I support extracting a claim from the mod. We can't expect independent information from him about the setup, but if he gave himself a role, we should rightfully expect it to be something that he can reveal without breaking the game.
That said, the arguments for lynching the mod based on the info we have at the moment are pure BS. I do not support this line of thinking.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Honestly, if Xyre were anyone but the Mod, people would be tripping over their own feet to vote for him at this point. His posts are all ridiculous, from mocking SorryGuy to making ridiculously WIFOM statements like 'why don't you all try finding scum instead' to flatly refusing to claim. It doesn't even matter at this point that he is the Mod, because he has essentially turned himself into a player, and as a player, his actions thus far are absolutely lynch-worthy.
*bangs head into wall*
My logic is sound.
I'll give you that my comment to SorryGuy was a potshot, but it was as ridiculous as his assertion that you all will lynch me without a claim. I'm a bit frustrated at the moment.
@CP: You make a legitimate point. I do have a role, yes. I have a name. I might even have an ability. It's not, however, in the town's best interests for me to reveal any of this information just yet.
Cyan: Are you going after Xyre purely for his behavior? At some points it doesn't look like it.
o_O
What seems even more rediculous is that some people are playing this like a normal (i.e. making the mod claim). He's not gonna claim, folks. DUH. This game is far from normal, and I think we should treat it as such. Speculation is useless.
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The mod with a town role seems extremely, extremely unbalanced favoring the town.
The mod with a scum role is also very unbalanced, although a little less so.
The mod with a neutral ability is by far the most likely situation. The mod with a netural ability should be vigged.
Not necessarily. A mod with a role that doesn't require him to reveal information beyond his role, such as a cop, or target players based on game state, such as a roleblocker, should be fine. For example, he could be merely an untargetable townie, or something (although that would be really frustrating for anyone who was trying to use an information role on him).
I heard of a game, once, in which the mod was self-proclaimed scum, but the town couldn't kill him until the rest of the mafia were dead. Admittedly, this situation isn't very similar, but since we don't really have an idea of what is going on, it's tough to judge whether something akin to that might still be believable.
A neutral mod is definitely a possibility, though. The problem is that if he's neutral, we stand the smallest chance of finding out what's going on. I'm not sure there's much point in assuming this to be the case.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Thank you for providing the exact reason as to why the mod cannot possibly be town. And even if he is, he would never be able to participate in the context of a normal townie(IE: he's not going to just randomly vote for people etc).
I'm confident that his whole reason for 'playing' is to see whether or not he will get lynched or if people will try to NK him etc, and to respond accordingly. It is simply erronous of you to state that nothing good will come of lynching him. How could you possibly know this? As I said before, the Mod didn't present himself in this capacity for no reason. We can be virtually certain that lynching Xyre will have SOME effect. If it does absolutely nothing, then I doubt that we will even go to night, in which case nothing happens except that hopefully Xyre stops posting and being obnoxious.
That's the quickest 180 I've ever seen. 2 posts ago you were, very condescendingly I might add, calling us down for wanting to lynch Xyre. I make one post which you don't even acknowledge, let alone respond to, and your immediate follow up is to vote him as well. Why the change of heart? Not that I'm opposed to it, but it seems a little..off.
Yeah, you still disagree with me. Kind of like how you disagreed w/ me about MMoD being scum in Magic Mafia, right?
point1: Just because I'm wrong once doesn't imply that I will be wrong again
point2: These situations are very different, and shouldn't really be compared.
The fact that you're wrong every time implies that you'll be wrong this time.
And the situations are essentially the same. Some people have a certain thought. You reject that thought out of hand, without ever even remotely bothering to explain why, no matter how much people press you for information on it. Note, I'm not saying it's any kind of tell, because you do this as both scum and town. I'm simply saying that no one should waste their time listening to you because A)it's unlikely that you'll be right and B)you're not going to actually attempt to apply logic to explain your stance(and thus make the town understand it) anyway.
Forgive me if I'm not willing to just take your word for that. Or anything. Given your track record, I fail to see how you can expect anything else. Especially since, as always, you're not doing anything to promote your way of thinking, you're just refusing to go along.
If you have some logical reason as to why this is the correct course of action, I would be happy to here it, and I promise to fully consider it. If it's just going to be more of the same 'I don't provide reasonings for my actions' tripe, then, I think you're just wasting everyone's time.
Forgive me if I'm not willing to just take your word for that. Or anything. Given your track record, I fail to see how you can expect anything else. Especially since, as always, you're not doing anything to promote your way of thinking, you're just refusing to go along.
If you have some logical reason as to why this is the correct course of action, I would be happy to here it, and I promise to fully consider it. If it's just going to be more of the same 'I don't provide reasonings for my actions' tripe, then, I think you're just wasting everyone's time.
I was never asking you to change your mind, just making my opinion on the matter known. Should people follow me blindly? Definitely not. People should come to their own conclusions. If they come to a different conclusion then me, then perhaps I'm wrong, I'll leave it in the hands of the majority to decide.
What is the point in publically stating a stance if you're not willing to provide a reasoning behind it? You are doing absolutely nothing for the town, and honestly, are possibly hindering the town by stubbornly refusing to go along with the town's desires and refusing to explain why.
It's not personal, it's just the same situation in every single game that chamber is ever in. Regardless of how many times it blows up in his face or how awfully it does so, nothing ever changes, and I'm tired of it. The last time, the end result was that chamber single-handedly gave the win to the mafia. I sat idly by, dead, frustrated beyond belief as soon as he started that play because I knew it was a lie. I'm not going to sit idly by and watch that happen. His lame false-claiming also screwed the town in L5R Mafia, and his refusal to listen to even his own mafia buddies made the endgame of Trek Mafia significantly more difficult than it should have been. Forgive me if I have no faith whatsoever in him, but he has earned this.
If any person cannot logically explain why they feel the way that they do, then they should take a step back and examine their own stance and whether or not it is really valid. In mafia, if it is not logical, it is probably a lie.
In case it wasn't clear,as I realized what I said could be taken two ways after I said it, I was disagreeing with the fact that I'm always wrong, I admit that I could be wrong in this case.
What is the point in publically stating a stance if you're not willing to provide a reasoning behind it? You are doing absolutely nothing for the town, and honestly, are possibly hindering the town by stubbornly refusing to go along with the town's desires and refusing to explain why.
Publicly stating my stance has two reasons. 1 if I never stated my opinion on anything it would be very hard to judge my alignment, and 2 It tells other people who are with me that they are not alone. This allows for a group of people against the plan to not feel like they need to go along with it just because the 'majority'(if only people who supported it said something it would seem like the majority supported the plan when they may very well not) is.
It's not personal, it's just the same situation in every single game that chamber is ever in. Regardless of how many times it blows up in his face or how awfully it does so, nothing ever changes, and I'm tired of it. The last time, the end result was that chamber single-handedly gave the win to the mafia. I sat idly by, dead, frustrated beyond belief as soon as he started that play because I knew it was a lie. I'm not going to sit idly by and watch that happen. His lame false-claiming also screwed the town in L5R Mafia, and his refusal to listen to even his own mafia buddies made the endgame of Trek Mafia significantly more difficult than it should have been. Forgive me if I have no faith whatsoever in him, but he has earned this.
If any person cannot logically explain why they feel the way that they do, then they should take a step back and examine their own stance and whether or not it is really valid. In mafia, if it is not logical, it is probably a lie.
I disagree that my false claim had a negative effect on l5r, and although I agree the way I played star-trek made it harder, it was definetly the safer play at the time(well from my memory anyway I'd need to reread the game and pms, if I even still have them, to know for sure).
It has never been about my inability to explain my position. I will lose most drawn out battles because I suck at debating but thats not the reason I play as I do. I feel it's better for the town if people don't state cases, so I don't, plain and simple.
I am not sure if this was a serious question, but assuming it was, such a game where a mod's win condition would require that he reveal the scum would not be approved.
It was a sarcastic question. I still seriously don't see the Mod claiming. I believe he exists for a flavor reason, and I am not about to off something that's contributing more flavor to this game.
@Xyre: You're the Mod, you shouldn't turn up town nor neutral nor scum. The fact that you're this involved in the game as it is is ridiculous, and your actions thus far are not indicative of a town agenda.
Tell me again why you want to lynch the player whose death (and revelation of "alignment") is likely to give us the least information.
I would like to point out again that Cubus is supposedly 'dead' and yet his alignment was not revealed. I don't think he is 'truly dead' unless this is a game where one's alignment is not revealed upon death.
Dagger's posting restriction is really interesting. While being able to post during the day and not the night, he's only on the night player list - not the day one.
The interesting question is do MS and Kenji have the same restriction, only in reverse as compared to mine? I think they do. And then, this brings up another interesting question.
Also, for clarification, you can vote for anything and anyone. However, if the town lynches a player who isn't in the game, then nothing happens.
Does this mean that I can't be lynched during the Night considering that I don't exist in the Night players' list? Does this also mean that Xyre can't be lynched since he doesn't appear in both lists?
Honestly, if Xyre were anyone but the Mod, people would be tripping over their own feet to vote for him at this point. His posts are all ridiculous, from mocking SorryGuy to making ridiculously WIFOM statements like 'why don't you all try finding scum instead' to flatly refusing to claim. It doesn't even matter at this point that he is the Mod, because he has essentially turned himself into a player, and as a player, his actions thus far are absolutely lynch-worthy.
That's because he IS the Mod. I believe he won't even make such posts in the first place if you all weren't so intent on speedlynching him.
What seems even more rediculous is that some people are playing this like a normal (i.e. making the mod claim). He's not gonna claim, folks. DUH. This game is far from normal, and I think we should treat it as such. Speculation is useless.
I fully agree. I'll iterate my position. I do not agree in forcing the Mod to claim yet WHEN he so steadfastly refused to do so and EVEN implored us to continue on the discussion about the settings and/or catch the scums, and I really really don't want to speedlynch him.
What is the point in publically stating a stance if you're not willing to provide a reasoning behind it? You are doing absolutely nothing for the town, and honestly, are possibly hindering the town by stubbornly refusing to go along with the town's desires and refusing to explain why.
Town's desires? Based on what? If Xyre is at 10 votes already, we are treading dangerous grounds. This is an attempt at speedlynch no matter how I see it. Is forcing the Mod to claim what he can do really that important now? If we can do that, why don't we just force him to tell us the entire settings? He adamantly refused to claim and if we are still going to continue pushing him on such a matter, we might as well aim for more information. It makes no sense at all why there is even a bandwagon on such a scale.
Dagger, it is lamentable that you are so gullible as to fall for something like 'I implore you not to lynch me'. Would you go for that if he weren't the Mod? Hopefully not. Xyre is acting like a player in the game, and as such, needs to be treated like a player in the game, and be accountable like a player in the game. This means piling votes on him when necessary, and lynching him if it becomes necessary. You saw himself where he said not to trust anyone, himself included. He is certainly not acting trustworthy now.
As an aside, stupid crap like this is exactly why Mods should not participate in the game. A Mod allowing people to vote for him is one thing. A Mod that assigns himself a role and assumes a position as a player is a mistake, for various reasons shown so far today.
Gullible? Would you still lynch a player if that player claims cop? I, for one, would unvote immediately to ponder the situation further. It depends on the situation.
Xyre deliberately showed us as early as the first page that he can be voted and that he can vote in return. If I were to account him as a player as I did SG's 3 votes, I would appreciate his honesty.
The 'neccessary votes piling' as you said came about because of the argument 'he is the Mod and therefore he shouldn't play'. That by itself, is an illogical reasoning to start a bandwagon on someone considering that this is a specialty game. We do not know the settings of this game as of yet, unless of course you have more knowledge of it somehow than the rest of us?
If we really can extract information like this from pressuring the player-mod with votes, then this game is broken in half since we can demand any information we like with the threat of a lynch. I do not see Xyre revealing anything as of yet if he said he doesn't want to. Therefore, this bandwagon is a mistake or an attempt to cause the town to waste a lynch.
Trusting someone that says 'you shouldn't lynch me' is not even remotely the same as trusting someone that claims Cop. Gullability is believing the former, common sense is believing/evaluating the latter. The mod 'showing' that he can vote/be voted is one thing. The mod trying to actually participate as a player is absolutely different. As I said, this makes him accountable as a player. And as such, he is absolutely worthy of a lynch right now. No, I'm not saying that we should lynch him right this second with no further discussion. I'm saying that, if we do lynch him today, he has absolutely earned it. He has gone out of his way to establish himself as a player, and should be treated as such.
It is too much wasted brainpower to try and determine whether or not a 'don't trust anyone, even me' statement means 'you should trust me' in this situation.
Trusting someone that says 'you shouldn't lynch me' is not even remotely the same as trusting someone that claims Cop. Gullability is believing the former, common sense is believing/evaluating the latter.
Then, I suppose you are evaluating the "you shouldn't lynch me" part and not pushing for a lynch? Or because Xyre said "you shouldn't lynch me", he should be lynched because saying that is a scum tell, and a player should be lynched for saying that? Or does the fact he is the Mod colored your perception in treating him as a 'player'?
The mod 'showing' that he can vote/be voted is one thing. The mod trying to actually participate as a player is absolutely different. As I said, this makes him accountable as a player. And as such, he is absolutely worthy of a lynch right now. No, I'm not saying that we should lynch him right this second with no further discussion. I'm saying that, if we do lynch him today, he has absolutely earned it. He has gone out of his way to establish himself as a player, and should be treated as such.
Well then, I suppose the more we force him into defending himself, the more information we will gain when he try to defend himself. By treating him as a player, perhaps we should ask him to make an analysis on who he thinks is scummy. The fact that he plays does not negate the fact that he is the Mod.
It is too much wasted brainpower to try and determine whether or not a 'don't trust anyone, even me' statement means 'you should trust me' in this situation.
As I said, it is the Liar Paradox. That statement is false, and should not be used as a judge to determine whether we should lynch someone.
Thank you for providing the exact reason as to why the mod cannot possibly be town. And even if he is, he would never be able to participate in the context of a normal townie(IE: he's not going to just randomly vote for people etc).
I'm confident that his whole reason for 'playing' is to see whether or not he will get lynched or if people will try to NK him etc, and to respond accordingly. It is simply erronous of you to state that nothing good will come of lynching him. How could you possibly know this? As I said before, the Mod didn't present himself in this capacity for no reason. We can be virtually certain that lynching Xyre will have SOME effect. If it does absolutely nothing, then I doubt that we will even go to night, in which case nothing happens except that hopefully Xyre stops posting and being obnoxious.
That's the quickest 180 I've ever seen. 2 posts ago you were, very condescendingly I might add, calling us down for wanting to lynch Xyre. I make one post which you don't even acknowledge, let alone respond to, and your immediate follow up is to vote him as well. Why the change of heart? Not that I'm opposed to it, but it seems a little..off.
I don't know to whom these posts were directed, but I'll respond to the points that deal with the argument at hand, just so someone does.
1) The mod as a townie presumably has some trigger that affects his voting capacity. It's true that he can't vote freely under this circumstance.
2)Your assumptions are way too many. The mod could be a player for any number of reasons. Looking back at SC, you may recall that the mod's role was basically used as a lynchable extra vote for one of the real players. Lynching him turned out to be a net negative for the town, albeit a small one, and it happened for no other reason than because the town was paranoid.
3)Could you clarify the intended recipient of these posts?
4) Could you also cut out the invective. You accuse Xyre and chamber of being obnoxious, but you're the one being unpleasant.
5) What is your actual case against Xyre? You say if he weren't the mod, his posts would be lynchworthy, so taking out the mod-relevant stuff, where's the lynchworthiness?
What is the point in publically stating a stance if you're not willing to provide a reasoning behind it? You are doing absolutely nothing for the town, and honestly, are possibly hindering the town by stubbornly refusing to go along with the town's desires and refusing to explain why.
I agree that chamber's playstyle is infuriating, but this is a lousy argument. Stating opinions doesn't require explananing them to be a good thing for the game. Stating opinions and explaining them are both independently good things for the game. You should be happy with what you can get, and once chamber refusal to explain starts to make him look bad, as it inevitably will, then you can start complaining about it.
The mod said that he had a name, a role, and possibly an ability. He will claim at some point. This scenario doesn't make sense otherwise. Just because it's unreasonable to think we can extract information from his as the mod doesn't mean it's unreasonable to think we can extract information from him as a player. We just have to trust that Xyre has made a strong and obvious delineation between the two categories.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
@Dagger: No, we should absolutely not ask Xyre whom he thinks is scummy. He KNOWS who is scum and who isn't, and it is impossible to ignore this knowledge and try to just play along. If anyone asks the MOD for information as to who he thinks is scum, they should be modkilled for essentially trying to cheat. This is why a Mod should not participate in the game in the first place.
@ZDS(and CP, since he asks the same question with his # 5). Xyre, as a player, would absolutely be lynchworth at this point. The fact that he is at 9 or 10 or something votes should be evidence enough of this. However, for additional proof, just look at the posts he has made thus far. In post 75, he calls my proposition both poor and scummy, without ever indicating why it is so, even after I immediately pointed this out. In post 78, in addition to an obvious OMGUS vote on me, he completely and utterly misconstrues the things I have said(while ignoring my direct question about why my post was 'poor and scummy') to make me look as bad as possible while making himself look good at the same time. In post 84, he tries to play the ever-so-common scare card, claiming that lynching him just gives the scum a free lynch. Oh, obviously this is ridiculously WIFOM as well. In post 91, Xyre-the-player plays the 'I'm the Mod' card(again, he also did this in the post where he responded to Loran) to assert that we 'wont get any information out of lynching him'. Again, this is an obvious attempt to scare the town away from voting him, without actually explaining WHY people shouldn't vote for him. If Xyre is to be believed to have a role and be able to participate in this game, then, a wagon on him is as valid as a wagon on anyone else. It's worth noting that he ends that whole bit with the whole 'when I turn up town' statement, which scum always love to say. It subtlely reinforces the lie that they are town, but does not inspire any accountability. In post 101, he both refuses to claim(despite a good amount of pressure for him to do so) and tries to deflect attention off of himself by suggesting that we 'try to find scum'. In post 104, he avoids answering SGs question, instead mocking SG for asking them, even though SG's questions seem fairly pro-town. SG was obviously trying to gain information with those posts, yet in this very post Xyre blows him off and tells him to analyze what is going on in this game. Of course, that is exactly what SG is trying to do. And again in this post, Xyre tries to use the fact that he is the Mod to his advantage. This is scummy beyond words. If he were truly town, he would have acted like a townie from the beginning. Instead he is essentially trying to use his position as the Mod to convince people not to vote for him. This is simply unacceptable on any number of levels. In post 107, he both plays for sympathy with the whole 'I'm so frustrated' and 'I implore you' bit, and essentially sub-claims by saying that he has information(I don't even want to speculate on how the Mod would fairly come by role information) but that it wouldn't be good for the town if he revealed it. Xyre has illustrated virtually every scum tell there, and possibly created some new ones by trying to use his role as the Mod to try to force us to outguess..the mod.
@CP: To address the rest of your points.
1)I don't think he has any such trigger. He certainly did not immediately vote me after I voted him, his vote on me came significantly later.
2)All that you really can do in this situation is make assumptions.
3)Those two posts were directed at Wuffles. I would very much like him to answer them.
4)My apologies.
5)I answered this in response to ZDS.
As for waiting to come down on chamber, he has already done what I said would happen, so, I'm not really sure what I should be waiting for there.
Xyre, as a player, would absolutely be lynchworth at this point. The fact that he is at 9 or 10 or something votes should be evidence enough of this.
1. I'm voting him because he's scummy.
2. Why is he scummy? Because he's got so many votes on him!
You simply cannot apply the same standards to Xyre's "play" as you can a normal player. Regardless of what alignment he may have assigned himself (if indeed he has one at all) of course he's going to try to convince us not to lynch him.
Cyan, perhaps the limitation xyre put on himself is that he can only attack/vote for people attacking him? Or perhaps more specificly the first person to do so thats still doing so? Try unvoting and see what happens.
The one thing that people seem to be forgetting is that good things CAN come from attempting this lynch. Almost everyone has had a chance to state their opinion on it, and a ton of discussion has been generated because of it. If we actually do end up lynching Xyre, we'll get a lot of information just from peoples reactions to the bandwagon, it's just like most Day one lynches.
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@WoLG: The only way we can assume that people's responses to the bandwagon are based on people's alignments is if we assume that people know what his alignment is, which is basically the same thing as assuming that he's mafia. If he's neutral or town, we can't interpret anybody's reactions, because the people rooting for his lynch aren't any more likely to be town than mafia.
@Cyan: I'll grant there are scum tells in his posts. However, claiming that he's lynchworthy, even on Day 1, from what he's said so far is pretty pathetic. A regular player who acted like that would only get some criticism and a few votes from people trying to see if he'd crack. Such a player would not be lynched on the basis you're trying to pin on Xyre.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Firstly, I will ask that some of you please unvote. You are dangerously close to risking the life of a townie. I promise will reveal some further information tonight.
Once I'm down out of snipe-range, might I suggest everyone take a look at all the players in the game and put together a top three list of potential scum? That's always fun.
The "Very Aggravatingly Loud Alarm" Vote Count
(12 to lynch)
loran16 - 1 (creampuffeater)
Cubus - 1 (StormBlind) Xyre - 8 (WellOfLostGnomes, Cyan, SorryGuy, SorryGuy, SorryGuy, Jobie, loran16, ZeDorkSlipeur)
Fayul - 1 (Swinkee)
Wrath of Dog - 2 (Dagger, Squiggler)
SorryGuy - 1 (carrion pigeons)
Cyan - 2 (Fayul, Xyre)
Fruitcake Elemental - 1 (Bertrand)
get drunk - 1 (Ged)
I'm going to double-check to make sure all players have posted.
@ Dagger: The town can reach a majority vote on anyone, per se, but that doesn't mean that that guarantees a lynch (the thing you "lynch" might not be in the game, per se. For example, if the town reaches a majority on Bertrand's vote on Fruitcake Elemental, then that would be a majority, but Fruitcake Elemental isn't in the game and can't be lynched).
EDIT: Okay, all players have posted. I expect the players who only have one post, though, to pick it up.
Oh yeah, I'm slow >_<...I'll go ahead and Unvote then.
I'd like to see what happens if we lynch the mod, but we can always wait till end-game and ask. For now, we should all unvote Xyre, and hopefully he'll go back to just modding and not being a player, that's just too confusing for me to grasp atm.
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Jesus. How can you guys sit there and read posts like 144 and 148 and not realize how ridiculously scummy they are? If anyone else posted and said 'oh please unvote me so you don't lynch a townie', it would be a one way ticket to them getting MORE votes. And the attempts at distraction couldn't be more obvious. I'm beyond wanting to vote Xyre because of opportunism, at this point I absolutely want to lynch him because I believe that he is scum.
Honestly, if Xyre were anyone but the Mod, people would be tripping over their own feet to vote for him at this point. His posts are all ridiculous, from mocking SorryGuy to making ridiculously WIFOM statements like 'why don't you all try finding scum instead' to flatly refusing to claim. It doesn't even matter at this point that he is the Mod, because he has essentially turned himself into a player, and as a player, his actions thus far are absolutely lynch-worthy.
Except HE IS THE MOD. That is like saying, well if Chamber was any other player, he should be lynched for not posting things. The fact that he is the mod, means you must treat him as such. Cyan, you do realise that if he were to post a list of the scums, that breaks the game. The is very little that LYNCHING the mod gets.
Forgive me if I'm not willing to just take your word for that. Or anything. Given your track record, I fail to see how you can expect anything else. Especially since, as always, you're not doing anything to promote your way of thinking, you're just refusing to go along.
If you have some logical reason as to why this is the correct course of action, I would be happy to here it, and I promise to fully consider it. If it's just going to be more of the same 'I don't provide reasonings for my actions' tripe, then, I think you're just wasting everyone's time.
Ummm, I find you one of the people who should LEAST go by his track record. You intentionally AVOID games he is in, dont play on scumchat, and say that you know how he plays and it is WRONG? He screwed up a few times, yes we all do. Now, in the long run, some of you might find his playstye annoying. However, it does catch scums/have good insight in his own way. I am not saying that everybody should act like this, but like the old saying goes, change is good. Chambers playstyle is a change for the norm, and though you may find it stupid because he doesnt "Fit in", you have NO right to say he always fails, when you only have little evidence to prove it.
It's not personal, it's just the same situation in every single game that chamber is ever in. Regardless of how many times it blows up in his face or how awfully it does so, nothing ever changes, and I'm tired of it. The last time, the end result was that chamber single-handedly gave the win to the mafia. I sat idly by, dead, frustrated beyond belief as soon as he started that play because I knew it was a lie. I'm not going to sit idly by and watch that happen. His lame false-claiming also screwed the town in L5R Mafia, and his refusal to listen to even his own mafia buddies made the endgame of Trek Mafia significantly more difficult than it should have been. Forgive me if I have no faith whatsoever in him, but he has earned this.
Bolding by me. First, you call this NOT personal and it totaly is. Now, as I said earlier you have taken about 5 out of his 50 games, and said HE ALWAYS SCREWS UP. Now, with you only choosing a few, its easy to come to that conclusion. Now, in Magic, he gambitted. He thought what he was doing was right, and that it would end the game. You disagree with what he did, and so do others, but this is not really the worst he could of said. If you so hate him for it, why diddnt the town look at MMoD after Chamber wasnt a mason when he died. Yes, it was Chambers fault, but there were other factors. Next, you cite L5R. Please show me where chamber FALSE CLAIMED. He diddnt claim, and out of anger CC daykilled him. Was it Chambers fault? No. Could he of claimed though? Yes, but there was no reason for him to. I also believe that his play before that was not as "Bad" as you say it is. I cant comment on 'Trek, because I was not in that game. However, it seems like Chamber likes to take gambits. Does that make him a bad player? No, however what that means is when he says something, think twice about it.
Quote from Cyan »
If any person cannot logically explain why they feel the way that they do, then they should take a step back and examine their own stance and whether or not it is really valid. In mafia, if it is not logical, it is probably a lie.
. So are you now Vulcan? Logic helps yes, but not everything is logical, lets see your reasons for voting
1. I'm voting him because he's scummy.
2. Why is he scummy? Because he's got so many votes on him!
Doesnt look all that Logical to me. Cyan, I dont see how lynching the mod can help at all. And is the mod playing really as bad as you say it is? No. It allows for strange situations, and thats what keeps mafia fun, the idea that every game will be different and try new ideas. Cyan, if every game was the same, then this would not be nearly as much fun.
Quote from Arimnaes »
You simply cannot apply the same standards to Xyre's "play" as you can a normal player. Regardless of what alignment he may have assigned himself (if indeed he has one at all) of course he's going to try to convince us not to lynch him.
I agree with this 100%, and think that we really are going to get nowhere in trying to lynch/get a claim from him. I dont know what you people think you can acomplish, but the mod can obviously NOT reveal info about his setup, without breaking his game. And just like any player, he doesnt want to be lynched.
The one thing that people seem to be forgetting is that good things CAN come from attempting this lynch. Almost everyone has had a chance to state their opinion on it, and a ton of discussion has been generated because of it. If we actually do end up lynching Xyre, we'll get a lot of information just from peoples reactions to the bandwagon, it's just like most Day one lynches.
I also agree with this. This discussion is very good, and I would say that we dont just back of the idea of attacking the mod yet, to keep it up. That said, I dont think we should lynch him. I see this as the same discussion that comes up with the idea of mass claim, and is what makes the mass claim even more effective. What we can see from this discussion, is that we have a few people that arent paying much attention, and somebody that is way to agressive, and eager too attack people. Now, while this is Cyans usual playstyle, I believe he is going to far here, and I am going to Unvote, Vote Cyan
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I'm agreeing more and more with Cyan. Xyre's posts are rediculous. I think the argument that if he's made himself a player he deserves to be treated as one holds strong.
Unvote, Vote Xyre. Distraction, bad logic, etc. Also, I wanna see what happens.
Cyan, perhaps the limitation xyre put on himself is that he can only attack/vote for people attacking him? Or perhaps more specificly the first person to do so thats still doing so? Try unvoting and see what happens.
A vote count in 74 shows Cyan, WoD, and WOLG voting for Xyre. In 75 Xyre attacks Cyan. In 77 Cyan further pushes a lynch. Then in 78 he votes. If it was a mechanic he would have voted in 75, not waited. We therefore have to assume Xyre is in control of his own vote.
As for suggesting an unvote, that is just WIFOM. If Cyan unvoted, and then Xyre did so as well Xyre would likely be doing it just to act like he had to.
Yes, Cyan, he is so scummy it is hard to believe. I think this is a point in his favor. He must have assigned himself a role in which he has to act scummy. And I doubt that such a role would actually be scummy, although this is WIFOM in and of itself.
His attempts at deflection are painfully obvious. His promise of information tonight seems absurd seeing as he is not even willing to claim. This with Cyan's points on him make it obvious he is being scummy. At any rate, I am going to keep my votes up, because, regardless, I think we need a claim in order to proceed.
I am Danny Hobbes. I am a gambler. Each night I will reveal the alignment of one player at random. Any abilities that are supposed to target me will instead target a random player. If I am lynched, a random player will die in my stead. (This will only happen once, to my knowledge.)
So, hm. You are not viggable. You also are not copable. You also can not be lynched. I fail to see how any of this suits with a gambler. The 'as to my knowledge' comment is absurd as, you know, he is the mod and therefore must know these things.
Any posting restrictions you want to reveal? How about the flavor of Danny Hobbes being in the game?
And I doubt you can go there, but maybe why that role would be given to the mod of the game who acts totally scummy? Because you can?
That said, the arguments for lynching the mod based on the info we have at the moment are pure BS. I do not support this line of thinking.
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*bangs head into wall*
My logic is sound.
I'll give you that my comment to SorryGuy was a potshot, but it was as ridiculous as his assertion that you all will lynch me without a claim. I'm a bit frustrated at the moment.
@CP: You make a legitimate point. I do have a role, yes. I have a name. I might even have an ability. It's not, however, in the town's best interests for me to reveal any of this information just yet.
Do some more work, town. I implore you.
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The mod with a scum role is also very unbalanced, although a little less so.
The mod with a neutral ability is by far the most likely situation. The mod with a netural ability should be vigged.
Cyan: Are you going after Xyre purely for his behavior? At some points it doesn't look like it.
o_O
What seems even more rediculous is that some people are playing this like a normal (i.e. making the mod claim). He's not gonna claim, folks. DUH. This game is far from normal, and I think we should treat it as such. Speculation is useless.
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Not necessarily. A mod with a role that doesn't require him to reveal information beyond his role, such as a cop, or target players based on game state, such as a roleblocker, should be fine. For example, he could be merely an untargetable townie, or something (although that would be really frustrating for anyone who was trying to use an information role on him).
I heard of a game, once, in which the mod was self-proclaimed scum, but the town couldn't kill him until the rest of the mafia were dead. Admittedly, this situation isn't very similar, but since we don't really have an idea of what is going on, it's tough to judge whether something akin to that might still be believable.
A neutral mod is definitely a possibility, though. The problem is that if he's neutral, we stand the smallest chance of finding out what's going on. I'm not sure there's much point in assuming this to be the case.
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2.) This game is F'ed...
I'm still for attempting to lynch.
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I'm confident that his whole reason for 'playing' is to see whether or not he will get lynched or if people will try to NK him etc, and to respond accordingly. It is simply erronous of you to state that nothing good will come of lynching him. How could you possibly know this? As I said before, the Mod didn't present himself in this capacity for no reason. We can be virtually certain that lynching Xyre will have SOME effect. If it does absolutely nothing, then I doubt that we will even go to night, in which case nothing happens except that hopefully Xyre stops posting and being obnoxious.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
point1: Just because I'm wrong once doesn't imply that I will be wrong again
point2: These situations are very different, and shouldn't really be compared.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
And the situations are essentially the same. Some people have a certain thought. You reject that thought out of hand, without ever even remotely bothering to explain why, no matter how much people press you for information on it. Note, I'm not saying it's any kind of tell, because you do this as both scum and town. I'm simply saying that no one should waste their time listening to you because A)it's unlikely that you'll be right and B)you're not going to actually attempt to apply logic to explain your stance(and thus make the town understand it) anyway.
But I'm not.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
If you have some logical reason as to why this is the correct course of action, I would be happy to here it, and I promise to fully consider it. If it's just going to be more of the same 'I don't provide reasonings for my actions' tripe, then, I think you're just wasting everyone's time.
I was never asking you to change your mind, just making my opinion on the matter known. Should people follow me blindly? Definitely not. People should come to their own conclusions. If they come to a different conclusion then me, then perhaps I'm wrong, I'll leave it in the hands of the majority to decide.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
If any person cannot logically explain why they feel the way that they do, then they should take a step back and examine their own stance and whether or not it is really valid. In mafia, if it is not logical, it is probably a lie.
In case it wasn't clear,as I realized what I said could be taken two ways after I said it, I was disagreeing with the fact that I'm always wrong, I admit that I could be wrong in this case.
Publicly stating my stance has two reasons. 1 if I never stated my opinion on anything it would be very hard to judge my alignment, and 2 It tells other people who are with me that they are not alone. This allows for a group of people against the plan to not feel like they need to go along with it just because the 'majority'(if only people who supported it said something it would seem like the majority supported the plan when they may very well not) is.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
I disagree that my false claim had a negative effect on l5r, and although I agree the way I played star-trek made it harder, it was definetly the safer play at the time(well from my memory anyway I'd need to reread the game and pms, if I even still have them, to know for sure).
It has never been about my inability to explain my position. I will lose most drawn out battles because I suck at debating but thats not the reason I play as I do. I feel it's better for the town if people don't state cases, so I don't, plain and simple.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
It was a sarcastic question. I still seriously don't see the Mod claiming. I believe he exists for a flavor reason, and I am not about to off something that's contributing more flavor to this game.
I would like to point out again that Cubus is supposedly 'dead' and yet his alignment was not revealed. I don't think he is 'truly dead' unless this is a game where one's alignment is not revealed upon death.
The lists have changed... Here:
Day:
Night:
The interesting question is do MS and Kenji have the same restriction, only in reverse as compared to mine? I think they do. And then, this brings up another interesting question.
Does this mean that I can't be lynched during the Night considering that I don't exist in the Night players' list? Does this also mean that Xyre can't be lynched since he doesn't appear in both lists?
'We' as in who? If the scums want to kill the Mod that badly, let them waste their NK on it. Why should we waste our Lynch instead?
That's because he IS the Mod. I believe he won't even make such posts in the first place if you all weren't so intent on speedlynching him.
I fully agree. I'll iterate my position. I do not agree in forcing the Mod to claim yet WHEN he so steadfastly refused to do so and EVEN implored us to continue on the discussion about the settings and/or catch the scums, and I really really don't want to speedlynch him.
Regardless in whatever context that you said it, this is still scummy logic. FoS: Cyan
Town's desires? Based on what? If Xyre is at 10 votes already, we are treading dangerous grounds. This is an attempt at speedlynch no matter how I see it. Is forcing the Mod to claim what he can do really that important now? If we can do that, why don't we just force him to tell us the entire settings? He adamantly refused to claim and if we are still going to continue pushing him on such a matter, we might as well aim for more information. It makes no sense at all why there is even a bandwagon on such a scale.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
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As an aside, stupid crap like this is exactly why Mods should not participate in the game. A Mod allowing people to vote for him is one thing. A Mod that assigns himself a role and assumes a position as a player is a mistake, for various reasons shown so far today.
Xyre deliberately showed us as early as the first page that he can be voted and that he can vote in return. If I were to account him as a player as I did SG's 3 votes, I would appreciate his honesty.
The 'neccessary votes piling' as you said came about because of the argument 'he is the Mod and therefore he shouldn't play'. That by itself, is an illogical reasoning to start a bandwagon on someone considering that this is a specialty game. We do not know the settings of this game as of yet, unless of course you have more knowledge of it somehow than the rest of us?
If we really can extract information like this from pressuring the player-mod with votes, then this game is broken in half since we can demand any information we like with the threat of a lynch. I do not see Xyre revealing anything as of yet if he said he doesn't want to. Therefore, this bandwagon is a mistake or an attempt to cause the town to waste a lynch.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
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That is the Liar Paradox. If you don't trust Xyre, then why do you trust the statement "Don't trust me." that he made?
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It is too much wasted brainpower to try and determine whether or not a 'don't trust anyone, even me' statement means 'you should trust me' in this situation.
Then, I suppose you are evaluating the "you shouldn't lynch me" part and not pushing for a lynch? Or because Xyre said "you shouldn't lynch me", he should be lynched because saying that is a scum tell, and a player should be lynched for saying that? Or does the fact he is the Mod colored your perception in treating him as a 'player'?
Well then, I suppose the more we force him into defending himself, the more information we will gain when he try to defend himself. By treating him as a player, perhaps we should ask him to make an analysis on who he thinks is scummy. The fact that he plays does not negate the fact that he is the Mod.
As I said, it is the Liar Paradox. That statement is false, and should not be used as a judge to determine whether we should lynch someone.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
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I don't know to whom these posts were directed, but I'll respond to the points that deal with the argument at hand, just so someone does.
1) The mod as a townie presumably has some trigger that affects his voting capacity. It's true that he can't vote freely under this circumstance.
2)Your assumptions are way too many. The mod could be a player for any number of reasons. Looking back at SC, you may recall that the mod's role was basically used as a lynchable extra vote for one of the real players. Lynching him turned out to be a net negative for the town, albeit a small one, and it happened for no other reason than because the town was paranoid.
3)Could you clarify the intended recipient of these posts?
4) Could you also cut out the invective. You accuse Xyre and chamber of being obnoxious, but you're the one being unpleasant.
5) What is your actual case against Xyre? You say if he weren't the mod, his posts would be lynchworthy, so taking out the mod-relevant stuff, where's the lynchworthiness?
I agree that chamber's playstyle is infuriating, but this is a lousy argument. Stating opinions doesn't require explananing them to be a good thing for the game. Stating opinions and explaining them are both independently good things for the game. You should be happy with what you can get, and once chamber refusal to explain starts to make him look bad, as it inevitably will, then you can start complaining about it.
The mod said that he had a name, a role, and possibly an ability. He will claim at some point. This scenario doesn't make sense otherwise. Just because it's unreasonable to think we can extract information from his as the mod doesn't mean it's unreasonable to think we can extract information from him as a player. We just have to trust that Xyre has made a strong and obvious delineation between the two categories.
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@ZDS(and CP, since he asks the same question with his # 5). Xyre, as a player, would absolutely be lynchworth at this point. The fact that he is at 9 or 10 or something votes should be evidence enough of this. However, for additional proof, just look at the posts he has made thus far. In post 75, he calls my proposition both poor and scummy, without ever indicating why it is so, even after I immediately pointed this out. In post 78, in addition to an obvious OMGUS vote on me, he completely and utterly misconstrues the things I have said(while ignoring my direct question about why my post was 'poor and scummy') to make me look as bad as possible while making himself look good at the same time. In post 84, he tries to play the ever-so-common scare card, claiming that lynching him just gives the scum a free lynch. Oh, obviously this is ridiculously WIFOM as well. In post 91, Xyre-the-player plays the 'I'm the Mod' card(again, he also did this in the post where he responded to Loran) to assert that we 'wont get any information out of lynching him'. Again, this is an obvious attempt to scare the town away from voting him, without actually explaining WHY people shouldn't vote for him. If Xyre is to be believed to have a role and be able to participate in this game, then, a wagon on him is as valid as a wagon on anyone else. It's worth noting that he ends that whole bit with the whole 'when I turn up town' statement, which scum always love to say. It subtlely reinforces the lie that they are town, but does not inspire any accountability. In post 101, he both refuses to claim(despite a good amount of pressure for him to do so) and tries to deflect attention off of himself by suggesting that we 'try to find scum'. In post 104, he avoids answering SGs question, instead mocking SG for asking them, even though SG's questions seem fairly pro-town. SG was obviously trying to gain information with those posts, yet in this very post Xyre blows him off and tells him to analyze what is going on in this game. Of course, that is exactly what SG is trying to do. And again in this post, Xyre tries to use the fact that he is the Mod to his advantage. This is scummy beyond words. If he were truly town, he would have acted like a townie from the beginning. Instead he is essentially trying to use his position as the Mod to convince people not to vote for him. This is simply unacceptable on any number of levels. In post 107, he both plays for sympathy with the whole 'I'm so frustrated' and 'I implore you' bit, and essentially sub-claims by saying that he has information(I don't even want to speculate on how the Mod would fairly come by role information) but that it wouldn't be good for the town if he revealed it. Xyre has illustrated virtually every scum tell there, and possibly created some new ones by trying to use his role as the Mod to try to force us to outguess..the mod.
@CP: To address the rest of your points.
1)I don't think he has any such trigger. He certainly did not immediately vote me after I voted him, his vote on me came significantly later.
2)All that you really can do in this situation is make assumptions.
3)Those two posts were directed at Wuffles. I would very much like him to answer them.
4)My apologies.
5)I answered this in response to ZDS.
As for waiting to come down on chamber, he has already done what I said would happen, so, I'm not really sure what I should be waiting for there.
1. I'm voting him because he's scummy.
2. Why is he scummy? Because he's got so many votes on him!
You simply cannot apply the same standards to Xyre's "play" as you can a normal player. Regardless of what alignment he may have assigned himself (if indeed he has one at all) of course he's going to try to convince us not to lynch him.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
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@Cyan: I'll grant there are scum tells in his posts. However, claiming that he's lynchworthy, even on Day 1, from what he's said so far is pretty pathetic. A regular player who acted like that would only get some criticism and a few votes from people trying to see if he'd crack. Such a player would not be lynched on the basis you're trying to pin on Xyre.
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Once I'm down out of snipe-range, might I suggest everyone take a look at all the players in the game and put together a top three list of potential scum? That's always fun.
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
(12 to lynch)
loran16 - 1 (creampuffeater)
Cubus - 1 (StormBlind)
Xyre - 8 (WellOfLostGnomes, Cyan, SorryGuy, SorryGuy, SorryGuy, Jobie, loran16, ZeDorkSlipeur)
Fayul - 1 (Swinkee)
Wrath of Dog - 2 (Dagger, Squiggler)
SorryGuy - 1 (carrion pigeons)
Cyan - 2 (Fayul, Xyre)
Fruitcake Elemental - 1 (Bertrand)
get drunk - 1 (Ged)
I'm going to double-check to make sure all players have posted.
@ Dagger: The town can reach a majority vote on anyone, per se, but that doesn't mean that that guarantees a lynch (the thing you "lynch" might not be in the game, per se. For example, if the town reaches a majority on Bertrand's vote on Fruitcake Elemental, then that would be a majority, but Fruitcake Elemental isn't in the game and can't be lynched).
EDIT: Okay, all players have posted. I expect the players who only have one post, though, to pick it up.
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I'd like to see what happens if we lynch the mod, but we can always wait till end-game and ask. For now, we should all unvote Xyre, and hopefully he'll go back to just modding and not being a player, that's just too confusing for me to grasp atm.
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Good to see those lists amended to make sense, Dagger.
@chamber: Can you double-check and then post whatever it was you were going to bring up? I'm curious to hear it.
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Ummm, I find you one of the people who should LEAST go by his track record. You intentionally AVOID games he is in, dont play on scumchat, and say that you know how he plays and it is WRONG? He screwed up a few times, yes we all do. Now, in the long run, some of you might find his playstye annoying. However, it does catch scums/have good insight in his own way. I am not saying that everybody should act like this, but like the old saying goes, change is good. Chambers playstyle is a change for the norm, and though you may find it stupid because he doesnt "Fit in", you have NO right to say he always fails, when you only have little evidence to prove it.
Bolding by me. First, you call this NOT personal and it totaly is. Now, as I said earlier you have taken about 5 out of his 50 games, and said HE ALWAYS SCREWS UP. Now, with you only choosing a few, its easy to come to that conclusion. Now, in Magic, he gambitted. He thought what he was doing was right, and that it would end the game. You disagree with what he did, and so do others, but this is not really the worst he could of said. If you so hate him for it, why diddnt the town look at MMoD after Chamber wasnt a mason when he died. Yes, it was Chambers fault, but there were other factors. Next, you cite L5R. Please show me where chamber FALSE CLAIMED. He diddnt claim, and out of anger CC daykilled him. Was it Chambers fault? No. Could he of claimed though? Yes, but there was no reason for him to. I also believe that his play before that was not as "Bad" as you say it is. I cant comment on 'Trek, because I was not in that game. However, it seems like Chamber likes to take gambits. Does that make him a bad player? No, however what that means is when he says something, think twice about it. . So are you now Vulcan? Logic helps yes, but not everything is logical, lets see your reasons for voting Doesnt look all that Logical to me. Cyan, I dont see how lynching the mod can help at all. And is the mod playing really as bad as you say it is? No. It allows for strange situations, and thats what keeps mafia fun, the idea that every game will be different and try new ideas. Cyan, if every game was the same, then this would not be nearly as much fun.
I agree with this 100%, and think that we really are going to get nowhere in trying to lynch/get a claim from him. I dont know what you people think you can acomplish, but the mod can obviously NOT reveal info about his setup, without breaking his game. And just like any player, he doesnt want to be lynched.
I also agree with this. This discussion is very good, and I would say that we dont just back of the idea of attacking the mod yet, to keep it up. That said, I dont think we should lynch him. I see this as the same discussion that comes up with the idea of mass claim, and is what makes the mass claim even more effective. What we can see from this discussion, is that we have a few people that arent paying much attention, and somebody that is way to agressive, and eager too attack people. Now, while this is Cyans usual playstyle, I believe he is going to far here, and I am going to Unvote, Vote Cyan
Unvote, Vote Xyre. Distraction, bad logic, etc. Also, I wanna see what happens.
But right now all we're doing is yelling at each other. It's not going anywhere.
Let's try and figure out what the best and worst case scenarios could be for this, how likely they are and make a logical decision.
unvote
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[L1 Judge|Add me to your ignore list]
|Molten Sentry count - 1002 (34*)|
A vote count in 74 shows Cyan, WoD, and WOLG voting for Xyre. In 75 Xyre attacks Cyan. In 77 Cyan further pushes a lynch. Then in 78 he votes. If it was a mechanic he would have voted in 75, not waited. We therefore have to assume Xyre is in control of his own vote.
As for suggesting an unvote, that is just WIFOM. If Cyan unvoted, and then Xyre did so as well Xyre would likely be doing it just to act like he had to.
Yes, Cyan, he is so scummy it is hard to believe. I think this is a point in his favor. He must have assigned himself a role in which he has to act scummy. And I doubt that such a role would actually be scummy, although this is WIFOM in and of itself.
His attempts at deflection are painfully obvious. His promise of information tonight seems absurd seeing as he is not even willing to claim. This with Cyan's points on him make it obvious he is being scummy. At any rate, I am going to keep my votes up, because, regardless, I think we need a claim in order to proceed.
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I disagree.
Furthermore, what I said and what you said are two entirely different things.
EWP: Unvote, Vote: Ged Think with your own brain, sheep.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Look at Xyre's games. Not even newbies are that bad at being scum, y'know?
My information:
I am Danny Hobbes. I am a gambler. Each night I will reveal the alignment of one player at random. Any abilities that are supposed to target me will instead target a random player. If I am lynched, a random player will die in my stead. (This will only happen once, to my knowledge.)
Do you now understand the danger?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Any posting restrictions you want to reveal? How about the flavor of Danny Hobbes being in the game?
And I doubt you can go there, but maybe why that role would be given to the mod of the game who acts totally scummy? Because you can?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia