Let's not rush things here. So Chamber didn't know something was stolen. Now we need to get rid of Cyan. But do we have to lynch him? I doubt the mafia is any fonder of the idea of the game ending suddenly than the town is. Also, there is probably another killing role somewhere. If this is the SK, without kill, the lack thereof may balance a townie killing role. If we leave cyan around long enough, someone has to take care of him. It doesn't have to be us.
Chamber did confirm my other ability, because he admitted that the bottle of pills that I found are related to his character. Unless I have some random knowledge of chamber's character and used to that to prove an ability that no one wants to believe is on a townie anyway. Yeah..what a plan that is.
You're missing Azrael's point here. The problem is that we can't validate each night whether or not you're stealing anything. If we don't know whether or not you're stealing, we don't know if you're getting one step closer to your alternate win condition.
CC: You said that his double-vote-ability was confirmable.
No. I said it was confirmed-ish. That is, we know we can vote Cyan for president, because it showed up on the vote count. Note that in my analysis, I refered to the fact that we can vote him for president, but I said nothing of the double vote, as it is not confirmed. Not that I see any reason to doubt him on that part as he'd be in pretty deep if we did what he wanted us to do and he didn't deliver as promised.
Quote from Cyan »
...so long as you know that you are lynching me for telling the truth.
Cyan, I hope you can see the problem with statements like these. If you're telling the truth, then we'll know after we lynch you, and only then. Despite your comments that such an ability could never be on scum, it could. I know I wouldn't have any problems giving that to a scum in one of my games, and I wouldn't be suprised if AS felt the same.
You're missing Azrael's point here. The problem is that we can't validate each night whether or not you're stealing anything. If we don't know whether or not you're stealing, we don't know if you're getting one step closer to your alternate win condition.
I'm not missing this point. I addressed in the next paragraph, when I said that I know that my ability doesn't hurt the town, and I know that my alternate win condition won't hurt the town, nor end the game. It doesn't matter that no one else does, I know them for a fact, and I will keep using my ability if I don't get lynched. I haven't lied about anything else that I've said today, and I see no reason to lie about this, either.
@CropCircles:
I know. I also know that I don't run 'gambits', and I almost never use WIFOM, as should anyone that has played a game with me or read any of the games that I've participated in, and I'm not doing these things now. If people can't read my last post and see that it's truthful, then so be it. There's no way for me to force people to realize that I'm being honest, and I wouldn't want to if there was, because it should be fairly obvious. There's no rheotoric in my posts in these games, no wheedling or manipulation, simply alot of truthful statements. No one is accusing me of actually doing anything scummy, people are just unwilling to realize the fact that I'm town.
I'm not missing this point. I addressed in the next paragraph, when I said that I know that my ability doesn't hurt the town, and I know that my alternate win condition won't hurt the town, nor end the game. It doesn't matter that no one else does, I know them for a fact, and I will keep using my ability if I don't get lynched. I haven't lied about anything else that I've said today, and I see no reason to lie about this, either.
[joke]I wish Swinkee was here.[/joke]
And of course, you understand, that we can't just necessarily take you at word for that, right? The problem is that we can't verify one way or another if you're actually stealing things at night. Bottom line. Ergo, we have no idea whether or not you're accelerating your alternative win condition, which according to you won't end the game, but tell me, what sense does that make? That's really the piece of your claim I'm having the most trouble with, honestly.
I am not an SK. I do not steal abilities from people. I take random items from them, items that apparently tell about their character to some extent, and from those items I make things that grant various abilities to me, and would eventually, maybe, make something that allows me to fulfill my alternate win condition. A win condition which AS specifically told me would not end the game, regardless of the fact that I would TAKE OVER THE WORLD. Who knows what he has in mind, maybe I take over the world for 5 seconds and then the plan fails, I have no idea. That's how it always happened in the cartoon. I know that he made it clear that I'm town, and that's that.
I will say this, and if I get damned for it, then I get damned for being honest. I know that my character is pro-town, and that my ability now does not hurt anyone, and that my alternate win will also not hurt anyone. I assume that the abilities that I gain will not hurt anyone either, but, I'll have to deal with that bridge when I get to it(if I were to gain a 1-Shot kill or whatever, I would simply tell everyone and let other people decide how I should use it, I honestly don't like being solely responsible for a killing decision). I already have a somewhat investigative ability, since the items do seem to be related to the person that I get them from. I know all of these things for fact, and I will tell you now that I will not stop playing my character just because you all don't believe me. If you want to lynch me for that, fine, so long as you know that you are lynching me for telling the truth. The town has an opportunity for me to become a powerful weapon, I only hope that you take advantage of it. Everything that I've said that could be confirmed so far has been(chamber admitting that the pills relate to his character), and the Presidency thing is also easily confirmable.
I want to bring up my win condition line as a way to validate myself, but, I"m not clear if talking about your win condition line is in violation of the rules or not, so, I'll wait for someone to answer that for me.
I don't think that there is anything more than I can say. I've told everyone everything that I know. That's all.
*frown*
I trust you more than most here, but your refusal to cease item-hunting is going to cause problems, and quite likely get you killed. I imagine that if you were fully town, you'd be more inclined to give up that aspect of your character and act as a team player. The fact that you're categorically refusing paints a darker picture.
I am, however, slightly tempted to build a consensus for using the town to direct your investigative ability, and put the scum on the defensive.
But again, there may not always be a guarantee that you will comply.
The main reason I'm not voting against you is that I'd hate to waste the lynch on a neutral or non-killing rogue, and I haven't made up my mind how likely it is that you might be mafia. My first tendency is that you're much more flavorful as a neutral, due to the item-stealing, but the vote mechanic is a town-dominance factor. I suppose that makes sense given your characters ambitions, but it would be a wonderful fit on a mafia.
Well, in a larger game it would be a wonderful fit on a mafia. But on second thought, in a mini, where we're probably facing 3 mafia already, an extra potential vote would be awfully unbalancing in their hands.
So I'll continue to defend you for the moment, strongly, but also reluctantly. I very much dislike the idea of unleashing you upon the town without any restraints.
CP's case troubles me greatly, but for the moment I'll continue to pressure Bluesoul to return and reply.
I think that people are just getting stuck on my win condition because it is to TAKE OVER THE WORLD. But honestly, that's just flavor to fit with the character. People have alternate win conditions all of the time, often ones that involve other townies dying..but it doesn't make them scum. The taking over the world aspect is flavor and nothing else. Well, it's clear to me that it is at least, but I also have the information sitting in front of me where AS says that it won't end the game.
@Az:
Also, as far as me not going along with the town's request that I not use it. Would it really make me look any better if I agreed? I mean, here I am saying that I know with 100% certainty that the town won't be harmed by it, yet, I would agree not to use it? To me, that seems suspicious. I feel like sticking by my guns is the more honest approach...because, in reality, by being able to use my investigative ability and whatever other abilities I acquire, I *am* acting in favor of the town.
I have no problem with being directed as to where to use my ability/abilities..I just want to be able to A)keep playing the game but B)also play my character. Assuming that someone doesn't just roleblock me anyway, blah.
FWIW, I agree that the role makes more sense as a neutral, and AS doesn't do a great job of explaining why I'm town in my role. But my win condition says kill all scum or take over the world, and I think that pretty clearly makes me town. Obviously I don't know anyone else's win conditions, nor do I want to, but it seems to me that, if there were a neutral/neutrals in the game, especially an SK-esque role, it would say 'kill all non-town', not 'kill all scum'.
Agreeing to not steal anything from people would allow us to keep you alive without fear of you being non-town, because you would be unable to do anything other than normal town actions. That is why it makes you look better. However, It seems we will be unable to confirm when you attempt to use you ability, so you may be able to continue stealing stuff and working towards your win condition unnoticed. Which presents a sort of problem as to letting you live if we do not trust you.
Quote from Cyan »
if there were a neutral/neutrals in the game, especially an SK-esque role, it would say 'kill all non-town', not 'kill all scum'.
I've never understood scum to mean anything other than mafia, but, if you say so. I'm town regardless, and definetely not a killing role, so, my point is still applicable even if you're right.
Something else that I thought of. I know that my role is town and appears to have the potential to become quite powerful(I have no idea what abilities nor how many I could end up having, my role PM gives the indication that I can have multiple abilities at once, and even my basic role is somewhat investigative), plus I could have double voting on top of everything else. I think that the mafia in this game probably have powerful roles, to counterbalance what my character could end up being capable of, and the town would be unbalancing the game in the mafia's favor if it kills me.
It is confirmable just like he said. What else, exactly, do you think that it would allow me to do, particularly during the day. It makes my vote count twice, and that is all. It is easily confirmable, and it would take 5 seconds to lynch me if I were lying. I already said that I would prove it by putting a vote onto myself, as long as it wouldn't bring me into danger of being lynched. Honestly, I don't see what more you could ask for here. In my mind, it is more townish that I brought it up early. I'm sorry that not everyone agrees.
Chamber did confirm my other ability, because he admitted that the bottle of pills that I found are related to his character. Unless I have some random knowledge of chamber's character and used to that to prove an ability that no one wants to believe is on a townie anyway. Yeah..what a plan that is.
Yes, I tried to manipulate everyone. By being as open and honest about the Presidency thing as was humanly possible. Did I immediately say what the ability did? No, like I said, I wanted to see how people reacted, to help gather information for the town. But as soon as it was obvious that people were balking at this, I told everyone what the ability was. Also, please explain how having a double vote is inherently scummy. If anything, it's inherently town. I can't even imagine a scum having the ability, let alone it being 'inherently scummy'.
I am not an SK. I do not steal abilities from people. I take random items from them, items that apparently tell about their character to some extent, and from those items I make things that grant various abilities to me, and would eventually, maybe, make something that allows me to fulfill my alternate win condition. A win condition which AS specifically told me would not end the game, regardless of the fact that I would TAKE OVER THE WORLD. Who knows what he has in mind, maybe I take over the world for 5 seconds and then the plan fails, I have no idea. That's how it always happened in the cartoon. I know that he made it clear that I'm town, and that's that.
I will say this, and if I get damned for it, then I get damned for being honest. I know that my character is pro-town, and that my ability now does not hurt anyone, and that my alternate win will also not hurt anyone. I assume that the abilities that I gain will not hurt anyone either, but, I'll have to deal with that bridge when I get to it(if I were to gain a 1-Shot kill or whatever, I would simply tell everyone and let other people decide how I should use it, I honestly don't like being solely responsible for a killing decision). I already have a somewhat investigative ability, since the items do seem to be related to the person that I get them from. I know all of these things for fact, and I will tell you now that I will not stop playing my character just because you all don't believe me. If you want to lynch me for that, fine, so long as you know that you are lynching me for telling the truth. The town has an opportunity for me to become a powerful weapon, I only hope that you take advantage of it. Everything that I've said that could be confirmed so far has been(chamber admitting that the pills relate to his character), and the Presidency thing is also easily confirmable.
I want to bring up my win condition line as a way to validate myself, but, I"m not clear if talking about your win condition line is in violation of the rules or not, so, I'll wait for someone to answer that for me.
I don't think that there is anything more than I can say. I've told everyone everything that I know. That's all.
A role that requires us to suffer unknown consequences in order to "confirm" your ability is not confirmable. You SAY that you get a second vote, but what if you get a day of unlynchability instead? Or any number of other possibilities that would very much screw the town over. What reason can you give us to actually believe that what you're telling us is actually the case?
chamber did not confirm your ability, merely that you probably know something about his role name. That's a significant difference. It's not the town's fault that you presented that info in a scummy way.
I did not say that having a double vote was scummy. I was talking about the voting for President thing. The ability you claimed to gain any kind of ability ability that way is scummy sounding; the fact that you chose an ability that would normally be more likely on a town member doesn't make it look better because it raises the question of why you didn't just have the ability as a normal townie would.
I don't believe you are the SK either. That was Az's theory. I believe you are a mafioso who is trying to get the town to do something that will screw them over. That said, you COULD be the SK, but if you were, it narrows down the possibilities of what you could be lying about, since I find it hard to believe that the SK would have an extra vote, nor that he would voluntarily put himself at such risk so early.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Well, in a larger game it would be a wonderful fit on a mafia. But on second thought, in a mini, where we're probably facing 3 mafia already, an extra potential vote would be awfully unbalancing in their hands.
A point on that- in the last mini, run by me, I ran two mafia and a SK who only activated on night 3... and got to perform 3 kills that night if he got there. aurorasparrow was that SK. I feel that game was very balanced, too. I just remembered I never got around to posting the full role list for that game, I'll have to do it tonight when I get home.
The reason that Cyan's claimed ability works for a scum is because it only activates if the town lets him have it. There's not much I would feel is too powerful for a scum to have if it's conditional on the town being dumb.
There is no way that I buy "taking over the world" doesn't stop the town winning, either.
I am, however, willing to let Cyan be for today; he might well be non-killing neutral, and he's attracted enough attention to rate a block or investigation or vigging or some such. I don't doubt he can be dealt with more certainty.
I've never understood scum to mean anything other than mafia, but, if you say so. I'm town regardless, and definetely not a killing role, so, my point is still applicable even if you're right.
I can confirm that all mafia are scum, but not all scum are mafia (SKs and the like, you understand)
My, did I catch flak for saying I don't buy that Cyan having a win condition that reeks of world domination will result in the game proceeding as normal? Seems like a no-brainer, to me. However, now that I've had time to hear what will come of his election (a double-vote, as far as i can tell), and hearing chamber's confirmation (two separate abilities? weird), I don't really think he's the play today. Mainly because I don't think Cyan (or mostly anyone here) would run a gambit like that this early into the game.
Unvote
Cyan, I do invite you to steal an item from me tonight, as it may help you and I both out later on in the game; I'm more than a little confused by some of the happenings last night and two heads may work better than one, even if you're a neutral.
There is the whole matter of who to stick a vote on. I will FOS Carrion Pigeons for this:
Quote from carrion pigeons »
chamber did not confirm your ability, merely that you probably know something about his role name. That's a significant difference. It's not the town's fault that you presented that info in a scummy way.
I don't really like the way you're trying to discredit Cyan when he obviously has some way of getting this information. As I've said, I invite Cyan to steal from me tonight so I will withhold judgment until tomorrow. As it stands, though, you're looking like you want to go for the easy lynch.
Vote Matjoeman
Agreeing to not steal anything from people would allow us to keep you alive without fear of you being non-town, because you would be unable to do anything other than normal town actions. That is why it makes you look better. However, It seems we will be unable to confirm when you attempt to use you ability, so you may be able to continue stealing stuff and working towards your win condition unnoticed. Which presents a sort of problem as to letting you live if we do not trust you.
Again, I think this is putting Cyan in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position. I'm more than confident, as RafK pointed out, that Cyan will be the target of more than a few Night Actions tonight. Did I mention that I'd like Cyan to steal from me tonight, anyway? It seems like a Cook-type role, though it may well be something darker than that. Only time will tell, and in my opinion Cyan's bought himself a bit more time.
I don't really like the way you're trying to discredit Cyan when he obviously has some way of getting this information. As I've said, I invite Cyan to steal from me tonight so I will withhold judgment until tomorrow. As it stands, though, you're looking like you want to go for the easy lynch.
Easy lynch it may be, but I invite you to wonder why. What exactly has Cyan done to make you think he's anything but a harmful role, or for that matter, that he's anything but mafia? The case against him is fantastic.
I was willing to grant him some slack as long as as it seemed possible that there was some way he could explain his role in such a way that it wasn't obviously scum. The fact that he never did makes it impossible for me to imagine that he's innocent. I'm not trying to discredit his ability to gather character-based info on other players, but since when is that more town than scum?
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I can confirm that all mafia are scum, but not all scum are mafia (SKs and the like, you understand)
My, did I catch flak for saying I don't buy that Cyan having a win condition that reeks of world domination will result in the game proceeding as normal? Seems like a no-brainer, to me. However, now that I've had time to hear what will come of his election (a double-vote, as far as i can tell), and hearing chamber's confirmation (two separate abilities? weird), I don't really think he's the play today. Mainly because I don't think Cyan (or mostly anyone here) would run a gambit like that this early into the game.
Unvote
No, you're not scummy for believing that. Most people in the thread are cautious about that one. It's scummy for voting on the strength of that alone.
I tried to explain my role in the best way that I could. I didn't try to present it in any particular light to make it look 'non-scummy', that's true. I explained it as completely and honestly as possible. I never thought that a scum would be given double votes, especially in a 12 person game. I never thought that scums had alternate win conditions. No one else agrees with me, but, these are the reasons that I thought that people would realize that I'm town.
@CP:
You can say a million what ifs, they can all be rectified somehow. I think your example is pretty bad, though..why would I want to be voted President today if all I get is a day of unlynchability)? That would be awfully wasted on Day 1. I could gain a million abilities. The most important thing that I could gain right now(most important to me at least), is credibility, because it's just another aspect of my role that would be confirmed, and would hopefully help people realize a little more clearly that I am town.
Also, just coming into the game with Double Votes seems fairly unlikely for anyone to have, IMO it's an extremely powerful ability..the way that AS presented it seems the most fair to me. As for not putting myself on the line this early if I were SK, I can't say how I would handle being an SK, having never played that role. I feel like the same logic applies to the possibility of me being scum, due to the presence of other mafia, also due to the risk factor involved.
@bluesoul: Why did you rant at CP for 1/2 of your post, but, Vote for matjoeman without ever saying why?
aurorasparrow, I apologize for the lack of activity. Life has, once again unexpectedly, demanded that I be a very active participant. I will be able to more regularly post now. If you feel that you need to replace me I understand, but my situation has now returned to normal and I will certainly make every effort to post constructively.
That being said I will need a quick reread to get back up to speed.
Oh sweet irony.
Cyan, it is a good thing the trail has been blazed for you or you most likely would have been lynched already.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
RELAPSED MAFIA JUNKIE
W – 33, L – 19, Broke Games - 9
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
Oh..yeah well, that's true. Not really sure what else I could say to defend myself, I've expressed everything to the best of my ability to do so while remaining completely honest. I mean, I could have been like 'Yeah okay I won't use my ability or try to achieve my alt. win' and gone and done it anyway, since no one would ever know, but, I'm genuinely trying to be 100% honest this game(that's sure working out well, heh), and I feel like it's just best to tell people straightforwardly that I'm going to keep using it, than to lie about it, especially since it can't be confirmed anyway. I felt like the direct/stick to my guns approach was more appropriate, because it's more honest.
The trail has been blazed for me? What do you mean.
I think he's saying you're lucky other people have been defending you.
YES...!
Exactly.
I also see a parallel to a situation that happened in another game.
Since I think that your character has about equal probability of being mafia, town or other and the odds of you attempting this as a non-town strategy are longer then it being a town strategy, that is unless some or all of your defenders are in on it with you, I'm going take you at your word.
I still need to reread to understand more what you have revealed, but cooperating with the town by directing any ability to a predetermined target sounds like an action that should get most to re-evaluate your claims in a much more possitive light.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
RELAPSED MAFIA JUNKIE
W – 33, L – 19, Broke Games - 9
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
I'm willing to let the town determine any targets for my ability(although this puts the mafia one step ahead of the town since they can simply NK that person).
I feel a little uneasy that bluesoul has asked that I target him(I was planning on doing so initially, but, it makes me uneasy that he wants me to), but, if that's what the town wants, that's what I'll do.
I don't mind being guided, especially if it'll help people to re-assess their opinions of me. I don't know why it would, honestly, since the main contention is that my alternate win condition simply must end the game, and letting the town guide my use of whatever abilities I have doesn't really change that any. I"m willing to work with people, I"m just not willing to not use my ability at all, because I know that it's not going to hurt anyone if I do, and when I gain more abilities, that will be more helpful to the town as well, and I know that me winning the game via TAKE OVER THE WORLD really is not going to end the game.
I still need to reread to understand more what you have revealed, but cooperating with the town by directing any ability to a predetermined target sounds like an action that should get most to re-evaluate your claims in a much more possitive light.
Oh, yes, because will actually know if this happens. Oh, wait, we won't.
Quote from Cyan »
I tried to explain my role in the best way that I could. I didn't try to present it in any particular light to make it look 'non-scummy', that's true. I explained it as completely and honestly as possible. I never thought that a scum would be given double votes, especially in a 12 person game. I never thought that scums had alternate win conditions. No one else agrees with me, but, these are the reasons that I thought that people would realize that I'm town.
@CP:
You can say a million what ifs, they can all be rectified somehow. I think your example is pretty bad, though..why would I want to be voted President today if all I get is a day of unlynchability)? That would be awfully wasted on Day 1. I could gain a million abilities. The most important thing that I could gain right now(most important to me at least), is credibility, because it's just another aspect of my role that would be confirmed, and would hopefully help people realize a little more clearly that I am town.
Also, just coming into the game with Double Votes seems fairly unlikely for anyone to have, IMO it's an extremely powerful ability..the way that AS presented it seems the most fair to me. As for not putting myself on the line this early if I were SK, I can't say how I would handle being an SK, having never played that role. I feel like the same logic applies to the possibility of me being scum, due to the presence of other mafia, also due to the risk factor involved.
Whatever seems likely to you, there has been precedent set for not only double votes with no restrictions, but in fact triple and quadruple and quintuple votes with barely any restrictions. Besides that, even in a mini, a double vote on the town's side is not a powerful ability.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
How can it not be? The lynch is the town's most powerful tool(and the only tool for a Vanilla Townie)..how can giving someone double votes not be powerful, especially when it can prevent the mafia from winning in circumstances where they normally would(refering to the question that I asked AS that he responded affirmatively to). To me, an ability that keeps the town alive when normally the mafia would win the game in a situation that happens in every game the mafia wins..seems fairly powerful. I can only take your word for it that people have just been given double votes with no restrictions, but, I haven't ever seen that happen, and I've followed along with every game since Newb 7, as well as read some that were still going on when Newb 7(my first game) started. Unless these games that you're talking about happened on another site, but, I don't see how that is valid here.
Also, how would you not know if I was going along with what Hawkeye said? If the town tells me to use my ability/abilities on a particular person, and I use it on someone else, it's going to be fairly obvious. It seems like you're just being willfully obtuse, and like you're bitter than what you see as an 'easy lynch' isn't going to happen. If you're town, shouldn't you trust in the overall judgment of the town, even if it doesn't coincide with your own?
No, you're not scummy for believing that. Most people in the thread are cautious about that one. It's scummy for voting on the strength of that alone.
Vote Stands.
At a point where Cyan was in no real danger of being run up. Come on, I hope you have something besides that. Why do we always end up sparring when we're in the same game?
@Cyan: I did elaborate on my vote, it was below the quote I credited to him. I'll post it here again, though.
Again, I think this is putting Cyan in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position. I'm more than confident, as RafK pointed out, that Cyan will be the target of more than a few Night Actions tonight. Did I mention that I'd like Cyan to steal from me tonight, anyway? It seems like a Cook-type role, though it may well be something darker than that. Only time will tell, and in my opinion Cyan's bought himself a bit more time.
The post in question, to me, smacks of scumminess. He's arguing that the town as a whole (which, infallibly, include the mafia) should control Cyan's role instead of Cyan doing it. Though CP is creeping up the scumdar, I'll admit.
Also @Cyan: I wasn't trying to throw you off by asking you to steal from me, but if you would, I would really appreciate it as maybe you'll help me figure out what's going on with my role. That is, maybe the mod will tell you what exactly this thing I have is. I've gotta keep this suitably vague until such a time where it may be useful.
Oh sorry, I thought that you were saying that to CP.
As I said, I'm not opposed to targeting you, I was planning on doing so anyway. I just don't like the mafia knowing whom I'm going to use my ability on. I guess we'll see what happens.
As for you voting me, your vote did come immediately after someone unvoted me, and put me 2 votes from lynch, which I think is 'in danger of being run up'. But, it makes more sense now, and I'm willing to Unvote you.
Cyan, I do invite you to steal an item from me tonight, as it may help you and I both out later on in the game; I'm more than a little confused by some of the happenings last night and two heads may work better than one, even if you're a neutral.
Wait, what is this? Are you suggesting masonry or abilities for someone who targets/steals from you? Or something? And you don't care if Cyan's neutral? Anyway I read this, it doesn't look good. FOS. Explain yourself, please.
EWP: Ok, so there was another page. You must be suitably vague. I see. How about being less vague and more suitable, and at least explaining some of what's going on. You have to understand how sinister in sounds when you infer that you're clueless to the purpose of your role.
Oh, yes, because will actually know if this happens. Oh, wait, we won't.
No, actually we will. If he's asked to steal from you, and he says he found dog food (to pull an example from air), and you say that that's wrong, your character has nothing to do with dog food at all, we know he's making it up.
This should be obvious enough, and I wonder about you for not picking up on it.
I don't think he's making that bit up exactly because it's so obviously testable in the manner above. The trick is whether he's lying about what happens when he takes over the world, which is the bit I think he is lying about, but I hardly think he's going to be be able to do that in one day.
Chamber already confirmed that the small canister of pills to cure mental instability that I got from him are relevant to his character anyway. Normally, I'd be interested in why his character needs pills to cure mental instability, but, the fact that he didn't lie about it makes me trust him for now. I don't feel like that aspect of my character should be questionable anymore, honestly, but I'm willing to let the town guide where I use the ability, if it's absolutely necessary(I hope it's not, because it puts even more control of the game into the mafia's hands, but if that's what people really want..then fine). So far there hasn't been an overwhelming demand for this, thankfully.
Wait, what is this? Are you suggesting masonry or abilities for someone who targets/steals from you? Or something? And you don't care if Cyan's neutral? Anyway I read this, it doesn't look good. FOS. Explain yourself, please.
EWP: Ok, so there was another page. You must be suitably vague. I see. How about being less vague and more suitable, and at least explaining some of what's going on. You have to understand how sinister in sounds when you infer that you're clueless to the purpose of your role.
That was not the inference, no. I will try and clear everything up tomorrow, if you will permit this of me; I won't really be able to do it short of a full claim, and I'd like to see if Cyan will be able to reveal anything else about my role. I am not clueless to my role, but only to the ability.
@Cyan: Ack, I did, didn't I? My head must still be stuck in God Mafia. It takes like 14 to lynch there, as opposed to 7 here. I must be more careful with my votes.
EBWODP: I said that two heads are better than one, even if he's neutral. That's fairly different from "I don't care if you're neutral." I think he'll be able to help analyze and just maybe help the town.
How can it not be? The lynch is the town's most powerful tool(and the only tool for a Vanilla Townie)..how can giving someone double votes not be powerful, especially when it can prevent the mafia from winning in circumstances where they normally would(refering to the question that I asked AS that he responded affirmatively to). To me, an ability that keeps the town alive when normally the mafia would win the game in a situation that happens in every game the mafia wins..seems fairly powerful. I can only take your word for it that people have just been given double votes with no restrictions, but, I haven't ever seen that happen, and I've followed along with every game since Newb 7, as well as read some that were still going on when Newb 7(my first game) started. Unless these games that you're talking about happened on another site, but, I don't see how that is valid here.
Also, how would you not know if I was going along with what Hawkeye said? If the town tells me to use my ability/abilities on a particular person, and I use it on someone else, it's going to be fairly obvious. It seems like you're just being willfully obtuse, and like you're bitter than what you see as an 'easy lynch' isn't going to happen. If you're town, shouldn't you trust in the overall judgment of the town, even if it doesn't coincide with your own?
As I said before, just because you can find stuff out about people's roles does not mean that you're telling the truth. The only thing we can confirm is that you have an info ability, which is not inherently town, as I said before. I don't understand why I have to explain this again, considering that I'm repeating almost verbatim my last post on the subject.
No aspect of your role makes much sense from a town perspective. On the other hand, your abilities seem to be just a step from being obviously part of a scum role.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
The post in question, to me, smacks of scumminess. He's arguing that the town as a whole (which, infallibly, include the mafia) should control Cyan's role instead of Cyan doing it.
The town controls people's roles all the time, and how is that any scummier than you wanting Cyan to target yourself?
I'm liking the idea of directing Cyan's ability. Despite comments that it puts the use of the ability into mafia hands, I rather suspect there are more townies here then scum. (we'll call it a hunch ) Thus it's one more tool for the town to use, and for the mafia to take stances on for us to analyze. And if there's any pattern to who is scum, we can possibly lock some of them into claims early.
@CP: I can't understand why you doubt the double-vote so much. I can't think of one scenario where he would get anything else from it and not immediatly be killed for lying. If he gains unlynchability for a day, we send the vig at him or lynch him tommorow. What exactly do you suspect he was trying to achieve?
I don't know. I just know that the town is leaping to conclusions. It's not a matter of what I specifically suspect, but what I know we haven't established conclusively. We can't trust Cyan based on the info we have, and the fact that he seems to insist that he can be cleared based on his own baseless claim is unnerving.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Ok, he's only got two votes so far. Unvote, Vote: Chamber. Let's hear about the pills as well as why you were lurking. Not necessarily a claim, more of an explaination of why they're not scummy.
Lurker hunting is scummy. I have no intention of revealing why the pills fit my chracter. I have been lurking because my internet has been unstable for most of this summer, I post when I have it, such as now. Unvote vote: cp for being scum.
Lurker hunting is not scummy, lurking is scummy. The 'my internet sucks' excuse doesn't wash, IMO, because if it was that bad you would not/should not have signed up in the first place. Aside from that, I've seen you actively defend lurking as a viable strategy in the game of Mafia, so it looks like you're just trying to make an excuse now.
Not revealing why the pills are relevant to your character is dodgy, but, could possibly be explained.
Randomly voting CP for 'being scum' without actually explaining it(even though this is par for the course for you) is very scummy. Unvote, Vote chamber
You're missing Azrael's point here. The problem is that we can't validate each night whether or not you're stealing anything. If we don't know whether or not you're stealing, we don't know if you're getting one step closer to your alternate win condition.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Cyan, I hope you can see the problem with statements like these. If you're telling the truth, then we'll know after we lynch you, and only then. Despite your comments that such an ability could never be on scum, it could. I know I wouldn't have any problems giving that to a scum in one of my games, and I wouldn't be suprised if AS felt the same.
[The Family]
I'm not missing this point. I addressed in the next paragraph, when I said that I know that my ability doesn't hurt the town, and I know that my alternate win condition won't hurt the town, nor end the game. It doesn't matter that no one else does, I know them for a fact, and I will keep using my ability if I don't get lynched. I haven't lied about anything else that I've said today, and I see no reason to lie about this, either.
@CropCircles:
I know. I also know that I don't run 'gambits', and I almost never use WIFOM, as should anyone that has played a game with me or read any of the games that I've participated in, and I'm not doing these things now. If people can't read my last post and see that it's truthful, then so be it. There's no way for me to force people to realize that I'm being honest, and I wouldn't want to if there was, because it should be fairly obvious. There's no rheotoric in my posts in these games, no wheedling or manipulation, simply alot of truthful statements. No one is accusing me of actually doing anything scummy, people are just unwilling to realize the fact that I'm town.
[joke]I wish Swinkee was here.[/joke]
And of course, you understand, that we can't just necessarily take you at word for that, right? The problem is that we can't verify one way or another if you're actually stealing things at night. Bottom line. Ergo, we have no idea whether or not you're accelerating your alternative win condition, which according to you won't end the game, but tell me, what sense does that make? That's really the piece of your claim I'm having the most trouble with, honestly.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
*frown*
I trust you more than most here, but your refusal to cease item-hunting is going to cause problems, and quite likely get you killed. I imagine that if you were fully town, you'd be more inclined to give up that aspect of your character and act as a team player. The fact that you're categorically refusing paints a darker picture.
I am, however, slightly tempted to build a consensus for using the town to direct your investigative ability, and put the scum on the defensive.
But again, there may not always be a guarantee that you will comply.
The main reason I'm not voting against you is that I'd hate to waste the lynch on a neutral or non-killing rogue, and I haven't made up my mind how likely it is that you might be mafia. My first tendency is that you're much more flavorful as a neutral, due to the item-stealing, but the vote mechanic is a town-dominance factor. I suppose that makes sense given your characters ambitions, but it would be a wonderful fit on a mafia.
Well, in a larger game it would be a wonderful fit on a mafia. But on second thought, in a mini, where we're probably facing 3 mafia already, an extra potential vote would be awfully unbalancing in their hands.
So I'll continue to defend you for the moment, strongly, but also reluctantly. I very much dislike the idea of unleashing you upon the town without any restraints.
CP's case troubles me greatly, but for the moment I'll continue to pressure Bluesoul to return and reply.
I think that people are just getting stuck on my win condition because it is to TAKE OVER THE WORLD. But honestly, that's just flavor to fit with the character. People have alternate win conditions all of the time, often ones that involve other townies dying..but it doesn't make them scum. The taking over the world aspect is flavor and nothing else. Well, it's clear to me that it is at least, but I also have the information sitting in front of me where AS says that it won't end the game.
@Az:
Also, as far as me not going along with the town's request that I not use it. Would it really make me look any better if I agreed? I mean, here I am saying that I know with 100% certainty that the town won't be harmed by it, yet, I would agree not to use it? To me, that seems suspicious. I feel like sticking by my guns is the more honest approach...because, in reality, by being able to use my investigative ability and whatever other abilities I acquire, I *am* acting in favor of the town.
I have no problem with being directed as to where to use my ability/abilities..I just want to be able to A)keep playing the game but B)also play my character. Assuming that someone doesn't just roleblock me anyway, blah.
FWIW, I agree that the role makes more sense as a neutral, and AS doesn't do a great job of explaining why I'm town in my role. But my win condition says kill all scum or take over the world, and I think that pretty clearly makes me town. Obviously I don't know anyone else's win conditions, nor do I want to, but it seems to me that, if there were a neutral/neutrals in the game, especially an SK-esque role, it would say 'kill all non-town', not 'kill all scum'.
Scum usually means mafia+killing neutrals.
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || sk: LookingforReality (Copycat) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || survivor: matjoeman (Anarchist) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || town: kops (Anarchist) |||
Mafia stats
I've never understood scum to mean anything other than mafia, but, if you say so. I'm town regardless, and definetely not a killing role, so, my point is still applicable even if you're right.
Something else that I thought of. I know that my role is town and appears to have the potential to become quite powerful(I have no idea what abilities nor how many I could end up having, my role PM gives the indication that I can have multiple abilities at once, and even my basic role is somewhat investigative), plus I could have double voting on top of everything else. I think that the mafia in this game probably have powerful roles, to counterbalance what my character could end up being capable of, and the town would be unbalancing the game in the mafia's favor if it kills me.
Anyway, that's just some food for thought.
A role that requires us to suffer unknown consequences in order to "confirm" your ability is not confirmable. You SAY that you get a second vote, but what if you get a day of unlynchability instead? Or any number of other possibilities that would very much screw the town over. What reason can you give us to actually believe that what you're telling us is actually the case?
chamber did not confirm your ability, merely that you probably know something about his role name. That's a significant difference. It's not the town's fault that you presented that info in a scummy way.
I did not say that having a double vote was scummy. I was talking about the voting for President thing. The ability you claimed to gain any kind of ability ability that way is scummy sounding; the fact that you chose an ability that would normally be more likely on a town member doesn't make it look better because it raises the question of why you didn't just have the ability as a normal townie would.
I don't believe you are the SK either. That was Az's theory. I believe you are a mafioso who is trying to get the town to do something that will screw them over. That said, you COULD be the SK, but if you were, it narrows down the possibilities of what you could be lying about, since I find it hard to believe that the SK would have an extra vote, nor that he would voluntarily put himself at such risk so early.
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A point on that- in the last mini, run by me, I ran two mafia and a SK who only activated on night 3... and got to perform 3 kills that night if he got there. aurorasparrow was that SK. I feel that game was very balanced, too. I just remembered I never got around to posting the full role list for that game, I'll have to do it tonight when I get home.
The reason that Cyan's claimed ability works for a scum is because it only activates if the town lets him have it. There's not much I would feel is too powerful for a scum to have if it's conditional on the town being dumb.
There is no way that I buy "taking over the world" doesn't stop the town winning, either.
I am, however, willing to let Cyan be for today; he might well be non-killing neutral, and he's attracted enough attention to rate a block or investigation or vigging or some such. I don't doubt he can be dealt with more certainty.
unvote Cyan, vote matjoeman
I can confirm that all mafia are scum, but not all scum are mafia (SKs and the like, you understand)
My, did I catch flak for saying I don't buy that Cyan having a win condition that reeks of world domination will result in the game proceeding as normal? Seems like a no-brainer, to me. However, now that I've had time to hear what will come of his election (a double-vote, as far as i can tell), and hearing chamber's confirmation (two separate abilities? weird), I don't really think he's the play today. Mainly because I don't think Cyan (or mostly anyone here) would run a gambit like that this early into the game.
Unvote
Cyan, I do invite you to steal an item from me tonight, as it may help you and I both out later on in the game; I'm more than a little confused by some of the happenings last night and two heads may work better than one, even if you're a neutral.
There is the whole matter of who to stick a vote on. I will FOS Carrion Pigeons for this:
I don't really like the way you're trying to discredit Cyan when he obviously has some way of getting this information. As I've said, I invite Cyan to steal from me tonight so I will withhold judgment until tomorrow. As it stands, though, you're looking like you want to go for the easy lynch.
Vote Matjoeman
Again, I think this is putting Cyan in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position. I'm more than confident, as RafK pointed out, that Cyan will be the target of more than a few Night Actions tonight. Did I mention that I'd like Cyan to steal from me tonight, anyway? It seems like a Cook-type role, though it may well be something darker than that. Only time will tell, and in my opinion Cyan's bought himself a bit more time.
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Easy lynch it may be, but I invite you to wonder why. What exactly has Cyan done to make you think he's anything but a harmful role, or for that matter, that he's anything but mafia? The case against him is fantastic.
I was willing to grant him some slack as long as as it seemed possible that there was some way he could explain his role in such a way that it wasn't obviously scum. The fact that he never did makes it impossible for me to imagine that he's innocent. I'm not trying to discredit his ability to gather character-based info on other players, but since when is that more town than scum?
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No, you're not scummy for believing that. Most people in the thread are cautious about that one. It's scummy for voting on the strength of that alone.
Vote Stands.
@CP:
You can say a million what ifs, they can all be rectified somehow. I think your example is pretty bad, though..why would I want to be voted President today if all I get is a day of unlynchability)? That would be awfully wasted on Day 1. I could gain a million abilities. The most important thing that I could gain right now(most important to me at least), is credibility, because it's just another aspect of my role that would be confirmed, and would hopefully help people realize a little more clearly that I am town.
Also, just coming into the game with Double Votes seems fairly unlikely for anyone to have, IMO it's an extremely powerful ability..the way that AS presented it seems the most fair to me. As for not putting myself on the line this early if I were SK, I can't say how I would handle being an SK, having never played that role. I feel like the same logic applies to the possibility of me being scum, due to the presence of other mafia, also due to the risk factor involved.
@bluesoul: Why did you rant at CP for 1/2 of your post, but, Vote for matjoeman without ever saying why?
That being said I will need a quick reread to get back up to speed.
Oh sweet irony.
Cyan, it is a good thing the trail has been blazed for you or you most likely would have been lynched already.
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I think he's saying you're lucky other people have been defending you.
I responded in #94
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || sk: LookingforReality (Copycat) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || survivor: matjoeman (Anarchist) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || town: kops (Anarchist) |||
Mafia stats
YES...!
Exactly.
I also see a parallel to a situation that happened in another game.
Since I think that your character has about equal probability of being mafia, town or other and the odds of you attempting this as a non-town strategy are longer then it being a town strategy, that is unless some or all of your defenders are in on it with you, I'm going take you at your word.
I still need to reread to understand more what you have revealed, but cooperating with the town by directing any ability to a predetermined target sounds like an action that should get most to re-evaluate your claims in a much more possitive light.
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I feel a little uneasy that bluesoul has asked that I target him(I was planning on doing so initially, but, it makes me uneasy that he wants me to), but, if that's what the town wants, that's what I'll do.
I don't mind being guided, especially if it'll help people to re-assess their opinions of me. I don't know why it would, honestly, since the main contention is that my alternate win condition simply must end the game, and letting the town guide my use of whatever abilities I have doesn't really change that any. I"m willing to work with people, I"m just not willing to not use my ability at all, because I know that it's not going to hurt anyone if I do, and when I gain more abilities, that will be more helpful to the town as well, and I know that me winning the game via TAKE OVER THE WORLD really is not going to end the game.
Oh, yes, because will actually know if this happens. Oh, wait, we won't.
Whatever seems likely to you, there has been precedent set for not only double votes with no restrictions, but in fact triple and quadruple and quintuple votes with barely any restrictions. Besides that, even in a mini, a double vote on the town's side is not a powerful ability.
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Also, how would you not know if I was going along with what Hawkeye said? If the town tells me to use my ability/abilities on a particular person, and I use it on someone else, it's going to be fairly obvious. It seems like you're just being willfully obtuse, and like you're bitter than what you see as an 'easy lynch' isn't going to happen. If you're town, shouldn't you trust in the overall judgment of the town, even if it doesn't coincide with your own?
At a point where Cyan was in no real danger of being run up. Come on, I hope you have something besides that. Why do we always end up sparring when we're in the same game?
@Cyan: I did elaborate on my vote, it was below the quote I credited to him. I'll post it here again, though.
The post in question, to me, smacks of scumminess. He's arguing that the town as a whole (which, infallibly, include the mafia) should control Cyan's role instead of Cyan doing it. Though CP is creeping up the scumdar, I'll admit.
Also @Cyan: I wasn't trying to throw you off by asking you to steal from me, but if you would, I would really appreciate it as maybe you'll help me figure out what's going on with my role. That is, maybe the mod will tell you what exactly this thing I have is. I've gotta keep this suitably vague until such a time where it may be useful.
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As I said, I'm not opposed to targeting you, I was planning on doing so anyway. I just don't like the mafia knowing whom I'm going to use my ability on. I guess we'll see what happens.
As for you voting me, your vote did come immediately after someone unvoted me, and put me 2 votes from lynch, which I think is 'in danger of being run up'. But, it makes more sense now, and I'm willing to Unvote you.
EWP: Ok, so there was another page. You must be suitably vague. I see. How about being less vague and more suitable, and at least explaining some of what's going on. You have to understand how sinister in sounds when you infer that you're clueless to the purpose of your role.
No, actually we will. If he's asked to steal from you, and he says he found dog food (to pull an example from air), and you say that that's wrong, your character has nothing to do with dog food at all, we know he's making it up.
This should be obvious enough, and I wonder about you for not picking up on it.
I don't think he's making that bit up exactly because it's so obviously testable in the manner above. The trick is whether he's lying about what happens when he takes over the world, which is the bit I think he is lying about, but I hardly think he's going to be be able to do that in one day.
That was not the inference, no. I will try and clear everything up tomorrow, if you will permit this of me; I won't really be able to do it short of a full claim, and I'd like to see if Cyan will be able to reveal anything else about my role. I am not clueless to my role, but only to the ability.
@Cyan: Ack, I did, didn't I? My head must still be stuck in God Mafia. It takes like 14 to lynch there, as opposed to 7 here. I must be more careful with my votes.
EBWODP: I said that two heads are better than one, even if he's neutral. That's fairly different from "I don't care if you're neutral." I think he'll be able to help analyze and just maybe help the town.
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As I said before, just because you can find stuff out about people's roles does not mean that you're telling the truth. The only thing we can confirm is that you have an info ability, which is not inherently town, as I said before. I don't understand why I have to explain this again, considering that I'm repeating almost verbatim my last post on the subject.
No aspect of your role makes much sense from a town perspective. On the other hand, your abilities seem to be just a step from being obviously part of a scum role.
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Cyan (2): DYH, CP
bluesoul (3): chamber, azrael, cyan
Bertrand (1): matjoeman
matjoeman (2): rafk, bluesoul
DYH (1): CropCircles
crop circles (1): bertrand
Voted Cyan for president (2): Cyan, Cropcircles
7 to lynch.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Battle Royale Mafia
(Come see who won!)
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || sk: LookingforReality (Copycat) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || survivor: matjoeman (Anarchist) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || town: kops (Anarchist) |||
Mafia stats
Battle Royale Mafia
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Semantics. FoS: Bluesoul
Why, exactly, don't you think it's a good idea that the town controls Cyan's targets?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Vote Count:
Cyan (2): DYH, CP
bluesoul (2): chamber, azrael
Bertrand (1): matjoeman
matjoeman (2): rafk, bluesoul
DYH (1): CropCircles
crop circles (1): bertrand
Voted Cyan for president (2): Cyan, Cropcircles
7 to lynch.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
@CP: I can't understand why you doubt the double-vote so much. I can't think of one scenario where he would get anything else from it and not immediatly be killed for lying. If he gains unlynchability for a day, we send the vig at him or lynch him tommorow. What exactly do you suspect he was trying to achieve?
[The Family]
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V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Vote Berchamber.
[b[Unvote[/b] I meant to do that in my last post, anyhow. I'm in agreement with CC, I think we should direct Cyan for now.
To that end, [b]Vote: Chamber[/b] for obviously being unstable.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Lurker hunt, awaaaaayyy!!!
[The Family]
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || sk: LookingforReality (Copycat) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || survivor: matjoeman (Anarchist) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || town: kops (Anarchist) |||
Mafia stats
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Not revealing why the pills are relevant to your character is dodgy, but, could possibly be explained.
Randomly voting CP for 'being scum' without actually explaining it(even though this is par for the course for you) is very scummy.
Unvote, Vote chamber
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29