Unvote, Vote:Chamber for saying he was trying to catch "scum" more than once, then when called out, just saying he was trying to catch a "neutral" and for the random vote with no explanation on DYH
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
/Official "White and Nerdy" Poster Boy of The Called\
It at the very least gives us something to discuss, there are many possible upsides, such as finding out that all the scum are from a single house. I was however perpusfully misleading in assuming that the houses showed allignment because I was trying to see if anyone would trip up. That wont happen now though.
What the...? You're trying to engage a Cunning Plan?
First of all, I was mostly confused because, while my win condition is townish in nature, I wasn't sure because SorryGuy doesn't use the word "town" or "mafia" anywhere in his PM, so I was worried that I had it confused. Thanks for secretly trying to get me wagoned as a neutral/SK.
But even the absurdity of that post doesn't compare with...
I didn't like dyhs attack on ged, I liked even less that he only fosed.
Yes, and what didn't you like about it?
@Ged: Pointing out that you've done something doesn't make it any less suspicious. (in this case blatantly defending ZDS this early over a pretty unsubstatianted attack.) FoS: Ged
I don't see anything inherently scummy. Maybe overreacting to something that isn't significant, but not necessarily scummy.
Ged was already at two votes, and it seemed to me like dyh was trying to make a strong enough push against ged to get a wagon rolling but weak enough that when looking back everyone wouldn't see that it was he who actually started the wagon.
Ged was already at two votes, and it seemed to me like dyh was trying to make a strong enough push against ged to get a wagon rolling but weak enough that when looking back everyone wouldn't see that it was he who actually started the wagon.
Okay, was that too hard?
Why didn't you go after DYH's point against Ged? It would seem to be the logical way of suspecting someone. And this kind of argument certainly doesn't deserve a vote.
Why didn't you go after DYH's point against Ged? It would seem to be the logical way of suspecting someone. And this kind of argument certainly doesn't deserve a vote.
I dont like getting in arguements when I can avoid it but if you insist: Ged always defends other people as town and as scum, its part of his playstlye.
Oh and on page 4 thats totaly enough for a wagon.
Stopping at 4/7? Thats hardly any pressure at all!
@kops (cause I frogot in the last post) One example of where a soft claim damaged the town doesn't undo all the games where it has helped the town.
Actually, it's five, I think. kops, ZDS, LookingforReality, InfinityCubed, Xyre.
Quote from Chamber »
I didn't like dyhs attack on ged, I liked even less that he only fosed.
That's irrational; your use of "only" implies that it would have been less scummy if he had voted for him, but you say yourself he's trying to start a wagon... wouldn't it be more effective in the long term to vote? There were already enough votes on Ged that it wouldn't look like starting a wagon but rather voicing an opinion.
I dont like getting in arguements when I can avoid it but if you insist: Ged always defends other people as town and as scum, its part of his playstlye.
Oh and on page 4 thats totaly enough for a wagon.
As is your awful play.
Chamber, I want you to claim, because honestly, you aren't benefiting your case in any other way.
I dont like getting in arguements when I can avoid it but if you insist: Ged always defends other people as town and as scum, its part of his playstlye.
Oh and on page 4 thats totaly enough for a wagon.
We can end the argument if necessary. I want more to comment. But for now, what is the likely hood that dyh was mafia knowing that ged was using that playstyle? It's very likely that he didn't know, or maybe, forgot. Perhaps that's why he didn't vote.
Chamber, I don't like how you are answering, but I want more to step in and comment before you do anything like claiming.
Actually, it's five, I think. kops, ZDS, LookingforReality, InfinityCubed, Xyre.
That's irrational; your use of "only" implies that it would have been less scummy if he had voted for him, but you say yourself he's trying to start a wagon... wouldn't it be more effective in the long term to vote? There were already enough votes on Ged that it wouldn't look like starting a wagon but rather voicing an opinion.
As is your awful play.
Chamber, I want you to claim, because honestly, you aren't benefiting your case in any other way.
Ah yes, I forgot kops voted a while back.
If he voted he would have left a more visible trail that he was on the wagon. Plus he would have been the first serious vote, which is what I define as starting it.
My play is fine.
Claim? At 5 votes? On day 1? Truthfuly? assuming the answer to the last one is no I got no problem claiming...
If he voted he would have left a more visible trail that he was on the wagon. Plus he would have been the first serious vote, which is what I define as starting it.
My play is fine.
Claim? At 5 votes? On day 1? Truthfuly? assuming the answer to the last one is no I got no problem claiming...
Well, honestly I could just wait for six votes, but your actions are abnormally scummy, so I wanted the claim. If you're comfortable with it, then do it, but I don't exactly understand what you're saying.
Also, while Ged seems scummy in certain respects (such as proposing a house claim, which I don't think benefits the town), I don't think he's scummy at the moment. I would prefer to address Chamber before Ged.
Umm... yeah vote totally stands.
First of all, a nurse in a mini seems unlikely, but I will not consider this anyway as that goes into outguessing the mod.
Secondly, a nurse may as well be a vanilla townie, except its a far scummier claim IMO. There is basically no way to confirm you, but you can still pass off as a "beneficial" role.
Thirdly, we have absolutely no reason to believe you based on your last couple posts.
Lastly, I think you're scum anyway. vote stands
Hmm. I don't quite get why a) a nurse would be in a 12-person game, b) a nurse would know he was a nurse in a 12-person game (too confirmable), and c) why your last sentence makes any sense at all ("if I could lie"? What the-?).
Just out of curiosity, I decided to do the shortest PBPA ever on Chamber.
13: Confirms.
17: Random votes, makes an inane comment about his random vote.
19: Responds to kops' not-very-random vote.
21: Notes that he confused kops with arimnaes.
24: Makes a comment that's indirectly related to Cyan's in 23. Wonders why nobody's voting for Ged.
27: Speculates on game flavor.
30: Proposes a house claim.
33: Asserts that I have to be neutral/SK because I'm confused by the game's flavor.
41: Protects his suggestion for a house claim. Then asserts that he was actually trying to engage a cunning plan to trip up scum.
43: Tries to protect his Cunning Plan.
47: Tries to protect his Cunning Plan.
49: Responds to ZDS' assertion, tries to protect his Cunning Plan.
51: Tries to protect his Cunning Plan, wonders why ZDS doesn't get his Cunning Plan.
54: Votes for DYH unexpectedly, citing his "sneakiness".
58: Notes his suspicions of DYH, tries to protect his Cunning Plan.
60: Points out that I said that he shouldn't have anymore pressure put on him despite the lack of votes, but gets the numbers wrong. Tries to protect his Cunning Plan.
62: Protects his vote... I think.
64: Asserts that Ged isn't scummy, asserts that it's late enough for a wagon. Doesn't really prove much.
68: Responds to my points. Does a poor job responding to my point (basically just restates his argument). Says he'll claim, but in a muddled way.
70: Claims nurse.
Now, I'm still troubled by how much effort he puts into protecting his Cunning Plan, which really seems like a scummy play. I think Chamber's lying through his teeth, averting blame onto DYH to cover himself, and arguing about minor issues to disguise the absurdity of his Cunning Plan.
@xyre so your case against me is two fold. First you think I defended my idea too much, and second you think I tried to take the focus off my idea and move it onto dyh. In responce to your first point I can only say that I was and still am in support of the house claim, as I feel its benefitial to the town. Why wouldnt I stand up for something I thought would help us win? Is there such thing as too much in this case? In responce to your second remark I'll point out that I still support the claim and am fine with goign through with it before persuing dyh as a play, I made that move in responce to a bad post, nothing more.
@ged stop agreeing with me, they'll figure out we are scum buddies.
@xyre so your case against me is two fold. First you think I defended my idea too much, and second you think I tried to take the focus off my idea and move it onto dyh. In responce to your first point I can only say that I was and still am in support of the house claim, as I feel its benefitial to the town. Why wouldnt I stand up for something I thought would help us win? Is there such thing as too much in this case? In responce to your second remark I'll point out that I still support the claim and am fine with goign through with it before persuing dyh as a play, I made that move in responce to a bad post, nothing more.
@ged stop agreeing with me, they'll figure out we are scum buddies.
No, my attacks on you are as follows.
1) Your Cunning Plan was idiotic.
2) House claiming is not guaranteed to benefit the town.
3) You a) did put too much of an emphasis on DYH, who didn't do anything scummy, and b) just now, addressed my point a), which I'd already made, in a particularly roundabout way.
4) You haven't seriously benefited the town; you say you're town, but your behavior is fairly awful.
5) I ask you for a claim and you treat me with something between contempt and scorn.
On a scale from 1 to Chamber, I think you're either terrible townie or scum. I'm thinking the latter.
No, my attacks on you are as follows.
1) Your Cunning Plan was idiotic.
2) House claiming is not guaranteed to benefit the town.
3) You a) did put too much of an emphasis on DYH, who didn't do anything scummy, and b) just now, addressed my point a), which I'd already made, in a particularly roundabout way.
4) You haven't seriously benefited the town; you say you're town, but your behavior is fairly awful.
5) I ask you for a claim and you treat me with something between contempt and scorn.
On a scale from 1 to Chamber, I think you're either terrible townie or scum. I'm thinking the latter.
1) No it wasn't, see my defence of it.
2) Nothing we do is guaranteed to help the town.
3) I dont feel it was roundabout.
4) who has seriously benefitted the town so far?
5) since when have you know me to claim.
1) No it wasn't, see my defence of it.
2) Nothing we do is guaranteed to help the town.
3) I dont feel it was roundabout.
4) who has seriously benefitted the town so far?
5) since when have you know me to claim.
1) If you were paying attention, you'd notice you haven't responded to my attacks on your Cunning Plan, dating back to post 59.
2) Obviously, nothing is ever "guaranteed", but what I meant was your action doesn't benefit the town. How would it, other than triggering your Cunning Plan, which also isn't beneficial?
3) Obviously. Here's what you said.
Quote from Chamber »
In responce to your second remark I'll point out that I still support the claim and am fine with goign through with it before persuing dyh as a play, I made that move in responce to a bad post, nothing more.
If I'm reading this right, your justification for attacking DYH is that he made a "bad post" and that "I still support the claim" before lynching him. But the problem is, the claim is your idea in the first place, so you're saying "let's do what I want to do before we do something else I want to do", which definitely doesn't me. Besides, that doesn't deal with part a.
4) That wasn't the question. In any event, you're the only person whom I would say has harmed the town.
5) Touche, but it certainly doesn't make me trust you any more.
I really don't see chamber as scummy right now. It's early game so his attack on DYH was as justified as anyone's is going to get on page 2 (I roll with the 40 post pages), and if he thought it was going to benefit the town, even if he was wrong, then defending his plan seems fine. And not claiming? That, as he has said, is just chamber being chamber.
The best attack I can see is that his wanting a mass house claim is something he knew would benefit himself, as scum, rather than the town. But I can just as easily see a mass house claim as helping the town as I can it helping the scum.
And finally,
Quote from chamber »
@ged stop agreeing with me, they'll figure out we are scum buddies.
I really don't see chamber as scummy right now. It's early game so his attack on DYH was as justified as anyone's is going to get on page 2 (I roll with the 40 post pages), and if he thought it was going to benefit the town, even if he was wrong, then defending his plan seems fine. And not claiming? That, as he has said, is just chamber being chamber.
The best attack I can see is that his wanting a mass house claim is something he knew would benefit himself, as scum, rather than the town. But I can just as easily see a mass house claim as helping the town as I can it helping the scum.
I heart 40 post pages.
Anyway, I would say that writing off his attack on DYH as an "early game play" gives him too much credit. For starters, it seems like he seriously believes DYH is scum, so saying he's not acting scummy because "it's only post 80, dude" doesn't make much sense. Obviously people make random votes, but after one has posted as much as Chamber, you have to assume he's actions are intentional.
And if the mass house claim benefits the scum as much as the town, then why would we do it? The last thing we want is to give the scum more information, especially if, as I'm starting to suspect, SorryGuy's made this game more complex than it lets on.
1) If you were paying attention, you'd notice you haven't responded to my attacks on your Cunning Plan, dating back to post 59.
2) Obviously, nothing is ever "guaranteed", but what I meant was your action doesn't benefit the town. How would it, other than triggering your Cunning Plan, which also isn't beneficial?
3) Obviously. Here's what you said.
If I'm reading this right, your justification for attacking DYH is that he made a "bad post" and that "I still support the claim" before lynching him. But the problem is, the claim is your idea in the first place, so you're saying "let's do what I want to do before we do something else I want to do", which definitely doesn't me. Besides, that doesn't deal with part a.
4) That wasn't the question. In any event, you're the only person whom I would say has harmed the town.
5) Touche, but it certainly doesn't make me trust you any more.
1) The only attack on my cunning plan that I see is that your post doesn't use townie or mafia, that doesn't mean mine doesn't. I apperently made a false assumption that others would have similar words in there pms.
2) The house claim is seperate from my cunning plan. It still locks people into there houses now, which limtis there future claims. I hardly see how this is a bad thing.
3) Your point was that I attacked dyh to distract from the house claim, weather or not you like either of the ideas the fact that I still support both shows that it wasnt a distraction.
4) How exactly have I harmed the town, please go into detail on this one cause im not seeing it, other then possibly outing the doc. (which I don't think many other people have cought on to).
5) Burden of proof is on you though, if me not claiming is something I do as both town and scum then thats enough to destroy the point.
1) The only attack on my cunning plan that I see is that your post doesn't use townie or mafia, that doesn't mean mine doesn't. I apperently made a false assumption that others would have similar words in there pms.
2) The house claim is seperate from my cunning plan. It still locks people into there houses now, which limtis there future claims. I hardly see how this is a bad thing.
3) Your point was that I attacked dyh to distract from the house claim, weather or not you like either of the ideas the fact that I still support both shows that it wasnt a distraction.
4) How exactly have I harmed the town, please go into detail on this one cause im not seeing it, other then possibly outing the doc. (which I don't think many other people have cought on to).
5) Burden of proof is on you though, if me not claiming is something I do as both town and scum then thats enough to destroy the point.
1) Okay, so who do you think is town and who is mafia?
2) But your Cunning Plan (namely, tripping up neutrals and SKs with the houses conundrum) is pretty much dependent on houses. They're very related, if not absolutely codependant.
3) This question wasn't on averting blame. I think you did do it, but I haven't addressed question 3 as such (question 3 was "Why did you attack DYH for not doing something scummy?"). As far as I can see it, the only reason you are after DYH was because he made that post at all.
4) Well, that's new. These attacks are all about how you're harming the town.
5) Once again, I'm not talking about burdens of proof; I'm saying you're not convincing me to the contrary that you're scum. I didn't say it made you look worse.
1) Okay, so who do you think is town and who is mafia?
2) But your Cunning Plan (namely, tripping up neutrals and SKs with the houses conundrum) is pretty much dependent on houses. They're very related, if not absolutely codependant.
3) This question wasn't on averting blame. I think you did do it, but I haven't addressed question 3 as such (question 3 was "Why did you attack DYH for not doing something scummy?"). As far as I can see it, the only reason you are after DYH was because he made that post at all.
4) Well, that's new. These attacks are all about how you're harming the town.
5) Once again, I'm not talking about burdens of proof; I'm saying you're not convincing me to the contrary that you're scum. I didn't say it made you look worse.
1) in this I assume you a refering to which hosue is which not individual people, in which case if we can trust zds info neither one house is mafia or town. If hes lying and only one house is town then it is my house the capulets(yes this is the first time claiming this)
2) It was dependent on making neutrals/sks think all the scum were on house, it didnt require a house claim.
3)I found the way he attacked ged to be scummy, just because you don't doesnt mean it wasn't.
4) So this isn't a real point, it jsut makes your case seam stronger?
Personally, I still love the idea of a House claim, as it doesn't at all give away any useful info to teh scums, and once they claim a house they are locked into said house for if they have to role claim.
1) in this I assume you a refering to which hosue is which not individual people, in which case if we can trust zds info neither one house is mafia or town. If hes lying and only one house is town then it is my house the capulets(yes this is the first time claiming this)
2) It was dependent on making neutrals/sks think all the scum were on house, it didnt require a house claim.
3)I found the way he attacked ged to be scummy, just because you don't doesnt mean it wasn't.
4) So this isn't a real point, it jsut makes your case seam stronger?
5) same with this one then?
1) Okay. But if he's telling the truth, then who's the mafia and who's the town? If he's lying, why the capulets? Considering the Shakespeare theme, I would think both houses seem equally scummy. Look at this:
Quote from Romeo and Juliet wiki »
The action starts with a street-battle between the two families, started by their servants and put down by the Prince of Verona, Escalus. The Prince declares that the heads of the two families (known simply as "Montague" and "Capulet") will be held personally accountable (with their lives) for any further breach of the peace, and disperses the crowd.
I think both the Montagues and Capulets are mafias pitted against each other, with a Veronan town. Look at the fact that SorryGuy's vote counts are presented by the Prince of Verona himself. So I'm thinking you are now definitely scum.
If I'm correct about how the game is set up, I believe you just confessed to being a Capulet (and scum) with this:
Quote from chamber »
it is my house the capulets(yes this is the first time claiming this)
Which brings up a new question: who thinks Romeo and/or Juliet are in this game, both being townies separate from the mafias?
2) Fair enough, but without an understanding of who was from which house, they wouldn't act. Thus, the house claim still mattered.
3) Considering the reactions of LFR and InfinityCubed, it looks like I'm not alone in that respect.
4) Sort of; some of these points fall under this one, but I think you've generally acted in a way unbecoming of a townie.
5) It may be your nature to not claim, but I'm saying it still makes you look bad.
Confirm confirm Vote for the Capulet Scum, Chamber.
1) Okay. But if he's telling the truth, then who's the mafia and who's the town? If he's lying, why the capulets? Considering the Shakespeare theme, I would think both houses seem equally scummy. Look at this:
I think both the Montagues and Capulets are mafias pitted against each other, with a Veronan town. Look at the fact that SorryGuy's vote counts are presented by the Prince of Verona himself. So I'm thinking you are now definitely scum.
If I'm correct about how the game is set up, I believe you just confessed to being a Capulet (and scum) with this:
Which brings up a new question: who thinks Romeo and/or Juliet are in this game, both being townies separate from the mafias?
2) Fair enough, but without an understanding of who was from which house, they wouldn't act. Thus, the house claim still mattered.
3) Considering the reactions of LFR and InfinityCubed, it looks like I'm not alone in that respect.
4) Sort of; some of these points fall under this one, but I think you've generally acted in a way unbecoming of a townie.
5) It may be your nature to not claim, but I'm saying it still makes you look bad.
Confirm confirm Vote for the Capulet Scum, Chamber.
So now I'm 100% scum based on your speculation of the setup, yeah suuuure. And my attack on dyh was apperently bad.
So now I'm 100% scum based on your speculation of the setup, yeah suuuure. And my attack on dyh was apperently bad.
Think about it: SorryGuy hasn't said what the town win condition is, he's evasive as to the nature of the game... methinks the game's a sham.
Here's more corroborating evidence, courtesy of the wiki:
Quote from Montagues from wiki »
The feud started over something so small that it was forgotten what had started it.
(namely, the blood feud between the two houses)
I think it's perfectly plausible that the game would have a town that represents the people of Verona, with (maybe) an SK, and two feuding mafias, the Capulets and Montagues. Consider the nature of the play - both the Montagues and Capulets consider the other an enemy, as well as all those who favor the other. The play also favors neither side in particular, which would suggest that neither of them would be a town (in any event, there aren't enough characters for either side to sustain a full town, even in a mini).
I'm thinking the town may include Romeo, Juliet, Mercutio, Paris, the Friars, the Apothecary, Benvolio, et cetera, et cetera, with two mafias, probably consisting of Lord Capulet and Tybalt against Lord Montague and maybe Abraham? Just a guess, but I'm thinking it's a close one.
Also, I'd like to draw attention to chamber's (purportedly false) claim, the Nurse. There's a nurse in Romeo and Juliet, although she's not a doctor-esque role (more of a guardian for Juliet). It could be chamber's telling the truth and acting like he lied to cloud the circumstances.
All of this is purely speculation, but I think it does matter, especially considering chamber claimed Capulet.
Considering that Romeo and Juliet don't actually participate much in their families' blood fued, I doubt she'd be included with the capulets.
LFR: Okay. How?
She is a capulet nonee the less. Did I say I was listed as a capulet in my pm? Or that my character was part of the blood fued? All I said was that I was a member of the capulet house, just as juliet is who you have listed as town.
She is a capulet nonee the less. Did I say I was listed as a capulet in my pm? Or that my character was part of the blood fued? All I said was that I was a member of the capulet house, just as juliet is who you have listed as town.
Well, if LFR is indeed right, that doesn't make you look any better.
Besides, that sounds aversive.
Look I have no problem claiming my character name. I am indeed juliets nurse, my earlier claim was me being crafty. I still have no intention of claiming abilities. Even if both the capulets and montague are scum, my character was always more alligned with juliet then with the rest of the house.
Look I have no problem claiming my character name. I am indeed juliets nurse, my earlier claim was me being crafty. I still have no intention of claiming abilities. Even if both the capulets and montague are scum, my character was always more alligned with juliet then with the rest of the house.
There may be scums in House Capulet, but I am 100% sure that it is not a scum group. By tomorrow, I am almost positive that I will be 110% sure, the ten percent with role-based information to back it up.
There may be scums in House Capulet, but I am 100% sure that it is not a scum group. By tomorrow, I am almost positive that I will be 110% sure, the ten percent with role-based information to back it up.
But I refuse to disclose anymore.
Chamber, I thought you never claimed?
Know anything about the Montagues to help with supporting that thought?
Chamber claimed post 70 that he was "a nurse", which we took to mean "backup doc", rather than "the nurse", which he just claimed.
EBWODP:
Wow, not previewing ftl... just missed 4 posts... including the claim.
Still happy with a mislynch provided its on chamber but unvote anyway pending counterclaim.
Xyre are you seriously suggesting 2 separate scum groups in a mini??? There is no feasable way that that could possibly be balanced.
That and at least half your "town" list belonged to a house anyway, you do realize that?
That aside I'm still happy with my vote on chamber.
Not really: two members each in two mafias is balanced. The usual mini is 8/9 town, 3 mafia, 0/1 SK (see L5R), but because the mafias are opposed, they can each have 2 members because there's the chance one will use an NK on a member of another. Just look at Fayul's RotTK mafia, in which he had more than the standard number of mafia because they were in two different groups.
And I'm differentiating between "town who is member of a group" and "supporting the group's cause".
EBWODP:
Wow, not previewing ftl... just missed 4 posts... including the claim.
Still happy with a mislynch provided its on chamber but unvote anyway pending counterclaim.
Scum say what? You apparently missed what Cyan said earlier- this is a mini, we can't afford to mislynch just because it's "Chamber". He hasn't claimed his ability, but you're still okay with a mislynch. What if he's the doc? Or the cop? Still okay then?
/Official "White and Nerdy" Poster Boy of The Called\
Good Movie Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
Mortal Kombat Mafia - Mafia - Lynched - Loss
Star Wars Mafia II - Townie - Exploded - Loss
Newbie Mafia 11 - Townie - Survived - Loss
Don't Fear the Reaper Mafia - Solo Mafia after day 1 - Survived - Win
Unluckyville Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
View Askew Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
@kops: I wasn't trying to mislead the town, my statement was misleading, but it should only have tricked neutrals/sks if anyone.
@infinitycubed & zds why do you both keep conveniently forgetting I was also targeting sks, which are def scum imo.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
What the...? You're trying to engage a Cunning Plan?
First of all, I was mostly confused because, while my win condition is townish in nature, I wasn't sure because SorryGuy doesn't use the word "town" or "mafia" anywhere in his PM, so I was worried that I had it confused. Thanks for secretly trying to get me wagoned as a neutral/SK.
But even the absurdity of that post doesn't compare with...
This post makes me :banghead:.
For reference, the "sneaky post".
There's nothing sneaky about this, and indeed, there's nothing wrong about it whatsoever. I'm thinking a Vote: Chamber is in order.
NOBODY ELSE VOTE FOR CHAMBER.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
@kops (cause I frogot in the last post) One example of where a soft claim damaged the town doesn't undo all the games where it has helped the town.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Yes, and what didn't you like about it?
I don't see anything inherently scummy. Maybe overreacting to something that isn't significant, but not necessarily scummy.
Please elaborate.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Okay, was that too hard?
Why didn't you go after DYH's point against Ged? It would seem to be the logical way of suspecting someone. And this kind of argument certainly doesn't deserve a vote.
I dont like getting in arguements when I can avoid it but if you insist: Ged always defends other people as town and as scum, its part of his playstlye.
Oh and on page 4 thats totaly enough for a wagon.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Actually, it's five, I think. kops, ZDS, LookingforReality, InfinityCubed, Xyre.
That's irrational; your use of "only" implies that it would have been less scummy if he had voted for him, but you say yourself he's trying to start a wagon... wouldn't it be more effective in the long term to vote? There were already enough votes on Ged that it wouldn't look like starting a wagon but rather voicing an opinion.
As is your awful play.
Chamber, I want you to claim, because honestly, you aren't benefiting your case in any other way.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
5 chamber - kops723, ZeDorkSlipeur, LookingforReality, InfinityCubed, Xyre
1 Cyan - LJustus
1 Disrupt_Your_Hymn - chamber
1 ZeDorkSlipeur - Disrupt_Your_Hymn
We can end the argument if necessary. I want more to comment. But for now, what is the likely hood that dyh was mafia knowing that ged was using that playstyle? It's very likely that he didn't know, or maybe, forgot. Perhaps that's why he didn't vote.
Chamber, I don't like how you are answering, but I want more to step in and comment before you do anything like claiming.
Ah yes, I forgot kops voted a while back.
If he voted he would have left a more visible trail that he was on the wagon. Plus he would have been the first serious vote, which is what I define as starting it.
My play is fine.
Claim? At 5 votes? On day 1? Truthfuly? assuming the answer to the last one is no I got no problem claiming...
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Well, honestly I could just wait for six votes, but your actions are abnormally scummy, so I wanted the claim. If you're comfortable with it, then do it, but I don't exactly understand what you're saying.
Also, while Ged seems scummy in certain respects (such as proposing a house claim, which I don't think benefits the town), I don't think he's scummy at the moment. I would prefer to address Chamber before Ged.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
First of all, a nurse in a mini seems unlikely, but I will not consider this anyway as that goes into outguessing the mod.
Secondly, a nurse may as well be a vanilla townie, except its a far scummier claim IMO. There is basically no way to confirm you, but you can still pass off as a "beneficial" role.
Thirdly, we have absolutely no reason to believe you based on your last couple posts.
Lastly, I think you're scum anyway.
vote stands
Vote definitely stands.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
13: Confirms.
17: Random votes, makes an inane comment about his random vote.
19: Responds to kops' not-very-random vote.
21: Notes that he confused kops with arimnaes.
24: Makes a comment that's indirectly related to Cyan's in 23. Wonders why nobody's voting for Ged.
27: Speculates on game flavor.
30: Proposes a house claim.
33: Asserts that I have to be neutral/SK because I'm confused by the game's flavor.
41: Protects his suggestion for a house claim. Then asserts that he was actually trying to engage a cunning plan to trip up scum.
43: Tries to protect his Cunning Plan.
47: Tries to protect his Cunning Plan.
49: Responds to ZDS' assertion, tries to protect his Cunning Plan.
51: Tries to protect his Cunning Plan, wonders why ZDS doesn't get his Cunning Plan.
54: Votes for DYH unexpectedly, citing his "sneakiness".
58: Notes his suspicions of DYH, tries to protect his Cunning Plan.
60: Points out that I said that he shouldn't have anymore pressure put on him despite the lack of votes, but gets the numbers wrong. Tries to protect his Cunning Plan.
62: Protects his vote... I think.
64: Asserts that Ged isn't scummy, asserts that it's late enough for a wagon. Doesn't really prove much.
68: Responds to my points. Does a poor job responding to my point (basically just restates his argument). Says he'll claim, but in a muddled way.
70: Claims nurse.
Now, I'm still troubled by how much effort he puts into protecting his Cunning Plan, which really seems like a scummy play. I think Chamber's lying through his teeth, averting blame onto DYH to cover himself, and arguing about minor issues to disguise the absurdity of his Cunning Plan.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
in which he says he's lying.
Now, would you like to really claim, or would you like to perpetuate the myth that you're acting in the town's best interests for a while longer?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
The nurse claim is not his real claim.
I'd like to point out that I did not, in fact, propose the idea of a mass house claim but did support the idea of one.
Oh and finally:
I do this far more than is good for me, I know that I do it, and yet I still can't get myself to stop. :/
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
@ged stop agreeing with me, they'll figure out we are scum buddies.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
No, my attacks on you are as follows.
1) Your Cunning Plan was idiotic.
2) House claiming is not guaranteed to benefit the town.
3) You a) did put too much of an emphasis on DYH, who didn't do anything scummy, and b) just now, addressed my point a), which I'd already made, in a particularly roundabout way.
4) You haven't seriously benefited the town; you say you're town, but your behavior is fairly awful.
5) I ask you for a claim and you treat me with something between contempt and scorn.
On a scale from 1 to Chamber, I think you're either terrible townie or scum. I'm thinking the latter.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
1) No it wasn't, see my defence of it.
2) Nothing we do is guaranteed to help the town.
3) I dont feel it was roundabout.
4) who has seriously benefitted the town so far?
5) since when have you know me to claim.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
1) If you were paying attention, you'd notice you haven't responded to my attacks on your Cunning Plan, dating back to post 59.
2) Obviously, nothing is ever "guaranteed", but what I meant was your action doesn't benefit the town. How would it, other than triggering your Cunning Plan, which also isn't beneficial?
3) Obviously. Here's what you said.
If I'm reading this right, your justification for attacking DYH is that he made a "bad post" and that "I still support the claim" before lynching him. But the problem is, the claim is your idea in the first place, so you're saying "let's do what I want to do before we do something else I want to do", which definitely doesn't me. Besides, that doesn't deal with part a.
4) That wasn't the question. In any event, you're the only person whom I would say has harmed the town.
5) Touche, but it certainly doesn't make me trust you any more.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
The best attack I can see is that his wanting a mass house claim is something he knew would benefit himself, as scum, rather than the town. But I can just as easily see a mass house claim as helping the town as I can it helping the scum.
And finally,
SSSSSSSHHH. Stop giving us away.
I heart 40 post pages.
Anyway, I would say that writing off his attack on DYH as an "early game play" gives him too much credit. For starters, it seems like he seriously believes DYH is scum, so saying he's not acting scummy because "it's only post 80, dude" doesn't make much sense. Obviously people make random votes, but after one has posted as much as Chamber, you have to assume he's actions are intentional.
And if the mass house claim benefits the scum as much as the town, then why would we do it? The last thing we want is to give the scum more information, especially if, as I'm starting to suspect, SorryGuy's made this game more complex than it lets on.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
1) The only attack on my cunning plan that I see is that your post doesn't use townie or mafia, that doesn't mean mine doesn't. I apperently made a false assumption that others would have similar words in there pms.
2) The house claim is seperate from my cunning plan. It still locks people into there houses now, which limtis there future claims. I hardly see how this is a bad thing.
3) Your point was that I attacked dyh to distract from the house claim, weather or not you like either of the ideas the fact that I still support both shows that it wasnt a distraction.
4) How exactly have I harmed the town, please go into detail on this one cause im not seeing it, other then possibly outing the doc. (which I don't think many other people have cought on to).
5) Burden of proof is on you though, if me not claiming is something I do as both town and scum then thats enough to destroy the point.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
1) Okay, so who do you think is town and who is mafia?
2) But your Cunning Plan (namely, tripping up neutrals and SKs with the houses conundrum) is pretty much dependent on houses. They're very related, if not absolutely codependant.
3) This question wasn't on averting blame. I think you did do it, but I haven't addressed question 3 as such (question 3 was "Why did you attack DYH for not doing something scummy?"). As far as I can see it, the only reason you are after DYH was because he made that post at all.
4) Well, that's new. These attacks are all about how you're harming the town.
5) Once again, I'm not talking about burdens of proof; I'm saying you're not convincing me to the contrary that you're scum. I didn't say it made you look worse.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
1) in this I assume you a refering to which hosue is which not individual people, in which case if we can trust zds info neither one house is mafia or town. If hes lying and only one house is town then it is my house the capulets(yes this is the first time claiming this)
2) It was dependent on making neutrals/sks think all the scum were on house, it didnt require a house claim.
3)I found the way he attacked ged to be scummy, just because you don't doesnt mean it wasn't.
4) So this isn't a real point, it jsut makes your case seam stronger?
5) same with this one then?
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
1) Okay. But if he's telling the truth, then who's the mafia and who's the town? If he's lying, why the capulets? Considering the Shakespeare theme, I would think both houses seem equally scummy. Look at this:
I think both the Montagues and Capulets are mafias pitted against each other, with a Veronan town. Look at the fact that SorryGuy's vote counts are presented by the Prince of Verona himself. So I'm thinking you are now definitely scum.
If I'm correct about how the game is set up, I believe you just confessed to being a Capulet (and scum) with this:
Which brings up a new question: who thinks Romeo and/or Juliet are in this game, both being townies separate from the mafias?
2) Fair enough, but without an understanding of who was from which house, they wouldn't act. Thus, the house claim still mattered.
3) Considering the reactions of LFR and InfinityCubed, it looks like I'm not alone in that respect.
4) Sort of; some of these points fall under this one, but I think you've generally acted in a way unbecoming of a townie.
5) It may be your nature to not claim, but I'm saying it still makes you look bad.
Confirm confirm Vote for the Capulet Scum, Chamber.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
So now I'm 100% scum based on your speculation of the setup, yeah suuuure. And my attack on dyh was apperently bad.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Think about it: SorryGuy hasn't said what the town win condition is, he's evasive as to the nature of the game... methinks the game's a sham.
Here's more corroborating evidence, courtesy of the wiki:
(namely, the blood feud between the two houses)
I think it's perfectly plausible that the game would have a town that represents the people of Verona, with (maybe) an SK, and two feuding mafias, the Capulets and Montagues. Consider the nature of the play - both the Montagues and Capulets consider the other an enemy, as well as all those who favor the other. The play also favors neither side in particular, which would suggest that neither of them would be a town (in any event, there aren't enough characters for either side to sustain a full town, even in a mini).
I'm thinking the town may include Romeo, Juliet, Mercutio, Paris, the Friars, the Apothecary, Benvolio, et cetera, et cetera, with two mafias, probably consisting of Lord Capulet and Tybalt against Lord Montague and maybe Abraham? Just a guess, but I'm thinking it's a close one.
Also, I'd like to draw attention to chamber's (purportedly false) claim, the Nurse. There's a nurse in Romeo and Juliet, although she's not a doctor-esque role (more of a guardian for Juliet). It could be chamber's telling the truth and acting like he lied to cloud the circumstances.
All of this is purely speculation, but I think it does matter, especially considering chamber claimed Capulet.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I am 100% sure of this.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Considering that Romeo and Juliet don't actually participate much in their families' blood fued, I doubt she'd be included with the capulets.
LFR: Okay. How?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
She is a capulet nonee the less. Did I say I was listed as a capulet in my pm? Or that my character was part of the blood fued? All I said was that I was a member of the capulet house, just as juliet is who you have listed as town.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Well, if LFR is indeed right, that doesn't make you look any better.
Besides, that sounds aversive.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Hmm. Fine, I can buy that. Unvote for now.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
There may be scums in House Capulet, but I am 100% sure that it is not a scum group. By tomorrow, I am almost positive that I will be 110% sure, the ten percent with role-based information to back it up.
But I refuse to disclose anymore.
Chamber, I thought you never claimed?
That and at least half your "town" list belonged to a house anyway, you do realize that?
That aside I'm still happy with my vote on chamber.
Know anything about the Montagues to help with supporting that thought?
Chamber claimed post 70 that he was "a nurse", which we took to mean "backup doc", rather than "the nurse", which he just claimed.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Wow, not previewing ftl... just missed 4 posts... including the claim.
Still happy with a mislynch provided its on chamber but unvote anyway pending counterclaim.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Not really: two members each in two mafias is balanced. The usual mini is 8/9 town, 3 mafia, 0/1 SK (see L5R), but because the mafias are opposed, they can each have 2 members because there's the chance one will use an NK on a member of another. Just look at Fayul's RotTK mafia, in which he had more than the standard number of mafia because they were in two different groups.
And I'm differentiating between "town who is member of a group" and "supporting the group's cause".
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I don't, but I will.
I agree with kops. Having one group be scum is just way too unbalanced, especially considering in the play both Houses are almost identical.
Scum say what? You apparently missed what Cyan said earlier- this is a mini, we can't afford to mislynch just because it's "Chamber". He hasn't claimed his ability, but you're still okay with a mislynch. What if he's the doc? Or the cop? Still okay then?
Unvote
Vote: Kops723
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29