*looks up and dabs some blo...ahhh ketchup from the corner of his mouth*
Hot dogs or hambugers anyone? I just found this really cool George Foreman grill in the store over there. Thought I might as well make use of it and enjoy my stay in Club Hellhole.
Wait, did Xyre say something about Ice Cream? Wow, that would really go well with the dogs and 'burgers. How about bringing some of that to the party. It's been a while since I had a good ice cream cone.
There was this little town back where I'm from. My mom used to take me there every so often. We'd stop at this great ice cream shop. They made the best home made ice cream. The store was decked out as an old fashion ice cream parlor. Waffle cones, fresh and crispy. Racing the sun to see which could devour the most ice cream the quickest, rivulets streaming down over my pale hand.
My hand...no...not my hand. You can take my legs, I don't care about them. But my hand, my hands, you can't take them. They're my life. You see, I'm a concert pianist. My hands are my life. My legs mean nothing to me.
Me...What am I to do? I need an answer. Yes, an answer. The answer. What doth say thee, atlseal? What answer do thine have?
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Current Soul Collector count: 184
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Well, I come back to see everyone waiting on me again. You see, normally in a situation like this, I'd tell everyone to take a because the results I got last night (yes, I got results) lend better to watching interactions for a while. However, since there's probably a day SK out there, I want to make sure I get this out there before I'm killed off.
Vote: Kraj, I figured I'd investigate a player that nobody could realistically have any tells on. Lo and behold, he's a virus upon this world. Kraj is the cult leader, Agent Smith.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Interesting....normally this would earn an immediate vote from me, but considering atl's reactions yesteday, i think it's quite likely he's scum trying to get the town to mislynch before he dies.
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Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
EBWDOP, Didnt mean to post that, post wasnt finished.
Anyhow, Vote Atlseal. We got his "investigation" , and its hardly believable. I think lynching him today (especially since he's a claimed 1 shot) is the right play.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Hell, I'd be fine with you lynching me today too. It would prove I'm telling the truth and the we can get the cult out of the way. I've used my most useful power anyway.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
However, that doesn't make me any more comfortable with your claim, because your role is too powerful for a reasonable townie, but could easily be cobbled together by a mafia. I'll stick with my vote for now.
Loran dies tomorrow. I cannot believe we have a claimed power role, who is claiming to have caught scum, and Loran votes FOR THE CLAIMED POWER ROLE!
No matter how you look at it, the correct lynch is Kraj. Because if we lynch him and it turns out that ATL was telling the truth, then YAY! we know to trust ATL a little bit more!
Anyhow, Vote Atlseal. We got his "investigation" , and its hardly believable. I think lynching him today (especially since he's a claimed 1 shot) is the right play.
The only problem with this is that if he is telling the truth you let the cult have another night. However, cults tend to work different ways (leader only can recruit, or any of them can recruit, win conditions, etc.) in different games. The last time we saw Agent Smith cults was in Elegant, which was extremely disruptive to the entire game due to the change to the players that were recruited and then entered the deadpile.
Combine this possibility with Athos' non-participation in Day 1, and I think that Kraj is a better lynch today, and even if he is correct in this, I still don't trust atlseal's alignment one bit (the mafia have a vested interest in eliminating the cult as well) and think atlseal should be vig'd tonite.
EBWOP: Though, I have to ask.... WHY would you choose Kraj to target? He wasn't on anyones list. Answer that to my satisfaction, and the lynch today is a no brainer.
Loran dies tomorrow. I cannot believe we have a claimed power role, who is claiming to have caught scum, and Loran votes FOR THE CLAIMED POWER ROLE!
No matter how you look at it, the correct lynch is Kraj. Because if we lynch him and it turns out that ATL was telling the truth, then YAY! we know to trust ATL a little bit more!
And if we lynch him and he turns out to be town we've wasted a lynch on a townie on day 2. Not to mentiont he fact that Atl was the scummiest player for all of day 1.
I mean, i was for lettin him live day 1 and everything to see what he did, but this just smells like scum tryin to cause another mislynch before he is inevitably lynched.
Anyhow, i gotta go to the gym, then a met game. So i might not be on till later.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
EBWODP @AG, i cant see a cult where all cult members recruit. I just can't. How would the town ever kill that? We'd lynch kraj today, thered still be another cult, and itd be like a virus you couldnt kill without a lucky roleblock and night kill.
Seems a little rediculous.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
And if we lynch him and he turns out to be town we've wasted a lynch on a townie on day 2. Not to mentiont he fact that Atl was the scummiest player for all of day 1.
I mean, i was for lettin him live day 1 and everything to see what he did, but this just smells like scum tryin to cause another mislynch before he is inevitably lynched.
Anyhow, i gotta go to the gym, then a met game. So i might not be on till later.
1) No he wasn't. Cyan was.
2) If he turns up town, YAYAYAYAYA! We caught ATL lying to us! Dead scum is good!
3) I will trade 1 mislynch for 1 scum life each and everygame day. In fact, I encourage the scum to do this. When we force you to claim, claim a power role, trick us into mislynching once and then we lynch you the next day. Let's continue that trend and see who wins this game.
EBWOP: Though, I have to ask.... WHY would you choose Kraj to target? He wasn't on anyones list. Answer that to my satisfaction, and the lynch today is a no brainer.
I figured I'd investigate a player that nobody could realistically have any tells on. Lo and behold, he's a virus upon this world. Kraj is the cult leader, Agent Smith.
Is there some problem with reading my posts or something?
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
EBWODP @AG, i cant see a cult where all cult members recruit. I just can't. How would the town ever kill that? We'd lynch kraj today, thered still be another cult, and itd be like a virus you couldnt kill without a lucky roleblock and night kill.
Seems a little rediculous.
Actually, seems awesome. There's no way we could loose. I'd ask to be recruited ASAP and we'd stop lynching people. It would be the ultimate "everyone wins" role.
3) I will trade 1 mislynch for 1 scum life each and everygame day. In fact, I encourage the scum to do this. When we force you to claim, claim a power role, trick us into mislynching once and then we lynch you the next day. Let's continue that trend and see who wins this game.
Oh, of course youll do a 1 for 1. But this is with a player who already was highly suspect, and imo by far more scummy than cyan (Cyan's biggest hole was his unbelievable roleclaim really). This is a player who's the likely lynch ANYHOW, and now instead of just being lynched on day 2, we lynch a random person today instead.
Heck, what if Atl WAS a scum cop, and found out kraj to be a power role? When Kraj claimed power, would you continue to vote him?
I still think atl's the play. Mind you' he's a claimed 1 shot, so its not like he's goin to give us anything else (he's effectively a 1-shot vig now).
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Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Newsflash: I was roleblocked last night. Well, either that or the guy I attempted to target is untargetable. Could go either way. If need be, I'll actually ask whoever I attempted to target if he happens to be untargetable. Maybe later. But for now, I think I was RBed.
Now, assume for a sec atlseal and myself are both town. Why would the scum RB the claimed weak flavor-cop and not RB the claimed supercop (gets role and name)? Something is fishy here.
Oh, of course youll do a 1 for 1. But this is with a player who already was highly suspect, and imo by far more scummy than cyan (Cyan's biggest hole was his unbelievable roleclaim really). This is a player who's the likely lynch ANYHOW, and now instead of just being lynched on day 2, we lynch a random person today instead.
Heck, what if Atl WAS a scum cop, and found out kraj to be a power role? When Kraj claimed power, would you continue to vote him?
I still think atl's the play. Mind you' he's a claimed 1 shot, so its not like he's goin to give us anything else (he's effectively a 1-shot vig now).
If scum were going for a ploy, why not try to take out power or leadership?
Why strap a bomb to your chest and run into the WORST PLAYER in the town? You know, the one who didn't even play?
If you're scum, why investigate Athos/Kraj? Makes no sense. You don't do it. You investigate a leader or someone giving out power vibes.
Your theory makes no sense.
The only way he actually investigates Kraj is if he's telling the truth.
So either he's scum with a TERRIBLE plot to suicide and take out a useless townie (No insult Kraj, you might be great, but Athos was useless) or he's just handed us scum.
You tell me which of those two is more plausible?
And no, claiming power now will not save Kraj. I've seen too many scum go "he's not the cop! I am the cop! Beleieve mEEEEEEE!" when they get fingered.
Newsflash: I was roleblocked last night. Well, either that or the guy I attempted to target is untargetable. Could go either way. If need be, I'll actually ask whoever I attempted to target if he happens to be untargetable. Maybe later. But for now, I think I was RBed.
Now, assume for a sec atlseal and myself are both town. Why would the scum RB the claimed weak flavor-cop and not RB the claimed supercop (gets role and name)? Something is fishy here.
Why would they roleblock you when they can roleblock Axelrod?
Why would they roleblock you when they can roleblock the bodyguard and kill Axelrod?
Newsflash: I was roleblocked last night. Well, either that or the guy I attempted to target is untargetable. Could go either way. If need be, I'll actually ask whoever I attempted to target if he happens to be untargetable. Maybe later. But for now, I think I was RBed.
Now, assume for a sec atlseal and myself are both town. Why would the scum RB the claimed weak flavor-cop and not RB the claimed supercop (gets role and name)? Something is fishy here.
Well, Grak, I think I agree with you, but say there are hypothetically six scum in a 24 player game, and we lynch one of them every other day, starting on Day 2. The mafia win. I don't think that it's as bad a strategy as you think it is, to try to force the town to mislynch once by exposing themselves by a lie.
That's not to say that 6 scum is especially likely, or that role abilities don't affect that, but I don't think we ought to be thrilled when the mafia play that way.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
EBWODP @AG, i cant see a cult where all cult members recruit. I just can't. How would the town ever kill that? We'd lynch kraj today, thered still be another cult, and itd be like a virus you couldnt kill without a lucky roleblock and night kill.
Seems a little rediculous.
You are right, I should have been more clear with my wording there. What I meant was that "all cult members have the ability to recruit, but only one may recruit per night." The way that it came out is obverly more broken than Tolarian Academy
Well, Grak, I think I agree with you, but say there are hypothetically six scum in a 24 player game, and we lynch one of them every other day, starting on Day 2. The mafia win. I don't think that it's as bad a strategy as you think it is, to try to force the town to mislynch once by exposing themselves by a lie.
That's not to say that 6 scum is especially likely, or that role abilities don't affect that, but I don't think we ought to be thrilled when the mafia play that way.
Vote Kraj.
If the set is designed where we have to hit at better than 50% in order to win this game, the setup is completely broken in half in favor of the mafia and SK. You can't ask a town to do that. If the town hits at 40% they should be in the game on the last day. That's not a made up stat, either. I actually figured out hit rates over a pool of about 30 games at MT and ML and looked at games won vs lost.
But I understand the point you are making (about starting on day 3, etc).
Also, in my post above, I mentioned roleblocking the bodyguard... but now that I think about it, I think Cyan said that he couldn't be RB'd to kill Conner.
Also, in my post above, I mentioned roleblocking the bodyguard... but now that I think about it, I think Cyan said that he couldn't be RB'd to kill Conner.
The kill last night tells me that either LJustus was going to die regardless of who was targeted (hence, sacrificial lamb which would explain his adamant stance in wanting to be lynched to get his ability used) or that someone wasn't afraid of any potential repercussions that he'd claimed being targeted by a NK would bring. That speaks of either a mafia godfather presence or a serial killer with immunity, IMHO.
Wow, alot can happen in 3 hours time. Loran's reaction here seems really, really suspect to me. For one thing, it really sounds like he's speaking from a position of inside knowledge. Plus, this situation is win-win for the town..I can't see why he'd want to just lynch atlseal.
@alx: If you were RBed, you would most likely know it. Having an activated ability and being RBed almost always results in you receiving some kind of flavor message. The person you targetted being untargetable makes alot more sense.
If the set is designed where we have to hit at better than 50% in order to win this game, the setup is completely broken in half in favor of the mafia and SK. You can't ask a town to do that. If the town hits at 40% they should be in the game on the last day. That's not a made up stat, either. I actually figured out hit rates over a pool of about 30 games at MT and ML and looked at games won vs lost.
But I understand the point you are making (about starting on day 3, etc).
Also, in my post above, I mentioned roleblocking the bodyguard... but now that I think about it, I think Cyan said that he couldn't be RB'd to kill Conner.
Okay, say we had a game in which the town made it to Day 11, with an SK and a mafia being the only extra kills. According to this, 4 mafia should be dead, and there would have been 30 total kills at the maximum. So say there are still even chances for the mafia and the town at this point: 1 mafia and two town. So you're saying that a game in which there are 33 players and 5 mafia and 1 SK is balanced, and that the town should be able to mislynch at least 6 times before reaching LyLo? 'Cause to me, that seems like an awfully easy game for the town, and that they've been playing abysmally.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I'm not sure what the relevance of this statistics debate is, but, I can't think of a mafia game that I've ever read/played in/heard about/etc that didn't feature, at minimum, 1 scum in every 4 players. I thought that this was just how it always went. Less than that just makes it too hard for the mafia to win.
Also, I'd like for CP to prove that he still has 3 votes, by applying them to Kraj. That would be enough votes for Kraj to claim. I know that him claiming is kind of a formality, but, I learned my lesson regarding that in Elegant Mafia.
Okay, say we had a game in which the town made it to Day 11, with an SK and a mafia being the only extra kills. According to this, 4 mafia should be dead, and there would have been 30 total kills at the maximum. So say there are still even chances for the mafia and the town at this point: 1 mafia and two town. So you're saying that a game in which there are 33 players and 5 mafia and 1 SK is balanced, and that the town should be able to mislynch at least 6 times before reaching LyLo? 'Cause to me, that seems like an awfully easy game for the town, and that they've been playing abysmally.
Wait... what?
Vanilla setup and the numbers you provided...
33 players with 27 of them being townies (27 points, + 3 cop, +3 doc)
1 SK
5 Mafia (20 points + 4 for the SK = 24 points)
....is not balanced. That favors the town by a score of 33 to 24.
My general rule is the town should be able to mislynch 3 times to open the game before they hit Lylo.
I am not sure I understand what we are discussing....
The town needs to hit at a rate of > 40% to be competitive. Which means 4 hits out of every 10 lynches.
which means 4 hits and 6 misses.
Like, ok, a balanced setup is normally 25 players total, 5 mafia, 1 SK (25 points for the town, 24 points for the mafia). if they open by lynching 4 straight scum, then mislynch 6 times after that you'd have something like 2 townies, 1 SK and 1 mafia left in the last game day. As you can see, that is the DEAD ON borderline for the town. If they do 1 better, they should win (3 townies vs 1 scum). If they do 1 worse, they have no shot of winning (1 townie vs 2 mafia and an SK). But at the 40% mark, they can no-lynch and put the game back in the hands of the scum to decide.
the 40% is not a rule for designing games... it is not PRESCRIPTIVE it is DESCRIPTIVE. It is the observed threshold where towns are competitive in the end game. Towns that lynch below it lose handily, towns that lynch above it usually win.
And games are not normally this simple... on average, the mafia miss on atleast on kill per game. Sometimes more. Townies sometimes get extra kills via a vig. etc. etc.
Vote Kraj. We are likely to have a short day 2. Still, atlseal (as loran already pointed) may be a mafia investigator (or one of his partners did this investigation). Just to say that even if he's right, it doesn't clear him at all for me. Anyways. If Atlseal doesn't lie, he can still vig. Let's see what he'll come up with tomorrow.
Oh and ! FoS Hawkeye. Your ending day vote was very bad timed : we were waiting for whether the mason partner should claim or not. Faking to think you put him at lynch -1 was not great either.
Shall we proceed with this again, before we lynch Kraj ?
Okay then, that seems pretty good. I tend to believe what atlseal is saying.
Spoon: did you do that to me last Night? Just yes or no.
Xyre: am I supposed to know what you are talking about, or are you being coy?
Why is Hunted Charlie authorized to replace "MJM?" Who is MJM if it's not MatJoeMan who is not, as far as I know, in this game?
Alx2 claiming a RB is slightly suspicious. Because if he's town then it's true that the scum likely would have higher priority targets than someone who claimed he sometimes might get a role-name with no indication of that player's alignment. The only reason they would do this would be if they had reason to lie about role-names.
I wonder though if LJustus just sucked up the scum nightkill/kills last night as part of his role. I'd have been very surprised if anyone targeted him after what he said yesterday.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Cyan, I'm going to say that there actually is a reason not to do it every day. Take that how you like it. I'm happy to prove it when necessary, but now is not that time.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Ohh, man, crap like that can’t happen if I’m going to get out of this death trap.
I shift my eyes to the slowly growing pile of bodies with burial shrouds of flies and maggots. Look what happened to those that showed weakness. That's not the way I plan on having my story end.
I look up, suspicion clouding my judgment like gambling clouds a gambler's common sense, as I listen to what atlseal has to say.
"I found something last night", atlseal claims. He confidently jabs a finger in the direction of the guy over by the bookstore, sending my mind careening back to memories of the tales told of Babe Ruth calling his shot.
"Him, he's our target. He's a deviant, some sort of leader that looks to infect the rest of us." Atlseal is sure of himself, as his words spew forth like honey to the starving masses, as he feeds the new meat to the slavering dogs
My first reaction is to think it's too easy. He takes a shot in the dark, picking on the new guy and he finds an enemy? Maybe atlseal should start playing the lottery with that kind of luck.
I shake my head. His investigation does nothing to prove atlseal to me. Sure he's offering a reasonable target, but it’s not a scum. Eliminating an infection is good, but a scum buddy could have fed it to him. I’m still thinking he needs to go.
I chuckle as I watch the hotheaded types throw their lot into the center, claiming atlseal to be scum and voting. It doesn’t surprise me that the two fastest draws are loran and Xyre, both of whom wore suspicion yesterday like a bride wears her wedding gown.
I take a seat closer to the center and watch as the arguments begin. Voices rise, fingers jab and fists ball up. Maybe a mistaken word might be uttered or a shred of information might come bubble to the surface. Hopefully something interesting occurs.
A late arrival, makes me chuckle. I wonder if Axelrod might be having flashbacks, as he wonders aloud about someone whose here, but yet isn’t.
In the end, none of this really matters much. It seems as if people have already made their decisions for today. It’s all a matter of waiting for others to show up. I pull out my voting chit and slowly finger it, knowing that if I hadn’t lost my capacities previously, my vote would be on Kraj.
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Current Soul Collector count: 184
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Spoon: did you do that to me last Night? Just yes or no.
...
Why is Hunted Charlie authorized to replace "MJM?" Who is MJM if it's not MatJoeMan who is not, as far as I know, in this game?
Uh... not as far as I know, Axel.
MJM replaced Suth in some sort of probably role based ability in the lynch scene yesterday. I guess he wasn't able to act as a replacement, and HC is being 'authorized' to take over.
And now that Spoon has chimed in I'll say that what happened to me last night did not have anything to do with "Ice Cream." It did, however, have something to do with a spoon.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Vote Kraj. We are likely to have a short day 2. Still, atlseal (as loran already pointed) may be a mafia investigator (or one of his partners did this investigation). Just to say that even if he's right, it doesn't clear him at all for me. Anyways. If Atlseal doesn't lie, he can still vig. Let's see what he'll come up with tomorrow.
Oh and ! FoS Hawkeye. Your ending day vote was very bad timed : we were waiting for whether the mason partner should claim or not. Faking to think you put him at lynch -1 was not great either.
Shall we proceed with this again, before we lynch Kraj ?
So, let me get this straight.
You think that keeping the second mason from claiming was so vitally important that I faked missing Hvir’s vote for himself?
(Caution - Sarcastic Hyperbole to follow)
You got me.
Yep, it was all I could do to force myself to wait the 3 minutes to make it look legit.
Oh, no wait, I would have had to have checked preview, while putting together the lengthy post with quotes that built the case I based my vote on, and seen Hvir vote for himself, something that everyone figured he would do. Then, when I saw that post by Hvir and realized what a tremendous opportunity I had to hammer his lynch AND prevent the second mason from claiming. I had to hurry up my post so that I posted it as close to Hvir’s as possible. That way it would look like I actually didn’t see Hvir’s post voting for himself and my vote for him could be the lynching vote and I would have this Really Great defense for being the lynch vote.
Yeah. That was it.
Oh and welcome to the game, err back to the game J.
So, I’ll wait to hear from Kraj and others before I vote for him, Kraj that is.
I would very much like to see CP’s multiple votes again.
I am not in favor of the second mason coming out just yet.
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RELAPSED MAFIA JUNKIE
W – 33, L – 19, Broke Games - 9
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
Axel: Matjoeman was announced as "replacing" Sutherlands at the end of yesterday (although it's clear that this was a game mechanics replacement, not a normal replacement). I guess he mustn't have answered his PM or something, since Hunted Charlie is now listed directly as the replacement for Sutherlands.
Re: Kraj - I'd like to see what Kraj says about this. I am very inclined to believe atlseal here, though. And if atlseal is lying, he can hopefully be vigged at night and spare us using an entire next day to get him.
Re: loran/Xyre- hey ZDS, how is it scummy for them to disbelieve atlseal? Probably wrong- ya. But if they're scum and get a town atlseal mislynched today, that's not going to look good for them.. and if they're scum and atlseal is town, then they'd be doing it to protect... a cult leader? It doesn't quite work out. One or both could be cultists, but if not then they're just sincere and wrongheaded. But thanks for just randomly slapping them with an "incredibly scummy" badge without explanation.
Re: LJustus's death - Doesn't anyone recall that LJ claimed something would happen to anyone who killed him? Either the scum are very ballsy and called his bluff, or else something is not quite right here.
Oh, and re: cp. If his ability is limited use that obviously raises questions, but I don't have any burning need to see him use it today particularly. So long as he can do it later.
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I'll probably wait on atlseal as well before composing my thoughts on today.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
Hot dogs or hambugers anyone? I just found this really cool George Foreman grill in the store over there. Thought I might as well make use of it and enjoy my stay in Club Hellhole.
Wait, did Xyre say something about Ice Cream? Wow, that would really go well with the dogs and 'burgers. How about bringing some of that to the party. It's been a while since I had a good ice cream cone.
There was this little town back where I'm from. My mom used to take me there every so often. We'd stop at this great ice cream shop. They made the best home made ice cream. The store was decked out as an old fashion ice cream parlor. Waffle cones, fresh and crispy. Racing the sun to see which could devour the most ice cream the quickest, rivulets streaming down over my pale hand.
My hand...no...not my hand. You can take my legs, I don't care about them. But my hand, my hands, you can't take them. They're my life. You see, I'm a concert pianist. My hands are my life. My legs mean nothing to me.
Me...What am I to do? I need an answer. Yes, an answer. The answer. What doth say thee, atlseal? What answer do thine have?
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Vote: Kraj, I figured I'd investigate a player that nobody could realistically have any tells on. Lo and behold, he's a virus upon this world. Kraj is the cult leader, Agent Smith.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Anyhow, Vote Atlseal. We got his "investigation" , and its hardly believable. I think lynching him today (especially since he's a claimed 1 shot) is the right play.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Vote atlseal
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Reading is tech.
So I've heard.
However, that doesn't make me any more comfortable with your claim, because your role is too powerful for a reasonable townie, but could easily be cobbled together by a mafia. I'll stick with my vote for now.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Loran dies tomorrow. I cannot believe we have a claimed power role, who is claiming to have caught scum, and Loran votes FOR THE CLAIMED POWER ROLE!
No matter how you look at it, the correct lynch is Kraj. Because if we lynch him and it turns out that ATL was telling the truth, then YAY! we know to trust ATL a little bit more!
The only problem with this is that if he is telling the truth you let the cult have another night. However, cults tend to work different ways (leader only can recruit, or any of them can recruit, win conditions, etc.) in different games. The last time we saw Agent Smith cults was in Elegant, which was extremely disruptive to the entire game due to the change to the players that were recruited and then entered the deadpile.
Combine this possibility with Athos' non-participation in Day 1, and I think that Kraj is a better lynch today, and even if he is correct in this, I still don't trust atlseal's alignment one bit (the mafia have a vested interest in eliminating the cult as well) and think atlseal should be vig'd tonite.
And if we lynch him and he turns out to be town we've wasted a lynch on a townie on day 2. Not to mentiont he fact that Atl was the scummiest player for all of day 1.
I mean, i was for lettin him live day 1 and everything to see what he did, but this just smells like scum tryin to cause another mislynch before he is inevitably lynched.
Anyhow, i gotta go to the gym, then a met game. So i might not be on till later.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Seems a little rediculous.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
1) No he wasn't. Cyan was.
2) If he turns up town, YAYAYAYAYA! We caught ATL lying to us! Dead scum is good!
3) I will trade 1 mislynch for 1 scum life each and everygame day. In fact, I encourage the scum to do this. When we force you to claim, claim a power role, trick us into mislynching once and then we lynch you the next day. Let's continue that trend and see who wins this game.
Is there some problem with reading my posts or something?
Actually, seems awesome. There's no way we could loose. I'd ask to be recruited ASAP and we'd stop lynching people. It would be the ultimate "everyone wins" role.
Wait... who is ATLSEAL and when did he join this game? <___<
Oh, of course youll do a 1 for 1. But this is with a player who already was highly suspect, and imo by far more scummy than cyan (Cyan's biggest hole was his unbelievable roleclaim really). This is a player who's the likely lynch ANYHOW, and now instead of just being lynched on day 2, we lynch a random person today instead.
Heck, what if Atl WAS a scum cop, and found out kraj to be a power role? When Kraj claimed power, would you continue to vote him?
I still think atl's the play. Mind you' he's a claimed 1 shot, so its not like he's goin to give us anything else (he's effectively a 1-shot vig now).
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Now, assume for a sec atlseal and myself are both town. Why would the scum RB the claimed weak flavor-cop and not RB the claimed supercop (gets role and name)? Something is fishy here.
If scum were going for a ploy, why not try to take out power or leadership?
Why strap a bomb to your chest and run into the WORST PLAYER in the town? You know, the one who didn't even play?
If you're scum, why investigate Athos/Kraj? Makes no sense. You don't do it. You investigate a leader or someone giving out power vibes.
Your theory makes no sense.
The only way he actually investigates Kraj is if he's telling the truth.
So either he's scum with a TERRIBLE plot to suicide and take out a useless townie (No insult Kraj, you might be great, but Athos was useless) or he's just handed us scum.
You tell me which of those two is more plausible?
And no, claiming power now will not save Kraj. I've seen too many scum go "he's not the cop! I am the cop! Beleieve mEEEEEEE!" when they get fingered.
Why would they roleblock you when they can roleblock Axelrod?
Why would they roleblock you when they can roleblock the bodyguard and kill Axelrod?
Maybe because they didn't need to?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
That's not to say that 6 scum is especially likely, or that role abilities don't affect that, but I don't think we ought to be thrilled when the mafia play that way.
Vote Kraj.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
You are right, I should have been more clear with my wording there. What I meant was that "all cult members have the ability to recruit, but only one may recruit per night." The way that it came out is obverly more broken than Tolarian Academy
If the set is designed where we have to hit at better than 50% in order to win this game, the setup is completely broken in half in favor of the mafia and SK. You can't ask a town to do that. If the town hits at 40% they should be in the game on the last day. That's not a made up stat, either. I actually figured out hit rates over a pool of about 30 games at MT and ML and looked at games won vs lost.
But I understand the point you are making (about starting on day 3, etc).
Also, in my post above, I mentioned roleblocking the bodyguard... but now that I think about it, I think Cyan said that he couldn't be RB'd to kill Conner.
Vote Kraj.
He mentioned it Here in post #1293.
PPE: For Grak quote while I was searching for that post.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
This is a no-brainer, really, (lynching Kraj).
The kill last night tells me that either LJustus was going to die regardless of who was targeted (hence, sacrificial lamb which would explain his adamant stance in wanting to be lynched to get his ability used) or that someone wasn't afraid of any potential repercussions that he'd claimed being targeted by a NK would bring. That speaks of either a mafia godfather presence or a serial killer with immunity, IMHO.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Wow, alot can happen in 3 hours time. Loran's reaction here seems really, really suspect to me. For one thing, it really sounds like he's speaking from a position of inside knowledge. Plus, this situation is win-win for the town..I can't see why he'd want to just lynch atlseal.
@alx: If you were RBed, you would most likely know it. Having an activated ability and being RBed almost always results in you receiving some kind of flavor message. The person you targetted being untargetable makes alot more sense.
Okay, say we had a game in which the town made it to Day 11, with an SK and a mafia being the only extra kills. According to this, 4 mafia should be dead, and there would have been 30 total kills at the maximum. So say there are still even chances for the mafia and the town at this point: 1 mafia and two town. So you're saying that a game in which there are 33 players and 5 mafia and 1 SK is balanced, and that the town should be able to mislynch at least 6 times before reaching LyLo? 'Cause to me, that seems like an awfully easy game for the town, and that they've been playing abysmally.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
Also, I'd like for CP to prove that he still has 3 votes, by applying them to Kraj. That would be enough votes for Kraj to claim. I know that him claiming is kind of a formality, but, I learned my lesson regarding that in Elegant Mafia.
Wait... what?
Vanilla setup and the numbers you provided...
33 players with 27 of them being townies (27 points, + 3 cop, +3 doc)
1 SK
5 Mafia (20 points + 4 for the SK = 24 points)
....is not balanced. That favors the town by a score of 33 to 24.
My general rule is the town should be able to mislynch 3 times to open the game before they hit Lylo.
I am not sure I understand what we are discussing....
The town needs to hit at a rate of > 40% to be competitive. Which means 4 hits out of every 10 lynches.
which means 4 hits and 6 misses.
Like, ok, a balanced setup is normally 25 players total, 5 mafia, 1 SK (25 points for the town, 24 points for the mafia). if they open by lynching 4 straight scum, then mislynch 6 times after that you'd have something like 2 townies, 1 SK and 1 mafia left in the last game day. As you can see, that is the DEAD ON borderline for the town. If they do 1 better, they should win (3 townies vs 1 scum). If they do 1 worse, they have no shot of winning (1 townie vs 2 mafia and an SK). But at the 40% mark, they can no-lynch and put the game back in the hands of the scum to decide.
the 40% is not a rule for designing games... it is not PRESCRIPTIVE it is DESCRIPTIVE. It is the observed threshold where towns are competitive in the end game. Towns that lynch below it lose handily, towns that lynch above it usually win.
And games are not normally this simple... on average, the mafia miss on atleast on kill per game. Sometimes more. Townies sometimes get extra kills via a vig. etc. etc.
Oh and ! FoS Hawkeye. Your ending day vote was very bad timed : we were waiting for whether the mason partner should claim or not. Faking to think you put him at lynch -1 was not great either.
Shall we proceed with this again, before we lynch Kraj ?
If we're at 8 votes, Unvote. I really want CP to prove(probably everyday, no reason not to) that he still has 3 votes.
Spoon: did you do that to me last Night? Just yes or no.
Xyre: am I supposed to know what you are talking about, or are you being coy?
Why is Hunted Charlie authorized to replace "MJM?" Who is MJM if it's not MatJoeMan who is not, as far as I know, in this game?
Alx2 claiming a RB is slightly suspicious. Because if he's town then it's true that the scum likely would have higher priority targets than someone who claimed he sometimes might get a role-name with no indication of that player's alignment. The only reason they would do this would be if they had reason to lie about role-names.
I wonder though if LJustus just sucked up the scum nightkill/kills last night as part of his role. I'd have been very surprised if anyone targeted him after what he said yesterday.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
I'm interested in the fact that Kraj hasn't shown yet. I want to see CP's extra votes, but I also want Kraj to talk.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I shift my eyes to the slowly growing pile of bodies with burial shrouds of flies and maggots. Look what happened to those that showed weakness. That's not the way I plan on having my story end.
I look up, suspicion clouding my judgment like gambling clouds a gambler's common sense, as I listen to what atlseal has to say.
"I found something last night", atlseal claims. He confidently jabs a finger in the direction of the guy over by the bookstore, sending my mind careening back to memories of the tales told of Babe Ruth calling his shot.
"Him, he's our target. He's a deviant, some sort of leader that looks to infect the rest of us." Atlseal is sure of himself, as his words spew forth like honey to the starving masses, as he feeds the new meat to the slavering dogs
My first reaction is to think it's too easy. He takes a shot in the dark, picking on the new guy and he finds an enemy? Maybe atlseal should start playing the lottery with that kind of luck.
I shake my head. His investigation does nothing to prove atlseal to me. Sure he's offering a reasonable target, but it’s not a scum. Eliminating an infection is good, but a scum buddy could have fed it to him. I’m still thinking he needs to go.
I chuckle as I watch the hotheaded types throw their lot into the center, claiming atlseal to be scum and voting. It doesn’t surprise me that the two fastest draws are loran and Xyre, both of whom wore suspicion yesterday like a bride wears her wedding gown.
I take a seat closer to the center and watch as the arguments begin. Voices rise, fingers jab and fists ball up. Maybe a mistaken word might be uttered or a shred of information might come bubble to the surface. Hopefully something interesting occurs.
A late arrival, makes me chuckle. I wonder if Axelrod might be having flashbacks, as he wonders aloud about someone whose here, but yet isn’t.
In the end, none of this really matters much. It seems as if people have already made their decisions for today. It’s all a matter of waiting for others to show up. I pull out my voting chit and slowly finger it, knowing that if I hadn’t lost my capacities previously, my vote would be on Kraj.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Uh... not as far as I know, Axel.
MJM replaced Suth in some sort of probably role based ability in the lynch scene yesterday. I guess he wasn't able to act as a replacement, and HC is being 'authorized' to take over.
This is not an answer.
And now that Spoon has chimed in I'll say that what happened to me last night did not have anything to do with "Ice Cream." It did, however, have something to do with a spoon.
So, let me get this straight.
You think that keeping the second mason from claiming was so vitally important that I faked missing Hvir’s vote for himself?
(Caution - Sarcastic Hyperbole to follow)
You got me.
Yep, it was all I could do to force myself to wait the 3 minutes to make it look legit.
Oh, no wait, I would have had to have checked preview, while putting together the lengthy post with quotes that built the case I based my vote on, and seen Hvir vote for himself, something that everyone figured he would do. Then, when I saw that post by Hvir and realized what a tremendous opportunity I had to hammer his lynch AND prevent the second mason from claiming. I had to hurry up my post so that I posted it as close to Hvir’s as possible. That way it would look like I actually didn’t see Hvir’s post voting for himself and my vote for him could be the lynching vote and I would have this Really Great defense for being the lynch vote.
Yeah. That was it.
Oh and welcome to the game, err back to the game J.
So, I’ll wait to hear from Kraj and others before I vote for him, Kraj that is.
I would very much like to see CP’s multiple votes again.
I am not in favor of the second mason coming out just yet.
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
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Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
Re: Kraj - I'd like to see what Kraj says about this. I am very inclined to believe atlseal here, though. And if atlseal is lying, he can hopefully be vigged at night and spare us using an entire next day to get him.
Re: loran/Xyre- hey ZDS, how is it scummy for them to disbelieve atlseal? Probably wrong- ya. But if they're scum and get a town atlseal mislynched today, that's not going to look good for them.. and if they're scum and atlseal is town, then they'd be doing it to protect... a cult leader? It doesn't quite work out. One or both could be cultists, but if not then they're just sincere and wrongheaded. But thanks for just randomly slapping them with an "incredibly scummy" badge without explanation.
Re: LJustus's death - Doesn't anyone recall that LJ claimed something would happen to anyone who killed him? Either the scum are very ballsy and called his bluff, or else something is not quite right here.
Re: Vamp - are you claiming you can't vote?