Anyways, vote alx2. I support ZDS : how could telling us the investigated players could harm the town or help scum ?
And how could telling us the investigated players help the town or harm the scums? Granted, I would be interested to know as well but that is not the correct reason to go about and dig for it.
As for the Oracle thing, I just find it unlikely that such a role with so many revolving players could be a scummy role and I thought that Grak was flying off the handle accusing Puzzle of being scum for attacking him, and was actually wondering whether he remembered Puzzle was the one taking over the Oracle.
I'll finish reading the rest after my supper, and bath...
I don't like what's going on ; people seem to be forgetting about Hawkeye, when he clearly is a good option for today's lynch.
Anyways, vote alx2. I support ZDS : how could telling us the investigated players could harm the town or help scum ?
So, you think Hawkeye is a good option for a lynch, and that's why you try to organize a counterwagon against ... someone who's voting Hawkeye? That makes sense.
As for naming my targets, I can think of several ways it can be disadvantageous. Since some people apparently need everything spelled out for them, here's one:
Let's assume, for example, that I name Spoon as one of my targets, and let's further assume he's actually scum. (I only picked Spoon as an example, because he's a player I'm not attacking at this point).
The mafia will of course put 2+2 together and realize that my ability is useless, possibly even misleading, as far as uncovering scums goes. Free info for the scum, while not helping the town at all; Neither myself not any other townie will know my ability is useless or misleading - only the mafia will.
Basically, scums would be able to cross-reference my targets with my suspicions with their own knowledge of who's scum and who's not to obtain knowledge the town cannot.
WHEN I WILL HAVE SOMETHING USEFUL TO CLAIM, I WILL DO SO.
Nor does it on me and Vampyr. However, based on the wording of the drawback, it existing among several players is obviousness incarnated. The lynch drawback is part of a subtheme in this game, I believe ; which can explain why it is not always obvious why someone should have it (you can only find so many suitable flavor justifications for it — if you even bother to find at least one).
In short, my inside knowledge of the question leads me to believe atlseal is saying the truth here. Plus, remember the timing of his reaction to my "pre-claim".
Oh, I'm fine with the -2 to lynch thing mechanically. What I'm not fine with is the part of this drawback that involves the smilie. It's inelegant and unnecessary. I just don't think Az would design a role like that.
I read AG as implying that atlseal got the name from a scum buddy with an investigation power, although I'm not sure how that would work. Unless AG wants to tell us that the scum have daytalk or something.
I wonder... On the previous days, votes were accumulating a lot more quicker. (even though players were dropping them after the claims). I know that people will say that they don't find Hawkeye or Loran suspicious, and that is why they do not vote him, but on day 1, there were scum voting and "helping us" to lynch ; today, they are not (or so I think), from which I conclude that Loran (and probably Hawkeye) are both scum. We just need to focus on one or the other.
If this is all you have to say, then don't bother to ask us to get back on the hawkeye wagon again. Just because a wagon "is not moving very fast" does not mean that Hawkeye is scum. That's just craplogic to the max, imo.
I'll note here that Jeff was not the only person who sees Hawk as a good lynch, only that the way he went on about it and the reason he gave was slightly ridiculous.
I will certainly not answer this. Just the fact that I know it would harm should be enough to you.
Quote from Puzzle »
2. Where's your case on HE7 being a good lynch ?
I have none. I know it isn't great but I base it on my feelings ; I believed he was a good lynch yesterday, and I do not matter how weak or strong my argumentation was : I still feel it this way.
Hawkeye is the best lynch we have right now, he's just getting the benefit of the doubt because people aren't putting effort into lynching him even if they're voting for hi. And then there is El Jefe, whose actions in general, and particularly towards Hawkeye, make him look like scum, and Hawkeye less so. That reminds me, Unvote, Vote Hawkeye
I will certainly not answer this. Just the fact that I know it would harm should be enough to you.
I have none. I know it isn't great but I base it on my feelings ; I believed he was a good lynch yesterday, and I do not matter how weak or strong my argumentation was : I still feel it this way.
I think it's worth noting that Hawkeye completely and utterly ignored the wagon on Loran, except for this post, which reads to me as trying to subtlely backup Loran's claim.
Just judging by game mechanics, I'd say that it's impossible for atlseal to be scum. Even putting that aside, none of his content lately strikes me as off in the slightest. Whereas, with Hawkeye, all of his content strikes me as scummy. So, that would be why I think Hawkeye is better to look at than atlseal(who I don't think is worth looking at at all).
A quick check suggests only 4 people actually voted you (it felt like more tbh) and since you're baiting the extra vote I assume you don't have something like "-3 to lynch" going on you. vote Hawkeye then.
Raf, Raf, Raf, you did not answer my questions, Raf.
I approve of this push on Hawkeye. I am very tired of his use of the roleplaying stuff to avoid giving serious answers, and I think the time has come.
Giving serious answers to……….What?
Did someone ask a question?
Raf, are you sure you don’t want to commit yourself a little here?
I mean at least Fade voted for me.
You sure you don’t want to throw a vote on that push you so approve of?
I see you voted though. Very good.
It makes it look a little better to vote for me at this point then to appear like you are just trying to push a wagon without a real case or adding any substance to it.
You know, just like you tried to do.
To answer your question, it does not matter.
Anyone who wants to vote for me is more then welcome. I just hope that they will have the good taste to give substantive reasons or a case when they do. You know, go on record and actually post something we can actually work with.
Raf, how about you, you know, posting some reasons or better yet a real case?
Can someone detail the case against HE7 a bit more ? I have noticed some serious lack of content in many of his posts but that's it so far (not meaning it's not enough).
I'd like RafK in particular to answer him ; I don't like how he didn't on last page.
I have none. I know it isn't great but I base it on my feelings ; I believed he was a good lynch yesterday, and I do not matter how weak or strong my argumentation was : I still feel it this way.
(Dramatically acts out pulling himself up from under the sink, as if climbing a mountain cliff.
Looks directly into the mirror.)
(Gasps!) “If I’m lynched before I reach the end of the game, you will use me as an alternative source of food. “
Hawkeye is the best lynch we have right now, he's just getting the benefit of the doubt because people aren't putting effort into lynching him even if they're voting for hi. And then there is El Jefe, whose actions in general, and particularly towards Hawkeye, make him look like scum, and Hawkeye less so. That reminds me, Unvote, Vote Hawkeye
“Eat me, dammit. That's an order. “
“Maybe just my love handles. I have love handles.....big ones. “
Cyan, Raf, Fade, Xyre and anyone else who wants to bandwagon me, Please post the case for it.
I’ve asked for it, repeatedly, but to no avail. Puzzle has also asked for it, repeatedly, and the only response was a gut feeling by J-Effe .
What more do I need to do here?
If I’m the best choice for a lynch today then folks, grow a backbone, step up, cast a vote and post why. Let’s have people go on record and discuss their reasons. Otherwise, don’t be surprised if the bandwagon doesn’t go anywhere and my response to your unsupported votes will be the same as before.
"Somebody help me! I'm being spontaneous!"
You sure you're not being suspicious?
WELLLLLLLL, that's hardly for me to say. I'll leave that to my admirers to decide.
Oh Cyan..............
Remember, you can't get any further away before you start coming back.
But only if you want to find it, the truth that is.
Also, for any of you scum who think a unsubstantiated vote for me is a good place to hide, while other targets get discussed and scrutinized by others. You’re wrong. That will most certainly be examined and when I am revealed to be town it will count against you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
RELAPSED MAFIA JUNKIE
W – 33, L – 19, Broke Games - 9
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
My reason for voting you is mainly because your actions regarding DYH and the avatars made no sense, unless you have some very weird role, in which case I'd like to hear what it is. Others have mentioned a possible connection to loran as well, which is an additional reason. But mostly, I think you've gone on long enough causing confusion, and it's about time we clear things up before this game gets any more muddled.
Either you're scum trying to distract the town, or you're a baffling townie (as you were in Star Trek). I, for one, would like to get more information to figure that out, rather than just letting you continue.
Dagger: Besides the obvious suspiciousness, I have an idea about what he does, although I'm probably wrong and need to do a reread to confirm my thought. And it could just be a coincidence. So the post should really be "Vote Hawkeye because he's rather scummy and we want pressure".
I have a question that, if the impacted people could answer, would be very helpful. For those of you that have "suddenly" felt the need to roleplay, were consequences potentially dire if you didn't?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
I have 2 questions at the moment, one is for the Mod. and I'm awaiting an answer.
The other is this: Has anyone else received flowers this game? I received some flowers on a past night (not saying which one). No one else has mentioned anything like this happening to them, and I want to know if this is an isolated incident or not.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
First post was RP character establishment. Certainly trying to set himself as a character unaware of the existence of the Matrix, but a character from a "real world" setting (e.g. he'd heard of Keanu Reeves and the Matrix movies) not Alice in Wonderland. Does ask a question about whether we should move or not (as Hvir pointed out, and we now know that Hvir was presumably telling the truth about the location thing).
Second post- includes a giant picture, more RP, more talk about moving around and finding a way out of the mall, votes carrion pigeons and says the second most suspicious is a surprise he'll be keeping an eye on.
3: ++ for praising my good shot on Xyre (ok, so I'm biased). More seriously, asks after examples of non-town multivoters (e.g. looking at cp) and is against 2nd mason claiming.
4: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=2086979&postcount=524
Very obviously drops a breadcrumb I haven't been able to get, although I haven't really tried much yet. I tend to distrust obvious breadcrumbing. Townies don't want people to notice their breadcrumbs.
5: Switches vote to Cyan citing Loran- not that he mentions this again- and citing Grakthis' PBPA.
6: Cheshire Cat joke following atlseal's claim. 6 posts with the thread over 600 posts, and precious little content.
7: RP reaction to arimnaes dying. Asks cp whether he finds cyan or atlseal scummier. Doesn't give his own opinion on this.
8: Breadcrumbs a Jim Carrey character (for anyone who thought the references only showed up later) with the "All righty then!". Suggests that arimnaes was killed to throw suspicion onto atlseal and suggests there's an obvious culprit for that. I assume he means Cyan- feel free to correct me HE7- but this is a massive stretch.
9,10, 11: Continues the above theme. This goes from stretch to outright distrust. Also suggests that people could have abilities that get more powerful if they roleplay more.
12: Fluff.
13: Suspicion on fade and Cyan.
14: Another picture. Accuses Alx of fencesitting.
15, 16, 17: Questioning of Cyan (including an unvote).
18: Rejects Grakthis' belief that LJ was too "stupid" to claim that role as scum and suggests LJ's claim could be a scum gambit.
19: Puts up LJ as the "default" lynch- warning, warning, danger Will Robinson- and nominates fade, cp and Cyan as his 3 preferred investigations for LJ.
20: Returns to Cyan and votes him again. Cyan points out after this that Hawkeye never gave any reasons for voting him to start with (this is true, other than that Hawkeye said he agreed with Grakthis) or to unvote him earlier (also true).
21: Continues against Cyan. However, other than barning Grakthis and badgering Cyan about not answering Hawkeye's questioning (which was basically variations on the theme of "my question is ANSWER ME"), there's nothing here.
22: Asks Axel why he voted for LJ. Fair enough.
23: Attacks Axel's reasoning for voting LJ. This is also fair enough, Axel's "point" is completely pants and just an excuse to not lynch Cyan for my money.
24, 25: OMGUS on Axelrod for calling Hawkeye scummy. Accuses cp of fence sitting. Rips into Axelrod's defence of Cyan (fair enough again, but I think Cyan is a neutral rather than mafia- so whatever; and if Hawkeye is SK, it really doesn't matter what Cyan is besides an easy target) and Cyan's defence of himself.
26: More fencing with cp and Cyan's response to Hawkeye's allegations. This is "you suck!" "no, you suck!" level work more than it is logic or argument.
27: Rejects Cyan's assertion that HE7 voted him for no reasons (well, it isn't NO reason). Now gives his reasons again as:
Quote from Hawkeye7 to Cyan »
1) you were, and have played this game differently than your usual manner.
2) I state that I found many of your poses suspicious .
3) I found the majority of Grakthis' PBPA to have merit.
For such a long running argument, this is very shallow. Against that, I too was supcious of Cyan as were many others- but for more reasons than this!
28: Not a game post (this was sympathies to DYH, incidentally- there's no negative connotation from this not being a game post).
29: Cyan has claimed and now it's quite rightfully open season on Cyan's claim.
30: Game balance argument against Cyan's role (comparing HE7's bodyguard role there to Cyan's claim here).
31: Rejects Cyan's claim that this is just gaming the mod- as an aside, obviously I agree with HE7 about all this. I'm more concerned about the leadup- I think HE7 was stretching around for targets here and then found an easy one.
32: Asks DYH why he thinks Cyan is town.
33: Unvotes Cyan after Axel's claim (as an aside, I find this slightly puzzling as I thought Axelrod's claim was obvious long before that and if you didn't agree with Axelrod's defence THEN, why start now, when he's even admitted his role PM didn't mention Cyan at all?).
34: ...and then points out all the difficulties with clearing Cyan based on Axel's claim but doesn't revote Cyan. And fatefully responds to Hvir's comment about locations, asks why he didn't hint at it before, and points out that he (Hawkeye) had already mentioned moving locations in the past.
This is kind of where it gets interesting, but it's 12:45am and I have to work in the morning. Will finish later.
Raf, this PBPA is a pain to read. At least give post numbers, and links would be good too.
@Axel-No, I have not received or sent flowers to anyone.
@ZDS: Yeah, I know. This week has been pretty busy between classes starting and my sister having a baby. Just no time to do much fun stuff.
Having read some more, I'm still not convinced about HE. Yes his avatar thing with DYH was odd and it's something I mostly ignored thinking it was a minor thing. So I'm not willing to jump on his wagon as it's the only point I see people bringing up against him.
Right now, atlseal is whom I'd most like to vote for. I disliked his claim from the get go and him not mentioning that he'd been vanilla'ed is lying by omission. Plus the one result he gave could just as easily been faked. So I'm not sold on him.
But before I vote, I'd like a Vote Count to see where things currently stand.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Soul Collector count: 184
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Dagger and ZDS: I've lost track of where everything is going in this game. Looking back, I think I'm comfortable with the vote, but I'd forgotten I had it in the first place.
ZDS:
I find the continuation of this discussion unproductive. Regardless of what my answers to your questions will be, they will provide info to the scum while not helping the town at all.
I will hopefully have more to alleviate your concerns in a couple of days.
The Hawkeye situation does seem somewhat reminiscent of what happened in Star Trek, where his general stubbornness in the face of what he perceived to be a poor case against him got him lynched as town. I would not like the same thing to happen again.
So I have to say this to Hawkeye: at the point we are at right now it does not matter how good the "case" against you is. You are where you are, right or wrong. And you simply have got to accept some responsibility for getting yourself here by posting so cryptically for the entire game. If you are merely role-playing - cut it out. If you have got some mod-enforced posting restriction, by all means, keep going, but for heaven's sake tell us what it is.
If you have a mod.-enforced posting restriction which you are not allowed to claim, then tell us what you can. Surely there is something you can claim?
If you can't tell us anything and you continue like this with the poo-pooing of everyone who votes you and repeated mooning of people, you are getting lynched. It's as simple as that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Vote: atlseal now that a vote count has been posted.
@Axel regarding the HE situation: I understand what you're saying regarding his posting style, but I have to say, you stating that HE will be lynched strictly for continuing his posting style really rubbed me the wrong way.
If you're willing to lead the lynch on HE for only his posting style, I'd have to say that that effort could have been better spent elsewhere on someone who is acting scummy rather than annoying.
Besides, if HE has a mod enforced RP restriction that he can't talk about, what is he going to tell you about it? His role?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Soul Collector count: 184
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
I don't think HE is being pursued for his posting style at all. Personally, I'm pursuing him because, on multiple occasions on Day 1, he stated that he was voting me for not reading/misrepresenting his posts, but since then, he has been guilty of both of these things multiple times. Then, he lynched Hvir because he Hvir didn't respond to HE's hints about location. In reality, Hvir did respond to them, just apparently not in the fashion that HE deemed appropriate. Plus, IIRC, he feigned ignorance at being the lynch vote there. Then the whole fiasco with DYH happened.
Or, instead of just stopping, he can explain why he did it in the first place. How he figured that such distractions would help the town, etc. This seems particularly relevant since, the last time Hawkeye roleplayed, he turned up as scum.
Raf, this PBPA is a pain to read. At least give post numbers, and links would be good too.
It's a raw work in progress. I really didn't realise how long it was going to take me to even get thar far. I was planning on working up an argument against Hawkeye, not a PBPA, but I figured I'd give my notes up to that point rather than stay quiet in the meantime.
In any event, all you need to do to match up the posts to the order is do a search on the thread for Hawkeye's posts.
@Grak: sorry, giving you the answer compltely slipped my mind. According to Az's answer, my act of reformatting (dissapearing) was based off of being targeted, not being killed. So, I take this to mean that even if I was protected by either a cop or bodyguard, I still would have disappeared.
Also, no flowers.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Also, atl is now claiming that he is effectively immune to investigations as well. Given that his rolename is approximately 100% known and that the cop is dead, I'll grant that this doesn't make him look nearly as bad as if we had a reason to think we still had an investigator, but I still think this is a strong-ish point against him: he's either covering his bases by hoping to prevent a backup cop of some kind from targeting him, or else he's telling the truth and he's basically a godfather.
We need to step up to the real bandwagon of the day. Vote atl.
As for HE7, Raf might have something, but so far all I've seen is people voting him because he's condescending and unpleasant and impossible to understand. I'll admit that I wouldn't mind seeing him gone for those reasons, but it would be a waste of a lynch, inasmuch as we have a much better target in atl.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Also, atl is now claiming that he is effectively immune to investigations as well.
In all seriousness though, I'm not claiming that at all. My system was designed to protect me from one mallicious intentioned action (read: intent to kill). In my last post, I was trying to get across that the dissapearance was the result of the kill targeting, not being killed itself.
Sorry, I was in a rush when typing the last post and had a few typos, one of which (which probably caused your confusion) was that "cop" in there should have been "doc" when I was explaining that I still would have dissapeared if targeted for death even if I was being protected at the time.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
The world around you goes hazy, as if you've been dropped into a television set with a broken antenna. The startled voices of those around you, the glass surfaces of the room, colors, shapes, even sensation; everything has been warped. Opening your eyes for more than a few seconds at a time results in a splitting headache, nausea, and gut-wrenching vertigo.
Vote Count 2.9
???
For the remainder of the day all votes must be submitted by PM to count towards the lynch. The official vote count has been temporarily disabled. Preexisting votes have been wiped clean.
Well, considering that, I think our only real course of action is to lynch atlseal. We can't go after someone unclaimed, for risk of not knowing what the real vote count against them is. Well..I guess we could keep an 'unofficial' vote count, except that we'd be relying on the honor system. Atlseal's play hasn't been spectactular...if he's lying, he is most likely scum..if he's telling the truth, lynching him isn't much of a loss. I think we might as well just lynch him.
My reason for voting you is mainly because your actions regarding DYH and the avatars made no sense, unless you have some very weird role, in which case I'd like to hear what it is. Others have mentioned a possible connection to loran as well, which is an additional reason. But mostly, I think you've gone on long enough causing confusion, and it's about time we clear things up before this game gets any more muddled.
Either you're scum trying to distract the town, or you're a baffling townie (as you were in Star Trek). I, for one, would like to get more information to figure that out, rather than just letting you continue.
Thank you Fade for responding to my request for people who are voting for me to at least post why they are doing so. I’ll try to clarify exactly what I was, and still am, thinking.
My interest in DYH stemmed primarily with his changing of his avatar and also to his sudden role playing that coincided with his avatar change. The role playing by itself was not all that concerning as there have been some other players who have also role played this game and it was specifically mentioned as a possible requirement by Azrael prior to the game.
This is the first post by DYH that drew my attention as it was the first made by DYH that did several things.
We let one of THOSE in here? What is WRONG with you people? Haven't you seen what those things do!? Thinking there's no role-play aspect, too. Go figure; damn thing doesn't have any feelings. Just kills everything in its way. Probably would shoot that Alx fellow, too, just for disagreeing with him if we weren't all here to see it. I think he's on to some things, too. Bastard machine.
First, it was the first post by DYH after he had changed his avatar. I am almost completely certain of this, but if it is actually not the actual first it is very, very close to it.
Second, it is also the first that DYH began his role playing.
Third, this post a the first for the very last line, where DYH voted for me.
“Vote: Hawkeye7 Did you do this to me? “
Where the heck did that come from I thought. Up to that point DYH and I had very little interaction and no direct confrontations in the game. Why did he vote for me and why did he accuse me of doing anything to him?
This post came after the Kraj episode. An episode that you, Fade featured prominently in. You had also been made to change your avatar in response to Kraj trying to recruit you I believe. You presented yourself as turning on Kraj and choiring to side with the town rather then trying to win with an exposed Kraj lead cult. With Kraj gone I would have thought that you would have been a better choice for DYH to chose to ask if someone had done something to him that would force him to change his avatar and to role play. But DYH did not do that, he asked me. He did not have any investigation ability so why would he choose me? Because I role play? I doubt it. When do I not role play? I have role-played when I have had a restriction and when I haven’t had a restriction. DYH has been in plenty of games with me and seem me do it many times before. If I had been the only player in the game doing it I would think that a more likely possibility but as I was not and since this was also the post that he changed his avatar I don’t this that was it either.
It seemed to me that DYH knew something about my role and my ability and since he did not have any investigation abilities I began to think that he was mafia and that he had learned of my ability from a mafia investigator or that he was recruited and that there was another cult member who was an investigator.
These were the questions that prompted me to begin to question DYH regarding this change of appearance. I tried to ask questions that would allow him to answer me but to also protect any potentially valuable information if this change was a result of his actual role. He did not respond to me and I continued to question him.
At this point I PM’d Azrael to as a few questions regarding my role ability. One of the answers along with the exact wording of Rule #7 lead me to the apparently faulty assumption that a player could not simply decide to change their avatar in the game without “Moderator Authorization” This seemed to fit with the possibility that the cult forced players to use the Agent Smith Avatar at some point or perhaps errantly. This is why I asked DYH about his use of the Agent Smith avatar initially.
We let one of THOSE in here? What is WRONG with you people? Haven't you seen what those things do!? Thinking there's no role-play aspect, too. Go figure; damn thing doesn't have any feelings. Just kills everything in its way. Probably would shoot that Alx fellow, too, just for disagreeing with him if we weren't all here to see it. I think he's on to some things, too. Bastard machine.
Voluntary, yes. The reasoning should be obvious; I'll demonstrate after a vote count.
Oh... oh dear me. Look at all the bodies. Must there always be such senseless violence?
He already knows who I am - how could he forget? Might as well tell everyone.
yARGH!
I had a really good post all set to post just now until I hit preview and saw that you could change it back.
Personally, I think your real avatar looks much better. Question though, why did you wait to change your avatar till this AM?
Along the same lines, did CP ever demonstrate if he can still multi-vote?
This post of mine got no response from DYH so I tried again.
My voice is no longer my own- my vote should not be counted. Anyone can change their avatar, Hawkeye.
@Vamp: I am Peter Silberman.
@others: I have no knowledge of why I'm here, only that I have bad memories of the metal killing machines and random events that keep playing in my head. Make it stop!
Now, whether he was responding directly to me or not, I took it as such. As I have already explained a couple of times I had already been speculating on the possibility that DYH could be somehow controlled, or the content of his posts, by another player. This post with the line “my voice is no longer my own” could easily have been a very clever way of DYH trying to tell us this without violating that control.
At this point Axelrod was questioning DYH regarding his role playing and DYH chose to respond to him directly in these posts:
How come you just started role-playing this today?
Quote from Disrupt_Your_Hymn »
We let one of THOSE in here? What is WRONG with you people? Haven't you seen what those things do!? Thinking there's no role-play aspect, too. Go figure; damn thing doesn't have any feelings. Just kills everything in its way. Probably would shoot that Alx fellow, too, just for disagreeing with him if we weren't all here to see it. I think he's on to some things, too. Bastard machine.
Quote from Disrupt_Your_Hymn »
I'd rather not feel the consequences of failing to portray my true self today.
Underlined for emphasis. I'm trying to avoid any more torture, I've seen enough in my day.
Sorry, call me dense but I still don't get it. Unless you are saying that you have been somehow compelled to role-play today, unlike other days, and furthermore you are not allowed to simply explain this fact.
I don't think you're dense at all. It's hard to focus these days, you know. I keep seeing these visions over and over... it's like... deja vu. It's all so terrible. Such violence, such bloodshed. Today, however, is different from other days. Today I feel compelled to share my horrors with you all - to help you feel the fear that I do. I don't know who is responsible, I only know that I must.
At this point I tried to ask him again, more directly about the avatar as I was suspecting that he was either recruited or possible scum that had slipped up.
My voice is no longer my own- my vote should not be counted. Anyone can change their avatar, Hawkeye.
@Vamp: I am Peter Silberman.
@others: I have no knowledge of why I'm here, only that I have bad memories of the metal killing machines and random events that keep playing in my head. Make it stop!
DYH, are you quite sure you don’t want to rethink the answers you gave in this post?
Are you the person who actually answered the questions ?
Or are you just the person who posted the answers to those questions?
Can you tell us how to make it stop?
Can you tell us how to get out of here?
If you can’t tell us, is there someone else who knows?
That actually brings us back to one of the unanswered Cyan/Axelrod questions of day 1 which they avoided answering. Are they here because the machines put John Connor here as a new "One", or are they here to fight machines?
Cyan claimed both at various times, and I was never happy with the contradiction. This would appear to be the opportune time to resolve the issue, especially since Axelrod is so interested in why DYH is also here (and since frankly neither explanation fits Silberman being here).
to save some time, Raf, can you point out the post in which Cyan posted both these positions?
Again DYH chose not to answer me directly and makes this post.
Originally Posted by RafaelK
I read DYH as saying he was happy to take whatever penalty he gets for not role-playing previously, but now he isn't.
And here I thought I was the one who was confused in this violent realm. No, this is not right at all. This effect just happened to me last night and as far as I know applies only to the current day.
Hawkeye appears to be even more confused than you, though. I don't understand at all what he's getting at with those bizarre questions.
At this point I am fairly sure that I was right about DYH being scum or recruited and continue to try to clarify what is going on with DYH by asking more directly about the avatar change.
And here I thought I was the one who was confused in this violent realm. No, this is not right at all. This effect just happened to me last night and as far as I know applies only to the current day.
Hawkeye appears to be even more confused than you, though. I don't understand at all what he's getting at with those bizarre questions.
It is not necessary for you to understand all of what I'm getting at with those questions.
Please just answer the questions.
This post finally succeeds in getting a direct response from DYH in this post
Your vested interest in me is disconcerting. You hadn't made one comment about me that I can recall until I mysteriously ended up with this restriction and voted you outright today. Frankly, I think you did this to me and that ability reeks of a mafia cop variation. I bet you're one of those machines underneath! You'll kill me in my sleep won't you?
Vote: Hawkeye7
I am now convinced I was right about him. How could someone who in his very first post exhibiting a change of avatar and role playing, as well as a direct question to me if I did this to him and a vote for me, not understand how I would be curious and suspicious of his motives? It made no sense at all, unless his voice really was not his own and someone else was setting him up to be suspicious and only me as the person with 100% knowledge that something was very wrong there?
DYH is a very good player and I refuse to believe that a townie DYH would have played that way willingly. If he was not controlled then he was actively trying to set me up but in doing so he set himself up as well and he also seemed to be operating on information that his role would not have had.
I still think that he was under the influence of another player.
The Hawkeye situation does seem somewhat reminiscent of what happened in Star Trek, where his general stubbornness in the face of what he perceived to be a poor case against him got him lynched as town. I would not like the same thing to happen again.
While I appreciate your concern, but you have your facts a little wrong. At least from my point of view.
I was lynched in Star Trek Mafia because I attempted to get people to think outside the “Mafia by Hoyle” playing mentality and try an out of the box response to a situation that was blown way out of proportion. I refused to role claim a role that could have been extremely valuable to the town but one that would be rendered useless if revealed. Try as I might, I was unable to overcome scum efforts to reinforce the 1 + (X) = 2 dogma of the game and get people to see the value of looking at alternative playing tactics where 1 + (X) could = 5 if I was right, and at worst only = 2.
Funny Axe, you were the mod of that game and you were privy to much more of my thinking regarding what I was doing and why I was doing it then anyone else in that game. I would have thought your recollection would have been closer to mine then this. Oh well. I clearly posted my reasons for doing what I did in that game at the end. For anyone who is interested here they are.
So I have to say this to Hawkeye: at the point we are at right now it does not matter how good the "case" against you is. You are where you are, right or wrong. And you simply have got to accept some responsibility for getting yourself here by posting so cryptically for the entire game. If you are merely role-playing - cut it out. If you have got some mod-enforced posting restriction, by all means, keep going, but for heaven's sake tell us what it is.
If you have a mod.-enforced posting restriction which you are not allowed to claim, then tell us what you can. Surely there is something you can claim?
Axe, I’m surprised at you.
Are you saying I am trying to somehow deny responsibility for the for the position I am in or for the way I post? Where have I posted anything that could be taken as attempting to abdicate responsibility for my posting?
On the contrary, I take complete responsibility for where I am in the game and always have.
As for you question regarding my possibly having a mod enforced posting restriction manifesting in the form of role-playing, I say DO I (!?).
If you can't tell us anything and you continue like this with the poo-pooing of everyone who votes you and repeated mooning of people, you are getting lynched. It's as simple as that.
poo-pooing?
POO-POOING?
Why I have NEVER poo-pooed anyone for just voting for me, at least not in this game.
I have repeatedly poo-pooed people for voting for me without posting any reasons or substantive justification for doing so.
I am again surprised that I actually need to point this out to you. If you have a point to which you are working towards that I have somehow missed, please point it out to me. Otherwise, I would have thought the reasons for me insisting on people actually posting substance to support their vote were fairly obvious.
Or, instead of just stopping, he can explain why he did it in the first place. How he figured that such distractions would help the town, etc. This seems particularly relevant since, the last time Hawkeye role-played, he turned up as scum.
You forgot to pile on that I ALWAYS, ALWAYS lurk when I’m scum.
Did you ever play in a mafia game with Phanto, Cyan? Ever read any of them?
If Grakthis hadn’t spelled it out for you, repeatedly, would you have gotten what he was doing?
Does it still work after he has been spelled out so explicitly?
If it is just a distraction then why are you letting it distract you?
Am I being deliberately evasive, cryptic and possibly condescending? Yes I am.
Will I spell out exactly what I am doing for you? No, but it really doesn’t matter.
Do I have a reason why I post in the manner that I do? Yes.
Is it of value to the game and the town in particular? Yes, I think so.
Raf, I’m not sure if this post addresses enough of the points you made in your PBPA of me or not. I need to crash early tonight but I will read through the entire PBPA thoroughly tomorrow and respond. I do appreciate the fact that you took the time to work it up. Thanks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
RELAPSED MAFIA JUNKIE
W – 33, L – 19, Broke Games - 9
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
Well, considering that, I think our only real course of action is to lynch atlseal.
Holy taking advantage Batman!
How the hell is it our only real course of action?
I would suggest people don't PM Azrael votes at all until a consensus has been reached (to avoid a situation where the mafia can quietly quicklynch someone), but this doesn't make atl a better or worse target than before.
Critical question: was there anyone (other than myself) online to see Azrael's recent post (the one with the ???'s) pre-edit? I assume Cyan was, given the timing of his post.
I more-or-less remember what was in the preedited post, should I say it and have Cyan back me or vice versa? Or is this course of action unethical/illegal?
Critical question: was there anyone (other than myself) online to see Azrael's recent post (the one with the ???'s) pre-edit? I assume Cyan was, given the timing of his post.
I more-or-less remember what was in the preedited post, should I say it and have Cyan back me or vice versa? Or is this course of action unethical/illegal?
I saw it. I barely remember it and don't care to recall it. The mod changed things for a reason. Just leave it at that. I don't understand why you're trying to second guess the mod. Nor do I see what you hope to gain by mentioning this information. I personally think it was a bad play to even bring the editting up in the first place.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Soul Collector count: 184
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Well now, this is interesting.
By the time I had previewed my post and saw the post by Azrael there were ??? in place. I did not see whatever there may have been there before any editting.
Since I was at 6 votes prior to the vote count black out and there is a distinct possibility that i could get lynched without us seeing who cast the last three votes. With that in mind I will post my role so it will not be lost if i do get lynched.
It should have been painfully obvious that I'm Truman Burbank. My PM contains flavor that generally explains why i have the ability I have but it really does not pertain to this game.
My ability is such that I can cause one player to change their avatar to whatever i want it to be ( FORUM RULES DO APPLY). One time shot ability.
Now this ability brings to mind all kinds of questions regarding avatars and what they can do or not do for players in this game.
I asked if the change is permant and the response was what i had mentioned earlier.
As you can see this would make that question and vote by DYH very intersting coming from someone with no investigation abilites. Why would he ask me if i did it to him?
how would he have known that I could have made him change his avatar?
The setting of this game is timed after the end of the Truman Show movie.
Now I really do have to crash.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
RELAPSED MAFIA JUNKIE
W – 33, L – 19, Broke Games - 9
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
Wow. Now that I read the last two posts by Hawkeye7, his interactions with DYH actually make a lot more sense than before. Consider this a quasi-unvote.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
There are no sane people, only misdiagnozed ones.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Anyways, vote alx2. I support ZDS : how could telling us the investigated players could harm the town or help scum ?
And how could telling us the investigated players help the town or harm the scums? Granted, I would be interested to know as well but that is not the correct reason to go about and dig for it.
As for the Oracle thing, I just find it unlikely that such a role with so many revolving players could be a scummy role and I thought that Grak was flying off the handle accusing Puzzle of being scum for attacking him, and was actually wondering whether he remembered Puzzle was the one taking over the Oracle.
I'll finish reading the rest after my supper, and bath...
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
So, you think Hawkeye is a good option for a lynch, and that's why you try to organize a counterwagon against ... someone who's voting Hawkeye? That makes sense.
As for naming my targets, I can think of several ways it can be disadvantageous. Since some people apparently need everything spelled out for them, here's one:
Let's assume, for example, that I name Spoon as one of my targets, and let's further assume he's actually scum. (I only picked Spoon as an example, because he's a player I'm not attacking at this point).
The mafia will of course put 2+2 together and realize that my ability is useless, possibly even misleading, as far as uncovering scums goes. Free info for the scum, while not helping the town at all; Neither myself not any other townie will know my ability is useless or misleading - only the mafia will.
Basically, scums would be able to cross-reference my targets with my suspicions with their own knowledge of who's scum and who's not to obtain knowledge the town cannot.
WHEN I WILL HAVE SOMETHING USEFUL TO CLAIM, I WILL DO SO.
Oh, I'm fine with the -2 to lynch thing mechanically. What I'm not fine with is the part of this drawback that involves the smilie. It's inelegant and unnecessary. I just don't think Az would design a role like that.
That would make sense if Kraj was mafia. As a cult leader, however, it makes a good deal less sense.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Wouldn't that actually affect the masonry? Why would he do that?
What for?
I would be interested in Grak showing that ability of his in a "flashy manner".
While "scratched" and "bitten" could go either way, drained certainly sounds like a vampire's handiwork to me.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
If this is all you have to say, then don't bother to ask us to get back on the hawkeye wagon again. Just because a wagon "is not moving very fast" does not mean that Hawkeye is scum. That's just craplogic to the max, imo.
FOS: Jeffe4.
Also keeping my eye firmly on atl as well.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
I will certainly not answer this. Just the fact that I know it would harm should be enough to you.
I have none. I know it isn't great but I base it on my feelings ; I believed he was a good lynch yesterday, and I do not matter how weak or strong my argumentation was : I still feel it this way.
...Seriously? These answers are crap.
hear, hear. A question worth an answer.
Still waiting.
(Dramatically acts out pulling himself up from under the sink, as if climbing a mountain cliff.
Looks directly into the mirror.)
(Gasps!) “If I’m lynched before I reach the end of the game, you will use me as an alternative source of food. “
“Eat me, dammit. That's an order. “
“Maybe just my love handles. I have love handles.....big ones. “
Cyan, Raf, Fade, Xyre and anyone else who wants to bandwagon me, Please post the case for it.
I’ve asked for it, repeatedly, but to no avail. Puzzle has also asked for it, repeatedly, and the only response was a gut feeling by J-Effe .
What more do I need to do here?
If I’m the best choice for a lynch today then folks, grow a backbone, step up, cast a vote and post why. Let’s have people go on record and discuss their reasons. Otherwise, don’t be surprised if the bandwagon doesn’t go anywhere and my response to your unsupported votes will be the same as before.
Also, for any of you scum who think a unsubstantiated vote for me is a good place to hide, while other targets get discussed and scrutinized by others. You’re wrong. That will most certainly be examined and when I am revealed to be town it will count against you.
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Either you're scum trying to distract the town, or you're a baffling townie (as you were in Star Trek). I, for one, would like to get more information to figure that out, rather than just letting you continue.
That wasn't really what you said when I asked you.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
The other is this: Has anyone else received flowers this game? I received some flowers on a past night (not saying which one). No one else has mentioned anything like this happening to them, and I want to know if this is an isolated incident or not.
First post was RP character establishment. Certainly trying to set himself as a character unaware of the existence of the Matrix, but a character from a "real world" setting (e.g. he'd heard of Keanu Reeves and the Matrix movies) not Alice in Wonderland. Does ask a question about whether we should move or not (as Hvir pointed out, and we now know that Hvir was presumably telling the truth about the location thing).
Second post- includes a giant picture, more RP, more talk about moving around and finding a way out of the mall, votes carrion pigeons and says the second most suspicious is a surprise he'll be keeping an eye on.
3: ++ for praising my good shot on Xyre (ok, so I'm biased). More seriously, asks after examples of non-town multivoters (e.g. looking at cp) and is against 2nd mason claiming.
4: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=2086979&postcount=524
Very obviously drops a breadcrumb I haven't been able to get, although I haven't really tried much yet. I tend to distrust obvious breadcrumbing. Townies don't want people to notice their breadcrumbs.
5: Switches vote to Cyan citing Loran- not that he mentions this again- and citing Grakthis' PBPA.
6: Cheshire Cat joke following atlseal's claim. 6 posts with the thread over 600 posts, and precious little content.
7: RP reaction to arimnaes dying. Asks cp whether he finds cyan or atlseal scummier. Doesn't give his own opinion on this.
8: Breadcrumbs a Jim Carrey character (for anyone who thought the references only showed up later) with the "All righty then!". Suggests that arimnaes was killed to throw suspicion onto atlseal and suggests there's an obvious culprit for that. I assume he means Cyan- feel free to correct me HE7- but this is a massive stretch.
9,10, 11: Continues the above theme. This goes from stretch to outright distrust. Also suggests that people could have abilities that get more powerful if they roleplay more.
12: Fluff.
13: Suspicion on fade and Cyan.
14: Another picture. Accuses Alx of fencesitting.
15, 16, 17: Questioning of Cyan (including an unvote).
18: Rejects Grakthis' belief that LJ was too "stupid" to claim that role as scum and suggests LJ's claim could be a scum gambit.
19: Puts up LJ as the "default" lynch- warning, warning, danger Will Robinson- and nominates fade, cp and Cyan as his 3 preferred investigations for LJ.
20: Returns to Cyan and votes him again. Cyan points out after this that Hawkeye never gave any reasons for voting him to start with (this is true, other than that Hawkeye said he agreed with Grakthis) or to unvote him earlier (also true).
21: Continues against Cyan. However, other than barning Grakthis and badgering Cyan about not answering Hawkeye's questioning (which was basically variations on the theme of "my question is ANSWER ME"), there's nothing here.
22: Asks Axel why he voted for LJ. Fair enough.
23: Attacks Axel's reasoning for voting LJ. This is also fair enough, Axel's "point" is completely pants and just an excuse to not lynch Cyan for my money.
24, 25: OMGUS on Axelrod for calling Hawkeye scummy. Accuses cp of fence sitting. Rips into Axelrod's defence of Cyan (fair enough again, but I think Cyan is a neutral rather than mafia- so whatever; and if Hawkeye is SK, it really doesn't matter what Cyan is besides an easy target) and Cyan's defence of himself.
26: More fencing with cp and Cyan's response to Hawkeye's allegations. This is "you suck!" "no, you suck!" level work more than it is logic or argument.
27: Rejects Cyan's assertion that HE7 voted him for no reasons (well, it isn't NO reason). Now gives his reasons again as:
For such a long running argument, this is very shallow. Against that, I too was supcious of Cyan as were many others- but for more reasons than this!
28: Not a game post (this was sympathies to DYH, incidentally- there's no negative connotation from this not being a game post).
29: Cyan has claimed and now it's quite rightfully open season on Cyan's claim.
30: Game balance argument against Cyan's role (comparing HE7's bodyguard role there to Cyan's claim here).
31: Rejects Cyan's claim that this is just gaming the mod- as an aside, obviously I agree with HE7 about all this. I'm more concerned about the leadup- I think HE7 was stretching around for targets here and then found an easy one.
32: Asks DYH why he thinks Cyan is town.
33: Unvotes Cyan after Axel's claim (as an aside, I find this slightly puzzling as I thought Axelrod's claim was obvious long before that and if you didn't agree with Axelrod's defence THEN, why start now, when he's even admitted his role PM didn't mention Cyan at all?).
34: ...and then points out all the difficulties with clearing Cyan based on Axel's claim but doesn't revote Cyan. And fatefully responds to Hvir's comment about locations, asks why he didn't hint at it before, and points out that he (Hawkeye) had already mentioned moving locations in the past.
This is kind of where it gets interesting, but it's 12:45am and I have to work in the morning. Will finish later.
@Axel-No, I have not received or sent flowers to anyone.
@ZDS: Yeah, I know. This week has been pretty busy between classes starting and my sister having a baby. Just no time to do much fun stuff.
Having read some more, I'm still not convinced about HE. Yes his avatar thing with DYH was odd and it's something I mostly ignored thinking it was a minor thing. So I'm not willing to jump on his wagon as it's the only point I see people bringing up against him.
Right now, atlseal is whom I'd most like to vote for. I disliked his claim from the get go and him not mentioning that he'd been vanilla'ed is lying by omission. Plus the one result he gave could just as easily been faked. So I'm not sold on him.
But before I vote, I'd like a Vote Count to see where things currently stand.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
You may have missed this post as you were skimming.
Also, no flowers.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I find the continuation of this discussion unproductive. Regardless of what my answers to your questions will be, they will provide info to the scum while not helping the town at all.
I will hopefully have more to alleviate your concerns in a couple of days.
2 Alx2-ZDS, J-effe IV
2 Atlseal-Abbey, Spoon
6 Hawkeye7- Alx2, Xyre, Fadeblue, Rafaelk, Atlseal, Cyan
1 Puzzle-Grakthis
6 Not Voting- Hawkeye7, Carrion Pigeons, Axelrod, Dagger, Puzzle, Vampyr
With 17 alive, it's 9 to lynch.
So I have to say this to Hawkeye: at the point we are at right now it does not matter how good the "case" against you is. You are where you are, right or wrong. And you simply have got to accept some responsibility for getting yourself here by posting so cryptically for the entire game. If you are merely role-playing - cut it out. If you have got some mod-enforced posting restriction, by all means, keep going, but for heaven's sake tell us what it is.
If you have a mod.-enforced posting restriction which you are not allowed to claim, then tell us what you can. Surely there is something you can claim?
If you can't tell us anything and you continue like this with the poo-pooing of everyone who votes you and repeated mooning of people, you are getting lynched. It's as simple as that.
@Axel regarding the HE situation: I understand what you're saying regarding his posting style, but I have to say, you stating that HE will be lynched strictly for continuing his posting style really rubbed me the wrong way.
If you're willing to lead the lynch on HE for only his posting style, I'd have to say that that effort could have been better spent elsewhere on someone who is acting scummy rather than annoying.
Besides, if HE has a mod enforced RP restriction that he can't talk about, what is he going to tell you about it? His role?
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
I still do not support the hawkeye lynch, for what that's worth. I'm just not reading him the same way other people are.
It's a raw work in progress. I really didn't realise how long it was going to take me to even get thar far. I was planning on working up an argument against Hawkeye, not a PBPA, but I figured I'd give my notes up to that point rather than stay quiet in the meantime.
In any event, all you need to do to match up the posts to the order is do a search on the thread for Hawkeye's posts.
Also, no flowers.
Also, atl is now claiming that he is effectively immune to investigations as well. Given that his rolename is approximately 100% known and that the cop is dead, I'll grant that this doesn't make him look nearly as bad as if we had a reason to think we still had an investigator, but I still think this is a strong-ish point against him: he's either covering his bases by hoping to prevent a backup cop of some kind from targeting him, or else he's telling the truth and he's basically a godfather.
We need to step up to the real bandwagon of the day. Vote atl.
As for HE7, Raf might have something, but so far all I've seen is people voting him because he's condescending and unpleasant and impossible to understand. I'll admit that I wouldn't mind seeing him gone for those reasons, but it would be a waste of a lynch, inasmuch as we have a much better target in atl.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
In all seriousness though, I'm not claiming that at all. My system was designed to protect me from one mallicious intentioned action (read: intent to kill). In my last post, I was trying to get across that the dissapearance was the result of the kill targeting, not being killed itself.
Sorry, I was in a rush when typing the last post and had a few typos, one of which (which probably caused your confusion) was that "cop" in there should have been "doc" when I was explaining that I still would have dissapeared if targeted for death even if I was being protected at the time.
Vote Count 2.9
???
For the remainder of the day all votes must be submitted by PM to count towards the lynch. The official vote count has been temporarily disabled. Preexisting votes have been wiped clean.
With 17 alive, it's 9 to lynch.
Thank you Fade for responding to my request for people who are voting for me to at least post why they are doing so. I’ll try to clarify exactly what I was, and still am, thinking.
My interest in DYH stemmed primarily with his changing of his avatar and also to his sudden role playing that coincided with his avatar change. The role playing by itself was not all that concerning as there have been some other players who have also role played this game and it was specifically mentioned as a possible requirement by Azrael prior to the game.
This is the first post by DYH that drew my attention as it was the first made by DYH that did several things.
First, it was the first post by DYH after he had changed his avatar. I am almost completely certain of this, but if it is actually not the actual first it is very, very close to it.
Second, it is also the first that DYH began his role playing.
Third, this post a the first for the very last line, where DYH voted for me.
“Vote: Hawkeye7 Did you do this to me? “
Where the heck did that come from I thought. Up to that point DYH and I had very little interaction and no direct confrontations in the game. Why did he vote for me and why did he accuse me of doing anything to him?
This post came after the Kraj episode. An episode that you, Fade featured prominently in. You had also been made to change your avatar in response to Kraj trying to recruit you I believe. You presented yourself as turning on Kraj and choiring to side with the town rather then trying to win with an exposed Kraj lead cult. With Kraj gone I would have thought that you would have been a better choice for DYH to chose to ask if someone had done something to him that would force him to change his avatar and to role play. But DYH did not do that, he asked me. He did not have any investigation ability so why would he choose me? Because I role play? I doubt it. When do I not role play? I have role-played when I have had a restriction and when I haven’t had a restriction. DYH has been in plenty of games with me and seem me do it many times before. If I had been the only player in the game doing it I would think that a more likely possibility but as I was not and since this was also the post that he changed his avatar I don’t this that was it either.
It seemed to me that DYH knew something about my role and my ability and since he did not have any investigation abilities I began to think that he was mafia and that he had learned of my ability from a mafia investigator or that he was recruited and that there was another cult member who was an investigator.
These were the questions that prompted me to begin to question DYH regarding this change of appearance. I tried to ask questions that would allow him to answer me but to also protect any potentially valuable information if this change was a result of his actual role. He did not respond to me and I continued to question him.
At this point I PM’d Azrael to as a few questions regarding my role ability. One of the answers along with the exact wording of Rule #7 lead me to the apparently faulty assumption that a player could not simply decide to change their avatar in the game without “Moderator Authorization” This seemed to fit with the possibility that the cult forced players to use the Agent Smith Avatar at some point or perhaps errantly. This is why I asked DYH about his use of the Agent Smith avatar initially.
This post of mine got no response from DYH so I tried again.
DYH then made this post
Now, whether he was responding directly to me or not, I took it as such. As I have already explained a couple of times I had already been speculating on the possibility that DYH could be somehow controlled, or the content of his posts, by another player. This post with the line “my voice is no longer my own” could easily have been a very clever way of DYH trying to tell us this without violating that control.
At this point Axelrod was questioning DYH regarding his role playing and DYH chose to respond to him directly in these posts:
And
At this point I tried to ask him again, more directly about the avatar as I was suspecting that he was either recruited or possible scum that had slipped up.
Again DYH chose not to answer me directly and makes this post.
At this point I am fairly sure that I was right about DYH being scum or recruited and continue to try to clarify what is going on with DYH by asking more directly about the avatar change.
DYH is a very good player and I refuse to believe that a townie DYH would have played that way willingly. If he was not controlled then he was actively trying to set me up but in doing so he set himself up as well and he also seemed to be operating on information that his role would not have had.
I still think that he was under the influence of another player.
While I appreciate your concern, but you have your facts a little wrong. At least from my point of view.
I was lynched in Star Trek Mafia because I attempted to get people to think outside the “Mafia by Hoyle” playing mentality and try an out of the box response to a situation that was blown way out of proportion. I refused to role claim a role that could have been extremely valuable to the town but one that would be rendered useless if revealed. Try as I might, I was unable to overcome scum efforts to reinforce the 1 + (X) = 2 dogma of the game and get people to see the value of looking at alternative playing tactics where 1 + (X) could = 5 if I was right, and at worst only = 2.
Funny Axe, you were the mod of that game and you were privy to much more of my thinking regarding what I was doing and why I was doing it then anyone else in that game. I would have thought your recollection would have been closer to mine then this. Oh well. I clearly posted my reasons for doing what I did in that game at the end. For anyone who is interested here they are.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1250798&postcount=1962
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1250822&postcount=1964
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1250861&postcount=1966
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1248011&postcount=1938
Axe, I’m surprised at you.
Are you saying I am trying to somehow deny responsibility for the for the position I am in or for the way I post? Where have I posted anything that could be taken as attempting to abdicate responsibility for my posting?
On the contrary, I take complete responsibility for where I am in the game and always have.
As for you question regarding my possibly having a mod enforced posting restriction manifesting in the form of role-playing, I say DO I (!?).
poo-pooing?
POO-POOING?
Why I have NEVER poo-pooed anyone for just voting for me, at least not in this game.
I have repeatedly poo-pooed people for voting for me without posting any reasons or substantive justification for doing so.
I am again surprised that I actually need to point this out to you. If you have a point to which you are working towards that I have somehow missed, please point it out to me. Otherwise, I would have thought the reasons for me insisting on people actually posting substance to support their vote were fairly obvious.
You forgot to pile on that I ALWAYS, ALWAYS lurk when I’m scum.
Did you ever play in a mafia game with Phanto, Cyan? Ever read any of them?
If Grakthis hadn’t spelled it out for you, repeatedly, would you have gotten what he was doing?
Does it still work after he has been spelled out so explicitly?
If it is just a distraction then why are you letting it distract you?
Am I being deliberately evasive, cryptic and possibly condescending? Yes I am.
Will I spell out exactly what I am doing for you? No, but it really doesn’t matter.
Do I have a reason why I post in the manner that I do? Yes.
Is it of value to the game and the town in particular? Yes, I think so.
Raf, I’m not sure if this post addresses enough of the points you made in your PBPA of me or not. I need to crash early tonight but I will read through the entire PBPA thoroughly tomorrow and respond. I do appreciate the fact that you took the time to work it up. Thanks.
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
Holy taking advantage Batman!
How the hell is it our only real course of action?
I would suggest people don't PM Azrael votes at all until a consensus has been reached (to avoid a situation where the mafia can quietly quicklynch someone), but this doesn't make atl a better or worse target than before.
I more-or-less remember what was in the preedited post, should I say it and have Cyan back me or vice versa? Or is this course of action unethical/illegal?
I saw it. I barely remember it and don't care to recall it. The mod changed things for a reason. Just leave it at that. I don't understand why you're trying to second guess the mod. Nor do I see what you hope to gain by mentioning this information. I personally think it was a bad play to even bring the editting up in the first place.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Well now, this is interesting.
By the time I had previewed my post and saw the post by Azrael there were ??? in place. I did not see whatever there may have been there before any editting.
Since I was at 6 votes prior to the vote count black out and there is a distinct possibility that i could get lynched without us seeing who cast the last three votes. With that in mind I will post my role so it will not be lost if i do get lynched.
It should have been painfully obvious that I'm Truman Burbank. My PM contains flavor that generally explains why i have the ability I have but it really does not pertain to this game.
My ability is such that I can cause one player to change their avatar to whatever i want it to be ( FORUM RULES DO APPLY). One time shot ability.
Now this ability brings to mind all kinds of questions regarding avatars and what they can do or not do for players in this game.
I asked if the change is permant and the response was what i had mentioned earlier.
As you can see this would make that question and vote by DYH very intersting coming from someone with no investigation abilites. Why would he ask me if i did it to him?
how would he have known that I could have made him change his avatar?
The setting of this game is timed after the end of the Truman Show movie.
Now I really do have to crash.
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP