First, gorckat, can you explain why you seem to have had a change of hearts between Post #58 and Post #89? In 58 you're helping in pushing the Zigathon-wagon, while in 89 you're unvoting. What between those two posts made you find Zig less scummy?
Absolutely!
I'm not convinced of his innocence, only persuaded that the lack of unvoting isn't as damning as I first thought. I unvoted to be certain that I could move my focus (which I have to Everlaster) and not get caught up the way he (Zig) did
In post 92, once I'd actually had my lunch break and a little more time to reflect, I put the FOS back on him (and Everlaster).
I think my earlier assessment holds true- either he's scummy and the other mafia didn't vote, or he's innocent and the only reason he isn't lynched is because they were among the voters (Everlaster?) and couldn't get over the hump.
Although I do suppose that's a little bit of stating the obvious
I'm really eager to see how Everlaster explains the contradiction between his pushing the Zig vote and stating that several/three days had passed between his posts/the original vote- I really want him to clarify all that. My previous two posts cover it all, I think...
What sort of explainations should I provide? My accidental double voting? I thought I'd already unvoted. I was mistaken. The whole reason I'd voted for Dagger in the first place was because I'd read Dreamblade's post and responded with a spite vote. My jumping on a bandwagon early in the game? Big deal. It was the beginning of the game. With no information and all votes being random, I decided to just go with the flow citing that I like bandwagons. I really didn't have another reason. My spite vote for Dreamblade? This I can see the logic on and is the only solid reason I can understand for anyone voting for me. In hindsight, it probably wasn't the right choice to make. However, by claiming my posts were over defensive when my back is against a wall due to the shallow reasons of the bandwagon against me does seem rather scummy. Especially when after attempting to explain myself, regardless what I say, I'm met with, "That's just not convincing enough." While I don't believe it deserves a vote, I still think its rather suspisious. Unvote.
My accidental double voting? I thought I'd already unvoted. I was mistaken. The whole reason I'd voted for Dagger in the first place was because I'd read Dreamblade's post and responded with a spite vote.I didn't realize Dagger had posted another message and I assumed that was who I was responding to. Thus, after realizing my mistake, I changed my vote to the proper person and forgot to unvote.
It was a joke vote at the time, and I don't see that Zig's minor scumminess constitutes a claim from him. I didn't want him to have to claim Day One, espcially since I disagree that he is scummy, so I unvoted. He just seems to be behaing newbishly to me.
It didn't warrant him claiming, I agree, but I still find it odd you would put a joke-vote on someone who's already under suspicion and has two votes. The timing of your votes has me concerned.
As for your panic, after the vote tally was posted, I really don't see how anyone else would've voted for him. Had they done so, after the tally and after others said to wait before adding more votes, I assure you that they would've been under heavy scrutiny for attempting to speed-lynch.
To Zigathon:
Quote from "Zigathon" »
My spite vote for Dreamblade? This I can see the logic on and is the only solid reason I can understand for anyone voting for me. In hindsight, it probably wasn't the right choice to make. However, by claiming my posts were over defensive when my back is against a wall due to the shallow reasons of the bandwagon against me does seem rather scummy. Especially when after attempting to explain myself, regardless what I say, I'm met with, "That's just not convincing enough." While I don't believe it deserves a vote, I still think its rather suspisious.
Simply put, I don't see how telling people that you aren't scum will get people off your case.
As for your overdefensiveness, here's a post of yours:
Oh, my bad. I thought I'd unvoted Dagger before voting for Dreamblade. Thanks for pointing it out.
My only vote that isn't random has been for Dreamblade. But really, its only a half-hearted gesture until someone does something scummy. Of course, it seems everyone is rather enjoying hoping on the "vote zigathon" bandwagon, regardless how scummy they claim it made me look when I did it.
The post above was fine until the last sentence. That last sentence seems like you're trying to turn everyone's suspicion of you against everyone else.
A few notes:
1. Rogue was the 3rd vote on both Zig and AK9 - Something to keep in mind of.
2. Everlaster seemed gung-ho in pushing for Zig's lynch but backed off immediately with regards to AK9 in like 2 posts, to the extent of un-FOS? Suspicious, I say.
I'm still a little put off by Zig's jumping onto Rouge Rogue because he 'likes bandwagons'...I was mostly convinced by the logic folks presented as to why he wasn't scummy. But if other scum hadn't yet voted him and he was townie, there's no reason not to push him over. Either he's scum or the other scum had already voted him, which I suppose narrows down some options...
3. I have learned that scums do vote their scum buddies in order to alleviate suspicion from the town that they are linked. And if a scum was to push a wagon over into a lynch without giving a good reason, he would be lynched the next day by the town, if they are sensible enough, or vigged but that's not really the point in this game.
How many scum are there, anyway? 3? Do we even know?
4. Usually it's in the ratio of 3 town: 1 mafia or 25% mafia, not taking power roles into account. So, yes, 3 scums would be a reasonable assumption in this game.
Because it's always bad to try to get info out of scummy looking guys.
5. Sarcasm does not help your case. You were trying to distance yourself from any voting in the random votes stage, and then trying to jump onto a rapidly growing bandwagon before trying to pry for info immediately. That summed up my case against you.
Also, I'd like the following players to chime in with their thoughts, as they have posted little to no content:
Silent Prophet
Sene
Sjelfrost
InfinityCubed
6. Seconded.
7. Skating under the radar when you are under suspicion does not usually help you. It merely cements my suspicion of you. As are lurkers of course, but lurkers are always under suspicion so that point is rather moot.
8. In order of my suspicion right now: ApokalypseKid9>Everlaster>Rouge Rogue>Zigathon. My vote stays as it is for now.
@Zchinque: Yes, it is very much time for me to start making an inpact on this game, I guess, as I have been sitting on the fence so far, no doubt. Sorry for that.
Anyway..
@Zigathon: On the small, but yet agressive, case against Zigathon, I must say I found you very confusing with your votes flying everywhere at the beginning. Certanly scummy behaviour, and it took quite a while before you defended yourself in a proper way. I have to admit, I did find your whole show a bit newbish, and I did think it might just be that; newbish. I see when you finally defended yourself, that is more or less what you claim. You didn't think your actions would matter, as it was mostly based on randomness and confusion around unvoting and such. And even though your over defensiveness did not help on your case, I do buy this exlenation somewhat for now. But I will still keep my FoS on you, as your behaviour has yet to make complete sense to me.
@ApokalypseKid9: I do also have some trouble with you trying to get a talent claim from Zigathon at the point you did. The bandwagon just seemed to random for me, and his behaviour just not quite scummy enough to push to such degrees so early in the game. I do understand that pushing scummy people for info is the way to go for finding the dreaded scum, but I feel it was just uncalled for at this point. You have neither explained this very much, other than an ironic remark back in #97 FOS AK9
As for now, this is the thoughts I have made so far. This is my first ever game, so Im treading carefully. My posting frequenzy should however increase from now on.
My official Why I Voted Zig / Why I Tried To Get A Talent Claim Post.
Why I voted Zig: He seemed scummy. The voting w/o unvoting wasn't major, but was certainly odd considering that they were OMGUS votes anyway. When people questioned his choices, he OMGUS'd and didn't provide logical reasoning as to why he was town. The reason I was the 6th vote was because I finally decided that his scummyness warranted a vote. I figured that I was doing the right thing, voting the most scummy person.
Why I asked for a talent, not name (or necessarily role) claim:
He was at a good # of votes, 5-6 at the time I asked, I don't feel like checking now, and a good believable claim would clear him of at least my vote. An unbelievable, or out-right scum sounding claim would trigger the final vote, lynching what the town believed at the time was the right lynchee. I asked for the claim, partly because I saw it as standard practice in other games, where somebody close to a lynch would claim to clear themselves, or the claim would be the death knell of scum.
My Theory On Why Everlaster Voted Me Then Unvoted After My Post:
I think Everlaster is going for the false throw-under a bus. Where Everlaster, who I believe is scum, chooses a townie being voted, me, and does something suspicious with them, namely vote then unvote.
This has led me to the conclusion that Everlaster is scum. Vote Everlaster
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
[color="darkgreen"]
An elaboration on the Everlaster thing:
I prolly worded it poorly with the "throw under bus" thing. The point I'm trying to make is that Everlaster is trying to make us look like scumbuddies, by doing something rediculous enough that no towny would do. His action was trying to get me wrongly lynched. I have to say that it'd be a big regret to lose an anti-scum voter.
About the sarcasm: I again, prolly worded it wrong, I just figured it was the best way to express my point. I just meant that getting info from suspicious people is something that I thought was a good idea.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
[quote=ApokalypseKid9;/comments/10520086][color="darkgreen"]
An elaboration on the Everlaster thing:
I prolly worded it poorly with the "throw under bus" thing. The point I'm trying to make is that Everlaster is trying to make us look like scumbuddies, by doing something rediculous enough that no towny would do. His action was trying to get me wrongly lynched.quote]
I'd say this borders to WIFOM. Even goes past the border
Why I asked for a talent, not name (or necessarily role) claim:
He was at a good # of votes, 5-6 at the time I asked, I don't feel like checking now, and a good believable claim would clear him of at least my vote. An unbelievable, or out-right scum sounding claim would trigger the final vote, lynching what the town believed at the time was the right lynchee. I asked for the claim, partly because I saw it as standard practice in other games, where somebody close to a lynch would claim to clear themselves, or the claim would be the death knell of scum.
See, I'm not a fan of name/role/flavor claims because I see it used too many times as a substitute for discussion, analysis, and proper playing. In many games, over-reliance of claims has caused the town to lose.
[quote=ApokalypseKid9;/comments/10520086][color="darkgreen"]
An elaboration on the Everlaster thing:
I prolly worded it poorly with the "throw under bus" thing. The point I'm trying to make is that Everlaster is trying to make us look like scumbuddies, by doing something rediculous enough that no towny would do. His action was trying to get me wrongly lynched.quote]
I'd say this borders to WIFOM. Even goes past the border
[color="darkgreen"]
What do you mean? It's just my theory. I don't know if it's right, feel free to disbelieve it. I was just putting it out there.
[/color]
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
I'm still waiting to see Everlaster explain his wanting to push Zig off the island right after the vote count was posted and then later saying he did it because a few days had gone by and that it was too close to lynch for his liking as well.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
I'm not going to vote Apocalypsekid here. Random bandwagons are good not to lynch, but to see the reactions.
Quote from gorckat »
I'm still waiting to see Everlaster explain his wanting to push Zig off the island right after the vote count was posted and then later saying he did it because a few days had gone by and that it was too close to lynch for his liking as well.
A few notes:
1. When a bandwagon is rapidly growing with people jumping in and citing suspicious reasons (or no reasons at all) for doing so, it's time to take a step back and reevaluate. Fast lynching = bad lynching since it curtails discussion by ending the day too quickly.
2. Just because one is under lots of votes, one shouldn't claim immediately unless one really have to. Besides, claims could be faked by desperate mafia. And in games such as these where it isn't really based on any themes, claims could be faked easily enough.
The point I'm trying to make is that Everlaster is trying to make us look like scumbuddies, by doing something rediculous enough that no towny would do. His action was trying to get me wrongly lynched. I have to say that it'd be a big regret to lose an anti-scum voter.
3. WIFOM indeed. That would mean Everlaster is purposely implicating himself as a scum by making you both look as 'scumbuddies'. Even if he really is a scum, sacrificing himself just to take one townie down seems very unlikely.
Standard Newb question: Are we required to UnFos as well?
5. Not really. Which was why when Everlaster unFoS deliberately to show that he's not suspicious of AK9 anymore within a single post, I grew suspicious of him.
6. I am still waiting for Everlaster to answer his case too, as are the appearances of our absent friends.
I'm still not quite happy with your explanations, but I'll let it go for now. There is just one more thing I want you to answer; who do you believe are the most scummy players, and why? I'm also going to unvote Zigathon, as it seems we are better off looking elsewhere for now. You're still high on my list of suspects though, so I might come back to you later. IGMEOY Zig.
Standard Newb question: Are we required to UnFos as well? Because I'm not thinking Dreamblade is looking too scummy right now.
In most games FOSes don't have any particular meaning, except stating that you are suspicious of someone. So, unFOSing is not necessary, but you can do it if you wish to show that you are no longer suspicious of someone.
Why I asked for a talent, not name (or necessarily role) claim:
Now you're just confusing me... What do you mean by "a talent claim"? Up until now I was under impression that you meant a role claim, which doesn't seem to be the case.
My Theory On Why Everlaster Voted Me Then Unvoted After My Post:
I think Everlaster is going for the false throw-under a bus. Where Everlaster, who I believe is scum, chooses a townie being voted, me, and does something suspicious with them, namely vote then unvote.
Can you explain what you mean here, because I don't think that I understand it.
There are several ongoing cases, but I'm going to do a reread and go over my notes before chiming in on any of them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
3. WIFOM indeed. That would mean Everlaster is purposely implicating himself as a scum by making you both look as 'scumbuddies'. Even if he really is a scum, sacrificing himself just to take one townie down seems very unlikely.
This sums up my thoughts pretty well on the quote in question.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
I had issues arise that left me unable to get on here to contribute, or even to tell people I wouldn't be around for a couple of days. I'll go through and read what I missed. My apologies.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
You're saying that ideas that turns out to be rubbish, are ideas that works?
I said that the idea ended up NOT working out. About the "role" claim, to be specific I wanted to know his talent, seeing as this is "Talent Show Mafia" I figured he have a talent that could help to provide info without a real role claim.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
I said that the idea ended up NOT working out. About the "role" claim, to be specific I wanted to know his talent, seeing as this is "Talent Show Mafia" I figured he have a talent that could help to provide info without a real role claim.
And seeing how this is "Talent Show Mafia", a talent claim might as well be a name or role claim. Again, forcing this kind of info on the first bandwagon of the game is a really bad choice.
And seeing how this is "Talent Show Mafia", a talent claim might as well be a name or role claim. Again, forcing this kind of info on the first bandwagon of the game is a really bad choice.
Okay. I made a mistake. I geuss I shouldnt've done that. Did it do any damage though?
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
Okay. I made a mistake. I geuss I shouldnt've done that. Did it do any damage though?
The point is not really wheter it did damage or not; and you are of course right, it didn't in the end. The point is that it made you look scummy, and it's the sort of behaviour I would be looking for to detect scum. It didn't do any damage, but did you intend to? Thats the way I see it.
You hate me and I'm sad
But let me tell you why I'm not bad
I wanted the game to pick up the pace
So my attention span didn't go off in space
So I pushed us a wagon
[that others did follow]
and when it was finished
you get mad at mainly me for pushing it even though some of you guys joined in
I wouldn't have hammered anybody/ or advise it, I just wanted to try at figure out if he was scum. Now he doesn't look as scummy, and I retracted my vote. AK9 had my vote, but for me being newb, and not remembering it was a talent show mafia. I'm sry.
@Everlaster: Not remembering it's a talent show mafia? I wonder... did you even read your PM? Anyone else find that suspicious? And no, let's not talk about the content of our PMs yet. (If you post that in the creative writings, I might comment. :p)
@InfinityCubed: And why is that? You have got 5 posts. In three of them, you voted Rogue, AK9 and Everlaster respectively. In one of them, you agreed Everlaster was suspicious in trying to push a wagon. In your latest and last one, you unvoted everyone you voted. All of your posts consist of one to two sentences. I think you are trying to make your presence known without really participating. FoS:InfinityCubed
Everlaster: You first tried to hide behind several/three days passing as why you pushed to lynch Zig. Now you're trying to say we voted to as the reason you pushed.
My point was you pushed hard and rapidly (my post 95 has a timeline*) until people started unVoting and just putting a FOS on Zig.
*(Something I left out of that was that only 17 minutes passed between you saying he had to prove himself and then saying it was too close to a lynch for you.)
Dagger: I agree that infinityCubed seems suspect- his votes hop with little explanation.
Your behaviour just doesn't make any sence to me! You're voting here and there, without much explanation, and now suddenly you unvote with not a single comment on why you did it?
So, InfinityCubed, could you please care to give some thoughts on who you think are scummy and who's not?
@gorkat: I"m not saying I pushed because you guys voted, I'm saying I pushed to try to help get the game started, and that when I decided it was started, or could be continued another way (i believe that at the time it was due to ak9) I unvoted.
We've got a week left before nightfall; we really need to continue discussion.
Let's go over everything:
Zigathon puts the third vote on Rouge Rogue early in the day, with his reasoning being that he likes random bandwagons. The next two pages involve him being voted hard, with him putting up a pretty poor defense (including OMGUS votes) which gathers him even more votes. However, reactions from other players is what makes this bandwagon interesting:
ApokalypseKid9 asks for a talent claim. He gains a lot of suspicion due to the timing of his forcing a claim (immediately after the vote count, on the first suspect of the game), and thus ends up as the second main suspect in this game.
Additionally, we have three other possible suspects:
Everlaster -- gorckat already covered his quick turn-around concerning suspicions of Zigathon in post 95. Is Everlaster trying to hide behind townies?
Rouge Rogue -- I put a case against him in 96 (a few FOSes were thrown in his direction beforehand, though). Essentially, he puts a vote on Zigathon (when there were two votes on him already, and a case being made the page before). He later retracts his vote after the tally, saying it was a joke vote and that he didn't find Zigathon scummy. On the next page, he puts the third vote on ApokalypseKid9 for rolefishing on Day 1, when the charges against AK9 had already started on Page 5 (before Rouge Rogue had unvoted Zigathon; he mentions nothing in his "unvote Zig" post about AK9's forcing a claim).
Then, there's InfinityCubed -- Vote hopping, very few posts, very short posts, and almost no explanation for why he's doing it.
It's interesting to note that, for whatever the reason may be, InfinityCubed had not posted during the Zigathon bandwagon. Considering he didn't think Zigathon was scummy and said as such in post 88, I'm surprised he didn't attempt to defend him earlier.
So, is there anything else I should've mentioned here? Any other leads or ideas as to what we should do next?
From quick browing DB's post above, I say that I think IC is Zig's scum buddy [just using info from that DB's post, no bias'] trying to not get him lynched, by not voting him? I think that sounds scummy. unvote [just in case] FOS: infinity cubed not enuf info to go on ... yet!
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
Before the day ends, may I advise IC to say something more? It may help him, may hinder him, may give us townies stuff to use against him, we don't know, but we really need IC to speak before the days over.
Before the day ends, may I advise IC to say something more? It may help him, may hinder him, may give us townies stuff to use against him, we don't know, but we really need IC to speak before the days over.
Just about everyone needs to post more; we've got a week left, and we really don't want to lynch without gathering as much info as possible.
Well, there isn't much for me to say. The bandwagon against me crashed, and the only suspect I have is IC, and even he isn't terribly suspicious to me.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
If IC is suspect for staying low, then who else fits the category?
If IC is suspect for maybe trying to keep his [proposed] scum buddy Zig safe, who else didn't vote / express mal intent for him?
If IC is suspect for just being a newb, then we have a prob with Newb Mafia...
Sry for the 2x post, forgot to add:
If IC was trying to prot Zig, that means Zig is scum too, so we either have none, or 2 for 1. If one dies scum, then there's a good chance the other is scum as well.
Absolutely!
I'm not convinced of his innocence, only persuaded that the lack of unvoting isn't as damning as I first thought. I unvoted to be certain that I could move my focus (which I have to Everlaster) and not get caught up the way he (Zig) did
In post 92, once I'd actually had my lunch break and a little more time to reflect, I put the FOS back on him (and Everlaster).
I think my earlier assessment holds true- either he's scummy and the other mafia didn't vote, or he's innocent and the only reason he isn't lynched is because they were among the voters (Everlaster?) and couldn't get over the hump.
Although I do suppose that's a little bit of stating the obvious
I'm really eager to see how Everlaster explains the contradiction between his pushing the Zig vote and stating that several/three days had passed between his posts/the original vote- I really want him to clarify all that. My previous two posts cover it all, I think...
Until he does, my vote is on him (Everlaster).
Magic scoresheet for download
Turn reference chart for download
My accidental double voting? I thought I'd already unvoted. I was mistaken. The whole reason I'd voted for Dagger in the first place was because I'd read Dreamblade's post and responded with a spite vote.
My jumping on a bandwagon early in the game? Big deal. It was the beginning of the game. With no information and all votes being random, I decided to just go with the flow citing that I like bandwagons. I really didn't have another reason.
My spite vote for Dreamblade? This I can see the logic on and is the only solid reason I can understand for anyone voting for me. In hindsight, it probably wasn't the right choice to make. However, by claiming my posts were over defensive when my back is against a wall due to the shallow reasons of the bandwagon against me does seem rather scummy. Especially when after attempting to explain myself, regardless what I say, I'm met with, "That's just not convincing enough." While I don't believe it deserves a vote, I still think its rather suspisious.
Unvote.
FOS: Dreamblade.
My accidental double voting? I thought I'd already unvoted. I was mistaken. The whole reason I'd voted for Dagger in the first place was because I'd read Dreamblade's post and responded with a spite vote. I didn't realize Dagger had posted another message and I assumed that was who I was responding to. Thus, after realizing my mistake, I changed my vote to the proper person and forgot to unvote.
It didn't warrant him claiming, I agree, but I still find it odd you would put a joke-vote on someone who's already under suspicion and has two votes. The timing of your votes has me concerned.
As for your panic, after the vote tally was posted, I really don't see how anyone else would've voted for him. Had they done so, after the tally and after others said to wait before adding more votes, I assure you that they would've been under heavy scrutiny for attempting to speed-lynch.
To Zigathon:
Simply put, I don't see how telling people that you aren't scum will get people off your case.
As for your overdefensiveness, here's a post of yours:
The post above was fine until the last sentence. That last sentence seems like you're trying to turn everyone's suspicion of you against everyone else.
1. Rogue was the 3rd vote on both Zig and AK9 - Something to keep in mind of.
2. Everlaster seemed gung-ho in pushing for Zig's lynch but backed off immediately with regards to AK9 in like 2 posts, to the extent of un-FOS? Suspicious, I say.
3. I have learned that scums do vote their scum buddies in order to alleviate suspicion from the town that they are linked. And if a scum was to push a wagon over into a lynch without giving a good reason, he would be lynched the next day by the town, if they are sensible enough, or vigged but that's not really the point in this game.
4. Usually it's in the ratio of 3 town: 1 mafia or 25% mafia, not taking power roles into account. So, yes, 3 scums would be a reasonable assumption in this game.
5. Sarcasm does not help your case. You were trying to distance yourself from any voting in the random votes stage, and then trying to jump onto a rapidly growing bandwagon before trying to pry for info immediately. That summed up my case against you.
6. Seconded.
7. Skating under the radar when you are under suspicion does not usually help you. It merely cements my suspicion of you. As are lurkers of course, but lurkers are always under suspicion so that point is rather moot.
8. In order of my suspicion right now: ApokalypseKid9>Everlaster>Rouge Rogue>Zigathon. My vote stays as it is for now.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Anyway..
@Zigathon: On the small, but yet agressive, case against Zigathon, I must say I found you very confusing with your votes flying everywhere at the beginning. Certanly scummy behaviour, and it took quite a while before you defended yourself in a proper way. I have to admit, I did find your whole show a bit newbish, and I did think it might just be that; newbish. I see when you finally defended yourself, that is more or less what you claim. You didn't think your actions would matter, as it was mostly based on randomness and confusion around unvoting and such. And even though your over defensiveness did not help on your case, I do buy this exlenation somewhat for now. But I will still keep my FoS on you, as your behaviour has yet to make complete sense to me.
@ApokalypseKid9: I do also have some trouble with you trying to get a talent claim from Zigathon at the point you did. The bandwagon just seemed to random for me, and his behaviour just not quite scummy enough to push to such degrees so early in the game. I do understand that pushing scummy people for info is the way to go for finding the dreaded scum, but I feel it was just uncalled for at this point. You have neither explained this very much, other than an ironic remark back in #97 FOS AK9
As for now, this is the thoughts I have made so far. This is my first ever game, so Im treading carefully. My posting frequenzy should however increase from now on.
This should of course be "a sarcastic remark". Sorry for having to double post.
My official Why I Voted Zig / Why I Tried To Get A Talent Claim Post.
Why I voted Zig: He seemed scummy. The voting w/o unvoting wasn't major, but was certainly odd considering that they were OMGUS votes anyway. When people questioned his choices, he OMGUS'd and didn't provide logical reasoning as to why he was town. The reason I was the 6th vote was because I finally decided that his scummyness warranted a vote. I figured that I was doing the right thing, voting the most scummy person.
Why I asked for a talent, not name (or necessarily role) claim:
He was at a good # of votes, 5-6 at the time I asked, I don't feel like checking now, and a good believable claim would clear him of at least my vote. An unbelievable, or out-right scum sounding claim would trigger the final vote, lynching what the town believed at the time was the right lynchee. I asked for the claim, partly because I saw it as standard practice in other games, where somebody close to a lynch would claim to clear themselves, or the claim would be the death knell of scum.
My Theory On Why Everlaster Voted Me Then Unvoted After My Post:
I think Everlaster is going for the false throw-under a bus. Where Everlaster, who I believe is scum, chooses a townie being voted, me, and does something suspicious with them, namely vote then unvote.
This has led me to the conclusion that Everlaster is scum. Vote Everlaster
My other banners not in use
Goodbye Cruel World, It's Over, Walk On By
Follow
An elaboration on the Everlaster thing:
I prolly worded it poorly with the "throw under bus" thing. The point I'm trying to make is that Everlaster is trying to make us look like scumbuddies, by doing something rediculous enough that no towny would do. His action was trying to get me wrongly lynched. I have to say that it'd be a big regret to lose an anti-scum voter.
About the sarcasm: I again, prolly worded it wrong, I just figured it was the best way to express my point. I just meant that getting info from suspicious people is something that I thought was a good idea.
My other banners not in use
Goodbye Cruel World, It's Over, Walk On By
Follow
An elaboration on the Everlaster thing:
I prolly worded it poorly with the "throw under bus" thing. The point I'm trying to make is that Everlaster is trying to make us look like scumbuddies, by doing something rediculous enough that no towny would do. His action was trying to get me wrongly lynched.quote]
I'd say this borders to WIFOM. Even goes past the border
See, I'm not a fan of name/role/flavor claims because I see it used too many times as a substitute for discussion, analysis, and proper playing. In many games, over-reliance of claims has caused the town to lose.
[color="darkgreen"]
What do you mean? It's just my theory. I don't know if it's right, feel free to disbelieve it. I was just putting it out there.
[/color]
My other banners not in use
Goodbye Cruel World, It's Over, Walk On By
Follow
Okay then, it was just a thought. meh.
My other banners not in use
Goodbye Cruel World, It's Over, Walk On By
Follow
Magic scoresheet for download
Turn reference chart for download
3 ApokalypseKid9 - Dagger, InfinityCubed, Rouge Rogue
2 Zigathon - Zchinque, ApokalypseKid9
1 Everlaster - gorckat
1 Rouge Rogue - DreamBlade
1 Sjelfrost - Sene
4 Not Voting - Everlaster, Silent Prophet, Sjelfrost, Zigathon
With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
Prods are going to go out tomorrow for anyone who hasn't posted in the last couple days.
Magic scoresheet for download
Turn reference chart for download
FOS: Rouge Rogue
FOS: ApokalypseKid9
oops, I forgot, Unvote, Vote Everlaster.
My other banners not in use
Goodbye Cruel World, It's Over, Walk On By
Follow
Me too. I hesitate to vote, but FOS: Everlaster.
1. When a bandwagon is rapidly growing with people jumping in and citing suspicious reasons (or no reasons at all) for doing so, it's time to take a step back and reevaluate. Fast lynching = bad lynching since it curtails discussion by ending the day too quickly.
2. Just because one is under lots of votes, one shouldn't claim immediately unless one really have to. Besides, claims could be faked by desperate mafia. And in games such as these where it isn't really based on any themes, claims could be faked easily enough.
3. WIFOM indeed. That would mean Everlaster is purposely implicating himself as a scum by making you both look as 'scumbuddies'. Even if he really is a scum, sacrificing himself just to take one townie down seems very unlikely.
4. That could just be a honest mistake, as is the one I saw in Zig. It just doesn't make sense as a scum tell.
5. Not really. Which was why when Everlaster unFoS deliberately to show that he's not suspicious of AK9 anymore within a single post, I grew suspicious of him.
6. I am still waiting for Everlaster to answer his case too, as are the appearances of our absent friends.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Magic scoresheet for download
Turn reference chart for download
I'm still not quite happy with your explanations, but I'll let it go for now. There is just one more thing I want you to answer; who do you believe are the most scummy players, and why?
I'm also going to unvote Zigathon, as it seems we are better off looking elsewhere for now. You're still high on my list of suspects though, so I might come back to you later. IGMEOY Zig.
In most games FOSes don't have any particular meaning, except stating that you are suspicious of someone. So, unFOSing is not necessary, but you can do it if you wish to show that you are no longer suspicious of someone.
Now you're just confusing me... What do you mean by "a talent claim"? Up until now I was under impression that you meant a role claim, which doesn't seem to be the case.
Can you explain what you mean here, because I don't think that I understand it.
There are several ongoing cases, but I'm going to do a reread and go over my notes before chiming in on any of them.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
This sums up my thoughts pretty well on the quote in question.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Official Deschanel Stalker of The Called
Okay, it turns out my theory was prolly wrong. Like I said in my last post, it was just an ideaso it works out not making sense. Fine.
My other banners not in use
Goodbye Cruel World, It's Over, Walk On By
Follow
You're saying that ideas that turns out to be rubbish, are ideas that works?
I said that the idea ended up NOT working out. About the "role" claim, to be specific I wanted to know his talent, seeing as this is "Talent Show Mafia" I figured he have a talent that could help to provide info without a real role claim.
My other banners not in use
Goodbye Cruel World, It's Over, Walk On By
Follow
Everlaster is the one looking bad in my eyes, Vote: Everlaster
/Official "White and Nerdy" Poster Boy of The Called\
Good Movie Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
Mortal Kombat Mafia - Mafia - Lynched - Loss
Star Wars Mafia II - Townie - Exploded - Loss
Newbie Mafia 11 - Townie - Survived - Loss
Don't Fear the Reaper Mafia - Solo Mafia after day 1 - Survived - Win
Unluckyville Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
View Askew Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
Want to elabarate a bit on your views on Everlaster? Also, I believe you've forgotten to unvote, if I'm not mistaken.
And seeing how this is "Talent Show Mafia", a talent claim might as well be a name or role claim. Again, forcing this kind of info on the first bandwagon of the game is a really bad choice.
Okay. I made a mistake. I geuss I shouldnt've done that. Did it do any damage though?
My other banners not in use
Goodbye Cruel World, It's Over, Walk On By
Follow
The point is not really wheter it did damage or not; and you are of course right, it didn't in the end. The point is that it made you look scummy, and it's the sort of behaviour I would be looking for to detect scum. It didn't do any damage, but did you intend to? Thats the way I see it.
But let me tell you why I'm not bad
I wanted the game to pick up the pace
So my attention span didn't go off in space
So I pushed us a wagon
[that others did follow]
and when it was finished
you get mad at mainly me for pushing it even though some of you guys joined in
I wouldn't have hammered anybody/ or advise it, I just wanted to try at figure out if he was scum. Now he doesn't look as scummy, and I retracted my vote. AK9 had my vote, but for me being newb, and not remembering it was a talent show mafia. I'm sry.
Acolyte of Spell Manipulation
/Official "White and Nerdy" Poster Boy of The Called\
Good Movie Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
Mortal Kombat Mafia - Mafia - Lynched - Loss
Star Wars Mafia II - Townie - Exploded - Loss
Newbie Mafia 11 - Townie - Survived - Loss
Don't Fear the Reaper Mafia - Solo Mafia after day 1 - Survived - Win
Unluckyville Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
View Askew Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
@InfinityCubed: And why is that? You have got 5 posts. In three of them, you voted Rogue, AK9 and Everlaster respectively. In one of them, you agreed Everlaster was suspicious in trying to push a wagon. In your latest and last one, you unvoted everyone you voted. All of your posts consist of one to two sentences. I think you are trying to make your presence known without really participating. FoS:InfinityCubed
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
My point was you pushed hard and rapidly (my post 95 has a timeline*) until people started unVoting and just putting a FOS on Zig.
*(Something I left out of that was that only 17 minutes passed between you saying he had to prove himself and then saying it was too close to a lynch for you.)
Dagger: I agree that infinityCubed seems suspect- his votes hop with little explanation.
Magic scoresheet for download
Turn reference chart for download
So, InfinityCubed, could you please care to give some thoughts on who you think are scummy and who's not?
You have until Sunday, February 4th, at 6:00 PM EST, to lynch.
Acolyte of Spell Manipulation
Let's go over everything:
Zigathon puts the third vote on Rouge Rogue early in the day, with his reasoning being that he likes random bandwagons. The next two pages involve him being voted hard, with him putting up a pretty poor defense (including OMGUS votes) which gathers him even more votes. However, reactions from other players is what makes this bandwagon interesting:
ApokalypseKid9 asks for a talent claim. He gains a lot of suspicion due to the timing of his forcing a claim (immediately after the vote count, on the first suspect of the game), and thus ends up as the second main suspect in this game.
Additionally, we have three other possible suspects:
Everlaster -- gorckat already covered his quick turn-around concerning suspicions of Zigathon in post 95. Is Everlaster trying to hide behind townies?
Rouge Rogue -- I put a case against him in 96 (a few FOSes were thrown in his direction beforehand, though). Essentially, he puts a vote on Zigathon (when there were two votes on him already, and a case being made the page before). He later retracts his vote after the tally, saying it was a joke vote and that he didn't find Zigathon scummy. On the next page, he puts the third vote on ApokalypseKid9 for rolefishing on Day 1, when the charges against AK9 had already started on Page 5 (before Rouge Rogue had unvoted Zigathon; he mentions nothing in his "unvote Zig" post about AK9's forcing a claim).
Then, there's InfinityCubed -- Vote hopping, very few posts, very short posts, and almost no explanation for why he's doing it.
It's interesting to note that, for whatever the reason may be, InfinityCubed had not posted during the Zigathon bandwagon. Considering he didn't think Zigathon was scummy and said as such in post 88, I'm surprised he didn't attempt to defend him earlier.
So, is there anything else I should've mentioned here? Any other leads or ideas as to what we should do next?
unvote [just in case]
FOS: infinity cubed not enuf info to go on ... yet!
Acolyte of Spell Manipulation
unvote Everlaster
FOS Everlaster
I'm somewhat placated by Everlaster's reasoning for his vote behavior regarding Zig, but not enough to let him pour me a glass of wine
Zig and RR could have been voting each other to hide each other's scumminess.
But I think IC is the leading choice due his lack of activity and vote hops.
vote InfinityCubed
Magic scoresheet for download
Turn reference chart for download
The case against IC makes sense, but I don't see enough to lynch. FOS IC.
My other banners not in use
Goodbye Cruel World, It's Over, Walk On By
Follow
Acolyte of Spell Manipulation
Just about everyone needs to post more; we've got a week left, and we really don't want to lynch without gathering as much info as possible.
Well, there isn't much for me to say. The bandwagon against me crashed, and the only suspect I have is IC, and even he isn't terribly suspicious to me.
My other banners not in use
Goodbye Cruel World, It's Over, Walk On By
Follow
If IC is suspect for staying low, then who else fits the category?
If IC is suspect for maybe trying to keep his [proposed] scum buddy Zig safe, who else didn't vote / express mal intent for him?
If IC is suspect for just being a newb, then we have a prob with Newb Mafia...
Acolyte of Spell Manipulation
If IC was trying to prot Zig, that means Zig is scum too, so we either have none, or 2 for 1. If one dies scum, then there's a good chance the other is scum as well.
Acolyte of Spell Manipulation