I am planning on posting on all of those issues and only didn't due to a hectic real life weekend. Heck, I had to post at 1 in the morning to say anything at all.
I've got some free time now, though, so I'll give my opinions on everything I brought up in that last post.
Xyre (AKA keep beating the horse): I've stated my opinion here. I don't trust him, but I don't think we should lynch him. Yet.
Cubus' state of being: I'm really not sure what to think about this, but I'm guessing that it's just some weird game mechanic. He doesn't seem to want to talk about it, and that's fine with me. If it starts noticably affecting the game we can grill him on it, and otherwise we can treat him like anyone else until he feels the need to speak up.
Swinkee's / Dagger's / someone else's posting restriction: Witht a day night cycle I expected some sort of related posting restriction. Not much more to say about Dagger / Kenji, etc.
Swinkee, on the other hand, makes me think more. He's probably just possessed (or something), but I also think it's possible, however unlikely, there's info to be gleaned from his random spouts of bolded demonic chatter.
Oh, and DYH hasn't posted yet.
Cyan, Hyram, or myself being suspicious: We're getting somewhere here. Talking about people and whether or not they're suspicious is what this game is supposed to be all about.
I'll start easy: I don't think I'm scummy.
Cyan is just being Cyan to me. He's attacking people personally over a reasonable topic, they're attacking him personally because they disagree with him, and everyone's ending up unhappy and unconvinced. Yay.
But seriously, I don't think he's especially acting up. I understand his position enough that I was willing to follow it for a while, and now I'm against doing so. I don't have a read on him yet.
Hyram looks like he has made a standard day 1 error of doing something relatively scummy, probably enough so to get him lynched if he doesn't come up with a decent defense or claim. I don't have a problem with his wagon. Sure, I'll unvote, Vote Hyram.
Top 3 scum lists: I didn't say anyone I thought was scummy in those last couple paragraphs, and I know I'll be critisized for fence-sitting, barning, and so on if I don't contribute something. So here's some things of note regarding other players (note that I don't care if other people do this or not, and don't have a problem if they go after Hyram):
CPE is doing his usual lurk-while-posting routine wherein he posts a fair amount but basically says nothing. I hate this. I'm pretty sure he does it more often as scum than as town, because I remember seeing him post a lot of stuff that's just stupid as town rather than say basically nothing at all.
WoD is pulling a similar gig, where he's had two posts with any sort of content: 1 where he said
sure, why not [go after Xyre]. Unvote, Vote Xyre
in post 36, and in 170 where he said
Now that Xyre has claimed, I think it is bad to lynch him. like, ever. with that role, omfg, the town should not be able to lose.
I think we've established that Xyre's claimed role is probably not Xyre's true role (at least in full), or that if it is, it doesn't matter because we've basically got this game in the bag. That is, barring something extremely weird.
*cough*
LFR is also doing something like that.
Other than that, no one has stuck out for me. Obviously ZDS and Cyan have both caught my eye as their debate has so far been center stage, but neither grabbed it in a particularly scummy way (besides the fact that I don't like ZDS's playstyle).
Looking back, isn't Xyre really only half a cop, albeit essentially untargetable? We lynch, and presumably have deaths, during both the day and a night period, while he only reveals at night. I didn't realize that at first.
For the record, I think that ZDS might be right about the whole 'random player's alignment revealed' is a fancy way of saying that he tells us the alignment of people whom die at night. I think the attempt at deception/subterfuge is particularly lame, especially from a mod that is trying to play in the game or something, but, it is still a valid point. I think that just ignoring Xyre is probably the best course of action until he can be tested somehow.
Also, because someone mentioned DYH, I think that he has a posting restriction. That is the only logical answer for his lack of content thus far. Besides, I know for a fact that at least one player in this game has a PR.
Loran also brings up a point that I think is highly valid. Cubus essentially faked being dead to avoid participating in the game, and that doesn't sit well with me at all. Especially the whole 'go town' bit. I'm highly suspicious of him now.
What were you trying to achieve by making it seem Cyan was diverting our attention ?
I wasn't making it seem like Cyan was diverting our attention. He was, and has. The first look at Ged was for virtually no reason. I'll use the same analogy Cyan used. Cyan looked like a player whose push was defeated and was looking for a new target to point out to the town.
Quote from ZDS »
Do you have a reason to be maintaining (y)our eyes on him, or are you just scum exploiting an apparent opening ?
Cyan doesn't particularily spark my attention right now. His previously scummy acts are still, well, scummy. But at present I'm more interested in what Cubus has to say for himself.
Quote from SG »
Last time you did not explain really much at all. I am unsure where those replies came from but it had little actual relevance to the current discussion. Also, how many games have you been in? In those, how many times have you been scum?
3. None.
I think we should just ignore Xyre for now. Let's see what his alleged ability turns up.
Quote from Xyre, Daylist »
The Undead 1. WellOfLostGnomes 2. Ged 3. chamber serge 4. ZeDorkSlipeur 5. Wrath of Dog
Quote from Xyre, Nightlist »
The Insomniacs 1. WellOfLostGnomes 2. Ged 3. chamber serge 4. ZeDorkSlipeur 5. Wrath of Dog
Ok, so those are exactly the same.
Quote from Xyre, Daylist »
6. Dagger
Quote from Xyre, Nightlist »
6. Jobie
So Dagger is inserted on the daylist as the #6 player.
Kenji and MS are both inserted into the nightlists. MS hasn'tposted and neither has Kenji. I'm not sure that because DYH hasn't posted the lists represent who has posting restrictions and what not. Because DYH is the only person who violates that rule. I'm willing to go on a limb and say that these list represent something as well as PRs. Kenji and MS haven't posted today which I think indicates a night restriction. I think that DYH has a Posting restriction thats not based on Day/Night.
Looking at the wording of the lists. The Un(Meaning Not?)dead. The Insomniacs. I'm assuming they don't mean anything.
Quote from Squiggler »
unvote vote loran16, for the terrible voting rationale on Cubus.
This is what I call 'terrible voting rationale,' loran was pointing out Cubus' very very very scummy play of staying under the radar, and you vote him? FOS: Squiggler
Something interesting perhaps is that although Cubus is 'dead.' He never received a N0 death scene. He started dead. His not posting is highly suspect because it creates confusion. I think that's enough to warrant a Vote: Cubus.
Unvote: Xyre, Vote: Hyram I would like to hear some sort of claim.
I do not like the way Cubus is posting either, but I think Hyram is the bigger fish to fry.
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I haven't been posting because I haven't had a lot to say, is all. I'm still trying to get my head around the game.
From what I can see after doing a reread, Hyram seems to be struggling a little. The vote on Cubus doesn't do anything for me, either. Vote Hyram., pending a claim.
I'm Agent John Freedman of the US Government. I'm a slow single-shot vig. My chosen target has about a week before they die. My role PM doesn't give me a more definite time frame.
I'm Agent John Freedman of the US Government. I'm a slow single-shot vig. My chosen target has about a week before they die. My role PM doesn't give me a more definite time frame.
You may use your ability at any time? A week in actual time? A week in game time?
I'm Agent John Freedman of the US Government. I'm a slow single-shot vig. My chosen target has about a week before they die. My role PM doesn't give me a more definite time frame.
Hmm, I'm generally wary of vig claims, but at this point in time, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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I think that claim is A)early and B)pretty weak. It's awfully easy for something to 'accidentally happen' to your vig target when he doesn't die until a week after you target him.
Then I suggest we pick a target for a Hyram and have him fire now, so that we see some results before this day goes on too long.
I suggest loran, Cyan, or bertrand.
IGMEOY Arimnaes
First of all, you don't have a vig fire (even a dayvig) just to see the results. Especially day 1. That's what we call bad play.
Furthermore, the only one of your 3 who ANY of us have had any discussions about is Cyan. If you're going to name me or bertrand, you might as well give some reasoning that you think we're worth vigging. seriously.
@Squiggler-Ummm no. I have reason to believe Cyan, its cuz he's playing in a certain way that reminds me of another game in which he was town (Verona mafia). I love you make me out to be scummy for supporting Cyan, when you do yourself in your own post.
@about hyram's claim. It came rather early and Hyram's posting was rather suspicious. moreover, the ability is very possible on a scum (Delayed killing Sks are not unusual...) I'm not really sure where I stand on this one.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
How gracious of you. If he should fire at anyone to 'test' his ability(and subsequently theirs), it should be Xyre.
No, that really doesn't make sense. He's claimed a cop ability, which is publicly revealed and wholly testable. You just want him dead because you're pissed off at him and/or are scum.
Quote from bertrand »
Erm, explain please.
For missing the boat (possibly intentionally) in #161 and fence-sitting in #152. I have yet to see you commit to really solid opinion.
First of all, you don't have a vig fire (even a dayvig) just to see the results. Especially day 1. That's what we call bad play.
Not when the vig in question needs to fire if he's going to prove his ability. Especially when we have to sit around waiting to see if this ability exists or not.
Quote from loran16 »
Furthermore, the only one of your 3 who ANY of us have had any discussions about is Cyan. If you're going to name me or bertrand, you might as well give some reasoning that you think we're worth vigging. seriously.
@Squiggler-Ummm no. I have reason to believe Cyan, its cuz he's playing in a certain way that reminds me of another game in which he was town (Verona mafia). I love you make me out to be scummy for supporting Cyan, when you do yourself in your own post.
That's a pretty dumb reason. You think he's town because of metagame reasons stemming from a completely different game type? What about his actions is this game?
I don't know where you get the notion that I support Cyan, considering my position (leave Xyre alone) is basically the opposite of Cyan's (kill Xyre.) Sounds like you're either not reading carefully enough or you're just making stuff up.
No, that really doesn't make sense. He's claimed a cop ability, which is publicly revealed and wholly testable. You just want him dead because you're pissed off at him and/or are scum.
I guess you missed the numerous people speculating that Xyre's 'cop' ability is really just the Mod revealing the 'alignment' of players that died at night. And no, I don't want him dead because I'm pissed off at him, I want to test his theoretical 're-target at random' ability because I think he is lying.
@Cyan: obviously he's lying. Why is that a reason to lynch him? Considering the situation, and based on the information we have available (none), any possible argument for lynching him at this point is completely WIFOM.
@Hyram: Hi scum. Vote stays. Even if you could prove your claim, a single kill is a much likelier role on a mafia than a town.
@arimnaes: 1) He's only claimed a single shot. "Confirming" him would be a complete waste. 2) You'd need to do a lot better than that anyway if you thought the town would go along with a quick kill on a random player for no obvious reason. Any chance you feel like actually forming a case worthy of a kill before you start suggesting stuff like that?
@Squiggler: playstyle examination is a valid form of analysis. Cyan always plays without thinking his ideas through. The fact that he's doing it in this game doesn't mean anything special.
I want to point out that a speedlynch would be an even worse idea in this game than in most, since we are expected to turn in actions before the lynch. I'm fairly confident in the Hyram wagon, but everyone needs to chime in and say that they're prepared, one way or the other, for the end of the day, so we don't go accidentally missing actions.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
The manner in which I play never, ever fails to result in some foolhardy scum trying to run up a lynch on me for what they perceive as weak arguing on my part, only to inevitably have this blow in in their face.
@Squiggler. I just found out that you were Jathan/UnvoteVotePod. Good to know. And no my reasons were logical. A real town player would never purposefully lurk, and cubus is an active poster here.
@CP: My read toward Cyan is similar to a read in court mafia.
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Honestly, him firing to prove he has a kill will do nothing to clear him in any way, so there is no reason for a townie to ask for an extra kill on Day one. If Hyram isn't lieing, and we believe Xyre, Hyram will essentially be killing a random person, and they will die without any warning in a week. I think that DK a random townie D1 will provide us with very little positive information, and has a chance of having severly negative consequences. I think we should just continue to pay close attention to Hyram, and if he continues to post like scum, lynch him, and hope he doesn't send in the kill before we do so.
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Just to clarify, the only reason that I'm in favor of Xyre being targeted by Hyram is because I think Xyre is lying to us about people targetting him being randomly redirected. If Xyre isn't being targeted, then, I don't think anyone should be.
And honestly, I don't really believe Hyram to begin with, and I think we should just lynch him as the best option.
Well I see some minor scum tells and one major one. arimnaes, I am looking at you. Having a single shot vig prove his ability just to clear himself is very anti town thinking. I want a much better explanation out of him. FoS: arimnaes
Hyram is next on my investigative list. I dont think he claimed to early after doing a reread. Multiple called for a Hyram claim and he did so. But even under al this I do not want you to test your ability day one just to clear yourself. What I dont like is how in post #230
Quote from "Hyram" »
My chosen target has about a week before they die. My role PM doesn't give me a more definite time frame.
But two posts later in #232
Quote from "Hyram" »
Yes. Anytime. A week actual time.
What made you more certain after SorryGuy questioned you?
Xyre, Can I get a vote count? I would be comfortable voting Hyram right now but I do not want to lynch him without a little more discussion.
It seems sort of silly to ridicule a company for marketing efforts. Of course they are going to hype upcoming products, every company on the face of the planet does it, and it works, thats why they do it. There isn't really any sense complaining about it. If you don't like the marketing, ignore it.
No, that really doesn't make sense. He's claimed a cop ability, which is publicly revealed and wholly testable. You just want him dead because you're pissed off at him and/or are scum.
I'm 90% sure the cop ability si revealing the alignment of dead players. The random lynch instead thing could just mean that his lynch does nothing and the day goes on until we get someone else.
Though Cyan being so determined makes me think there's more to this than Xyre roleplaying and messing with us. He knows something.
For missing the boat (possibly intentionally) in #161 and fence-sitting in #152. I have yet to see you commit to really solid opinion.
Fence-sitting intentionally all the time is a scum tell. But one fence-sitting post? Come on! It's completely normal for a townie, especially in an insane game like this one, to be confused, and unsure of what to do. I still don't know whether Xyre's lynch/vigging is a good idea. And I'm sure no one else knows for sure (except maybe Cyan).
BTW, I believe Hyram has that ability. His alignment is questionable, but I don't see much more reason for him to be scum than anyone else.
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@Squiggler. I just found out that you were Jathan/UnvoteVotePod. Good to know.
Nope.
Quote from loran16 »
And no my reasons were logical. A real town player would never purposefully lurk, and cubus is an active poster here.
1. He had a valid reason to lurk for a few days at the start, namely, to see what the reaction would be to him being "dead."
2. The other reason you gave was that he must be undead, and therefore scum. Which is utter bollocks.
I'm 90% sure the cop ability si revealing the alignment of dead players. The random lynch instead thing could just mean that his lynch does nothing and the day goes on until we get someone else.
Random speculation. Instead of drawing conclusions, why not assume, at least for now, that he -might- be telling the truth? More likely than your scenario, I think.
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1. WellOfLostGnomes - early support for lynching either Xyre or Cubus to 'see what happens'. Defends SG as likely town. Continues to support mod-lynching. Expresses further dismay at how screwed up this game is. Insists that good things can come from a Xyre lynch, bandwagon analysis and reactions. CP points out the flaw in that strategy which I had also alluded to earlier with my comment to Loran. Allays putting me off until tomorrow and the concept I cannot be part of the scum group. Not sure the logic is sound, but the result is true. Quickly accepts Hyram's claim, but an eye should be kept on him. Strongly leaning scum. He is supportive of both plays early that drive no positive results for the town - lynching either of Xyre or Cubus is the least viable information source, and his immediate acceptance of Hyram's claim stinks of scum trying to back out of a townie wagon growing too quickly.
2. Ged - Originall opposed to a modlynch.Votes getting drunk. Flops on voting me, stating that I've used "bad logic, distraction" and that he 'wants to see what happens.' Unvotes after I point out he is following leads like a sheep. Comments on wackiness of game. Wants to get off the Xyre conversation, brings up some other topics for discussion. Puts together a small info dump, names CPE, WoD, and LFR on his scummy list. Assumes DYH has a PR. I felt pretty good about Ged until his info dump post. Picking three people who have pretty much lurked is almost equivalent to fence-sitting which he's knowingly trying to avoid doing. Neutral read with a slight tick scummy from that post.
3. chamber serge - I did not bother looking back at chamber's posts, only serge's contribution. His question to Hyram is valid- his tone did change from the original claim to the answer on time. His FoS of Arimnaes also displays a strong sense of towniness to me. Good read so far.
4. ZeDorkSlipeur - Votes me in effort to force claim and eventual vigging, does not see the merit of a modlynch. Makes some intelligent comments and pushes Cyan to answer questions asked of him. Starts the case on Hyram, which I'm currently seeing as a good lead. Leaning strongly town.
5. Wrath of Dog - States he opposed to lynching the mod. Then votes Xyre less than one hour later. Hasn't added much content. Currently on the Hyram wagon. Playing his typical game, which means I have very little to go on. No read yet.
6. Dagger - voted mod in first post, retracted vote after I spoke. Made some very valid points in the argument with Cyan about the "liar's paradox". Interesting, though, that he 'awaits Hyram's response' in his last post,but makes no mention of how he feels about it. If Hyram is lynched and turns up scum, this particular point makes him look very bad. That aside, his other content gave me townie vibes on the whole. 7. Jobie - Three whole posts, votes Apple Pie, me, and now Hyram, while tossing suspicion on Cubus. Not much here, must post more.
8. Loran16 - Initially votes Cubus, considers voting me, does so, never responds to my comment, mocks the replacement, gives a town read on Cyan (mentions a read in Court- Cyan wasn't in Court Mafia), is suspicious of Arimnaes, and says a town player would never purposefully lurk. This coming from one of MTGS more prolific post-count posters who has kept a rather low-profile this game- I'm suspicious. Strongly leaning scum.
9. Fayul - Ugh, ONE post. At least it made sense. Please contribute.
10. Disrupt_Your_Hymm - MIA
11. creampuffeater - Every one of his posts revolves around beating off the modlynch (thanks!), but I'd like to see him generate some thoughts around other players. His vote is on Cyan, but that's primarily due to the bad push he made to waste the town's lynch today. Neutral feeling until he presents input on others.
12. squiggler - Few posts, but I agree with every single point he's made. Loran is acting scummy, Cyan is being his stubborn townie self, and loran is trying to look good protecting him. The attack of Cubus was lame. Strongly leaning town
13. stormblind - Few posts, mainly speculation, keeps bringing up Cubus. No read yet.
14. Cyan - Oh, Cyan, where to begin? Actively wants to see me swing for no reason other than I'm the mod (and he says I've acted scummy, but let's be honest, he hates the idea I'm posting). Very vocal, very opinionated, and in this case very wrong. Needs to work over the conceptual problems he has with the game and focus on playing. In retrospect, I think he'd be too cautious as a scum to push this assault for the reasons I discounted it as a bad idea earlier. Leaning townie
15. SorryGuy - Absolutely town until we see some reason to believe he's not really a multi-voter. Town
16. Hyram - Torn here. His recent posts have given me great pause, and the claim is iffy. I thought his content early in the day was good, though. Whatever the case, I think his alignment ties strongly to two players I mentioned earlier, WOLG and Dagger. Unsure.
17. Arimnaes - His content has been very solid, playing devil's advocate and pushing good questions. The idea of testing Hyram was questionable, but I can see where he's coming from, particularly involving loran in the list of targets. Strongly leaning town.
18. carrion_pigeons - I feel as though he's been leading the town, which is great if he's good, horrible if he's scum. Good news is that I'm getting solid logic reads out of CP, which is generally a strong indicator he's town. He tends to convolute things and pass off half-truths as legitimate logic as a scum, and I haven't seen that yet. strongly leaning town
19. Swinkee - Very bizarre posting restriction, it seems. Wants to vig me instead of lynch. Has disappeared again per his usual game play. Neutral read, please participate.
20. LookingforReality - Not as much content as I've seen historically, but legitimate question to Hyram. Would prefer vigging over lynching me. Not leaning either way. 21. Bertrand - Seems to think Cyan is hiding something. Would prefer to wait for investigation results before acting on me. Seems to be using rational thought when discussing the day and how it's progressing. Slightly leaning town The Unliving 22. Cubus - Interesting gambit. I wouldn't have the guts to run it as scum, nor do I think many people would. Also, the fact he's being attacked by LoranScum makes me feel much better about him. Can't discount his being neutral, but I'm having a hard time believing mafia. Neutral or town, most likely
Xyre, you're freaking me out. I don't disagree with most of your points, but the mere fact that you made them at all makes me want to lynch you all over again. How can you possibly claim to be impartial as a mod while giving input like that?
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Ugh. Posts like that are simply not acceptable. Wanting to play around in the game and have a little fun when you're the Mod is one thing. Posts like that are another. There is no way that you can know the alignments of the rest of the players and make posts like that. Please, stop.
Ugh. Posts like that are simply not acceptable. Wanting to play around in the game and have a little fun when you're the Mod is one thing. Posts like that are another. There is no way that you can know the alignments of the rest of the players and make posts like that. Please, stop.
He's already in the game, Cyan. Him not posting probably changes the predetermined and approved setup.
What's more, all his analyses were likely made arbitrarily, or were solely based on the principle of "I'll say everyone who's defending me is town, and everyone who's been attacking me is scum."
I highly doubt that there's any relevant information to be gleaned from that post.
While not quite a supporter of the Xyre situation, this is confusing me quite a great deal. I'm truly failing to see how that could be normal or acceptable in.. well... ALOT of ways.
I dont believe Hyram, and ZDS's suggestion of vigging me because im doing something he doesnt like doesnt sit well with me at all.
Unvote, Vote Hyram
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Random speculation. Instead of drawing conclusions, why not assume, at least for now, that he -might- be telling the truth? More likely than your scenario, I think.
I said "I'm 90% sure" and "could be". Seperately. I'm not drawing conclusions. I'm speculating.
Hmm. There's no way imo that someone who knows all the alignments of everyone would make a post like that. It looks to me that Xyre does not know who got which role, or even what roles are in the game.
(Yes, Fayul. This is also random speculation.)
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In post 200 I voted for Hyram. In general I am only going to use one vote as I would have normally. If I feel that applying pressure is necessary, as I did with Xyre, I will use them. If the majority feels they are necessary I will also use them. Does this seem fair to everyone?
Quote from serge »
What made you more certain after SorryGuy questioned you?
I was simply clarifying as he wasn't clear. I do not actually think he was changing his stance or anything along those lines. Not that that is really a point in his favor.
I do not see an ability like one is claiming to have making any sense. Addressing actual time seems strange. Then again, it is a specialty. At any rate I do see such an ability being more likely a SK ability.
As for Cubus, I am not bothered. He never intended to lurk and even if he did he would have had to know he would be prodded. He was looking for reactions and there is nothing wrong with that.
As for Xyre's last post, again, we should ignore him. Once he answers key questions about his role, we should ignore him. The fact he refuses to claim key information is unsurprising but at the same time frustrating. And scummy.
Hold on, i remember in Sin City there was a player who was in the game but wasnt listed on the player list.
Could it be that we have someone playing THROUGH Xyre?
As in, he plays as if he was in the game, but uses Xyre to post said information so we do not know who he is?
The more the game progresses... this seems AMAZINGLY likely as it would explain basically everything.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Hold on, i remember in Sin City there was a player who was in the game but wasnt listed on the player list.
Could it be that we have someone playing THROUGH Xyre?
As in, he plays as if he was in the game, but uses Xyre to post said information so we do not know who he is?
The more the game progresses... this seems AMAZINGLY likely as it would explain basically everything.
In Sin City it was Hvir. I addressed this earlier when someone else purposed it. I think I concluded because of timestamps it wouldn't be possible but considering DYH maybe it is.
Xyre, can we get a prod on DYH?
In Sin City it was Hvir. I addressed this earlier when someone else purposed it. I think I concluded because of timestamps it wouldn't be possible but considering DYH maybe it is.
Xyre, can we get a prod on DYH?
My god, you're probably right. At least, it would certainly explain all of this rather conveniently.
I don't think we ought to lynch either Xyre or DYH today, though. We should wait until night to see if DYH posts then. If he doesn't, this theory will have a lot more credence.
I am Danny Hobbes. I am a gambler. Each night I will reveal the alignment of one player at random. Any abilities that are supposed to target me will instead target a random player. If I am lynched, a random player will die in my stead. (This will only happen once, to my knowledge.)
At night, he reveals the lynched player's alignment. If he's targeted, a random player is targeted instead - the player that got the role which has to play through his account. Same goes if he's lynched. And it'll only happen once because then that player will be dead.
I've got some free time now, though, so I'll give my opinions on everything I brought up in that last post.
Xyre (AKA keep beating the horse): I've stated my opinion here. I don't trust him, but I don't think we should lynch him. Yet.
Cubus' state of being: I'm really not sure what to think about this, but I'm guessing that it's just some weird game mechanic. He doesn't seem to want to talk about it, and that's fine with me. If it starts noticably affecting the game we can grill him on it, and otherwise we can treat him like anyone else until he feels the need to speak up.
Swinkee's / Dagger's / someone else's posting restriction: Witht a day night cycle I expected some sort of related posting restriction. Not much more to say about Dagger / Kenji, etc.
Swinkee, on the other hand, makes me think more. He's probably just possessed (or something), but I also think it's possible, however unlikely, there's info to be gleaned from his random spouts of bolded demonic chatter.
Oh, and DYH hasn't posted yet.
Cyan, Hyram, or myself being suspicious: We're getting somewhere here. Talking about people and whether or not they're suspicious is what this game is supposed to be all about.
I'll start easy: I don't think I'm scummy.
Cyan is just being Cyan to me. He's attacking people personally over a reasonable topic, they're attacking him personally because they disagree with him, and everyone's ending up unhappy and unconvinced. Yay.
But seriously, I don't think he's especially acting up. I understand his position enough that I was willing to follow it for a while, and now I'm against doing so. I don't have a read on him yet.
Hyram looks like he has made a standard day 1 error of doing something relatively scummy, probably enough so to get him lynched if he doesn't come up with a decent defense or claim. I don't have a problem with his wagon. Sure, I'll unvote, Vote Hyram.
Top 3 scum lists: I didn't say anyone I thought was scummy in those last couple paragraphs, and I know I'll be critisized for fence-sitting, barning, and so on if I don't contribute something. So here's some things of note regarding other players (note that I don't care if other people do this or not, and don't have a problem if they go after Hyram):
CPE is doing his usual lurk-while-posting routine wherein he posts a fair amount but basically says nothing. I hate this. I'm pretty sure he does it more often as scum than as town, because I remember seeing him post a lot of stuff that's just stupid as town rather than say basically nothing at all.
WoD is pulling a similar gig, where he's had two posts with any sort of content: 1 where he said
in post 36, and in 170 where he said
I think we've established that Xyre's claimed role is probably not Xyre's true role (at least in full), or that if it is, it doesn't matter because we've basically got this game in the bag. That is, barring something extremely weird.
*cough*
LFR is also doing something like that.
Other than that, no one has stuck out for me. Obviously ZDS and Cyan have both caught my eye as their debate has so far been center stage, but neither grabbed it in a particularly scummy way (besides the fact that I don't like ZDS's playstyle).
Looking back, isn't Xyre really only half a cop, albeit essentially untargetable? We lynch, and presumably have deaths, during both the day and a night period, while he only reveals at night. I didn't realize that at first.
That's what I've got for now.
Also, because someone mentioned DYH, I think that he has a posting restriction. That is the only logical answer for his lack of content thus far. Besides, I know for a fact that at least one player in this game has a PR.
Loran also brings up a point that I think is highly valid. Cubus essentially faked being dead to avoid participating in the game, and that doesn't sit well with me at all. Especially the whole 'go town' bit. I'm highly suspicious of him now.
I wasn't making it seem like Cyan was diverting our attention. He was, and has. The first look at Ged was for virtually no reason. I'll use the same analogy Cyan used. Cyan looked like a player whose push was defeated and was looking for a new target to point out to the town.
Cyan doesn't particularily spark my attention right now. His previously scummy acts are still, well, scummy. But at present I'm more interested in what Cubus has to say for himself.
3. None.
I think we should just ignore Xyre for now. Let's see what his alleged ability turns up.
Ok, so those are exactly the same.
So Dagger is inserted on the daylist as the #6 player.
These two lists are also the same.
Kenji and MS are both inserted into the nightlists. MS hasn'tposted and neither has Kenji. I'm not sure that because DYH hasn't posted the lists represent who has posting restrictions and what not. Because DYH is the only person who violates that rule. I'm willing to go on a limb and say that these list represent something as well as PRs. Kenji and MS haven't posted today which I think indicates a night restriction. I think that DYH has a Posting restriction thats not based on Day/Night.
Looking at the wording of the lists. The Un(Meaning Not?)dead. The Insomniacs. I'm assuming they don't mean anything.
This is what I call 'terrible voting rationale,' loran was pointing out Cubus' very very very scummy play of staying under the radar, and you vote him? FOS: Squiggler
Something interesting perhaps is that although Cubus is 'dead.' He never received a N0 death scene. He started dead. His not posting is highly suspect because it creates confusion. I think that's enough to warrant a Vote: Cubus.
I do not like the way Cubus is posting either, but I think Hyram is the bigger fish to fry.
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From what I can see after doing a reread, Hyram seems to be struggling a little. The vote on Cubus doesn't do anything for me, either. Vote Hyram., pending a claim.
You may use your ability at any time? A week in actual time? A week in game time?
Hmm, I'm generally wary of vig claims, but at this point in time, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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I suggest loran, Cyan, or bertrand.
Erm, explain please.
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First of all, you don't have a vig fire (even a dayvig) just to see the results. Especially day 1. That's what we call bad play.
Furthermore, the only one of your 3 who ANY of us have had any discussions about is Cyan. If you're going to name me or bertrand, you might as well give some reasoning that you think we're worth vigging. seriously.
@Squiggler-Ummm no. I have reason to believe Cyan, its cuz he's playing in a certain way that reminds me of another game in which he was town (Verona mafia). I love you make me out to be scummy for supporting Cyan, when you do yourself in your own post.
@about hyram's claim. It came rather early and Hyram's posting was rather suspicious. moreover, the ability is very possible on a scum (Delayed killing Sks are not unusual...) I'm not really sure where I stand on this one.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
For missing the boat (possibly intentionally) in #161 and fence-sitting in #152. I have yet to see you commit to really solid opinion.
Not when the vig in question needs to fire if he's going to prove his ability. Especially when we have to sit around waiting to see if this ability exists or not.
Fine. I'll PBPA you tomorrow.
I don't know where you get the notion that I support Cyan, considering my position (leave Xyre alone) is basically the opposite of Cyan's (kill Xyre.) Sounds like you're either not reading carefully enough or you're just making stuff up.
I guess you missed the numerous people speculating that Xyre's 'cop' ability is really just the Mod revealing the 'alignment' of players that died at night. And no, I don't want him dead because I'm pissed off at him, I want to test his theoretical 're-target at random' ability because I think he is lying.
@Hyram: Hi scum. Vote stays. Even if you could prove your claim, a single kill is a much likelier role on a mafia than a town.
@arimnaes: 1) He's only claimed a single shot. "Confirming" him would be a complete waste. 2) You'd need to do a lot better than that anyway if you thought the town would go along with a quick kill on a random player for no obvious reason. Any chance you feel like actually forming a case worthy of a kill before you start suggesting stuff like that?
@Squiggler: playstyle examination is a valid form of analysis. Cyan always plays without thinking his ideas through. The fact that he's doing it in this game doesn't mean anything special.
I want to point out that a speedlynch would be an even worse idea in this game than in most, since we are expected to turn in actions before the lynch. I'm fairly confident in the Hyram wagon, but everyone needs to chime in and say that they're prepared, one way or the other, for the end of the day, so we don't go accidentally missing actions.
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@CP: My read toward Cyan is similar to a read in court mafia.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
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And honestly, I don't really believe Hyram to begin with, and I think we should just lynch him as the best option.
Hyram is next on my investigative list. I dont think he claimed to early after doing a reread. Multiple called for a Hyram claim and he did so. But even under al this I do not want you to test your ability day one just to clear yourself. What I dont like is how in post #230
But two posts later in #232
What made you more certain after SorryGuy questioned you?
Xyre, Can I get a vote count? I would be comfortable voting Hyram right now but I do not want to lynch him without a little more discussion.
I'm 90% sure the cop ability si revealing the alignment of dead players. The random lynch instead thing could just mean that his lynch does nothing and the day goes on until we get someone else.
Though Cyan being so determined makes me think there's more to this than Xyre roleplaying and messing with us. He knows something.
Fence-sitting intentionally all the time is a scum tell. But one fence-sitting post? Come on! It's completely normal for a townie, especially in an insane game like this one, to be confused, and unsure of what to do. I still don't know whether Xyre's lynch/vigging is a good idea. And I'm sure no one else knows for sure (except maybe Cyan).
BTW, I believe Hyram has that ability. His alignment is questionable, but I don't see much more reason for him to be scum than anyone else.
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1. He had a valid reason to lurk for a few days at the start, namely, to see what the reaction would be to him being "dead."
2. The other reason you gave was that he must be undead, and therefore scum. Which is utter bollocks.
Random speculation. Instead of drawing conclusions, why not assume, at least for now, that he -might- be telling the truth? More likely than your scenario, I think.
(13 to lynch)
loran16 - 1 (Squiggler)
Cubus - 2 (StormBlind, loran16)
Xyre - 2 (Cyan, SorryGuy)
Fayul - 1 (Swinkee)
Wrath of Dog - 2 (Dagger, Squiggler)
Cyan - 3 (Fayul, Cubus, creampuffeater)
Hyram - 6 (ZeDorkSlipeur, LookingforReality, carrion pigeons, Cyan, Hyram, Wrath of Dog)
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
1. WellOfLostGnomes - early support for lynching either Xyre or Cubus to 'see what happens'. Defends SG as likely town. Continues to support mod-lynching. Expresses further dismay at how screwed up this game is. Insists that good things can come from a Xyre lynch, bandwagon analysis and reactions. CP points out the flaw in that strategy which I had also alluded to earlier with my comment to Loran. Allays putting me off until tomorrow and the concept I cannot be part of the scum group. Not sure the logic is sound, but the result is true. Quickly accepts Hyram's claim, but an eye should be kept on him. Strongly leaning scum. He is supportive of both plays early that drive no positive results for the town - lynching either of Xyre or Cubus is the least viable information source, and his immediate acceptance of Hyram's claim stinks of scum trying to back out of a townie wagon growing too quickly.
2. Ged - Originall opposed to a modlynch.Votes getting drunk. Flops on voting me, stating that I've used "bad logic, distraction" and that he 'wants to see what happens.' Unvotes after I point out he is following leads like a sheep. Comments on wackiness of game. Wants to get off the Xyre conversation, brings up some other topics for discussion. Puts together a small info dump, names CPE, WoD, and LFR on his scummy list. Assumes DYH has a PR. I felt pretty good about Ged until his info dump post. Picking three people who have pretty much lurked is almost equivalent to fence-sitting which he's knowingly trying to avoid doing. Neutral read with a slight tick scummy from that post.
3. chamber serge - I did not bother looking back at chamber's posts, only serge's contribution. His question to Hyram is valid- his tone did change from the original claim to the answer on time. His FoS of Arimnaes also displays a strong sense of towniness to me. Good read so far.
4. ZeDorkSlipeur - Votes me in effort to force claim and eventual vigging, does not see the merit of a modlynch. Makes some intelligent comments and pushes Cyan to answer questions asked of him. Starts the case on Hyram, which I'm currently seeing as a good lead. Leaning strongly town.
5. Wrath of Dog - States he opposed to lynching the mod. Then votes Xyre less than one hour later. Hasn't added much content. Currently on the Hyram wagon. Playing his typical game, which means I have very little to go on. No read yet.
6. Dagger - voted mod in first post, retracted vote after I spoke. Made some very valid points in the argument with Cyan about the "liar's paradox". Interesting, though, that he 'awaits Hyram's response' in his last post,but makes no mention of how he feels about it. If Hyram is lynched and turns up scum, this particular point makes him look very bad. That aside, his other content gave me townie vibes on the whole.
7. Jobie - Three whole posts, votes Apple Pie, me, and now Hyram, while tossing suspicion on Cubus. Not much here, must post more.
8. Loran16 - Initially votes Cubus, considers voting me, does so, never responds to my comment, mocks the replacement, gives a town read on Cyan (mentions a read in Court- Cyan wasn't in Court Mafia), is suspicious of Arimnaes, and says a town player would never purposefully lurk. This coming from one of MTGS more prolific post-count posters who has kept a rather low-profile this game- I'm suspicious. Strongly leaning scum.
9. Fayul - Ugh, ONE post. At least it made sense. Please contribute.
10. Disrupt_Your_Hymm - MIA
11. creampuffeater - Every one of his posts revolves around beating off the modlynch (thanks!), but I'd like to see him generate some thoughts around other players. His vote is on Cyan, but that's primarily due to the bad push he made to waste the town's lynch today. Neutral feeling until he presents input on others.
12. squiggler - Few posts, but I agree with every single point he's made. Loran is acting scummy, Cyan is being his stubborn townie self, and loran is trying to look good protecting him. The attack of Cubus was lame. Strongly leaning town
13. stormblind - Few posts, mainly speculation, keeps bringing up Cubus. No read yet.
14. Cyan - Oh, Cyan, where to begin? Actively wants to see me swing for no reason other than I'm the mod (and he says I've acted scummy, but let's be honest, he hates the idea I'm posting). Very vocal, very opinionated, and in this case very wrong. Needs to work over the conceptual problems he has with the game and focus on playing. In retrospect, I think he'd be too cautious as a scum to push this assault for the reasons I discounted it as a bad idea earlier. Leaning townie
15. SorryGuy - Absolutely town until we see some reason to believe he's not really a multi-voter. Town
16. Hyram - Torn here. His recent posts have given me great pause, and the claim is iffy. I thought his content early in the day was good, though. Whatever the case, I think his alignment ties strongly to two players I mentioned earlier, WOLG and Dagger. Unsure.
17. Arimnaes - His content has been very solid, playing devil's advocate and pushing good questions. The idea of testing Hyram was questionable, but I can see where he's coming from, particularly involving loran in the list of targets. Strongly leaning town.
18. carrion_pigeons - I feel as though he's been leading the town, which is great if he's good, horrible if he's scum. Good news is that I'm getting solid logic reads out of CP, which is generally a strong indicator he's town. He tends to convolute things and pass off half-truths as legitimate logic as a scum, and I haven't seen that yet. strongly leaning town
19. Swinkee - Very bizarre posting restriction, it seems. Wants to vig me instead of lynch. Has disappeared again per his usual game play. Neutral read, please participate.
20. LookingforReality - Not as much content as I've seen historically, but legitimate question to Hyram. Would prefer vigging over lynching me. Not leaning either way.
21. Bertrand - Seems to think Cyan is hiding something. Would prefer to wait for investigation results before acting on me. Seems to be using rational thought when discussing the day and how it's progressing. Slightly leaning town
The Unliving
22. Cubus - Interesting gambit. I wouldn't have the guts to run it as scum, nor do I think many people would. Also, the fact he's being attacked by LoranScum makes me feel much better about him. Can't discount his being neutral, but I'm having a hard time believing mafia. Neutral or town, most likely
Vote: Loran16
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
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He's already in the game, Cyan. Him not posting probably changes the predetermined and approved setup.
I highly doubt that there's any relevant information to be gleaned from that post.
I dont believe Hyram, and ZDS's suggestion of vigging me because im doing something he doesnt like doesnt sit well with me at all.
Unvote, Vote Hyram
I said "I'm 90% sure" and "could be". Seperately. I'm not drawing conclusions. I'm speculating.
Hmm. There's no way imo that someone who knows all the alignments of everyone would make a post like that. It looks to me that Xyre does not know who got which role, or even what roles are in the game.
(Yes, Fayul. This is also random speculation.)
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I was simply clarifying as he wasn't clear. I do not actually think he was changing his stance or anything along those lines. Not that that is really a point in his favor.
I do not see an ability like one is claiming to have making any sense. Addressing actual time seems strange. Then again, it is a specialty. At any rate I do see such an ability being more likely a SK ability.
As for Cubus, I am not bothered. He never intended to lurk and even if he did he would have had to know he would be prodded. He was looking for reactions and there is nothing wrong with that.
As for Xyre's last post, again, we should ignore him. Once he answers key questions about his role, we should ignore him. The fact he refuses to claim key information is unsurprising but at the same time frustrating. And scummy.
Could it be that we have someone playing THROUGH Xyre?
As in, he plays as if he was in the game, but uses Xyre to post said information so we do not know who he is?
The more the game progresses... this seems AMAZINGLY likely as it would explain basically everything.
Still, who knows at this point.
In Sin City it was Hvir. I addressed this earlier when someone else purposed it. I think I concluded because of timestamps it wouldn't be possible but considering DYH maybe it is.
Xyre, can we get a prod on DYH?
No.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Just sayin.
I can not say that I find all of the analysis to be DYHian in its nature, but hey, I am sure he is very restricted.
Vote: DYH. So, is what was claimed DYH? So if we want to lynch DYH who do we vote for, Xyre, or DYH?
I don't think we ought to lynch either Xyre or DYH today, though. We should wait until night to see if DYH posts then. If he doesn't, this theory will have a lot more credence.
PBPA on loran coming up soon.
At night, he reveals the lynched player's alignment. If he's targeted, a random player is targeted instead - the player that got the role which has to play through his account. Same goes if he's lynched. And it'll only happen once because then that player will be dead.
Bam.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I don't think that DYH has any excuse at this point.
Unvote. Vote: Disrupt Your Hymn
I can't find Ged's vote; either that or he unvoted. The other two are correct.
The "Talk to me, Charlie" Vote Count
(13 to lynch)
loran16 - 1 (Squiggler)
Cubus - 2 (loran16)
Xyre - 2 (Cyan)
Fayul - 1 (Swinkee)
Wrath of Dog - 1 (Dagger)
Cyan - 3 (Fayul, Cubus, creampuffeater)
Hyram - 11 (ZeDorkSlipeur, LookingforReality, carrion pigeons, Cyan, Hyram, Wrath of Dog, Jobie, SorryGuy, Ged, StormBlind, Cubus)
Disrupt Your Hymm - 2 (SorryGuy, Hyram)
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia