I don't quite get this. We lynch you and then....what?
We suddenly take a vote on who we want a free investigation of?
Before the game goes to Night?
Does it have to be a majority vote? Or is it just "most votes wins?"
Is there some kind of time limit on this?
And we get the answer posted in the thread, before the game officially goes to Night?
You are asking too many questions. I don't want the scum to know exactly how it works. As a matter of fact, I don't want them to know any more about it than they already do - at this point.
As a matter of fact, unvote LJustus. I am doing this for one simple reason. . . I want to be the one to hammer myself. Once I get to a point where I am one from lynch and all pertinent questions have been answered, I will re-vote myself. I don't want to answer too many questions before it's hammer time. :B
I don't feel like answering Grakthis's biased PBPA right now, this LJustus matter seems much more interesting. Besides, why would I need to prove my innocence when LJustus dying, and me being investigated(if he is telling the truth), will prove it for me? When he dies and turns up scum, I'll address Grak's attack on me at that point.
You are asking too many questions. I don't want the scum to know exactly how it works. As a matter of fact, I don't want them to know any more about it than they already do - at this point.
As a matter of fact, unvote LJustus. I am doing this for one simple reason. . . I want to be the one to hammer myself. Once I get to a point where I am one from lynch and all pertinent questions have been answered, I will re-vote myself. I don't want to answer too many questions before it's hammer time. :B
Pft. What's wrong, can't come up with a bunch of answers on the spot? All of Axel's questions are completely logical, and likely many of us were wondering them. I know that I asked myself all of those things when you first revealed this.
It looks to me like Axel has called LJustus' bluff, and LJustus knows it, and is now backing down. Especially with the unvote. Now he has lots of time to stall and come up with something, since he 'wants to hammer himself'.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
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This is NOT a gambit. I am telling the truth. I believe that the best course of action is to lynch me. I find it odd that some people find me too scummy to lynch. Not only is that freaking hilarious, but it may be a bit telling.
Upon further review, my other ability applies to NK's or any other killing ability that specificies me as the target. So, sorry to any daykillers we have. . . My ability will work on you too.
I will ask that the town allow me the opportunity to post one last post before I am hammered, so that I can clarify any misunderstandings or answer any outstading questions or anything like that. I may not be around until tomorrow though.
You are asking too many questions. I don't want the scum to know exactly how it works. As a matter of fact, I don't want them to know any more about it than they already do - at this point.
As a matter of fact, unvote LJustus. I am doing this for one simple reason. . . I want to be the one to hammer myself. Once I get to a point where I am one from lynch and all pertinent questions have been answered, I will re-vote myself. I don't want to answer too many questions before it's hammer time. :B
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
.I will ask that the town allow me the opportunity to post one last post before I am hammered, so that I can clarify any misunderstandings or answer any outstading questions or anything like that. I may not be around until tomorrow though.
Quote from LJustus »
.As a matter of fact, unvote LJustus. I am doing this for one simple reason. . . I want to be the one to hammer myself. Once I get to a point where I am one from lynch and all pertinent questions have been answered, I will re-vote myself. I don't want to answer too many questions before it's hammer time. :B
That is some VERY selective bolding of words. almost out of context without actually being so.
Clearly both of those posts you have quoted indicate that he would do these things WHEN he gets to the point of being on the verge of possible hammering. We are not there yet so if you are trying to imply he has not followed through with what he said he would do, as Cyan has done, I would say you are a little premature. If your intention is to speed him towards the point of possible hammering then I wish you had simply said so and I would not have had to offer up this post.
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Ljustus would be the correct and safe play for today ; Cyan is a riskier but better play. I am willing to take this risk and see what atlseal is up to do. I still don't believe his claim.
So... you're not voting for the "correct and safe" play, nor are you voting for the guy who's claim you don't believe? Instead you'd like to take the risky play?
Cyan's responce to LJustus' claim has been just what I'd expect of a panicked scum. We can skip the middleman, and go directly to the source. Unvote LJustus, Vote Cyan
Now that I am halfway to being lynched, let me explain. . .
I am Sati, townie sacrifice. My whole point in this game is to be lynched. When I am, the town will gain the ability to investigate any person they choose. The result of this investigation will become public knowledge.
I have another ability that would have kicked in if I were NK'd, but I believe I garnered enough suspicion that I never would have been NK'd.
Does vigging count? Because I'm sure that could be arranged, if you being NK'd is better than you being lynched.
I'm personally not even going to entertain the thought of a jester. It's a stupid role and it has never to my knowledge appeared in a MTGS game, and I doubt Az would go down that path. Jesters screw over "good" play, and are too easy to win with.
I'll consider whether or not it makes sense to lynch a townie to (in the worst case) clear another townie. Is it an alignment reveal only, LJ, or is it also an ability and/or name reveal?
EBWDP: Oh, I missed a page of posts. Well, the above still stands. I still want to know if LJ thinks it would be good for the town if he was killed by a town vig (gaining a benefit and potentially confirming a vig down the track without blowing a lynch on a townie = good stuff).
Obviously the Cyan discussion has somewhat taken over in the last page; there's some merit to the view that he's cracking under the threat of a public investigation, but I really need to read it more thoroughly this evening when I get home. It's not like it's hard to get Cyan heated and angry at any time.
Yes, I'm so panicked, which is why I want LJustus to get lynched, even though everyone has already indicated that, if he's telling the truth, they want me to get investigated. Seriously, at least make accusations against me that like..make sense.
@Hawkeye: Your vote is so obviously an inattentive bandwagon vote that I can't motivate myself to actually care about it. I'll answer Grak's points, when I don't feel that doing so will detract from other matters that are actually pressing. Or, I'll be forced to claim, and my own role, combined with the knowledge I have of another role, will remove any doubt whatsoever that I could be anything but town anyway. Either way.
@LJustus: There is only one scum between us, and it's not me.
What do you mean? I know I'm not scum, and I suspect that LJustus is. I was referring to the statement that he made in post 951.
You seemed pretty sure that "one of you is scum." And I don't see what basis you have for suspecting LJustus, other than a conspiracy theory that he's making an awful play as scum. One would think that a more natural townie reaction would be to think you're both townie, but you seem pretty bent on arguing that he's the scum and you're not.
As I stated previously, the manner in which LJustus hopped on to atlseal's wagon is the *exact* copy of an action that he took in Verona Mafia, where he thought he was citing my 'great strategy' as a valid reason to get on a wagon. He was scum in that game, and the wagon was against a scum on another team. This was very unsettling to me, for obvious reasons, and his subsequent responses only made it worse. This current turn of events also seems completely like a scum gambit to me. In my mind, there is no doubt that LJustus is scum. To address the statement you made, obviously I was being figurative(I'm not sure exactly what word I'm looking for here, maybe some kind of hyperbole) with the 'one of us is scum and it's not me' bit. Dramatization or something.
Yes, I'm so panicked, which is why I want LJustus to get lynched, even though everyone has already indicated that, if he's telling the truth, they want me to get investigated. Seriously, at least make accusations against me that like..make sense.
This is the guy who is arguing that LJustus, the dude TRYING to get lynched, is scum.
He's telling someone else to make accusations that "like...." make sense.
After sleeping on it, I am personally inclined to believe LJ's claim with respect to both his character and his ability. Before anyone asks, I will not elaborate anymore on this statement but I believe him on this matter.
Actually....after looking back at Cyan...i can't really believe him to be scum.
Seriously.
Quote from Cyans"949 »
It looks to me like Axel has called LJustus' bluff, and LJustus knows it, and is now backing down. Especially with the unvote. Now he has lots of time to stall and come up with something, since he 'wants to hammer himself'.
So let me get this straight. A scum Cyan is trying to get the guy who claims to be investigated upon lynch, lynched, with posts like these. Because when LJ turns up town, a scum cyan would certainly not be upset.
I mean, comeon guys....The only ways Cyan's actions make sense as scum are:
1. Both Cyan and LJ are scum.
2. Cyan knows that forsome reason LJ's alignment will be in doubt after LJ's death.
I don't see either of these as particularly likely.
@ZDS, how do you get from:
Cyan:"Yes, I'm so panicked, which is why I want LJustus to get lynched, even though everyone has already indicated that, if he's telling the truth, they want me to get investigated. Seriously, at least make accusations against me that like..make sense."
to this:
"Yes, I'm so panicked, which is why I want to discredit LJustus' investigation result, since everyone has already indicated that, if he's telling the truth, they want me to get investigated."
He can't discredit LJ if LJ's alignment is revealed upon death, and considering arim's alignment was revealed.....
It seems people are WAY too eager to run up cyan.
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I challenge *anyone* that keeps ignorantly insisting that I am panicking to explain the following: If I am scum, I know that LJustus is either A)town and telling the truth or B)scum and lying. If I am scum and I know he is town, why would I want him to get lynched, thus triggering a potential investigation on me? The notion that I am panicking is flatly stupid. If I were scum and knew LJustus to be town, as already stated, I would have done everything possible to *discourage* a lynch on him. Why would I aggressively pursue an action that would lead to my own demise? Seriously, there is no universe in which this makes any sense whatsoever.
However, if I am town, either of the following can be true and make sense. A)I believe that LJustus is scum, and consequently want him to be l ynched because of it. B)I believe/partially believe LJustus claim, and am willing to see him lynched today to verify it, knowing that there will likely not be a better time than Day 1 for this type of circumstance. This is particularly relevant since everyone wants me to be investigated.
Essentially, no matter the circumstance, LJustus being lynched today is beneficial to the town. Hence, I am still voting for him. As it happens, I think that his claim is a flat-out lie. But even if he didn't, I would *still* want him to be lynched, and it only makes sense for me to want this if I am town.
@Grakthis: Considering that your basis for not lynching LJustus today was a scummy emotional response, I find it highly hypocritical for you to attack my line of reasoning. Seriously, 'He's not clever enough to put forth this plan as scum' is literally one of the worst arguments that I have ever read.
@Grakthis: Considering that your basis for not lynching LJustus today was a scummy emotional response, I find it highly hypocritical for you to attack my line of reasoning. Seriously, 'He's not clever enough to put forth this plan as scum' is literally one of the worst arguments that I have ever read.
Man... am I voting for you still? Just to remind myself [b]Vote: Cyan[b/].
Let's start with this:
Quote from Cyan »
If I am scum and I know he is town, [B]why would I want him to get lynched, thus triggering a potential investigation on me[/B]?
If LJustus is scum, why would he want you to lynch him?
Answer that question and you'll have the answer to your question.
I'll give you a hint. It's 5 letters and is sometimes called sicilian logic.
Second, the notion that my "basis for not lynching LJustus today was a scummy emotional response" is laughable. First of all, please show how my basis for not lynchimg him was emotional. Second of all, please show how that behavior was scummy.
So is this an actual attack on me? Or are you going to backtrack from this too?
Quote from Cyan »
Seriously, 'He's not clever enough to put forth this plan as scum' is literally one of the worst arguments that I have ever read.
Oh, so reading people is not part of mafia anymore? I was pretty sure that reading people is actually the point of the game.
Did I get this wrong? HAVE I BEEN DOING IT WRONG FOR ALL THESE YEARS?!? MAFIA IS NOT ACTUALLY ABOUT READING PEOPLE?!?! OMG! WHAT WILL I DO WITH MYSELF?!?!?!
The one problem with both loran and Cyan's analysis is that Cyan's outburst was in the context of a choice between lynching LJ and lynching Cyan.
So if Cyan doesn't convince us to go through with lynching LJ, he just gets lynched straight. Scum Cyan is faced with the choice of being lynched, or having the town use its lynch today on a townie and blow an investigation before he gets lynched.
(And then there's potential godfather and roleblock issues, but that's reaching a bit).
Against that- it is not hard to make Cyan blow up.
Against that, Cyan's #975 (just above this post) is terrible. As explained above, a scum Cyan has an excellent reason to want LJ lynched. It doesn't "only" make sense for Cyan to want LJ lynched if Cyan is town. Grakthis' comment on LJ is not a scummy emotional response. For LJ to do this as scum would be a huge gambit, there is a strong likelihood he has created his own lynch (whether today or in the future), and there's no obvious gain for the mafia. Generally the way to spot a mafia gambit is it gains something for the mafia- e.g. Pod's lie in DOTA. I don't see what LJ's claim gets for the mafia, unless he's managed to forecast that we will never lynch him. And that's a hell of a forecast to gamble with, and also not true.
I wonder how many times I will have to say the phrase 'I don't think that LJustus is actually scum, I think this is a gambit' before people realize this.
Your basis for not lynching LJustus was nothing but emotional. Nowhere do you present any kind of logical, or town-beneficial reason to not lynch him. Other people stated that it would be better to keep him alive and use his ability later, when the field of players is narrowed. While this is arguably flawed logic, it is at least *logic*. Your reasoning behind not lynching him now? He's too dumb(your own words) to run this play as scum. This is flatly an appeal to the emotions of other players, leaning on them to make a decision that has no logical basis. This is scummy for any number of reasons, not the least of which being, if LJustus comes up as scum, you are not accountable.
And don't try and say that such a respond is 'reading' a player. Reading a player is analyzing things that people have a tendency to do as town/scum/whatever, and making judgments based upon this. Reading a player is recognizing when a person is responding negatively to pressure, and logically explaining this. Making statements like 'LJustus isn't clever enough to make this play' is not 'reading him', it is attacking him in an emotional/personal fashion, which is never a pro-town behavior.
@Rafk...good point... Obviously the morning is getting @ me.
@Cyan...
Your basis for not lynching LJustus was nothing but emotional. Nowhere do you present any kind of logical, or town-beneficial reason to not lynch him. Other people stated that it would be better to keep him alive and use his ability later, when the field of players is narrowed. While this is arguably flawed logic, it is at least *logic*. Your reasoning behind not lynching him now? He's too dumb(your own words) to run this play as scum. This is flatly an appeal to the emotions of other players, leaning on them to make a decision that has no logical basis. This is scummy for any number of reasons, not the least of which being, if LJustus comes up as scum, you are not accountable.
Uh....Rafk didn't sound emotional to me...but you sure do.
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EBWODP, Or are you referring to ZDS.....Cyan could you make that clear?
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I wonder how many times I will have to say the phrase 'I don't think that LJustus is actually scum, I think this is a gambit' before people realize this.
Uhm, Cyan:
Quote from Cyan »
This current turn of events also seems completely like a scum gambit to me. In my mind, there is no doubt that LJustus is scum.
Quote from Cyan »
What do you mean? I know I'm not scum, and I suspect that LJustus is. I was referring to the statement that he made in post 951.
Quote from Cyan »
LJustus: There is only one scum between us, and it's not me.
So, it would probably help if that was actually what you said. I realize you've since backed down off the "only one scum between us" comment as overdramatization, but that doesn't change the other times you've essentially said 'I think LJ is scum'.
Frankly, I can't see LJustus making this play as scum. To Raf and/or Grak's point, there has to be some sort of realizable gain for the mafia in order to make it. Do you honestly think he's going to avoid the noose the entire game with this claim?
Don't credit Grak with points that he didn't make. While it is possible that there is merit to the argument that this play doesn't make sense from a scum perspective, Grakthis never stated this. The only thing he ever said, and said twice, was 'LJustus isn't smart/clever/whatever enough to make this play as scum and therefore must be town'. That argument is terrible and scummy both.
To the point that he wouldn't make this play as scum, the fact that this immediately comes to mind for everyone is, in and of itself, a great reason to make this play as scum. It seems like a fairly large error to have committed the same play, exactly, in this game as he did as scum in another game, and even LJustus himself clearly agrees with the notion that he has been scummy this game. Will something like this carry him to the end of the game? Quite possibly. All it takes is a couple of mislynches to put the town in a point where they're not going to be able to lynch a claimed townie just to get an investigation. It's really not so desperate a gambit as everyone wants to make it out to be.
@RafK: The single scenario that you came up with where I might be scum is invalid. Even if forced to claim, I will not be lynched today.
@DYH: You seem confused. I absolutely *do* think that LJustus is scum, for reasons that I have already explained. I was just being dramatic with the 'There is only one scum between us' bit. I was trying to explain to Fade that I don't *know* that LJustus is scum, I simply suspect it very strongly.
@Cyan: Firstly, then what the heck is that comment I quoted at the start of the last post?
Secondly, while Grak didn't make the direct comment about this situation, he did state earlier that scum typically don't gambit on day one.
Just curious, why all the animosity towards him? Seriously, if you've seen him play on MiseTings, this is tame, and frankly I've found him to be rather enjoyable here. I thought you weren't going to get caught up in that.
Your confidence in your claim leads me to believe you're town, but good gracious, calm down and rationalize for a minute, man.
I wonder how many times I will have to say the phrase 'I don't think that LJustus is actually scum, I think this is a gambit' before people realize this.
lol.
First of all, I am 99.99% sure you actually, directly said that you think LJ is scum. In fact, I remember you making a comment about "one of us" being scum (where US is you and LJ).
But, let's assume you're not lying....ao you think it's a TOWNIE gambit? So you think LJ is a townie but he is running a gambit to get himself lynched?
No, it's a gambit to keep himself out of the spotlight for an indefinite amount of time. Look at how people reacted immediately after hearing his claim. My guess is that this is exactly what he was banking on. But I'm not buying it, I suggest that we lynch him as lying scum.
Worst case scenario, if he actually is town, today is the best day to take such an action anyway, and we'll get a free investigation out of it.
So, now we know you're a liar.
Quote from Cyan »
Your basis for not lynching LJustus was nothing but emotional. Nowhere do you present any kind of logical, or town-beneficial reason to not lynch him.
First of all, is your ability to link or quote broken? Is there a switch somewhere I can flip to get it working again?
Dude... if we lynch you, what stops the mafia from just killing the ta...
wait.. I guess if they do that. We still kinda win.
I don't like this plan. It bugs me.
I don't want to lynch a townie just to gain an investigation. Especailly since, right now, we can probably write you off as town.
I mean, nothing personal, but you're not clever enough to do this as scum.
So, my arguments were logical (don't lynch a townie just to gain an investigation) and based on my ability to read LJustus, who I have played mafia with before.
Neither of those is "emotional." I guess you could call "I don't like this plan. It bugs me." Emotional. But that's hardly all I say.
Quote from Cyan »
Other people stated that it would be better to keep him alive and use his ability later, when the field of players is narrowed. While this is arguably flawed logic, it is at least *logic*. Your reasoning behind not lynching him now? He's too dumb(your own words) to run this play as scum.
Actually, as you can see above, that's not what i said. And I especially did not say he's too dumb, as you can see above.
So, that's another lie.
Vote: Cyan
Quote from Cyan »
This is flatly an appeal to the emotions of other players, leaning on them to make a decision that has no logical basis. This is scummy for any number of reasons, not the least of which being, if LJustus comes up as scum, you are not accountable.
Well, since this part is based on something I didn't even say... not much point in responding to it.
Quote from Cyan »
And don't try and say that such a respond is 'reading' a player. Reading a player is analyzing things that people have a tendency to do as town/scum/whatever, and making judgments based upon this. Reading a player is recognizing when a person is responding negatively to pressure, and logically explaining this. Making statements like 'LJustus isn't clever enough to make this play' is not 'reading him', it is attacking him in an emotional/personal fashion, which is never a pro-town behavior.
No... it's actually reading him based on his tendencies and making judgements based on that.
See, his tendency is not towards the risky, especially no in a spot where he could lose everything by getting lynched.
So, in fact, that is textbook reading him.
Just like I am reading you, as you sit here and wriggle around on the hook.
You're dying. Accept it. You should probably go ahead and claim now too.
The only thing he ever said, and said twice, was 'LJustus isn't smart/clever/whatever enough to make this play as scum and therefore must be town'. That argument is terrible and scummy both.
Hay! More lies from Cyan! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!
I misstated that. It should have said 'I don't think that LJustus is actually town(or I think LJustus is scum), etc etc'. I was getting agitated and confused myself.
I misstated that. It should have said 'I don't think that LJustus is actually town(or I think LJustus is scum), etc etc'. I was getting agitated and confused myself.
How does that make any sense then?
I think everyone was assuming, correctly, that you "think" LJ is scum.
No one doubted that.
Who were you responding to?
"Hay guyz, Cyan thinks the sky is blue."
"I don't know how many times I have to tell you guys, I think the sky is red!"
"wait, didn't you say earlier you thought the sky was blue?"
"Oh, yeah, I got that mixed up. I meant to say blue."
Cyan, if you have a claim that is 100% going to clear you, I would very much like to hear it. The worst case scenario for the town here is that both you and LJustus are town, we lynch him, and he wastes an unnecessary inspection ability on you.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Reading Cyan's votes has made it clearer to me that he's the right target for today. I'd also like to see his claim, especially considering all the information he's doled out today.
I think everyone was assuming, correctly, that you "think" LJ is scum.
No one doubted that.
Who were you responding to?
"Hay guyz, Cyan thinks the sky is blue."
"I don't know how many times I have to tell you guys, I think the sky is red!"
"wait, didn't you say earlier you thought the sky was blue?"
"Oh, yeah, I got that mixed up. I meant to say blue."
....
..
.
<_>
If 'no one doubts' that I think LJustus is scum, why are we having this conversation? I mistyped what I was trying to say.
And fine, here is my claim, just so people will leave me alone, and realize that I have a pro-town agenda.
I am T-800, the Model 101 Terminator. I am a Town Bodyguard, for John Connor, who was captured by the machines and inserted in the Matrix as the original 'One'. I do not have a physical body, I am only an essence that exists to protect Connor.
There are a couple of other aspects to my role, but it is in the best interest of the town that they go unstated, and I really don't see why it would be necessary for me to state them anyway.
Can we please look at any number of the opportunistic scum(LJustus, Xyre, etc) on my wagon now? Thanks.
You are asking too many questions. I don't want the scum to know exactly how it works. As a matter of fact, I don't want them to know any more about it than they already do - at this point.
As a matter of fact, unvote LJustus. I am doing this for one simple reason. . . I want to be the one to hammer myself. Once I get to a point where I am one from lynch and all pertinent questions have been answered, I will re-vote myself. I don't want to answer too many questions before it's hammer time. :B
Vote Cyan.
Unvote, vote Cyan.
Pft. What's wrong, can't come up with a bunch of answers on the spot? All of Axel's questions are completely logical, and likely many of us were wondering them. I know that I asked myself all of those things when you first revealed this.
It looks to me like Axel has called LJustus' bluff, and LJustus knows it, and is now backing down. Especially with the unvote. Now he has lots of time to stall and come up with something, since he 'wants to hammer himself'.
This is just silly.
Why?
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English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
That is some VERY selective bolding of words. almost out of context without actually being so.
Clearly both of those posts you have quoted indicate that he would do these things WHEN he gets to the point of being on the verge of possible hammering. We are not there yet so if you are trying to imply he has not followed through with what he said he would do, as Cyan has done, I would say you are a little premature. If your intention is to speed him towards the point of possible hammering then I wish you had simply said so and I would not have had to offer up this post.
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
Ljustus would be the correct and safe play for today ; Cyan is a riskier but better play. I am willing to take this risk and see what atlseal is up to do. I still don't believe his claim.
FoS atlseal, Vote Cyan.
I'm fine lynching LJ or Cyan.
More thoughts when I get into work in 9 or so hours.
Unvote LJustus, Vote Cyan
Does vigging count? Because I'm sure that could be arranged, if you being NK'd is better than you being lynched.
I'm personally not even going to entertain the thought of a jester. It's a stupid role and it has never to my knowledge appeared in a MTGS game, and I doubt Az would go down that path. Jesters screw over "good" play, and are too easy to win with.
I'll consider whether or not it makes sense to lynch a townie to (in the worst case) clear another townie. Is it an alignment reveal only, LJ, or is it also an ability and/or name reveal?
Other question will be answered (to the best of my ability) before end of day.
Obviously the Cyan discussion has somewhat taken over in the last page; there's some merit to the view that he's cracking under the threat of a public investigation, but I really need to read it more thoroughly this evening when I get home. It's not like it's hard to get Cyan heated and angry at any time.
@Hawkeye: Your vote is so obviously an inattentive bandwagon vote that I can't motivate myself to actually care about it. I'll answer Grak's points, when I don't feel that doing so will detract from other matters that are actually pressing. Or, I'll be forced to claim, and my own role, combined with the knowledge I have of another role, will remove any doubt whatsoever that I could be anything but town anyway. Either way.
@LJustus: There is only one scum between us, and it's not me.
What exactly are you basing this on?
You seemed pretty sure that "one of you is scum." And I don't see what basis you have for suspecting LJustus, other than a conspiracy theory that he's making an awful play as scum. One would think that a more natural townie reaction would be to think you're both townie, but you seem pretty bent on arguing that he's the scum and you're not.
This is the guy who is arguing that LJustus, the dude TRYING to get lynched, is scum.
He's telling someone else to make accusations that "like...." make sense.
Really?
@LJ: Just a question here. Before I vote, do you still maintain that the best course of action with regards to your role is to lynch you?
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Seriously.
So let me get this straight. A scum Cyan is trying to get the guy who claims to be investigated upon lynch, lynched, with posts like these. Because when LJ turns up town, a scum cyan would certainly not be upset.
I mean, comeon guys....The only ways Cyan's actions make sense as scum are:
1. Both Cyan and LJ are scum.
2. Cyan knows that forsome reason LJ's alignment will be in doubt after LJ's death.
I don't see either of these as particularly likely.
@ZDS, how do you get from:
Cyan:"Yes, I'm so panicked, which is why I want LJustus to get lynched, even though everyone has already indicated that, if he's telling the truth, they want me to get investigated. Seriously, at least make accusations against me that like..make sense."
to this:
"Yes, I'm so panicked, which is why I want to discredit LJustus' investigation result, since everyone has already indicated that, if he's telling the truth, they want me to get investigated."
He can't discredit LJ if LJ's alignment is revealed upon death, and considering arim's alignment was revealed.....
It seems people are WAY too eager to run up cyan.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
However, if I am town, either of the following can be true and make sense. A)I believe that LJustus is scum, and consequently want him to be l ynched because of it. B)I believe/partially believe LJustus claim, and am willing to see him lynched today to verify it, knowing that there will likely not be a better time than Day 1 for this type of circumstance. This is particularly relevant since everyone wants me to be investigated.
Essentially, no matter the circumstance, LJustus being lynched today is beneficial to the town. Hence, I am still voting for him. As it happens, I think that his claim is a flat-out lie. But even if he didn't, I would *still* want him to be lynched, and it only makes sense for me to want this if I am town.
@Grakthis: Considering that your basis for not lynching LJustus today was a scummy emotional response, I find it highly hypocritical for you to attack my line of reasoning. Seriously, 'He's not clever enough to put forth this plan as scum' is literally one of the worst arguments that I have ever read.
Man... am I voting for you still? Just to remind myself [b]Vote: Cyan[b/].
Let's start with this:
If LJustus is scum, why would he want you to lynch him?
Answer that question and you'll have the answer to your question.
I'll give you a hint. It's 5 letters and is sometimes called sicilian logic.
Second, the notion that my "basis for not lynching LJustus today was a scummy emotional response" is laughable. First of all, please show how my basis for not lynchimg him was emotional. Second of all, please show how that behavior was scummy.
So is this an actual attack on me? Or are you going to backtrack from this too?
Oh, so reading people is not part of mafia anymore? I was pretty sure that reading people is actually the point of the game.
Did I get this wrong? HAVE I BEEN DOING IT WRONG FOR ALL THESE YEARS?!? MAFIA IS NOT ACTUALLY ABOUT READING PEOPLE?!?! OMG! WHAT WILL I DO WITH MYSELF?!?!?!
So if Cyan doesn't convince us to go through with lynching LJ, he just gets lynched straight. Scum Cyan is faced with the choice of being lynched, or having the town use its lynch today on a townie and blow an investigation before he gets lynched.
(And then there's potential godfather and roleblock issues, but that's reaching a bit).
Against that- it is not hard to make Cyan blow up.
Against that, Cyan's #975 (just above this post) is terrible. As explained above, a scum Cyan has an excellent reason to want LJ lynched. It doesn't "only" make sense for Cyan to want LJ lynched if Cyan is town. Grakthis' comment on LJ is not a scummy emotional response. For LJ to do this as scum would be a huge gambit, there is a strong likelihood he has created his own lynch (whether today or in the future), and there's no obvious gain for the mafia. Generally the way to spot a mafia gambit is it gains something for the mafia- e.g. Pod's lie in DOTA. I don't see what LJ's claim gets for the mafia, unless he's managed to forecast that we will never lynch him. And that's a hell of a forecast to gamble with, and also not true.
Against THAT, Cyan is always terrible as town.
Your basis for not lynching LJustus was nothing but emotional. Nowhere do you present any kind of logical, or town-beneficial reason to not lynch him. Other people stated that it would be better to keep him alive and use his ability later, when the field of players is narrowed. While this is arguably flawed logic, it is at least *logic*. Your reasoning behind not lynching him now? He's too dumb(your own words) to run this play as scum. This is flatly an appeal to the emotions of other players, leaning on them to make a decision that has no logical basis. This is scummy for any number of reasons, not the least of which being, if LJustus comes up as scum, you are not accountable.
And don't try and say that such a respond is 'reading' a player. Reading a player is analyzing things that people have a tendency to do as town/scum/whatever, and making judgments based upon this. Reading a player is recognizing when a person is responding negatively to pressure, and logically explaining this. Making statements like 'LJustus isn't clever enough to make this play' is not 'reading him', it is attacking him in an emotional/personal fashion, which is never a pro-town behavior.
@Cyan...
Uh....Rafk didn't sound emotional to me...but you sure do.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Uhm, Cyan:
So, it would probably help if that was actually what you said. I realize you've since backed down off the "only one scum between us" comment as overdramatization, but that doesn't change the other times you've essentially said 'I think LJ is scum'.
Frankly, I can't see LJustus making this play as scum. To Raf and/or Grak's point, there has to be some sort of realizable gain for the mafia in order to make it. Do you honestly think he's going to avoid the noose the entire game with this claim?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
To the point that he wouldn't make this play as scum, the fact that this immediately comes to mind for everyone is, in and of itself, a great reason to make this play as scum. It seems like a fairly large error to have committed the same play, exactly, in this game as he did as scum in another game, and even LJustus himself clearly agrees with the notion that he has been scummy this game. Will something like this carry him to the end of the game? Quite possibly. All it takes is a couple of mislynches to put the town in a point where they're not going to be able to lynch a claimed townie just to get an investigation. It's really not so desperate a gambit as everyone wants to make it out to be.
@RafK: The single scenario that you came up with where I might be scum is invalid. Even if forced to claim, I will not be lynched today.
@DYH: You seem confused. I absolutely *do* think that LJustus is scum, for reasons that I have already explained. I was just being dramatic with the 'There is only one scum between us' bit. I was trying to explain to Fade that I don't *know* that LJustus is scum, I simply suspect it very strongly.
@Loran: I was referring to Grakthis.
Secondly, while Grak didn't make the direct comment about this situation, he did state earlier that scum typically don't gambit on day one.
Just curious, why all the animosity towards him? Seriously, if you've seen him play on MiseTings, this is tame, and frankly I've found him to be rather enjoyable here. I thought you weren't going to get caught up in that.
Your confidence in your claim leads me to believe you're town, but good gracious, calm down and rationalize for a minute, man.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
lol.
First of all, I am 99.99% sure you actually, directly said that you think LJ is scum. In fact, I remember you making a comment about "one of us" being scum (where US is you and LJ).
But, let's assume you're not lying....ao you think it's a TOWNIE gambit? So you think LJ is a townie but he is running a gambit to get himself lynched?
Please explain how that makes ANY sense.
Oh, and I just ran across this post from you.
and
So, now we know you're a liar.
First of all, is your ability to link or quote broken? Is there a switch somewhere I can flip to get it working again?
Second of all, let's look at what I posted.
So, my arguments were logical (don't lynch a townie just to gain an investigation) and based on my ability to read LJustus, who I have played mafia with before.
Neither of those is "emotional." I guess you could call "I don't like this plan. It bugs me." Emotional. But that's hardly all I say.
Actually, as you can see above, that's not what i said. And I especially did not say he's too dumb, as you can see above.
So, that's another lie.
Vote: Cyan
Well, since this part is based on something I didn't even say... not much point in responding to it.
No... it's actually reading him based on his tendencies and making judgements based on that.
See, his tendency is not towards the risky, especially no in a spot where he could lose everything by getting lynched.
So, in fact, that is textbook reading him.
Just like I am reading you, as you sit here and wriggle around on the hook.
You're dying. Accept it. You should probably go ahead and claim now too.
Hay! More lies from Cyan! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!
Do you win a stuffed doll if you get 10?
How does that make any sense then?
I think everyone was assuming, correctly, that you "think" LJ is scum.
No one doubted that.
Who were you responding to?
"Hay guyz, Cyan thinks the sky is blue."
"I don't know how many times I have to tell you guys, I think the sky is red!"
"wait, didn't you say earlier you thought the sky was blue?"
"Oh, yeah, I got that mixed up. I meant to say blue."
....
..
.
<_>
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
If 'no one doubts' that I think LJustus is scum, why are we having this conversation? I mistyped what I was trying to say.
And fine, here is my claim, just so people will leave me alone, and realize that I have a pro-town agenda.
I am T-800, the Model 101 Terminator. I am a Town Bodyguard, for John Connor, who was captured by the machines and inserted in the Matrix as the original 'One'. I do not have a physical body, I am only an essence that exists to protect Connor.
There are a couple of other aspects to my role, but it is in the best interest of the town that they go unstated, and I really don't see why it would be necessary for me to state them anyway.
Can we please look at any number of the opportunistic scum(LJustus, Xyre, etc) on my wagon now? Thanks.
Um, I'm kinda on my own wagon here chief.