You don't need to apologize. First, because you're trying to kill me (recruit me?) in my sleep. Second, because if someone does something that stands out, you SHOULD point it out.
Never apologize for playing the game
That's kind of you to say. But the fact is if I had checked my notes more carefully I would have seen my error, so bringing it up at all just makes me look dumb. Unless, of course, I brought it up deliberately just to see how people would react even though I know it's wrong. But I didn't.
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The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
Wait for Xyre to show up. Once he says what he did with Axel, I'll say what happened to me. I don't want to give Xyre any outs if he's making **** up with Axel. "Oh... yeah... not, I must have targeted Grak........" etc etc etc.
Okay, time to shed some light on the situation here.
Kraj is lying about targeting ZDS. I know this because I, in fact, was the one he recruited last night.
I thought about waiting things out to see if there was any way to keep Kraj alive, but I don't see one. So I figure I might as well jump ship and keep working with the town (yes, I will revert to town after Kraj is dead).
I don't know what happened with ZDS, so it's still possible he is scum, but it's not the result of Kraj, so we can count that scenario out. ZDS still needs to explain the whole ability thing, though.
As for Xyre, he also needs to explain whatever is going on with him and Axel and Grak.
Okay, time to shed some light on the situation here.
Kraj is lying about targeting ZDS. I know this because I, in fact, was the one he recruited last night.
I thought about waiting things out to see if there was any way to keep Kraj alive, but I don't see one. So I figure I might as well jump ship and keep working with the town (yes, I will revert to town after Kraj is dead).
I don't know what happened with ZDS, so it's still possible he is scum, but it's not the result of Kraj, so we can count that scenario out. ZDS still needs to explain the whole ability thing, though.
As for Xyre, he also needs to explain whatever is going on with him and Axel and Grak.
Now THIS makes sense. You are someone I would expect Kraj to target.
A part of me wants to call ******** on the "reverts to town" thing.
Like, what incentive would you have to not rat out Kraj if you revert back...
Wait... I think I answered my own question. If you stay an agent, you have 2 ways to win. If you rat Kraj out, you only have one. So I guess even with that clause, you have an incentive to not rat him out.
I think I kinda like the way Azrael designed that role. Assuming we have the whole story now.
Alx: Not that I know of. I assume he was just trying to wreak havoc before the cult dies.
Grak: There's usually no gain in immediately ratting out your cult leader if you revert to town. Like you said, it's basically cutting down one of my possible ways to win. I would've preferred to win as a cult since it's more interesting, but I don't see that happening now.
I find that a tad difficult to believe. You see, some of the things that player said on day 1 really do not mesh with an untargetable or a hider. I could reveal the name of my target so we can all discuss it together, but then I'll be potentially revealing an untargetable townie, a good way to waste a scum kill, so I'm a bit reluctant. Maybe I should just shut up, lynch Kraj and sort out the mess on day 3? I remain open for input.
On a completely unrelated topic.... a recent event has caused me to also discover an untargetable player. I went back and searched for this post so I could find out who it was who said it earlier in the day.
I think it's EXTREMELY likely we are talking about the same person (same flavor), but I am roadblocked in trying to figure out what we can take from it.
I have no interest in saying more on this topic right now, so don't ask. But I wanted this post out there as a JIC and to verify that Alx is most likely telling the truth and to confirm that he was not roleblocked last night.
The town rallies around Atlseal, building momentum to a fever pitch. Kraj confronts them with a disdainful sneer, waiting for the mob to strike.
But it is not against Kraj that the first blow of the day is struck.
Resting languidly upon the floor, Atlseal has been growing pale and sickly not long since the day began. Almost transparent.
The roar of a bullet sounds forth from the mass huddled around Atlseal. The sound of glass breaking and cracking fills the room, as the projectile passes through the floor, causing spiderweb cracks. Hurriedly, the crowd jumps back, avoiding the damaged panel.
But nothing and no one remains where Atlseal was just sitting. Only the ghost of a transparent smile, and soon, even that disappears.
Atlseal has vanished.
Actually, never mind. I was under the impression the lynch count dropped and Kraj can selfhammer and end the day. But no, it's still 11 to lynch. My bad.
With ZDS confirmed as not being targeted, I think that it's fine to move forward with lynching Kraj now. I also think that the correct action is to NK Fade...as much as I'd like to believe that he will revert back to normal when the cult leader dies, it is clearly too much of a risk to just take his word for it.
Yeah, apparently Sutherlands is back. I'm not sure what to think of the constantly-rotating player, though.
Cyan: I don't think we should be moving forward until we at least resolve the Xyre thing.
And while I understand your apprehension regarding me, I'll let you know that NKing me is just losing another townie. atlseal already confirmed that Kraj is cult leader, so unless you believe that the cult continues without the leader, I pose no threat.
Considering that it's Agent Smith, it wouldn't surprise me at all if you become the CL when Kraj dies. The last time I saw a cult, it was..an Agent Smith-based cult, and that was exactly how it worked. Certainly, I can't see how we can take the risk of just hoping that you revert, particularly since we don't have much in the way of verifying it.
I don't see much reason for digging into Xyre today. He could come out and post 'My name is Xyre and I am the mafia godfather', and I would still think that lynching Kraj and vigging you is the correct course of action for today. A cult can never be left unchecked, IMO. He's a great first candidate for tomorrow, though.
Obviously, Kraj is the lynch today, but it's pretty foolish to not get Xyre's explanation today. Given that we need Axel and Grak to corroborate or deny Xyre's story, waiting until tomorrow unnecessarily risks one of them dying.
I won't really bother arguing that you should leave me alive. Either you believe me or you don't, and I can't fault anyone for not trusting a cult.
In case you do decide to kill me, here's some information that might come in handy: secret rule #6 says that anyone using the Agent Smith avatar (even if they're not in the cult) loses all vote-based and kill-based abilities.
Why do I have the feeling that there's just no way we are ever going to be able to figure out what's going on in this game? Unless everyone speaks up and says exactly what they are doing.
We simply can't have a Cult that continues to recruit after the leader dies. That is a Cult we just can't ever get rid of (baring some super townie special ability). It could be a Cult which continues to exist (without a recruit ability), but in that case Fade would have been incredibly stupid to have come out like that. Why put himself into a situation where his name was not even involved at all?
It also could be something like an every-other-night recruitment, which is still bad if anyone in the Cult can do it. But even if it's that, then no one would be able to be recruited tonight.
Xyre needs to speak and explain himself better too. Being vague and coy is not an option.
fade: is using that avatar optional for you?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Hey, I just saw formerly secret rule #7 says you can target players on the replacement list with abilities.
As if keeping track of people actually in the game wasn't bad enough....
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Okay, now I'm totally confused. My confirmation PM from Az both says that Ax is the person who retrieved the spoon, and says, in so many words, the spoon was deployed correctly, so I have no idea how Grakthis came to be in control of the spoon.
I might as well claim it then. I'm the Spoon Boy. For corroboration, look to my question to Grakthis early day 1, where I asked him "if I say Spoon Boy isn't in the game, what does that say about me?" It was a logic trap, because I was rather frustrated by Grakthis' ego at the time. The answer to the question is "nothing", because it was deliberately set up to have no correct answer. Thus, when Grak answered it in the way any normal person would, I responded that he was, quote, "full of it", which was my personal confirmation that he wasn't as on-track as he thought he was.
But anyway, as to my ability:
Basically, I have 2 spoons (one of which I deployed last night). If the person I target accepts the spoon, and he or she is non-town, they take 2 more votes to lynch, but if that person is town, they untargetable (I think - Az used a peculiar phrase to describe the effect, one which I won't repeat for fear of modkill, and when I questioned him, he was evasive, but my impression is that it makes them untargetable). Because I believed Cyan and Ax's claim, Ax was the most obvious choice. However, I have no idea why Grak has it. Fortunately for me, there's no indication from my role that I need to be alive for the spoons to work, so even if I die tonight, I'll likely have deployed both spoons.
Axel: No, my use of this avatar is not optional. Recruits are required to use it, which is part of what led to my decision to just come clean (since it would be pretty conspicuous to be using it after Smith was already outed).
That reminds me, I need to check with Az whether "requiring less/more votes to lynch" counts as a "vote-based ability."
If you believed Axel's and my claim, it seems that you would have given the spoon to me, thus negating the possibility of Axel or myself ever being NKed?
Not saying I don't believe you, as all of that makes sense, just that the logic of your target seems off. It is certainly interesting that your spoons negate the -2 to lynch drawback for scum, but not for town.
Anyway, Xyre, Axel already clearly indicated that he did, in fact, receive the spoon, and Grak clearly stated that he received something else(related to ice cream), ..so at this point we're only unsure as to what Grak is referring to.
Well, I'd be curious to hear what Grak has to say before I say anything more, and/or if he believes there is a reason for him to be hush about the specifics of what happened to him last night.
I'm now worried about this Cult again though. A Cult that requires the recruits to publicly declare themselves? And removes vote/kill abilities? That's incredibly sucky, unless they've got something major going for them.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
If you believed Axel's and my claim, it seems that you would have given the spoon to me, thus negating the possibility of Axel or myself ever being NKed?
Not saying I don't believe you, as all of that makes sense, just that the logic of your target seems off. It is certainly interesting that your spoons negate the -2 to lynch drawback for scum, but not for town.
Anyway, Xyre, Axel already clearly indicated that he did, in fact, receive the spoon, and Grak clearly stated that he received something else(related to ice cream), ..so at this point we're only unsure as to what Grak is referring to.
After rereading, I don't know what Grak's talking about, but it doesn't seem to be spoons. Maybe someone dipped him in chocolate?
Okay, now I'm totally confused. My confirmation PM from Az both says that Ax is the person who retrieved the spoon, and says, in so many words, the spoon was deployed correctly, so I have no idea how Grakthis came to be in control of the spoon.
I might as well claim it then. I'm the Spoon Boy. For corroboration, look to my question to Grakthis early day 1, where I asked him "if I say Spoon Boy isn't in the game, what does that say about me?" It was a logic trap, because I was rather frustrated by Grakthis' ego at the time. The answer to the question is "nothing", because it was deliberately set up to have no correct answer. Thus, when Grak answered it in the way any normal person would, I responded that he was, quote, "full of it", which was my personal confirmation that he wasn't as on-track as he thought he was.
But anyway, as to my ability:
Basically, I have 2 spoons (one of which I deployed last night). If the person I target accepts the spoon, and he or she is non-town, they take 2 more votes to lynch, but if that person is town, they untargetable (I think - Az used a peculiar phrase to describe the effect, one which I won't repeat for fear of modkill, and when I questioned him, he was evasive, but my impression is that it makes them untargetable). Because I believed Cyan and Ax's claim, Ax was the most obvious choice. However, I have no idea why Grak has it. Fortunately for me, there's no indication from my role that I need to be alive for the spoons to work, so even if I die tonight, I'll likely have deployed both spoons.
Anyway, continue with the braining of Kraj.
Reading is tech:
Quote from Grakthis »
Ok, maybe I jumped the gun. My incident did not involve a spoon, but it did involve something that goes hand in hand with ice cream.
EBWODP: Cyan, I thought your role stipulated that after protecting Ax twice, you died. I can try to find the post, but that's why I went with Ax, trying to skip the middleman. If I didn't think the spoon would be better served with Ax, I'd have gone with you.
Axel: I think the part about removing kill abilities is so that Mafia can also be recruited (at least, that's the impression I got). And I just got a quick answer from Az - the "vote-based abilities" refers mainly to the "-/+X to lynch" conditions.
But I agree with you about the required use of the avatar. I thought that was pretty crappy
But didn't Kraj specifically say he couldn't target scum? I don't think that works. Why would he have lied about that?
So you expect us to believe that Az designed a cult that can both be eliminated with one solitary kill and is easily traced? I have trouble swallowing that.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
But didn't Kraj specifically say he couldn't target scum? I don't think that works. Why would he have lied about that?
Why would he have lied about anything? Honestly, I have no idea.
So you expect us to believe that Az designed a cult that can both be eliminated with one solitary kill and is easily traced? I have trouble swallowing that.
As far as I know, yes, that is how the cult is designed. Perhaps Az has some other stuff going on with the cult, or maybe Kraj knows more about it, but I'm just going off what I've been told.
If you really don't believe it, fine. You can go ahead and kill me tonight too. I'm just trying to spare the town the loss of another townie. Though it's not like it wouldn't be completely obvious if more Agent Smith avatars started popping up.
So, Xyre attempted to send the spoon to Axelrod but instead Grakthis got it? Am I reading this right?
In case you do decide to kill me, here's some information that might come in handy: secret rule #6 says that anyone using the Agent Smith avatar (even if they're not in the cult) loses all vote-based and kill-based abilities.
Sooo... if we force everyone to use the Smith avatar under threat of lynch, mafia can't kill? Sounds like a sweet deal. Too sweet to be true, perhaps.
That's actually an interesting suggestion. I assume that would work, though it's probably not the intended use.
Also, using the avatar doesn't mean you can't vote; it means that any abilities or characteristics that are vote-related are nullified. So you could still lynch someone even while using the Smith avatars (and would probably be the best way to enforce the threat of lynch).
Not that anyone has any reason to believe anything I've said and for good reason, though obviously some things have been true, but Fade is not lying about that rule.
I think the reason the cult has so many limitations is that cults are generally extremely powerful. If I hadn't been discovered on atlseal's whim, it would have been much harder for the town to figure out what was going on.
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The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
That's kind of you to say. But the fact is if I had checked my notes more carefully I would have seen my error, so bringing it up at all just makes me look dumb. Unless, of course, I brought it up deliberately just to see how people would react even though I know it's wrong. But I didn't.
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Third'd.
Wait for Xyre to show up. Once he says what he did with Axel, I'll say what happened to me. I don't want to give Xyre any outs if he's making **** up with Axel. "Oh... yeah... not, I must have targeted Grak........" etc etc etc.
Kraj is lying about targeting ZDS. I know this because I, in fact, was the one he recruited last night.
I thought about waiting things out to see if there was any way to keep Kraj alive, but I don't see one. So I figure I might as well jump ship and keep working with the town (yes, I will revert to town after Kraj is dead).
I don't know what happened with ZDS, so it's still possible he is scum, but it's not the result of Kraj, so we can count that scenario out. ZDS still needs to explain the whole ability thing, though.
As for Xyre, he also needs to explain whatever is going on with him and Axel and Grak.
Now THIS makes sense. You are someone I would expect Kraj to target.
A part of me wants to call ******** on the "reverts to town" thing.
Like, what incentive would you have to not rat out Kraj if you revert back...
Wait... I think I answered my own question. If you stay an agent, you have 2 ways to win. If you rat Kraj out, you only have one. So I guess even with that clause, you have an incentive to not rat him out.
I think I kinda like the way Azrael designed that role. Assuming we have the whole story now.
Grak: There's usually no gain in immediately ratting out your cult leader if you revert to town. Like you said, it's basically cutting down one of my possible ways to win. I would've preferred to win as a cult since it's more interesting, but I don't see that happening now.
BTW, did I mention I'm unlynchable? Foolish humans...thinking they could rid themselves of Smith so easily!
Oh, and Grak: ZDS would have actually been a good recruit target. I'll explain my thoughts on the matter if you want.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
On a completely unrelated topic.... a recent event has caused me to also discover an untargetable player. I went back and searched for this post so I could find out who it was who said it earlier in the day.
I think it's EXTREMELY likely we are talking about the same person (same flavor), but I am roadblocked in trying to figure out what we can take from it.
I have no interest in saying more on this topic right now, so don't ask. But I wanted this post out there as a JIC and to verify that Alx is most likely telling the truth and to confirm that he was not roleblocked last night.
I think we should try an verify this claim today:D, because I certainly don't believe it for one instant.
But it is not against Kraj that the first blow of the day is struck.
Resting languidly upon the floor, Atlseal has been growing pale and sickly not long since the day began. Almost transparent.
The roar of a bullet sounds forth from the mass huddled around Atlseal. The sound of glass breaking and cracking fills the room, as the projectile passes through the floor, causing spiderweb cracks. Hurriedly, the crowd jumps back, avoiding the damaged panel.
But nothing and no one remains where Atlseal was just sitting. Only the ghost of a transparent smile, and soon, even that disappears.
Atlseal has vanished.
---
Vote Count 2.3
8 Kraj-Atlseal, Grakthis, Abbey, Spoon, Xyre, ZDS, J-Effe IV, Hawkeye7
Not Voting- Fadeblue, DYH, Axelrod, Kraj, Alx2, Pod, Vampyr, Dagger, Sutherlands, Cyan, Rafaelk, Loran16, Carrion Pigeons
With 20 alive, it's 11 to lynch.
Sutherlands is authorized to replace H_C.
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Well... that probably makes my last post moot.
Yes.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
He's not dead. Atleast, he better not be
Cyan: I don't think we should be moving forward until we at least resolve the Xyre thing.
And while I understand your apprehension regarding me, I'll let you know that NKing me is just losing another townie. atlseal already confirmed that Kraj is cult leader, so unless you believe that the cult continues without the leader, I pose no threat.
I don't see much reason for digging into Xyre today. He could come out and post 'My name is Xyre and I am the mafia godfather', and I would still think that lynching Kraj and vigging you is the correct course of action for today. A cult can never be left unchecked, IMO. He's a great first candidate for tomorrow, though.
I won't really bother arguing that you should leave me alive. Either you believe me or you don't, and I can't fault anyone for not trusting a cult.
In case you do decide to kill me, here's some information that might come in handy: secret rule #6 says that anyone using the Agent Smith avatar (even if they're not in the cult) loses all vote-based and kill-based abilities.
We simply can't have a Cult that continues to recruit after the leader dies. That is a Cult we just can't ever get rid of (baring some super townie special ability). It could be a Cult which continues to exist (without a recruit ability), but in that case Fade would have been incredibly stupid to have come out like that. Why put himself into a situation where his name was not even involved at all?
It also could be something like an every-other-night recruitment, which is still bad if anyone in the Cult can do it. But even if it's that, then no one would be able to be recruited tonight.
Xyre needs to speak and explain himself better too. Being vague and coy is not an option.
fade: is using that avatar optional for you?
As if keeping track of people actually in the game wasn't bad enough....
I might as well claim it then. I'm the Spoon Boy. For corroboration, look to my question to Grakthis early day 1, where I asked him "if I say Spoon Boy isn't in the game, what does that say about me?" It was a logic trap, because I was rather frustrated by Grakthis' ego at the time. The answer to the question is "nothing", because it was deliberately set up to have no correct answer. Thus, when Grak answered it in the way any normal person would, I responded that he was, quote, "full of it", which was my personal confirmation that he wasn't as on-track as he thought he was.
But anyway, as to my ability:
Basically, I have 2 spoons (one of which I deployed last night). If the person I target accepts the spoon, and he or she is non-town, they take 2 more votes to lynch, but if that person is town, they untargetable (I think - Az used a peculiar phrase to describe the effect, one which I won't repeat for fear of modkill, and when I questioned him, he was evasive, but my impression is that it makes them untargetable). Because I believed Cyan and Ax's claim, Ax was the most obvious choice. However, I have no idea why Grak has it. Fortunately for me, there's no indication from my role that I need to be alive for the spoons to work, so even if I die tonight, I'll likely have deployed both spoons.
Anyway, continue with the braining of Kraj.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
That reminds me, I need to check with Az whether "requiring less/more votes to lynch" counts as a "vote-based ability."
Not saying I don't believe you, as all of that makes sense, just that the logic of your target seems off. It is certainly interesting that your spoons negate the -2 to lynch drawback for scum, but not for town.
Anyway, Xyre, Axel already clearly indicated that he did, in fact, receive the spoon, and Grak clearly stated that he received something else(related to ice cream), ..so at this point we're only unsure as to what Grak is referring to.
I'm now worried about this Cult again though. A Cult that requires the recruits to publicly declare themselves? And removes vote/kill abilities? That's incredibly sucky, unless they've got something major going for them.
After rereading, I don't know what Grak's talking about, but it doesn't seem to be spoons. Maybe someone dipped him in chocolate?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Reading is tech:
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
But I agree with you about the required use of the avatar. I thought that was pretty crappy
So you expect us to believe that Az designed a cult that can both be eliminated with one solitary kill and is easily traced? I have trouble swallowing that.
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Why would he have lied about anything? Honestly, I have no idea.
As far as I know, yes, that is how the cult is designed. Perhaps Az has some other stuff going on with the cult, or maybe Kraj knows more about it, but I'm just going off what I've been told.
If you really don't believe it, fine. You can go ahead and kill me tonight too. I'm just trying to spare the town the loss of another townie. Though it's not like it wouldn't be completely obvious if more Agent Smith avatars started popping up.
Sooo... if we force everyone to use the Smith avatar under threat of lynch, mafia can't kill? Sounds like a sweet deal. Too sweet to be true, perhaps.
1) No, I think Grakthis got something else ice-cream-related.
2) ...except that we can't lynch anyone.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Also, using the avatar doesn't mean you can't vote; it means that any abilities or characteristics that are vote-related are nullified. So you could still lynch someone even while using the Smith avatars (and would probably be the best way to enforce the threat of lynch).
But yeah, I'll ask him.
I think the reason the cult has so many limitations is that cults are generally extremely powerful. If I hadn't been discovered on atlseal's whim, it would have been much harder for the town to figure out what was going on.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
@Xyre: Yeah, my bad, I wasn't thinking clearly there.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
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Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
And does "untargetable" includes that this person can't be killed by the mafia ?