First of all, HC is Anastasia. Annorax is the czar.
Second of all, where exactly did the idea of a miller come from? I'll agree that it's flavorful, but we currently have no in-game reason to think that. At least, not that I can tell.
HC, I think you'll want to spill if you're a miller, or if there's some other major aspect of your role that might condemn you.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
HC, I think you'll want to spill if you're a miller, or if there's some other major aspect of your role that might condemn you.
I highly doubt he would know if he was a miller and the above could be fishing. In this case we know alot already, but still.
And for those who do not know a miller is a townie who shows up mafia when investigated.
I see the flavor in it but who knows how much the flavor has to do with this game. I mean, look at the lyrics, we could probably come up with alot. (Don't post in thread, of coarse.)
Millers aren't always told theyre millers, and millers arent always vanilla. Often they have an abiliy to compensate for their being a miller.
Right now I'm guessing HC is town and Raf is just trying to make an otherwise boring set of roles interesting. If I were HC and mafia and Anastasia, I'd wait to see if anyone else mentioned role knowledge before posting. I also think theres enough potential mafia roles for Anastasia to be a townie rather than mafia (few possible roles are mentioned in the song).
Millers are very often told that they are millers, though admittedly not necessarily.
And it certainly is not fishing to request a townie do something that he would have to do if he were townie. Not claiming miller or anything similar would be extremely irresponsible.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
All games I've played in that had a miller, the miller knew it. Why wouldn't they? Do you think that by telling the town that they will be investigated as innocent, they will be considered less suspicious?
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
All games I've played in that had a miller, the miller knew it. Why wouldn't they? Do you think that by telling the town that they will be investigated as innocent, they will be considered less suspicious?
Wait a sec, perhaps I'm working under a different definition of Miller than you are.
I was under the assumption a Miller is a townie that upon cop investigation shows as guilty...
Somebody is in Invisimode, and since Abso just posted without showing up at the bottom, I'd say it is Absolutionis. Get out of it.
I've mostly heard of millers not knowing about it as well. That way it becomes much more chaotic. They then believe that the cop is false, and when the town lynchs them, the town then thinks that the cop is scum, etc.
And why am I worth pressuring above anybody else? I know Annorax is town (After he claimed), and that his role is czar. I am Anatasia. I don't see why that would make me scummy. Perhaps I don't understand the case against me.
CP, how can you be "on the fence" with me without reasons? I'd like to know why I'm being suspected.
There is no part of my role that would condemn me, except for apparently this "ability".
HC, while I'm willing to grant that it's very possible that you are innocent, there is both a good flavor reason and a good mechanical reason to think you aren't. That's two reasons, not none.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
If we have a cop, I would love for him to investigate Annorax. We may have a miller on our hands.
If not, 'rax is scum, and Anastasia's screams in vain that he is town are (obviously) unsuccessful. Or should be.
It's just a theory, but it's heavily supported by the lyrics.
Listen to the song again, and crossreference it with real life. Anastasia was present with, and probably died with, her family. Wouldn't you also scream out if your family photo shoot turned out to be an execution?
@Cop: Investigate me so that we can finally lay this crap to rest and lynch Feuerdrache like the scum he is.
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Listen to the song again, and crossreference it with real life. Anastasia was present with, and probably died with, her family. Wouldn't you also scream out if your family photo shoot turned out to be an execution?
@Cop: Investigate me so that we can finally lay this crap to rest and lynch Feuerdrache like the scum he is.
Here's the wiki on the Anastasia I think you're talking about. If this is the Anastasia, then that would support Annorax and Hunted Charlie's claims, at least in a flavor sense.
I still don't see either of the reasons you're talking about. In the song, Anatasia screams because she is being murdered. Why is that scummy?
And the mechanical reason doesn't exist, I believe. Unless you mean the fact that the Czar doesn't know that I am town. And I don't see why that is a reason that I'm scum.
Basically, I think the case against me is nonexistent. If necessary, investigate me tonight to clear both me and Annorax (Annorax and I).
I still don't see either of the reasons you're talking about. In the song, Anatasia screams because she is being murdered. Why is that scummy?
And the mechanical reason doesn't exist, I believe. Unless you mean the fact that the Czar doesn't know that I am town. And I don't see why that is a reason that I'm scum.
Basically, I think the case against me is nonexistent. If necessary, investigate me tonight to clear both me and Annorax (Annorax and I).
That's what I said. It would be difficult for you to be scum.
I'm in favor of an investigation of Annorax.
I'm for an Anastasia investigation personally, being that HC said that he knows the czar is town, but Annorax doesn't know anastasia is town... therefore anastasia is a better investigation target IMO
also, @ CF, I assume you meant twomz, not treigit, right? I suppose we could look into him, but I don't think there's really anything definitive either way for him, it being day1 obviously.
I don't really have a scumlist but here's my town list:
1)me
2)HC
3)Annorax
CP almost made it on there, but I'm not quite sure for him
I'm really not sure where we should be headed for now, though...
I'm for an Anastasia investigation personally, being that HC said that he knows the czar is town, but Annorax doesn't know anastasia is town... therefore anastasia is a better investigation target IMO
also, @ CF, I assume you meant twomz, not treigit, right? I suppose we could look into him, but I don't think there's really anything definitive either way for him, it being day1 obviously.
I don't really have a scumlist but here's my town list:
1)me
2)HC
3)Annorax
CP almost made it on there, but I'm not quite sure for him
I'm really not sure where we should be headed for now, though...
But Annorax is more contentious than Hunted Charlie. If anything, we should investigate Annorax so we have a reason to lynch Feuerdrache.
But Annorax is more contentious than Hunted Charlie. If anything, we should investigate Annorax so we have a reason to lynch Feuerdrache.
I'm at a loss. Since when is this kind of thinking considered good play?
Annorax is not scum unless HC is lying about being able to clear him. If HC is innocent, there is no way that Annorax can be scum. It doesn't matter how contentious he is compared to HC, because he can't realistically be scum unless HC is. An investigation of Annorax would be a wasted investigation. Are we clear on that point?
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I'm at a loss. Since when is this kind of thinking considered good play?
Annorax is not scum unless HC is lying about being able to clear him. If HC is innocent, there is no way that Annorax can be scum. It doesn't matter how contentious he is compared to HC, because he can't realistically be scum unless HC is. An investigation of Annorax would be a wasted investigation. Are we clear on that point?
I'm confused. Did HC say he could clear him or just that that name was clear? Because Annorax could just as easily be a lying scum.
But I may be wrong. If I am, I withdraw the statement. If we really wanted something to work with, we should either investigate or lynch Feuer. He's the most suspicious player right now, and he's the only thing we have to work with.
I don't think there's such thing as a "good" day one play. Just lucky day one plays and "hurrah, we didn't lynch the cop or the doc!"
But that may just be me. If we're going to lynch someone based on scummy behavior, i think Feuer is the way to go. The whole miller argument has him firmly set in my scumdar right now.
In fact... unvote, vote: Feuerdrache
Raf, can we have a votecount? There hasn't been one for at least 4 pages.
I still don't understand when the whole miller idea started. I think it was a baseless idea that somehow caught on.
Yes, Xyre, only the name is clear, but I'd assume that if anybody else was the czar, they'd have counterclaimed. I do know that the czar is in the game, you know.
We may as well investigate me tonight. I can clear Annorax instantly once I'm clear.
This still leaves the problem of who to lynch today. I just don't know...
I still don't understand when the whole miller idea started. I think it was a baseless idea that somehow caught on.
Yes, Xyre, only the name is clear, but I'd assume that if anybody else was the czar, they'd have counterclaimed. I do know that the czar is in the game, you know.
We may as well investigate me tonight. I can clear Annorax instantly once I'm clear.
This still leaves the problem of who to lynch today. I just don't know...
Feuerdrache proposed it to direct attention away from himself.
Unvote. Vote Feuerdrache.
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HC: the miller idea came from Feuer as pure speculation. I don't think anyone actually has a reason to think you are a miller. And I'm happy to let the cop inspect you for now.
Feuer deserves a chance to speak, so no more votes for now, please. I think he's currently at three, again, which should be plenty.
And Feuer, keep in mind when you respond that this is Day 1, so saying that there isn't much of a case against you isn't an appropriate defense, unless we're missing out on a better target. I would like to hear more about your suspicions on C_F, if nothing else.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Interestingly enough, the attention seems to have gone back at Feuer. But currently I don't think there's actually any case he could respond to. I could maybe put something further together myself, but actually I'd be interested in seeing what some of the people currently voting him can come up with.
Please tell me you were joking. "Just kill him to end the day"?
Unvote, Vote Xyre
I'll unvote immediately after you confirm that was a miswording.
Do you have a better suggestion? I know it's very Baby Jesus of me, but I'd much rather lynch the most suspicious player to get information than to banter about things like this:
Remember, kids... bittorrent and mafia games don't mix. Yesterday 08:52 PM
We haven't had any serious content. I really don't care what we do, but we need to do something.
I'm cautious of lynching Feuer before he's claimed-one reason I didn't vote. Four out of seven may be too much pressure, but I'm frankly concerned that right now, the only information I have to work with is my role, and the Anastasia-Czar information (which took far too long to work through).
I get your reason for not wanting a rash lynch, but consider the alternative: a no lynch definitely gets us nowhere, and right now, we need to lynch someone. The mafia's playing very carefully, and they aren't giving up any ground. Face it-they aren't likely to make a fatal mistake this early, and after this many posts.
Frankly, I don't think Feuer's that scummy. I posted a list of reasons a while back why I thought he wasn't. But I also think we need to do something, and unless there are four mafia, I think we can afford to sacrifice a townie. Of course, if he's the cop or doctor, then we'll need him, and he can claim that. But he's the only scummy player out right now, and the lack of content we're seeing give us only one actual way to play.
It's a bandwagon, sure, but this is one bandwagon we need to be on, just so we know what we're dealing with.
No offense, Jameson, but bandwagons are sometimes a necessary evil. Vote Feuerdrache, with an apology.
No suggestion yet, just an appeal not to rush. I'm not taking my vote off you. This is a thouroughly scummy plan because we haven't found a good candidate yet. Lynching a townie is NEVER good.
HC: lynching a townie might never be good, but it is often necessary. You can't refuse to lynch someone because he might be town.
Xyre: I disagree that lynching Feuer on the basis that we will gain information is a great plan at this point. I'm curious what information you think we will gain, because from what I see, there has been a great deal of waffling and neutrality from most of the players regarding the issue. He's done some scummy things, but few players have responded to him in any way that could constitute a valid tell, either way.
If we decide that Feuer is worthy of more pressure, we will really need to find a way to get everyone's reactions and opinions before ending the day.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
HC: lynching a townie might never be good, but it is often necessary. You can't refuse to lynch someone because he might be town.
What a chilling summary of how the game works. Seriously, you were sarnathed by about a million years.
Quote from carrion pigeons »
Xyre: I disagree that lynching Feuer on the basis that we will gain information is a great plan at this point. I'm curious what information you think we will gain, because from what I see, there has been a great deal of waffling and neutrality from most of the players regarding the issue. He's done some scummy things, but few players have responded to him in any way that could constitute a valid tell, either way.
Lynching Feuerdrache for more information seems to be the only reasonable play anyone's come up with yet. If you truly have a better idea, please, post it.
Quote from carrion pigeons »
If we decide that Feuer is worthy of more pressure, we will really need to find a way to get everyone's reactions and opinions before ending the day.
FoS: carrion pigeons
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I really don't like lynching somebody on such a weak basis. Even for a Day 1 lynch, this is positively horrible. This is my reaction. Feuer has given out a bit of a scummy vibe at the beginning, made a few missteps, but nothing that should give him more than a few FOSes. He is a bad lynch and I doubt he is scum.
If we do hit scum today, it will be mostly on the basis of luck. This is indisputable. I don't believe anybody here feels strongly that Feuer is scum. So why are trying to go to Night fast with a probable townie lynch? Don't the scum want to go to Night fast with a probable townie lynch? Why are we doing their job for them?
I pretty much agree. To begin with the case on Feuer is not very strong. I think everyone knows that at this point. So we have to ask ourshelves, what does lynching him net us? And I also have to say the answer with this is very little. We end the day, sure. But if we end the day with a townie lynch it does not matter. As for information there is little to gain from a feuer lynch at this point.
I think that the best play is to just keep going and strech this day out. It is Day 1 of coarse.
I pretty much agree. To begin with the case on Feuer is not very strong. I think everyone knows that at this point. So we have to ask ourshelves, what does lynching him net us? And I also have to say the answer with this is very little. We end the day, sure. But if we end the day with a townie lynch it does not matter. As for information there is little to gain from a feuer lynch at this point.
I think that the best play is to just keep going and strech this day out. It is Day 1 of coarse.
Is there any kind of a case against anyone else? The only things I'm seeing are HC being a random dangerous unknown and carrion pigeons being carrion pigeons. Could one of them be more worthy of the information lynching?
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What a chilling summary of how the game works. Seriously, you were sarnathed by about a million years.
Lynching Feuerdrache for more information seems to be the only reasonable play anyone's come up with yet. If you truly have a better idea, please, post it.
FoS: carrion pigeons
I was sarnath'd how, exactly? In case you didn't notice, I was responding to HC's comment that lynching someone who might be town is a bad idea, which is a dumb argument.
Lynching Feuerdrache for information is a tactic that WILL fail. You didn't answer my question: what info do you think we would get be lynching Feuer?
I'm all for lynching Feuer if we honestly think he's a good target, but this reasoning is stupid.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I was sarnath'd how, exactly? In case you didn't notice, I was responding to HC's comment that lynching someone who might be town is a bad idea, which is a dumb argument.
Lynching Feuerdrache for information is a tactic that WILL fail. You didn't answer my question: what info do you think we would get be lynching Feuer?
I'm all for lynching Feuer if we honestly think he's a good target, but this reasoning is stupid.
Then let me provide partially stupid, yet wholly relevant reasoning from a brain that's been up and running for 32 hours so far: Do you have a better target in mind? I'm all for lynching a better target should one pop up, but I'm just not seeing one yet.
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As I said, I'm happy to pressure Feuer for the moment. But we can't just say, "Oh well, this day is slow so let's just lynch someone who seems to have gotten some attention." We need to actually get people to make a case against him, get him to respond to the case, and go from there.
I have already made my case; I want to see what other people have to offer, and whether or not they think that Feuer deserves the attention on him, and if not, who they think does deserve attention.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Feuer is my no. 1 suspect because his miller arguement rubbed me the wrong way. It just felt like he was scum trying to sow doubt against the(if we have one) cop amoungst the town. Now, i can understand thinking that a certain player is a miller, but there is really no reason to even suggest someone is unless there's something in their PM that suggests it, or that there is a guilty investigation on them yet there is reason to believe that they're town (I'm not sure what the percentage is... but most miller claims are mafia fake claims anyway).
It's not really a good reason... but hey, it's what you expect from day 1 no? Feuer defending himself some would be a nice change of pace as well.
Alright, sorry for the absence. Long weekend, Spring Break ending, school starting up, etc.
Look, I'm sorry I ever brought it up. Like I said earlier, it was just a stray thought. I probably should not have said anything, but it was a curiosity in the lyrics I probably overanalyzed. I don't like this, though:
Quote from Annorax »
Listen to the song again, and crossreference it with real life. Anastasia was present with, and probably died with, her family. Wouldn't you also scream out if your family photo shoot turned out to be an execution?
I'm not stupid, Annorax, and I don't think you are either. So stop being dense. I was referring to the fact that she screamed in vain, and relating that to Mafia. But I'm dropping the point right now, as I never intended it as an honest theory, and it's just drawn me like 3 or 4 votes in a row.
I don't have any evidence to point at others. The scum are hiding extremely well. I think it's pretty nuts that the only people any of the town are any bit sure of are Hunted Charlie and Annorax, who so far are only confirmed by each other and by no other information. It could very easily be a mafia ploy, quick and dirty. Think about it - if they pulled it off, the cop wouldn't investigate either of them until it was too late. We have no proof that either is who they say they are, or even that Anastasia or the czar are in the game. I'm not going to point too many fingers at the two people everyone seems to have cleared, but I want to keep you guys on your toes here. You can't trust anyone in Mafia, especially not on Day 1.
But enough with my little psychology rant. Like I said, no evidence that either of them is scum, but the only cases that have been brought against me are weak scum "tells," with no real evidence of scum behavior. So just keep it in mind that this whole game is all in your heads so far.
An Xyre lynch for doing something that I consider very scummy?
You're kidding.
You're not kidding.
Seriously, do we have a better target than Feuer? Right now, unless someone comes forward with something new, I don't see anything else to do. But I'll Unvote Feuerdrache.
I'm not kidding, just aggressive and stupid. An Xyre lynch would be preferable to me over a Feuer lynch.
Come to think of it, Unvote, Vote Xyre.
"An Xyre"?
Think about it. There's been no content on this thread. Period. Review the points I outlined. If there was a better lynch, I'd vote on it, but we have nothing to work with. No content; nothing but the Anastasia/Czar claims, which clear you and Annorax, for the most part.
Feuerdrache's been a target all thread. Even you can't deny that. I definitely would back off if he claimed/was cleared/gave a sufficient reason, but I haven't see that.
So the ball's back in your court, Charlie. How has Feuerdrache not made scummy plays?
I'll admit it myself-I defended Jameson. I would much rather lynch scum than a townie, and I definitely think Jameson is innocent. But what else do we have to deal with? At this point, I'd be willing to vote No Lynch to deal with this mess. But I still think that the primary job we have right now is to acquire information. If we catch scum, so much the better, but it's likely not going to happen.
If you'd read Jameson's post, you'd see this:
Quote from Feuerdrache »
I don't have any evidence to point at others. The scum are hiding extremely well. I think it's pretty nuts that the only people any of the town are any bit sure of are Hunted Charlie and Annorax, who so far are only confirmed by each other and by no other information. It could very easily be a mafia ploy, quick and dirty. Think about it - if they pulled it off, the cop wouldn't investigate either of them until it was too late. We have no proof that either is who they say they are, or even that Anastasia or the czar are in the game. I'm not going to point too many fingers at the two people everyone seems to have cleared, but I want to keep you guys on your toes here. You can't trust anyone in Mafia, especially not on Day 1.
But enough with my little psychology rant. Like I said, no evidence that either of them is scum, but the only cases that have been brought against me are weak scum "tells," with no real evidence of scum behavior. So just keep it in mind that this whole game is all in your heads so far.
which is exactly what I've been saying.
There are no "scum tells", period. Name a time when you caught a scum with a scum "tell", and I'll give you five instances of catching a townie who wasn't paying attention or wasn't thinking. Your evidence is based on a "scum tell" that doesn't tell anything. Think, Charlie!
Think about it- if Feuer was a townie (which he could claim at any time, by the way, which would give us a reason to stop), and he was lynched, then we would know his arguments were credible and we needed to review some people who pushed on him.
But pushing a lynch is, again, not a scum tell.
Quote from Carrion Pigeons »
HC: lynching a townie might never be good, but it is often necessary. You can't refuse to lynch someone because he might be town.
Think about it: you're so caught up on catching scum, you've lost contact with the basic evil of mafia: you need to lynch some townies to find the scum. The point is to find the mafia before you kill all the townies.
(apologies if that sounded too pessimistic)
I'll repeat it: I don't think Jameson is scum. I myself have been in multiple situations where I was town, made a few bad calls, and was lynched/bandwagoned/nightkilled for it. But that doesn't mean that you can call scum tells on me and say I'm scum.
In fact, I don't understand why you're so caught up on "scum tells". Are scum tells ever telling? Hells no. The only thing scum tells are good for is for rooting out the bad players. If you are going to base your case on scum tells, however, you have no case at all.
Here's your case, summarized in your last few posts.
Quote from 186 »
Please tell me you were joking. "Just kill him to end the day"?
Unvote, Vote Xyre
I'll unvote immediately after you confirm that was a miswording.
"A miswording"? What's wrong with what I said. Pardon my Baby Jesus play, but at the very worst, I was putting pressure on him. Why in the world would I say I'm going to trust him, and then lynch him?
Quote from 188 »
No suggestion yet, just an appeal not to rush. I'm not taking my vote off you. This is a thouroughly scummy plan because we haven't found a good candidate yet. Lynching a townie is NEVER good.
This is a new development. He's a townie now? Since when? Let the man claim!
CP interrupts, and counters my claim with some logic. Annorax backs me up and FOSes him. Then this:
Quote from 191 »
I really don't like lynching somebody on such a weak basis. Even for a Day 1 lynch, this is positively horrible. This is my reaction. Feuer has given out a bit of a scummy vibe at the beginning, made a few missteps, but nothing that should give him more than a few FOSes. He is a bad lynch and I doubt he is scum.
If we do hit scum today, it will be mostly on the basis of luck. This is indisputable. I don't believe anybody here feels strongly that Feuer is scum. So why are trying to go to Night fast with a probable townie lynch? Don't the scum want to go to Night fast with a probable townie lynch? Why are we doing their job for them?
I don't support the Feuer lynch. At all.
(emphasis mine) Thank you for making my case. If we're going off "scum tells", then why don't we just go with the scummy man with a target on his back and get "lucky"?
Quote from 200 »
An Xyre lynch for doing something that I consider very scummy?
Again. I didn't hear it the first time, sir.
I'm not kidding, just aggressive and stupid. An Xyre lynch would be preferable to me over a Feuer lynch.
Come to think of it, Unvote, Vote Xyre.
More "scum tells" nonsense.
Face it, Charlie: you don't have any backing for your claim that we're guaranteed to lynch a townie. You're making assumptions, and they're partially based on your misunderstanding of Day 1 practice. It's very rare to lynch scum Day 1, especially when they're playing very tightly.
We aren't guaranteed to lynch a townie. I just think that Feuer is too likely to be a townie to be a lynch, at all.
Tell you what. You tell me just what Feuer has done to make him the "scummy man", not just in terms of "what he said" or "acting scummy", and I'll ask for a Feuer claim.
OK?
Wait, that came out wrong. I mean, judge him by what he said, of course, I just meant that I don't want you to say "Y'know, what Annorax said" or something.
vote xyre. getting fed up is not something a townie should do, as that hands the game to the mafia. day is townie time, night is mafia time (even for power roles like the inspector). The only people pushing for a feud lynch should be those who think he is genuinely scummy; otherwise, they are facilitating the mafia and encouraging the mafia to keep the game uninteresting.
You know what the better idea to lynching feud is? waiting for the mafia to make a move to try and lynch him.
I dunno, what Xyre says does seem to make sense, though. I mean, I am new to the game, that's true enough, but it does seem that the odds of catching mafia on the first day are low, at best.
I dunno, what Xyre says does seem to make sense, though. I mean, I am new to the game, that's true enough, but it does seem that the odds of catching mafia on the first day are low, at best.
That still doesn't mean you lynch someone you believe to be town to get to night. Night info is useful, but usually the life of a townie is considered more important - unless that townie is proving him or herself worthless in terms of finding scum.
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Second of all, where exactly did the idea of a miller come from? I'll agree that it's flavorful, but we currently have no in-game reason to think that. At least, not that I can tell.
HC, I think you'll want to spill if you're a miller, or if there's some other major aspect of your role that might condemn you.
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I highly doubt he would know if he was a miller and the above could be fishing. In this case we know alot already, but still.
And for those who do not know a miller is a townie who shows up mafia when investigated.
I see the flavor in it but who knows how much the flavor has to do with this game. I mean, look at the lyrics, we could probably come up with alot. (Don't post in thread, of coarse.)
Right now I'm guessing HC is town and Raf is just trying to make an otherwise boring set of roles interesting. If I were HC and mafia and Anastasia, I'd wait to see if anyone else mentioned role knowledge before posting. I also think theres enough potential mafia roles for Anastasia to be a townie rather than mafia (few possible roles are mentioned in the song).
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22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
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Millers are very often told that they are millers, though admittedly not necessarily.
And it certainly is not fishing to request a townie do something that he would have to do if he were townie. Not claiming miller or anything similar would be extremely irresponsible.
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From what I read and seen around, Millers don't know they are millers. It slightly ruins the point.
Either way, being a miller means you're screwed.
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Wait a sec, perhaps I'm working under a different definition of Miller than you are.
I was under the assumption a Miller is a townie that upon cop investigation shows as guilty...
I've mostly heard of millers not knowing about it as well. That way it becomes much more chaotic. They then believe that the cop is false, and when the town lynchs them, the town then thinks that the cop is scum, etc.
And why am I worth pressuring above anybody else? I know Annorax is town (After he claimed), and that his role is czar. I am Anatasia. I don't see why that would make me scummy. Perhaps I don't understand the case against me.
CP, how can you be "on the fence" with me without reasons? I'd like to know why I'm being suspected.
There is no part of my role that would condemn me, except for apparently this "ability".
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Listen to the song again, and crossreference it with real life. Anastasia was present with, and probably died with, her family. Wouldn't you also scream out if your family photo shoot turned out to be an execution?
@Cop: Investigate me so that we can finally lay this crap to rest and lynch Feuerdrache like the scum he is.
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Here's the wiki on the Anastasia I think you're talking about. If this is the Anastasia, then that would support Annorax and Hunted Charlie's claims, at least in a flavor sense.
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
-Though, I'm very new to Mafia, so I'm probably completely off the mark saying that.
And the mechanical reason doesn't exist, I believe. Unless you mean the fact that the Czar doesn't know that I am town. And I don't see why that is a reason that I'm scum.
Basically, I think the case against me is nonexistent. If necessary, investigate me tonight to clear both me and Annorax (Annorax and I).
That's what I said. It would be difficult for you to be scum.
I'm in favor of an investigation of Annorax.
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Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
also, @ CF, I assume you meant twomz, not treigit, right? I suppose we could look into him, but I don't think there's really anything definitive either way for him, it being day1 obviously.
I don't really have a scumlist but here's my town list:
1)me
2)HC
3)Annorax
CP almost made it on there, but I'm not quite sure for him
I'm really not sure where we should be headed for now, though...
But Annorax is more contentious than Hunted Charlie. If anything, we should investigate Annorax so we have a reason to lynch Feuerdrache.
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Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I'm at a loss. Since when is this kind of thinking considered good play?
Annorax is not scum unless HC is lying about being able to clear him. If HC is innocent, there is no way that Annorax can be scum. It doesn't matter how contentious he is compared to HC, because he can't realistically be scum unless HC is. An investigation of Annorax would be a wasted investigation. Are we clear on that point?
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But I may be wrong. If I am, I withdraw the statement. If we really wanted something to work with, we should either investigate or lynch Feuer. He's the most suspicious player right now, and he's the only thing we have to work with. I'm confused. Did HC say he could clear him or just that that name was clear? Because Annorax could just as easily be a lying scum.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
But that may just be me. If we're going to lynch someone based on scummy behavior, i think Feuer is the way to go. The whole miller argument has him firmly set in my scumdar right now.
In fact... unvote, vote: Feuerdrache
Raf, can we have a votecount? There hasn't been one for at least 4 pages.
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Yes, Xyre, only the name is clear, but I'd assume that if anybody else was the czar, they'd have counterclaimed. I do know that the czar is in the game, you know.
We may as well investigate me tonight. I can clear Annorax instantly once I'm clear.
This still leaves the problem of who to lynch today. I just don't know...
Feuerdrache proposed it to direct attention away from himself.
Unvote. Vote Feuerdrache.
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Feuer deserves a chance to speak, so no more votes for now, please. I think he's currently at three, again, which should be plenty.
And Feuer, keep in mind when you respond that this is Day 1, so saying that there isn't much of a case against you isn't an appropriate defense, unless we're missing out on a better target. I would like to hear more about your suspicions on C_F, if nothing else.
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(1) carrion pigeons: aurorasparrow
(3) feuerdrache: Hunted Charlier, twomz, annorax
(1) Crippled Fist: feuerdrache
12 alive, 7 to lynch.
As ever, please let me know if I missed any votes or unvotes.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Remember, kids... bittorrent and mafia games don't mix.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
Or we could just lynch him to end the day.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Unvote, Vote Xyre
I'll unvote immediately after you confirm that was a miswording.
Do you have a better suggestion? I know it's very Baby Jesus of me, but I'd much rather lynch the most suspicious player to get information than to banter about things like this:
We haven't had any serious content. I really don't care what we do, but we need to do something.
I'm cautious of lynching Feuer before he's claimed-one reason I didn't vote. Four out of seven may be too much pressure, but I'm frankly concerned that right now, the only information I have to work with is my role, and the Anastasia-Czar information (which took far too long to work through).
I get your reason for not wanting a rash lynch, but consider the alternative: a no lynch definitely gets us nowhere, and right now, we need to lynch someone. The mafia's playing very carefully, and they aren't giving up any ground. Face it-they aren't likely to make a fatal mistake this early, and after this many posts.
Frankly, I don't think Feuer's that scummy. I posted a list of reasons a while back why I thought he wasn't. But I also think we need to do something, and unless there are four mafia, I think we can afford to sacrifice a townie. Of course, if he's the cop or doctor, then we'll need him, and he can claim that. But he's the only scummy player out right now, and the lack of content we're seeing give us only one actual way to play.
It's a bandwagon, sure, but this is one bandwagon we need to be on, just so we know what we're dealing with.
No offense, Jameson, but bandwagons are sometimes a necessary evil. Vote Feuerdrache, with an apology.
If you have a suggestion, Charlie, I'm listening.
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Xyre: I disagree that lynching Feuer on the basis that we will gain information is a great plan at this point. I'm curious what information you think we will gain, because from what I see, there has been a great deal of waffling and neutrality from most of the players regarding the issue. He's done some scummy things, but few players have responded to him in any way that could constitute a valid tell, either way.
If we decide that Feuer is worthy of more pressure, we will really need to find a way to get everyone's reactions and opinions before ending the day.
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What a chilling summary of how the game works. Seriously, you were sarnathed by about a million years.
Lynching Feuerdrache for more information seems to be the only reasonable play anyone's come up with yet. If you truly have a better idea, please, post it.
FoS: carrion pigeons
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https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
If we do hit scum today, it will be mostly on the basis of luck. This is indisputable. I don't believe anybody here feels strongly that Feuer is scum. So why are trying to go to Night fast with a probable townie lynch? Don't the scum want to go to Night fast with a probable townie lynch? Why are we doing their job for them?
I don't support the Feuer lynch. At all.
I pretty much agree. To begin with the case on Feuer is not very strong. I think everyone knows that at this point. So we have to ask ourshelves, what does lynching him net us? And I also have to say the answer with this is very little. We end the day, sure. But if we end the day with a townie lynch it does not matter. As for information there is little to gain from a feuer lynch at this point.
I think that the best play is to just keep going and strech this day out. It is Day 1 of coarse.
Is there any kind of a case against anyone else? The only things I'm seeing are HC being a random dangerous unknown and carrion pigeons being carrion pigeons. Could one of them be more worthy of the information lynching?
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I was sarnath'd how, exactly? In case you didn't notice, I was responding to HC's comment that lynching someone who might be town is a bad idea, which is a dumb argument.
Lynching Feuerdrache for information is a tactic that WILL fail. You didn't answer my question: what info do you think we would get be lynching Feuer?
I'm all for lynching Feuer if we honestly think he's a good target, but this reasoning is stupid.
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Then let me provide partially stupid, yet wholly relevant reasoning from a brain that's been up and running for 32 hours so far: Do you have a better target in mind? I'm all for lynching a better target should one pop up, but I'm just not seeing one yet.
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https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
I have already made my case; I want to see what other people have to offer, and whether or not they think that Feuer deserves the attention on him, and if not, who they think does deserve attention.
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It's not really a good reason... but hey, it's what you expect from day 1 no? Feuer defending himself some would be a nice change of pace as well.
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Look, I'm sorry I ever brought it up. Like I said earlier, it was just a stray thought. I probably should not have said anything, but it was a curiosity in the lyrics I probably overanalyzed. I don't like this, though:
I'm not stupid, Annorax, and I don't think you are either. So stop being dense. I was referring to the fact that she screamed in vain, and relating that to Mafia. But I'm dropping the point right now, as I never intended it as an honest theory, and it's just drawn me like 3 or 4 votes in a row.
I don't have any evidence to point at others. The scum are hiding extremely well. I think it's pretty nuts that the only people any of the town are any bit sure of are Hunted Charlie and Annorax, who so far are only confirmed by each other and by no other information. It could very easily be a mafia ploy, quick and dirty. Think about it - if they pulled it off, the cop wouldn't investigate either of them until it was too late. We have no proof that either is who they say they are, or even that Anastasia or the czar are in the game. I'm not going to point too many fingers at the two people everyone seems to have cleared, but I want to keep you guys on your toes here. You can't trust anyone in Mafia, especially not on Day 1.
But enough with my little psychology rant. Like I said, no evidence that either of them is scum, but the only cases that have been brought against me are weak scum "tells," with no real evidence of scum behavior. So just keep it in mind that this whole game is all in your heads so far.
Fair enough-neither do I. But do you have a better idea? I"m listening.
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
An Xyre lynch for doing something that I consider very scummy?
You're kidding.
You're not kidding.
Seriously, do we have a better target than Feuer? Right now, unless someone comes forward with something new, I don't see anything else to do. But I'll Unvote Feuerdrache.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Come to think of it, Unvote, Vote Xyre.
"An Xyre"?
Think about it. There's been no content on this thread. Period. Review the points I outlined. If there was a better lynch, I'd vote on it, but we have nothing to work with. No content; nothing but the Anastasia/Czar claims, which clear you and Annorax, for the most part.
Feuerdrache's been a target all thread. Even you can't deny that. I definitely would back off if he claimed/was cleared/gave a sufficient reason, but I haven't see that.
So the ball's back in your court, Charlie. How has Feuerdrache not made scummy plays?
I'll admit it myself-I defended Jameson. I would much rather lynch scum than a townie, and I definitely think Jameson is innocent. But what else do we have to deal with? At this point, I'd be willing to vote No Lynch to deal with this mess. But I still think that the primary job we have right now is to acquire information. If we catch scum, so much the better, but it's likely not going to happen.
If you'd read Jameson's post, you'd see this:
which is exactly what I've been saying.
There are no "scum tells", period. Name a time when you caught a scum with a scum "tell", and I'll give you five instances of catching a townie who wasn't paying attention or wasn't thinking. Your evidence is based on a "scum tell" that doesn't tell anything. Think, Charlie!
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
But pushing a lynch is, again, not a scum tell.
Think about it: you're so caught up on catching scum, you've lost contact with the basic evil of mafia: you need to lynch some townies to find the scum. The point is to find the mafia before you kill all the townies.
(apologies if that sounded too pessimistic)
I'll repeat it: I don't think Jameson is scum. I myself have been in multiple situations where I was town, made a few bad calls, and was lynched/bandwagoned/nightkilled for it. But that doesn't mean that you can call scum tells on me and say I'm scum.
In fact, I don't understand why you're so caught up on "scum tells". Are scum tells ever telling? Hells no. The only thing scum tells are good for is for rooting out the bad players. If you are going to base your case on scum tells, however, you have no case at all.
Here's your case, summarized in your last few posts.
"A miswording"? What's wrong with what I said. Pardon my Baby Jesus play, but at the very worst, I was putting pressure on him. Why in the world would I say I'm going to trust him, and then lynch him?
This is a new development. He's a townie now? Since when? Let the man claim!
CP interrupts, and counters my claim with some logic. Annorax backs me up and FOSes him. Then this:
(emphasis mine) Thank you for making my case. If we're going off "scum tells", then why don't we just go with the scummy man with a target on his back and get "lucky"?
Again. I didn't hear it the first time, sir.
More "scum tells" nonsense.
Face it, Charlie: you don't have any backing for your claim that we're guaranteed to lynch a townie. You're making assumptions, and they're partially based on your misunderstanding of Day 1 practice. It's very rare to lynch scum Day 1, especially when they're playing very tightly.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Tell you what. You tell me just what Feuer has done to make him the "scummy man", not just in terms of "what he said" or "acting scummy", and I'll ask for a Feuer claim.
OK?
Wait, that came out wrong. I mean, judge him by what he said, of course, I just meant that I don't want you to say "Y'know, what Annorax said" or something.
vote xyre. getting fed up is not something a townie should do, as that hands the game to the mafia. day is townie time, night is mafia time (even for power roles like the inspector). The only people pushing for a feud lynch should be those who think he is genuinely scummy; otherwise, they are facilitating the mafia and encouraging the mafia to keep the game uninteresting.
You know what the better idea to lynching feud is? waiting for the mafia to make a move to try and lynch him.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
That still doesn't mean you lynch someone you believe to be town to get to night. Night info is useful, but usually the life of a townie is considered more important - unless that townie is proving him or herself worthless in terms of finding scum.