AG, whoa, that's cool, talking while dead! Bill and I like, totally did that too, only we had to possess my dad and his deputy and tell the cops what to do, it was awesome!
Anyway, go do what Alx should have done and shoot the heinous Hawkeye, dude. And then cp can hammer Spoon. That would be... excellent.
I am drunk off my ass after we lost, but I am still around. That is my ability as a Teflon Townie. I can post after death and am confirmed town. The other ability I get thanks to Alx is that I get a one-shot anytime vig.
I am severely tempted to point it back at him for hilarity/revenge's sake but I know that is not in the best interests of the town. So I pose an open question: who should I knock off?
Before you go and do anything, how about answering some questions?
First, how long do you stay around? Second, does using the vig power cut short your staying time? Lastly, you said "thanks to Alx," is this in reference to dying in general or did you have an option of abilites based on your killer's alignment?
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Current Soul Collector count: 184
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
If we assume that there are 3 Mafia left (and Spoon is SK), and Abbey shoots a townie, then there are 12 players. Lynch Spoon = 11 players. Mafia night-kill = 10 players. Tomorrow it's 6 to lynch, except the Masons only take 4 to get lynched. If any extra town bodies show up in the Night, it would drop to 5 to lynch and the 3 Man Mafia could conceivably speedy lynch a Mason. They would expose themselves doing so. It would go to 8 players, and a Night-kill makes it 7. The next day it's a race if the 4 town get get the lynch before the 3 Mafia lynch the last Mason. That's crazy.
If there are 3 Mafia still, even if Hawkeye is one of them, then the only other player who hasn't demonstrated any kind of ability at all is Raf. Basically, Hawkeye/Raf would need to be the Flower/Cake senders respectively for what has happened to make sense.
Hawkeye, Raf., what's your theory on who's doing what if it isn't you guys? That someone is using 2 separate abilities at Night? Who would that be anyway?
Puzzle, why are you unvoting CP? Isn't he supposed to hammer Spoon with three votes? You changing your mind at the last minute to try and day-kill Spoon? I do not think Spoon would have claimed immunity to the first action against him if he had a lynch immunity.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Axel: There's not alot we can do about this situation now, except not miss. I said at the beginning that the mason's -2 to lynch thing was going to end up biting us in the ass. Grakthis said he could do something about it, maybe he can expound upon that now.
I don't think Spoon has 2 lives, I think he was telling the truth about being immune to one night action every night. I guess we can shoot him first and then lynch HE.
Something else, also. I'm not convinced that Grakthis is town at all anymore. I know everyone wants to write him off because he can day-protect, but considering that this ability stops A)SK kills and b)town kills but not C)mafia kills, I don't see what makes it inherently town at all. And his claimed role is nothing inspiring, so that doesn't do anything for him either. Plus, his reaction to Alx NKing AG is absurd. You can practically feel the scummy opportunism emanating from his latest posts. And he's added CP to the end of the 'people we should list according to Grakthis', even though CP is almost surely town, and even Grakthis earlier stated exactly this same sentiment, IIRC. Honestly, I almost wish the SK didn't die today, because Grakthis would have to be his next target, and that would clear up alot.
This is sarcasm, right ? Because CP obviously knew Vamp could get speedlynched if he had ONE VOTE on him, and he obviously claimed his intention to lynch Vamp, and he obviously knew all FOUR of his scumbuddy would catch his drift and all vote Vamp before any townie could post, and he obviously knew they would afterward manage to WIFOM themselves into freedom.
*insert dancing pidgeons*
Anyway, @AG : Please kill Hawkeye.
it's 6 to lynch. CP has 3 votes once people started voting for him. The masons are minus-2. You do the math here. He only needs ONE other person to lynch a mason.
Can you give me ANY logical reason why CP would put a vote on someone who is 4 to lynch? ANY reason that doesn't amount to him being scum?
@Axel: There's not alot we can do about this situation now, except not miss. I said at the beginning that the mason's -2 to lynch thing was going to end up biting us in the ass. Grakthis said he could do something about it, maybe he can expound upon that now.
Revealing all of my ability doesn't give us any greater chance of using it positively.
I will say this much... look at my claimed role. What would I do to a person that would take away their drawbacks? How would I *fix* someone?
Quote from Cyan »
Something else, also. I'm not convinced that Grakthis is town at all anymore. I know everyone wants to write him off because he can day-protect, but considering that this ability stops A)SK kills and b)town kills but not C)mafia kills,
You're serious? In a town with no other claimed docs, you're going to doubt the only one? The one who protected someone you are 100% convinced is a townie?
Axel Foley: Beverly Hills Cop is totally awesome. Eddie Murphy is an excellent dude.
Hawkeye must be the heinous flowers and/or bogus cake guy.
Spoon may well be the other one. Or someone not on the list is doing it. Or you or Grak or cp or someone else without a demonstrated day ability. Because dude, I know it's not me.
Cyan, dude- I know Grak kind of went off the deep end with voting Alx. And he day protected atlseal for how many days? But if he's scum, why protect AXEL FOLEY today? That would practically require an Axel and Grak pairing, and even I'm not going there. I totally do not see that man. No way!
The votes are pretty clearly meant to check how many of them there are. The votes are on Puzzle and Vampyr because there is quite clearly no ****ing way some imbecile is going to add more votes to either of them.
However, let's say you're right. Let's say some random guy is "convinced" by Carrion Pigeon's COMPLETE LACK OF A CASE OR OTHER FORM OR ACCUSATION AGAINST VAMPYR and votes Vampyr, and then CP hammers. We've just found two scums, at the cost of one townie.
Tell me, do you think Carrion Pigeons is THAT stupid ? Do you think ANY scum is that stupid ?
I've seen scum do far far dumber things.
Let's say Spoon and CP are both mafia and spoon is a daykiller (and there is no SK, just daykilling mafia).
They combine to speedlynch a mason today, giving them another nightkill and another daykill. That's a minimum of 3 dead townies before we even get a shot at lynching one of them.
And that's assuming CP can't convince us that he was just testing something, or that he didn't mean to lynch Vampyre or that it wasn't all a misunderstanding.
I've seen mafia members do MUCH MUCH MUCH dumber things than that.
Cyan, dude- I know Grak kind of went off the deep end with voting Alx. And he day protected atlseal for how many days? But if he's scum, why protect AXEL FOLEY today? That would practically require an Axel and Grak pairing, and even I'm not going there. I totally do not see that man. No way!
Why do people keep thinking I am voting for people I am not?
HE7 seems convinced I wanted him lynched, when I've consistintly said I don't see that bandwagon.
Now you think I'm voting for Alx. I've been voting for Spoon continually for like a week now.
Do you mean voting for Dagger? Because I am still pretty confident Dagger is scum.
Or do you mean that I said Alx needs to die?
My favorite thing about people in this town is that we keep saying "would scum be dumb enough to do X?" and then when someone actually does X we say "Well, there's no way he could be scum because scum wouldn't be dumb enough to do that."
Ok, either Alx is a townie who intentionally went out of his way to defy the will of the town, OR he's scum. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and saying he's not so arrogant that he thinks he's smarter than the rest of us, and therefore, he's scum. But if you guys want to keep telling me he's more likely to be arrogant than scum, then how are you possibly going to tell me that you don't think CP would be willing to tripple vote a mason to get him lynched?
Now, granted, ZDS makes a good point. CP might have just been testing to see how many votes he had. Fair enough. But there are NO CIRCUMSTANCES where I consider it acceptable to put a vote on one of our masons right now. I don't care WHAT he's testing. Put a vote on me if he wants to test something.
Grakthis' call for Alx to die tomorrow is the scummiest thing he has done thus far. And Cyan is right that it does reek of opportunism. Grak's assertion that he is the closest thing we have to a Doc in this game is not especially reassuring either. A Doc who does not protect against Mafia kills is not much of a Doc. His decision to protect me today doesn't win him any points from me either, as I already noted. I didn't think I was an especially likely target for the SK to shoot at in the first place (due to Cyan's claim), and Grakthis' stated reason for doing so (to assure himself that I was, in fact, targetable) is weak.
In the event Hawkeye shows up town, which means someone with a demonstrated ability (day or Night) also has another ability (Cake or Flowers), he shoots up near the top of the list of people that could be.
I suppose it could still in theory be a Puzzle (oracle)/Raf. team, in as much as the Oracle hasn't demonstrated any ability besides changing players. But who would be the third?
I'm still against an attempted Day-kill on Spoon. Frankly, if Hawkeye is town and all our assumptions are wrong, I want to know it now, rather than later.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Just out of curiosity, we've seen flowers and cake sent on the same night, yes?
We've seen them both on the same night twice, supposedly. There have also been Nights with Cake but no flowers. I don't think there's been a Night with flowers where no Cake was claimed.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
For what reason would he protect you, then ?
For that to work as a Mafioso trick, he would have needed to know the SK's target. How did he pull that one out ?
Well, the hypothesis here would be that he wasn't actually intending to protect me (and he has said he wasn't btw). As a scum, he would be hoping that the SK fires on someone else. He targets me so (1) he doens't stop the SK kill, and/or (2) if he dies and shows up scum, it might make the people he protected look worse. If he's questioned about his ability at all and his choice of targets, he would use the same exaplantiaon that he gave - he was trying to "test" if I was targetable.
I'm also completely underwhelmed by him being that sadistic Doctor role too. Possible cover for "Merovingian?"
Fade, vanilla without kill ability last night,...
Without "kill" ability? Really? You saying if Fade hit a scum that scum would be unable to perform the Night-kill?
Still, might mean you aren't the Flower/Cake sender, which was my first assumption anyway. It's only when those assumptions are shown can't be correct that we have to re-visit them.
What would we then do that can't wait until tomorrow ?
By comparison, if Spoon has two lives, he can kill one more tomorrow and that can be much worse in my eyes.
Where is the basis for "Spoon has 2 lives." You keep saying this.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I forgot that the Masons can conceivably beat their -2 to lynch drawback by using the Smith Avatar. That stops the Mafia speedy-lynch scenario. They might have to do this soon if we don't hit a Mafia.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I forgot that the Masons can conceivably beat their -2 to lynch drawback by using the Smith Avatar. That stops the Mafia speedy-lynch scenario. They might have to do this soon if we don't hit a Mafia.
ZDS has expressed much venom at using the Smith avatar. I, on the otherhand, am not so much against using the avatar. I won't use it on a whim and only at the town's directing, but if it comes down to it, I'm up for sporting it.
Whoa, that's true. So we now have it confirmed that AG really did get the cake (take that, people who argued that fade was caked and I was bogusly faking the vanilla!), and that the cake doesn't apply during the day.
Because I wondered that and concluded that I would rather not the information be exposed, so rather than wait for someone to ask or you to act, I preferred to anticipate.
What answer did you expect ?
I wasn't sure, but given the thematic link between my role and your claimed role I figured it was worth asking.
Quote from ZDS »
Question to Axelrod, Alx, Abbey, whoever : Will one of you be able to (give a) kill again ?
Not that I am aware of, as it stands now I am a 1-trick pony.
Grakthis' call for Alx to die tomorrow is the scummiest thing he has done thus far. And Cyan is right that it does reek of opportunism. Grak's assertion that he is the closest thing we have to a Doc in this game is not especially reassuring either. A Doc who does not protect against Mafia kills is not much of a Doc. His decision to protect me today doesn't win him any points from me either, as I already noted. I didn't think I was an especially likely target for the SK to shoot at in the first place (due to Cyan's claim), and Grakthis' stated reason for doing so (to assure himself that I was, in fact, targetable) is weak.
Seriously, I cannot actually believe you are spouting this nonsense.
Clearly, the mafia were given a player who could dodge a day kill (ATL) and a player who could protect from daykills, AND on top of that, with a daykiller running around, the mafia had their guy:
1) Target ATL, the dude who was protected from daykills anyways
2) Target you, who claims to be a townie
Man, we'd hav to be the dumbest mafia ever.
I don't care if you think my reason is weak. I've demonstrated over and over and over again that when you traditionalists disagree wtih my decisions, 9 times out of 10 I turn out to be right. I don't know how many times you need to tell me you disagree with me before you finally accept that, hay, over the 8+ games I've played with Grakthis, he's been right about his wacky ideas a pretty good number of times.
Quote from Axelrod »
Well, the hypothesis here would be that he wasn't actually intending to protect me (and he has said he wasn't btw). As a scum, he would be hoping that the SK fires on someone else. He targets me so (1) he doens't stop the SK kill, and/or (2) if he dies and shows up scum, it might make the people he protected look worse. If he's questioned about his ability at all and his choice of targets, he would use the same exaplantiaon that he gave - he was trying to "test" if I was targetable.
What? What does this even mean?
I *did* protect you. It doesn't matter what I *intended* to do. As scum, if the SK was likely to fire on someone else, I'd protect one of my own ****ing team mates. And if I die and show up as scum, how exactly does ANYONE know who I protected?
Quote from "Axelrod" »
I'm also completely underwhelmed by him being that sadistic Doctor role too. Possible cover for "Merovingian?"
Lolololololol. If you aren't scum, you've officially dropped from my list of players I respect.
1) Sadist doctor? You mean the businessman who was not in any way a sadist and arguably wasn't even evil. He justified what he did to himself by looking at the good it did for mankind. Have you even seen the movie?
2) I CLONED YOU, jackass. When exactly did the Mirovingian start cloning people?
3) So, as the mirovingian, I have a night ability, a day ability and ANOTHER night ability that occurs on a trigger?
You're reaching Axelrod. None of this theory makes any sense.
Your apparent inability to see my point does not make you look any better, considering none of what I'm saying is particularly far out there. And considering that I'm hardly attacking you or calling for your immediate lynch, the reaction seems just a tad excessive.
You CLONED ME! Oh my goodness! Except I'm a computer program (jackass). The flavor of your ability doesn't exactly fit now, does it. Would you care to explain it better?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I don't know about Grak's role claim... yes, Merrick is a good man in the sense that he runs his business well, but no in the sense that he's trading lives for capitalism, which is fundamentally cruel. Hmm. Grak, you say you clone the target and use the clone as a healing tool?
Anyway, more role speculation. I've spoilered it simply because nobody really seems to outright care.
I don't know about the Cheshire Cat, but it's pretty clear that the Merovingian and the Kid are both mafia. I've been scanning the wikis trying to find a connection. One is that, in the Matrix Online, in the chapter "Veil of Cryptos", both the Kid and the Merovingian are working against the Cypherites organization.
Veil is broken out of the Zion prison, and as it turns out, she is the Cypherite mission controller. It is also discovered that Cryptos is the Cypherites' leader. The Merovingian makes something of a truce with the Cypherites, but worked against them as it suited his purposes. The Cypherites eventually discovered this, and their truce was broken. Meanwhile, Zion's main agenda is taking down the Merovingian, and the General's men create more powerful versions of the holy water, silver bullet, and wooden stake killcode items for killing exiles.
Meanwhile, The Kid founds a splinter group of Zionites, "E Pluribus Neo" (with his controller, Shimada). This organization is deeply loyal to Neo's vision of freeing humanity and violently opposed to the Cypherites.
This fits in with fade being Veil, as two mafia members would have a motivation to kill him.
However, there is a whole, related to The Matrix Online: there's one point where the Kid stops an assassination attempt by the Merovingian on the Oracle. However, based on what I can see, this might have occurred after Azrael finished the setup (based on when Spoon is said to have registered), so it's all possible that this was ignored. However, because I don't know when all the events I talk about below happened, the same may be true for some of it. I recommend you take it with a grain of salt. Anyway...
Based on other flavor connections, some of the other alignments make sense. Seraph, for example, is referred to by the Merovingian as his "prodigal son", the biblical allusion, which might make Seraph's alignment more reasonable in relation to the Mero.
What's interesting about TMO is that the Merovingian is actually one of the "alignments" you can choose. The other two are the Machines and Zion. However, after that it gets complicated: the Zionists are split between the Kid's group E Pluribus Neo and the Cypherites. Considering these two groups are philosophically opposed, this might be the explanation for why the Kid is mafia alongside the Merovingian. This, in turn, might be the link to people like the Architect - the town is primarily focused on preserving the Matrix, like the Cypherites, or are bluepills (like the Kid). Indeed, I found this in the TMO wiki in regards to "Veil of Cryptos":
Zion's main agenda is taking down the Merovingian
If this is true, however, then if Axelrod is really the new "One", this reflects poorly on him, and makes me reconsider automatically calling him town. It could be that he does indeed kill by offering players daykills, and it backfired when a mafia member, thinking he was town, shot him, but he was saved by Grak. I still don't understand Cyan's presence in all this, however.
Anyway, back to the connections... I don't think Invalesco is the forth mafia member, seeing as he dies in the TMO canon, but it could instead be Malphas, the leader of the Blood-drinkers, one of the Exile groups that the Merovingian brings under his control. Hell, if we want to speculate further, this player might actually want Mero dead to regain his power (a la the Mafia Usurpers in Sin City)... however, this doesn't explain how we've gotten to this point with little idea as to Mero's identity. It could be that that player is hedging their bets.
One thing that I was bothered by when considering the game's current state is Agent Smith's presence. According to the wiki, however, the remains of the Smith virus survived beyond his deletion. Interestingly, I found this in the Smith wiki:
Chronologically the first 'infection' was noted in Machine mission controller Agent Gray whose background information confirms that sometime during the timeline of the second/third films was, like so much else, overwritten by Smith.
So there's that link, I suppose. This might also provide credence to the theory that the members of the town are bluepills and supporters of the Matrix, including the Machines. Again, the most recent scenarios in TMO suggest otherwise, but I don't think Az is keeping this current with canon. Based on previous canon, then, I think these alignment assumptions are accurate.
As for other players... Rafaelk's been bothering me for a while with his roleplaying, not just because I find him annoying when acting like Ted, but also because it doesn't all add up. The only real explanation for all of this is that he is indeed Neo, in some extent, and got permission from Az to roleplay it differently (because Neo is woefully inexpressive). Of course, this calls into question whether that violates canon, but again, the TMO wiki provides a few answers. After all, Neo's body hasn't been returned to Zion, and there is a possibility that he is indeed alive:
Neo's ultimate fate has been openly called into question as Morpheus has pointed out that his remains were never returned from 01 (the Machine City) back to Zion, but at the same time the Machines have commented that they did not recycle (liquefy for re-use) his body. On an interesting note, there is a newspaper clipping found during a Zion critical mission about a 27-year-old woman named Sarah Edmontons (an anagram for "Thomas Anderson") waking up from a coma and leaving the hospital on her own. In the text, there was a note written on it asking, "Is this him?" Furthermore, on the Machines' recent set of critical missions, it turned out that Edmontons does not exist in any known database, therefore supporting the speculation that Edmontons is Neo. Although no outright comments have been made, developers have hinted that Edmontons will play a role in the future.
Whatever this means for the game is beyond me.
There are several claimed roles in this game (Truman Burbank, Dr. Merrick, the Alice in Wonderland group, Tyler Durden) that are related to works about free will and surrealism (specifically, the Truman Show, the Island, Alice in Wonderland, and Fight Club), and I think that most of these claims are real, because their relation to the flavor of the Matrix is too eerie to be either a coincidence or a clever scum plot. I kind of doubt the Queen of Hearts and Alice would be town together, but I also kind of doubt that the Cheshire Cat and the Queen would be mafia together. It's a bit of a jam.
The other issue with this is that, from my understanding of the Terminator series, there's no real connection with the Matrix universe. Then again, one might argue that Skynet and the Matrix function somewhat similarly, or at least that Skynet resembles Smith in its philosophy and aims. This is probably a point in their favor.
As for Spoon... all things considered, I wouldn't be surprised to see Morpheus or the Twins as antagonistic, based on their actions in the online game and the movies respectively. However, I've already mentioned that his alternation suggests that he's neither of these. I don't know what to make of it. I still kind of think that he's Morpheus who has an activation by using his vote in different colors.
Finally, I think Dagger is either Jue from Final Flight of the Osiris (who actually delivers messages) or one of the operators featured in the Matrix (Link, Sparks, etc. etc., who connect people literally).
I *did* protect you. It doesn't matter what I *intended* to do. As scum, if the SK was likely to fire on someone else, I'd protect one of my own ****ing team mates.
This is totally the best point in your favour.
1) Sadist doctor? You mean the businessman who was not in any way a sadist and arguably wasn't even evil. He justified what he did to himself by looking at the good it did for mankind. Have you even seen the movie?
I don't know about him, but dude. I do not get involved with terrible movies. There are better ways to see Scarlett Johansson in tight shirts. What a babe.
2) I CLONED YOU, jackass. When exactly did the Mirovingian start cloning people?
You cried foul when Axel Foley was shot because you said he shouldn't have been there to be shot, dude. Not because there should have been a clone of him waiting there. That came later.
Bonus points for the intentional misspelling of Merovingian, though, that's a totally awesome tactic. You can't be it if you can't spell it, yeah?
3) So, as the mirovingian, I have a night ability, a day ability and ANOTHER night ability that occurs on a trigger?
We still only have your word for the 3rd one, dude.
You're reaching Axelrod.
Yes way!
None of this theory makes any sense.
Bogus!
Your play so far has seemed rockin' to the Duke of Ted, and protecting Axelrod was a most excellent move, but you're working way too hard to claim to be 100% clear when you aren't, and that comes across as bogus. The only people 100% clear are ZDS, Vampyr, and (if his ability works the way he says it does) cp. Xyre is the closest thing to it without, you know, being it.
Note on my spoiler: The one connection that doesn't align with what I posited is that the Oracle and the Architect, who are diametrically opposed in intentions, are on the same side. While the Architect is focused on ensuring the stability of the Matrix, the Oracle is interested in providing humans the opportunity to disconnect from the Matrix (in line with Morpheus' intentions). This is a strange paradigm, and it makes my theory feel less secure (because we're counting five mafia if indeed the Oracle is completely mafia, and that would require that atlseal/the Cheshire Cat be the "bitten and drained" killer). Ah well. This is something to ask Charmmaster about, and perhaps Puzzle as well.
Note part 2: Okay, so there is one way that everything might work.
While the Oracle was able to guide the actions of the humans who left the Matrix through prophecy, it was the Architect who programmed The One that would fulfill this prophecy. The One was made carrying not only the source code of the Matrix "Prime Program" which gave him his amazing powers over the Matrix, but also with a profound attachment to humanity that would later motivate him to fulfill the prophecies being spread by the Oracle. Every time the free humans had grown strong enough to start threatening machine hegemony, The One would be born into the Matrix.
As the prophecies were fulfilled by The One, the machines would begin building an army to destroy Zion. Under the guidance of the Oracle, The One would find his way to the Source (the machine mainframe), convinced that his actions there would end the war on behalf of the humans.
The Architect, however, resides in a room that lies on the path to the Source, so the One would invariably encounter him along the way. During this encounter, The Architect would reveal his influence over the preceding events and present The One with a choice:
He may return to the Source at which point the Matrix source code would be reinserted into the program, allowing for the system to reboot. Zion is still destroyed and people are still trapped in the Matrix, but The One would be allowed to select from the Matrix twenty-three individuals (seven males and sixteen females) to be freed so they could found a new Zion.
He may refuse to cooperate and return to the Matrix. Refusal would lead to a system crash, killing all of the inhabitants of the Matrix. With the destruction of Zion, this would spell extinction for the human species.
The machinations of The Architect & The Oracle were quite successful in maintaining the status quo, at least initially; until Neo, all incarnations of The One had chosen to cooperate with the Machines in order to preserve humanity.
It's complicated, and it doesn't quite explain the fact that the Oracle and the Architect seem to be opposites, but it provides the greatest connection between the two and solidifies the idea that the town's purpose is the perpetuation of the Matrix. This also solves the "too many mafia" problem.
Rafk and Axel seem inconsistent with each other, a point which I'm trying to work through. After all, one can't be the One and the other be the "new One". In addition, if Rafk is Neo, why wouldn't he counterclaim Axel when he said he was the new One?
Either way, based on my flavor assessments, I doubt that Neo is town. I also now doubt that Axel is town (although I don't know what Cyan's win condition is as a result), for a simple reason:
What if we've been misjudging my role this entire time? So far, we've doubted the code-modification-as-untargetability claim because Axel said he's been targeted. What if this makes perfect sense? What if (and this will sound crazy) Axel is the SK, and thus because he has the spoon, requires two more votes but still isn't untargetable?
This doesn't explain Rafk, who I assume is Neo, but it doesn't clear him in my mind, either.
Anyway, I want to see Spoon dead before pursuing this theory, although I'd like to hear the town's (and Axelrod's) perspective.
Connor isn't the 'new' one. He was the original One.
Hmm. This makes a modicum of sense. In the Architect's description of the Matrix, he emphasizes that there were five "Ones" before Neo. It probably devastates the canon, but it makes me feel that him being an SK is more pertinent. Then again, I have no idea where you fit in, so it's still a bit of a blur.
Cyan, can you remind me what your win condition is?
Considering that there are 2 (actually more) Terminators running around in that franchise, I'm curious why you would think that claim clears you 100%?
If you were assigned to "protect" this role, wouldn't it make a certain amount of sense for a counter-role to be in the game that wants to "terminate" him? And then, couldn't you just as easily be that counter role?
Or there's no counter role, just you, out to kill him? I'm just speculating, but you were the one who seemed to think the claim was 100% solid.
I don't know, it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense as a scum gambit either. Unless John Conner is a complete fabrication of yours.
Also: Unvote: LJustus. Lynching him may not be the thing to do after all today.
I have been going back and forth in my mind about this. Here is my conclusion. Cyan has been hovering too close to a lynch for too long. He's said everything he can say and that's not good enough for most of the people voting him. Additionally, there are people like Loran hovering in the wings just waiting to pounce on him as soon as everyone tells him it's okay.
Under these circumstances, Cyan's lynch would seem inevitable. Either we are going to get deadlined, or someone's just going to bite the bullet in order to get the day over with.
I believe he's a mis-lynch. Now, I would argue against the lynch of anyone that I thought was a townie, but most times I don't have any actual information to back up the argument. It's just my opinion. In this case, however, I've got more. So the question is, is telling what I know in order to stop the lynch worth the risk of revealing said information to the scum? Considering the scum may very well have cued into this already, I believe it is.
I am John Connor, Townie Mentor.
Everything Cyan is saying is accurate. He knows my role. He has been given my backstory. He doesn't know my ability.
I do not see a realistic set of circumstances under which he's lying. Yes, it occurred to me when I got the role that there might be Terminators running around in this game, but I had no idea of the specifics. It occurred to me that someone might be "out" to get me specifically. But I don't actually think that anymore. At worst, there's possibly a Neutral role running around with a "Hit List" of sorts. But I do not believe such a role would be given information about my origins and my purpose. Not the way Cyan has described them. Would this hypothetical Hit-Man be given this kind of unnecessary background information for everyone on his "Hit List?" What a strange role PM that would be.
I was not told anything about Cyan in my role PM. But his presense and his claim makes sense to me.
I would now appreciate it if everyone would cut out the totally pointless flavor arguments and lay off my bodyguard.
Considering that there are 2 (actually more) Terminators running around in that franchise, I'm curious why you would think that claim clears you 100%?
If you were assigned to "protect" this role, wouldn't it make a certain amount of sense for a counter-role to be in the game that wants to "terminate" him? And then, couldn't you just as easily be that counter role?
Or there's no counter role, just you, out to kill him? I'm just speculating, but you were the one who seemed to think the claim was 100% solid.
I don't know, it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense as a scum gambit either. Unless John Conner is a complete fabrication of yours.
Also: Unvote: LJustus. Lynching him may not be the thing to do after all today.
I have been going back and forth in my mind about this. Here is my conclusion. Cyan has been hovering too close to a lynch for too long. He's said everything he can say and that's not good enough for most of the people voting him. Additionally, there are people like Loran hovering in the wings just waiting to pounce on him as soon as everyone tells him it's okay.
Under these circumstances, Cyan's lynch would seem inevitable. Either we are going to get deadlined, or someone's just going to bite the bullet in order to get the day over with.
I believe he's a mis-lynch. Now, I would argue against the lynch of anyone that I thought was a townie, but most times I don't have any actual information to back up the argument. It's just my opinion. In this case, however, I've got more. So the question is, is telling what I know in order to stop the lynch worth the risk of revealing said information to the scum? Considering the scum may very well have cued into this already, I believe it is.
I am John Connor, Townie Mentor.
Everything Cyan is saying is accurate. He knows my role. He has been given my backstory. He doesn't know my ability.
I do not see a realistic set of circumstances under which he's lying. Yes, it occurred to me when I got the role that there might be Terminators running around in this game, but I had no idea of the specifics. It occurred to me that someone might be "out" to get me specifically. But I don't actually think that anymore. At worst, there's possibly a Neutral role running around with a "Hit List" of sorts. But I do not believe such a role would be given information about my origins and my purpose. Not the way Cyan has described them. Would this hypothetical Hit-Man be given this kind of unnecessary background information for everyone on his "Hit List?" What a strange role PM that would be.
I was not told anything about Cyan in my role PM. But his presense and his claim makes sense to me.
I would now appreciate it if everyone would cut out the totally pointless flavor arguments and lay off my bodyguard.
Thank you.
although maybe I'm just jumping on details here and there's something I missed.
Cyan, dude- I know Grak kind of went off the deep end with voting Alx. And he day protected atlseal for how many days? But if he's scum, why protect AXEL FOLEY today? That would practically require an Axel and Grak pairing, and even I'm not going there. I totally do not see that man. No way!
Why do people keep thinking I am voting for people I am not?
HE7 seems convinced I wanted him lynched, when I've consistintly said I don't see that bandwagon.
Now you think I'm voting for Alx. I've been voting for Spoon continually for like a week now.
Do you mean voting for Dagger? Because I am still pretty confident Dagger is scum.
Or do you mean that I said Alx needs to die?
My favorite thing about people in this town is that we keep saying "would scum be dumb enough to do X?" and then when someone actually does X we say "Well, there's no way he could be scum because scum wouldn't be dumb enough to do that."
Ok, either Alx is a townie who intentionally went out of his way to defy the will of the town, OR he's scum. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and saying he's not so arrogant that he thinks he's smarter than the rest of us, and therefore, he's scum. But if you guys want to keep telling me he's more likely to be arrogant than scum, then how are you possibly going to tell me that you don't think CP would be willing to tripple vote a mason to get him lynched?
Now, granted, ZDS makes a good point. CP might have just been testing to see how many votes he had. Fair enough. But there are NO CIRCUMSTANCES where I consider it acceptable to put a vote on one of our masons right now. I don't care WHAT he's testing. Put a vote on me if he wants to test something.
There are a several of interesting things in this post by Grak. I want to point out two in this here.
First, I find it very interesting that Grak makes no response what so ever to the comment Raf makes that Grak protected Altseal for several days. He completely ignores this direct implication that he protected a know mafia from being lynched.
Second, Grak does, however, react strongly to Raf possibly saying Grak voted for Alx and he again makes a point to say, for the second time that I think he wanted me lynched but that he never did.
This is untrue.
Yes, he had made a comment that he did not see the bandwagon but he was also on the other side and spoke openly of having me lynched several times as well.
actually, you appear to be digging your way out of being linked to my lynch or day killing as best as you can.
So tell me, if I don't seem scummy to you, then how is it Cyan, ZDS, Grak, Vampyr, Raf, CP, Puzzle knows who else, do?
Or at least they think I an the optimum lynch or daykill target.
Some of then have spent nearly an entire game posting over and over how scummy I look and in this latest bandwagon have practically had hysterial fits trying to get people to vote for me.
Wait, what? How did I end up on this list?
I'm not voting for you, and never have.
Grak, are you saying you have never posted that I should be considered as a good lynch target?
Uh... not that I remember.
Ok, here you say you don’t remember doing it and several posts later you directly reiterate one of you posts that you didn’t see the bandwagon. This shows that for some reason you felt it necessary to go back and look at the actual posts you made on this subject. Since you did go back and look at the posts you should have seen these posts where you clearly do say you think I should be lynched.
Re: the HE7 responses - My issue is that in his response to the PBPA he essentially keeps explaining all of his roleplaying and breadcrumbing. My question is, why was he breadcrumbing so much? I mean, the RPing we know. But why such blatant breadcrumbs? Ok, we get it, you were showing us your role. But WHY?
Interesting how you start out directing your questions from the town to me. Are you asking me why I bread crumbed or are you asking the rest of the game for speculation as to why I bread crumbed? I will assume you are and I will direct my questions to you Grak. Why does any player bread crumb? How often do scum players bread crumb? How often do scum players, from the get go, start the game bread crumbing and how often do they do it in a manner you have called blatant? If you are half the player I think you are you already know the answers to these questions and that should be enough to answer your questions.
If your behavior were typical scum behavior, I wouldn't have posed it as a question to the town. I'd have made it an attack and I'd have voted you.
The reason I didn't ask YOU is because I know what your answer will be, regardless of your alignment.
HE's role is extremely plausible for scum, but behaviorally I had no issues with him till about the last few game days. It seems like he should have tripped my radar earlier.
.
.
.
.
We have two claimed masons, and if we don't have a cop, the only way to verify them is to kill one of them. The way vampyr claimed though strikes me as VERY honest. Like, why risk yourself there when ZDS was in real danger of going down?
Puzzle's behavior when he first jumped in was very aggressive and very naughty, but he cleaned up after that. But now he's conveniently dodging answering our questions and we have some issues with Charm_Master apparently. These need to be dealt with.
I have very little on Alx except that he had a string of pro-town posts and behaviors that stood up to scrutiny, so he's not high on my list.
I guess at this point I'd be happy with a mass claim and/or seeing one of Puzzle, Spoon, HE or Abbey die.
Ok. What does this mean? Grak lies or deliberately misrepresents what should be a minor point about his having said that he wanted me lynched. And he does this in an overreaction type post.
Why?
I do know that for a great deal of the game, when I was posting in a manner that earned me not one but two serious bandwagon attempts to lynch me Grak seemed to either ignore me or actually support me. This is exactly how mafia usually react to me posting like I have this game. They never want to get rid of a prime target townie who has made himself a possible lynch target and topic of discussion.
Unvote Puzzle
Grak, any comment on your selective memory?
As I said before. We have mafia in the group of players that have been assumed to be near cleared for much of the game. In my mind that is Axelrod, Cyan, ZDS, Vampyr, Grak and Puzzle.
I’m tending to group them into two groups because of how their claims link. Axelrod, Cyan, ZDS, Vampyr and Grak, Puzzle, ZDS, Vampyr.
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RELAPSED MAFIA JUNKIE
W – 33, L – 19, Broke Games - 9
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
It's complicated, and it doesn't quite explain the fact that the Oracle and the Architect seem to be opposites, but it provides the greatest connection between the two and solidifies the idea that the town's purpose is the perpetuation of the Matrix. This also solves the "too many mafia" problem.
To help you with the who Merovingian/Oracle/Architect problem you have researched yourself into:
Quote from wikipedia »
While the Oracle (as her name suggests) is endowed with foresight, the Merovingian is endowed with hindsight. Or restated, the Oracle's gift is inductive reasoning, whereas the Merovingian's strength is deductive reasoning. This explains why the Merovingian's worldview is based upon causality and the reason that throughout The Matrix Reloaded and The Matrix Revolutions he is interested in why or how events unfold. Like all sentient programs within the Matrix (and the Machines in the real world), the Merovingian is a determinist, which is the basis for his dissertation on causality being the nature of the universe. Due to the conflicting nature between himself and the Oracle, the Merovingian decries her as a "fortune teller"; yet reveals in the third film that he secretly longs for "the eyes of the Oracle", which he believes would allow him fantastic powers of precognition.
The Merovingian believes that the person who holds the most power is the person who understands why the current state is what it is (or how events unfolded to their current state). His deductive ability or hindsight ability also afflicts him with hindsight bias and so his personality is thus arrogant and purports to be all-knowing.
Your apparent inability to see my point does not make you look any better, considering none of what I'm saying is particularly far out there. And considering that I'm hardly attacking you or calling for your immediate lynch, the reaction seems just a tad excessive.
You CLONED ME! Oh my goodness! Except I'm a computer program (jackass). The flavor of your ability doesn't exactly fit now, does it. Would you care to explain it better?
Yeah, maybe you should go back to the first game day and read the fact that I actually said several times that my ability requires the person to have a body, and did it or would it work on someone who had no physical body.
Then I posted, in the game thread, that it worked on even people who were only computer programs.
So, in conclusion, I already discussed, addressed and dismissed your point ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE GAME, OPENLY, IN THE GAME THREAD. Jackass.
I don't know about Grak's role claim... yes, Merrick is a good man in the sense that he runs his business well, but no in the sense that he's trading lives for capitalism, which is fundamentally cruel. Hmm. Grak, you say you clone the target and use the clone as a healing tool?
No. That is not my day ability. My day ability is that I take the target back to the island and hide them away and they cannot be killed.
Remember how after the correction scene I said that it didn't QUITE fit what I expected but that it would work?
There are a several of interesting things in this post by Grak. I want to point out two in this here.
First, I find it very interesting that Grak makes no response what so ever to the comment Raf makes that Grak protected Altseal for several days. He completely ignores this direct implication that he protected a know mafia from being lynched.
Uh.... Wow. HE, are you even reading the game thread?
1) I told the town I protected ATL and It old the town on which days. There is no need to "imply" anything. I did protect ATL.
2) I didn't protect him from a lynch. As evidenced by the fact that he WAS lynched.
Or do you mean "protected" in the sense of I said "don't lynch him!" Yeah. I did. As Cyan noted a while back, I defended him as a claimed power role who proved out an ability. I was not gonna lynch that until there was a good reason to.
Quote from HE »
Second, Grak does, however, react strongly to Raf possibly saying Grak voted for Alx and he again makes a point to say, for the second time that I think he wanted me lynched but that he never did.
This is untrue.
Yeah, I react to things that are untrue and ignore things that are acknowledged, discussed and KNOWN to be true. Amazing, I know.
Quote from HE7 »
Yes, he had made a comment that he did not see the bandwagon but he was also on the other side and spoke openly of having me lynched several times as well.
I made SEVERAL comments that I did not see the bandwagon, and I spoke openly of having you lynched for the sake of MOVING THE GAME ALONG.
Quote from HE7 »
Ok, here you say you don’t remember doing it and several posts later you directly reiterate one of you posts that you didn’t see the bandwagon. This shows that for some reason you felt it necessary to go back and look at the actual posts you made on this subject. Since you did go back and look at the posts you should have seen these posts where you clearly do say you think I should be lynched.
Ok. What does this mean? Grak lies or deliberately misrepresents what should be a minor point about his having said that he wanted me lynched. And he does this in an overreaction type post.
WOW. If this were MT, here is the part where I would be severly questioning your intellegince. But since it's not, I will direct EVERYONE on here to read the posts HE7 is quoting and see if in ANY OF THOSE I call him scum or accuse him of being scum. Or, if in any of those there is any indication that I went back and read anything. Or that I clearly said that I think HE7 should be lynched. Because, none of those things are true. They are all fabrications. Blatant fabrications. Like, not even good ones.
Quote from HE7 »
Why?
I do know that for a great deal of the game, when I was posting in a manner that earned me not one but two serious bandwagon attempts to lynch me Grak seemed to either ignore me or actually support me. This is exactly how mafia usually react to me posting like I have this game. They never want to get rid of a prime target townie who has made himself a possible lynch target and topic of discussion.
You have posted no content, done nothing of interest and done nothing to draw ire from me. In other words, you haven't done anything I'd call scummy. You will note, that Axelrod's reaction to you has been IDENTICAL to mine. Go back and look at his comments about you in regards to you as a day kill target on Friday. Note that my comments were long before his, but we both had the same conclusions.
So, are we back to the Axelrod and Grakthis as team mates theory again?
Quote from HE7 »
Grak, any comment on your selective memory?
As anyone with a 3rd grade reading comprehension will see, my memory is not selective. What I said is EXACTLY what I told you. I posted REPEATEDLY that I did not agree with the bandwagon on you, then IN YOUR OWN QUOTES THAT YOU PROVIDED FOR US I say that I am willing to see you die if that's what it takes to keep things moving because the game had stangated so badly. Then after that, AS YOU EVEN ADMIT, I once again reiterate that I don't like the wagon on you because you're not standing out as scummy to me.
So, now I ask you... why would you quote a bunch of posts that directly contradict the conclusion you attempt to draw from them? Are you just hoping people won't read what you quoted?
Dudes, has AG shot Hawkeye yet or are we still waiting for something?
In the meantime, I bring up this most excellent point because Grakthis is busting Hawkeye's bad arguments while bogusly ignoring me.
I was waiting until tomorrow night. I wanted to give everyone a chance to check in (I think everyone has though) and also give a weekday day to that end. I will probably submit it targeting HE7 tomorrow at some point in the afternoon(EST) if no one objects.
Can you give me ANY logical reason why CP would put a vote on someone who is 4 to lynch? ANY reason that doesn't amount to him being scum?
Because I'm required to? Is that a good reason?
I stated in my original claim that I MUST vote when voted. My votees were the people who voted me, merely because they weren't going to be lynched anytime soon, and I had to put the votes somewhere.
I can put them somewhere else if you like, though. Vote Grakthis, vote Grakthis. Assuming I still have the votes by then, I'll unvote after the next vote count.
I'm fine with AG killing HE7 whenever. Hopefully by tomorrow, a good chunk of the controversy will have become clearer.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
BTW, Puzzle, I'd appreciate it if you could cut it out with the 3-card Monty with your vote. I'd almost think you were trying to get me modkilled or something.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Dudes, has AG shot Hawkeye yet or are we still waiting for something?
In the meantime, I bring up this most excellent point because Grakthis is busting Hawkeye's bad arguments while bogusly ignoring me.
I answered this as much as I am willing to. My day ability is not SUPPOSED to involve cloning, but because of the circumstances, it did. But also, because of circumstances, you got to see pieces of both natures... I either left a cloned Axelrod behind to die, or I left a cloned Axelrod behind after the original died. But either way, I demonstrated cloning and taking people away to somewhere else on a helicopter.
It doesn't matter if I wa SUPPOSED to clone Axelrod with my day ability. The simple fact is, that I *did*. Which is all you need to know for the purpose of establishing my claimed role.
And to prove a point, I have some links for you....
As you can see, all of this is consistent with what I have roleclaimed thus far and with what the moderator has shown you in our day scene.
So, in conclusion, no u :mad:.
Quote from Raf »
Your play so far has seemed rockin' to the Duke of Ted, and protecting Axelrod was a most excellent move, but you're working way too hard to claim to be 100% clear when you aren't, and that comes across as bogus. The only people 100% clear are ZDS, Vampyr, and (if his ability works the way he says it does) cp. Xyre is the closest thing to it without, you know, being it.
I don't think I'm 100% cleared and I have not argued as such. I *have* argued againt people making accusations based in things that make no logical sense. Like "Grak might be a mafia day-doc who targeted a townie Axelrod." If you think I'm scum, you pretty much have to think Axelrod is too.
I stated in my original claim that I MUST vote when voted. My votees were the people who voted me, merely because they weren't going to be lynched anytime soon, and I had to put the votes somewhere.
Missed that. My bad.
Quote from CP »
I can put them somewhere else if you like, though. Vote Grakthis, vote Grakthis. Assuming I still have the votes by then, I'll unvote after the next vote count.
I suspect I am the only person that haven't name-claim yet. I am going to do so now. Yes, I am a Matrix character. No, I am not Jue or any of the other ship operators.
I am Persephone, Townie Socialite.
I attempted to hint at the word "socialize" within my first few introduction messages to the others, as a softclaim of sort I guess.
Since we still have a daykill from AG, I say just use it on either HE or Spoon first and see the results for discussion, rather than just saying "if this" or "if that".
I think CP has yet to Name Claim also. I might have missed it, of course.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I think CP has yet to Name Claim also. I might have missed it, of course.
Nope, that's everyone, Dagger was the last. Here's my list:
2. Spoon [Morpheus (supposedly but thought to be The Twins), ?] 3298
5. Rafaelk [Sarah Edmonton, ?] 3394(name)/3463 (vanillaness)
6. Axelrod [John Connor, Townie Mentor] 1359
8. Hawkeye7 [Truman Burbank, avatar changer] 2445
11. Grakthis [Dr. Merrick from The Island, Daykill protector plus unknown night ability] 3052/3536
12. Alx2 [Tyler Durden, Townie Revealer] 2925
14. Cyan [T-800,Bodyguard for John Connor] 992
15. Xyre [Spoon Boy, 2 shot untargetable giver] 1690
16. ZDS [Choi, Mason] 312
18. Vampyr [Dujor, Mason] 1586
20. Carrion Pigeons [Queen of Hearts, limited multivoter] 3453
22. Dagger [Persephone, Townie Socialite] 3687
23. Revolving (currently Puzzle) [Oracle, townie shapeshifter] 1895
CM [Morpheus, Town Dream Lord.] PM
I didn't include AG on this as we're not sure what the deal with him is. Anytime AG could come back and shoot HE would be good that way spoon can be lynched and this day can move on.
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Current Soul Collector count: 184
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Anyway, Spoon is definitely scum, and a scum lynch is a scum lynch. If he's not the SK, we'll find the SK tomorrow. There really aren't that many candidates that qualify as SK possibilities.
Now we just wait(eagerly in my case) to find out about Hawkeye.
Also, Puzzle, I would like you to clarify something for us. CM claimed initially to be the Oracle, then told ZDS and Vampyr privately that he is really Morpheus. Are you, in fact, The Oracle, or are you some other role as well?
Kill sent in on Hawkeye7.
@Vampyr: My name and role have been mod confirmed. To save you the search, I am Seraph, Teflon Townie.
We all know what your name and title is. And since you're mod confirmed, there's no need to keep a record of that. My statement of uncertainty was in regards to how much longer you'll be in the game. The rest of us do not know that.
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Current Soul Collector count: 184
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
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Anyway, go do what Alx should have done and shoot the heinous Hawkeye, dude. And then cp can hammer Spoon. That would be... excellent.
Before you go and do anything, how about answering some questions?
First, how long do you stay around? Second, does using the vig power cut short your staying time? Lastly, you said "thanks to Alx," is this in reference to dying in general or did you have an option of abilites based on your killer's alignment?
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
I am worried for the town: look at who's left:
1. Spoon
2. Rafaelk
3. Axelrod
4. Hawkeye7
5. Grakthis
6. Alx2
7. Cyan
8. Xyre
9. ZDS
10. Vampyr
11. Carrion Pigeons
12. Dagger
13. Puzzle
If there are 3 Mafia still, even if Hawkeye is one of them, then the only other player who hasn't demonstrated any kind of ability at all is Raf. Basically, Hawkeye/Raf would need to be the Flower/Cake senders respectively for what has happened to make sense.
Hawkeye, Raf., what's your theory on who's doing what if it isn't you guys? That someone is using 2 separate abilities at Night? Who would that be anyway?
Puzzle, why are you unvoting CP? Isn't he supposed to hammer Spoon with three votes? You changing your mind at the last minute to try and day-kill Spoon? I do not think Spoon would have claimed immunity to the first action against him if he had a lynch immunity.
I don't think Spoon has 2 lives, I think he was telling the truth about being immune to one night action every night. I guess we can shoot him first and then lynch HE.
Something else, also. I'm not convinced that Grakthis is town at all anymore. I know everyone wants to write him off because he can day-protect, but considering that this ability stops A)SK kills and b)town kills but not C)mafia kills, I don't see what makes it inherently town at all. And his claimed role is nothing inspiring, so that doesn't do anything for him either. Plus, his reaction to Alx NKing AG is absurd. You can practically feel the scummy opportunism emanating from his latest posts. And he's added CP to the end of the 'people we should list according to Grakthis', even though CP is almost surely town, and even Grakthis earlier stated exactly this same sentiment, IIRC. Honestly, I almost wish the SK didn't die today, because Grakthis would have to be his next target, and that would clear up alot.
it's 6 to lynch. CP has 3 votes once people started voting for him. The masons are minus-2. You do the math here. He only needs ONE other person to lynch a mason.
Can you give me ANY logical reason why CP would put a vote on someone who is 4 to lynch? ANY reason that doesn't amount to him being scum?
Revealing all of my ability doesn't give us any greater chance of using it positively.
I will say this much... look at my claimed role. What would I do to a person that would take away their drawbacks? How would I *fix* someone?
You're serious? In a town with no other claimed docs, you're going to doubt the only one? The one who protected someone you are 100% convinced is a townie?
Hawkeye must be the heinous flowers and/or bogus cake guy.
Spoon may well be the other one. Or someone not on the list is doing it. Or you or Grak or cp or someone else without a demonstrated day ability. Because dude, I know it's not me.
Cyan, dude- I know Grak kind of went off the deep end with voting Alx. And he day protected atlseal for how many days? But if he's scum, why protect AXEL FOLEY today? That would practically require an Axel and Grak pairing, and even I'm not going there. I totally do not see that man. No way!
I've seen scum do far far dumber things.
Let's say Spoon and CP are both mafia and spoon is a daykiller (and there is no SK, just daykilling mafia).
They combine to speedlynch a mason today, giving them another nightkill and another daykill. That's a minimum of 3 dead townies before we even get a shot at lynching one of them.
And that's assuming CP can't convince us that he was just testing something, or that he didn't mean to lynch Vampyre or that it wasn't all a misunderstanding.
I've seen mafia members do MUCH MUCH MUCH dumber things than that.
Why do people keep thinking I am voting for people I am not?
HE7 seems convinced I wanted him lynched, when I've consistintly said I don't see that bandwagon.
Now you think I'm voting for Alx. I've been voting for Spoon continually for like a week now.
Do you mean voting for Dagger? Because I am still pretty confident Dagger is scum.
Or do you mean that I said Alx needs to die?
My favorite thing about people in this town is that we keep saying "would scum be dumb enough to do X?" and then when someone actually does X we say "Well, there's no way he could be scum because scum wouldn't be dumb enough to do that."
Ok, either Alx is a townie who intentionally went out of his way to defy the will of the town, OR he's scum. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and saying he's not so arrogant that he thinks he's smarter than the rest of us, and therefore, he's scum. But if you guys want to keep telling me he's more likely to be arrogant than scum, then how are you possibly going to tell me that you don't think CP would be willing to tripple vote a mason to get him lynched?
Now, granted, ZDS makes a good point. CP might have just been testing to see how many votes he had. Fair enough. But there are NO CIRCUMSTANCES where I consider it acceptable to put a vote on one of our masons right now. I don't care WHAT he's testing. Put a vote on me if he wants to test something.
In the event Hawkeye shows up town, which means someone with a demonstrated ability (day or Night) also has another ability (Cake or Flowers), he shoots up near the top of the list of people that could be.
I suppose it could still in theory be a Puzzle (oracle)/Raf. team, in as much as the Oracle hasn't demonstrated any ability besides changing players. But who would be the third?
I'm still against an attempted Day-kill on Spoon. Frankly, if Hawkeye is town and all our assumptions are wrong, I want to know it now, rather than later.
It was a reference to dying in general. I knew that it was the ability that I gain when I died.
I find this quote quite interesting Puzzle. What possessed you to post it?
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We've seen them both on the same night twice, supposedly. There have also been Nights with Cake but no flowers. I don't think there's been a Night with flowers where no Cake was claimed.
Well, the hypothesis here would be that he wasn't actually intending to protect me (and he has said he wasn't btw). As a scum, he would be hoping that the SK fires on someone else. He targets me so (1) he doens't stop the SK kill, and/or (2) if he dies and shows up scum, it might make the people he protected look worse. If he's questioned about his ability at all and his choice of targets, he would use the same exaplantiaon that he gave - he was trying to "test" if I was targetable.
I'm also completely underwhelmed by him being that sadistic Doctor role too. Possible cover for "Merovingian?"
Without "kill" ability? Really? You saying if Fade hit a scum that scum would be unable to perform the Night-kill?
Still, might mean you aren't the Flower/Cake sender, which was my first assumption anyway. It's only when those assumptions are shown can't be correct that we have to re-visit them.
Where is the basis for "Spoon has 2 lives." You keep saying this.
ZDS has expressed much venom at using the Smith avatar. I, on the otherhand, am not so much against using the avatar. I won't use it on a whim and only at the town's directing, but if it comes down to it, I'm up for sporting it.
I would agree to not have anyone this question is directed at respond. Anyone answering only risks painting a target on themselves for the scum.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
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Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
I wasn't sure, but given the thematic link between my role and your claimed role I figured it was worth asking.
Not that I am aware of, as it stands now I am a 1-trick pony.
Seriously, I cannot actually believe you are spouting this nonsense.
Clearly, the mafia were given a player who could dodge a day kill (ATL) and a player who could protect from daykills, AND on top of that, with a daykiller running around, the mafia had their guy:
1) Target ATL, the dude who was protected from daykills anyways
2) Target you, who claims to be a townie
Man, we'd hav to be the dumbest mafia ever.
I don't care if you think my reason is weak. I've demonstrated over and over and over again that when you traditionalists disagree wtih my decisions, 9 times out of 10 I turn out to be right. I don't know how many times you need to tell me you disagree with me before you finally accept that, hay, over the 8+ games I've played with Grakthis, he's been right about his wacky ideas a pretty good number of times.
What? What does this even mean?
I *did* protect you. It doesn't matter what I *intended* to do. As scum, if the SK was likely to fire on someone else, I'd protect one of my own ****ing team mates. And if I die and show up as scum, how exactly does ANYONE know who I protected?
Lolololololol. If you aren't scum, you've officially dropped from my list of players I respect.
1) Sadist doctor? You mean the businessman who was not in any way a sadist and arguably wasn't even evil. He justified what he did to himself by looking at the good it did for mankind. Have you even seen the movie?
2) I CLONED YOU, jackass. When exactly did the Mirovingian start cloning people?
3) So, as the mirovingian, I have a night ability, a day ability and ANOTHER night ability that occurs on a trigger?
You're reaching Axelrod. None of this theory makes any sense.
You CLONED ME! Oh my goodness! Except I'm a computer program (jackass). The flavor of your ability doesn't exactly fit now, does it. Would you care to explain it better?
Anyway, more role speculation. I've spoilered it simply because nobody really seems to outright care.
This fits in with fade being Veil, as two mafia members would have a motivation to kill him.
However, there is a whole, related to The Matrix Online: there's one point where the Kid stops an assassination attempt by the Merovingian on the Oracle. However, based on what I can see, this might have occurred after Azrael finished the setup (based on when Spoon is said to have registered), so it's all possible that this was ignored. However, because I don't know when all the events I talk about below happened, the same may be true for some of it. I recommend you take it with a grain of salt. Anyway...
Based on other flavor connections, some of the other alignments make sense. Seraph, for example, is referred to by the Merovingian as his "prodigal son", the biblical allusion, which might make Seraph's alignment more reasonable in relation to the Mero.
What's interesting about TMO is that the Merovingian is actually one of the "alignments" you can choose. The other two are the Machines and Zion. However, after that it gets complicated: the Zionists are split between the Kid's group E Pluribus Neo and the Cypherites. Considering these two groups are philosophically opposed, this might be the explanation for why the Kid is mafia alongside the Merovingian. This, in turn, might be the link to people like the Architect - the town is primarily focused on preserving the Matrix, like the Cypherites, or are bluepills (like the Kid). Indeed, I found this in the TMO wiki in regards to "Veil of Cryptos":
If this is true, however, then if Axelrod is really the new "One", this reflects poorly on him, and makes me reconsider automatically calling him town. It could be that he does indeed kill by offering players daykills, and it backfired when a mafia member, thinking he was town, shot him, but he was saved by Grak. I still don't understand Cyan's presence in all this, however.
Anyway, back to the connections... I don't think Invalesco is the forth mafia member, seeing as he dies in the TMO canon, but it could instead be Malphas, the leader of the Blood-drinkers, one of the Exile groups that the Merovingian brings under his control. Hell, if we want to speculate further, this player might actually want Mero dead to regain his power (a la the Mafia Usurpers in Sin City)... however, this doesn't explain how we've gotten to this point with little idea as to Mero's identity. It could be that that player is hedging their bets.
One thing that I was bothered by when considering the game's current state is Agent Smith's presence. According to the wiki, however, the remains of the Smith virus survived beyond his deletion. Interestingly, I found this in the Smith wiki:
So there's that link, I suppose. This might also provide credence to the theory that the members of the town are bluepills and supporters of the Matrix, including the Machines. Again, the most recent scenarios in TMO suggest otherwise, but I don't think Az is keeping this current with canon. Based on previous canon, then, I think these alignment assumptions are accurate.
As for other players... Rafaelk's been bothering me for a while with his roleplaying, not just because I find him annoying when acting like Ted, but also because it doesn't all add up. The only real explanation for all of this is that he is indeed Neo, in some extent, and got permission from Az to roleplay it differently (because Neo is woefully inexpressive). Of course, this calls into question whether that violates canon, but again, the TMO wiki provides a few answers. After all, Neo's body hasn't been returned to Zion, and there is a possibility that he is indeed alive:
Whatever this means for the game is beyond me.
There are several claimed roles in this game (Truman Burbank, Dr. Merrick, the Alice in Wonderland group, Tyler Durden) that are related to works about free will and surrealism (specifically, the Truman Show, the Island, Alice in Wonderland, and Fight Club), and I think that most of these claims are real, because their relation to the flavor of the Matrix is too eerie to be either a coincidence or a clever scum plot. I kind of doubt the Queen of Hearts and Alice would be town together, but I also kind of doubt that the Cheshire Cat and the Queen would be mafia together. It's a bit of a jam.
The other issue with this is that, from my understanding of the Terminator series, there's no real connection with the Matrix universe. Then again, one might argue that Skynet and the Matrix function somewhat similarly, or at least that Skynet resembles Smith in its philosophy and aims. This is probably a point in their favor.
As for Spoon... all things considered, I wouldn't be surprised to see Morpheus or the Twins as antagonistic, based on their actions in the online game and the movies respectively. However, I've already mentioned that his alternation suggests that he's neither of these. I don't know what to make of it. I still kind of think that he's Morpheus who has an activation by using his vote in different colors.
Finally, I think Dagger is either Jue from Final Flight of the Osiris (who actually delivers messages) or one of the operators featured in the Matrix (Link, Sparks, etc. etc., who connect people literally).
That's all I have. I'm pretty much cleared out.
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"We" ?
This is totally the best point in your favour.
I don't know about him, but dude. I do not get involved with terrible movies. There are better ways to see Scarlett Johansson in tight shirts. What a babe.
You cried foul when Axel Foley was shot because you said he shouldn't have been there to be shot, dude. Not because there should have been a clone of him waiting there. That came later.
Bonus points for the intentional misspelling of Merovingian, though, that's a totally awesome tactic. You can't be it if you can't spell it, yeah?
We still only have your word for the 3rd one, dude.
Yes way!
Bogus!
Your play so far has seemed rockin' to the Duke of Ted, and protecting Axelrod was a most excellent move, but you're working way too hard to claim to be 100% clear when you aren't, and that comes across as bogus. The only people 100% clear are ZDS, Vampyr, and (if his ability works the way he says it does) cp. Xyre is the closest thing to it without, you know, being it.
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
It's complicated, and it doesn't quite explain the fact that the Oracle and the Architect seem to be opposites, but it provides the greatest connection between the two and solidifies the idea that the town's purpose is the perpetuation of the Matrix. This also solves the "too many mafia" problem.
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Rafk and Axel seem inconsistent with each other, a point which I'm trying to work through. After all, one can't be the One and the other be the "new One". In addition, if Rafk is Neo, why wouldn't he counterclaim Axel when he said he was the new One?
Either way, based on my flavor assessments, I doubt that Neo is town. I also now doubt that Axel is town (although I don't know what Cyan's win condition is as a result), for a simple reason:
What if we've been misjudging my role this entire time? So far, we've doubted the code-modification-as-untargetability claim because Axel said he's been targeted. What if this makes perfect sense? What if (and this will sound crazy) Axel is the SK, and thus because he has the spoon, requires two more votes but still isn't untargetable?
This doesn't explain Rafk, who I assume is Neo, but it doesn't clear him in my mind, either.
Anyway, I want to see Spoon dead before pursuing this theory, although I'd like to hear the town's (and Axelrod's) perspective.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Hmm. This makes a modicum of sense. In the Architect's description of the Matrix, he emphasizes that there were five "Ones" before Neo. It probably devastates the canon, but it makes me feel that him being an SK is more pertinent. Then again, I have no idea where you fit in, so it's still a bit of a blur.
Cyan, can you remind me what your win condition is?
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
seems to conflict with this
although maybe I'm just jumping on details here and there's something I missed.
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
There are a several of interesting things in this post by Grak. I want to point out two in this here.
First, I find it very interesting that Grak makes no response what so ever to the comment Raf makes that Grak protected Altseal for several days. He completely ignores this direct implication that he protected a know mafia from being lynched.
Second, Grak does, however, react strongly to Raf possibly saying Grak voted for Alx and he again makes a point to say, for the second time that I think he wanted me lynched but that he never did.
This is untrue.
Yes, he had made a comment that he did not see the bandwagon but he was also on the other side and spoke openly of having me lynched several times as well.
Ok, here you say you don’t remember doing it and several posts later you directly reiterate one of you posts that you didn’t see the bandwagon. This shows that for some reason you felt it necessary to go back and look at the actual posts you made on this subject. Since you did go back and look at the posts you should have seen these posts where you clearly do say you think I should be lynched.
Ok. What does this mean? Grak lies or deliberately misrepresents what should be a minor point about his having said that he wanted me lynched. And he does this in an overreaction type post.
Why?
I do know that for a great deal of the game, when I was posting in a manner that earned me not one but two serious bandwagon attempts to lynch me Grak seemed to either ignore me or actually support me. This is exactly how mafia usually react to me posting like I have this game. They never want to get rid of a prime target townie who has made himself a possible lynch target and topic of discussion.
Unvote Puzzle
Grak, any comment on your selective memory?
As I said before. We have mafia in the group of players that have been assumed to be near cleared for much of the game. In my mind that is Axelrod, Cyan, ZDS, Vampyr, Grak and Puzzle.
I’m tending to group them into two groups because of how their claims link. Axelrod, Cyan, ZDS, Vampyr and Grak, Puzzle, ZDS, Vampyr.
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To help you with the who Merovingian/Oracle/Architect problem you have researched yourself into:
Yeah, maybe you should go back to the first game day and read the fact that I actually said several times that my ability requires the person to have a body, and did it or would it work on someone who had no physical body.
Then I posted, in the game thread, that it worked on even people who were only computer programs.
So, in conclusion, I already discussed, addressed and dismissed your point ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE GAME, OPENLY, IN THE GAME THREAD. Jackass.
No. That is not my day ability. My day ability is that I take the target back to the island and hide them away and they cannot be killed.
Remember how after the correction scene I said that it didn't QUITE fit what I expected but that it would work?
Uh.... Wow. HE, are you even reading the game thread?
1) I told the town I protected ATL and It old the town on which days. There is no need to "imply" anything. I did protect ATL.
2) I didn't protect him from a lynch. As evidenced by the fact that he WAS lynched.
Or do you mean "protected" in the sense of I said "don't lynch him!" Yeah. I did. As Cyan noted a while back, I defended him as a claimed power role who proved out an ability. I was not gonna lynch that until there was a good reason to.
Yeah, I react to things that are untrue and ignore things that are acknowledged, discussed and KNOWN to be true. Amazing, I know.
I made SEVERAL comments that I did not see the bandwagon, and I spoke openly of having you lynched for the sake of MOVING THE GAME ALONG.
WOW. If this were MT, here is the part where I would be severly questioning your intellegince. But since it's not, I will direct EVERYONE on here to read the posts HE7 is quoting and see if in ANY OF THOSE I call him scum or accuse him of being scum. Or, if in any of those there is any indication that I went back and read anything. Or that I clearly said that I think HE7 should be lynched. Because, none of those things are true. They are all fabrications. Blatant fabrications. Like, not even good ones.
You have posted no content, done nothing of interest and done nothing to draw ire from me. In other words, you haven't done anything I'd call scummy. You will note, that Axelrod's reaction to you has been IDENTICAL to mine. Go back and look at his comments about you in regards to you as a day kill target on Friday. Note that my comments were long before his, but we both had the same conclusions.
So, are we back to the Axelrod and Grakthis as team mates theory again?
As anyone with a 3rd grade reading comprehension will see, my memory is not selective. What I said is EXACTLY what I told you. I posted REPEATEDLY that I did not agree with the bandwagon on you, then IN YOUR OWN QUOTES THAT YOU PROVIDED FOR US I say that I am willing to see you die if that's what it takes to keep things moving because the game had stangated so badly. Then after that, AS YOU EVEN ADMIT, I once again reiterate that I don't like the wagon on you because you're not standing out as scummy to me.
So, now I ask you... why would you quote a bunch of posts that directly contradict the conclusion you attempt to draw from them? Are you just hoping people won't read what you quoted?
In the meantime, I bring up this most excellent point because Grakthis is busting Hawkeye's bad arguments while bogusly ignoring me.
I was waiting until tomorrow night. I wanted to give everyone a chance to check in (I think everyone has though) and also give a weekday day to that end. I will probably submit it targeting HE7 tomorrow at some point in the afternoon(EST) if no one objects.
Because I'm required to? Is that a good reason?
I stated in my original claim that I MUST vote when voted. My votees were the people who voted me, merely because they weren't going to be lynched anytime soon, and I had to put the votes somewhere.
I can put them somewhere else if you like, though. Vote Grakthis, vote Grakthis. Assuming I still have the votes by then, I'll unvote after the next vote count.
I'm fine with AG killing HE7 whenever. Hopefully by tomorrow, a good chunk of the controversy will have become clearer.
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I answered this as much as I am willing to. My day ability is not SUPPOSED to involve cloning, but because of the circumstances, it did. But also, because of circumstances, you got to see pieces of both natures... I either left a cloned Axelrod behind to die, or I left a cloned Axelrod behind after the original died. But either way, I demonstrated cloning and taking people away to somewhere else on a helicopter.
It doesn't matter if I wa SUPPOSED to clone Axelrod with my day ability. The simple fact is, that I *did*. Which is all you need to know for the purpose of establishing my claimed role.
And to prove a point, I have some links for you....
I discuss the fact that the flavor of atleast one of my abilities requiring the user to have a body
I discuss the role of "locations" in atleast one of my abilities.
and here, I get an answer back from the mod, and I elaborate further on both issues
As you can see, all of this is consistent with what I have roleclaimed thus far and with what the moderator has shown you in our day scene.
So, in conclusion, no u :mad:.
I don't think I'm 100% cleared and I have not argued as such. I *have* argued againt people making accusations based in things that make no logical sense. Like "Grak might be a mafia day-doc who targeted a townie Axelrod." If you think I'm scum, you pretty much have to think Axelrod is too.
Missed that. My bad.
Much better.
I am Persephone, Townie Socialite.
I attempted to hint at the word "socialize" within my first few introduction messages to the others, as a softclaim of sort I guess.
Since we still have a daykill from AG, I say just use it on either HE or Spoon first and see the results for discussion, rather than just saying "if this" or "if that".
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
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Nope, that's everyone, Dagger was the last. Here's my list:
2. Spoon [Morpheus (supposedly but thought to be The Twins), ?] 3298
5. Rafaelk [Sarah Edmonton, ?] 3394(name)/3463 (vanillaness)
6. Axelrod [John Connor, Townie Mentor] 1359
8. Hawkeye7 [Truman Burbank, avatar changer] 2445
11. Grakthis [Dr. Merrick from The Island, Daykill protector plus unknown night ability] 3052/3536
12. Alx2 [Tyler Durden, Townie Revealer] 2925
14. Cyan [T-800,Bodyguard for John Connor] 992
15. Xyre [Spoon Boy, 2 shot untargetable giver] 1690
16. ZDS [Choi, Mason] 312
18. Vampyr [Dujor, Mason] 1586
20. Carrion Pigeons [Queen of Hearts, limited multivoter] 3453
22. Dagger [Persephone, Townie Socialite] 3687
23. Revolving (currently Puzzle) [Oracle, townie shapeshifter] 1895
CM [Morpheus, Town Dream Lord.] PM
I didn't include AG on this as we're not sure what the deal with him is. Anytime AG could come back and shoot HE would be good that way spoon can be lynched and this day can move on.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
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Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
@Vampyr: My name and role have been mod confirmed. To save you the search, I am Seraph, Teflon Townie.
Anyway, Spoon is definitely scum, and a scum lynch is a scum lynch. If he's not the SK, we'll find the SK tomorrow. There really aren't that many candidates that qualify as SK possibilities.
Now we just wait(eagerly in my case) to find out about Hawkeye.
Also, Puzzle, I would like you to clarify something for us. CM claimed initially to be the Oracle, then told ZDS and Vampyr privately that he is really Morpheus. Are you, in fact, The Oracle, or are you some other role as well?
We all know what your name and title is. And since you're mod confirmed, there's no need to keep a record of that. My statement of uncertainty was in regards to how much longer you'll be in the game. The rest of us do not know that.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia