I'm willing to go along with this plan, but I'd request that Hyram investigate me. If Salubrious is a GF, I don't want Hyram coming back tomorrow and saying "Cheerio chaps, Salubrious is town, so let's lynch this Arimnaes fellow."
And the town decides to get rid of this shady "No Lynch" character. It turns out that No Lynch was in fact the doctor all along... [/obv fake lynch scene]
So no one dies at the breakfast table today. Let's see what the night brings.
It is now NIGHT 3. Send in your actions - night will end by Sunday.
It's time again for another round of nutrition! Let's see who's coming to the table today: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.... 5... Yup, just 5 of you. Salubrious, the doctor, is no longer with us. He appears to have been griddled and covered in some warm maple syrup. Yum.
Salubrious, you are Dr. Frankenberry, creator of Frankenberry’s Monster. Ever since the incident involving your monster and the last village you were at, you have promised to serve the public good. Quite obiously, this involves using your talents as a doctor.
Affiliation: You don’t like villagers who have pitchforks and torches. None of these townies have pitchforks and torches. QED, you like the town. (town)
Abilities: Once per night, you may send me the name of one person. They will survive the night, guarenteed--mafia night-kills will not work on them. This is not culmulative, so don’t skip 2 nights then try to save multiple people. If you forget, then I’m sorry. Boo-hoo. Oh, and you can’t protect yourself.
Win Condition: All the non-town players are dead.
Well, My investigation yeilds that Arimnaes is in fact a Vanilla Townie. I'm beginning to think that I'm an incompetant cop. FOS: Arim. And we'll sort this out.
I think we should just lynch Arimnaes now and worry about discussing tomorrow..tomorrow. I say this because Arimnaes is going to try and interfere with our conversations, and he's a good player...it'll be difficult to figure out what he's saying that's truthful and what is just WIFOM.
Plus, it seems pretty unlikely that we're going to lynch someone other than Arimnaes today, and discussions etc. tend to stagnate once you know whom you're going to lynch.
Lastly, clearly we'll be down to 1 Mafioso remaining once Arimnaes is lynched, and I'd rather keep the pressure on whomever that is and keep them on their toes than give them extra time today to plan out what they're going to do.
Why did Hyram obtain a result of "vanilla townie" on him ? Because he is the GodFather, obviously.
'Fraid not, sugar. Not that you have to believe me, of course. But consider this: If I were the Godfather, why in God's name would I have false-claimed, THEN asked to be investigated?
Quote from ZeDorkSlipeur »
Today we will lynch Arimnaes.
fos ZeDorkSlipeur. Why would we lynch the back-up back-up cop?
Quote from ZeDorkSlipeur »
(and I like plot twists too, but you've already guessed that :p)
There is a tremendous flaw with that theory. That being, if Arimnaes were the Godfather and wanted Hyram to investigate him, the scum wouldn't have NKed Salubrious, and he definetely wouldn't have confessed and voted himself in the first few posts of the day. If he were legitimately the Mafia GF, then the Mafia would have killed one of us and let Salubrious live and tried to get him lynched today, clearly. It is flatly obvious that Hyram is receiving flawed investigations. I honestly can't see how/why you would even try to deny that.
As for the rest of that..people have been saying 'omfg you're soooo scummy' about me this entire game, and no one ever bothered to try to explain why. So yes, obviously, I was happy that someone seemed to be giving me the benefit of the doubt. If you made it all up, then, that makes me feel bad, but, it doesn't change the fact that I'm not scum.
ZDS: I speculated that Hyram didn't get mod-killed for the reason that he was a power role. As it turns out, he is a power role(although apparently a confused one. If anything, the fact that Hyram is Cop only reinforced my theory that he didn't get mod-killed for that edit because he is a power role. PF didn't want to mod-kill the Cop, but he also didn't want to do nothing, so, he compromised with himself and suspended him for a day.
As for Salubrious, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Also, nowhere do I defend Arimnaes, not today anyway. He's obviously scum, that is undebatable. To puncuate this fact, please see the fact that I'm voting him. Please point out, for the rest of us, where I 'defend' Arimnaes. I said that he's not the Mafia Godfather, because he obviously is not. Please explain the train of thought that would result in the Mafia God-father A)false-claiming Doc and then B)NKing the REAL Doc. There is simply no way that his could happen.
I guess there's nothing for it other than for someone to cast the final vote on Arimnaes so we can see his lynch scene and you can see that he is not the Mafia Godfather, since you're the only one that hasn't reached this conclusion.
At the current I argee with MC. I am unwilling to trust any report I have received as a result of my Investigations. In that case, I am keeping my vote on Arim. LaL is the motto of a very successful strategy and unless A. can explain his lie in further depth I think that that is the best if not the only plan.
Trying to get the town insane with confusion and illogism is the last thing the scum can do now to try to save themselves.
See, now you're getting with the program.
EVERYBODY CLAP YOUR HANDS!!!
:dance::dance::banana::banana::dance::dance:
Quote from ZeDorkSlipeur »
Can Arimnaes not be the GodFather ? If he is not, I will say rude words out of spite and then I will say rude words again because the censor censored my pretty rude words.
Whaaat? I thought you said you liked plot twists…
Quote from Cyan »
I said that he's not the Mafia Godfather, because he obviously is not. Please explain the train of thought that would result in the Mafia God-father A)false-claiming Doc and then B)NKing the REAL Doc. There is simply no way that his could happen.
Curse you for trying to inject sanity back into this game!!!
Quote from Hyram »
LaL is the motto of a very successful strategy and unless A. can explain his lie in further depth I think that that is the best if not the only plan.
Well, my lie in depth was this: I said I was the doctor and Salubrious was scum. Neither of these statements were true. But you didn't honestly expect me to claim scum, did you? Regardless of how entertaining it would have been…
Quote from Cyan »
Your vote isn't actually on Arimnaes at all, just so you're aware...you just FOSed him earlier. If your vote was on him, he'd be lynched.
Bwahaha! You fools! I already lynched myself, if you recall.
Wow, this is a lot of fun. If I'm ever scum again, I'm definitely claiming day 1 so that I can make inane, zany posts for the rest of the day, on my way to the gallows.
Well..you voted yourself, at least. But you're still only at 3 votes, so, you're not lynched obviously. Hyram seems to think that he's voting you, but, actually isn't..hopefully he reads soon.
Well..you voted yourself, at least. But you're still only at 3 votes, so, you're not lynched obviously. Hyram seems to think that he's voting you, but, actually isn't..hopefully he reads soon.
...
Quote from fadeblue »
With 5 alive, it is 3 to lynch.
Whoops, I just reread ZDS's posts and realized there's actually some content I can respond to. Blasphemy!
Quote from ZDS »
1) You thought Hyram doesn't get roles
I believe we went over this several dozen times yesterday. I was well aware that Hyram got roles, which was why I was so very screwed if I couldn't get you guys to lynch Salubrious yesterday. But I'm still pretty confident that the remaining scum has the town thoroughly conned.
Quote from ZDS »
2) You expected someone's head to explose because of the WIFOM
I do hate it when my head exploses. It's most inconvenient.
But actually, no. WIFOM does have its place among scum tactics but I would much rather make the good play than make the absolutely terrible play just for the sake of WIFOMing the town. Of course, even the argument I'm giving right now is WIFOM, so... I dunno, you figure it out.
Quote from ZDS »
3) You made a stupid mistake.
I demand satisfaction! I challenge you to a duel!
PS:
Quote from ZDS »
Where does my allegiance lie ? a little to the left
What a quick day indeed! arimnaes leads the way to the chopping board and invites the town to take a swing. Cyan and Mosschop oblige, neatly slicing him up.
Rahlarimnaes, you are Count Chocula. You are a vampire. There’s no way that you aren’t a mafioso.
Affiliation: All bloodsuckers are bad. You are a bloodsucker. Hmmm..... (mafia)
Abilities: You may speak to your mafia buddies at night. [snip]
It is now NIGHT 4. Send in your actions - night will end by Wednesday.
Everyone wakes up anxiously and arrives at the breakfast table. What happened during the night? No surprises here - Hyram has been stuffed into the trash compactor. Well, say goodbye to the cop.
Hyram, you are Captain Crunch, and because you have the most police-ish sounding name, you are cop.
Affiliation: For sugary goodness at breakfast.(town)
Abilities: Once per night, you may send me the name of one person. I will tell you their official affiliation--but not their role name (eg. You will see “town cop” not “Captain Crunch” if you investigated yourself.) This is not culmulative, so don’t skip 2 nights then try to investigate multiple people. If you forget, then I’m sorry. Boo-hoo.
Win Condition: All the non-town players are dead.
Actually, if ZDS were Mafia, Hyram is the most logical choice to kill. I thought about this all throughout the Night, and honestly, I'm pretty sure that it's ZDS that is dirty, and not Mosschop(the latter is possible, but, your posts feel pretty townish to me in general)
A)Because you were his biggest critic yesterday, there's no way that ZDS could have killed you, it's far too suspicious. Especially after that you told him that you realized that his 'apology and explanation are total BS'(which was the same as I thought) Similarly, if I were mafia, I would have killed you for exactly this reason. In fact, I did exactly that to Kops in Newb 7, if you'll recall, and it worked.
B)ZDS has been trying to cast suspicion on me ever since I decided that I didn't like the Pod lynch..if he would have NKed me now, and I showed up town, leaving you, him, and Hyram, it would have resulted in a very short day...for him.
Clearly he was between a rock and a hard place once he realized that his cover was more or less blown, and he panicked. His play yesterday supports this theory. For one thing, even though he repeatedly expressed that he was adamantly sure that Arimnaes was Mafia, he never voted him. Even after I said that, if left alive, Arimnaes would just try to confuse and WIFOM us(which is exactly what he did), and even after Arimnaes started doing exactly that, ZDS still expressed surity that Arimnaes was not only Mafia, but, the Mafia GF, but still would not cast a vote on him. Also, yesterday, one of the few intelligible things that ZDS said yesterday was:
Quote from ZDS »
Trying to get the town insane with confusion and illogism is the last thing the scum can do now to try to save themselves.
Now, take a look over ZDS posts in general, yesterday, and tell me how they seem to you.
In summation, Hyram was the only person that ZDS could kill, really, IMO. Hell, Mosschop, if you were Mafia, you probably would have killed him as well. If I were Mafia, I'd have thought about it, but ultimately I'd have killed you, because Hyram could probably be swayed to vote ZDS, especially with you conveniently dying after what you had to say yesterday.
EBWODP:
Something I missed from earlier:
Quote from ZDS »
Secondly, let's say you (that is to say, everyone but me) were right about Hyram being naive. What are the chances of the presence of a miller in this situation ? If he's going to turn up town when investigated anyway, what's the point ? FoS : Cyan
You forget that there was a back-up cop as well. I'm inclined to believe that he would have gotten normal results, and this was PF's compromise for balance against having backups for both the Cop and the Doc roles.
Even though your post reeks of defensiveness and WIFOM, I'll address each point individually anyway.
Not exactly. My first FoS on you was when you suddenly changed your mind about the Pod lynch, sure, but my first real suspicions were when you used stupid arguments against Hyram, and I did not attack you seriously until day 3.
You mean the part where I felt like Pod might just be a newb instead of a scum, and unvoted him(and decided not to re-vote him), and you tried to pressure me into voting him anyway? Also, if you look back, it wasn't sudden, it was a gradual change of opinion on my part, largely sparked by another player requesting that I do so.
NightKilling you is like the stupidest thing I could have done if I was mafia. So stupid I wouldn't even have thought of it :-/.
Thanks for agreeing with me.
My "cover" can't be blown, since I don't have one ;). And I don't panick. Never. I'm not you, you know.
You seemed panicky yesterday, to me. As for your cover not being blown..that statement is so much WIFOM that it's suspicious that you would even bother to make it.
I said I wanted to let the town talk as much as they wanted. You should now I'm in favor of long days, even if it gives the mafia more time to try to confuse us. Just remember that, since the day is the only time where townies without investigative roles can get informations, it should always be as long as possible, in order to, you know, gather information. Plus, remember, I'm not the only one who didn't vote Arimnaes
Of course you said that, because, IMO, you needed more time to figure out how you were going to approach today, since your Ace-In-The-Hole(a Vanilla Townie investigation by Hyram) was completely blown out of the water. Also, what does Hyram not voting have to do with anything? Hyram didn't come out and say, over and over, (paraphrase) 'omfg Arimnaes must be the mafia GF, Hyram has to be a valid cop etc etc'. You did. But you didn't vote, and your 'reasoning' behind not voting doesn't wash, to me.
First of all, I don't remember repeating that I would not vote against him. I said it once, and did not mention it again. Secondly, it would have been quite weird if I said "well, let's discuss !", and then voted to end the day, wouldn't it ?
You're misrepresenting me here. I didn't say that you said that you repeatedly said that you wouldn't vote him. I said that you said(and you did), repeatedly that he was not only obviously scum, but, obviously the Mafia GodFather. I mean honestly, you were 'so sure' that he was the GF that you would 'use rude words' if he turned up mafia. Of course, obviously, you knew that he was mafia.
Confusing ?
Confusing and very illogical, both of which you said were 'the only tactics that the Mafia had left at that point'(paraphrase).
Man, your plan is so obvious it hurts. You said yourself that if I was mafia, there's no way I would have killed Mosschop. So, if you had killed him, it would in fact have been an argument in my favor.
...Did you even read what I said there? If I were Mafia, I would have killed Mosschop because Hyram would have been easier to sway to vote the way I wanted him to. I've played in back to back newb games w/ Mosschop, and he has never made a play that is even remotely resembling something hasty, nor was he ever really swayed by one of my arguments. For me, if I were Mafia, leaving Mosschop alive would be awful. Just because *I* realize that you, as Mafia, wouldn't kill Mosschop doesn't mean that A)Hyram would realize that or B)that I couldn't convince him that it was just WIFOM on your part when it came up(which it obviously would have). Besides, even if you did manage to turn it into an argument 'in your favor', killing Mosschop over Hyram would still benefit me significantly more than it would have benefited you. No matter how you try to put it, if I were mafia, it would be in my favor to have Hyram alive right now, and not Mosschop.
A blind illiterate man would see you've been preparing this attack since the end of day 4 (if not sooner) and are using self-contradictory arguments to try to convince Mosschop to vote me (you, of course, don't vote, so you can wait until one of us cast a vote on someone who is not you, and finish him off).
Funny fact, the current players now are a mafioso, a townie who is under another townie's attack, and the townie who is attacking the previous townie. Does it ring a bell ? In fact, revealing my "plan" had an effect, it's that you had no choice but to kill Hyram and let Mosschop kill me. Things are perfectly under control :cool:.
A blind, illiterate man..that's nice...you really seem like you're grasping at straws, the way you're constantly trying to belittle me in this post. I haven't been 'planning' anything at all, but even if I had, it couldn't have been since before the last day, since before then, I thought that Hyram was yeilding valid investigations...granted, once Arimnaes counterclaimed, I thought that one of you guys must have been the GF, but it didn't seem like the right time to bring up that conversation. Thankfully, you brought it up for me anyway. And no, I'm not going to come out of the doors on the absolute last day of the game voting someone. Unlike you, I actually want the town to win. The only thing that's more scummy than that is doing that at the exact same time as saying 'I like to give the town as much time as possible to discuss things'.
Something else, also. From his posts yesterday/the day before, Hyram didn't seem to think that I was scum anyway. So again, if I were scum, I clearly would have left Hyram alive, since he was already realizing that I'm town.
Also, as for your 'plan'..you've changed your statements about that multiple times now. If it was really just a 'plan', you would have brought this to light as soon as you 'caught me' with it..but you didn't..the day was stagnating and you tried to force a lynch anywhere you could, IMO. When that didn't work, you backpedaled with extreme haste and claimed that you were 'just trying to trick me'(which is partially true, I'd say, you were trying to trick me and some other townies into voting Mosschop). Today, you stated that it was NOT 'just a plan', and that you were just trying to add some drama into the thread(please explain to me why a townie would want to add drama and confusion to the thread). So, first you try to get a wagon started on Mosschop..that doesn't work, so you say it was a big plan to trick me..Mosschop doesn't believe you on that, so, you say that part was just a joke. Forgive me if I have no idea what you're saying anymore. Also, in an earlier post, you had already 'cast suspicion' on Mosschop by FOSing him for literally no reason(because he said that he was voting me because I must be mafia if I didn't counterclaim Doctor). It's pretty clear what happened here, IMO.
Could be. It does not matter at this point.
If it doesn't matter, why did you bring it up?
Of course, a promise is a promise, and I've promised I would attack you today. So, let's get started !
[QUOTE] Post 500 : This one is just out of curiosity. Would you beg to explain why you think that ? What made me more scummy than anyone else ?
You were one of the main proponents of the Pod lynch..even when I, one of the other main proponents of it, started to have doubts, you continued to push it, to the point that you tried to bully me into getting back onto it. I'll have to go back and look during the days when you were a 'confirmed' townie...I had to reformat my comp about 10 days ago, and I lost all of my notes.
Post 509 : Salubrious has not even been counterclaimed yet, and you already state he was lying and making a gambit. After all, any argument is good to get the doctor lynched, isn't it ?
At that point, I remember feeling like he had been scummy in his minor amount of posting in the thread. I thought that he was mafia, and(at that point) that Rahl was the other Mafia. Everyone else had either A)claimed or B)been investigated already, so, it was safe for him to false-claim doc. Initially, I thought that he was scummier than Rahl, and even moreso when Arimnaes came along and claimed Doc as well. Obviously it turns out that I was being hard on Salubrious, as I have a tendency to do towards people that act scummy, and that I got duped by Arimnaes. Not much to say here. In a claim vs. counterclaim situation, you should virtually always believe the counterclaimant, because a Mafioso isn't going to fake claim into a 1 for 1 trade. Granted, we(the town) would have lost if Salubrious got lynched there, but, I got stuck in 'general practices' and believed the counter-claimant. And even then, I hadn't voted Salubrious, I was still waiting to see what he had to say. So no, clearly, I wasnt 'just trying to get the Doctor lynched' or I'd have voted him.
Yeah, I feel bad about that. I got discouraged because it seemed like I was the only one that thought Salubrious was scummy, and so I didn't bother. Later Arimnaes came along with his claim, and I thought that was all of the evidence that was needed.
Post 525 : Admit it, you were trying to win the Worst Argument Ever Award™, weren't you ?
Back to being mocking and condescending, I see. I think that it's very telling that, while you were 'confirmed' you acted one way(courteous, patient, etc), but, now that that fell through, your attitude has taken a huge turn towards the very scummy. This just re-confirms my opinion that you're acting out of desperation now, because the strategy that you've been using since Day 2 got kicked to the curb. IMO, if you were genuinely a townie, after Hyram's revelation, you would have tried to act MORE patient and courteous, but instead you just seem like you don't know what to do and you're panicking. And no, I wasn't, that was genuinely how I read that statement by fadeblue, I didn't think about the fact that we had a back-up doc.
Post 547 : You were the only one who thought Arimnaes's case was convincing and the only one who found my "train of thought" interesting. Seems like you are trying to push as much anti-town cases as you can.
Yeah, I believed Arimnaes, for reasons already stated(but again, I wasn't voting at that point, also for reasons already stated). I got duped by Arimnaes, whom was Mafia, and, one way or another(I contest that you were just trying to force a lynch on the only person that you reasonably could and win with the NK), I also got duped by you, whom it's seeming more and more to me is also Mafia.
It's also worth stating here: If you didn't believe Arimnaes, as you claim, then you should have been voting him, right? I mean, afterall, when someone counterclaims and you don't believe them, they pretty clearly have to be scum. But I guess you wouldn't want to vote away your scum buddy without a last ditch desperation effort at getting some other townie(Mosschop) lynched. How convenient that, the next day, once you realized that you weren't confirmed anymore, it just so happened that you 'didn't really mean it(well, you didn't yesterday, but according to what you say today, you were just joking when you said that you didn't mean it..I'm very interested in hearing what you have to say here.
Post 562 : This is a pearl. Did I say a pearl ? I meant a diamond !
What are you talking about? Also, I feel that it's worth mentioning that Mosschop took me up on my request that he present actual evidence as to why I was scummy, and when he did so, he came to the independent conclusion that I was alot less scummy than he remembered.
1° Do you realise you were the only person who is not me or Mosschop who paid attention to my arguments ? I wouldn't call it "being under the spotlight".
I said 'somewhat under the spotlight', and, IMO, he was somewhat under the spotlight.
2° Mosschop did defend himself, you know.
I really don't feel like he defended himself at all. And even if he did, he didn't do so adequately.
3°… and you did not even consider the possibility that Salubrious could be the one telling the truth and Arimnaes the one lying.
Post 567 : Emphasis on the last paragraph. More "there's no doubt Arimnaes is town, and no doubt Salubrious is not" for our pleasure.
Like I said, I fell into the 'in a claim vs. counterclaim scenario, you believe the counterclaimant'. Besides, you keep bringing this up, but for all of that, I was not voting Salubrious. I was naturally inclined to believe Arimnaes, because usually that's how it works..but I was still willing to let Salubrious try to defend himself...which he never really did accurately.
Of course, once Arimnaes was investigated and it was revealed that he was not the doc (and himself admitted being scum), you had no choice but to stand against him. Trying to protect him at this point would have been suicide, for anyone.
If it would have been suicide for anyone, why are you trying to bring it up against me specifically?
Why is that important? I made that post immediately after reading Hyram's post, before I'd had a chance to really think about it and realize that it was an impossibility.
So, to conclude, you want Mosschop to vote someone off, do you ? Well, I'll give him this possibility. Vote : Cyan.
Where do I say that I want Mosschop to vote someone? Where do I even give that impression? I'm trying to use logic and rationale to explain why I am town and you are not, and you're apparently trying to get me speedlynched so that the mafia/you can win the game.
IMO, this post was pretty telling of your scumminess. Like I said, throughout the game I felt like you had alot of scummy posts, but, I wrote them off because you had gotten an investigation that not only said 'town', but said 'Vanilla Townie'(I thought that a Godfather would just have come back as 'Town', so, at first, it didn't seem like that role was a possibility, not until Vanilla Townie came back for both of you, and, one of the two people that I thought was scum claimed Doc, in a counter-claim, which is generally something that you accept, unless the other claimant dies and gives away the lie. At that point, as I said earlier, it seemed like there must be a Godfather, since there was no other logical explanation). I also wrote them off because, even though you had alot of scummy posts, you did exhibit alot of patience and willingness to let people think things through, etc. Of course, again, that was when we all thought you were confirmed..in the times that we weren't as sure(all of Day 1, Day 2 before Hyram revealed his investigation results, yesterday and today), you've been a totally different person, and significantly more scummy, which I can only guess is because you're feeling desperate. If that's not it, feel free to explain it to us.
The votes are in! ZDS and Mosschop restrain the flailing Cyan and drop him into a vat of boiling hot chocolate. Ouch.
But now, the moment you've all been waiting for! Was Cyan really Mafia? Or was it Mosschop, who placed the final vote? Or was ZDS being sneaky and swayed Mosschop to his side?
Drumroll please!
*waits*
Cyan, you are Grape Nuts. You are a health nut. You want to keep cereal eaters healthy, even if you have to break a few eggs to make the omlet. Your willingness to kill puts you firmly as a mafioso.
Affiliation: You really want to keep people healthy, even if it means killing. (mafia)
Abilities: You may speak to your mafia buddies at night. [snip]
Honestly, we never really had a chance of winning until very late in the game. 1/2 the town had roles, which makes it ridiculously hard to get anyone mislynched, since it was very likely that they'd just have some power role to claim. I'm surprised that there wasn't a Vig too, maybe that was Lightster's role.
Ironically, I thought this entire time that Arimnaes was a Mafia Godfather, for w/e reason(I guess it was hard to believe that Rahl's role was Vanilla Scum with Count Chocula as his rolename). So yeah, the other day when Arimnaes PMs me and is like 'I'm dead when I get investigated' I was like uhhhh...whoops. I didn't think we had much of a shot there, and then we found out about Hyram.
By the way, I think that Hyram actually got a scum investigation on Arimnaes, and he was just trying to be clever, hoping that he'd get to stay alive and could reveal his plot today..that was why I lynched him instead of Mosschop. That and, even if he's a Naive Cop, he's still a confirmed townie. It seems like his character paste from fadeblue would have a 'mod note' if he were actually going to receive vanilla townie results from everyone, and it doesn't appear that he did. Plus, Annorax and I had the *exact* same flavor for being Mafia, which was fairly retarded, and then Rahl was just randomly 'Count Chocula'. Oh, also, the Mafia are the last 3 people on the player list, which I noticed immediately, so that was nice. Oh well. I kind of gave up once Salubrious claimed Doc, but it got interesting again when Arimnaes came along and claimed Doc(I thought he was GodFather at the time, so).
Then there was myself vs. Hyram on Day 2. When he came out of the gates immediately attacking me, and literally making up/falsifying information to do so, I was *sure* that he was Cop, had gotten a scum investigation on me, and was trying to get me lynched w/o having to claim, hence the Miller claim. I had to laugh and roll my eyes when he said that he had investigated ZDS.
It's kind of frustrating that I lost to a vote count, as I think I would have been able to turn Mosschop against ZDS, otherwise...but oh well, that's life. Anyway, that's that. I'm disappointed that I didn't win(Rahl and Annorax basically helped me zero throughout the entire game, especially with Rahl going out of his way to PBPA me etc, though Arimnaes helped alot more than I thought he'd be able to)...but I'm not disappointed that the game is over. I don't think I'm cut out for newb games, you can't play the 'reasonable doubt' game enough in them. Anyway. Good job guys.
..Mosschop especially, you're very good at playing a townie...it's always painfully obvious that you're not scum, you don't even leave anything that can really be turned against you. Congratulations.
GJ, town. Not that I can say I'm surprised we lost, as I was 99% certain I was replacing scum when I volunteered to replace Rahl.
You know what actually won the game for the town? The fact that Mosschop suggested No Lynch. Normally, suggesting No Lynch is really scummy, but the town was actually in one of the rare positions in which it was profitable, with a claimed role-getting cop alive, the mafia roleblocker dead, and two people claiming doc. I was really, really hoping that no one would think of it.
What I really want to know is what was up with Hyram's innocent investigation on me. There isn't, wasn't, and never was a Godfather. Or, if I was a GF, my PM made no mention whatsoever about it. Which means either he was a Naive Cop (which I would never expect from a noob game), or there was mod error on fadeblue's part (which is equally unlikely.) I don't see how Hyram could even have been investigating naive after we switched mods, because his naivete obviously wouldn't be in his PM.
A few things:
-This game needed to have been reviewed. I'm fairly sure that if PF had not disappeared and the game had continued normally, it would have ended in a decisive victory for the town. A Newb game should not include both a backup cop and backup doc, even if the Mafia have a roleblocker. There are simply not enough days in a small game to counterbalance that power.
-One thing that gave the Mafia some breathing room was Hyram's botched investigation. I don't know yet if he was trying to be clever or was genuinely mistaken (though I think it's the latter). I did my part and asked him to send back what I sent him, just to make sure it wasn't an error on my part, and he quoted it back to me intact: "arimnaes is a VANILLA MAFIA". Perhaps the inclusion of the word "vanilla" misled him.
-I'm glad at least Mosschop finally noticed the lack of speedlynch at 6 players. I saw it when it came up and wondered if anyone would catch it.
-IMO, arimnaes made a good play upon replacing. There sometimes comes a point for the Mafia where you lose if you don't try to counterclaim and play the cointoss. Unfortunately, it came too late, as the rest of the town correctly realized that it was safer lynching Cyan than trying to guess the right doc - which of course resulted in the suggestion of a no-lynch.
-By the way, even numbers during the day usually favor the Mafia. No lynching with 6 people left in a standard game is reasonable play, particularly when you have a cop role remaining and a doc to protect it.
I am very glad that someone suggested no lynch, it was kinda frustrating not being able to spill it (Darn you mafia!!!!). The cop thing confused me too. Since we had a replace mod, it seems to me that any notes about naievity would've been lost. So if Arim wasn't GF, then Hyram should've gotten a scum result (and there is IMO absolutely no reason for Hyram to lie about that). My only conclusion is that Arim is GF... which both scum seem to say isn't true. Hopefully we can get Hyram and the mod to clear that up?
If Arim was GF then the game was lost when he falseclaimed doc. The best play I see was to get Cyan lynched, draw an investigation, and then make a convincing case against one of the vanilla townies.
If Arim was vanilla then the game was lost when Lightster was mod-killed. There's very little way the scum could've won then, with all the confirmed players.
Isn't it interesting that both back-up roles were killed before the "real" roles?
EDIT: WHAAAAA I got ninjaed and I wasy typing fast.
lol poor Hyram... that could've well turned the play for the mafia if the claims had been a little different.
also in retrospect I'm kinda disappointed we didn't lynch cyan sooner, as in from when he claimed miller. Seems to me that would be a prudent play in non-lynch-or-lose situations.
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|It is Night 0. Night ends in 180 s (or when all choices are in). Submit actions to fadeblue
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
-This game needed to have been reviewed. I'm fairly sure that if PF had not disappeared and the game had continued normally, it would have ended in a decisive victory for the town. A Newb game should not include both a backup cop and backup doc, even if the Mafia have a roleblocker. There are simply not enough days in a small game to counterbalance that power.
This, I agree with. I think the ideal newb setup is simply Cop, Doc, 1-shot vig, mafia roleblocker. It makes it challenging for both sides, while remaining balanced due to the fact that most players are vanilla. I also think there should always be 12 players rather than 11, so that the vig shooting a mafia or the doc getting a successful protect actually buys the town some time instead of just making it harder to pick out the mafia.
Honestly, the only reason the mafia were even in the game at all was that Lightster got modkilled, sending the town into LyLo.
Edit:
Quote from Hooga »
also in retrospect I'm kinda disappointed we didn't lynch cyan sooner, as in from when he claimed miller.
If I had replaced as town, my first post would have been:
Hi guys. Cyan is mafia, because there is no miller in newb games! Never! Not once! DIEDIEDIE!!!!!!
As it was, though, I not only had to pretend that the miller claim was plausible, but also somehow shift the general perception from "There can't be a GF" to "There must be a GF!"
Actually Arimnaes I think that Lightster getting modkilled actually sent the game into the town's favour, since the rest of the town had been cop-cleared or could be cleared by claiming. From that point forward, assuming the cop was sane (and he was), there should've been no way for the town to lose, regardless of mafia play.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|It is Night 0. Night ends in 180 s (or when all choices are in). Submit actions to fadeblue
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
He had told me his role, I was just mis-remembering it. However, yeah, Rahl never really communicated at night at all. The night before he got replaced, I'd asked him to submit our Night Kill(I picked Hooga, because, like Mosschop, he always seems town, and is rarely swayed by anyone else's opinions)...he never even messaged me back, I had to PM the kill to FB at the last minute.
Then Annorax came along and basically made everything alot worse for us. Which is odd, as normally, he's a good player.
As for being 'predictable', I consistently use the same style of playing(regardless of my affiliation) for just that reason..it's consistent. It's too easy for people to pick up on it when you act one way in one game, and another way in another.
Anyway, I'd be interested to hear from Hyram. It's pretty funny that what seems like a really desperate(and unnecessary) gambit on his part almost let the mafia win the game, when we essentially had no shot otherwise(I was going to have to try to convince a Mafia GodFather into the game, which would have been a fascinatingly difficult task).
I'm surprised, and a little disappointed, to hear that this game was never reviewed; I thought that all Newb games had to be reviewed..but eh, them's the breaks.
Oh, and I really, really shot myself in the foot with that Miller claim, after saying that I didn't believe Pod because the role wasn't normal for Newb Mafia..blah...I had to put so much(too much) effort into getting Pod lynched that I forgot alot of what I'd said to do so. Not that I really had a choice, we had to get him lynched somehow.
I still think that Hyram only didn't get Mod-Killed because he was The Cop, too bad PF isn't around to comment on that. It's just the only thing that makes sense..suspending a person for a day is pretty random, and he was already pissed off because of the invisitext thing. If he'd gotten mod-killed, like he should have, it would have changed things an awful lot. But, I digress.
Edit:
I agree w/ Hooga. As soon as Lighster got killed and we found out that he had been Vanilla, we were essentially done for. Everyone else had either been cleared by Hyram(I'll never figure out why he investigated Mosschop, btw), or, had a role to claim..there was nothing we could do, other than what Arimnaes did, and sadly Mosschop thought of the No Lynch.
if he had been mod-killed, I would've been cop, and would've never been forced to claim, which throws everything for a loop because I don't want to call how I would've acted with an important power role avaliable to me.
BTW why did you NK Silent Prophet night 1?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|It is Night 0. Night ends in 180 s (or when all choices are in). Submit actions to fadeblue
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
there was nothing we could do, other than what Arimnaes did, and sadly Mosschop thought of the No Lynch.
You should've claimed miller-doctor. :/
Although the cards were stacked against them to begin with, the mafia really lost this game during day 1 and the beginning of day 2. They were almost universally aggressive and hyperactive... the exact opposite of how we played in Newb 7, when we had the perfect win.
PS: Who's hosting the next newb game?
PPS: This game supports my hypothesis, that I'm only scum when I replace in newb games.
PPPS:
Quote from Cyan »
@Arimnaes: No one even believed miller, miller-doctor would have been utterly impossible.
@Hooga: I would have killed you Night 2 regardless, so it would have helped us(since you never would have been able to confirm Mosschop)..plus, I doubt you would have investigated ZDS, but, that's hard to say for sure. I NKed Silent Prophet because I couldn't get a read on him and didn't know anything about him, and there didn't really seem to be a better choice.
@Arimnaes: No one even believed miller, miller-doctor would have been utterly impossible. Also, nymphe wasn't aggressive on Day 1, he/she was non-existant..which didn't help matters. I got away with ALOT in Newb 7 because it was my first game, I couldn't have gotten away w/ that again, I don't think, especially since Hooga and Mosschop were repeats.
Good job town. I hope I wasn't too obvious as doc, but it was my first game and lurked through most of it. I wasn't able to save anybody... but I did guess that Hooga was cop day 1, so brownie points for me I guess. ZDS played very well; I think if he had been mafia the town might have lost (no offense mafia). Oh, and arimnaes, did you think you had a chance at lynching me or were you just trying to divert attention and confuse people?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
By kingcobweb and Goblinboy.
Official Elitist of [thread=40859][RBS][/thread]
Quote from kingcobweb »
I don't understand the purpose of gimmick accounts.
Oh, and arimnaes, did you think you had a chance at lynching me or were you just trying to divert attention and confuse people?
I didn't think I had a very good chance, because doing so required extensive craplogic. But I decided even before my first post that forcing the town to choose between you and I was the only chance the mafia would possibly have at winning, because everyone else was cop-cleared. When that plan failed, we just decided to kill you and hope to con the town into thinking there was a GF, because it would logically be either Mosschop or ZDS.
if he had been mod-killed, I would've been cop, and would've never been forced to claim, which throws everything for a loop because I don't want to call how I would've acted with an important power role avaliable to me.
BTW why did you NK Silent Prophet night 1?
IIRC that was essentially a random choice. The obvious choice of Hyram was debated, and finally decided against because a cleared-by-mod nooby-cop is less dangerous than an unknown, bandwagon-starting cop.
Also, I should never play scum while drinking for more than one night in a row. Never again...
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey all... I'm retired, not dead. Check out what I'm doing these days (and beg me to come back if you want):
Ugh, this is all such a pain because we had to switch Mods halfway into the game.
unvote, vote No Lynch.
Unvote, Vote No Lynch it is then.
No Lynch - 4 (ZeDorkSlipeur, Hyram, Mosschop, arimnaes)
Cyan - 1 (Salubrious)
And the town decides to get rid of this shady "No Lynch" character. It turns out that No Lynch was in fact the doctor all along... [/obv fake lynch scene]
So no one dies at the breakfast table today. Let's see what the night brings.
It is now NIGHT 3. Send in your actions - night will end by Sunday.
Affiliation: You don’t like villagers who have pitchforks and torches. None of these townies have pitchforks and torches. QED, you like the town. (town)
Abilities: Once per night, you may send me the name of one person. They will survive the night, guarenteed--mafia night-kills will not work on them. This is not culmulative, so don’t skip 2 nights then try to save multiple people. If you forget, then I’m sorry. Boo-hoo. Oh, and you can’t protect yourself.
Win Condition: All the non-town players are dead.
It is DAY 4. With 5 alive, it is 3 to lynch.
The last scum will kill you all anyway. Have a nice day!
Vote Arimnaes
By kingcobweb and Goblinboy.
Official Elitist of [thread=40859][RBS][/thread]
Sorry if I came off as really abrasive yesterday, Salubrious. I was trying to bully the town into doing something completely illogical, after all.
No idea what to make about your investigation, maybe Arimnaes will show up as Mafia Godfather and that'll sort everything out.
Of course, if he doesn't, your previous investigations seem totally invalidated now.
Anyway, Arimnaes is obviously the right vote still, we can figure out the rest tomorrow.
Plus, it seems pretty unlikely that we're going to lynch someone other than Arimnaes today, and discussions etc. tend to stagnate once you know whom you're going to lynch.
Lastly, clearly we'll be down to 1 Mafioso remaining once Arimnaes is lynched, and I'd rather keep the pressure on whomever that is and keep them on their toes than give them extra time today to plan out what they're going to do.
fos ZeDorkSlipeur. Why would we lynch the back-up back-up cop?
Then you'll love my lynch scene.
There is a tremendous flaw with that theory. That being, if Arimnaes were the Godfather and wanted Hyram to investigate him, the scum wouldn't have NKed Salubrious, and he definetely wouldn't have confessed and voted himself in the first few posts of the day. If he were legitimately the Mafia GF, then the Mafia would have killed one of us and let Salubrious live and tried to get him lynched today, clearly. It is flatly obvious that Hyram is receiving flawed investigations. I honestly can't see how/why you would even try to deny that.
As for the rest of that..people have been saying 'omfg you're soooo scummy' about me this entire game, and no one ever bothered to try to explain why. So yes, obviously, I was happy that someone seemed to be giving me the benefit of the doubt. If you made it all up, then, that makes me feel bad, but, it doesn't change the fact that I'm not scum.
As for Salubrious, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Also, nowhere do I defend Arimnaes, not today anyway. He's obviously scum, that is undebatable. To puncuate this fact, please see the fact that I'm voting him. Please point out, for the rest of us, where I 'defend' Arimnaes. I said that he's not the Mafia Godfather, because he obviously is not. Please explain the train of thought that would result in the Mafia God-father A)false-claiming Doc and then B)NKing the REAL Doc. There is simply no way that his could happen.
I guess there's nothing for it other than for someone to cast the final vote on Arimnaes so we can see his lynch scene and you can see that he is not the Mafia Godfather, since you're the only one that hasn't reached this conclusion.
Your vote isn't actually on Arimnaes at all, just so you're aware...you just FOSed him earlier. If your vote was on him, he'd be lynched.
See, now you're getting with the program.
EVERYBODY CLAP YOUR HANDS!!!
:dance::dance::banana::banana::dance::dance:
Whaaat? I thought you said you liked plot twists…
Curse you for trying to inject sanity back into this game!!!
Well, my lie in depth was this: I said I was the doctor and Salubrious was scum. Neither of these statements were true. But you didn't honestly expect me to claim scum, did you? Regardless of how entertaining it would have been…
Bwahaha! You fools! I already lynched myself, if you recall.
Wow, this is a lot of fun. If I'm ever scum again, I'm definitely claiming day 1 so that I can make inane, zany posts for the rest of the day, on my way to the gallows.
...
Whoops, I just reread ZDS's posts and realized there's actually some content I can respond to. Blasphemy!
I believe we went over this several dozen times yesterday. I was well aware that Hyram got roles, which was why I was so very screwed if I couldn't get you guys to lynch Salubrious yesterday. But I'm still pretty confident that the remaining scum has the town thoroughly conned.
I do hate it when my head exploses. It's most inconvenient.
But actually, no. WIFOM does have its place among scum tactics but I would much rather make the good play than make the absolutely terrible play just for the sake of WIFOMing the town. Of course, even the argument I'm giving right now is WIFOM, so... I dunno, you figure it out.
I demand satisfaction! I challenge you to a duel!
PS:
You commie!
Well then, hopefully fadeblue checks the thread soon. Tomorrow ought to be interesting.
arimnaes - 3 (arimnaes, Cyan, Mosschop)
What a quick day indeed! arimnaes leads the way to the chopping board and invites the town to take a swing. Cyan and Mosschop oblige, neatly slicing him up.
Rahlarimnaes, you are Count Chocula. You are a vampire. There’s no way that you aren’t a mafioso.Affiliation: All bloodsuckers are bad. You are a bloodsucker. Hmmm..... (mafia)
Abilities: You may speak to your mafia buddies at night. [snip]
It is now NIGHT 4. Send in your actions - night will end by Wednesday.
Affiliation: For sugary goodness at breakfast.(town)
Abilities: Once per night, you may send me the name of one person. I will tell you their official affiliation--but not their role name (eg. You will see “town cop” not “Captain Crunch” if you investigated yourself.) This is not culmulative, so don’t skip 2 nights then try to investigate multiple people. If you forget, then I’m sorry. Boo-hoo.
Win Condition: All the non-town players are dead.
It is DAY 5. With only 3 alive, it is 2 to lynch.
A)Because you were his biggest critic yesterday, there's no way that ZDS could have killed you, it's far too suspicious. Especially after that you told him that you realized that his 'apology and explanation are total BS'(which was the same as I thought) Similarly, if I were mafia, I would have killed you for exactly this reason. In fact, I did exactly that to Kops in Newb 7, if you'll recall, and it worked.
B)ZDS has been trying to cast suspicion on me ever since I decided that I didn't like the Pod lynch..if he would have NKed me now, and I showed up town, leaving you, him, and Hyram, it would have resulted in a very short day...for him.
Clearly he was between a rock and a hard place once he realized that his cover was more or less blown, and he panicked. His play yesterday supports this theory. For one thing, even though he repeatedly expressed that he was adamantly sure that Arimnaes was Mafia, he never voted him. Even after I said that, if left alive, Arimnaes would just try to confuse and WIFOM us(which is exactly what he did), and even after Arimnaes started doing exactly that, ZDS still expressed surity that Arimnaes was not only Mafia, but, the Mafia GF, but still would not cast a vote on him. Also, yesterday, one of the few intelligible things that ZDS said yesterday was:
Now, take a look over ZDS posts in general, yesterday, and tell me how they seem to you.
In summation, Hyram was the only person that ZDS could kill, really, IMO. Hell, Mosschop, if you were Mafia, you probably would have killed him as well. If I were Mafia, I'd have thought about it, but ultimately I'd have killed you, because Hyram could probably be swayed to vote ZDS, especially with you conveniently dying after what you had to say yesterday.
EBWODP:
Something I missed from earlier:
You forget that there was a back-up cop as well. I'm inclined to believe that he would have gotten normal results, and this was PF's compromise for balance against having backups for both the Cop and the Doc roles.
Even though your post reeks of defensiveness and WIFOM, I'll address each point individually anyway.
You mean the part where I felt like Pod might just be a newb instead of a scum, and unvoted him(and decided not to re-vote him), and you tried to pressure me into voting him anyway? Also, if you look back, it wasn't sudden, it was a gradual change of opinion on my part, largely sparked by another player requesting that I do so.
Thanks for agreeing with me.
You seemed panicky yesterday, to me. As for your cover not being blown..that statement is so much WIFOM that it's suspicious that you would even bother to make it.
Of course you said that, because, IMO, you needed more time to figure out how you were going to approach today, since your Ace-In-The-Hole(a Vanilla Townie investigation by Hyram) was completely blown out of the water. Also, what does Hyram not voting have to do with anything? Hyram didn't come out and say, over and over, (paraphrase) 'omfg Arimnaes must be the mafia GF, Hyram has to be a valid cop etc etc'. You did. But you didn't vote, and your 'reasoning' behind not voting doesn't wash, to me.
You're misrepresenting me here. I didn't say that you said that you repeatedly said that you wouldn't vote him. I said that you said(and you did), repeatedly that he was not only obviously scum, but, obviously the Mafia GodFather. I mean honestly, you were 'so sure' that he was the GF that you would 'use rude words' if he turned up mafia. Of course, obviously, you knew that he was mafia.
Confusing and very illogical, both of which you said were 'the only tactics that the Mafia had left at that point'(paraphrase).
...Did you even read what I said there? If I were Mafia, I would have killed Mosschop because Hyram would have been easier to sway to vote the way I wanted him to. I've played in back to back newb games w/ Mosschop, and he has never made a play that is even remotely resembling something hasty, nor was he ever really swayed by one of my arguments. For me, if I were Mafia, leaving Mosschop alive would be awful. Just because *I* realize that you, as Mafia, wouldn't kill Mosschop doesn't mean that A)Hyram would realize that or B)that I couldn't convince him that it was just WIFOM on your part when it came up(which it obviously would have). Besides, even if you did manage to turn it into an argument 'in your favor', killing Mosschop over Hyram would still benefit me significantly more than it would have benefited you. No matter how you try to put it, if I were mafia, it would be in my favor to have Hyram alive right now, and not Mosschop.
A blind, illiterate man..that's nice...you really seem like you're grasping at straws, the way you're constantly trying to belittle me in this post. I haven't been 'planning' anything at all, but even if I had, it couldn't have been since before the last day, since before then, I thought that Hyram was yeilding valid investigations...granted, once Arimnaes counterclaimed, I thought that one of you guys must have been the GF, but it didn't seem like the right time to bring up that conversation. Thankfully, you brought it up for me anyway. And no, I'm not going to come out of the doors on the absolute last day of the game voting someone. Unlike you, I actually want the town to win. The only thing that's more scummy than that is doing that at the exact same time as saying 'I like to give the town as much time as possible to discuss things'.
Something else, also. From his posts yesterday/the day before, Hyram didn't seem to think that I was scum anyway. So again, if I were scum, I clearly would have left Hyram alive, since he was already realizing that I'm town.
Also, as for your 'plan'..you've changed your statements about that multiple times now. If it was really just a 'plan', you would have brought this to light as soon as you 'caught me' with it..but you didn't..the day was stagnating and you tried to force a lynch anywhere you could, IMO. When that didn't work, you backpedaled with extreme haste and claimed that you were 'just trying to trick me'(which is partially true, I'd say, you were trying to trick me and some other townies into voting Mosschop). Today, you stated that it was NOT 'just a plan', and that you were just trying to add some drama into the thread(please explain to me why a townie would want to add drama and confusion to the thread). So, first you try to get a wagon started on Mosschop..that doesn't work, so you say it was a big plan to trick me..Mosschop doesn't believe you on that, so, you say that part was just a joke. Forgive me if I have no idea what you're saying anymore. Also, in an earlier post, you had already 'cast suspicion' on Mosschop by FOSing him for literally no reason(because he said that he was voting me because I must be mafia if I didn't counterclaim Doctor). It's pretty clear what happened here, IMO.
If it doesn't matter, why did you bring it up?
You were one of the main proponents of the Pod lynch..even when I, one of the other main proponents of it, started to have doubts, you continued to push it, to the point that you tried to bully me into getting back onto it. I'll have to go back and look during the days when you were a 'confirmed' townie...I had to reformat my comp about 10 days ago, and I lost all of my notes.
At that point, I remember feeling like he had been scummy in his minor amount of posting in the thread. I thought that he was mafia, and(at that point) that Rahl was the other Mafia. Everyone else had either A)claimed or B)been investigated already, so, it was safe for him to false-claim doc. Initially, I thought that he was scummier than Rahl, and even moreso when Arimnaes came along and claimed Doc as well. Obviously it turns out that I was being hard on Salubrious, as I have a tendency to do towards people that act scummy, and that I got duped by Arimnaes. Not much to say here. In a claim vs. counterclaim situation, you should virtually always believe the counterclaimant, because a Mafioso isn't going to fake claim into a 1 for 1 trade. Granted, we(the town) would have lost if Salubrious got lynched there, but, I got stuck in 'general practices' and believed the counter-claimant. And even then, I hadn't voted Salubrious, I was still waiting to see what he had to say. So no, clearly, I wasnt 'just trying to get the Doctor lynched' or I'd have voted him.
Yeah, I feel bad about that. I got discouraged because it seemed like I was the only one that thought Salubrious was scummy, and so I didn't bother. Later Arimnaes came along with his claim, and I thought that was all of the evidence that was needed.
Back to being mocking and condescending, I see. I think that it's very telling that, while you were 'confirmed' you acted one way(courteous, patient, etc), but, now that that fell through, your attitude has taken a huge turn towards the very scummy. This just re-confirms my opinion that you're acting out of desperation now, because the strategy that you've been using since Day 2 got kicked to the curb. IMO, if you were genuinely a townie, after Hyram's revelation, you would have tried to act MORE patient and courteous, but instead you just seem like you don't know what to do and you're panicking. And no, I wasn't, that was genuinely how I read that statement by fadeblue, I didn't think about the fact that we had a back-up doc.
Yeah, I believed Arimnaes, for reasons already stated(but again, I wasn't voting at that point, also for reasons already stated). I got duped by Arimnaes, whom was Mafia, and, one way or another(I contest that you were just trying to force a lynch on the only person that you reasonably could and win with the NK), I also got duped by you, whom it's seeming more and more to me is also Mafia.
It's also worth stating here: If you didn't believe Arimnaes, as you claim, then you should have been voting him, right? I mean, afterall, when someone counterclaims and you don't believe them, they pretty clearly have to be scum. But I guess you wouldn't want to vote away your scum buddy without a last ditch desperation effort at getting some other townie(Mosschop) lynched. How convenient that, the next day, once you realized that you weren't confirmed anymore, it just so happened that you 'didn't really mean it(well, you didn't yesterday, but according to what you say today, you were just joking when you said that you didn't mean it..I'm very interested in hearing what you have to say here.
What are you talking about? Also, I feel that it's worth mentioning that Mosschop took me up on my request that he present actual evidence as to why I was scummy, and when he did so, he came to the independent conclusion that I was alot less scummy than he remembered.
I said 'somewhat under the spotlight', and, IMO, he was somewhat under the spotlight.
I really don't feel like he defended himself at all. And even if he did, he didn't do so adequately.
Like I said, I fell into the 'in a claim vs. counterclaim scenario, you believe the counterclaimant'. Besides, you keep bringing this up, but for all of that, I was not voting Salubrious. I was naturally inclined to believe Arimnaes, because usually that's how it works..but I was still willing to let Salubrious try to defend himself...which he never really did accurately.
If it would have been suicide for anyone, why are you trying to bring it up against me specifically?
Why is that important? I made that post immediately after reading Hyram's post, before I'd had a chance to really think about it and realize that it was an impossibility.
Where do I say that I want Mosschop to vote someone? Where do I even give that impression? I'm trying to use logic and rationale to explain why I am town and you are not, and you're apparently trying to get me speedlynched so that the mafia/you can win the game.
IMO, this post was pretty telling of your scumminess. Like I said, throughout the game I felt like you had alot of scummy posts, but, I wrote them off because you had gotten an investigation that not only said 'town', but said 'Vanilla Townie'(I thought that a Godfather would just have come back as 'Town', so, at first, it didn't seem like that role was a possibility, not until Vanilla Townie came back for both of you, and, one of the two people that I thought was scum claimed Doc, in a counter-claim, which is generally something that you accept, unless the other claimant dies and gives away the lie. At that point, as I said earlier, it seemed like there must be a Godfather, since there was no other logical explanation). I also wrote them off because, even though you had alot of scummy posts, you did exhibit alot of patience and willingness to let people think things through, etc. Of course, again, that was when we all thought you were confirmed..in the times that we weren't as sure(all of Day 1, Day 2 before Hyram revealed his investigation results, yesterday and today), you've been a totally different person, and significantly more scummy, which I can only guess is because you're feeling desperate. If that's not it, feel free to explain it to us.
Cyan - 2 (ZeDorkSlipeur, Mosschop)
The votes are in! ZDS and Mosschop restrain the flailing Cyan and drop him into a vat of boiling hot chocolate. Ouch.
But now, the moment you've all been waiting for! Was Cyan really Mafia? Or was it Mosschop, who placed the final vote? Or was ZDS being sneaky and swayed Mosschop to his side?
Drumroll please!
*waits*
Affiliation: You really want to keep people healthy, even if it means killing. (mafia)
Abilities: You may speak to your mafia buddies at night. [snip]
GAME OVER! Congratulations Town!
More comments to come later.
Honestly, we never really had a chance of winning until very late in the game. 1/2 the town had roles, which makes it ridiculously hard to get anyone mislynched, since it was very likely that they'd just have some power role to claim. I'm surprised that there wasn't a Vig too, maybe that was Lightster's role.
Ironically, I thought this entire time that Arimnaes was a Mafia Godfather, for w/e reason(I guess it was hard to believe that Rahl's role was Vanilla Scum with Count Chocula as his rolename). So yeah, the other day when Arimnaes PMs me and is like 'I'm dead when I get investigated' I was like uhhhh...whoops. I didn't think we had much of a shot there, and then we found out about Hyram.
By the way, I think that Hyram actually got a scum investigation on Arimnaes, and he was just trying to be clever, hoping that he'd get to stay alive and could reveal his plot today..that was why I lynched him instead of Mosschop. That and, even if he's a Naive Cop, he's still a confirmed townie. It seems like his character paste from fadeblue would have a 'mod note' if he were actually going to receive vanilla townie results from everyone, and it doesn't appear that he did. Plus, Annorax and I had the *exact* same flavor for being Mafia, which was fairly retarded, and then Rahl was just randomly 'Count Chocula'. Oh, also, the Mafia are the last 3 people on the player list, which I noticed immediately, so that was nice. Oh well. I kind of gave up once Salubrious claimed Doc, but it got interesting again when Arimnaes came along and claimed Doc(I thought he was GodFather at the time, so).
Then there was myself vs. Hyram on Day 2. When he came out of the gates immediately attacking me, and literally making up/falsifying information to do so, I was *sure* that he was Cop, had gotten a scum investigation on me, and was trying to get me lynched w/o having to claim, hence the Miller claim. I had to laugh and roll my eyes when he said that he had investigated ZDS.
It's kind of frustrating that I lost to a vote count, as I think I would have been able to turn Mosschop against ZDS, otherwise...but oh well, that's life. Anyway, that's that. I'm disappointed that I didn't win(Rahl and Annorax basically helped me zero throughout the entire game, especially with Rahl going out of his way to PBPA me etc, though Arimnaes helped alot more than I thought he'd be able to)...but I'm not disappointed that the game is over. I don't think I'm cut out for newb games, you can't play the 'reasonable doubt' game enough in them. Anyway. Good job guys.
..Mosschop especially, you're very good at playing a townie...it's always painfully obvious that you're not scum, you don't even leave anything that can really be turned against you. Congratulations.
You know what actually won the game for the town? The fact that Mosschop suggested No Lynch. Normally, suggesting No Lynch is really scummy, but the town was actually in one of the rare positions in which it was profitable, with a claimed role-getting cop alive, the mafia roleblocker dead, and two people claiming doc. I was really, really hoping that no one would think of it.
What I really want to know is what was up with Hyram's innocent investigation on me. There isn't, wasn't, and never was a Godfather. Or, if I was a GF, my PM made no mention whatsoever about it. Which means either he was a Naive Cop (which I would never expect from a noob game), or there was mod error on fadeblue's part (which is equally unlikely.) I don't see how Hyram could even have been investigating naive after we switched mods, because his naivete obviously wouldn't be in his PM.
-This game needed to have been reviewed. I'm fairly sure that if PF had not disappeared and the game had continued normally, it would have ended in a decisive victory for the town. A Newb game should not include both a backup cop and backup doc, even if the Mafia have a roleblocker. There are simply not enough days in a small game to counterbalance that power.
-One thing that gave the Mafia some breathing room was Hyram's botched investigation. I don't know yet if he was trying to be clever or was genuinely mistaken (though I think it's the latter). I did my part and asked him to send back what I sent him, just to make sure it wasn't an error on my part, and he quoted it back to me intact: "arimnaes is a VANILLA MAFIA". Perhaps the inclusion of the word "vanilla" misled him.
-I'm glad at least Mosschop finally noticed the lack of speedlynch at 6 players. I saw it when it came up and wondered if anyone would catch it.
-IMO, arimnaes made a good play upon replacing. There sometimes comes a point for the Mafia where you lose if you don't try to counterclaim and play the cointoss. Unfortunately, it came too late, as the rest of the town correctly realized that it was safer lynching Cyan than trying to guess the right doc - which of course resulted in the suggestion of a no-lynch.
-By the way, even numbers during the day usually favor the Mafia. No lynching with 6 people left in a standard game is reasonable play, particularly when you have a cop role remaining and a doc to protect it.
If Arim was GF then the game was lost when he falseclaimed doc. The best play I see was to get Cyan lynched, draw an investigation, and then make a convincing case against one of the vanilla townies.
If Arim was vanilla then the game was lost when Lightster was mod-killed. There's very little way the scum could've won then, with all the confirmed players.
Isn't it interesting that both back-up roles were killed before the "real" roles?
EDIT: WHAAAAA I got ninjaed and I wasy typing fast.
lol poor Hyram... that could've well turned the play for the mafia if the claims had been a little different.
also in retrospect I'm kinda disappointed we didn't lynch cyan sooner, as in from when he claimed miller. Seems to me that would be a prudent play in non-lynch-or-lose situations.
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
Honestly, the only reason the mafia were even in the game at all was that Lightster got modkilled, sending the town into LyLo.
Edit:
If I had replaced as town, my first post would have been:
As it was, though, I not only had to pretend that the miller claim was plausible, but also somehow shift the general perception from "There can't be a GF" to "There must be a GF!"
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
Then Annorax came along and basically made everything alot worse for us. Which is odd, as normally, he's a good player.
As for being 'predictable', I consistently use the same style of playing(regardless of my affiliation) for just that reason..it's consistent. It's too easy for people to pick up on it when you act one way in one game, and another way in another.
Anyway, I'd be interested to hear from Hyram. It's pretty funny that what seems like a really desperate(and unnecessary) gambit on his part almost let the mafia win the game, when we essentially had no shot otherwise(I was going to have to try to convince a Mafia GodFather into the game, which would have been a fascinatingly difficult task).
I'm surprised, and a little disappointed, to hear that this game was never reviewed; I thought that all Newb games had to be reviewed..but eh, them's the breaks.
Oh, and I really, really shot myself in the foot with that Miller claim, after saying that I didn't believe Pod because the role wasn't normal for Newb Mafia..blah...I had to put so much(too much) effort into getting Pod lynched that I forgot alot of what I'd said to do so. Not that I really had a choice, we had to get him lynched somehow.
I still think that Hyram only didn't get Mod-Killed because he was The Cop, too bad PF isn't around to comment on that. It's just the only thing that makes sense..suspending a person for a day is pretty random, and he was already pissed off because of the invisitext thing. If he'd gotten mod-killed, like he should have, it would have changed things an awful lot. But, I digress.
Edit:
I agree w/ Hooga. As soon as Lighster got killed and we found out that he had been Vanilla, we were essentially done for. Everyone else had either been cleared by Hyram(I'll never figure out why he investigated Mosschop, btw), or, had a role to claim..there was nothing we could do, other than what Arimnaes did, and sadly Mosschop thought of the No Lynch.
BTW why did you NK Silent Prophet night 1?
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
Although the cards were stacked against them to begin with, the mafia really lost this game during day 1 and the beginning of day 2. They were almost universally aggressive and hyperactive... the exact opposite of how we played in Newb 7, when we had the perfect win.
PS: Who's hosting the next newb game?
PPS: This game supports my hypothesis, that I'm only scum when I replace in newb games.
PPPS:
Er, that was a joke...
@Arimnaes: No one even believed miller, miller-doctor would have been utterly impossible. Also, nymphe wasn't aggressive on Day 1, he/she was non-existant..which didn't help matters. I got away with ALOT in Newb 7 because it was my first game, I couldn't have gotten away w/ that again, I don't think, especially since Hooga and Mosschop were repeats.
By kingcobweb and Goblinboy.
Official Elitist of [thread=40859][RBS][/thread]
I didn't think I had a very good chance, because doing so required extensive craplogic. But I decided even before my first post that forcing the town to choose between you and I was the only chance the mafia would possibly have at winning, because everyone else was cop-cleared. When that plan failed, we just decided to kill you and hope to con the town into thinking there was a GF, because it would logically be either Mosschop or ZDS.
Sig and Avvy by Mr. Stuff
Looking for people to test T2 with me on MWS, Pacific or Mountain time preffered
IIRC that was essentially a random choice. The obvious choice of Hyram was debated, and finally decided against because a cleared-by-mod nooby-cop is less dangerous than an unknown, bandwagon-starting cop.
Also, I should never play scum while drinking for more than one night in a row. Never again...
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
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