Interesting; I don't see a need for anyone to have a double-vote at this point, especially since your alignment is completely up in the air.
I could speculate for days on either side of the coin (town/scum) as to why you would have jumped on this plan immediately as opposed to waiting until later, and I find your "Oh I don't do that kind of thing (gambits)..." defense earlier somewhat questionable. However, the whole thing is so wishy-washy that it only warrants an FoS at this point.
Man..this definetely has me questioning my decision to play this particular game with a more open, laid-back style.
I'm honestly surprised that you guys think that a mafioso would ever be given the ability to have their vote count twice, under any circumstances...that seems like it would be horribly unfair, to me.
One of the questions I asked AS about this ability would settle this argument, I think. I PMed AS earlier asking him if I could repeat it here(I'm sure he'll say yes, especially since he never actually answered it, but, I wanted to be sure). I'll let you guys know as soon as he answers. Assuming that people don't think that I'm just making this up. Blah.
Also, Hawkeye hasn't even posted since the game started..request Mod-Prod Hawkeye7.
There's no need to give him his double vote now. When we all agree that he should have it, then we can give it to him. There's no need to decide now, and no reason we should.
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I think you're making it up Cyan, but I'll wait and see what you're making up. Then I'll decide whether to vote for you. Nice deflection at the end of 53 by the way. I'm sure no one noticed.
It wasn't a deflection. I thought that someone might make that obvious assumption, but, I also think it's pretty well known that I can't stand lurkers, especially in a mini, where a person not participating is much more noticed because the player group is smaller. This site had it's first ever dropped game(from what I understand), which was a mini. That might not have happened if the players in the game had been more vigilant about making sure that everyone was participating.
It's even more irritating in this case, when someone hasn't posted anything whatsoever since the game started. I'm also surprised that we haven't heard anything from RafK other than his confirmation post, he's normally highly active.(No, this isn't an attempt at deflection, either).
vote Cyan for calling out a lurker within 50 posts of the game starting, and then calling out a second one who has even posted during the game.
Also, three things:
One- you would not be my choice to have a second vote. If you were absolutely cleared town and we were near end-game, maybe, but that's all.
Two- very WIFOM argument about the power of the role as scum. It would only be powerful if it was automatic. If the town are dumb enough to give a mafia a second vote on trust, they deserve to be screwed.
Three- a mafia who gets powerful if the town is dumb and who's just vanilla if not sounds like a great mafia role, wish I'd thought of it, grats AS.
Why does it matter that it's within 50 posts of the game starting, the game has been going for 4 days. The rules for this game also specifically say 'No Lurking'. I fail to see why calling for a mod-prod, in this circumstance, is inappropriate.
Also, my role is not Vanilla, regardless of whether or not I ever have a second vote.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Well, I can say that voting me for PTA Treasurer won't do anything. It's possible that someone besides me could be voted for President..does it say so in your role PM? It says so in mine..it's kind of in flavor with my character, but honestly, not completely so...it could have just as easily not been there and I never would have thought of it.
AuroraSparrow just got back to me(apparently he actually answered me before and I thought he was talking about something else).
The question that I asked him was: If I am still alive(and have been voted President) along with another townie, and there are 2 mafioso left, would the game continue(since technically we could still lynch one of them), or would they win? He said that the game would continue. I've honestly never seen someone's vote count twice before, so, I didn't know what would happen there.
Coming from the perspective of a designer, it seems probable to me that a role designed to need the support of the town to gain an ability that would normally be strictly pro-town would fit a scum very nicely. On the other hand, it seems a little weak for a town ability.
Additionally, we have no way of knowing the real consequences of voting for you for President. You ask us to risk a lot for no knowable gain. That also reeks of scum.
If it turns out that voting for different things has a general impact on the game, and that you just happen to be the source of knowledge about it, then that makes you seem less suspicious, because it gives us an opportunity to test the ability without having to follow you blindly.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I guess it's possible that cyan just made the results of the election up, but for now I am inclined to believe him that if we vote him for president, he will gain an additional vote. However, I agree that this role could be possible on either a townie or a mafioso, or a neutral for that matter. Therefore I will not vote him for president, probably not for many days.
Obviously I can't tell you why AS did it this way. Becoming President is somewhat in character with my role, but not completely, as I've already said. However, as I've also said, I am not Vanilla, regardless of the Presidency thing.
As for having no way of knowing the real consequences, this has to be the most easily verified ability that there is. If/When you guys vote me for President, I'll vote myself to prove to you that I'm telling the truth(as long as it won't lynch me).
And, since AS has posted an updated Vote Count, it's clear that you can't vote anyone else for President, nor me for any other position. So yes, you have to 'follow me blindly' for this to occur, but, as I said already, it's tremedously easy to verify.
I honestly didn't think that a scum would ever be given this kind of ability, under any circumstances..town voting or not...it seems very powerful even on a townie, and this seems like the fairest way for this kind of ability to enter the game for a townsperson, it doesn't seem like something that a scum should ever have, to me...it would be very unbalancing then, IMO.
If you guys want to wait, fine. If I don't ever reach the necessary number of votes, fine. It doesn't hurt my character, nor affect my ability to play the game. I just thought it was cool, because it was new to me. Obviously I should have waited and brought it up later..that's hindsight for you.
LOL, I had forgotten that my random vote was on Cyan before that vote count.
But, given that he's now gone on a lurker hunt here early day 1, claimed a non-vanilla role (why exactly?), and this whole double-vote thing... I'll just leave it where it is.
I stated being non-vanilla because RafK said that giving the role would work fine on a Vanilla scum and I was trying to provide another example(since apparently no one agrees with me that a scum should never have the ability to double vote in the first place) of why I'm town and not scum.
As for 'being on a lurker hunt', I'd say that's excessive. I didn't FOS anybody or vote anybody. I requested a Mod-Prod on someone that hasn't even confirmed that he realizes that the game has started, and idly commented that I wondered where RafK has been, because he's generally very active. I will always, always be opposed to lurking. When a person lurks, not only are they simply not playing the game, but, they affect everyone else's interaction with the game itself as well. This is especially evident in a game that only has 12 players. I highly doubt that anyone will ever make me see lurking as something acceptable. If anything, I think that most people are simply too used to it and have gotten complacent about it, or don't want to face pressure from the peers for mod-prodding someone. That is simply not the case with me. It seems to me that, if no one ever lurked, every game of mafia would be better. If I can help accomplish that by mod-prodding someone, then I will absolutely do so. I fail to see anything wrong with this.
If you can come up with some reasonable way for either the town to believe that your ability isn't harmful, or that the rest of your role is somehow geared towards making the ability useful, I'll happily unvote. As it is, I just don't believe you.
AS obviously knows that it's hard enough to get the majority of the town to vote on something when they have a pretty good idea of what the results will be. It'd be virtually impossible to get the town to accept that they ought to do something as completely hare-brained as to follow one person no one has any reason to trust blindly in a bid for power. There needs to be some significant kind of counterbalance to this to make it mean something to the game, and that's what makes me mistrust this and you.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
What wasn't good enough, and more cautious about what?
You said you were playing a more laid back style. That doesn't have translate into thinking less or playing recklessly. If you were a townie you'd have considered this result and saved your presedential campaign for a time when you could use it to help the town. Trying to get it early seems like a mafia attempt to create a positive setup they can plan around. It's seems more valuable to a townie as a surprise.
That's all my opinion, and subject to change. I feels strongly enough to vote at the moment however. It's also all based on the intial feeling, mentioned by others, that this is a balancing measure for a powerful mafia role. So I'd like a claim, name and other ability.
I'm also concerned about hinting at a power role without actually claiming one. Saying you're the doc or cop is great and will save you without counter claim if you're about to die, but this is a deterent without back up, and were you town would only give more information to the mafia. In short, it's not a townie play.
As to what wasn't good enough, that's a reference to post 55 where I said I'd wait for you to come up with a response from AS. What you came up with wasn't enough to change my mind. Granted, it was vague reference. In fact, I probably should have said all this in my last post, but I was in a hurry.
It seems as though you're under the impression that AS told me that I had to bring this into play immediately; but he didn't. It was my choice to do so. Honestly, I didn't really know how to approach it, and I acted in haste/vanity
At any rate, I guess I'm at 5 votes, and I've talked about my role enough, so I'll go ahead and claim.
I am The Brain from the WB Show Pinky and The Brain. My role PM says that this situation concerns me(thus I am town), but not enough to completely distract me from my lifelong objective, to TAKE OVER THE WORLD(alternate win condition).
Each night, I PM AS the name of a player. I can then search that players belongs and will acquire an item of some sort. As I collect items, I will gain abilities, and ultimately, will TAKE OVER THE WORLD(how this happens depends on what items I collect, apparently there are a couple of ways that it can occur). The following is what I know for certain about this:
1)I asked if the items that I acquire are indicative of the character of the person that I took them from. AS just said 'perhaps'.
2)As soon as I collect the items that give me a certain ability(I have no idea what they are), I'll be told that I've gained it.
3)I will not know that I've collected the right items for one of my methods to TAKE OVER THE WORLD until I have all of the necessary items to do so.(My best guess here is that some of the items that I'll find are useless and some will help..I doubt that everyone has an item that helps me).
On night 0, I targeted Chamber, and found a small canister of pills to treat mental instability(this was what prompted me to ask if the items that I found are related to the person's character).
I haven't gained any additional abilities as of yet, which makes sense, since I've only gotten one item so far.
My win conditions are kill the scum or TAKE OVER THE WORLD.
AS let me know that, even if I TAKE OVER THE WORLD, the game will still continue as normal.
I'm pretty unhappy to be claiming on Day 1, especially in such rapid fashion. I honestly thought that the town would be happy to have an additional vote on it's side, I didn't realize that people would think that the ability to have 2 votes could be given to a scum, even if the town did have to vote for it. But that really is all there is to it. If the majority of the town agrees to vote me for President, my vote will count twice. I probably should have brought it up later in the game, but, my role has alot going on as it is, and like I said, I genuinely thought that people would be more receptive to it, because it seems impossible for a scum to ever have that ability, IMO.
I was under no impression of the sort. It's your choice that makes you seem like mafia.
As for the claim. Seems mostly on. The pills seem bad for chamber. But the claim does seem twisted. How can you expect me to believe that taking over the world won't end the game? Whether you're really town at the moment is WIFOM. What I'm concerned about from this role is if you aquire a killing role and attempt to balance sides to prolong the game, or if you manage to quickly aquire the items you need. Saying the pills don't help doesn't prove anything.
That said, I'm content to unvote and just hope you disapear during the night sometime.
@Chamber: Would you like to tell us about your condition?
I don't know how me taking over the world doesn't end the game, I simply know that AS flatly told me that the game will still proceed even if I achieve this goal. Also, I have the standard town win condition in addition to my win condition, so, I have no interest in prolonging the game.
If need be, I'd be willing to inform the town as I gain abilities...obviously the mafia are going to kill me the first chance they get, since they don't know what abilities I'll gain anymore than I do or you do, so, telling everyone doesn't seem like it would really hurt in that regard, and at least the town would know.
Also, I don't know whether or not the pills help..like I said, AS said that I won't know that I've achieved my alternate win condition until I collect all of the necessary items to do so. From my perspective, it's completely random with literally no strategy involved. But it seems like alot it should be alot of fun, and I'm pretty excited about it. All of the roles I've played up until this point(even ones that I've replaced into) have been really straightforward. Obviously this isn't..to the point that it overwhelmed me, honestly.
No, it's not, they have nothing to do with each other. The Presidency thing was just randomly part of my role PM in addition to everything else.
Also, I am not neutral, my win condition line flatly says kill all scum or TAKE OVER THE WORLD.
Honestly, I think that this is because the TAKE OVER THE WORLD part is going to be practically impossible. All I can do is randomly guess people and hope that in the end I guessed the right combination of them, AS isn't going to give me any indication along the way as to whether or not I'm actually accomplishing anything. If someone dies that has a part that I need, then, my chances are shot(though AS did indicate that there is more than one way for me to accomplish this, clearly it's not going to be anything simple). It seems completely and utterly luck based, with no strategy on my part whatsoever, which is why I think he decided I should be town with the regular town win condition from the beginning, instead of just having to change me to town if my win condition becomes impossible at some point.
If you can come up with some reasonable way for either the town to believe that your ability isn't harmful, or that the rest of your role is somehow geared towards making the ability useful, I'll happily unvote. As it is, I just don't believe you.
AS obviously knows that it's hard enough to get the majority of the town to vote on something when they have a pretty good idea of what the results will be. It'd be virtually impossible to get the town to accept that they ought to do something as completely hare-brained as to follow one person no one has any reason to trust blindly in a bid for power. There needs to be some significant kind of counterbalance to this to make it mean something to the game, and that's what makes me mistrust this and you.
Quote from Abandon Hope »
Vote: Cyan. That wasn't good enough. I don't believe you. I think a townie would have been more cautious.
Quote from Bluesoul »
Sorry. Not buying it. Unvote, vote Cyan.
Unvote for discussion.
Not sure whether I smell a modified, ability-stealing SK type role, or a lying neutral-town, or a mafia who's feeding us his real win condition as a ruse to pretend he's neutral.
Either way, I don't trust his word much. But that doesn't mean I want him dead either, although it would seem that AH, Bluesoul, and Carrion Pigeons don't share that sentiment. In fact, they seem entirely too eager to eliminate a supposedly neutral player, and their first reaction was to slap on quick votes.
Carrion Pigeons, of all people, ought to know how much damage pursuing neutrals can do to a town, but his vote was qualified as pressuring for additional truth: a reasonable-appearing notion. Also easy cover for scum, but we can't know which it is yet so easily, can we? Bluesoul might be a little more green, but that pitifully terse explanation of his is drawing me like a moth to the flame. And AH: AH might be a scum who smelled prey, realized he didn't want credit for a bad lynch this early, then backed off in hopes that the town would be forced to do his dirty work for him. Or, he could be a townie who reconsidered.
Vote Bluesoul
*long, happy sigh*
Ahhhhh...I love mini games. So much easier to focus in on the dirtbags without so many distractions running about.
BTW, Cyan, if we hear that anyone has had any more items stolen from them in the night, even so much as a toothpick, I'm sure the town will be quite happy to skewer you. If you really do have a chance of winning with the town, and you survive a little longer, I trust you'll keep that in mind...
BTW, Cyan, if we hear that anyone has had any more items stolen from them in the night, even so much as a toothpick, I'm sure the town will be quite happy to skewer you. If you really do have a chance of winning with the town, and you survive a little longer, I trust you'll keep that in mind...
We need Chamber to confirm that he knew about the theft for this to work. So Chamber, please tell us about the stolen pills last night. Just whether or not you knew they were stolen I guess, although curiosity beckons.
I imagine RafK is pulling a reference from Hamlet, here, "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark." and applying it to Cyan's role/explanation of his win condition.
Quote from Azrael »
BTW, Cyan, if we hear that anyone has had any more items stolen from them in the night, even so much as a toothpick, I'm sure the town will be quite happy to skewer you. If you really do have a chance of winning with the town, and you survive a little longer, I trust you'll keep that in mind...
QFT. There's no need to go trying to take over the world, really, if you can win with the town, right? Right.
Then again, I'm not convinced you aren't scum, anyhow.
I wasn't aware that a mafioso could even have an alternate win condition..I haven't played in a ton of games(10 or 12 maybe), but, I've read many more, and I've never, ever seen that happen...it seems..illogical, somehow.
At any rate, time will show you guys that I have been 100% in honest in everything that I have said today, which I have.
I was suspicious of Bluesoul's immediate decision to add a vote to me, as well, but it seemed like it would just be OMGUS if I said anything. Of course, now it just seems like I'm barning Az, but, what can you do, right. Unvote, Vote Bluesoul
It only makes sense that I'd be suspicous of bluesoul for voting Cyan at the same time I unvoted him. But I'm not convinced that one post makes him scum. He made a descision based on questionable claim. It happens to be the opposite of mine, but a valid decision nonetheless. Cyan could be covering a dangerous role.
@Az & Cyan: Is the "terse explanation" all that makes you think he's scum or is there something else?
@Cyan: I played in a game (Literary Role Mafia) as scum, before it disbanded on diggy's site, ForumGames, where I could win solo as a scum (Evil Stepmother) by getting a specific townie role lynched (Cinderella). It is possible to be scum and still have an independent win condition.
There have been some variants in both High School mafia (lovers, outsider role) and Douglas Adams mafia (when I died, my role there became mafia and couldn't win without Arthur Dent dying) here.
You're still leaving out the other, easy solution: You're a neutral style scum, like an SK, only with stealing instead of killing. =/
Like Az said, if you're not stealing, you can't be "taking over da world" - and if you can win with the town, I don't see why you'd need to steal.
He doesn't even really explain anything. He says 'Sorry, not buying it'. Not buying what though? My whole claim? Or the fact that I have the town win condition in addition to my TAKE OVER THE WORLD one? If it was the former, I could see that, but you'd think that he'd have quoted something else/something more then. As it is, it seems like he's just trying to keep pressure on me so that I'd get lynched. Plus, the timing seems off. You had already unvoted, Matjoeman elected not to add his vote. Honestly, it's hard to explain completely, the vote just feels..dubious. This is part of why I didn't say anything initially, because I like to be able to explain things(you should see me try to play mafia on 'scum, where everyone just seems to randomly vote for completely arbitrary reasons..it drives me nuts), and I don't feel like I can completely explain this..but to me, the fact that Az feels the same way bolsters my confidence enough that I'll pitch in.
(I also find the play on Mafiascum to be incredibly erratic and lacking focus. It's part of the reason I don't play there- along with not being able to access it from work.)
Is there some reason you keep capitalizing your win condition? You'll notice I didn't type it word for word before, nor will I now. I would also advise everyone as a whole to avoid that for the moment.
@DYH: Fair enough. It's hard for me to wrap my head around scum that have alternate win conditions, but, apparently it happens. And you're right, I can easily just sit around and not do anything and win with the town, so that's fine.
EBWODP(for real this time):
Yeah, I can't see myself playing any more games after I finish this one that I've replaced into.
I keep capitalizing it because that's how it's written in my role PM. It doesn't actually do anything, I just think that it looks cool and is dramatic. Like when the cartoon was on the air, whenever the Brain would say, 'The same thing we do every night Pinky..try to TAKE OVER THE WORLD!', they would zoom in on him and his voice would boom and it was just..neat, heh. Anyway, it doesn't matter whether or not it's capitalized, I just wanted to present it in the fashion that it was presented to me.
My, my, very active around here. I'm gone for a day and you've already pushed for a claim.
Now, I don't really think anything one way or the other about the President part of this claim(at least not by itself) other then the fact that we have no reason to vote him in, obv. Could be town, could be scum, either way, props to AS.
Asuming chamber can confirm either that he had pills stolen, or at least that they fit in with his role, Cyan's got two confirmed abilities. It does seem incredibly unlikely that a mafioso would have a stealing ability as well as the extra vote thing, especially considering the potential power in getting an additional vote for the scum. The speed of the wagon also works in his favor. So I'm gonna have to say non-mafia on this one.
Here's what I'm having problems with. He claims to have:
1. The ability to gain an additional vote. (confirmed-ish)
2a. The ability to steal items from people. (presumably confirmable)
2b. The ability to gain additional abilities.
3. An alternate win condition.
That's 3(or 4 depending on how you want to count it) layers to this claim. Very rarely do you find more then one layer to a role. So it's likely he's either lying about the ability to gain additional abilities or that he's lying about his alternate win. He gains, imo, nothing by false claiming the ability to get additional abilities, except an increased chance of getting nightkilled, so I'm inclined to buy this one. He would, however, gain a lot by convincing us he has the town win. Thus I think it's very likely he's lying about that.
Furthermore, there is absolutely no correlation between gaining additional abilities or becoming president and his claimed alternate win, so it seems rather likely that he's lying about what taking over the world consist's of. I would imagine it would at least involve being elected president, and quite frankly, taking over the world sounds like perfect flavor for a SK.
While he's very likely non-mafia, I think we've got a good chance of taking down the SK day 1. As such, I will FOS Cyan and most likely upgrade to a vote when I feel like we have discussed all we need to today. As of right now, we've still got people that need to check in, though.
He doesn't even really explain anything. He says 'Sorry, not buying it'. Not buying what though? My whole claim? Or the fact that I have the town win condition in addition to my TAKE OVER THE WORLD one? If it was the former, I could see that, but you'd think that he'd have quoted something else/something more then. As it is, it seems like he's just trying to keep pressure on me so that I'd get lynched.
Are you trying to be oblivious? Or is it me that is oblivious? The way I read his post is that he doesn't believe the game will continue once you've won, and hopes to eliminate a threat.
This is the end of me defending bluesoul. I disagree with his choice, but I find his reasoning (or the reasoning I attribute him, he hasn't really said much) acceptable. But if you just think he's dubious; well, there isn't much I can do about that.
I thought that he had quoted a different line to respond to. That makes a little more sense, now. However, it still doesn't change my feelings regarding how he reacted.
I think that if chamber comes in and says that his abilities weren't stolen, and he wasn't affected in any adverse way, then we should just let this alone for now. If Cyan is telling the truth about being town, we should be fine. If not, he will have to try to steal again. At wich point the person claims and we lynch Cyan.
I think that if chamber comes in and says that his abilities weren't stolen
I'm sure chamber's quite capable of telling us whether he knows he had something stolen WITHOUT telling you whether he has abilities, but thanks for fishing.
FOS matjoeman, you're on the block right after Cyan.
Well what I meant was that if he confirms that the pills were stolen, but he also says that so and so happened to him (abilities being stolen was just a possibility), then we should reconsider lynching or taking some other action against cyan. My thinking was that Cyan might be lying and not just steal some random object, but a game related aspect as well (abilities, ability to vote, ability to post normally).
If Chamber was hurt in someway, he should say so. If not, then he should just confim whether or not he knew about the pills being stolen.
I don't know of anything being stolen, but I will say the pills fit my character. I still have about a page to read and will post once I have, for now, I can say bluesoul looks bad, good thing I have a grudge against him.
While he's very likely non-mafia, I think we've got a good chance of taking down the SK day 1. As such, I will FOS Cyan and most likely upgrade to a vote when I feel like we have discussed all we need to today. As of right now, we've still got people that need to check in, though.
Is a non-killing, disabled SK a priority threat for the town, though?
EDIT: Wait a minute. If Chamber can't confirm he was informed of the theft, that means we might not always know if Cyan strikes again.
CC: You said that his double-vote-ability was confirmable. How, exactly? Do you honestly propose that it's reasonable to actually vote Cyan into office as a means of confirmation? That's about equivalent to saying that I'm a confirmable townie because if you all vote for me, I'll die and you'll all see my alignment. We cannot possibly trust Cyan to be telling the truth about the results of that path.
Az: Now it's clear that chamber can't confirm his other ability either (not that I particularly expected him to be able to). How can you reasonably draw any conclusions about his specific role in the game when the only info he's given about himself is stuff that is totally un-confirmable?
All we can really draw from the info we have is that Cyan tried to manipulate the town into doing something that likely is not desirable. The ability that he claimed is inherently scummy, even if he's telling the truth, and if he isn't, then he's disguising something even worse.
If we had an actual reason to believe that Cyan was a non-killing SK, it would be one thing, but all we can reasonably believe at this point is that Cyan is anti-town. It would be supremely careless to let him slide because some people might say that they suspect that he's the wrong type of scum. Especially Day 1.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I don't know of anything being stolen, but I will say the pills fit my character. I still have about a page to read and will post once I have, for now, I can say bluesoul looks bad, good thing I have a grudge against him.
OK, so he's part true.
I guess the stealing is true. I do find the ability thing interseting though. He may still be a neutral role or something.
Anyways, I can't really say much more, I gotta go to sleep soon. Garage band camp is suprisingly tiring.
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If we had an actual reason to believe that Cyan was a non-killing SK, it would be one thing, but all we can reasonably believe at this point is that Cyan is anti-town. It would be supremely careless to let him slide because some people might say that they suspect that he's the wrong type of scum. Especially Day 1.
Granted, I'm of the opinion he's likely scum, I don't think that means it's the only possibility here. You're making a pretty sweeping generalization on behalf of the entire town that may not be true. FoS: CP
CC: You said that his double-vote-ability was confirmable. How, exactly? Do you honestly propose that it's reasonable to actually vote Cyan into office as a means of confirmation? That's about equivalent to saying that I'm a confirmable townie because if you all vote for me, I'll die and you'll all see my alignment. We cannot possibly trust Cyan to be telling the truth about the results of that path.
It is confirmable just like he said. What else, exactly, do you think that it would allow me to do, particularly during the day. It makes my vote count twice, and that is all. It is easily confirmable, and it would take 5 seconds to lynch me if I were lying. I already said that I would prove it by putting a vote onto myself, as long as it wouldn't bring me into danger of being lynched. Honestly, I don't see what more you could ask for here. In my mind, it is more townish that I brought it up early. I'm sorry that not everyone agrees.
Az: Now it's clear that chamber can't confirm his other ability either (not that I particularly expected him to be able to). How can you reasonably draw any conclusions about his specific role in the game when the only info he's given about himself is stuff that is totally un-confirmable?
Chamber did confirm my other ability, because he admitted that the bottle of pills that I found are related to his character. Unless I have some random knowledge of chamber's character and used to that to prove an ability that no one wants to believe is on a townie anyway. Yeah..what a plan that is.
All we can really draw from the info we have is that Cyan tried to manipulate the town into doing something that likely is not desirable. The ability that he claimed is inherently scummy, even if he's telling the truth, and if he isn't, then he's disguising something even worse.
Yes, I tried to manipulate everyone. By being as open and honest about the Presidency thing as was humanly possible. Did I immediately say what the ability did? No, like I said, I wanted to see how people reacted, to help gather information for the town. But as soon as it was obvious that people were balking at this, I told everyone what the ability was. Also, please explain how having a double vote is inherently scummy. If anything, it's inherently town. I can't even imagine a scum having the ability, let alone it being 'inherently scummy'.
If we had an actual reason to believe that Cyan was a non-killing SK, it would be one thing, but all we can reasonably believe at this point is that Cyan is anti-town. It would be supremely careless to let him slide because some people might say that they suspect that he's the wrong type of scum. Especially Day 1.
I am not an SK. I do not steal abilities from people. I take random items from them, items that apparently tell about their character to some extent, and from those items I make things that grant various abilities to me, and would eventually, maybe, make something that allows me to fulfill my alternate win condition. A win condition which AS specifically told me would not end the game, regardless of the fact that I would TAKE OVER THE WORLD. Who knows what he has in mind, maybe I take over the world for 5 seconds and then the plan fails, I have no idea. That's how it always happened in the cartoon. I know that he made it clear that I'm town, and that's that.
I will say this, and if I get damned for it, then I get damned for being honest. I know that my character is pro-town, and that my ability now does not hurt anyone, and that my alternate win will also not hurt anyone. I assume that the abilities that I gain will not hurt anyone either, but, I'll have to deal with that bridge when I get to it(if I were to gain a 1-Shot kill or whatever, I would simply tell everyone and let other people decide how I should use it, I honestly don't like being solely responsible for a killing decision). I already have a somewhat investigative ability, since the items do seem to be related to the person that I get them from. I know all of these things for fact, and I will tell you now that I will not stop playing my character just because you all don't believe me. If you want to lynch me for that, fine, so long as you know that you are lynching me for telling the truth. The town has an opportunity for me to become a powerful weapon, I only hope that you take advantage of it. Everything that I've said that could be confirmed so far has been(chamber admitting that the pills relate to his character), and the Presidency thing is also easily confirmable.
I want to bring up my win condition line as a way to validate myself, but, I"m not clear if talking about your win condition line is in violation of the rules or not, so, I'll wait for someone to answer that for me.
I don't think that there is anything more than I can say. I've told everyone everything that I know. That's all.
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Nice generalization, Azrael. My role isn't a politician anyway.
I could speculate for days on either side of the coin (town/scum) as to why you would have jumped on this plan immediately as opposed to waiting until later, and I find your "Oh I don't do that kind of thing (gambits)..." defense earlier somewhat questionable. However, the whole thing is so wishy-washy that it only warrants an FoS at this point.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I'm honestly surprised that you guys think that a mafioso would ever be given the ability to have their vote count twice, under any circumstances...that seems like it would be horribly unfair, to me.
One of the questions I asked AS about this ability would settle this argument, I think. I PMed AS earlier asking him if I could repeat it here(I'm sure he'll say yes, especially since he never actually answered it, but, I wanted to be sure). I'll let you guys know as soon as he answers. Assuming that people don't think that I'm just making this up. Blah.
Also, Hawkeye hasn't even posted since the game started..request Mod-Prod Hawkeye7.
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It's even more irritating in this case, when someone hasn't posted anything whatsoever since the game started. I'm also surprised that we haven't heard anything from RafK other than his confirmation post, he's normally highly active.(No, this isn't an attempt at deflection, either).
Sick over the weekend, it happens.
vote Cyan for calling out a lurker within 50 posts of the game starting, and then calling out a second one who has even posted during the game.
Also, three things:
One- you would not be my choice to have a second vote. If you were absolutely cleared town and we were near end-game, maybe, but that's all.
Two- very WIFOM argument about the power of the role as scum. It would only be powerful if it was automatic. If the town are dumb enough to give a mafia a second vote on trust, they deserve to be screwed.
Three- a mafia who gets powerful if the town is dumb and who's just vanilla if not sounds like a great mafia role, wish I'd thought of it, grats AS.
Also, my role is not Vanilla, regardless of whether or not I ever have a second vote.
Vote carrion pigeons for President
Vote Cyan for PTA Treasurer
If either of those do anything by the time of the next vote count, I think it may be helpful.
I'm currently leaning toward Cyan being scum, but I'll wait before I lay on my vote.
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AuroraSparrow just got back to me(apparently he actually answered me before and I thought he was talking about something else).
The question that I asked him was: If I am still alive(and have been voted President) along with another townie, and there are 2 mafioso left, would the game continue(since technically we could still lynch one of them), or would they win? He said that the game would continue. I've honestly never seen someone's vote count twice before, so, I didn't know what would happen there.
bluesoul (1): chamber
Chamber (1): cyan
Bertrand (1): matjoeman
matjoeman (1): carrion pigeons
DYH (1): CropCircles
Carrion pigeons (1): bluesoul
crop circles (1): bertrand
Voted Cyan for president (2): Cyan, Cropcircles
7 to lynch.
Hawkeye will be prodded.
EDIT: Hawkeye's mailbox is full, so I emailed him. If you see him in a thread try to tell him.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Additionally, we have no way of knowing the real consequences of voting for you for President. You ask us to risk a lot for no knowable gain. That also reeks of scum.
If it turns out that voting for different things has a general impact on the game, and that you just happen to be the source of knowledge about it, then that makes you seem less suspicious, because it gives us an opportunity to test the ability without having to follow you blindly.
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O yeah, Unvote
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || sk: LookingforReality (Copycat) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || survivor: matjoeman (Anarchist) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || town: kops (Anarchist) |||
Mafia stats
As for having no way of knowing the real consequences, this has to be the most easily verified ability that there is. If/When you guys vote me for President, I'll vote myself to prove to you that I'm telling the truth(as long as it won't lynch me).
And, since AS has posted an updated Vote Count, it's clear that you can't vote anyone else for President, nor me for any other position. So yes, you have to 'follow me blindly' for this to occur, but, as I said already, it's tremedously easy to verify.
I honestly didn't think that a scum would ever be given this kind of ability, under any circumstances..town voting or not...it seems very powerful even on a townie, and this seems like the fairest way for this kind of ability to enter the game for a townsperson, it doesn't seem like something that a scum should ever have, to me...it would be very unbalancing then, IMO.
If you guys want to wait, fine. If I don't ever reach the necessary number of votes, fine. It doesn't hurt my character, nor affect my ability to play the game. I just thought it was cool, because it was new to me. Obviously I should have waited and brought it up later..that's hindsight for you.
But, given that he's now gone on a lurker hunt here early day 1, claimed a non-vanilla role (why exactly?), and this whole double-vote thing... I'll just leave it where it is.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
As for 'being on a lurker hunt', I'd say that's excessive. I didn't FOS anybody or vote anybody. I requested a Mod-Prod on someone that hasn't even confirmed that he realizes that the game has started, and idly commented that I wondered where RafK has been, because he's generally very active. I will always, always be opposed to lurking. When a person lurks, not only are they simply not playing the game, but, they affect everyone else's interaction with the game itself as well. This is especially evident in a game that only has 12 players. I highly doubt that anyone will ever make me see lurking as something acceptable. If anything, I think that most people are simply too used to it and have gotten complacent about it, or don't want to face pressure from the peers for mod-prodding someone. That is simply not the case with me. It seems to me that, if no one ever lurked, every game of mafia would be better. If I can help accomplish that by mod-prodding someone, then I will absolutely do so. I fail to see anything wrong with this.
Sorry.
If you can come up with some reasonable way for either the town to believe that your ability isn't harmful, or that the rest of your role is somehow geared towards making the ability useful, I'll happily unvote. As it is, I just don't believe you.
AS obviously knows that it's hard enough to get the majority of the town to vote on something when they have a pretty good idea of what the results will be. It'd be virtually impossible to get the town to accept that they ought to do something as completely hare-brained as to follow one person no one has any reason to trust blindly in a bid for power. There needs to be some significant kind of counterbalance to this to make it mean something to the game, and that's what makes me mistrust this and you.
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That's all my opinion, and subject to change. I feels strongly enough to vote at the moment however. It's also all based on the intial feeling, mentioned by others, that this is a balancing measure for a powerful mafia role. So I'd like a claim, name and other ability.
I'm also concerned about hinting at a power role without actually claiming one. Saying you're the doc or cop is great and will save you without counter claim if you're about to die, but this is a deterent without back up, and were you town would only give more information to the mafia. In short, it's not a townie play.
As to what wasn't good enough, that's a reference to post 55 where I said I'd wait for you to come up with a response from AS. What you came up with wasn't enough to change my mind. Granted, it was vague reference. In fact, I probably should have said all this in my last post, but I was in a hurry.
At any rate, I guess I'm at 5 votes, and I've talked about my role enough, so I'll go ahead and claim.
I am The Brain from the WB Show Pinky and The Brain. My role PM says that this situation concerns me(thus I am town), but not enough to completely distract me from my lifelong objective, to TAKE OVER THE WORLD(alternate win condition).
Each night, I PM AS the name of a player. I can then search that players belongs and will acquire an item of some sort. As I collect items, I will gain abilities, and ultimately, will TAKE OVER THE WORLD(how this happens depends on what items I collect, apparently there are a couple of ways that it can occur). The following is what I know for certain about this:
1)I asked if the items that I acquire are indicative of the character of the person that I took them from. AS just said 'perhaps'.
2)As soon as I collect the items that give me a certain ability(I have no idea what they are), I'll be told that I've gained it.
3)I will not know that I've collected the right items for one of my methods to TAKE OVER THE WORLD until I have all of the necessary items to do so.(My best guess here is that some of the items that I'll find are useless and some will help..I doubt that everyone has an item that helps me).
On night 0, I targeted Chamber, and found a small canister of pills to treat mental instability(this was what prompted me to ask if the items that I found are related to the person's character).
I haven't gained any additional abilities as of yet, which makes sense, since I've only gotten one item so far.
My win conditions are kill the scum or TAKE OVER THE WORLD.
AS let me know that, even if I TAKE OVER THE WORLD, the game will still continue as normal.
I'm pretty unhappy to be claiming on Day 1, especially in such rapid fashion. I honestly thought that the town would be happy to have an additional vote on it's side, I didn't realize that people would think that the ability to have 2 votes could be given to a scum, even if the town did have to vote for it. But that really is all there is to it. If the majority of the town agrees to vote me for President, my vote will count twice. I probably should have brought it up later in the game, but, my role has alot going on as it is, and like I said, I genuinely thought that people would be more receptive to it, because it seems impossible for a scum to ever have that ability, IMO.
As for the claim. Seems mostly on. The pills seem bad for chamber. But the claim does seem twisted. How can you expect me to believe that taking over the world won't end the game? Whether you're really town at the moment is WIFOM. What I'm concerned about from this role is if you aquire a killing role and attempt to balance sides to prolong the game, or if you manage to quickly aquire the items you need. Saying the pills don't help doesn't prove anything.
That said, I'm content to unvote and just hope you disapear during the night sometime.
@Chamber: Would you like to tell us about your condition?
If need be, I'd be willing to inform the town as I gain abilities...obviously the mafia are going to kill me the first chance they get, since they don't know what abilities I'll gain anymore than I do or you do, so, telling everyone doesn't seem like it would really hurt in that regard, and at least the town would know.
Also, I don't know whether or not the pills help..like I said, AS said that I won't know that I've achieved my alternate win condition until I collect all of the necessary items to do so. From my perspective, it's completely random with literally no strategy involved. But it seems like alot it should be alot of fun, and I'm pretty excited about it. All of the roles I've played up until this point(even ones that I've replaced into) have been really straightforward. Obviously this isn't..to the point that it overwhelmed me, honestly.
Wait, is becoming president a necissary part of taking over the world?
EBWODP
wtf?
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || sk: LookingforReality (Copycat) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || survivor: matjoeman (Anarchist) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || town: kops (Anarchist) |||
Mafia stats
Also, I am not neutral, my win condition line flatly says kill all scum or TAKE OVER THE WORLD.
Honestly, I think that this is because the TAKE OVER THE WORLD part is going to be practically impossible. All I can do is randomly guess people and hope that in the end I guessed the right combination of them, AS isn't going to give me any indication along the way as to whether or not I'm actually accomplishing anything. If someone dies that has a part that I need, then, my chances are shot(though AS did indicate that there is more than one way for me to accomplish this, clearly it's not going to be anything simple). It seems completely and utterly luck based, with no strategy on my part whatsoever, which is why I think he decided I should be town with the regular town win condition from the beginning, instead of just having to change me to town if my win condition becomes impossible at some point.
Sorry. Not buying it. Unvote, vote Cyan.
Battle Royale Mafia
(Come see who won!)
Unvote for discussion.
Not sure whether I smell a modified, ability-stealing SK type role, or a lying neutral-town, or a mafia who's feeding us his real win condition as a ruse to pretend he's neutral.
Either way, I don't trust his word much. But that doesn't mean I want him dead either, although it would seem that AH, Bluesoul, and Carrion Pigeons don't share that sentiment. In fact, they seem entirely too eager to eliminate a supposedly neutral player, and their first reaction was to slap on quick votes.
Carrion Pigeons, of all people, ought to know how much damage pursuing neutrals can do to a town, but his vote was qualified as pressuring for additional truth: a reasonable-appearing notion. Also easy cover for scum, but we can't know which it is yet so easily, can we? Bluesoul might be a little more green, but that pitifully terse explanation of his is drawing me like a moth to the flame. And AH: AH might be a scum who smelled prey, realized he didn't want credit for a bad lynch this early, then backed off in hopes that the town would be forced to do his dirty work for him. Or, he could be a townie who reconsidered.
Vote Bluesoul
*long, happy sigh*
Ahhhhh...I love mini games. So much easier to focus in on the dirtbags without so many distractions running about.
I imagine RafK is pulling a reference from Hamlet, here, "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark." and applying it to Cyan's role/explanation of his win condition.
QFT. There's no need to go trying to take over the world, really, if you can win with the town, right? Right.
Then again, I'm not convinced you aren't scum, anyhow.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
At any rate, time will show you guys that I have been 100% in honest in everything that I have said today, which I have.
I was suspicious of Bluesoul's immediate decision to add a vote to me, as well, but it seemed like it would just be OMGUS if I said anything. Of course, now it just seems like I'm barning Az, but, what can you do, right.
Unvote, Vote Bluesoul
@Az & Cyan: Is the "terse explanation" all that makes you think he's scum or is there something else?
There have been some variants in both High School mafia (lovers, outsider role) and Douglas Adams mafia (when I died, my role there became mafia and couldn't win without Arthur Dent dying) here.
You're still leaving out the other, easy solution: You're a neutral style scum, like an SK, only with stealing instead of killing. =/
Like Az said, if you're not stealing, you can't be "taking over da world" - and if you can win with the town, I don't see why you'd need to steal.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Is there some reason you keep capitalizing your win condition? You'll notice I didn't type it word for word before, nor will I now. I would also advise everyone as a whole to avoid that for the moment.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
@DYH: Fair enough. It's hard for me to wrap my head around scum that have alternate win conditions, but, apparently it happens. And you're right, I can easily just sit around and not do anything and win with the town, so that's fine.
EBWODP(for real this time):
Yeah, I can't see myself playing any more games after I finish this one that I've replaced into.
I keep capitalizing it because that's how it's written in my role PM. It doesn't actually do anything, I just think that it looks cool and is dramatic. Like when the cartoon was on the air, whenever the Brain would say, 'The same thing we do every night Pinky..try to TAKE OVER THE WORLD!', they would zoom in on him and his voice would boom and it was just..neat, heh. Anyway, it doesn't matter whether or not it's capitalized, I just wanted to present it in the fashion that it was presented to me.
Now, I don't really think anything one way or the other about the President part of this claim(at least not by itself) other then the fact that we have no reason to vote him in, obv. Could be town, could be scum, either way, props to AS.
Asuming chamber can confirm either that he had pills stolen, or at least that they fit in with his role, Cyan's got two confirmed abilities. It does seem incredibly unlikely that a mafioso would have a stealing ability as well as the extra vote thing, especially considering the potential power in getting an additional vote for the scum. The speed of the wagon also works in his favor. So I'm gonna have to say non-mafia on this one.
Here's what I'm having problems with. He claims to have:
1. The ability to gain an additional vote. (confirmed-ish)
2a. The ability to steal items from people. (presumably confirmable)
2b. The ability to gain additional abilities.
3. An alternate win condition.
That's 3(or 4 depending on how you want to count it) layers to this claim. Very rarely do you find more then one layer to a role. So it's likely he's either lying about the ability to gain additional abilities or that he's lying about his alternate win. He gains, imo, nothing by false claiming the ability to get additional abilities, except an increased chance of getting nightkilled, so I'm inclined to buy this one. He would, however, gain a lot by convincing us he has the town win. Thus I think it's very likely he's lying about that.
Furthermore, there is absolutely no correlation between gaining additional abilities or becoming president and his claimed alternate win, so it seems rather likely that he's lying about what taking over the world consist's of. I would imagine it would at least involve being elected president, and quite frankly, taking over the world sounds like perfect flavor for a SK.
While he's very likely non-mafia, I think we've got a good chance of taking down the SK day 1. As such, I will FOS Cyan and most likely upgrade to a vote when I feel like we have discussed all we need to today. As of right now, we've still got people that need to check in, though.
[The Family]
This is the end of me defending bluesoul. I disagree with his choice, but I find his reasoning (or the reasoning I attribute him, he hasn't really said much) acceptable. But if you just think he's dubious; well, there isn't much I can do about that.
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || sk: LookingforReality (Copycat) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || survivor: matjoeman (Anarchist) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || town: kops (Anarchist) |||
Mafia stats
I'm sure chamber's quite capable of telling us whether he knows he had something stolen WITHOUT telling you whether he has abilities, but thanks for fishing.
FOS matjoeman, you're on the block right after Cyan.
If Chamber was hurt in someway, he should say so. If not, then he should just confim whether or not he knew about the pills being stolen.
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || sk: LookingforReality (Copycat) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || survivor: matjoeman (Anarchist) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || town: kops (Anarchist) |||
Mafia stats
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Is a non-killing, disabled SK a priority threat for the town, though?
EDIT: Wait a minute. If Chamber can't confirm he was informed of the theft, that means we might not always know if Cyan strikes again.
*frown*
Az: Now it's clear that chamber can't confirm his other ability either (not that I particularly expected him to be able to). How can you reasonably draw any conclusions about his specific role in the game when the only info he's given about himself is stuff that is totally un-confirmable?
All we can really draw from the info we have is that Cyan tried to manipulate the town into doing something that likely is not desirable. The ability that he claimed is inherently scummy, even if he's telling the truth, and if he isn't, then he's disguising something even worse.
If we had an actual reason to believe that Cyan was a non-killing SK, it would be one thing, but all we can reasonably believe at this point is that Cyan is anti-town. It would be supremely careless to let him slide because some people might say that they suspect that he's the wrong type of scum. Especially Day 1.
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OK, so he's part true.
I guess the stealing is true. I do find the ability thing interseting though. He may still be a neutral role or something.
Anyways, I can't really say much more, I gotta go to sleep soon. Garage band camp is suprisingly tiring.
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Granted, I'm of the opinion he's likely scum, I don't think that means it's the only possibility here. You're making a pretty sweeping generalization on behalf of the entire town that may not be true. FoS: CP
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
It is confirmable just like he said. What else, exactly, do you think that it would allow me to do, particularly during the day. It makes my vote count twice, and that is all. It is easily confirmable, and it would take 5 seconds to lynch me if I were lying. I already said that I would prove it by putting a vote onto myself, as long as it wouldn't bring me into danger of being lynched. Honestly, I don't see what more you could ask for here. In my mind, it is more townish that I brought it up early. I'm sorry that not everyone agrees.
Chamber did confirm my other ability, because he admitted that the bottle of pills that I found are related to his character. Unless I have some random knowledge of chamber's character and used to that to prove an ability that no one wants to believe is on a townie anyway. Yeah..what a plan that is.
Yes, I tried to manipulate everyone. By being as open and honest about the Presidency thing as was humanly possible. Did I immediately say what the ability did? No, like I said, I wanted to see how people reacted, to help gather information for the town. But as soon as it was obvious that people were balking at this, I told everyone what the ability was. Also, please explain how having a double vote is inherently scummy. If anything, it's inherently town. I can't even imagine a scum having the ability, let alone it being 'inherently scummy'.
I am not an SK. I do not steal abilities from people. I take random items from them, items that apparently tell about their character to some extent, and from those items I make things that grant various abilities to me, and would eventually, maybe, make something that allows me to fulfill my alternate win condition. A win condition which AS specifically told me would not end the game, regardless of the fact that I would TAKE OVER THE WORLD. Who knows what he has in mind, maybe I take over the world for 5 seconds and then the plan fails, I have no idea. That's how it always happened in the cartoon. I know that he made it clear that I'm town, and that's that.
I will say this, and if I get damned for it, then I get damned for being honest. I know that my character is pro-town, and that my ability now does not hurt anyone, and that my alternate win will also not hurt anyone. I assume that the abilities that I gain will not hurt anyone either, but, I'll have to deal with that bridge when I get to it(if I were to gain a 1-Shot kill or whatever, I would simply tell everyone and let other people decide how I should use it, I honestly don't like being solely responsible for a killing decision). I already have a somewhat investigative ability, since the items do seem to be related to the person that I get them from. I know all of these things for fact, and I will tell you now that I will not stop playing my character just because you all don't believe me. If you want to lynch me for that, fine, so long as you know that you are lynching me for telling the truth. The town has an opportunity for me to become a powerful weapon, I only hope that you take advantage of it. Everything that I've said that could be confirmed so far has been(chamber admitting that the pills relate to his character), and the Presidency thing is also easily confirmable.
I want to bring up my win condition line as a way to validate myself, but, I"m not clear if talking about your win condition line is in violation of the rules or not, so, I'll wait for someone to answer that for me.
I don't think that there is anything more than I can say. I've told everyone everything that I know. That's all.