Lightster: Yeah, I knew that was going to be an issue if I ever had to claim immediately after I made that post(I didn't really think about the fact that I was a Miller at the time, because it's such a weird role that you can't really do anything with)...I hoped it wouldn't happen, because honestly I don't have a good explanation for it, except that the Miller is more of an interesting role than a good one, whereas having a back-up doc and a back-up cop is just flatly powerful. Also, I think I just wasn't going to believe anything Pod said at that point, so I just tried to cast doubt on everything he said. Hopefully that wasn't a fatal mistake for me.
@Hyram:
My claim doesn't affect your ability to claim. Your role, if you actually have one, is your role, and is independent of me/my role. Also, I wish you would stop alluding to being cop. I'm not advocating that you claim right now, because you're not at 4 votes, and don't really need to do so. I'm not 'eager' for you to claim, nor have I ever been so, honestly. I brought it up previously for reasons that I explained previously, but, will explain again. When you are 1 vote from lynch, as you thought you were, then you claim. There is no reason to wait for people to say 'claim', because no one is going to do anything until you do so anyway. I didn't really understand claiming/why it's important etc. in my first game, but, it makes more sense to me now. As you can see in any Mafia game, alot of mis-lynches happen, and the claiming aspect of the game allows the town to minimize these mis-lynches to some degree(as town, you generally err on the side of caution when it comes to questionable claims..if someone is scum and gotten themself to that point, they will probably do so in the future as well)..but if you lynch a townie, you go to night, which means that another townie is likely to die as well.
You're also alluding to being cereal now as well, along with possibly being a power role. Your play is so scummy that it makes me sad
Also, the statement 'IE Are we all cereal' just seems like fishing for everyone to give out role information..and we all know that a statement/request like this is a large part of why Pod got lynched...more scumminess.
Can you explain WHY your posting style changed so much, Hyram? I can explain mine.
Going into night, I knew that someone was going to immediately try to finger me as soon as the day started, and that person was likely to be Mafia, because I'm the 'low fruit on the tree' because of the disaster with Pod. So, I was expecting that. And on top of that, you keep/kept trying to make up stuff/use misleading information to make me look more guilty, which is very much a Mafia play(spreading confusion and disinformation, etc)..so I was pretty thoroughly convinced that you were Mafia just after the first post, considering the Pod thing, and then the fact that you tried to pin responsibility for SP on me, which was totally ridiculous, since I was never aggressive towards him at all. To me, these things said 'Mafia' very loudly, and the more you've posted today, the more and more you seem scummy. Maaaaaaaybe it's just Pod part 2, but, that seems like impossible to me.
I'm obviously not cleared, but I have a little breathing room since ZDS unvoted..I am positive that alot of information can be gained off of looking at how people responding to Hyram vs. myself...so that's what I'm going to do today(real life day, not mafia day), is go over how everyone responded. I think it'd be a good idea for everyone to do this, but obviously,(WIFOM) I'm going to be happy with any suggestion that gets some pressure off of me.
Blah..well, Lord Rahl's vote puts me at 4, so I will claim.
I am Grape Nuts. According to my role PM, my only interest is in seeing people eat healthy and stay alive and well, and this makes me Town.
My ability is: Miller. According to my role PM, this means that I am town, but, if I am investigated, I will show up as non-town.
FOS: Cyan The whole point of being Miller is that the person doesn't know they are one. That way, confusion ensues when a cop investigates a Miller and pronounces them scum. Also:
Quote from P_F »
Quote from SorryGuy »
There may or may not be other roles in this game. For reference, here are a few other possible roles:
-Vigilante: The Vigilante is a killer on the Town side who can either choose to kill every night, or choose to kill a certain number of times during the game, depending on the variation.
-Back-up Doc: Assumes the Doctor's abilities after the Doctor dies.
-Back-up Cop: Assumes the Cop's abilities after the Cop dies.
-Role blocker: Chooses one player per night to block from performing his or her Night Choice.
-Mason: The Masons are a group on the Town's side who know each other to be townies and can talk to each other at Night.
Vigilante, Back-up doc and cop, role blocker, and even Mason ... but no Miller. It seems like an unreasonable role for a Newb Game. However, Peregrine_Falcon has shown he doesn't mod the "ordinary" way, so I'm open to the possibility that he is a Miller.
Quote from ZDS »
Silent Prophet was obviously the only vanilla townie.
Why obviously? All we have so far is a dead back-up doc and a guy claiming to be Miller. That doesn't prove anything. Or are you being sarcastic?
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By kingcobweb and Goblinboy.
Official Elitist of [thread=40859][RBS][/thread]
Quote from kingcobweb »
I don't understand the purpose of gimmick accounts.
I do not believe that there is only one vanilla townie. With 9 left in the game, we have 3 mafia, 1 doc, 1 cop and 4 slots left unfilled. What do you propose those slots are.
About Cyan being a miller, we all know that we have all kinds of back-up in this game plus a serial killer and a cult leader. Silent Prophet was obviously the only vanilla townie. More seriously, Cyan's claim is believable only because there is no reason that we can't have a miller in a newb game, and is not believable because of everything else.
(bolding mine)
Yea, I'm pretty ZDS is being serious here guys. Like, cmon, why wouldn't there be a cult leader and SK? [/sarcasm]
More seriously* I'm sort of inclined to agree with you there ZDS, it's not like we have a reason to believe there wouldn't be a miller... and I sorta believe his explanation.
Quote from SAL »
FOS: Cyan The whole point of being Miller is that the person doesn't know they are one. That way, confusion ensues when a cop investigates a Miller and pronounces them scum.
Riiight... And don't you think him claiming miller right now isn't producing enough confusion? And it gives him a shield from investigation, making it impossible to default to just "Oh, the cop said he was scum" to lynch him.
Quote from Hyram »
I do not believe that there is only one vanilla townie. With 9 left in the game, we have 3 mafia, 1 doc, 1 cop and 4 slots left unfilled. What do you propose those slots are.
Well, from those 4 slots, I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to also include a back-up cop, and a vig. Thus, if Cyan's claim is true, that gives us a miller, leaving us with... 1 vanilla. :/
Though 2 vanilla's (3 if you count the miller) in a newb game is kinda odd, this just keeps piling on in how PF is trying to make this interesting for us.
FOS: Cyan The whole point of being Miller is that the person doesn't know they are one. That way, confusion ensues when a cop investigates a Miller and pronounces them scum.
This depends on the setup and the mod. The bot in #mafia sends role PMs that inform the player that they are, in fact, a miller. I've seen forum games that tell players they're millers.
Whether Cyan really would know if he's a miller or not can truly only be answered by the mod. Since that's one of those things that would destabilize the game, I'm just going to FOS Cyan again and wait to see what comes of it.
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I don't believe the miller claim. Because its not listed in the roles on page one, and because typically millers are not told they are millers. It seems awfully convenient for Cyan at this point to claim the one role that could clear him in what I think this situation is.
And ZDS, a SK and a Cult Leader? Where the heck did you pull those from? The possibility that we would have a SK and a Cult Leader and possibly only 1 or 2 vanilla townies in a newb game is, IMO, 0.
-_-
EBWODP: ah, sorry ZDS, your post totally ninja'd mine, ignore that last paragraph
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|It is Night 0. Night ends in 180 s (or when all choices are in). Submit actions to fadeblue
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
I don't believe the miller claim. Because its not listed in the roles on page one, and because typically millers are not told they are millers. It seems awfully convenient for Cyan at this point to claim the one role that could clear him in what I think this situation is.
That is not always the case(that the Miller doesn't know), it depends on the Mod. PF has clearly shown that he likes to go against the grain, so far. Also, the newb rules don't generally include a Miller, it's true...so think about it..if PF edited the rules to include the possibility of a miller, it would be a ridiculously huge giveaway, right? It is much more clever and ingenius this way. Plus, it's a noob game, it stands to reason that things are going to be more cut and dry than under normal circumstances. I honestly had never heard of a Miller before I received my role PM. PF has done alot to make this game interesting, it shouldn't really be surprising that there are roles that normally do not appear. Also, like I said, the existence of a backup doc, IMO, indicates the likely existence of a backup cop...and having essentially 2 cops heavily detracts from game balance..adding a Miller balances that out a little bit, at least, in my opinion. There could be a couple of Masons as well..who really knows...it certainly makes for a more interesting game than in Noob 7.
Anyway, aside from that..I'm Grape Nuts...it's hard to imagine a situation where Grape Nuts could be scum, IMO.
Vote Count II: Return of the Vote Count (5 to lynch)
3 Hyram (Cyan, Annorax, ZeDorkSlipeur)
3 Cyan (Mosschop, Hooga, Lord rahl)
3 Not Voting (Salubrious, Hyram, Lightster)
FOS Count: It Could Happen to You!
1 Salubrious (Annorax)
5 Hyram (ZeDorkSlipeur, +2 Annorax, Lightster, Lord Rahl)
12 Cyan (Hyram, Lord rahl, +3 Annorax, ZeDorkSlipeur, ZeDorkSlipeur x3, +2 Lightster, Salubrious)
3 ZeDorkSlipeur (+2 Lord rahl, Lightster)
2 Lightster (Mosschop, Annorax)
1 Lord rahl (Lightster)
Funk Count: The best new game mechanic since Kicker
1 Peregrine Falcon (Peregrine Falcon)
1 Salubrious (Annorax)
1 ZeDorkSlipeur (Hyram)
1 Mosschop (Hyram)
And ZDS, a SK and a Cult Leader? Where the heck did you pull those from? The possibility that we would have a SK and a Cult Leader and possibly only 1 or 2 vanilla townies in a newb game is, IMO, 0.
-_-
Quoted for truthery. The chance of all of those rules being in the game is indeed zero. IMHO the chance of one or two nonbasic roles being in the game for flavor's sake is, while not a favorite, still non-zero. There is most definitely no cult, and I'd say the chance of a SK is close enough to 0 that it's probably not worth considering, but the chance of a miller isn't zero. It's definitely low, and I'm not sure if a way to test Cyan's claim other than lynching is in the game, but miller is an uncomplicated role with little potential to confuse anyone but the most feeble-minded. If I were modding a newbie game and trying to find a way to make it more interesting and give newbies a glimpse at what more advanced games are like, a miller is probably one of the ways I'd do that.
God, I sound like MaRo at core set article time. Someone take the alcohol away....
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Like I said previously, I honestly wasn't thinking about the fact that I'm a Miller when I wrote that. I was so convinced that Pod was scum that I wanted to jump at any opportunity to debunk him, and him claiming back-up doc seemed like a perfect opportunity to show yet another reason that he was scummy(difficulty in proving claim, etc)...I was just being stubborn and arrogant...I regretted it as soon as Pod got lynched, and I'm really regretting it now, obviously. I guess stuff like this is why you can't edit/delete your own posts
Ugh. That was a long hiatus. Not to many posts to catch up on. Perhaps we should return to the discussion ZDS made sometime during the first day. What could the mafia be I mean breakfast food wise?
Ugh. That was a long hiatus. Not to many posts to catch up on. Perhaps we should return to the discussion ZDS made sometime during the first day. What could the mafia be I mean breakfast food wise?
McDonalds?
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The only food worth eating at McDonalds is breakfast food...McGriddles etc..everything else there is godawful.
I wanted to mention that(about Hyram scummily fishing for info again) but it seems pointless, and I feel like I have to watch everything that I say ridiculously carefully now. Glad to see someone else bring it up though.
I actually really like McGriddles. I'm not really trying to fish for information. I was trying to get discussion started again. I'm cereal, everyone that has been killed has been cereal, so I assume that everyone is cereal. And thus, I think the mafia would be something like Count Chocula. Although, having a vamp (Count Chocula) in a noob game would be interesting...
I actually really like McGriddles. I'm not really trying to fish for information. I was trying to get discussion started again. I'm cereal, everyone that has been killed has been cereal, so I assume that everyone is cereal. And thus, I think the mafia would be something like Count Chocula. Although, having a vamp (Count Chocula) in a noob game would be interesting...
Correct me if I'm wrong... but you just claimed scum/Count Chocula?
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so Hyram, are you trying to claim or to fish or are you saying you're not doing either? because I'm totally confused...
I just don't see the point in this kind of discussion in a game where all the roles are "vanilla" roles. Its doubtful it will help the town any, and if it happens that the mafia didn't know something then it obviously brings it into the open.
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<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|It is Night 0. Night ends in 180 s (or when all choices are in). Submit actions to fadeblue
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
It's not a helpful discussion for the town at all, we went over all of this on Day 1 when Pod suggested that mass name-claim(Hyram has effectively done the same thing with 'are we all cereal' etc). That's the point that I was trying to make. Hyram has already alluded to a power role and flat-out stated that he's some kind of cereal. It seems like he's trying to claim as much as he can, without actually claiming..but it doesn't make sense, because he really doesn't need to be claiming anything right now, since he's at 3 votes and has been there for days. He's being defensive for seemingly no reason.
I'm actually just trying to start some discussion plain and simple. We've kinda stagnated here.
Scum has a reason to try to speed the town up into a lynch. The town has no reason to speed anything up. We apparently need more information. You're scum, that much is obvious. Cyan may or may not be your scum buddy, I'm leaning toward "may", but don't want to hammer him (or anyone) without damning evidence.
Stop the dancing around the truth and claim already, scumbag.
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I'm actually just trying to start some discussion plain and simple. We've kinda stagnated here.
I don't think he was trying to speed up a lynch here, this just looks like someone actually pointing out how we stalled. For instance, I got back from my DIS release activities just now, and sat down at my computer, and was all like "When was the last time I looked at the Mafia thread, much less posted?"
I'll post again when I think I have something to contribute... which will hopefully be before I go to bed tonight...
Scum has a reason to try to speed the town up into a lynch. The town has no reason to speed anything up. We apparently need more information. You're scum, that much is obvious. Cyan may or may not be your scum buddy, I'm leaning toward "may", but don't want to hammer him (or anyone) without damning evidence.
Stop the dancing around the truth and claim already, scumbag.
I'd like to point out your obvious attempts to speed up a lynch.
EDBWOP - Because I think thats a bit short.
I don't particularily think we have alot to go off of right now. So, I'll be back with a second day vote history that updates the one LIghtster made, in a bit.
As promised updated FOS/Vote list.
FOS 45 - PF CLEARS UP THE FUNK
54 - Sal -> Rahl
57 - Lightster -> ZDS
73 - Pod -> Hyram
75 - Lightster -> Hyram
84 - Sal -> Rahl
95 - Lightster -> Pod
109 - ZDS -> Rahl
ZDS -> Sal
115 - ZDS -> Pod
121 - Rahl -> Pod
137 - SP -> Rahl
140 - ZDS -> SP
169 - POD -> Sal
188 - MC -> Pod
MC -> Cyan
191 - Lightster -> Nymphe
218 - SP -> Pod
219 - AN -> Pod
231 - ZDS -> Cyan 239 - PF DECLARES POD LYNCHED
241 - PF DECLARES SP NKED
VOTE 45 - PF CLEARS UP THE FUNK
65 - Hooga -> Pod
83 - Rahl -> Pod
84 - Sal -> MC
109 - ZDS -> Pod
110 - Pod -> Rahl
127 - Pod -> SP
157 - Pod -> Pod
193 - Cyan -> Nymphe
196 - Pod -> Nymphe
209 - Hooga -> Sal
220 - SP -> Pod
227 - Pod -> Sal
229 - AN -> Pod
232 - Cyan -> ZDS
233 - Hooga -> Pod 239 - PF DECLARES POD LYNCHED
241 - PF DECLARES SP NKED
Salubrious, who himself made a poor justification for his own vote ("For your scummy behavior (already expounded upon by other players) and diversionary tactics, I'm going to have to Vote: Pod." [or in other words : "others have said you were scummy, so I vote for you even though I have no real argument"]).
It's not like that was the only thing I said. I did find the arguments against Pod convincing, but I had other reasons as well. (mentioned in my post)
Quote from ZeDorkSlipeur »
This was only a day (in real time) and one short post by Pod (where he voted Salubrious) that Annorax came from "I don't want to lynch Pod because he might just be an idiot" to "Pod is scum". Of course, it is possible that his change of mind came from a relecture of the thread, but then, why would he justify his vote by Salubrious' vote ?
Early in Day 2, he stated again that he voted because of Salubrious, and then FoSed him "for giving us information that led to the death of a townie." What information ? I fail to see any information in post #225 (except perhaps the list he took from Wikipedia, but he did not use it as an argument against Pod).
Then Hyram appeared and started fighting against Cyan. He repeated against Hyram the argument made by Cyan (how strange it is for Hyram to go from "I'm the newbiest ever" to "I know what a pbpa is", how Hyram could not not have editted his post on purpose, how Hyram would have been modkilled if he wasn't scum (which is not sure, although only Peregrine can tell, and he understandably did not answer any question about it) etc), and said Cyan was looking scummy, but never said why, and did so only after several people had already stated it (that Cyan looked scummy). He never made a serious, logical argument against either Cyan or Hyram.
Now, I don't want to imply anything about Annorax, but IF he was scum, his actions would have been a good mafia play. As the scum knows who is mafia and who is town (I'm assuming there's no SK in this game), it would be easy to vote for X based on Y's "analysis" and then the next day attack Y for trying to start a bandwagon on X ("I trusted you!"). However, none of that means that Annorax is mafia, and I don't think there's enough evidence for a vote against him yet.
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By kingcobweb and Goblinboy.
Official Elitist of [thread=40859][RBS][/thread]
Quote from kingcobweb »
I don't understand the purpose of gimmick accounts.
The more I think of it, the more I think Hyram is not scum, but just made a (really) bad play. The reason why he attacked Cyan for meaningless reasons is easily understandable, and it is also easily understandable why Hyram prepared a cunning plan to lynch a (seemingly) scum without having to reveal himself. The problem is, your role (if it is what I think it is) is not a secret anymore Hyram. Even though you did not clearly claimed, you have given enough hints to paint a target on your face.
As for Cyan… is he scum or miller ? I really don't know. I could see him as both. The only problem I have with this claim is how convenient it is, in this specific case.
Now the "new suspects" are Annorax and Lightster. Lightster… I don't think he is scum. I found nothing scummy in what he did or said and I tend to agree with him a lot. If he is scum, he is playing admirably.
This is not the case however with Annorax. He justified his vote on Pod by saying he agreed with Salubrious, who himself made a poor justification for his own vote ("For your scummy behavior (already expounded upon by other players) and diversionary tactics, I'm going to have to Vote: Pod." [or in other words : "others have said you were scummy, so I vote for you even though I have no real argument"]). This was only a day (in real time) and one short post by Pod (where he voted Salubrious) that Annorax came from "I don't want to lynch Pod because he might just be an idiot" to "Pod is scum". Of course, it is possible that his change of mind came from a relecture of the thread, but then, why would he justify his vote by Salubrious' vote ?
Early in Day 2, he stated again that he voted because of Salubrious, and then FoSed him "for giving us information that led to the death of a townie." What information ? I fail to see any information in post #225 (except perhaps the list he took from Wikipedia, but he did not use it as an argument against Pod).
Then Hyram appeared and started fighting against Cyan. He repeated against Hyram the argument made by Cyan (how strange it is for Hyram to go from "I'm the newbiest ever" to "I know what a pbpa is", how Hyram could not not have editted his post on purpose, how Hyram would have been modkilled if he wasn't scum (which is not sure, although only Peregrine can tell, and he understandably did not answer any question about it) etc), and said Cyan was looking scummy, but never said why, and did so only after several people had already stated it (that Cyan looked scummy). He never made a serious, logical argument against either Cyan or Hyram. UnVote, UnFoS everyone, Vote : Annorax, FoS : Salubrious.
I don't think that Annorax nor Lightster are really 'targets' right now. Why should they be? Because Hyram said so? He didn't give any reasons for saying so, he just stated 'for reasons previously stated'(which I don't recall seeing). I'm interested in Hyram explaining. I stillthink Hyram is our best target, and just randomly mentioned Annorax and Lightster out of desperation. You do raise alot of valid points about Annorax, which is unfortunate because Hyram can just barn them now in response to my question to him on my last post, but, I don't think that's enough for a vote, especially not when Hyram's play has been soooooooo scummy. I mean, honestly, between fabrication aggression from myself against SP, selectively editting what Salubrious said to make it look really damaging against me without being damaging against anyone else, not even seeming to entertain the idea that he should claim when he thought he was at 4 votes, alluding to a power role without actually coming out and saying anything, barning off of everyone else's role-claims, repeatedly fishing for information including suggesting that everyone reveal their role, randomly mentioning Count Chocula *repeatedly*...I just don't see how anyone can not see him as scummy. Well, I do, really..he alluded to a power role, and people believe him, even though that is a major bad play on his part, and an even worse play on our part to just take his word on it when he never even specified which role. Also, please note, none of this is intended to try and get any information out of Hyram, the moment for that has passed, considering that he's only at 2 votes now...it's just all reasons that he is scummy, and they're all different. My vote stays where it is...though I'm very interested in seeing Annorax response to your post, because you're right that he has essentially bandwagoned every vote he's placed since he started.
The more I think of it, the more I think Hyram is not scum, but just made a (really) bad play. The reason why he attacked Cyan for meaningless reasons is easily understandable, and it is also easily understandable why Hyram prepared a cunning plan to lynch a (seemingly) scum without having to reveal himself. The problem is, your role (if it is what I think it is) is not a secret anymore Hyram. Even though you did not clearly claimed, you have given enough hints to paint a target on your face.
As for Cyan… is he scum or miller ? I really don't know. I could see him as both. The only problem I have with this claim is how convenient it is, in this specific case.
Now the "new suspects" are Annorax and Lightster. Lightster… I don't think he is scum. I found nothing scummy in what he did or said and I tend to agree with him a lot. If he is scum, he is playing admirably.
This is not the case however with Annorax. He justified his vote on Pod by saying he agreed with Salubrious, who himself made a poor justification for his own vote ("For your scummy behavior (already expounded upon by other players) and diversionary tactics, I'm going to have to Vote: Pod." [or in other words : "others have said you were scummy, so I vote for you even though I have no real argument"]). This was only a day (in real time) and one short post by Pod (where he voted Salubrious) that Annorax came from "I don't want to lynch Pod because he might just be an idiot" to "Pod is scum". Of course, it is possible that his change of mind came from a relecture of the thread, but then, why would he justify his vote by Salubrious' vote ?
Early in Day 2, he stated again that he voted because of Salubrious, and then FoSed him "for giving us information that led to the death of a townie." What information ? I fail to see any information in post #225 (except perhaps the list he took from Wikipedia, but he did not use it as an argument against Pod).
Then Hyram appeared and started fighting against Cyan. He repeated against Hyram the argument made by Cyan (how strange it is for Hyram to go from "I'm the newbiest ever" to "I know what a pbpa is", how Hyram could not not have editted his post on purpose, how Hyram would have been modkilled if he wasn't scum (which is not sure, although only Peregrine can tell, and he understandably did not answer any question about it) etc), and said Cyan was looking scummy, but never said why, and did so only after several people had already stated it (that Cyan looked scummy). He never made a serious, logical argument against either Cyan or Hyram. UnVote, UnFoS everyone, Vote : Annorax, FoS : Salubrious.
Now that I have time to actually write something that makes sense:
I'm in several games at the moment, including other forums, and haven't really had time to put together the long, thought out posts that most of you tend to make. Salubrious initially made sense, and because of that sense I voted for Pod. When Pod turned up town, I realized that something was amiss and Salubrious was either insanely wrong or scum. He hasn't really put off any other major scum tells, so I'm satisfied letting that go for now. IGMEOY: Salubrious.
I didn't want to admit to re-reading the thread and getting a different set of tells from it the second time. Justifying the vote for Pod using Salubrious' reasons was just lazy on my part, and I should've taken the time to explain my reasoning. This is why I linked to the wrong post: I didn't take the time to find the right one. Sue me for being in god knows how many games at once.
Also, replacing a player in a game already in progress is infinitely tougher than starting a game because not only do you have to quickly get reads on what the other players are doing and saying, you also have to try to get reads on what the person you replaced had reads and tells on. As hard as I tried, I just couldn't get into a Nymphe mindset, so I'm missing some info there. I had next to no info to go on, so I just latched onto the first scum tell I noticed and bandwagoned from there. I was wrong about Pod, as it turned out that he wasn't scum, just a n00b. Hyram's been putting off the same kind of game image*, but he's been leaning toward scummy play lately more than n00bish play. I fully admit that I was going on a gut feeling and not much more when I voted Hyram at the beginning of day 2. Now that I have a little more information, I'm not 100% sure that Hyram is scum. It's highly likely, but like yesterday, I need to see more evidence before I put him in danger of actually being lynched. Unvote Hyram. NanoFoS: ZDS. GigaFoS: Hyram. Unfunk: Salubrious.
note to Fadeblue: please merge this with my last post
*I apologize for using poker terminology in a mafia game. I've been playing way too much poker lately. <__<
If you'd made that explanation while Hyram was actually in danger of being lynched, I'd buy it. But making it now, when he only has 2 votes anyway, it's obvious that you're just trying to appease ZDS and get his vote off of you.
Also, whether you're in 10 Mafia games or just 1, it's your responsibility to be commited to them, using 'I'm playing in alot of games' as a defense for bandwagoning/poor play is worse than claiming the noob defense.
Does any one else think it's interesting that Annorax's post was directed to aim attention at Sal and to divert attention away from the FOS he received from ZDS?
I think that he's attempting to bandwagon us against Sal to save his own skin.
Thus, I think there's two possible solutions to this quandry.
A.) He is mafizzle and knows Sal isn't.
B.) He is Townizzle and doesn't know what Sal is but wants to save his own skin.
This deserves a FOS - Annorax, and for good measure a UNFOS - Cyan.
With that done with, I think there is something to be said with Annorax's argument that he was a replacement. However, he has been here for a good half of the first day, so I don't think that at this juncture that argument holds much validity. Anything you're not picking up on now shouldn't be blamed on your newness to this game.
Personal opinion I guess..the noob defense at least carries a little validity, simply because it CAN be true from time to time(look at Pod, he's not going to play that horribly forever, it's just because he is new)...but the 'yeah I was too busy doing homework/working/scratching my ass with a laser from space/etc etc etc.' excuses bug the hell out of me, it's just irresponsible to sign up for a game if you're not sure you can give it the attention it requires/deserves. Also, the 'I always look scummy' one is a mixed bag...like there are some players that genuinely look scummy in every game they play. The problem is that you're probably going to get lynched alot playing this way, until people realize that you always play this way..you have to lose 3-4 games, at least, as town for this defense to ever be valid, and that seems pointless anyway.
I do not agree, I think the noob defense is worst than that, since using the noob defense is basically calling yourself stupid. (My top three "bad defense" being 1° the "don't worry, I always look scummy" defense, 2° the noob defense, and 3° the "I didn't have enough time to spend in this game, now I do" defense)
I agree, a defence shouldnt even be needed for the most part. If you dont play badly you wont be under suspicion. I played agressively, and made a huge mistake day one. *Being one of the leading causes of the pod wagon early game.* So, im taking a step back to take a more... objective view of the game.
Truthfully, Annorax, Cyan, ZDS, and Hyram to a smaller degree are suspicious to me.
Annorax: his total lack of a proper defence for his.. pretty awefully scummy play at points, and using many deflective, and just overall bad play decisions. His statement of "i was just going along with Sal." doesn't cut it.
Cyan: Scummy, very much so. Pushed Pod alot, pushed Hyram ALOT, and this time with no proper reason; no proper case. Hence for re-emphisis Unvote, Vote Cyan
ZDS: Agian, a principal proponent of the pod wagon. Agian, pushed agianst Hyram hard, also on the same weak grounds that Cyan used. When it became clear that there was no support he backed off, and started accusing Cyan, who he had been in agreement with up to that point.
Hyram: his defence isnt too good neither. His only defence was "It isnt in your best interests to kill me" Which i do find interesting; interesting in that everyone took it at face value... read newb 7 for knowledge on how to NOT react regarding accepting people's comments too easily.
That is all. FoS ZDS, Hyram, Annorax
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:confused2:Asian-obsessed Elitist
Nan says: there should be more asian people
Lord Rahl: i agree
Nan says: they need to **** more
Quote from Feuerdrache »
Feuerdrache says: but but but
Lord Rahl says: what?
Feuerdrache says: she's a negroe!
what about a full claim from Hyram? That would put his alluding of the power role into either certainty, counterclaim, or make what seems to be his main point more concrete. Given 3 mafia, I find it likely that they'll have picked up on it by now, especially since we're all referring to it, so its not like we're giving away extra information if he is what he is alluding to.
I think that a fullclaim from Hyram might allow us to eliminate one of our "big targets" for today and save us a lot of analysis and time.
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<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|It is Night 0. Night ends in 180 s (or when all choices are in). Submit actions to fadeblue
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
Lord Rahl, considering the entire like 10 posts you've bothered to make in this thread, did you even READ the case against Hyram? Obviously not. He is *ridiculously* scummy, for reasons that I have stated over and over, and that no one has bothered to deny, because no one can. The amount of scummy behavior he has given off is tremendous. If I hadn't mentioned it all before, repeatedly, I would just PBPA him for you, just so you could see it for yourself, since you apparently can't be bothered to actually read the thread/participate fully. The reason that he doesn't have more votes is because he alluded to being a town power role, and no one wants to take the risk of lynching that, and because it seems like he could just be awful at Mafia, like Pod was, and looking scummy because of that. It is NOT because I had 'no proper reason and no proper case'.
What *I* find interesting is the fact that you're barely active in the game, except to throw around votes that have no real reasoning behind them, and the fact that you keep going out of your way to incriminate myself and ZDS because of Pod, when you were a major player in that lynch as well...you bring up Pods lynch in almost all of your posts, trying to play up mine and ZDS involvement while playing down yours.
FOS Lord Rahl for suspicious lurking(plenty of activity Day 1, now hiding because of the Pod lynch) and for not bothering to read the pleothora of evidence against Hyram and claiming that there's no case against him but then FOSing Hyram anyway)
What *I* find interesting is the fact that you're barely active in the game, except to throw around votes that have no real reasoning behind them, and the fact that you keep going out of your way to incriminate myself and ZDS because of Pod, when you were a major player in that lynch as well...you bring up Pods lynch in almost all of your posts, trying to play up mine and ZDS involvement while playing down yours.
FOS Lord Rahl for suspicious lurking(plenty of activity Day 1, now hiding because of the Pod lynch) and for not bothering to read the pleothora of evidence against Hyram and claiming that there's no case against him but then FOSing Hyram anyway)
*AHEM!!!*
First off, day 1, i was pretty active thank you. IN The pod lynch yes.
I have reasoning behind what i do, i have voted twice... once for you, once for pod. Pod was lynched. I dont throw my votes around.
Second, I havent played down my role at all. Hell, read my blasted post I JUST MADE!
[quote=Lord Rahl]I played agressively, and made a huge mistake day one. *Being one of the leading causes of the pod wagon early game.* So, im taking a step back to take a more... objective view of the game.[/post]
And i didnt claim there was no case agianst hyram, just that compared to some others, his case is weaker. I told the town to NOT take what he says at face value... I just didn't go into too much detail about any of the four of you. "
Now, Lesson 1a) See students, what we have just witnessed is a case of deflection/Misrepresentation. To take the argument that one person makes agianst someone, and attempt to make it look like the person who did post is saying ALL the wrong things. It directs attention away from Player B, which hopefully, weakening the footing of player A.
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:confused2:Asian-obsessed Elitist
Nan says: there should be more asian people
Lord Rahl: i agree
Nan says: they need to **** more
Quote from Feuerdrache »
Feuerdrache says: but but but
Lord Rahl says: what?
Feuerdrache says: she's a negroe!
*AHEM!!!*
First off, day 1, i was pretty active thank you. IN The pod lynch yes.
[QUOTE]
I have reasoning behind what i do, i have voted twice... once for you, once for pod. Pod was lynched. I dont throw my votes around.
Lol, you don't throw your votes around. You voted me earlier with absolutely no explanation or even ATTEMPT at an explanation whatsoever. You're just like 'so yeah Vote Cyan'. Now, you TRY to explain it by saying that I voted Hyram with no case/no reasoning, which is absolutely not true. Even Hooga is calling for a full claim from Hyram..if there was no evidence against him, do you really think that would happen? Hooga is a hugely conservative player from what I've seen, for him to call for a full claim takes alot, I'd wager.
Second, I havent played down my role at all. Hell, read my blasted post I JUST MADE!
[quote=Lord Rahl]I played agressively, and made a huge mistake day one. *Being one of the leading causes of the pod wagon early game.* So, im taking a step back to take a more... objective view of the game.[/post]
Wow, you admitted what everyone knows anyway. How generous of you. My point is that you casually say 'yeah I was involved in Pods lynch...but oh I just made a mistake. But Cyan and ZDS, they must just be scummy..why? For being involved in the Pod lynch'. How hypocritical of you.
Also, when do you EVER 'take a step back to view things more objectively'? You are uber aggressive in absolutely every game you've ever played in, you said as much yourself multiple times. If you've 'taken a step back now', it's not because you're being more objective, it's because you're trying to hide from any scrutiny because you were a main player in Pod getting lynched. The fact that we're having this conversation just proves me right...you hid out on Day 2 to avoid attention, and jumped on my bandwagon with NO REASONING AT ALL as soon as it looked like you could safely come out of hiding. Now, your attempted reason is utterly BS, and you're trying to backpedal.
And i didnt claim there was no case agianst hyram, just that compared to some others, his case is weaker. I told the town to NOT take what he says at face value... I just didn't go into too much detail about any of the four of you. "
You didn't claim there was no case against Hyram? Let's take another look:
Quote from you »
Cyan: Scummy, very much so. Pushed Pod alot, pushed Hyram ALOT, and this time with no proper reason; no proper case.
Emphasis mine. You very clearly stated that there is no case against him, right there. You also say that people 'shouldn't take what he says at face value', without bothering to explain why.
Now, Lesson 1a) See students, what we have just witnessed is a case of deflection/Misrepresentation. To take the argument that one person makes agianst someone, and attempt to make it look like the person who did post is saying ALL the wrong things. It directs attention away from Player B, which hopefully, weakening the footing of player A.
You DID say all of the wrong things. What happened here is obvious IMO. You felt like you needed to lay low after Pod got lynched, and you did so for awhile..but you're an aggressive player and we all know it, and it was only a matter of time before you jumped back into the fray. Unfortunately, you did so with no real reasoning at first, and then when you tried to justify your vote against me, you used complete hypocrisy/craplogic to do so.
On top of all of that, you 'FOSed' everyone that the town has even the most remote suspicion of, yet, no one else. You're completely and utterly bandwagoning, just to make it look like you're siding w/ the town.
C) Both he and Sal are mafizzle and they are using the classic "let's accuse ourselves so if one of us is lynched, the other one will look better" strategy.
I think we can eliminate this possibility. As for the other two, the evidence we have can point either way, depending on how one looks at it. While exhibiting some suspicious behaviors, Annorax hasn't posted enough to merit lynching him. We don't wan't a repeat of the Pod lynch, which was rushed without us being able to fully examine the evidence.
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By kingcobweb and Goblinboy.
Official Elitist of [thread=40859][RBS][/thread]
Quote from kingcobweb »
I don't understand the purpose of gimmick accounts.
Umm... Does anyone else find this a tinsy bit scummy?
Quote from Hooga »
what about a full claim from Hyram? That would put his alluding of the power role into either certainty, counterclaim, or make what seems to be his main point more concrete. Given 3 mafia, I find it likely that they'll have picked up on it by now, especially since we're all referring to it, so its not like we're giving away extra information if he is what he is alluding to.
I think that a fullclaim from Hyram might allow us to eliminate one of our "big targets" for today and save us a lot of analysis and time.
If that doesn't FOS - Hooga, I'm not sure what will. Although IGMEOY - Annorax, but you haven't posted since I last did.
Umm... Does anyone else find this a tinsy bit scummy?
If that doesn't FOS - Hooga, I'm not sure what will. Although IGMEOY - Annorax, but you haven't posted since I last did.
You are the absolute last person to accuse anyone else of being scummy. Every action that you have taken today has been scummy. So much so, in fact, that it seems like alot of us are considering the notion that your play has been so scummy that you can't actually be scum, and must just be an atrociously awful player. Personally, I think that you took notes from when this exact same thing happened to Pod and are just using it to your advantage. Seriously, you've been worse than Pod could have dreamed of being...if you had acted this way on Day 1, you would have been lynched in like a millisecond..we're just leery making the same mistake twice, especially since a mis-lynch today puts us into lynch-or-lose tomorrow. The post that I'm responded to is just another example of your scumminess. The IRONY is that Hooga probably thinks that you're town, and just wants you to claim so that you can be 'cleared' and we can just start ignoring everything that you say, since, if you're not scum(and the only way you can prove this IMO is by claiming a power role and having it not get counterclaimed), you are one of the worst players ever by default.
IF you survive today, it will only be because you fully claim a power role(instead of this 'uhhh the town doesn't want me to die...half-claim crap) and it doesn't get counterclaimed.
This post should not be read to say that I want Hyram to claim, as that's not what I'm trying to say. I don't think he will do so anyway, as he obviously would have claimed when he thought he was at 4 votes if he thought his claim could keep him safe.
I don't see what's wrong with asking for a claim. If you are indeed power role, the mafia (unless they're really stupid) know about it. If you're not, then you've half-lied to the town and will have some explaining to do. The mafia doesn't really gain any extra info, the town does.
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<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|It is Night 0. Night ends in 180 s (or when all choices are in). Submit actions to fadeblue
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
No, it doesn't put any pressure on anyone. No one has tried to pressure him since his 'pseudo-claim', really. Yes, people think he is scummy still, but that is only because he is acting in a completely scummy fashion. Being town doesn't change whether or not you have acted in a certain manner, it just means he's not actually scum, no matter how much he acts that way.(Kokusho in Newb 7 is a good example of this, as is Loran in that game, and Pod in this game)
Ironically, the only people really pressuring him right now are you and Hooga...everyone else is trying to look into other avenues. And yes, I know that my vote is still on him. But we all know what he's going to claim, if/when he actually claims(I really don't see why he would, considering that he has 1 vote right now), I'm just waiting for it to happen as a formality before I unvote him.
I still want Hyram to explain why he didn't claim when he thought he was at 4 votes...most people would have claimed there in a millisecond, especially if they had a power role and claiming would clear them for the rest of the game. Instead he just alludes to alot of things. It's so suspicious that it's ridiculous..even being a new/bad player doesn't account for this, because he obviously read Day 1 when Pod claimed and knows how claiming goes.
First, Unfos: All because I'm holding onto my vote like precious treasure, and throwing my FoS around like confetti. Let's try and make these both mean a little bit more.
Quote from Hooga »
what about a full claim from Hyram? That would put his alluding of the power role into either certainty, counterclaim, or make what seems to be his main point more concrete. Given 3 mafia, I find it likely that they'll have picked up on it by now, especially since we're all referring to it, so its not like we're giving away extra information if he is what he is alluding to.
For what it matters, I'm sure that we have all caught on to the "I'm a power role, hint hint, nudge-nudge, wink-wink, a nod's as good as a shake to a blind bat" crap, but I don't know which role he is alluding to. I can make a guess at which of the 3 roles he's talking about, but I don't put any real belief behind it.
As such, I am not saying we should or should not force Hyram to claim, I am just saying that we should not based on this reasoning.
Quote from Hooga »
I think that a fullclaim from Hyram might allow us to eliminate one of our "big targets" for today and save us a lot of analysis and time.
If we were actually analyzing people, instead of just rapid back and forth commentary, this would probably ring true-er to my ears, Hooga. As it stands right now, I'm not even sure if it would eliminate a "big target" for us, as everyone seems fairly dedicated to Hyram acting super scummy today, though not everyone is so willing to believe this as to vote him.
Quote from Cyan »
Lord Rahl, considering the entire like 10 posts you've bothered to make in this thread...
Rahl has 28 to be specific, though specific bickering like that isn't the most productive. The part of this that interests me, is the recession of his posts in late Day 1, rather than the recent resurgance of them during day 2.
Quote from Annorax »
I'm in several games at the moment, including other forums, and haven't really had time to put together the long, thought out posts that most of you tend to make.
Long, thought out posts are you convince people. You make arguements, support it with reasons, and try to show why you're correct with what you are saying. This should be (and is, from what I have read) a general principal behind Mafia. When you just continually post short posts with little or no reasoning behind it, people tend to get suspicious. (Sound familiar much?)
Quote from Annorax »
Salubrious initially made sense, and because of that sense I voted for Pod. When Pod turned up town, I realized that something was amiss and Salubrious was either insanely wrong or scum. He hasn't really put off any other major scum tells, so I'm satisfied letting that go for now. IGMEOY: Salubrious.
Naw, really? A townie got lynched, and you think something went wrong? Everyone, listen to the next great messiah of Mafia! [/cynical smart-assness]
But really, this is why you're supposed to read the posts, and make your own analysis. If you can't convince yourself that someone is scum, don't lynch them. If you're thinking someone is scum because another person says they are, maybe you shouldn't vote. If you're a townie that is just following along voting whichever way people tell you to, you may as well be scum, since you are letting them lead you.
Quote from Annorax »
I didn't want to admit to re-reading the thread and getting a different set of tells from it the second time. Justifying the vote for Pod using Salubrious' reasons was just lazy on my part, and I should've taken the time to explain my reasoning. This is why I linked to the wrong post: I didn't take the time to find the right one. Sue me for being in god knows how many games at once.
What's wrong with admiting that you spent the time to re-read the thread? We all need to eventually, and you just joined the game that you weren't even watching, seems perfectly reasonable to need to read it multiple times. Being afraid to admit that you reread the thread seems suspicious, because it seems like you are just trying to avoid drawing attention to yourself for any reason. Rereading the thread is a sign of dedication, that you want your team to win. Does not mean that you are scum, nor town. But being afraid to draw attention in this manner, especially with someone so skilled that they can play multiple games of Mafia at once, seems like a real screw-up. Keeping mistakes like this from happening should be easy for a townie, and seems to me to be a real scum tell.
Quote from Annorax »
Also, replacing a player in a game already in progress is infinitely tougher than starting a game because not only do you have to quickly get reads on what the other players are doing and saying, you also have to try to get reads on what the person you replaced had reads and tells on. As hard as I tried, I just couldn't get into a Nymphe mindset, so I'm missing some info there. I had next to no info to go on, so I just latched onto the first scum tell I noticed and bandwagoned from there. I was wrong about Pod, as it turned out that he wasn't scum, just a n00b. Hyram's been putting off the same kind of game image*, but he's been leaning toward scummy play lately more than n00bish play. I fully admit that I was going on a gut feeling and not much more when I voted Hyram at the beginning of day 2. Now that I have a little more information, I'm not 100% sure that Hyram is scum. It's highly likely, but like yesterday, I need to see more evidence before I put him in danger of actually being lynched. Unvote Hyram. NanoFoS: ZDS. GigaFoS: Hyram. Unfunk: Salubrious.
Again with the voting for no reason. How can you be playing so many games at once, when you make so many retarded mistakes? I would think that playing this way would make you get lynched too quickly. Are you putting less effort into this game because it is a newb game? While I am sure we appreciate the sporting chance, it is far from nessecary. Learning is what this game is for, and you don't get better at anything by practicing at doing worse than your best.
And lastly, the one that is grabbing everyone's attention, and shunning it away at the same time...
Quote from Hyram »
Well, The ones that seem the most flighty from the list are Annorax and Lightster, who have both been FOS, for Scummish behaviour before.
And his next post...
Quote from Hyram »
Does any one else think it's interesting that Annorax's post was directed to aim attention at Sal and to divert attention away from the FOS he received from ZDS?
I think that he's attempting to bandwagon us against Sal to save his own skin.
Thus, I think there's two possible solutions to this quandry.
A.) He is mafizzle and knows Sal isn't.
B.) He is Townizzle and doesn't know what Sal is but wants to save his own skin.
This deserves a FOS - Annorax, and for good measure a UNFOS - Cyan.
With that done with, I think there is something to be said with Annorax's argument that he was a replacement. However, he has been here for a good half of the first day, so I don't think that at this juncture that argument holds much validity. Anything you're not picking up on now shouldn't be blamed on your newness to this game.
And the next one...
Quote from Hyram »
Umm... Does anyone else find this a tinsy bit scummy?
If that doesn't FOS - Hooga, I'm not sure what will. Although IGMEOY - Annorax, but you haven't posted since I last did.
Back up here, "buddy." Just what the hell were you accusing me of back there? I don't really care what you accuse me of, so long as you actually accuse me of it, and not just of something. I hardly think that being FoSed is grounds for anything, except possibly attention. Go ahead, PBPA me, I'd enjoy it. But all that I'm seeing here is you constantly flitting around, throwing blame. "Person A is scummy" or "Person be has to be scummy." And you had the audacity to call me flighty earlier? C'mon, give me a reason not to vote you. A seriously good reason not to vote you, as I have stated my opinion earlier about where I'm going when I vote someone.
I actually was particularily accusing you of anything. I was asked a question, and that was to draw my own analysis from my Vote/FOS list. I did, and what I deduced was a particular trend between you and Annorx of vote/fos hopping during the last portion of day 1. Although that is understandable given the circumstances of Day 1. By you previously scummy behaviour I ment what some people including myself, called your hiding of Cyan somewhat.
For now, my biggest suspects have shifted. I will take Cyan to his word at least for today. And I will keep the my FOS on Annorax. But I always suspected Lord Rahl of being scum. (43) However I did later retract my FOS and bandwagon against Pod. So FOS - Lord Rahl. I'd like to see Sal post more. There is little to go off of, and his posts generally go nowhere. So FOS - Salubrious.
I find it particularly interesting that you, whom advocated that EVERYONE name-claim, are now hedging when it's you that has to claim. It really seems like you have something to hide here. Please claim so that this can be proven/disproven.
Says that Pod refusing to claim is an auto-lynch, that anyone else who votes and it results in pods death = auto-lynched. And reiterates, yet agian, that his initial vote for Pod was for him being defensive. His urge to state this in nearly every post he has made since then Makes him seem defensive and... well. kinda scummy.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1027048&postcount=91
States the case agianst pod isnt that good, but still advocates it due to minor scum tells. Says that name claiming is pointless, but that he wants Pod to name claim. If you truly didnt know anything about the person, you would want to know as much as possible. A name claim doesn't help decide if you are town or scum... but you wouldn't need to know that if you're scum would you? A name claim can be used to make a person look scummier then they are before the roles come out.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1027080&postcount=93
Says that Hyram has to be unable to unvote to make his punishment fair. Says that at 3, its too early and you look scummy. States that hyram being unable to vote sucks for pod, but is a good punishment for Hyram.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1031710&postcount=150
Says that a Back-up Doc is silly, *later claims miller* Says that the 20 min gap between Pods posts saying he'd claim was suspicious. Easy to fake role the Back-up doc is. *Easier to fake then a miller? Someone who will ALWAYS turn up scummy?*
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1033850&postcount=175
Says that Pod was using a scum tactic to get people to unvote him by nearly speed lynching himself. Says that pod has a bad claim that is impossible to validate. Seems like he is trying to speed the day up a fair bit.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1035261&postcount=185
SAys that it's never in the towns favour to end the say *Contrary to how he was action in the past 5 posts. Says that unless they are for sure with a scum, that its not a good idea, but they had one who slipped away.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1035771&postcount=190
Justifies the vote agianst Pod, pushes him yet agian, and says that he isnt trying to convince people to vote for popd *if not, why would you CONSTANTLY bring up the pod case?*
Continues to say that IF a person could be lynched but isnt, that they rarely get examined agian.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1030652&postcount=144
Says the Scum getting scum lynched plan is horrible and shouldnt be concidered when determining if someone is scum or not. *Suspicious to me as it IS a worthwhile plan, and has won people games. Such as Sin City.*
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1032480&postcount=166
SAys that he doesnt want to explain the plan of his. And goes on to explain that Pods massive piece of WIFOM *It truly was a massive piece of craplogic -_-* doesnt make sense, makes him look scummier, unfunks and unfos's everyone.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1033901&postcount=176
Says that He doesnt think pod will survive the day, but that he is suspicious of the lurkers. That eventually, we will lynch pod, but we need time to analyze the day *makes him seem a slight bit less scummy in my eyes; is a very townie thing to say*
My complete scum list :
1 —*Pod (weak claim, flavor doesn't fit, WIFOM like you've never seen before etc.)
2 —*Hyram, Nymphe (lurking, although in Hyram's case he doesn't really have a choice, only contentless posts, and Nymphe is a bit too defensive when I call him "nympho". Nymphe needs to post something more…*hmm…*helpful. And I expect Hyram to give us an analysis of whatever he wants at the beginning of day 2.)
3 —*Cyan, Lord Rahl, ZeDorkSlipeur (the most frequent posters, the most aggressive players, and all three will look relatively bad if Pod is lynched and not scum.)
4 —*Everyone else (not much to say at the moment.)
For the moment, FoS : Nymphe (<-- could have been a vote in a different situation) and I suggest we take a deeper look at him. But please let us not forget Pod is still here and is still a very good candidate for lynching.
And thats where im going to stop for the moment, i have gone through half the game for 4 players *one of which who doesn't exist, hence the lack of anything in his column.* I shall continue this soon, but my mind's going a bit wonky. Ill finish the other half of the thread soon. It's a hefty endevour, so please be patient. I Am trying to justify what i have said so far.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
:confused2:Asian-obsessed Elitist
Nan says: there should be more asian people
Lord Rahl: i agree
Nan says: they need to **** more
Quote from Feuerdrache »
Feuerdrache says: but but but
Lord Rahl says: what?
Feuerdrache says: she's a negroe!
There is something I have to clarify about the desire I had to lynch Pod. I did believe Pod was scum, but I also knew that his death would be a perfect way to check the validity of my "Cunning Plan". Since he is town, it proves that my plan could/was not working, so I simply abandoned it. But until I could know whether it would work or not, I had to stick with it.
You misunderstood me. What shouldn't be considered when determining if someone is scum or not is not the "scum getting scum lynched plan", it is if this person got a scum lynched or not. In other words, voting and arguing against a scum will not make anyone look more town-like, in my opinion. This is why I think the "scum getting scum lynched plan" is stupid, because if arguing against a scum would clear someone, then half the town would be cleared after each right lynch. It can only be a worthwhile plan if the players using it are experimented enough to be convincing, and/or the other players are gullible enough to be convinced.
Also, nothing to say about Nymphe/Annorax ?
Okay, i must admit you are accquitting yourself well so far. Atleast you made certian things make more sense.
Regarding Nymphe and Annorax, Nymphe has had like 6 posts so far where i am in the thread, all pointless. The few things that he has said, i see quite literally, 0 point in holding Annorax accountable for at this present moment.
I AM suspicious that as someone said earlier
Nymphe seems like a newb mafia who is trying to do things, has things to say, but has no idea how to go about it, and hence is staying quiet
*not quite sure who said that, and its not exact wording, an approximation.* That does fit how Nymphe was acting to a degree, and Annorax's activities so far are quite questionable in many ways. Hence my FOS on him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
:confused2:Asian-obsessed Elitist
Nan says: there should be more asian people
Lord Rahl: i agree
Nan says: they need to **** more
Quote from Feuerdrache »
Feuerdrache says: but but but
Lord Rahl says: what?
Feuerdrache says: she's a negroe!
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@Hyram:
My claim doesn't affect your ability to claim. Your role, if you actually have one, is your role, and is independent of me/my role. Also, I wish you would stop alluding to being cop. I'm not advocating that you claim right now, because you're not at 4 votes, and don't really need to do so. I'm not 'eager' for you to claim, nor have I ever been so, honestly. I brought it up previously for reasons that I explained previously, but, will explain again. When you are 1 vote from lynch, as you thought you were, then you claim. There is no reason to wait for people to say 'claim', because no one is going to do anything until you do so anyway. I didn't really understand claiming/why it's important etc. in my first game, but, it makes more sense to me now. As you can see in any Mafia game, alot of mis-lynches happen, and the claiming aspect of the game allows the town to minimize these mis-lynches to some degree(as town, you generally err on the side of caution when it comes to questionable claims..if someone is scum and gotten themself to that point, they will probably do so in the future as well)..but if you lynch a townie, you go to night, which means that another townie is likely to die as well.
You're also alluding to being cereal now as well, along with possibly being a power role. Your play is so scummy that it makes me sad
Also, the statement 'IE Are we all cereal' just seems like fishing for everyone to give out role information..and we all know that a statement/request like this is a large part of why Pod got lynched...more scumminess.
Can you explain WHY your posting style changed so much, Hyram? I can explain mine.
Going into night, I knew that someone was going to immediately try to finger me as soon as the day started, and that person was likely to be Mafia, because I'm the 'low fruit on the tree' because of the disaster with Pod. So, I was expecting that. And on top of that, you keep/kept trying to make up stuff/use misleading information to make me look more guilty, which is very much a Mafia play(spreading confusion and disinformation, etc)..so I was pretty thoroughly convinced that you were Mafia just after the first post, considering the Pod thing, and then the fact that you tried to pin responsibility for SP on me, which was totally ridiculous, since I was never aggressive towards him at all. To me, these things said 'Mafia' very loudly, and the more you've posted today, the more and more you seem scummy. Maaaaaaaybe it's just Pod part 2, but, that seems like impossible to me.
I'm obviously not cleared, but I have a little breathing room since ZDS unvoted..I am positive that alot of information can be gained off of looking at how people responding to Hyram vs. myself...so that's what I'm going to do today(real life day, not mafia day), is go over how everyone responded. I think it'd be a good idea for everyone to do this, but obviously,(WIFOM) I'm going to be happy with any suggestion that gets some pressure off of me.
FOS: Cyan The whole point of being Miller is that the person doesn't know they are one. That way, confusion ensues when a cop investigates a Miller and pronounces them scum. Also:
Vigilante, Back-up doc and cop, role blocker, and even Mason ... but no Miller. It seems like an unreasonable role for a Newb Game. However, Peregrine_Falcon has shown he doesn't mod the "ordinary" way, so I'm open to the possibility that he is a Miller.
Why obviously? All we have so far is a dead back-up doc and a guy claiming to be Miller. That doesn't prove anything. Or are you being sarcastic?
By kingcobweb and Goblinboy.
Official Elitist of [thread=40859][RBS][/thread]
(bolding mine)
Yea, I'm pretty ZDS is being serious here guys. Like, cmon, why wouldn't there be a cult leader and SK? [/sarcasm]
More seriously* I'm sort of inclined to agree with you there ZDS, it's not like we have a reason to believe there wouldn't be a miller... and I sorta believe his explanation.
FOS: Cyan The whole point of being Miller is that the person doesn't know they are one. That way, confusion ensues when a cop investigates a Miller and pronounces them scum.
Riiight... And don't you think him claiming miller right now isn't producing enough confusion? And it gives him a shield from investigation, making it impossible to default to just "Oh, the cop said he was scum" to lynch him.
Well, from those 4 slots, I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to also include a back-up cop, and a vig. Thus, if Cyan's claim is true, that gives us a miller, leaving us with... 1 vanilla. :/
Though 2 vanilla's (3 if you count the miller) in a newb game is kinda odd, this just keeps piling on in how PF is trying to make this interesting for us.
Extendo
This depends on the setup and the mod. The bot in #mafia sends role PMs that inform the player that they are, in fact, a miller. I've seen forum games that tell players they're millers.
Whether Cyan really would know if he's a miller or not can truly only be answered by the mod. Since that's one of those things that would destabilize the game, I'm just going to FOS Cyan again and wait to see what comes of it.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
And ZDS, a SK and a Cult Leader? Where the heck did you pull those from? The possibility that we would have a SK and a Cult Leader and possibly only 1 or 2 vanilla townies in a newb game is, IMO, 0.
-_-
EBWODP: ah, sorry ZDS, your post totally ninja'd mine, ignore that last paragraph
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
That is not always the case(that the Miller doesn't know), it depends on the Mod. PF has clearly shown that he likes to go against the grain, so far. Also, the newb rules don't generally include a Miller, it's true...so think about it..if PF edited the rules to include the possibility of a miller, it would be a ridiculously huge giveaway, right? It is much more clever and ingenius this way. Plus, it's a noob game, it stands to reason that things are going to be more cut and dry than under normal circumstances. I honestly had never heard of a Miller before I received my role PM. PF has done alot to make this game interesting, it shouldn't really be surprising that there are roles that normally do not appear. Also, like I said, the existence of a backup doc, IMO, indicates the likely existence of a backup cop...and having essentially 2 cops heavily detracts from game balance..adding a Miller balances that out a little bit, at least, in my opinion. There could be a couple of Masons as well..who really knows...it certainly makes for a more interesting game than in Noob 7.
Anyway, aside from that..I'm Grape Nuts...it's hard to imagine a situation where Grape Nuts could be scum, IMO.
3 Hyram (Cyan, Annorax, ZeDorkSlipeur)
3 Cyan (Mosschop, Hooga, Lord rahl)
3 Not Voting (Salubrious, Hyram, Lightster)
FOS Count: It Could Happen to You!
1 Salubrious (Annorax)
5 Hyram (ZeDorkSlipeur, +2 Annorax, Lightster, Lord Rahl)
12 Cyan (Hyram, Lord rahl, +3 Annorax, ZeDorkSlipeur, ZeDorkSlipeur x3, +2 Lightster, Salubrious)
3 ZeDorkSlipeur (+2 Lord rahl, Lightster)
2 Lightster (Mosschop, Annorax)
1 Lord rahl (Lightster)
Funk Count: The best new game mechanic since Kicker
1 Peregrine Falcon (Peregrine Falcon)
1 Salubrious (Annorax)
1 ZeDorkSlipeur (Hyram)
1 Mosschop (Hyram)
Eyes Gotten On
1 ZeDorkSlipeur (Lightster)
Click my sig (made by Grey) and get your own!
Quoted for truthery. The chance of all of those rules being in the game is indeed zero. IMHO the chance of one or two nonbasic roles being in the game for flavor's sake is, while not a favorite, still non-zero. There is most definitely no cult, and I'd say the chance of a SK is close enough to 0 that it's probably not worth considering, but the chance of a miller isn't zero. It's definitely low, and I'm not sure if a way to test Cyan's claim other than lynching is in the game, but miller is an uncomplicated role with little potential to confuse anyone but the most feeble-minded. If I were modding a newbie game and trying to find a way to make it more interesting and give newbies a glimpse at what more advanced games are like, a miller is probably one of the ways I'd do that.
God, I sound like MaRo at core set article time. Someone take the alcohol away....
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
McDonalds?
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
It can happen. Hyram's probably an Egg McMuffin about to triple all of our cholesterol and kill us with fat.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
I wanted to mention that(about Hyram scummily fishing for info again) but it seems pointless, and I feel like I have to watch everything that I say ridiculously carefully now. Glad to see someone else bring it up though.
Correct me if I'm wrong... but you just claimed scum/Count Chocula?
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
I just don't see the point in this kind of discussion in a game where all the roles are "vanilla" roles. Its doubtful it will help the town any, and if it happens that the mafia didn't know something then it obviously brings it into the open.
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
Scum has a reason to try to speed the town up into a lynch. The town has no reason to speed anything up. We apparently need more information. You're scum, that much is obvious. Cyan may or may not be your scum buddy, I'm leaning toward "may", but don't want to hammer him (or anyone) without damning evidence.
Stop the dancing around the truth and claim already, scumbag.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
I don't think he was trying to speed up a lynch here, this just looks like someone actually pointing out how we stalled. For instance, I got back from my DIS release activities just now, and sat down at my computer, and was all like "When was the last time I looked at the Mafia thread, much less posted?"
I'll post again when I think I have something to contribute... which will hopefully be before I go to bed tonight...
Extendo
I'd like to point out your obvious attempts to speed up a lynch.
EDBWOP - Because I think thats a bit short.
I don't particularily think we have alot to go off of right now. So, I'll be back with a second day vote history that updates the one LIghtster made, in a bit.
As promised updated FOS/Vote list.
FOS
45 - PF CLEARS UP THE FUNK
54 - Sal -> Rahl
57 - Lightster -> ZDS
73 - Pod -> Hyram
75 - Lightster -> Hyram
84 - Sal -> Rahl
95 - Lightster -> Pod
109 - ZDS -> Rahl
ZDS -> Sal
115 - ZDS -> Pod
121 - Rahl -> Pod
137 - SP -> Rahl
140 - ZDS -> SP
169 - POD -> Sal
188 - MC -> Pod
MC -> Cyan
191 - Lightster -> Nymphe
218 - SP -> Pod
219 - AN -> Pod
231 - ZDS -> Cyan
239 - PF DECLARES POD LYNCHED
241 - PF DECLARES SP NKED
DAY 2
244 - Lightster -> AN
245 - AN -> Sal
246 - ZDS -> Hyram
247 - Hyram -> Cyan
258 - LordRahl ->ZDS
258 - LordRahl ->Cyan
261 - Annorax ->Hyram
261 - Annorax ->Cyan
263 - Annorax ->Hyram
264 - ZDS ->Cyan
266 - MC ->Cyan
268 - Annorax ->Cyan
268 - Annorax ->Lightster
269 - ZDS ->Cyan
273 - PFalcon - Vote Count
282 - Lightster -> Cyan
282 - Lightster -> Hooga
282 - Lightster -> Hyram
287 - LordRahl ->Hyram
287 - LordRahl ->ZDS
290 - CYAN CLAIM
291 - Lighster ->LordRahl
298 - Sal ->Cyan
305 - PFalcon - Vote Count
VOTE
45 - PF CLEARS UP THE FUNK
65 - Hooga -> Pod
83 - Rahl -> Pod
84 - Sal -> MC
109 - ZDS -> Pod
110 - Pod -> Rahl
127 - Pod -> SP
157 - Pod -> Pod
193 - Cyan -> Nymphe
196 - Pod -> Nymphe
209 - Hooga -> Sal
220 - SP -> Pod
227 - Pod -> Sal
229 - AN -> Pod
232 - Cyan -> ZDS
233 - Hooga -> Pod
239 - PF DECLARES POD LYNCHED
241 - PF DECLARES SP NKED
DAY 2
249 - Cyan -> Hyram
266 - Mosschop -> Cyan
268 - Annorax ->Hyram
269 - ZDS ->Hyram
273 - PFalcon - Vote Count
278 - Hooga ->Cyan
283 - ZDS ->Cyan
287 - LordRahl ->Cyan
290 - CYAN CLAIM
305 - PFalcon - Vote Count
It's not like that was the only thing I said. I did find the arguments against Pod convincing, but I had other reasons as well. (mentioned in my post)
Now, I don't want to imply anything about Annorax, but IF he was scum, his actions would have been a good mafia play. As the scum knows who is mafia and who is town (I'm assuming there's no SK in this game), it would be easy to vote for X based on Y's "analysis" and then the next day attack Y for trying to start a bandwagon on X ("I trusted you!"). However, none of that means that Annorax is mafia, and I don't think there's enough evidence for a vote against him yet.
By kingcobweb and Goblinboy.
Official Elitist of [thread=40859][RBS][/thread]
I don't think that Annorax nor Lightster are really 'targets' right now. Why should they be? Because Hyram said so? He didn't give any reasons for saying so, he just stated 'for reasons previously stated'(which I don't recall seeing). I'm interested in Hyram explaining. I stillthink Hyram is our best target, and just randomly mentioned Annorax and Lightster out of desperation. You do raise alot of valid points about Annorax, which is unfortunate because Hyram can just barn them now in response to my question to him on my last post, but, I don't think that's enough for a vote, especially not when Hyram's play has been soooooooo scummy. I mean, honestly, between fabrication aggression from myself against SP, selectively editting what Salubrious said to make it look really damaging against me without being damaging against anyone else, not even seeming to entertain the idea that he should claim when he thought he was at 4 votes, alluding to a power role without actually coming out and saying anything, barning off of everyone else's role-claims, repeatedly fishing for information including suggesting that everyone reveal their role, randomly mentioning Count Chocula *repeatedly*...I just don't see how anyone can not see him as scummy. Well, I do, really..he alluded to a power role, and people believe him, even though that is a major bad play on his part, and an even worse play on our part to just take his word on it when he never even specified which role. Also, please note, none of this is intended to try and get any information out of Hyram, the moment for that has passed, considering that he's only at 2 votes now...it's just all reasons that he is scummy, and they're all different. My vote stays where it is...though I'm very interested in seeing Annorax response to your post, because you're right that he has essentially bandwagoned every vote he's placed since he started.
Now that I have time to actually write something that makes sense:
I'm in several games at the moment, including other forums, and haven't really had time to put together the long, thought out posts that most of you tend to make. Salubrious initially made sense, and because of that sense I voted for Pod. When Pod turned up town, I realized that something was amiss and Salubrious was either insanely wrong or scum. He hasn't really put off any other major scum tells, so I'm satisfied letting that go for now. IGMEOY: Salubrious.
I didn't want to admit to re-reading the thread and getting a different set of tells from it the second time. Justifying the vote for Pod using Salubrious' reasons was just lazy on my part, and I should've taken the time to explain my reasoning. This is why I linked to the wrong post: I didn't take the time to find the right one. Sue me for being in god knows how many games at once.
Also, replacing a player in a game already in progress is infinitely tougher than starting a game because not only do you have to quickly get reads on what the other players are doing and saying, you also have to try to get reads on what the person you replaced had reads and tells on. As hard as I tried, I just couldn't get into a Nymphe mindset, so I'm missing some info there. I had next to no info to go on, so I just latched onto the first scum tell I noticed and bandwagoned from there. I was wrong about Pod, as it turned out that he wasn't scum, just a n00b. Hyram's been putting off the same kind of game image*, but he's been leaning toward scummy play lately more than n00bish play. I fully admit that I was going on a gut feeling and not much more when I voted Hyram at the beginning of day 2. Now that I have a little more information, I'm not 100% sure that Hyram is scum. It's highly likely, but like yesterday, I need to see more evidence before I put him in danger of actually being lynched. Unvote Hyram. NanoFoS: ZDS. GigaFoS: Hyram. Unfunk: Salubrious.
note to Fadeblue: please merge this with my last post
*I apologize for using poker terminology in a mafia game. I've been playing way too much poker lately. <__<
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
If you'd made that explanation while Hyram was actually in danger of being lynched, I'd buy it. But making it now, when he only has 2 votes anyway, it's obvious that you're just trying to appease ZDS and get his vote off of you.
Also, whether you're in 10 Mafia games or just 1, it's your responsibility to be commited to them, using 'I'm playing in alot of games' as a defense for bandwagoning/poor play is worse than claiming the noob defense.
I think that he's attempting to bandwagon us against Sal to save his own skin.
Thus, I think there's two possible solutions to this quandry.
A.) He is mafizzle and knows Sal isn't.
B.) He is Townizzle and doesn't know what Sal is but wants to save his own skin.
This deserves a FOS - Annorax, and for good measure a UNFOS - Cyan.
With that done with, I think there is something to be said with Annorax's argument that he was a replacement. However, he has been here for a good half of the first day, so I don't think that at this juncture that argument holds much validity. Anything you're not picking up on now shouldn't be blamed on your newness to this game.
I agree, a defence shouldnt even be needed for the most part. If you dont play badly you wont be under suspicion. I played agressively, and made a huge mistake day one. *Being one of the leading causes of the pod wagon early game.* So, im taking a step back to take a more... objective view of the game.
Truthfully, Annorax, Cyan, ZDS, and Hyram to a smaller degree are suspicious to me.
Annorax: his total lack of a proper defence for his.. pretty awefully scummy play at points, and using many deflective, and just overall bad play decisions. His statement of "i was just going along with Sal." doesn't cut it.
Cyan: Scummy, very much so. Pushed Pod alot, pushed Hyram ALOT, and this time with no proper reason; no proper case. Hence for re-emphisis Unvote, Vote Cyan
ZDS: Agian, a principal proponent of the pod wagon. Agian, pushed agianst Hyram hard, also on the same weak grounds that Cyan used. When it became clear that there was no support he backed off, and started accusing Cyan, who he had been in agreement with up to that point.
Hyram: his defence isnt too good neither. His only defence was "It isnt in your best interests to kill me" Which i do find interesting; interesting in that everyone took it at face value... read newb 7 for knowledge on how to NOT react regarding accepting people's comments too easily.
That is all. FoS ZDS, Hyram, Annorax
I think that a fullclaim from Hyram might allow us to eliminate one of our "big targets" for today and save us a lot of analysis and time.
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
What *I* find interesting is the fact that you're barely active in the game, except to throw around votes that have no real reasoning behind them, and the fact that you keep going out of your way to incriminate myself and ZDS because of Pod, when you were a major player in that lynch as well...you bring up Pods lynch in almost all of your posts, trying to play up mine and ZDS involvement while playing down yours.
FOS Lord Rahl for suspicious lurking(plenty of activity Day 1, now hiding because of the Pod lynch) and for not bothering to read the pleothora of evidence against Hyram and claiming that there's no case against him but then FOSing Hyram anyway)
*AHEM!!!*
First off, day 1, i was pretty active thank you. IN The pod lynch yes.
I have reasoning behind what i do, i have voted twice... once for you, once for pod. Pod was lynched. I dont throw my votes around.
Second, I havent played down my role at all. Hell, read my blasted post I JUST MADE!
[quote=Lord Rahl]I played agressively, and made a huge mistake day one. *Being one of the leading causes of the pod wagon early game.* So, im taking a step back to take a more... objective view of the game.[/post]
And i didnt claim there was no case agianst hyram, just that compared to some others, his case is weaker. I told the town to NOT take what he says at face value... I just didn't go into too much detail about any of the four of you. "
Now, Lesson 1a) See students, what we have just witnessed is a case of deflection/Misrepresentation. To take the argument that one person makes agianst someone, and attempt to make it look like the person who did post is saying ALL the wrong things. It directs attention away from Player B, which hopefully, weakening the footing of player A.
Lol, you don't throw your votes around. You voted me earlier with absolutely no explanation or even ATTEMPT at an explanation whatsoever. You're just like 'so yeah Vote Cyan'. Now, you TRY to explain it by saying that I voted Hyram with no case/no reasoning, which is absolutely not true. Even Hooga is calling for a full claim from Hyram..if there was no evidence against him, do you really think that would happen? Hooga is a hugely conservative player from what I've seen, for him to call for a full claim takes alot, I'd wager.
Wow, you admitted what everyone knows anyway. How generous of you. My point is that you casually say 'yeah I was involved in Pods lynch...but oh I just made a mistake. But Cyan and ZDS, they must just be scummy..why? For being involved in the Pod lynch'. How hypocritical of you.
Also, when do you EVER 'take a step back to view things more objectively'? You are uber aggressive in absolutely every game you've ever played in, you said as much yourself multiple times. If you've 'taken a step back now', it's not because you're being more objective, it's because you're trying to hide from any scrutiny because you were a main player in Pod getting lynched. The fact that we're having this conversation just proves me right...you hid out on Day 2 to avoid attention, and jumped on my bandwagon with NO REASONING AT ALL as soon as it looked like you could safely come out of hiding. Now, your attempted reason is utterly BS, and you're trying to backpedal.
You didn't claim there was no case against Hyram? Let's take another look:
Emphasis mine. You very clearly stated that there is no case against him, right there. You also say that people 'shouldn't take what he says at face value', without bothering to explain why.
You DID say all of the wrong things. What happened here is obvious IMO. You felt like you needed to lay low after Pod got lynched, and you did so for awhile..but you're an aggressive player and we all know it, and it was only a matter of time before you jumped back into the fray. Unfortunately, you did so with no real reasoning at first, and then when you tried to justify your vote against me, you used complete hypocrisy/craplogic to do so.
On top of all of that, you 'FOSed' everyone that the town has even the most remote suspicion of, yet, no one else. You're completely and utterly bandwagoning, just to make it look like you're siding w/ the town.
I think we can eliminate this possibility. As for the other two, the evidence we have can point either way, depending on how one looks at it. While exhibiting some suspicious behaviors, Annorax hasn't posted enough to merit lynching him. We don't wan't a repeat of the Pod lynch, which was rushed without us being able to fully examine the evidence.
By kingcobweb and Goblinboy.
Official Elitist of [thread=40859][RBS][/thread]
If that doesn't FOS - Hooga, I'm not sure what will. Although IGMEOY - Annorax, but you haven't posted since I last did.
You are the absolute last person to accuse anyone else of being scummy. Every action that you have taken today has been scummy. So much so, in fact, that it seems like alot of us are considering the notion that your play has been so scummy that you can't actually be scum, and must just be an atrociously awful player. Personally, I think that you took notes from when this exact same thing happened to Pod and are just using it to your advantage. Seriously, you've been worse than Pod could have dreamed of being...if you had acted this way on Day 1, you would have been lynched in like a millisecond..we're just leery making the same mistake twice, especially since a mis-lynch today puts us into lynch-or-lose tomorrow. The post that I'm responded to is just another example of your scumminess. The IRONY is that Hooga probably thinks that you're town, and just wants you to claim so that you can be 'cleared' and we can just start ignoring everything that you say, since, if you're not scum(and the only way you can prove this IMO is by claiming a power role and having it not get counterclaimed), you are one of the worst players ever by default.
IF you survive today, it will only be because you fully claim a power role(instead of this 'uhhh the town doesn't want me to die...half-claim crap) and it doesn't get counterclaimed.
This post should not be read to say that I want Hyram to claim, as that's not what I'm trying to say. I don't think he will do so anyway, as he obviously would have claimed when he thought he was at 4 votes if he thought his claim could keep him safe.
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
Ironically, the only people really pressuring him right now are you and Hooga...everyone else is trying to look into other avenues. And yes, I know that my vote is still on him. But we all know what he's going to claim, if/when he actually claims(I really don't see why he would, considering that he has 1 vote right now), I'm just waiting for it to happen as a formality before I unvote him.
I still want Hyram to explain why he didn't claim when he thought he was at 4 votes...most people would have claimed there in a millisecond, especially if they had a power role and claiming would clear them for the rest of the game. Instead he just alludes to alot of things. It's so suspicious that it's ridiculous..even being a new/bad player doesn't account for this, because he obviously read Day 1 when Pod claimed and knows how claiming goes.
For what it matters, I'm sure that we have all caught on to the "I'm a power role, hint hint, nudge-nudge, wink-wink, a nod's as good as a shake to a blind bat" crap, but I don't know which role he is alluding to. I can make a guess at which of the 3 roles he's talking about, but I don't put any real belief behind it.
As such, I am not saying we should or should not force Hyram to claim, I am just saying that we should not based on this reasoning.
If we were actually analyzing people, instead of just rapid back and forth commentary, this would probably ring true-er to my ears, Hooga. As it stands right now, I'm not even sure if it would eliminate a "big target" for us, as everyone seems fairly dedicated to Hyram acting super scummy today, though not everyone is so willing to believe this as to vote him.
The post count: here http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/misc.php?do=whoposted&threadid=37757
Rahl has 28 to be specific, though specific bickering like that isn't the most productive. The part of this that interests me, is the recession of his posts in late Day 1, rather than the recent resurgance of them during day 2.
Long, thought out posts are you convince people. You make arguements, support it with reasons, and try to show why you're correct with what you are saying. This should be (and is, from what I have read) a general principal behind Mafia. When you just continually post short posts with little or no reasoning behind it, people tend to get suspicious. (Sound familiar much?)
Naw, really? A townie got lynched, and you think something went wrong? Everyone, listen to the next great messiah of Mafia! [/cynical smart-assness]
But really, this is why you're supposed to read the posts, and make your own analysis. If you can't convince yourself that someone is scum, don't lynch them. If you're thinking someone is scum because another person says they are, maybe you shouldn't vote. If you're a townie that is just following along voting whichever way people tell you to, you may as well be scum, since you are letting them lead you.
What's wrong with admiting that you spent the time to re-read the thread? We all need to eventually, and you just joined the game that you weren't even watching, seems perfectly reasonable to need to read it multiple times. Being afraid to admit that you reread the thread seems suspicious, because it seems like you are just trying to avoid drawing attention to yourself for any reason. Rereading the thread is a sign of dedication, that you want your team to win. Does not mean that you are scum, nor town. But being afraid to draw attention in this manner, especially with someone so skilled that they can play multiple games of Mafia at once, seems like a real screw-up. Keeping mistakes like this from happening should be easy for a townie, and seems to me to be a real scum tell.
Again with the voting for no reason. How can you be playing so many games at once, when you make so many retarded mistakes? I would think that playing this way would make you get lynched too quickly. Are you putting less effort into this game because it is a newb game? While I am sure we appreciate the sporting chance, it is far from nessecary. Learning is what this game is for, and you don't get better at anything by practicing at doing worse than your best.
And lastly, the one that is grabbing everyone's attention, and shunning it away at the same time...
And his next post...
And the next one...
Back up here, "buddy." Just what the hell were you accusing me of back there? I don't really care what you accuse me of, so long as you actually accuse me of it, and not just of something. I hardly think that being FoSed is grounds for anything, except possibly attention. Go ahead, PBPA me, I'd enjoy it. But all that I'm seeing here is you constantly flitting around, throwing blame. "Person A is scummy" or "Person be has to be scummy." And you had the audacity to call me flighty earlier? C'mon, give me a reason not to vote you. A seriously good reason not to vote you, as I have stated my opinion earlier about where I'm going when I vote someone.
Extendo
For now, my biggest suspects have shifted. I will take Cyan to his word at least for today. And I will keep the my FOS on Annorax. But I always suspected Lord Rahl of being scum. (43) However I did later retract my FOS and bandwagon against Pod. So FOS - Lord Rahl. I'd like to see Sal post more. There is little to go off of, and his posts generally go nowhere. So FOS - Salubrious.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1022820&postcount=26
Starts the pod case.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1023463&postcount=33
Says that the vote on Pod isn't serious, but doesnt remove it.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1026222&postcount=60
almost 30 posts between. Goes on extensively about the mass flavour claim.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1026544&postcount=64
Starts about how he is an agressive player, but cant show it most games. Questions pod about the Mass claim.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1026582&postcount=69
Says his vote is staying on Pod due to newb scum tells.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1027005&postcount=89
Trys to trap Pod into a corner it seems, with the statement; Says that Pod refusing to claim is an auto-lynch, that anyone else who votes and it results in pods death = auto-lynched. And reiterates, yet agian, that his initial vote for Pod was for him being defensive. His urge to state this in nearly every post he has made since then Makes him seem defensive and... well. kinda scummy.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1027048&postcount=91
States the case agianst pod isnt that good, but still advocates it due to minor scum tells. Says that name claiming is pointless, but that he wants Pod to name claim. If you truly didnt know anything about the person, you would want to know as much as possible. A name claim doesn't help decide if you are town or scum... but you wouldn't need to know that if you're scum would you? A name claim can be used to make a person look scummier then they are before the roles come out.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1027080&postcount=93
Says that Hyram has to be unable to unvote to make his punishment fair. Says that at 3, its too early and you look scummy. States that hyram being unable to vote sucks for pod, but is a good punishment for Hyram.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1027192&postcount=98
Tries to insinuate that the wheaties athlete COULD = Barry bonds who was an infamous cheater... and hence autoscum. *note my comment for post 91*
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1027457&postcount=105
Says that there isnt enough information. Exactly why a name claim was pointless, as he said in post 91; yet advocated.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1028766&postcount=114
Agree's with my posts in 112 & 113. Bringing up some relavent posts and points that Pod made.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1029858&postcount=138
Says OMGUS is bad. Uhmm... bout it.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1030229&postcount=141
says that Fosing someone for making too much sense is silly.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1031710&postcount=150
Says that a Back-up Doc is silly, *later claims miller* Says that the 20 min gap between Pods posts saying he'd claim was suspicious. Easy to fake role the Back-up doc is. *Easier to fake then a miller? Someone who will ALWAYS turn up scummy?*
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1031756&postcount=154
says Backup cop is different then backup Doc. Says precedent does exist, but the doc is more powerful hence not likely to get backed up in a newb game.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1031898&postcount=156
Says that pods post is entirely Wifom.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1032412&postcount=164
says That the pod wagon has lost its prime time. Starts the hard pushing towards gettnig pod lynched, even while unvoting him.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1033481&postcount=172
Agian states that Pod will likely survive. Pushes and states NOTHING useful.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1033850&postcount=175
Says that Pod was using a scum tactic to get people to unvote him by nearly speed lynching himself. Says that pod has a bad claim that is impossible to validate. Seems like he is trying to speed the day up a fair bit.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1034318&postcount=177
Agian continues the complaining saying that pod wont get lynched because the time has passed.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1034730&postcount=180
Says agian that the WIFOM has worked and pod will live. *STILL pushing Pods wagon*
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1035261&postcount=185
SAys that it's never in the towns favour to end the say *Contrary to how he was action in the past 5 posts. Says that unless they are for sure with a scum, that its not a good idea, but they had one who slipped away.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1035426&postcount=187
Reiterates the Pod Case. STILL pushing saying that pods Scum tactic to get everyone to unvote him panned out. and worked. Pod would live the day. Revotes Pod.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1035771&postcount=190
Justifies the vote agianst Pod, pushes him yet agian, and says that he isnt trying to convince people to vote for popd *if not, why would you CONSTANTLY bring up the pod case?*
Continues to say that IF a person could be lynched but isnt, that they rarely get examined agian.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1038311&postcount=193
Unvotes pod after two posts, and says that he still thinks pod is the play, but that he basically gives up since pod stopped posting.
Hyram
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1023307&postcount=30
Mentions ZDS would look good in the noose.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1024960&postcount=44
Funks/FoS's me, because i post too much, and im too agressive.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1025054&postcount=47
Says: "Count Chocula" then disappears.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1025605&postcount=50
Says that Scum could be Count Chocula, and townie's marmite. The famous Editted post.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1026747&postcount=74
Says that he's been away. Is suspicious of pod still, but not of me. Un-FoS's me.
Annorax
ZDS
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1024570&postcount=42
Gets uppity about me messing up his name. FOS'd a tonne of people. *including Pod*
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1025041&postcount=46
Starts Role name speculation. Funk's Lord Rahl.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1025061&postcount=48
Asks what Hyram is saying Count Chocula for, what context.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1025649&postcount=51
Asks for leniency regarding Hyrams edit. Further speculation, saying the Count could be Town.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1025844&postcount=55
Says he has common points with The count. Fishes asking if anyone else has similar traits with him
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1026078&postcount=58
Supports a flavour claim. Starts with his "super-secret-scum-catching-plan" Something to do with affiliation.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1028349&postcount=108
Says he is agianst mass claiming anything but Affilation due to his Cunning plan.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1028449&postcount=109
Claims he Pod is scum based on the affilation differences.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1028767&postcount=115
Says that his plan likely wont work. But, voted for him based on said plan. in post 109.
Again, he starts to defend said plan in the next quote of the post, saying that it can work...
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1028789&postcount=118
States Role claiming will backfire, but UnFoS's me. *Part of a dialoge between me and him regarding the type of claim i wanted from Pod*
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1028816&postcount=120
States a role claim can only save the Big'uns, and that we're lucky in that we know the roles in the game.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1029017&postcount=129
Criticizes Nymphe's lack of activity. Says that Pods death will give some good information regarding the affilation claim. Urges for a full Pod claim.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1030017&postcount=140
Agrees with Post 139 of Cyans. FOS's SP.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1030652&postcount=144
Says the Scum getting scum lynched plan is horrible and shouldnt be concidered when determining if someone is scum or not. *Suspicious to me as it IS a worthwhile plan, and has won people games. Such as Sin City.*
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1032480&postcount=166
SAys that he doesnt want to explain the plan of his. And goes on to explain that Pods massive piece of WIFOM *It truly was a massive piece of craplogic -_-* doesnt make sense, makes him look scummier, unfunks and unfos's everyone.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1032509&postcount=168
Says that pods defence was horrible, his scenario's horrible, and Pod is using ALOT of craplogic. Says that if pod wants to get killed he's doing a good job.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1032571&postcount=170
Says that pod trying to kill himself is bad. That Pod is trying to limit the information flow. Asks for clarification that pod IS the Back-up doc and not cop.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1033512&postcount=173
Asks why Cyan thinks pod will live.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1033901&postcount=176
Says that He doesnt think pod will survive the day, but that he is suspicious of the lurkers. That eventually, we will lynch pod, but we need time to analyze the day *makes him seem a slight bit less scummy in my eyes; is a very townie thing to say*
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1035394&postcount=186
Says that nothing anyone says or does will make him unvote and believe pods town.
FoS's Cyan.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1035580&postcount=189
Questions Cyan more. Compares the Loran16 and Pod cases; saying that they are similar in theory, but not in pactice.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1038380&postcount=195
I concider this post big enough to quote in its entirety.
And thats where im going to stop for the moment, i have gone through half the game for 4 players *one of which who doesn't exist, hence the lack of anything in his column.* I shall continue this soon, but my mind's going a bit wonky. Ill finish the other half of the thread soon. It's a hefty endevour, so please be patient. I Am trying to justify what i have said so far.
Okay, i must admit you are accquitting yourself well so far. Atleast you made certian things make more sense.
Regarding Nymphe and Annorax, Nymphe has had like 6 posts so far where i am in the thread, all pointless. The few things that he has said, i see quite literally, 0 point in holding Annorax accountable for at this present moment.
I AM suspicious that as someone said earlier *not quite sure who said that, and its not exact wording, an approximation.* That does fit how Nymphe was acting to a degree, and Annorax's activities so far are quite questionable in many ways. Hence my FOS on him.