Hmm. Well, if Xyre has a posting restriction, he has a punishment for breaking it (unless the mod gave him leeway). And if that's so, we're going to see that punishment soon.
Seriously??? Vote: Xyre I cannot think of any reason why DYH would make up such a lame posting restriction. And if you can't talk about it, just say 'I can't talk about it'.
The reason his reasoning is terrrible is that it was obvious sarcasm. Although I've seen it before where plainfaced sarcasm was used by scum to veil bandwagon votes, I see more often that scum use the sarcastic statements of others, treat them seriously, draw bad conclusions from doing so, and use them as lame reasons to attack them (which is exactly what you did). FOS: Vampyr
Well you are a better judge of empathy through a computer screen than I am, sir.
There was no indication of joking or sarcasm in Cubus' post, as such I took it to be serious. He's since unvoted Feuer, so I will Unvote: Cubus, but running that wagon to four, even in jest, does not sit well with me. Nor does the stab at Nai. IGMEOY Cubus.
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PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
I'm not really a 24 fan, the mafia game just seemed interesting to me. I'll make sure I cross-check claims and flavor against Wikipedia and other sources. It's probably better not to have the knowledge-of-character bias in this game, anyways.
This whole posting restiction thing is confusing me, I've never seen or heard of it before, but I think that something that obvious wouldn't be given to a scum as it would make him too obvious a target? sound about right?
Whilst I agree that Feuerdrache wasn't lurking, abit of pressure isn't a bad thing. However 4 is a bit far(hence my unvote)
Yes, we can't waste time on non-posters but speedlynching them doesn't help anyone!
@Mod can we get a vote count. Also when is this hour due to end?
Does the day end then or when we've got a lynch?(the latter yeah?)
To answer the questions: This hour will end 72 real-life hours (3 real-life days) after it began. The 'day' continues until a majority lynch (or no lynch vote) is reached. The time included in my vote counts gives you an idea where you are on the clock. (Right now, for example, it's about quarter to one in the morning. Game started and ends at midnight.)
This whole posting restiction thing is confusing me, I've never seen or heard of it before, but I think that something that obvious wouldn't be given to a scum as it would make him too obvious a target? sound about right?
Uhm, yeah, if it's real. Totally a different kettle of fish if he's faking it; which is basically what we're trying to find out.
Quote from Vampyr »
There was no indication of joking or sarcasm in Cubus' post, as such I took it to be serious. He's since unvoted Feuer, so I will Unvote: Cubus, but running that wagon to four, even in jest, does not sit well with me.
He was the second vote on Feuer. He didn't "run up that wagon to four", you're making it sound more extreme than it is.
This whole posting restiction thing is confusing me, I've never seen or heard of it before, but I think that something that obvious wouldn't be given to a scum as it would make him too obvious a target? sound about right?
Um, no? They're usually just given to townies more frequently.
Also,
Yes, we can't waste time on non-posters but speedlynching them doesn't help anyone!
just strikes me as confusing.
If anyone wants to do research on the claim list, just go here.
And for those of you who care: I don't have a posting restriction, but my "s" key isn't broken, either.
Hmmm interesting. I don't think it owuld be in the town's best interest to ask any more of Xyre at this juncture. I really haven't liked Fallen One's play thus far in the game. As a personal style I don't do FoS, but I'll say he is rapidly moving up my scum list.
Hmmm interesting. I don't think it owuld be in the town's best interest to ask any more of Xyre at this juncture.
I can almost guarantee you there's nothing more to ask of him anyway. It's just that there's been a recent epidemic of players who think that faking post restrictions is a good idea for whatever reason
Hmmm interesting. I don't think it owuld be in the town's best interest to ask any more of Xyre at this juncture. I really haven't liked Fallen One's play thus far in the game. As a personal style I don't do FoS, but I'll say he is rapidly moving up my scum list.
a) It's Forgotten One. There is nothing fallen about me...
b) Why have you not liked my play so far?
c) So I'm moving up your scum list because I called someone on their "posting restriction" and I was right????
d) I'm also really confused as to how it's NOT in the best interest of the town to ask any more of someone who was caught lying? Please explain that one to me.
Why?,
1)He put Feuerdrache to 4 even after my third was frowned upon, because he didn't like non-posters.
2)Then made a defensive statement claiming unintentional bad play, even though his avatar says to me he is quite experienced.
Thats 2 posts, his third(first actually), Random vote/sign in.
@Carrion Pigeons -I agree I don't like non-posters, and right now(for me) your the worst of those who have posted 3 times
Hope to hear from you soon
I've seen people fake posting restrictions way too often. I almost always assume they are fake until proven otherwise. Also, typically the truthful posting restrictions are the ones that aren't so obvious. You've also got to look at it from a flavor standpoint. I really can't think of a 24 character that would have such a restriction. Anyway, all I wan't is some sort of explanation one way or another.
Immediately as Xyre appears you are fishing for info about why he is using the $ so much. I already called you on the second post but the first one does it too, to a much lesser extent.
Quote from Forgotten One »
Seriously??? Vote: Xyre I cannot think of any reason why DYH would make up such a lame posting restriction. And if you can't talk about it, just say 'I can't talk about it'.
I already responded to this once but I will add this: I think several other people have covered possibilities.
Quote from Forgotten One »
Either your $ key is now broken, or your 'S' key now works. Which is it???
This is a false Dilemma. There could be other reasons why he could have been doing what he did which you apparently don't even consider.
Quote from Forgotten One »
c) So I'm moving up your scum list because I called someone on their "posting restriction" and I was right????
No, you are moving up because of what I have pointed out above. Besides, he never directly said it was a posting restriction, he implied it may be but never said anything definitive. You seemed hellbent on extracting as much information as possible from him early in the game.
Quote from Forgotten One »
d) I'm also really confused as to how it's NOT in the best interest of the town to ask any more of someone who was caught lying? Please explain that one to me.
Misrep here. Please point out where he lied to us. I don't think it is the best interest of the town to ask for so much info this early in the game. Otherwise, why not just massclaim Day 1 so the town has the maximum information possible?[/hyperbole]
I would like to raise a flag with respect to Nai. He has 10 posts, more than anyone in the game, however none of them actually say anything. He's just making brief generic non-controversial statements, and never attempts to actually scum-hunt. Lurking in plain sight!?
Also, I noticed 4 players aren't voting right now, and in fact three (Fadeblue, Nai, Xyre) never voted at all. Could the non-voters please vote, or at least (if you're afraid to put someone in quicklynch range) state who they are suspicious of? We need (a) something to talk about, (b) paper-trails to analyze for later, and voting in a great way to achieve both.
@ Nai: I've been using bold/red to vote for people since I started playing on this site. I've played with Fade, who is a moderater of these fourms as well, numorus times, and was never made aware that it's infractionable to post in this manner.
1.) There are games currently running, that in order to vote for a player, you have to have it in bold/red, will I be infracted for doing so there?
2.) What is your opinion on F_O at this time?
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Why?,
1)He put Feuerdrache to 4 even after my third was frowned upon, because he didn't like non-posters.
2)Then made a defensive statement claiming unintentional bad play, even though his avatar says to me he is quite experienced.
Thats 2 posts, his third(first actually), Random vote/sign in.
@Carrion Pigeons -I agree I don't like non-posters, and right now(for me) your the worst of those who have posted 3 times
Hope to hear from you soon
@Cubus -Your not much better.
Answering point by point:
1) I put Feuerdrache to 4 because the wagon was dying due to being frowned on as a speedlynch. My stated goal was to draw him out.
2) I made no such statement, and I do not consider it to be bad play. What I did say is that I failed to consider one aspect of it, but I went on to say that it does not change my opinion.
3) I've offered up more relevant content than many people who have posted several more times than me. The central issue of this game has got to be the time restrictions, and the people who are ignoring the way this will change people's play are not contributing as well as they ought.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Answering point by point:
1) I put Feuerdrache to 4 because the wagon was dying due to being frowned on as a speedlynch. My stated goal was to draw him out.
Draw him out...when there is a good chance that he hadn't be able to check the thread yet? You keep treating this as if he had checked in, and not posted for 24+ hours. You can't "lurk" somewhere you haven't been to, and you know this.
2) I made no such statement, and I do not consider it to be bad play. What I did say is that I failed to consider one aspect of it, but I went on to say that it does not change my opinion.
We all understand that lurking is not an option here, but you're still trying to condone your vote as a bandwagoning lurker-vote, which is:
1.) NOT helpful 12 real life hours into a game, when not everyone had checked in.
2.) Very scummy. You were sounding very eagar to generate that lynch in the fastest time possible, even trying to get him to 4-5 votes before he had checked in. It *was* becoming a speed lynch, and speed lynches are bad.
3) I've offered up more relevant content than many people who have posted several more times than me. The central issue of this game has got to be the time restrictions, and the people who are ignoring the way this will change people's play are not contributing as well as they ought.
We all understand that there is a time limit, but that is no excuse for speedlynching and sloppy play.
One thing I do agree with you on is that we need to discuss what to do about time.
15-18 days will probably be our best bet for day one. I do not think, at this point in time, we should even consider a no-lynch at that time, and should lynch whovever is the scummiest. That gives us plently of time to have people post, and lots of reactions to guage.
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Answering point by point:
1) I put Feuerdrache to 4 because the wagon was dying due to being frowned on as a speedlynch. My stated goal was to draw him out.
2) I made no such statement, and I do not consider it to be bad play. What I did say is that I failed to consider one aspect of it, but I went on to say that it does not change my opinion.
3) I've offered up more relevant content than many people who have posted several more times than me. The central issue of this game has got to be the time restrictions, and the people who are ignoring the way this will change people's play are not contributing as well as they ought.
1) Fair enough, but I thought that with no votes retracted it was still significant enough.
2)The first part I took to be you saying "sorry, my bad", hence my statment. So I guess I misread it badly... "sorry my bad"
3) Yeah I hadn't concidered "lurking in plain sight" as Alx put it, I shall have to keep an eye out for that. I usually go off the post count.
Unvote
Basically we were up to hour two and the whole Xyre "$" thing kinda stalled me, so I was looking for people who weren't putting their two cents in, and you came up top of my list. You had 2 votes and hadn't posted for a while so I thought I'd stimulate you.
@WellOfLostGnomes- What's your opinion on F_O?
Mine is he and Xyre have effectivly confused me I'm just not sure what to think
WellofLostGnomes: Don't use Mod Text to vote. Just bold, don't use red. I'll have to warn/infract anyone that does it.
I'm tempted to say Xyre was doing the $ thing to activate an ability. Or to just mess with our heads. Not sure which.
WOLG always does that, Nai.
Oh, and to the second one.
One thing I've noticed reviewing Nai's posts, however: he hasn't said anything about anyone. His comments have been largely limited to comments on the setup, random votes, my "posting restriction", 24 itself, mafia itself, and forum moderation. Nai, do you have any ideas on anyone?
On the subject of bold red text, it's mod text. For crying out loud, the rules DO apply here. And if Fade's okay with it, I'll have to take it up with him. His moderating style and my moderating style don't have to coincide. And yes, I probably will infract it if I see it. The rules say no mod text, so no mod text.
Related to this game, now. IF I'm in a game where the rules differ from normal, I usually see i I can get some discussion about those rules. It's useful to see the interpretations, because you can catch people by how they want the rules to apply to them. In this case it was both the general setup and Xyre, the latter being this quick post restriction. That's something to at least look at, I think.
As for votes, I usually don't random vote. I see no reason for it, as the only thing it gets is reactions, and those tend to either be "OMGUS", or, if someone has more than two votes on them after random vote, things people dub 'overreactions' which make a lot of fuss over something that's not even a scum tell.
Currently, my eye is on three folks. Cubus, Forgotten One, and Carrion Pigeons.
Cubus is partly an OMGUS, since he voted me for questioning the setup. Town ALWAYS benefits out of more information, and it's scummy to try to stop that. Voting someone asking questions for information is not okay.
Carrion Pigeons gets my eye fro wanting a lurker vote at 12 hours, when someone hadn't even checked in yet. Somehow, that doesn't strike me as a newbie mistake, and I can't see any townie reason for doing so.
Forgotten One is on my list for a few posts about Xyre. Mainly the "If you have a post restriction, tell us, and I also vote you" post. Post restrictions usually also restrict talking about them. Giving someone the illusion of choice, when there is no choice at all, while voting them to pressure them, isn't okay.
Currently, though, I don't have a reason for voting. None of these reasons, in and of themselves, are good enough to justify my vote. I usually watch and comment on things, looking for a slip-up.
EBWODP: On the subject of moderator text, by the by: It's well known that bold AND red is mod text, and that you can't use it. I'll make sure that bold-red text isn't required. Bold OR red is another matter entirely. As long as you don't use both, there's no issue.
Alx: Why is it a problem that I'm not voting for anyone? I don't treat votes lightly, and I'm not planning to change that for this game.
That said, I'm also a little behind on analyzing the posts so far this game. So I haven't yet formed a strong opinion on anyone, particularly a couple players who I've never played with before.
Regarding the mod text, I'm going to agree with Nai here. I was lenient on it before because it's not done with the intent of impersonating a mod (and it also helps the game mod more easily spot votes), but we're probably better off keeping it out of mafia games, just like the rest of the site. Though I guess this means we now need to find an equally suitable color for such purposes.
I didn't vote you for questioning the setup. If anything, you reduced the amount of information that has been gained from posts so far by not giving your opinion on anyone. Also, OMGUS isn't really a good reason to find me suspicious.
Not good enough Cubus, you were high on my suspicuonn list as your vague vote(no real explaination) and lack of posting worried me.
Nia, whilst not having contributed much(in suspect terms) was not that high on my list the fact that you waited for him to specify your vote before you responded makes me even more suspicous.So Vote Cubus
As far as "Lurkers in Plainsight" Abbey Gargoyle is my top suspect.(granted this may be cause he's still got his vote on me) but with his attacking people with "just getting started" in their avatar makes me wonder? plus he apart from this added not much FoS Abbey Gargoyle
In reference to my second paragraph it doesn't read right.
What I was trying to say was.
While Nai has not used his vote, Cubus accused him without a specification then shut up. When he decided what you accused him of , you pointed out a different reason(a different point to what Nai highlighted). Easily done!,
Sorry Abbey but if your so suspicious of F_O vote him!!!
I'm not one to usually use my vote lightly, and then I usually leave my vote on the person I voted or until I find a really good reason to change it. If I vote for someone, it's for a good reason, and then I don't change that vote until I find a better reason.
Cubus: It seemed like you were voting for me because of my questioning of the make of the game, in part. But I see now, I remember that the only reason you DID vote for me was my statement about 'our side'. Apparently, you don't like me proclaiming that I'm town, and acting out on the knowledge that I'm town. It's a rather amusing thing.
As far as "Lurkers in Plainsight" Abbey Gargoyle is my top suspect.(granted this may be cause he's still got his vote on me) but with his attacking people with "just getting started" in their avatar makes me wonder? plus he apart from this added not much FoS Abbey Gargoyle
A touch of OMGUS, especially at a random vote? Overreact a bit? First off, how can you argue that I am adding "not much" as I have actually had a somewhat meaningful banter with F_O (if he ever decides to respond to my latest post).
As far as attacking people with "just getting started in their avatar," you are arguing from faulty premises. Even though F_O is obviously new to this site, being new to this site != being new to mafia. There are many other boards where mafia is played on the internet besides this one. He could be a seasoned player that came here to play for example, which makes his fishing more suspicious. I have no idea of his mafia experience because I don't think I have played with him on any mafia sites, but at such an early juncture I feel it is as good of a lead to go on as any.
Sorry Abbey but if your so suspicious of F_O vote him!!!
Geez, a random vote really bothers you, huh? That almost makes me regret unvote-ing but random votes seem to be going out of style now that we have things to talk about.
See my above reasoning about F_O, I am trying to figure out what his experience level is from his responses. I want to see how he will respond to my latest post about him before I make up my mind about voting him.
Well well, looks like we managed to get Mr. "I'll just sit there and wait for a slip-up" Nai out of his shell and right into a slight confrontation. Which is a good thing.
fadeblue and Xyre, on the other hand, refused to take the bait, and remained firmly non-commital. All Xyre said was a repeat of what was already said, and all fade said was that he has nothing to say. Unvote Carrion Pigeons, vote fadeblue
A touch of OMGUS, especially at a random vote? Overreact a bit? First off, how can you argue that I am adding "not much" as I have actually had a somewhat meaningful banter with F_O (if he ever decides to respond to my latest post).
Well I did say apart from your attacks on people with"just getting started" in their avatar, this includes F_O!
As far as attacking people with "just getting started in their avatar," you are arguing from faulty premises. Even though F_O is obviously new to this site, being new to this site != being new to mafia.
I never said you were attacking noobs(people new to mafia), just people with "just getting started" in their avatar.
I too am more suspicious of F_O than Xyre(if either are guilty) in this but with you in my suspicions!?, I wasn't sure
Geez, a random vote really bothers you, huh? That almost makes me regret unvote-ing but random votes seem to be going out of style now that we have things to talk about.
See my above reasoning about F_O, I am trying to figure out what his experience level is from his responses. I want to see how he will respond to my latest post about him before I make up my mind about voting him.
No not really but you seemed to have a good case agaist F_O and you didn't vote him at the end and I wondered why?, you answered this.
I too am waiting for his reply but in the mean time I thought I'd look at a couple of other things that had caught my attention, hence the Fos(you) and vote(Cubus)!
So Abbey(and anyone else), whats your opinion on Cubus?
I think I'm going to go ahead and Unvote, Vote: Carrion Pigeons
1.) For his panic/scare mongering in regards to the time limit.
2.) For thinking that puting someone in the "rush-lynch" range @ 12-ish hours into a game is ok.
See post http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1865178&postcount=81 for an elaboration on these reasons. The only reason I didn't vote him there is because I was, and still am, waiting on a response from Vampyr.
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Alx: Trust me, I repeatedly get in confrontations with people. My votes, however, take a while to move. And I prefer to take my time in finding the good fight.
@Abbey Gargoyle: I consider myself to be relatively experienced when it comes to mafia. I've played in about a dozen games on 'News, and this is my first here on Salvation. I've even modded a game.
During those dozen games, I've seen 4 people fake posting/voting abilities or other such nonsense, and a lot of the time I was the one who pressed for info as to whether or not they were telling the truth or not. There is a lot that can be said without being explicit about it, and without violating a posting restriction. I would think that someone with an obvious posting restriction would want to communicate that to everyone so that they know what's going on, and not pretend like it doesn't exist like Xyre did. All my red flags went up, and I voted where I saw pressure needed to be applied in order to get to the bottom of what was going on.
I also want to note that one of those people who was faking something and was Mafia was Xyre during Players Choice Mafia on 'News and his whole "daykill/crucify" thing.
I stated that I felt he was lying to us because he specifically referred to the word posting restriction in two separate posts followed by a post that said he didn't have a posting restriction. All he needed to do then was say "I don't have a po$ting re$triction, but I can't $ay anything el$e right now." and I probably would have dropped it. As it was, his response of "Dollar $ign$?" was completely unhelpful to both himself and everyone else. I figured at that point that this posting restriction had a high probability of being fake, and I was right.
I also don't agree that I was fishing. That's like accusing someone of seal poaching if they are walking down the beach and a seal washes ashore. He was the one who posted with dollar signs. He was the one who was being evasive. Pressing for info is how I play the game, and here was a clear opportunity to find out why an elephant was standing in the room. If you don't press for info, then how do you ever find mafia??? Also, your analogy of comparing my pressing him for info on a fake posting restriction and a Day One Mass Claim are completely ridiculous, even with the /hyperbole qualification behind it.
In as much as I was right, I also don't care much that you've accused me of WIFOM, Gaming the Mod, Rolefishing, a False Dilemma, and mis-Representing Information. Dropping buzzwords and trying to associate them with my name doesn't fly with me. My reason for voting Xyre was never WIFOM, I did game the Mod (but it was not without reason, and I ended up being right), Rolefishing is an exaggeration, the False Dilemma was sarcasm, and my mis-representation of Xyre as a liar was not a misrep at all.
On the flipside to all of this, I will admit that I didn't even remotely think of the possibility that Xyre needed to post that way in order to activate some ability. That would be the first time I've ever seen that, and to me it seems a rather unorthodox and superfluous drawback to a role, but I can buy it for the time being and I will therefore Unvote.
As for who is mafia, I will probably end up voting for Carrion Pigeons. I haven't got a read on Cubus, but that post where he defended me was kinda weird (but him and Dakkon are two people that I've played with at 'News, so it might be that they know me better and realize that its my style to be on the attack when I see something that's not right). I've got my eye on a couple others, but I don't have anything solid quite yet so I'll keep quiet for the time being.
I have seen, in one or two games, keywords that were needed to activate a role. You had to say "X, Y many times in the day" to be able to use your ability. When I remember the game, I'll tell you.
Edit to previous post:
So I went back to 'News and actually counted the games, and I guess I've only played in 7 games, modded 1, and I'm currently in 3 (2 at News, 1 here). In those 7 games, I've experienced 3 false posting restriction/ability claims: Xyre, Players Choice Mafia, Mafia; MD_, Mechanic Mafia, Town; Hawkeye, Tarantino Mafia, Mafia. I was heavily involved in the getting the Town to not lynch MD_ by figuring out he had a voting restriction, and I was heavily involved in lynching Hawkeye despite his insistence on having a posting restriction. I was NK'd Night 1 during Player's Choice, so I really didn't have time to get into it with Xyre.
Ok, back from the dead, so to speak. I may have gotten myself confused when I voted for Cubus. I plan on going back during the weekend and doing a reread of the thread and hopefully I can clarify my reasons for my vote.
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Current Soul Collector count: 184
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Fadeblue: Not in the slightest. I don't have any indication in this game that that's the situation. However, I prefer to make sure there's no other explanation before saying there's no other explanation.
FO: You will "probably end up voting for Carrion Pigeons"? Any reason why, or are you just following a wagon?
The reasons aren't much different than what others have already posted. His zeal to want to lynch lurkers almost immediately is one point. The other point was the way that he was suggesting that we impose some deadline on ourselves. Deadlines suck and the one time I have played when we had a deadline imposed we were forced into a bad lynch.
My helpdesk should you need me.
If you haven't yet, you go do that. I'll be right back; I have to go check on my daughter. =/
Well you are a better judge of empathy through a computer screen than I am, sir.
There was no indication of joking or sarcasm in Cubus' post, as such I took it to be serious. He's since unvoted Feuer, so I will Unvote: Cubus, but running that wagon to four, even in jest, does not sit well with me. Nor does the stab at Nai. IGMEOY Cubus.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
My helpdesk should you need me.
Whilst I agree that Feuerdrache wasn't lurking, abit of pressure isn't a bad thing. However 4 is a bit far(hence my unvote)
Yes, we can't waste time on non-posters but speedlynching them doesn't help anyone!
@Mod can we get a vote count. Also when is this hour due to end?
Does the day end then or when we've got a lynch?(the latter yeah?)
Vote Count:
Carrion Pigeons (2) - Feuerdrache, Alx
Feuerdrache (2) - WellOfLostGnomes, Carrion Pigeons
Dakkon33327 (1) - AbbeyGargoyle
Nai (1) - Cubus
Xyre (1) - Forgotten One
With 12 alive, it is 7 to lynch!
00:46:43
To answer the questions: This hour will end 72 real-life hours (3 real-life days) after it began. The 'day' continues until a majority lynch (or no lynch vote) is reached. The time included in my vote counts gives you an idea where you are on the clock. (Right now, for example, it's about quarter to one in the morning. Game started and ends at midnight.)
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Uhm, yeah, if it's real. Totally a different kettle of fish if he's faking it; which is basically what we're trying to find out.
He was the second vote on Feuer. He didn't "run up that wagon to four", you're making it sound more extreme than it is.
It doesn't sit well with you, yet you fail to mention CP's fourth vote? But you have your eye on cubus who put a second vote on?
Vote: Vampyr
Something doesn't sit well with me.
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Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Um, no? They're usually just given to townies more frequently.
Also, just strikes me as confusing.
If anyone wants to do research on the claim list, just go here.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
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Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Either your $ key is now broken, or your 'S' key now works. Which is it???
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
I think what he was trying to say is, we can't be forgiving of lurkers, but speedlynching anyone is always a bad idea.
That makes more sense, thanks, Feuer.
And for those of you who care: I don't have a posting restriction, but my "s" key isn't broken, either.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Hmmm interesting. I don't think it owuld be in the town's best interest to ask any more of Xyre at this juncture. I really haven't liked Fallen One's play thus far in the game. As a personal style I don't do FoS, but I'll say he is rapidly moving up my scum list.
I can almost guarantee you there's nothing more to ask of him anyway. It's just that there's been a recent epidemic of players who think that faking post restrictions is a good idea for whatever reason
a) It's Forgotten One. There is nothing fallen about me...
b) Why have you not liked my play so far?
c) So I'm moving up your scum list because I called someone on their "posting restriction" and I was right????
d) I'm also really confused as to how it's NOT in the best interest of the town to ask any more of someone who was caught lying? Please explain that one to me.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Why?,
1)He put Feuerdrache to 4 even after my third was frowned upon, because he didn't like non-posters.
2)Then made a defensive statement claiming unintentional bad play, even though his avatar says to me he is quite experienced.
Thats 2 posts, his third(first actually), Random vote/sign in.
@Carrion Pigeons -I agree I don't like non-posters, and right now(for me) your the worst of those who have posted 3 times
Hope to hear from you soon
@Cubus -Your not much better.
I'm tempted to say Xyre was doing the $ thing to activate an ability. Or to just mess with our heads. Not sure which.
My helpdesk should you need me.
This is what I haven't liked about your play:
Immediately as Xyre appears you are fishing for info about why he is using the $ so much. I already called you on the second post but the first one does it too, to a much lesser extent.
I already responded to this once but I will add this: I think several other people have covered possibilities.
This is a false Dilemma. There could be other reasons why he could have been doing what he did which you apparently don't even consider.
No, you are moving up because of what I have pointed out above. Besides, he never directly said it was a posting restriction, he implied it may be but never said anything definitive. You seemed hellbent on extracting as much information as possible from him early in the game.
Misrep here. Please point out where he lied to us. I don't think it is the best interest of the town to ask for so much info this early in the game. Otherwise, why not just massclaim Day 1 so the town has the maximum information possible?[/hyperbole]
Vote Count:
Carrion Pigeons (3) - Feuerdrache, Alx, Dakkon33327
Dakkon33327 (1) - AbbeyGargoyle
Feuerdrache (1) - Carrion Pigeons
Nai (1) - Cubus
Vampyr (1) - WellOfLostGnomes
Xyre (1) - Forgotten One
With 12 alive, it is 7 to lynch!
01:07:31
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Also, I noticed 4 players aren't voting right now, and in fact three (Fadeblue, Nai, Xyre) never voted at all. Could the non-voters please vote, or at least (if you're afraid to put someone in quicklynch range) state who they are suspicious of? We need (a) something to talk about, (b) paper-trails to analyze for later, and voting in a great way to achieve both.
1.) There are games currently running, that in order to vote for a player, you have to have it in bold/red, will I be infracted for doing so there?
2.) What is your opinion on F_O at this time?
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Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Answering point by point:
1) I put Feuerdrache to 4 because the wagon was dying due to being frowned on as a speedlynch. My stated goal was to draw him out.
2) I made no such statement, and I do not consider it to be bad play. What I did say is that I failed to consider one aspect of it, but I went on to say that it does not change my opinion.
3) I've offered up more relevant content than many people who have posted several more times than me. The central issue of this game has got to be the time restrictions, and the people who are ignoring the way this will change people's play are not contributing as well as they ought.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
That's how long the game had been going when you voted him for "lurking".
Draw him out...when there is a good chance that he hadn't be able to check the thread yet? You keep treating this as if he had checked in, and not posted for 24+ hours. You can't "lurk" somewhere you haven't been to, and you know this.
We all understand that lurking is not an option here, but you're still trying to condone your vote as a bandwagoning lurker-vote, which is:
1.) NOT helpful 12 real life hours into a game, when not everyone had checked in.
2.) Very scummy. You were sounding very eagar to generate that lynch in the fastest time possible, even trying to get him to 4-5 votes before he had checked in. It *was* becoming a speed lynch, and speed lynches are bad.
We all understand that there is a time limit, but that is no excuse for speedlynching and sloppy play.
One thing I do agree with you on is that we need to discuss what to do about time.
15-18 days will probably be our best bet for day one. I do not think, at this point in time, we should even consider a no-lynch at that time, and should lynch whovever is the scummiest. That gives us plently of time to have people post, and lots of reactions to guage.
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Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
1) Fair enough, but I thought that with no votes retracted it was still significant enough.
2)The first part I took to be you saying "sorry, my bad", hence my statment. So I guess I misread it badly... "sorry my bad"
3) Yeah I hadn't concidered "lurking in plain sight" as Alx put it, I shall have to keep an eye out for that. I usually go off the post count.
Unvote
Basically we were up to hour two and the whole Xyre "$" thing kinda stalled me, so I was looking for people who weren't putting their two cents in, and you came up top of my list. You had 2 votes and hadn't posted for a while so I thought I'd stimulate you.
@WellOfLostGnomes- What's your opinion on F_O?
Mine is he and Xyre have effectivly confused me I'm just not sure what to think
WOLG always does that, Nai.
Oh, and to the second one.
One thing I've noticed reviewing Nai's posts, however: he hasn't said anything about anyone. His comments have been largely limited to comments on the setup, random votes, my "posting restriction", 24 itself, mafia itself, and forum moderation. Nai, do you have any ideas on anyone?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Related to this game, now. IF I'm in a game where the rules differ from normal, I usually see i I can get some discussion about those rules. It's useful to see the interpretations, because you can catch people by how they want the rules to apply to them. In this case it was both the general setup and Xyre, the latter being this quick post restriction. That's something to at least look at, I think.
As for votes, I usually don't random vote. I see no reason for it, as the only thing it gets is reactions, and those tend to either be "OMGUS", or, if someone has more than two votes on them after random vote, things people dub 'overreactions' which make a lot of fuss over something that's not even a scum tell.
Currently, my eye is on three folks. Cubus, Forgotten One, and Carrion Pigeons.
Cubus is partly an OMGUS, since he voted me for questioning the setup. Town ALWAYS benefits out of more information, and it's scummy to try to stop that. Voting someone asking questions for information is not okay.
Carrion Pigeons gets my eye fro wanting a lurker vote at 12 hours, when someone hadn't even checked in yet. Somehow, that doesn't strike me as a newbie mistake, and I can't see any townie reason for doing so.
Forgotten One is on my list for a few posts about Xyre. Mainly the "If you have a post restriction, tell us, and I also vote you" post. Post restrictions usually also restrict talking about them. Giving someone the illusion of choice, when there is no choice at all, while voting them to pressure them, isn't okay.
Currently, though, I don't have a reason for voting. None of these reasons, in and of themselves, are good enough to justify my vote. I usually watch and comment on things, looking for a slip-up.
My helpdesk should you need me.
My helpdesk should you need me.
That said, I'm also a little behind on analyzing the posts so far this game. So I haven't yet formed a strong opinion on anyone, particularly a couple players who I've never played with before.
Regarding the mod text, I'm going to agree with Nai here. I was lenient on it before because it's not done with the intent of impersonating a mod (and it also helps the game mod more easily spot votes), but we're probably better off keeping it out of mafia games, just like the rest of the site. Though I guess this means we now need to find an equally suitable color for such purposes.
Not good enough Cubus, you were high on my suspicuonn list as your vague vote(no real explaination) and lack of posting worried me.
Nia, whilst not having contributed much(in suspect terms) was not that high on my list the fact that you waited for him to specify your vote before you responded makes me even more suspicous.So Vote Cubus
As far as "Lurkers in Plainsight" Abbey Gargoyle is my top suspect.(granted this may be cause he's still got his vote on me) but with his attacking people with "just getting started" in their avatar makes me wonder? plus he apart from this added not much FoS Abbey Gargoyle
In reference to my second paragraph it doesn't read right.
What I was trying to say was.
While Nai has not used his vote, Cubus accused him without a specification then shut up. When he decided what you accused him of , you pointed out a different reason(a different point to what Nai highlighted). Easily done!,
Sorry Abbey but if your so suspicious of F_O vote him!!!
Vote Count:
Carrion Pigeons (2) - Feuerdrache, Alx
Cubus (1) - Dakkon33327
Dakkon33327 (1) - AbbeyGargoyle
Feuerdrache (1) - Carrion Pigeons
Nai (1) - Cubus
Vampyr (1) - WellOfLostGnomes
Xyre (1) - Forgotten One
With 12 alive, it is 7 to lynch!
01:26:40
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Cubus: It seemed like you were voting for me because of my questioning of the make of the game, in part. But I see now, I remember that the only reason you DID vote for me was my statement about 'our side'. Apparently, you don't like me proclaiming that I'm town, and acting out on the knowledge that I'm town. It's a rather amusing thing.
My helpdesk should you need me.
A touch of OMGUS, especially at a random vote? Overreact a bit? First off, how can you argue that I am adding "not much" as I have actually had a somewhat meaningful banter with F_O (if he ever decides to respond to my latest post).
As far as attacking people with "just getting started in their avatar," you are arguing from faulty premises. Even though F_O is obviously new to this site, being new to this site != being new to mafia. There are many other boards where mafia is played on the internet besides this one. He could be a seasoned player that came here to play for example, which makes his fishing more suspicious. I have no idea of his mafia experience because I don't think I have played with him on any mafia sites, but at such an early juncture I feel it is as good of a lead to go on as any.
Geez, a random vote really bothers you, huh? That almost makes me regret unvote-ing but random votes seem to be going out of style now that we have things to talk about.
See my above reasoning about F_O, I am trying to figure out what his experience level is from his responses. I want to see how he will respond to my latest post about him before I make up my mind about voting him.
fadeblue and Xyre, on the other hand, refused to take the bait, and remained firmly non-commital. All Xyre said was a repeat of what was already said, and all fade said was that he has nothing to say. Unvote Carrion Pigeons, vote fadeblue
Well I did say apart from your attacks on people with"just getting started" in their avatar, this includes F_O!
I never said you were attacking noobs(people new to mafia), just people with "just getting started" in their avatar.
I too am more suspicious of F_O than Xyre(if either are guilty) in this but with you in my suspicions!?, I wasn't sure
No not really but you seemed to have a good case agaist F_O and you didn't vote him at the end and I wondered why?, you answered this.
I too am waiting for his reply but in the mean time I thought I'd look at a couple of other things that had caught my attention, hence the Fos(you) and vote(Cubus)!
So Abbey(and anyone else), whats your opinion on Cubus?
1.) For his panic/scare mongering in regards to the time limit.
2.) For thinking that puting someone in the "rush-lynch" range @ 12-ish hours into a game is ok.
See post http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1865178&postcount=81 for an elaboration on these reasons. The only reason I didn't vote him there is because I was, and still am, waiting on a response from Vampyr.
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Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
My helpdesk should you need me.
During those dozen games, I've seen 4 people fake posting/voting abilities or other such nonsense, and a lot of the time I was the one who pressed for info as to whether or not they were telling the truth or not. There is a lot that can be said without being explicit about it, and without violating a posting restriction. I would think that someone with an obvious posting restriction would want to communicate that to everyone so that they know what's going on, and not pretend like it doesn't exist like Xyre did. All my red flags went up, and I voted where I saw pressure needed to be applied in order to get to the bottom of what was going on.
I also want to note that one of those people who was faking something and was Mafia was Xyre during Players Choice Mafia on 'News and his whole "daykill/crucify" thing.
I stated that I felt he was lying to us because he specifically referred to the word posting restriction in two separate posts followed by a post that said he didn't have a posting restriction. All he needed to do then was say "I don't have a po$ting re$triction, but I can't $ay anything el$e right now." and I probably would have dropped it. As it was, his response of "Dollar $ign$?" was completely unhelpful to both himself and everyone else. I figured at that point that this posting restriction had a high probability of being fake, and I was right.
I also don't agree that I was fishing. That's like accusing someone of seal poaching if they are walking down the beach and a seal washes ashore. He was the one who posted with dollar signs. He was the one who was being evasive. Pressing for info is how I play the game, and here was a clear opportunity to find out why an elephant was standing in the room. If you don't press for info, then how do you ever find mafia??? Also, your analogy of comparing my pressing him for info on a fake posting restriction and a Day One Mass Claim are completely ridiculous, even with the /hyperbole qualification behind it.
In as much as I was right, I also don't care much that you've accused me of WIFOM, Gaming the Mod, Rolefishing, a False Dilemma, and mis-Representing Information. Dropping buzzwords and trying to associate them with my name doesn't fly with me. My reason for voting Xyre was never WIFOM, I did game the Mod (but it was not without reason, and I ended up being right), Rolefishing is an exaggeration, the False Dilemma was sarcasm, and my mis-representation of Xyre as a liar was not a misrep at all.
On the flipside to all of this, I will admit that I didn't even remotely think of the possibility that Xyre needed to post that way in order to activate some ability. That would be the first time I've ever seen that, and to me it seems a rather unorthodox and superfluous drawback to a role, but I can buy it for the time being and I will therefore Unvote.
As for who is mafia, I will probably end up voting for Carrion Pigeons. I haven't got a read on Cubus, but that post where he defended me was kinda weird (but him and Dakkon are two people that I've played with at 'News, so it might be that they know me better and realize that its my style to be on the attack when I see something that's not right). I've got my eye on a couple others, but I don't have anything solid quite yet so I'll keep quiet for the time being.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
My helpdesk should you need me.
So I went back to 'News and actually counted the games, and I guess I've only played in 7 games, modded 1, and I'm currently in 3 (2 at News, 1 here). In those 7 games, I've experienced 3 false posting restriction/ability claims: Xyre, Players Choice Mafia, Mafia; MD_, Mechanic Mafia, Town; Hawkeye, Tarantino Mafia, Mafia. I was heavily involved in the getting the Town to not lynch MD_ by figuring out he had a voting restriction, and I was heavily involved in lynching Hawkeye despite his insistence on having a posting restriction. I was NK'd Night 1 during Player's Choice, so I really didn't have time to get into it with Xyre.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
So you claim to have been setting bait, then consider me suspicious for not taking it?
FO: You will "probably end up voting for Carrion Pigeons"? Any reason why, or are you just following a wagon?
Nai: Do you have reason to believe that Xyre replacing the letter 's' with dollar signs would allow him to activate some ability?
My helpdesk should you need me.
The reasons aren't much different than what others have already posted. His zeal to want to lynch lurkers almost immediately is one point. The other point was the way that he was suggesting that we impose some deadline on ourselves. Deadlines suck and the one time I have played when we had a deadline imposed we were forced into a bad lynch.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29