure on him at all.
But I still think you're fishing unecessarily. No one has bother to look at this role since day 1 when Suth was posting a reasonable amount. I just find it a bit odd that you're asking about it suddenly JUST because we have someone who is/able to talk about it. Is there not other things, more pressing things to look at rather than this role that has done virtually nothing so far besides be an idle curiosity and a minor comedic device?
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
As far as I can tell, the person who's posting is the only difference. suth probably got the same role PM at the start of the game that I did a few hours ago, and he probably laughed/swore as much as I did, too. Why? becasue it's the matrix. The matrix is continuity, the matrix is static. The matrix is control. If the Matrix played magic, I'd bet my life that it would play Mono-blue control; with 4 teferi, Slaver-Ruins lock, pickles lock, and every good hard counter in [card=swift silence]the game.
and the reason I claimed...I haven't taken any heat, but the role has. remember you semi-wagoned Suth for forgetting his vote counts? I wanted to put the role out there, mainly so that didn't happen again with me.
Vote count that I'm NOT forgetting this time!
same as last time.
1 Alx-Cyan
1 Hawkeye7-DYH
5 Loran16-ZDS, Abbeygargoyle, grakthis, J-Effe IV, CP
1 Carrion Pidgeons - Spoon
for those of you whose scroll wheels are broken.
EWP:...in retrospect, from now on, I'm not having spoon as the bottom person on the voting list.:-/
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
who?what?where?why?HuH?
Wazzit? Me confused.
Incidentally....i happen to think rafk's idea of a replacing-in scum is certainly possible.
Think about it.....replacements are targetable. The list seemed to have been reordered (as noted by vamp) at one point. and a player who was replaced (or put in limbo to be fair) was replaced again?
It's interesting....it almost means taht we have to look at each player with suth's role as a new player entirely, which makes it harder to analyze properly.
@ZDS- You're right, usually a pbpa is not easy to make objective, since most times you dont do a pbpa of a player you dont suspect already. But while it can never be done perfectly, its's certainly doable. As opposed to your pbpa, really.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Abbeygargoyle is a player in the game. He appears as #11 in the playerlist. He is thus a legal target for voting, I think.
Your confusion, Loran, is understandable. You may have not noticed his presence in the game (as I haven't, until recently), because he was doing such a great job blending in and playing the invisible man. Almost all his posts (all 60+ of them) are a textbook case of not annoying anyone, not espousing any opinions he may be held liable for later, etc.
Whenever there's a chance to make a "safe" post (eg. someone asks a clarification question), Abbeygargoyle is right there with a factually correct, even if not particularly insightful, answer. Thus, his post count is kept reasonably high, allowing him to sidestep all issues of actual scumhunting.
I don't know about the rest of you, but this just reeks of inside information to me.
If you like.
Vote fadeblue, vote fadeblue. I'm a little disappointed that you didn't cooperate a little, though. Do you see much reason to make my role so obvious?
Incidentally, if anyone starts off tomorrow with the Smith avatar, I am going to be totally convinced that you are still cult.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
You're the one who has been trying to be secretive about it, despite openly demonstrating it on D1 for no apparent reason - which strikes me as a possible attempt to gain townie points as a supposed multivoter. I guess what matters more now is: just how many can you get? Because to me, that spells the difference between whether or not your ability can possibly be attached to a scum.
Though given the way voting seems to be such a central theme in this game, and the possible use of the Smith avatar, I imagine that your multivoting ability could be on scum no matter what.
loran was probably voicing his astonishment much like me, as to your modus operandi here. If you had done some research, you would find there was little chance loran had forgot me as he has acknowledged me posting as recently as Post #1818
First off, I love how you are floating around in vague generalities here just like you did in the last portion that I quoted. Backing up accusations with links, etc. is svg tech. If the only leg your argument is standing on (as I read it right now) is that I have not said nor done anything to set off anyone's scumdar, then it is a pretty weak reason for a vote.
Now is not the time for me to tell everyone what seemed to have happened. I'm on the lookout for "something" today. I'll let you know what I find. However, there are some important dates that I want to share with you:
3/3/09
1/1/03
1/2/23
1/2/03
6/1/11
7/2/04
4/5/39
3/5/80
What are you talking about?
I have no idea what role I made fun of, but if I did, it was clearly deserved.
Stop trying to be cute. It's day 3. We are well past the DATBF phase.
General Comment
There are a LOT of things going on that I need to comment on, and I will be getting to them throughout the day, but for now, my vote is staying on Loran. I've seen nothing in my brief read of the exchanges over the weekend to make me change my mind about him.
I also need to re-read day 1 now that we have a dead cult-leader and some dead townie.
But we REALLY REALLY REALLY need a dead mafia member ASAP.
So far, the only people seem to be getting it are fadeblue, and spoon?
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
But this is what caught my eye.
I'm in another game where atlseal is playing, so this is just a heads-up thingy. nothing about the game here.
This part is interesting...I'm gonna check the wiki/history channel to see if any of these dates correlate...
1 Alx-Cyan, ZDS
1 Hawkeye7-DYH
4 Loran16- Abbeygargoyle, grakthis, J-Effe IV, CP
1 Carrion Pidgeons - Spoon
1 AbbeyGargoyle - Alx2
2 Fadeblue - CP x2
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Oh come on. I'm a multivoter in every sense that matters, including in terms of endgame balance. I don't see how the extra complexity changes that. It isn't a matter of being secretive about it, it's matter of being able to use it without vomiting info onto the thread. Why should that be a problem?
I'll grant that the Smith avatar changes things somewhat, but we went over my behavior with Axel on Day 1, and the answers aren't any different now than they were then.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
I don't agree with alx's reasoning on his vote on you. However, i must bring up:
Because clearly you used links to back this up.....not to mention the fact it's accusing me of two things that arent scum tells, but you are claiming to be scum tells on me personally.....this comment and vote is worse than Alx's imo, and not just cuz you're voting me. Just seems a little hypocritical of you, hmm?.
Also, @ZDS, if you could stop with the "more people need to notice this, do this" garbage, and argue why you think said person is scum instead it'd be much nicer. I disagree with alx's vote reasoning, but i dont see it as scummy.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Verified.
Last free post till Friday.
It's because I know I am a townie so I can do that.
On a more serious note, I was culling from my notes for examples when I found out work would be relatively easy for the next day or so. So I changed my mind and am trying to do what will be perceived as a more "neutral" PBPA of you as you do not like how "singleminded" ZDS has been of you and perceive bias there.
Contrary to my last post and upon further review, Alx2's vote doesn't look that bad. He's got a point about most of AG's posts, and ZDS's thought that he was ignoring the matters at hand isn't that valid since the matters at hand were largely settling down. Only Charm's info-vomit hadn't been heavily addressed when Alx put down his vote.
Oh, yes? Is this you claiming to be scum?
Unvote, unvote, Vote ZDS
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
Meh, someone will figure it out eventually anyhow.
Peter Silberman.
I'm a broken man struggling to cope with the current state of affairs.
I've seen so much violence... so many deaths... I just can't take this.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
You're just jealous that I didn't comment on your case against Loran. So, here goes: The "case" does a better job of showing ZDS' emotions that it does determining Loran's alignment.