"No, I specifically heard denim. Looks like so crafty ghost is trying to break our code" -Bravo 3 "I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
Mnerr. I just got back from school and such. And everyone's talking about me! I feel famous...or notorious...or something. I'm not quite sure how I should feel.
Well, how old are you? When your college is #1 overall, March madness takes quite the importance.
---------------------------------
Anyhow, Im going to try and do another analysis of things tonight, as the start of the nonrandom voting stage should be a better source of information than that part. I hope to get it done by tonight (dont get your hopes up so), .
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
FOS List:
Kokusho - Tuatha
loran16 - kops, Lord rahl, Cyan, Hooga
Tuatha - Lord rahl
With 11 in, a majority vote requires 6 to lynch!
4 players are currently not voting!
Im curious too Rahl. Last time i checked you were between voting for me and then voting for Tuatha.
And yet now, wanting day to go on, you vote for Tuatha without ANY explanation of how you gave your choice. You're no newb rahl (despite appearences on this site). Could it have been cuz she had two votes rather than one?
UNVOTE Tuatha.(No changes to her position, but Rahl's choice makes me a bit wary when its only 6 to lynch...) VOTE LORD RAHL. Im rather curious how he made his decision all of a sudden....
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I would post more, but there's been so little said I feel its not really worth much analysis at all...
Rahl, did you intend to vote Tuatha in order to encourage action on the voting scene, or in order to evoke more reactions so we can have more information?
Either way could be seen as town or mafia, but I would like to know the motivation.
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<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|It is Night 0. Night ends in 180 s (or when all choices are in). Submit actions to fadeblue
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
Quite simply as i stated in my post, it had been 16 hours since a post... the game was reallllly slow. So, i voted randomly.
It's not concrete and i still dont trust Loran16 at all, but, its the standard mentality.
Tuatha is supicious as well; and at the moment, i dont have anything to urge me one way or another.
So i voted for Tuatha because when it comes down to it, there is slightly more cause for voting for him rather then just my gut.
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:confused2:Asian-obsessed Elitist
Nan says: there should be more asian people
Lord Rahl: i agree
Nan says: they need to **** more
Quote from Feuerdrache »
Feuerdrache says: but but but
Lord Rahl says: what?
Feuerdrache says: she's a negroe!
I dont like Rahl's answer. The time for random voting is past, and day 1s go WAY longer than this here, so its not like we're areally dilly dallying. It seems to me like he was trying to reignite a bandwagon on Tuatha that for the moment was on hold, just for lynching someone purpose.
With that said, why dont i.... Vote Lord Rahl.
(An interesting note is that rahl voted himself in the random voting phase. This is a move that gives NO information about a player subliminally (unlike say Tuatha's random votes seemed to) , which is actually a smart move for an experienced player. It doesnt point particularly to scum, as a townie wouldnt want to get caught bandwagoing either, but its an interesting move. )
Still, this impatientness of Rahl doesnt seem to be that of a townie, but of a scum who made a slip to me (Its almost too subtle to be a townie vote).
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I'm renegging on my update since there's been a whopping 4-5 posts today after the last one. The only change made is rahl and loran voting for new people.
I have a bad headache and generally feel not so great. If I don't check up/date tomorrow, I'm either dead or just totally spent.
Next expected non-mod-prod update is currently basically whenever I feel like it. Sorry to all those who like my nice little daily updates. -_-;
I dont like Rahl's answer. The time for random voting is past, and day 1s go WAY longer than this here, so its not like we're areally dilly dallying. It seems to me like he was trying to reignite a bandwagon on Tuatha that for the moment was on hold, just for lynching someone purpose.
Did i say that this was random? No, i did not.
I said that you and tuatha were the people that were most suspicious to me, and that i voted for tuatha in that there was more of a lead for voting for him. He had substantial reasons to be voted for, wherein you didnt at the time... its changing pretty quickly.
Quote from loran16 »
With that said, why dont i.... Vote Lord Rahl
Well, you can i guess...
Quote from loran16 »
(An interesting note is that rahl voted himself in the random voting phase. This is a move that gives NO information about a player subliminally (unlike say Tuatha's random votes seemed to) , which is actually a smart move for an experienced player. It doesnt point particularly to scum, as a townie wouldnt want to get caught bandwagoing either, but its an interesting move. )
Agian, you misrepresent me, i originally did vote for hooga as a random. After a period of time, a time wherein i no longer saw the point in randomness, i put the vote on myself to ensure that it would remalin active and that my name would appear on the vote list, something i use as a self-reminder thankyou. As for experienced, not too much no. Recently, my games include: 5 games. I got lynched in 2, one game died, i won one on day THREE as a randomly firing vig, and the last i was replaced in.
Quote from loran16 »
Still, this impatientness of Rahl doesnt seem to be that of a townie, but of a scum who made a slip to me (Its almost too subtle to be a townie vote).
It isn't quite impatientness, it is more along the lines of a lack of posting for a large period of time, with my post being the only thing to have generated ANY discussion since then...
Post analysis later today...
~LordR
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:confused2:Asian-obsessed Elitist
Nan says: there should be more asian people
Lord Rahl: i agree
Nan says: they need to **** more
Quote from Feuerdrache »
Feuerdrache says: but but but
Lord Rahl says: what?
Feuerdrache says: she's a negroe!
just out of curiosity... @ loran, why did you unvote rahl, and then vote her again?
also, id like to say that i dont find rahl suspicious at all for doing what she did, knowing that id probably have done the same or a similar thing in her place (in fact i did in another game @ another site, cant talk about it tho cause its sill going on... but ill probly be lynched soon for it rofl)
"No, I specifically heard denim. Looks like so crafty ghost is trying to break our code" -Bravo 3 "I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
Loran begins by saying to not do too much set-up analysis, then begins to do exactly that. Going into a fair amount of detail. Deny's the possibility of a Mafia Roleblocker, and of a Mafia Godfather, even though in the past there have been such roles in newb games.
"Given that there are 3 mafia, and 2 moonenites and 2 plutonites" I fail to have seen the mention of these other 4 roles.. the moonenites or the plutonites by kijin anywhere...
Other notable things (but not necessarily scum tells):
KCW has been pointing out bandwagoning/being flipfloppy and has been pointing suspicion at them
After KCW points out Kok's flip-floppy voting and Hooga FOSES him, Tuatha quickly follows with a FOS of Kokusho citing KCW's EXACT reasons.
Now, agian, he fails to mention anything about my voting for myself, but begins his assault on Tuatha, the sending of all suspicion away from him by being helpful. Votes for Tuatha here
Scum want townies to lynch each other according to him here. Now, the question is raised, if this is true, how come he is CONSTANTLY directing as much suspicion to as many people as possible? Tuatha, myself. The only people with any validity at all.
States that certian tells are human nature, and something that newer players have yet to realize.
"If you think someone is scum here, plz vote unless they're close to lynching"
I believed that Tuatha is mafia, either tuatha or Loran. So, i voted for tuatha on stronger base tells, and a better case other then just a "gut feeling". He voted for me based on this.
Admits i was between voting for Himself and Tuatha. Claims that i want day to go on, insinuating i voted for tuatha based on him having 2 votes. Votes for Lord Rahl.
States he doesnt care for my answer, and says that because the days on MTGS go long, this isnt unsual. REVOTES FOR ME AFTER 2 POSTS.
I have analysed the rest.
Important points:
Multiple times so far, the only two people Loran seems to have voted for, he voted for once, if there was no support, he unvoted and voted agian, trying to get some kind of forward motion going.
When no one seems to take my vote for tuatha that hardly, he unvoted, and then REVOTED in order to try to get momentum. Something that is quite common in more advanced games, and something that has gotten him into trouble multiple times.
All in all, he has been acting helpful at times, but also incredibly agressive. Attacking first tuatha, then myself when it seemed like he could.
I shall keep my vote on Tuatha because he has been really quiet, hasnt said much really in defence, and is just... quiet.
But loran shall recieve a big whopping FOS.
~~Lord Rahl.
*P.S. sorry bout the length...*
EBWODP:
Sorry about this, ignore point 1. I forgot that he replaced deliverance
All very interesting... unfortunately I'm drunk right now so not the best time for analysis/thinking, which I will do tomorrow afternoon.
I will request that Lord Rahl stop posting in bold. It confuses people when you actually FOS or vote. Also, usually the mod is the person who posts in bold, so causes more confusion.
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<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|It is Night 0. Night ends in 180 s (or when all choices are in). Submit actions to fadeblue
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
I know that I voted for him already, but, I just wanted to reinforce my notion that Loran seems to be really quick to declare anyone that he possibly could as scum. This seems like a cheap tactic to confuse us, to me, and a scum type of thing to do.
Alright, I've read through the thread again, and I'm going to FOS Loran, Lord_Rahl, and Kokusho, who I think seem to have the weirdest behavior. Still not sure which I'll vote for.
{This post is more a reminder to myself than anyting, actually, becase now I won't have to go through the entire thread again.}
I unvote and revote for emphasis. Or at least im doing so this game (Only my 2nd game actually having the ABILITY to vote).
Meh.
I gotta go now, but analysis later.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I dont have time to go picking through every point of the PBPA right now, but I have this one point that i can see obviously.
Loran begins by saying to not do too much set-up analysis, then begins to do exactly that. Going into a fair amount of detail. Deny's the possibility of a Mafia Roleblocker, and of a Mafia Godfather, even though in the past there have been such roles in newb games.
"Given that there are 3 mafia, and 2 moonenites and 2 plutonites" I fail to have seen the mention of these other 4 roles.. the moonenites or the plutonites by kijin anywhere...
umm, Okay, Im not sure if im supposed to say this, but I was following along with Sorryguy and talking quite frequently via AIM to him during the last newb. SG told me he wanted avabob "Mafia Leader" to be a godfather, but Vecna vetoed it because he didnt want a godfather in the newb game.
Now i didnt deny the possibliity of a role blocker. Its very possible (Been in newb 5 and newb 6 at least). But its also possible for it not to be there. Course its impossible to know.
Now my point on moonenites and plutonites was to back up the fact that setup analysis, BASED ON THEME,is impossible. I was mentioning them bc someone before hand said that based on the wiki, these 4 and mc pee pants seem like the bad guys of the show. I was showing that having both groups as mafia was rather impossible based on previous newb trends. So i concluded that post saying its impossible, until we lynch scum, to determine what roles could be scum/mafia, as ANY roles in this show have reason to dislike the ATHF, and no particular groups of characters (which are only these pairs, all other characters are singletons) are necessarily mafia.
Ill go through the rest of your PBPA later. Its VERY VERY interesting , but i gotta pack for tomorrows plane flight as spring break ends tomorrow.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
What? I changed my vote once, FOSed Kokusho due to some good points made by another, then did nothing until just a little bit ago, when I unvoted Mosschop(because, really, voting out of spite is silly), and indicated the people who I was considering finalizing my vote for, now that we're out of the random stage. I really haven't been that chaotic.
How's everyone's weekend shaping up? I just saw some friends from grade/middle/high school on my way back from hanging out with a bunch of Anime Con friends.
Early Morning Votecount:
Lord rahl (1) - loran16
Cyan (1) - KCW
Tuatha (1) - Lord rahl
Athos (1) - Athos
Diggy (1) - Diggy
Loran16 (1) - Cyan
FOS List:
Kokusho - 2x Tuatha
loran16 - kops, Lord rahl, Cyan, Hooga, Mosschop, Tuatha
Tuatha - Lord rahl
Lord rahl - Mosschop, Tuatha
With 11 in, a majority vote requires 6 to lynch!
5 players are currently not voting!
Next update: sometime tomorrow unless there is little progress.
FOS Lord Rahl for attempting to start a bandwagon on Loran
Umm, i'm not really trying to start a bandwagon on loran. He has one vote, and not even mine.
He is attacking me, and the best way to render such an attack inert is to attack him back and render his position as less tenable. A place from which he cannot launch attacks as easily
A random citizen getting accused by a known liar wouldnt get very much of an investigation eh?
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:confused2:Asian-obsessed Elitist
Nan says: there should be more asian people
Lord Rahl: i agree
Nan says: they need to **** more
Quote from Feuerdrache »
Feuerdrache says: but but but
Lord Rahl says: what?
Feuerdrache says: she's a negroe!
I'm going to FOS loran. He is using some crazy logic. Same with Lord rahl I let them sort it out.
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"No, I specifically heard denim. Looks like so crafty ghost is trying to break our code" -Bravo 3 "I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
Crazy logic? Nice. Well, i guess my sanity could be questioned but w/e. That said I find it VERY VERY interesting that people think im accusing many people. Ive accused TWO people. Incidentally, Most people have two people FOSed, meaning they have two people they think are possibly scummy. Its not like ive gone out and pointed fingers at every1, which i havent despite accusations to the contrary.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Loran begins by saying to not do too much set-up analysis, then begins to do exactly that. Going into a fair amount of detail. Deny's the possibility of a Mafia Roleblocker, and of a Mafia Godfather, even though in the past there have been such roles in newb games.
"Given that there are 3 mafia, and 2 moonenites and 2 plutonites" I fail to have seen the mention of these other 4 roles.. the moonenites or the plutonites by kijin anywhere...
Ive explained my objections to this analysis already.
[/u]Now, agian, he fails to mention anything about my voting for myself, but begins his assault on Tuatha, the sending of all suspicion away from him by being helpful. [U]Votes for Tuatha here[/U]
So for not noting your vote for yourself, this means....I fail to see how this is a point against me.
A key thing to note is that i have no suspicion on me at the time, so why would i try to divert suspicion? A point should be made that i heavily criticized Bluesoul in my analysis of newb 6 for being a way too helpful scum, and the town for not investigating the way too helpful player. Id like to think i wouldnt follow bluesoul's example if i was scum (unfortunately, I dont have any finished games to show examples of my play from any side or whatnot, tho i should be dead in seinfeld soon so you can look at that for my playstyle.).
"rather interesting that YOU of all people are Fosing me for analyzing and trying to get us moving"
Exactly what i was doing with my vote. States random voting is less the random.
Errr, Okay, still not seeing relevance of this. (For those who dont know, Kops basically had a post 3/4 the way through day 1 in the last newb mafia , where he voted every townie and screamed at the rest of the town that they werent lynching someone fast enough. Really dumb i thought).
Scum want townies to lynch each other according to him here. Now, the question is raised, if this is true, how come he is CONSTANTLY directing as much suspicion to as many people as possible? Tuatha, myself. The only people with any validity at all.
Errr, I've at this point only accused Tuatha, and no one else of scum traits and being possible mafia. Im VERY confused. Now if you're jumping ahead to current time, youll notice ive only ever voted (never fosed) two people, and have not been pointing fingers at any1 else without justification.
Admits here that he is one of the two biggest targets in the town. Highly suspicious even to his own account. Mentions the power of voting accounts.
Lets see, notice all the FOSes on me? Of course im one of two most suspicious persons at this time. Of course, the town is suspicous of me for HELPING the others see scum traits, something you still havent pointed out for some reason.
States that certian tells are human nature, and something that newer players have yet to realize.
"If you think someone is scum here, plz vote unless they're close to lynching"
I believed that Tuatha is mafia, either tuatha or Loran. So, i voted for tuatha on stronger base tells, and a better case other then just a "gut feeling". He voted for me based on this.
Curious about the first part....Not very scummy. As to the second, Kijin wasnt keeping track of FOSes. That said he has now, but im still not thrilled with it. They dont actually do anything, but allow a scum to FOS a bunch of people the town things are suspicious, allowing him to say in later days after we lynch scum, "look i FOSed the scum we lynched!" (like Avabob in Newb 6, though he FOSed everyone in the town, which was an obvious scum trait.).
Interesting little thing we have to be careful here. If Im lynched and am not scum, (which im not), Tuatha IS NOT necessarily scum. Fallilng into traps like that is a real bad way to waste a day 2 lynch. When we get to day 2, looking at who voted for which people should be our best way to find scum at first, not which suspicious person did we not lynch....
Admits i was between voting for Himself and Tuatha. Claims that i want day to go on, insinuating i voted for tuatha based on him having 2 votes. [U]Votes for Lord Rahl.
[/U]
"Admits?" "Claims?" Interesting. You're using words here that modify my intentions in this post. I Pointed Out your talks about a possible vote before, and speculated it was because of Tuatha's higher vote count.
[/U]States he doesnt care for my answer, and says that because the days on MTGS go long, this isnt unsual. [U]REVOTES FOR ME AFTER 2 POSTS.
[/U]I have analysed the rest.
Important points:
Multiple times so far, the only two people Loran seems to have voted for, he voted for once, if there was no support, he unvoted and voted agian, trying to get some kind of forward motion going.
When no one seems to take my vote for tuatha that hardly, he unvoted, and then REVOTED in order to try to get momentum. Something that is quite common in more advanced games, and something that has gotten him into trouble multiple times.
All in all, he has been acting helpful at times, but also incredibly agressive. Attacking first tuatha, then myself when it seemed like he could.
I shall keep my vote on Tuatha because he has been really quiet, hasnt said much really in defence, and is just... quiet.
But loran shall recieve a big whopping [U]FOS[/U].
~~Lord Rahl.
*P.S. sorry bout the length...*
EBWODP:
Sorry about this, ignore point 1. I forgot that he replaced deliverance
*Some spacing in this last quote may look weird, but my firefox browser was displaying it weird and a few extra spaces cleared it up. No words or what not have been changed*
Things to note.
A. Is unvoting then revoting for emphasis a common thing in advanced games? I havent seen it ever done here by a single poster as part of his posting style, maybe its advanced on mafiascum.com?
B. I told you we arent being slow for this site, so its not like there was a need to make a decision on who to vote for yet. And yet you made one without any real backing or explanation. Thus my revoting you.
C. I havent really been that agressive, pointing out why certain traits were scummy in Tuatha and making 2 posts explaining why you suddently made a scummy move. You want aggressive? Watch Hunted Charlie play. Most BLOODTHIRSTY play EVER! (Seriously, it makes me cringe to reread newb 6). I fail to see how pointing out a few scum traits in two players, is super aggressive.
Throughout the PBPA, you state things about my posts that have NOTHING to do with me being scummy. In fact, they dont have anything to do with scum traits, and yet you put them in here. Meanwhile, you use make certain word choices like:
Claiming right here, that we have little information to go one Now, the question is raised, if this is true, how come he is CONSTANTLY directing as much suspicion
Admits i was between voting for Himself and Tuatha. Claims that i want day to go on, insinuating i voted for tuatha based on him having 2 votes. [U]Votes for Lord Rahl[/U]Admits here that he is one of the two biggest targets in the town.[U].
[/U]And considering you're FOS of me and suspicion on me has one basis of the fact that i:
seems to(o) utterly sure that he is displaying concrete scum traits.
you seem to try and make ALL of my speculations seem like i was stating a fact, rather than clearly speculating.
Now the question is...are you doing this on purpose?
Considering the fact, you made a PBPA on me that didnt really show anything scummy about me, and then continued to say i was acting scummy WITHOUT changing your vote to me (but simply using a useless FOS), i think the answer is YES.
Its like you're afraid of voting me for fear of it being an OMGUS vote, but want to raise the towns suspicion on me rather than yourself, and yet you want to keep your vote on Tuatha just in case.
So at this point, unless someone else makes a scum blowup, I think Rahl is most likely mafia. The fact that he did a PBPA on me that didnt point out anything scummy, concluded i was a possible mafia from it, then only FOSed me for it just strikes me as currently more suspicious than Tuatha is at this point.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Are all Mafia games this slow moving? Like 1/2 the players have barely posted/haven't posted anything relevant at all. The same 5 people just keep posting while no one else does anything.
Are all Mafia games this slow moving? Like 1/2 the players have barely posted/haven't posted anything relevant at all. The same 5 people just keep posting while no one else does anything.
Usually everyone posts; most mafia games move a little faster than this. Except on mafiascum, those games move like molasses.
I guess alot of us are new; so that's going to make things go more slowly..but still, it doesn't seem like you can learn the game by not participating.
Are all Mafia games this slow moving? Like 1/2 the players have barely posted/haven't posted anything relevant at all. The same 5 people just keep posting while no one else does anything.
The speed varies. At one point in the last newb game, all but one player was online at once, so they acquired like 9 pages of posts in 3 hours. Most rediculous thing I have EVER EVER seen.
Day 1s here as ive said before are slow because, A. Lack of confirmed information about a player (in other words, you dont know the identity and alignment of a dead player, and who wanted him dead) and B. Well, sometimes people have other things to do rather than serious mafia playing.
Of course in the non newb games like Romance mafia or sin city, things go rather fast.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
There isn't really any info for me to go off and say something about.
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"No, I specifically heard denim. Looks like so crafty ghost is trying to break our code" -Bravo 3 "I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
Throughout the PBPA, you state things about my posts that have NOTHING to do with me being scummy. In fact, they dont have anything to do with scum traits, and yet you put them in here.
Now, I have to ask you, "scum traits"? Only complete newb scum would actually exhibit scum traits - the other scum will know about them and, for the most part, avoid them. Which is why I don't think that the so-called "scum traits" you seem to be looking for will actually help us, except in the case of players that haven't played before.
How is this relavent? Well you have played before, so if you are scum, you're not going to be exhibiting these "scum traits" you're so aware of. The same goes for Lord Rahl. A player like Tuatha might, on the other hand, since they are completely new.
Which is why I fail to see how Lord Rahl not pointing out specific scum traits means you aren't scum.
Instead of scum traits, Rahl points out scummy actions.
These actions are scummy because they're concurrent with scum objectives. That is, they want townies to lynch townies quickly. It seems like you are encouraging a quick lynch. Since you have voted Tuatha and Rahl on bases that I consider only very slight evidence, and you have revoted for emphasis for each of them, it seems like you are trying to drum up more votes. There's no reason to revote for emphasis other than to garner vote support. One can see your vote the first time, and its reflected in every votecount. More vote support on simple "speculations" is something a mafia would want to do.
And since your questions are seemingly burying my vote ill UNVOTE, VOTE Tuatha for emphasis.
also where Loran unvote+votes rahl after only 2 posts, there's no reason to do this.
Note that in my criticism of these specific "scum traits" Loran points out, I'm NOT saying that lack of "scum traits" is more likely to make Loran or Rahl scum. That's WIFOM craplogic. Rather, what I'm saying is we can't use the presence of "scum traits" or the lack of "scum traits" at ALL for the experienced players here. We just can't consider them.
Some more analysis of posts:
Hah, Hilarious.
ROFL, do ya think im Blue soul in Newb 6 Kops?
Why do you dismiss someone's post on the count of being "hilarious" or "you should read XYZ" or comparing to someone else's past play? This isn't a defence of your actions, its just trying to deflect attention to somewhere else or trying to dismiss the suspicions without offering significant logic to back it up.
i critiziced one scum for being too helpful.
A point should be made that i heavily criticized Bluesoul in my analysis of newb 6 for being a way too helpful scum, and the town for not investigating the way too helpful player. Id like to think i wouldnt follow bluesoul's example if i was scum
I fail to see how this is a proper defence. You are the one who determines if this statement is true or not, as we have no idea if you will actually follow your own advice. It leads to WIFOM logic on our part, which is bad.
That said I find it VERY VERY interesting that people think im accusing many people.
Did anyone say that? I re-read all the posts criticising you and I only saw one post saying you had gone after more people that just Tuatha and Lord Rahl.
Cyan said:
I know that I voted for him already, but, I just wanted to reinforce my notion that Loran seems to be really quick to declare anyone that he possibly could as scum.
He doesn't even say that you're attacking many players, simply that you're attacking players for little to no evidence.
So in your "people think im accusing many people" post, you seem to be making up an accusation you've received. Not sure how to interpret this, but evidently misinformation never helps the town.
In conclusion:
You, Loran, are being aggressive. You're acting exactly like HC in newb 6 - you made the comparison, and said you weren't as aggressive, but I disagree. You're jumping on small scum traits that don't give us any information, and have an obsession with these typical scum traits. Smart players would avoid these traits, so we can't typify all scum with these traits.
Your voting patterns encourage people to vote without thinking. Re-voting "for emphasis" doesn't help give more evidence or more logic, it simply makes the vote more visible. There's no point to doing that unless you want more people to vote, which could be seen as more of a mafia action than a town action.
You're also making logic errors and acting defensively at slight accusations. However you don't provide solid defensive evidence, instead referring us to things that seem like they clear you, but upon thinking, do nothing for your case (for example, referring to your comments on HC at the end of newb 6).
my FOS stands.
now for the reason why my FOS doesn't turn into a vote:
Tuatha, when you vote, we need to hear why you vote. Saying
his behaviour strikes me as odd.
doesn't tell us anyting about why this behaviour is odd. Furthermore, Koko has made a whopping total of one recent post, short of spammy posts like
World cup> March maddness.
and telling us to keep it civil after misreading someone's comment. And in that one relavent post, all he's done is saying Loran has been using "crazy logic". That seems to be a common sentiment, and doesn't strike me as odd behaviour at all.
I need some reasons from Tuatha, and some proper defence from Tuatha, and that's why I'm going to Vote Tuatha
quite simply, after being accused of voting without reasons, you vote again without reasons
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|It is Night 0. Night ends in 180 s (or when all choices are in). Submit actions to fadeblue
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
Hooga, i gotta go to math class right now, so i cant type up a full response to your post, but are you saying we cant expect or shouldnt think the experienced players will give up scum traits? Thats REDICULOUS. How else would any1 find mafia in a non newb game?
Even experienced players give off scum traits, they just tend to be more subtle as they avoid obvious tells.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Freaky. I didnt even see that mosschop post before.
Let me explain this to you Moss, the reason why im defending myself against little votes, is that what I feel Rahl is doing is trying to shove suspicion my way, WITHOUT voting me, so as to seem like hes not being
A. Aggressive
B. Not on the lynch of a townie should i be lynched
and C. So as he's still on the lynch of Tuatha should we lynch him.
Rahl is in my opinion subtly trying to shift attention and suspicion towards me, without voting himself.
And im therefore defending myself in response, because what he's doing is trying to get votes on me, despite his vote on Tuatha .
As for Hooga.
Quote from Hooga »
Ok, time for a post about Loran:
Let's look at your response to Rahl:
Now, I have to ask you, "scum traits"? Only complete newb scum would actually exhibit scum traits - the other scum will know about them and, for the most part, avoid them. Which is why I don't think that the so-called "scum traits" you seem to be looking for will actually help us, except in the case of players that haven't played before.
How is this relavent? Well you have played before, so if you are scum, you're not going to be exhibiting these "scum traits" you're so aware of. The same goes for Lord Rahl. A player like Tuatha might, on the other hand, since they are completely new.
Which is why I fail to see how Lord Rahl not pointing out specific scum traits means you aren't scum.
Instead of scum traits, Rahl points out scummy actions.
These actions are scummy because they're concurrent with scum objectives. That is, they want townies to lynch townies quickly. It seems like you are encouraging a quick lynch. Since you have voted Tuatha and Rahl on bases that I consider only very slight evidence, and you have revoted for emphasis for each of them, it seems like you are trying to drum up more votes. There's no reason to revote for emphasis other than to garner vote support. One can see your vote the first time, and its reflected in every votecount. More vote support on simple "speculations" is something a mafia would want to do.
also where Loran unvote+votes rahl after only 2 posts, there's no reason to do this.
Note that in my criticism of these specific "scum traits" Loran points out, I'm NOT saying that lack of "scum traits" is more likely to make Loran or Rahl scum. That's WIFOM craplogic. Rather, what I'm saying is we can't use the presence of "scum traits" or the lack of "scum traits" at ALL for the experienced players here. We just can't consider them.
Some more analysis of posts:
Why do you dismiss someone's post on the count of being "hilarious" or "you should read XYZ" or comparing to someone else's past play? This isn't a defence of your actions, its just trying to deflect attention to somewhere else or trying to dismiss the suspicions without offering significant logic to back it up.
I fail to see how this is a proper defence. You are the one who determines if this statement is true or not, as we have no idea if you will actually follow your own advice. It leads to WIFOM logic on our part, which is bad.
Did anyone say that? I re-read all the posts criticising you and I only saw one post saying you had gone after more people that just Tuatha and Lord Rahl.
Cyan said:
He doesn't even say that you're attacking many players, simply that you're attacking players for little to no evidence.
So in your "people think im accusing many people" post, you seem to be making up an accusation you've received. Not sure how to interpret this, but evidently misinformation never helps the town.
First of all, to repeat, even experienced mafia players can exude scum traits. They often avoid the obvious ones, but they are still detectable. To say that looking at scum traits for experienced players is pointless is the dumbest thing i have ever heard in a mafia game.
Now: When have i tried to make this day go faster with a quick lynch? IVE criticized people, like Rahl, for impatience, saying that days go long here. How does revoting for emphasis mean that im trying to get people to vote on them quickly? Its the same as if when ive already voted for one person, and then i make a post concluding that they are scum! Its just instead of saying, inconclusion, he is mafia, i go Unvote revote X. (Kijin, that was NOT an unvote).
Incidentally, Rahl didnt show any posts where my actions were scummy, (though he may have tried to make that revoting for emphasis is scummy point? I couldn't tell), but instead thought that i was too sure about certain things. Of course the posts he points out that show this actually have to do with me explaining why an OMGUS vote is considered a scummy action. So apparently being helpful is being too sure about something. GREAT.
Now lets look at Cyan's quote again:
Quote from Cyan »
I know that I voted for him already, but, I just wanted to reinforce my notion that Loran seems to be really quick to declare anyone that he possibly could as scum.
Now unless im reading this wrong, Cyan (and others have as well) has accused me of throwing accusations around at everyone. In fact i only voted Tuatha (for stated reasons, which were scum traits) and Rahl (for reasons no one else seems to see *sigh).
Rahl accused me of being really aggressive, which is the same thing. In fact i really haven't as all of my accusations are backed up by reasoning and logic. The only reason people think my accusatinos are aggressive, is that no one else is DOING that, like they do in other games here.
----------------------------------------
On a side note, Im actually starting to believe Tuatha isnt scum. Ill wait till he posts his reasons about kokusho before making a pbpa outlining my reasons, but i think he is townie at this point.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Now unless im reading this wrong, Cyan (and others have as well) has accused me of throwing accusations around at everyone. In fact i only voted Tuatha (for stated reasons, which were scum traits) and Rahl (for reasons no one else seems to see *sigh).
Loran, Cyan is the only one who said that you were throwing accusations at anyone (or everyone). No one else has said that - I checked 1/2 the posts in the thread (from when you first voted Tuatha). I too know that you are suspecting/voting only Rahl and Tuatha, and Rahl was in response to his suspicions of you. The point here is you continually state that there are many people who believe you are throwing accusations around, whereas Cyan is the only person to have said such.
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<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|It is Night 0. Night ends in 180 s (or when all choices are in). Submit actions to fadeblue
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
Loran, Cyan is the only one who said that you were throwing accusations at anyone (or everyone). No one else has said that - I checked 1/2 the posts in the thread (from when you first voted Tuatha). I too know that you are suspecting/voting only Rahl and Tuatha, and Rahl was in response to his suspicions of you. The point here is you continually state that there are many people who believe you are throwing accusations around, whereas Cyan is the only person to have said such.
Rahl, and Cyan have said it, and i swear someone else.
And i didnt vote Rah in resposne to his suspicon of me.... he voted Tuatha, not Me before i voted him. He'd already had me FOSed for a while at the time.
Okay, class time now.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I didn't say everyone. That would not be logical. I said that you declare anyone that you conceivably could as scum, which I feel to be true. As soon as anyone takes any kind of action that you don't like, they're scum. It's like this is the Salem Witch Trials, and you're responsible for finding the witches...so you name everyone that you have any reason to possibly name. Granted, that's only two people. So far. I'm sure you'll at least FOS some more of us very soon. But I have to ask myself why you do this. To me, it seems like you are using the fact that you're more knowledgable about Mafia than the rest of us to make other people look significantly more 'scum' than they actually are. And that seems like a very scummy thing to do, which is why I voted for you, and still feel justified in that vote.
I didn't say everyone. That would not be logical. I said that you declare anyone that you conceivably could as scum, which I feel to be true. As soon as anyone takes any kind of action that you don't like, they're scum. It's like this is the Salem Witch Trials, and you're responsible for finding the witches...so you name everyone that you have any reason to possibly name. Granted, that's only two people. So far. I'm sure you'll at least FOS some more of us very soon. But I have to ask myself why you do this. To me, it seems like you are using the fact that you're more knowledgable about Mafia than the rest of us to make other people look significantly more 'scum' than they actually are. And that seems like a very scummy thing to do, which is why I voted for you, and still feel justified in that vote.
If you say sooo...., And no, i dont FOS people for no reason. As for taking an action i dont like...there are a few votes on me , and 6 FOSes! You think i like that? And yet you dont see me pointing fingers at people, lol.
W/e cyan. Tho i will take being called "More knowledgeable about mafia than the rest of you" as a nice compliment, if unfortunately untrue *sigh*. If i was more knowledgable id be able to convince people better. Meh.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
ok, sorry i havent posted much.. but until now i havent really had anything to say, however at the moment i dont have time to read over the three new pages, so ill get back to you guys either in half an hour if i finish what im doing in computer class =P or else after school at 4ish, sorry for being lurkerish tho, but ill give my thoughts asap
Let me explain this to you Moss, the reason why im defending myself against little votes, is that what I feel Rahl is doing is trying to shove suspicion my way, WITHOUT voting me, so as to seem like hes not being
A. Aggressive
B. Not on the lynch of a townie should i be lynched
and C. So as he's still on the lynch of Tuatha should we lynch him.
Rahl is in my opinion subtly trying to shift attention and suspicion towards me, without voting himself.
And im therefore defending myself in response, because what he's doing is trying to get votes on me, despite his vote on Tuatha .
[quote]
First off, i havent changed my vote as of yet due to a lack of certianty about you *lessening as time goes on* and less certianty about Tuatha, who seems to use flimsy logic, or atleast flimsy explinations for his votes.
I am NOT being agressive, i didnt start to "attack" you until you started to vote for me and try to drum up support. This is not an attack, this is a defense.
I personally don't care too much about voting for you yet, if it comes to it, and there is something LARGE that strikes me as odd, then i will vote for you without hesitation.
Lastly i do believe that for the most part, tuatha seems to be safe today. It seems like since we are the most vocal, and the most long winded, it will be either me or You *loran* who gets lynched.
[quote=loran]
As for Hooga.
First of all, to repeat, even experienced mafia players can exude scum traits. They often avoid the obvious ones, but they are still detectable. To say that looking at scum traits for experienced players is pointless is the dumbest thing i have ever heard in a mafia game.
Now: When have i tried to make this day go faster with a quick lynch? IVE criticized people, like Rahl, for impatience, saying that days go long here. How does revoting for emphasis mean that im trying to get people to vote on them quickly? Its the same as if when ive already voted for one person, and then i make a post concluding that they are scum! Its just instead of saying, inconclusion, he is mafia, i go Unvote revote X. (Kijin, that was NOT an unvote).
Well, for this i have a retort, you stated at an earlier point after all the FOS'ing,
Quote from loran16 post 104 »
That said, I extremely dislike all the FOSes going on here. If you think someone is scum here, plz vote unless they're close to lynching (in which case, FOS them until they claim their role so that you dont by accident lynch a power role (AKA Cop/Doc)). Considering Kijin is not tracking FOSes like SG did last newb game, its kind of hard to do so for those of us using these things for analysis.
At the point i voted for tuatha, he wasnt really close to a lynching, and you WERE encouraging, in a manner, a faster system of lynching. To power out the votes until such time as they were rediculously close to lynching.
Quote from loran »
Incidentally, Rahl didnt show any posts where my actions were scummy, (though he may have tried to make that revoting for emphasis is scummy point? I couldn't tell), but instead thought that i was too sure about certain things. Of course the posts he points out that show this actually have to do with me explaining why an OMGUS vote is considered a scummy action. So apparently being helpful is being too sure about something. GREAT.
For this, i concider the vote/unvote/revote scummy as it is an attempt to drum up support for your position. There is no other logical advantage to doing so. You dont forget who your vote is on, and Kijin will update the votes daily so people know what your position is...
Quote from loran »
Now unless im reading this wrong, Cyan (and others have as well) has accused me of throwing accusations around at everyone. In fact i only voted Tuatha (for stated reasons, which were scum traits) and Rahl (for reasons no one else seems to see *sigh).
Yes, i believe you are reading this wrong. SO far, me and tuatha were the only ones to act odd or even speak up, except for Cyan really. In this instance, if you were to attack Cyan off the bat, then you would look like you are taking advantage of his newb-ness, giving a reason to not attack him. Hence, in a manner of speaking, we are everyone who is slightly suspicious.
Quote from loran »
Rahl accused me of being really aggressive, which is the same thing. In fact i really haven't as all of my accusations are backed up by reasoning and logic. The only reason people think my accusatinos are aggressive, is that no one else is DOING that, like they do in other games here.
In some places it is crap logic. Your reasoning is very faulty in many places, and your logic leaves much to be desired. Logic, for many points in mafia ,are just disasters waiting to happen due to WIFOM. LOGICALLY, if i were scum i would wait until someone has a few votes and then flood them with votes, resulting in a lynch. Problem with that is, it has been done to death, and often it is NOT the mafia who cause the 3rd vote... WIFOM.
Quote from loran »
On a side note, Im actually starting to believe Tuatha isnt scum. Ill wait till he posts his reasons about kokusho before making a pbpa outlining my reasons, but i think he is townie at this point.
And here you back off of Tuatha, after declaring earlier that you were almost sure he was mafia... Agian, scummy. The heat comes up, so you back off the only target you can without losing face.
If you were to back off attacking me, it would make your overall position horrible, due to the amount of fevour you have put into it. Tuatha was small, and before me, therefore more forgetable, more forgivable. So you lose some heat from that position, and seem like you are admitting that you are wrong, eliminating one of the accusations agianst you.
Facing this, i shall do the very thing you say i am afraid to do. UNVOTE Tuatha, Vote Loran16.
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:confused2:Asian-obsessed Elitist
Nan says: there should be more asian people
Lord Rahl: i agree
Nan says: they need to **** more
Quote from Feuerdrache »
Feuerdrache says: but but but
Lord Rahl says: what?
Feuerdrache says: she's a negroe!
Meh, i get the feeling the town is going to end this day lynching me anyhow. But at least they'll gain a lot of info from my lynch.
As for that post Rahl, youll notice the part i said about not voting and FOSing someone if they're near lynch so they can claim?
W/e. Im at 3 votes...no? Ill claim at 5 votes.
Incidentally, backing off a person , or defending oneself from accusations is not actually a scummy trait. But you're well aware of that, and are certain the town will believe you over me (and you're probably right in that regard).
I have to do work now so i cant do a PBPA of Tuatha, but things that make me think he isnt mafia right now are:
1. His utter confusion about this game and what scum tells are.
2. His Vote of kokusho with no way possible to actually establish a lynch on him. It seems more like sloppy play than scummy, as none of his play at this point seems to be to drive the town toward lynching someone. Which is why i think he's clear.
Unlike you, Rahl, who was driving us toward either a lynch of tuatha (with a vote till just now) or a lynch of me (with your crazy pbpa that showed nothing). Now that im the better and easier target, youve switched to only voting me so that i can be lynched. w/e, If you succeed in lynching me, you are certainly the lynch tomorrow (barring any weird shenanigans like a one time-vig), so i really dont mind the direction the town is going right now.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Meh, i get the feeling the town is going to end this day lynching me anyhow. But at least they'll gain a lot of info from my lynch.
As for that post Rahl, youll notice the part i said about not voting and FOSing someone if they're near lynch so they can claim?
W/e. Im at 3 votes...no? Ill claim at 5 votes.
Incidentally, backing off a person , or defending oneself from accusations is not actually a scummy trait. But you're well aware of that, and are certain the town will believe you over me (and you're probably right in that regard).
I didn't say that defending oneself is a scummy trait, im doing that now, that's what this is. Every post you make attacking me, i make one attacking you. Tit-for-Tat.
BUT, if you are suspicious of someone, and then suddenly, you have a total 180 regarding them as you start to get hit over attacking them and another person... that is actually slightly scummy. You are to take each thing one battle at a time, you can have idea's and even FOS's, but once you start to attack someone, you should stick with that person until said conflict is resolved.
Quote from loran16 »
I have to do work now so i cant do a PBPA of Tuatha, but things that make me think he isnt mafia right now are:
1. His utter confusion about this game and what scum tells are.
2. His Vote of kokusho with no way possible to actually establish a lynch on him. It seems more like sloppy play than scummy, as none of his play at this point seems to be to drive the town toward lynching someone. Which is why i think he's clear.
Neither thing really seems like something that can convince ANYONE about a persons alignment. A newb, mafia or not, would not know what a scum trait is. And sloppy play is sloppy play. Someone who is playing a mafia for the first time would be as clueless as someone playing town for the first time. Either way is the same.
Quote from loran16 »
Unlike you, Rahl, who was driving us toward either a lynch of tuatha (with a vote till just now) or a lynch of me (with your crazy pbpa that showed nothing). Now that im the better and easier target, youve switched to only voting me so that i can be lynched. w/e, If you succeed in lynching me, you are certainly the lynch tomorrow (barring any weird shenanigans like a one time-vig), so i really dont mind the direction the town is going right now.
How is a single vote on someone in no real risk of getting lynched driving a lynch?
Actually, my PBPA did show a fair bit, i just sucked at explaining it. Some of the most important things have come up yet agian from various sides as better explained, and have been found curious... as for that last comment, if that's what happens that's what happens.
You attacked me, i defended myself with an attack on your credibility.
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:confused2:Asian-obsessed Elitist
Nan says: there should be more asian people
Lord Rahl: i agree
Nan says: they need to **** more
Quote from Feuerdrache »
Feuerdrache says: but but but
Lord Rahl says: what?
Feuerdrache says: she's a negroe!
I didn't say that defending oneself is a scummy trait, im doing that now, that's what this is. Every post you make attacking me, i make one attacking you. Tit-for-Tat.
BUT, if you are suspicious of someone, and then suddenly, you have a total 180 regarding them as you start to get hit over attacking them and another person... that is actually slightly scummy. You are to take each thing one battle at a time, you can have idea's and even FOS's, but once you start to attack someone, you should stick with that person until said conflict is resolved.
Neither thing really seems like something that can convince ANYONE about a persons alignment. A newb, mafia or not, would not know what a scum trait is. And sloppy play is sloppy play. Someone who is playing a mafia for the first time would be as clueless as someone playing town for the first time. Either way is the same.
How is a single vote on someone in no real risk of getting lynched driving a lynch?
Actually, my PBPA did show a fair bit, i just sucked at explaining it. Some of the most important things have come up yet agian from various sides as better explained, and have been found curious... as for that last comment, if that's what happens that's what happens.
You attacked me, i defended myself with an attack on your credibility.
Okay, im too bored to do HW, so one quick comment....Your one vote wasnt driving my lynch...your huge pbpa and posts on my scumminess (despite not voting me) were trying to provoke a bandwagon on me, and now you're the 3rd/ voter on me. 3 votes is a wagon, and a third vote is most certainly something taht can be seen as trying to continue a wagons' momentum.
But okay, sure. And why do either of these things eem like they might not make his scum you ask?
Because
Neither thing really seems like something that can convince ANYONE about a persons alignment. A newb, mafia or not, would not know what a scum trait is. And sloppy play is sloppy play. Someone who is playing a mafia for the first time would be as clueless as someone playing town for the first time. Either way is the same.
a new townie would be one to make such a mistake. Im not saying that hestill might not be scum. But before i thought his actions were the genuine result of being scum. Now i can see thme being the genuine result of being new. As such, i have no facts that truely point to him as scum.
Thus the unvote.
*Incidentally, and i hate to bring up another game cuz people dont like it, regardless of how this turns out, i dont want this to be another Puchik -Passdog situation (Newb 5). So, Rahl, dont take any of these in-game comments personally :-).
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Okay, im too bored to do HW, so one quick comment....Your one vote wasnt driving my lynch...your huge pbpa and posts on my scumminess (despite not voting me) were trying to provoke a bandwagon on me, and now you're the 3rd/ voter on me. 3 votes is a wagon, and a third vote is most certainly something taht can be seen as trying to continue a wagons' momentum.
I was referring to how you were accusing me of trying to drive a lynch on Tuatha with just one vote. I am not driving a lynch on you either, for each tit you make upon me, i cause a tat upon you. I voted for you yes, BUT i have made my intentions of voting for you and tuatha clear from the start. I was waiting for something to lead me somewhere TO vote for one of you. A lack of activity pushed me to vote for Tuatha, and now your prolonged attack upon me inclined me to vote for you. The one use for a FOS.
Quote from loran16 »
But okay, sure. And why do either of these things eem like they might not make his scum you ask?
Because
a new townie would be one to make such a mistake. Im not saying that hestill might not be scum. But before i thought his actions were the genuine result of being scum. Now i can see thme being the genuine result of being new. As such, i have no facts that truely point to him as scum.
Thus the unvote.
Indeed, that IS possible, but it is something that occurs after the fact. As the town we cannot afford to take the risk that you would have done this regardless, if the situation regarding my attacks were to have not come up. For quite simply, you could VERY easily be doing this to erase some guilt/appearent aggessive tendencies...
*I highly doubt ill take it personally unless you insult me personally ;)*
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
:confused2:Asian-obsessed Elitist
Nan says: there should be more asian people
Lord Rahl: i agree
Nan says: they need to **** more
Quote from Feuerdrache »
Feuerdrache says: but but but
Lord Rahl says: what?
Feuerdrache says: she's a negroe!
ANd here i disagree rahl, its my mind that you finally voted me because you saw mosschop vote me.
*
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
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"I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
Well, how old are you? When your college is #1 overall, March madness takes quite the importance.
---------------------------------
Anyhow, Im going to try and do another analysis of things tonight, as the start of the nonrandom voting stage should be a better source of information than that part. I hope to get it done by tonight (dont get your hopes up so), .
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Lord rahl (1) - Lord rahl
Cyan (1) - KCW
Mosschop (1) - Tuatha
Tuatha (2) - Mosschop, loran16
Athos (1) - Athos
Diggy (1) - Diggy
Loran16 (1) - Cyan
FOS List:
Kokusho - Tuatha
loran16 - kops, Lord rahl, Cyan, Hooga
Tuatha - Lord rahl
With 11 in, a majority vote requires 6 to lynch!
4 players are currently not voting!
Next expected update: 3/18 12am
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Well, To get things going
Unvote, Vote Tuatha
And yet now, wanting day to go on, you vote for Tuatha without ANY explanation of how you gave your choice. You're no newb rahl (despite appearences on this site). Could it have been cuz she had two votes rather than one?
UNVOTE Tuatha.(No changes to her position, but Rahl's choice makes me a bit wary when its only 6 to lynch...)
VOTE LORD RAHL. Im rather curious how he made his decision all of a sudden....
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Rahl, did you intend to vote Tuatha in order to encourage action on the voting scene, or in order to evoke more reactions so we can have more information?
Either way could be seen as town or mafia, but I would like to know the motivation.
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
It's not concrete and i still dont trust Loran16 at all, but, its the standard mentality.
Tuatha is supicious as well; and at the moment, i dont have anything to urge me one way or another.
So i voted for Tuatha because when it comes down to it, there is slightly more cause for voting for him rather then just my gut.
I dont like Rahl's answer. The time for random voting is past, and day 1s go WAY longer than this here, so its not like we're areally dilly dallying. It seems to me like he was trying to reignite a bandwagon on Tuatha that for the moment was on hold, just for lynching someone purpose.
With that said, why dont i....
Vote Lord Rahl.
(An interesting note is that rahl voted himself in the random voting phase. This is a move that gives NO information about a player subliminally (unlike say Tuatha's random votes seemed to) , which is actually a smart move for an experienced player. It doesnt point particularly to scum, as a townie wouldnt want to get caught bandwagoing either, but its an interesting move. )
Still, this impatientness of Rahl doesnt seem to be that of a townie, but of a scum who made a slip to me (Its almost too subtle to be a townie vote).
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I have a bad headache and generally feel not so great. If I don't check up/date tomorrow, I'm either dead or just totally spent.
Next expected non-mod-prod update is currently basically whenever I feel like it. Sorry to all those who like my nice little daily updates. -_-;
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Did i say that this was random? No, i did not.
I said that you and tuatha were the people that were most suspicious to me, and that i voted for tuatha in that there was more of a lead for voting for him. He had substantial reasons to be voted for, wherein you didnt at the time... its changing pretty quickly.
Well, you can i guess...
Agian, you misrepresent me, i originally did vote for hooga as a random. After a period of time, a time wherein i no longer saw the point in randomness, i put the vote on myself to ensure that it would remalin active and that my name would appear on the vote list, something i use as a self-reminder thankyou. As for experienced, not too much no. Recently, my games include: 5 games. I got lynched in 2, one game died, i won one on day THREE as a randomly firing vig, and the last i was replaced in.
It isn't quite impatientness, it is more along the lines of a lack of posting for a large period of time, with my post being the only thing to have generated ANY discussion since then...
Post analysis later today...
~LordR
also, id like to say that i dont find rahl suspicious at all for doing what she did, knowing that id probably have done the same or a similar thing in her place (in fact i did in another game @ another site, cant talk about it tho cause its sill going on... but ill probly be lynched soon for it rofl)
"I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=917160&postcount=60
Notice here, he does not originally show up until the end of page 4, quite literally the last post if on default settings.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=917339&postcount=66
Claiming right here, that we have little information to go one. This is after my oddity, after tuatha's bouncying, and after most other information has begun.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=917368&postcount=68
Loran begins by saying to not do too much set-up analysis, then begins to do exactly that. Going into a fair amount of detail. Deny's the possibility of a Mafia Roleblocker, and of a Mafia Godfather, even though in the past there have been such roles in newb games.
"Given that there are 3 mafia, and 2 moonenites and 2 plutonites" I fail to have seen the mention of these other 4 roles.. the moonenites or the plutonites by kijin anywhere...
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=918572&postcount=70
Vote count/order.
Now, agian, he fails to mention anything about my voting for myself, but begins his assault on Tuatha, the sending of all suspicion away from him by being helpful. Votes for Tuatha here
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=918631&postcount=79
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=918593&postcount=72
Makes some valid points, but at the same time, he starts to raise my suspicion as he seems to utterly sure that he is displaying concrete scum traits.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=918600&postcount=74
"rather interesting that YOU of all people are Fosing me for analyzing and trying to get us moving"
Exactly what i was doing with my vote. States random voting is less the random.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=918620&postcount=77
Scum want townies to lynch each other according to him here. Now, the question is raised, if this is true, how come he is CONSTANTLY directing as much suspicion to as many people as possible? Tuatha, myself. The only people with any validity at all.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=918631&postcount=79
Votes for Tuatha Agian...
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=919019&postcount=94
Admits here that he is one of the two biggest targets in the town. Highly suspicious even to his own account. Mentions the power of voting accounts.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=919895&postcount=104
States that certian tells are human nature, and something that newer players have yet to realize.
"If you think someone is scum here, plz vote unless they're close to lynching"
I believed that Tuatha is mafia, either tuatha or Loran. So, i voted for tuatha on stronger base tells, and a better case other then just a "gut feeling". He voted for me based on this.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=923794&postcount=116
Admits i was between voting for Himself and Tuatha. Claims that i want day to go on, insinuating i voted for tuatha based on him having 2 votes. Votes for Lord Rahl.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=924201&postcount=119
States he doesnt care for my answer, and says that because the days on MTGS go long, this isnt unsual. REVOTES FOR ME AFTER 2 POSTS.
I have analysed the rest.
Important points:
Multiple times so far, the only two people Loran seems to have voted for, he voted for once, if there was no support, he unvoted and voted agian, trying to get some kind of forward motion going.
When no one seems to take my vote for tuatha that hardly, he unvoted, and then REVOTED in order to try to get momentum. Something that is quite common in more advanced games, and something that has gotten him into trouble multiple times.
All in all, he has been acting helpful at times, but also incredibly agressive. Attacking first tuatha, then myself when it seemed like he could.
I shall keep my vote on Tuatha because he has been really quiet, hasnt said much really in defence, and is just... quiet.
But loran shall recieve a big whopping FOS.
~~Lord Rahl.
*P.S. sorry bout the length...*
EBWODP:
Sorry about this, ignore point 1. I forgot that he replaced deliverance
I will request that Lord Rahl stop posting in bold. It confuses people when you actually FOS or vote. Also, usually the mod is the person who posts in bold, so causes more confusion.
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
{This post is more a reminder to myself than anyting, actually, becase now I won't have to go through the entire thread again.}
Meh.
I gotta go now, but analysis later.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
umm, Okay, Im not sure if im supposed to say this, but I was following along with Sorryguy and talking quite frequently via AIM to him during the last newb. SG told me he wanted avabob "Mafia Leader" to be a godfather, but Vecna vetoed it because he didnt want a godfather in the newb game.
Now i didnt deny the possibliity of a role blocker. Its very possible (Been in newb 5 and newb 6 at least). But its also possible for it not to be there. Course its impossible to know.
Now my point on moonenites and plutonites was to back up the fact that setup analysis, BASED ON THEME,is impossible. I was mentioning them bc someone before hand said that based on the wiki, these 4 and mc pee pants seem like the bad guys of the show. I was showing that having both groups as mafia was rather impossible based on previous newb trends. So i concluded that post saying its impossible, until we lynch scum, to determine what roles could be scum/mafia, as ANY roles in this show have reason to dislike the ATHF, and no particular groups of characters (which are only these pairs, all other characters are singletons) are necessarily mafia.
Ill go through the rest of your PBPA later. Its VERY VERY interesting , but i gotta pack for tomorrows plane flight as spring break ends tomorrow.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Umumum. I would say something on topic, but I'm not sure what it would be.
You could start with an explanation of why you've been hopping around your vote so much.
Early Morning Votecount:
Lord rahl (1) - loran16
Cyan (1) - KCW
Tuatha (1) - Lord rahl
Athos (1) - Athos
Diggy (1) - Diggy
Loran16 (1) - Cyan
FOS List:
Kokusho - 2x Tuatha
loran16 - kops, Lord rahl, Cyan, Hooga, Mosschop, Tuatha
Tuatha - Lord rahl
Lord rahl - Mosschop, Tuatha
With 11 in, a majority vote requires 6 to lynch!
5 players are currently not voting!
Next update: sometime tomorrow unless there is little progress.
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Umm, i'm not really trying to start a bandwagon on loran. He has one vote, and not even mine.
He is attacking me, and the best way to render such an attack inert is to attack him back and render his position as less tenable. A place from which he cannot launch attacks as easily
A random citizen getting accused by a known liar wouldnt get very much of an investigation eh?
"I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
-------------------------------
Time for a response on Rahl.
Okay, Going point by point.
I replaced Deliv. Thus my late arrival and quick early posts. I had yet to review the posts of everyone involved until my first Tuatha accusation.
Ive explained my objections to this analysis already.
So for not noting your vote for yourself, this means....I fail to see how this is a point against me.
A key thing to note is that i have no suspicion on me at the time, so why would i try to divert suspicion? A point should be made that i heavily criticized Bluesoul in my analysis of newb 6 for being a way too helpful scum, and the town for not investigating the way too helpful player. Id like to think i wouldnt follow bluesoul's example if i was scum (unfortunately, I dont have any finished games to show examples of my play from any side or whatnot, tho i should be dead in seinfeld soon so you can look at that for my playstyle.).
Interesting.... By explaining why people think OMGUS votes are seen as scummy, I am seeming to raise your suspicion?
I can see how i look scummy, but your reasoning makes no sense here....
Errr, Okay, still not seeing relevance of this. (For those who dont know, Kops basically had a post 3/4 the way through day 1 in the last newb mafia , where he voted every townie and screamed at the rest of the town that they werent lynching someone fast enough. Really dumb i thought).
Errr, I've at this point only accused Tuatha, and no one else of scum traits and being possible mafia. Im VERY confused. Now if you're jumping ahead to current time, youll notice ive only ever voted (never fosed) two people, and have not been pointing fingers at any1 else without justification.
I revoted for emphasis, but still dont see the scumminess.
Lets see, notice all the FOSes on me? Of course im one of two most suspicious persons at this time. Of course, the town is suspicous of me for HELPING the others see scum traits, something you still havent pointed out for some reason.
Curious about the first part....Not very scummy. As to the second, Kijin wasnt keeping track of FOSes. That said he has now, but im still not thrilled with it. They dont actually do anything, but allow a scum to FOS a bunch of people the town things are suspicious, allowing him to say in later days after we lynch scum, "look i FOSed the scum we lynched!" (like Avabob in Newb 6, though he FOSed everyone in the town, which was an obvious scum trait.).
Interesting little thing we have to be careful here. If Im lynched and am not scum, (which im not), Tuatha IS NOT necessarily scum. Fallilng into traps like that is a real bad way to waste a day 2 lynch. When we get to day 2, looking at who voted for which people should be our best way to find scum at first, not which suspicious person did we not lynch....
"Admits?" "Claims?" Interesting. You're using words here that modify my intentions in this post. I Pointed Out your talks about a possible vote before, and speculated it was because of Tuatha's higher vote count.
*Some spacing in this last quote may look weird, but my firefox browser was displaying it weird and a few extra spaces cleared it up. No words or what not have been changed*
Things to note.
A. Is unvoting then revoting for emphasis a common thing in advanced games? I havent seen it ever done here by a single poster as part of his posting style, maybe its advanced on mafiascum.com?
B. I told you we arent being slow for this site, so its not like there was a need to make a decision on who to vote for yet. And yet you made one without any real backing or explanation. Thus my revoting you.
C. I havent really been that agressive, pointing out why certain traits were scummy in Tuatha and making 2 posts explaining why you suddently made a scummy move. You want aggressive? Watch Hunted Charlie play. Most BLOODTHIRSTY play EVER! (Seriously, it makes me cringe to reread newb 6). I fail to see how pointing out a few scum traits in two players, is super aggressive.
Throughout the PBPA, you state things about my posts that have NOTHING to do with me being scummy. In fact, they dont have anything to do with scum traits, and yet you put them in here. Meanwhile, you use make certain word choices like:
Claiming right here, that we have little information to go one
Now, the question is raised, if this is true, how come he is CONSTANTLY directing as much suspicion
Admits i was between voting for Himself and Tuatha. Claims that i want day to go on, insinuating i voted for tuatha based on him having 2 votes. [U]Votes for Lord Rahl[/U]Admits here that he is one of the two biggest targets in the town.[U].
[/U]And considering you're FOS of me and suspicion on me has one basis of the fact that i:
seems to(o) utterly sure that he is displaying concrete scum traits.
you seem to try and make ALL of my speculations seem like i was stating a fact, rather than clearly speculating.
Now the question is...are you doing this on purpose?
Considering the fact, you made a PBPA on me that didnt really show anything scummy about me, and then continued to say i was acting scummy WITHOUT changing your vote to me (but simply using a useless FOS), i think the answer is YES.
Its like you're afraid of voting me for fear of it being an OMGUS vote, but want to raise the towns suspicion on me rather than yourself, and yet you want to keep your vote on Tuatha just in case.
So at this point, unless someone else makes a scum blowup, I think Rahl is most likely mafia. The fact that he did a PBPA on me that didnt point out anything scummy, concluded i was a possible mafia from it, then only FOSed me for it just strikes me as currently more suspicious than Tuatha is at this point.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Usually everyone posts; most mafia games move a little faster than this. Except on mafiascum, those games move like molasses.
The speed varies. At one point in the last newb game, all but one player was online at once, so they acquired like 9 pages of posts in 3 hours. Most rediculous thing I have EVER EVER seen.
Day 1s here as ive said before are slow because, A. Lack of confirmed information about a player (in other words, you dont know the identity and alignment of a dead player, and who wanted him dead) and B. Well, sometimes people have other things to do rather than serious mafia playing.
Of course in the non newb games like Romance mafia or sin city, things go rather fast.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
"I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
Let's look at your response to Rahl:
Now, I have to ask you, "scum traits"? Only complete newb scum would actually exhibit scum traits - the other scum will know about them and, for the most part, avoid them. Which is why I don't think that the so-called "scum traits" you seem to be looking for will actually help us, except in the case of players that haven't played before.
How is this relavent? Well you have played before, so if you are scum, you're not going to be exhibiting these "scum traits" you're so aware of. The same goes for Lord Rahl. A player like Tuatha might, on the other hand, since they are completely new.
Which is why I fail to see how Lord Rahl not pointing out specific scum traits means you aren't scum.
Instead of scum traits, Rahl points out scummy actions.
These actions are scummy because they're concurrent with scum objectives. That is, they want townies to lynch townies quickly. It seems like you are encouraging a quick lynch. Since you have voted Tuatha and Rahl on bases that I consider only very slight evidence, and you have revoted for emphasis for each of them, it seems like you are trying to drum up more votes. There's no reason to revote for emphasis other than to garner vote support. One can see your vote the first time, and its reflected in every votecount. More vote support on simple "speculations" is something a mafia would want to do.
also where Loran unvote+votes rahl after only 2 posts, there's no reason to do this.
Note that in my criticism of these specific "scum traits" Loran points out, I'm NOT saying that lack of "scum traits" is more likely to make Loran or Rahl scum. That's WIFOM craplogic. Rather, what I'm saying is we can't use the presence of "scum traits" or the lack of "scum traits" at ALL for the experienced players here. We just can't consider them.
Some more analysis of posts:
Why do you dismiss someone's post on the count of being "hilarious" or "you should read XYZ" or comparing to someone else's past play? This isn't a defence of your actions, its just trying to deflect attention to somewhere else or trying to dismiss the suspicions without offering significant logic to back it up.
I fail to see how this is a proper defence. You are the one who determines if this statement is true or not, as we have no idea if you will actually follow your own advice. It leads to WIFOM logic on our part, which is bad.
Did anyone say that? I re-read all the posts criticising you and I only saw one post saying you had gone after more people that just Tuatha and Lord Rahl.
Cyan said:
He doesn't even say that you're attacking many players, simply that you're attacking players for little to no evidence.
So in your "people think im accusing many people" post, you seem to be making up an accusation you've received. Not sure how to interpret this, but evidently misinformation never helps the town.
In conclusion:
You, Loran, are being aggressive. You're acting exactly like HC in newb 6 - you made the comparison, and said you weren't as aggressive, but I disagree. You're jumping on small scum traits that don't give us any information, and have an obsession with these typical scum traits. Smart players would avoid these traits, so we can't typify all scum with these traits.
Your voting patterns encourage people to vote without thinking. Re-voting "for emphasis" doesn't help give more evidence or more logic, it simply makes the vote more visible. There's no point to doing that unless you want more people to vote, which could be seen as more of a mafia action than a town action.
You're also making logic errors and acting defensively at slight accusations. However you don't provide solid defensive evidence, instead referring us to things that seem like they clear you, but upon thinking, do nothing for your case (for example, referring to your comments on HC at the end of newb 6).
my FOS stands.
now for the reason why my FOS doesn't turn into a vote:
Tuatha, when you vote, we need to hear why you vote. Saying
doesn't tell us anyting about why this behaviour is odd. Furthermore, Koko has made a whopping total of one recent post, short of spammy posts like
and telling us to keep it civil after misreading someone's comment. And in that one relavent post, all he's done is saying Loran has been using "crazy logic". That seems to be a common sentiment, and doesn't strike me as odd behaviour at all.
I need some reasons from Tuatha, and some proper defence from Tuatha, and that's why I'm going to Vote Tuatha
quite simply, after being accused of voting without reasons, you vote again without reasons
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
Lord rahl (1) - loran16
Cyan (1) - KCW
Tuatha (2) - Lord rahl, Hooga
Athos (1) - Athos
Diggy (1) - Diggy
Loran16 (1) - Cyan
Kokusho (1) - Tuatha
FOS List:
Kokusho - 2x Tuatha
loran16 - kops, Lord rahl, Cyan, Hooga, Mosschop, Tuatha, kokusho
Tuatha - Lord rahl
Lord rahl - Mosschop, Tuatha
With 11 in, a majority vote requires 6 to lynch!
3 players are currently not voting!
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Even experienced players give off scum traits, they just tend to be more subtle as they avoid obvious tells.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Let me explain this to you Moss, the reason why im defending myself against little votes, is that what I feel Rahl is doing is trying to shove suspicion my way, WITHOUT voting me, so as to seem like hes not being
A. Aggressive
B. Not on the lynch of a townie should i be lynched
and C. So as he's still on the lynch of Tuatha should we lynch him.
Rahl is in my opinion subtly trying to shift attention and suspicion towards me, without voting himself.
And im therefore defending myself in response, because what he's doing is trying to get votes on me, despite his vote on Tuatha .
As for Hooga.
First of all, to repeat, even experienced mafia players can exude scum traits. They often avoid the obvious ones, but they are still detectable. To say that looking at scum traits for experienced players is pointless is the dumbest thing i have ever heard in a mafia game.
Now: When have i tried to make this day go faster with a quick lynch? IVE criticized people, like Rahl, for impatience, saying that days go long here. How does revoting for emphasis mean that im trying to get people to vote on them quickly? Its the same as if when ive already voted for one person, and then i make a post concluding that they are scum! Its just instead of saying, inconclusion, he is mafia, i go Unvote revote X. (Kijin, that was NOT an unvote).
Incidentally, Rahl didnt show any posts where my actions were scummy, (though he may have tried to make that revoting for emphasis is scummy point? I couldn't tell), but instead thought that i was too sure about certain things. Of course the posts he points out that show this actually have to do with me explaining why an OMGUS vote is considered a scummy action. So apparently being helpful is being too sure about something. GREAT.
Now lets look at Cyan's quote again:
Now unless im reading this wrong, Cyan (and others have as well) has accused me of throwing accusations around at everyone. In fact i only voted Tuatha (for stated reasons, which were scum traits) and Rahl (for reasons no one else seems to see *sigh).
Rahl accused me of being really aggressive, which is the same thing. In fact i really haven't as all of my accusations are backed up by reasoning and logic. The only reason people think my accusatinos are aggressive, is that no one else is DOING that, like they do in other games here.
----------------------------------------
On a side note, Im actually starting to believe Tuatha isnt scum. Ill wait till he posts his reasons about kokusho before making a pbpa outlining my reasons, but i think he is townie at this point.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Loran, Cyan is the only one who said that you were throwing accusations at anyone (or everyone). No one else has said that - I checked 1/2 the posts in the thread (from when you first voted Tuatha). I too know that you are suspecting/voting only Rahl and Tuatha, and Rahl was in response to his suspicions of you. The point here is you continually state that there are many people who believe you are throwing accusations around, whereas Cyan is the only person to have said such.
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
Rahl, and Cyan have said it, and i swear someone else.
And i didnt vote Rah in resposne to his suspicon of me.... he voted Tuatha, not Me before i voted him. He'd already had me FOSed for a while at the time.
Okay, class time now.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
If you say sooo...., And no, i dont FOS people for no reason. As for taking an action i dont like...there are a few votes on me , and 6 FOSes! You think i like that? And yet you dont see me pointing fingers at people, lol.
W/e cyan. Tho i will take being called "More knowledgeable about mafia than the rest of you" as a nice compliment, if unfortunately untrue *sigh*. If i was more knowledgable id be able to convince people better. Meh.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Well, for this i have a retort, you stated at an earlier point after all the FOS'ing, At the point i voted for tuatha, he wasnt really close to a lynching, and you WERE encouraging, in a manner, a faster system of lynching. To power out the votes until such time as they were rediculously close to lynching.
For this, i concider the vote/unvote/revote scummy as it is an attempt to drum up support for your position. There is no other logical advantage to doing so. You dont forget who your vote is on, and Kijin will update the votes daily so people know what your position is...
Yes, i believe you are reading this wrong. SO far, me and tuatha were the only ones to act odd or even speak up, except for Cyan really. In this instance, if you were to attack Cyan off the bat, then you would look like you are taking advantage of his newb-ness, giving a reason to not attack him. Hence, in a manner of speaking, we are everyone who is slightly suspicious.
In some places it is crap logic. Your reasoning is very faulty in many places, and your logic leaves much to be desired. Logic, for many points in mafia ,are just disasters waiting to happen due to WIFOM. LOGICALLY, if i were scum i would wait until someone has a few votes and then flood them with votes, resulting in a lynch. Problem with that is, it has been done to death, and often it is NOT the mafia who cause the 3rd vote... WIFOM.
And here you back off of Tuatha, after declaring earlier that you were almost sure he was mafia... Agian, scummy. The heat comes up, so you back off the only target you can without losing face.
If you were to back off attacking me, it would make your overall position horrible, due to the amount of fevour you have put into it. Tuatha was small, and before me, therefore more forgetable, more forgivable. So you lose some heat from that position, and seem like you are admitting that you are wrong, eliminating one of the accusations agianst you.
Facing this, i shall do the very thing you say i am afraid to do.
UNVOTE Tuatha, Vote Loran16.
As for that post Rahl, youll notice the part i said about not voting and FOSing someone if they're near lynch so they can claim?
W/e. Im at 3 votes...no? Ill claim at 5 votes.
Incidentally, backing off a person , or defending oneself from accusations is not actually a scummy trait. But you're well aware of that, and are certain the town will believe you over me (and you're probably right in that regard).
I have to do work now so i cant do a PBPA of Tuatha, but things that make me think he isnt mafia right now are:
1. His utter confusion about this game and what scum tells are.
2. His Vote of kokusho with no way possible to actually establish a lynch on him. It seems more like sloppy play than scummy, as none of his play at this point seems to be to drive the town toward lynching someone. Which is why i think he's clear.
Unlike you, Rahl, who was driving us toward either a lynch of tuatha (with a vote till just now) or a lynch of me (with your crazy pbpa that showed nothing). Now that im the better and easier target, youve switched to only voting me so that i can be lynched. w/e, If you succeed in lynching me, you are certainly the lynch tomorrow (barring any weird shenanigans like a one time-vig), so i really dont mind the direction the town is going right now.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I didn't say that defending oneself is a scummy trait, im doing that now, that's what this is. Every post you make attacking me, i make one attacking you. Tit-for-Tat.
BUT, if you are suspicious of someone, and then suddenly, you have a total 180 regarding them as you start to get hit over attacking them and another person... that is actually slightly scummy. You are to take each thing one battle at a time, you can have idea's and even FOS's, but once you start to attack someone, you should stick with that person until said conflict is resolved.
Neither thing really seems like something that can convince ANYONE about a persons alignment. A newb, mafia or not, would not know what a scum trait is. And sloppy play is sloppy play. Someone who is playing a mafia for the first time would be as clueless as someone playing town for the first time. Either way is the same.
How is a single vote on someone in no real risk of getting lynched driving a lynch?
Actually, my PBPA did show a fair bit, i just sucked at explaining it. Some of the most important things have come up yet agian from various sides as better explained, and have been found curious... as for that last comment, if that's what happens that's what happens.
You attacked me, i defended myself with an attack on your credibility.
Okay, im too bored to do HW, so one quick comment....Your one vote wasnt driving my lynch...your huge pbpa and posts on my scumminess (despite not voting me) were trying to provoke a bandwagon on me, and now you're the 3rd/ voter on me. 3 votes is a wagon, and a third vote is most certainly something taht can be seen as trying to continue a wagons' momentum.
But okay, sure. And why do either of these things eem like they might not make his scum you ask?
Because
a new townie would be one to make such a mistake. Im not saying that hestill might not be scum. But before i thought his actions were the genuine result of being scum. Now i can see thme being the genuine result of being new. As such, i have no facts that truely point to him as scum.
Thus the unvote.
*Incidentally, and i hate to bring up another game cuz people dont like it, regardless of how this turns out, i dont want this to be another Puchik -Passdog situation (Newb 5). So, Rahl, dont take any of these in-game comments personally :-).
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I was referring to how you were accusing me of trying to drive a lynch on Tuatha with just one vote. I am not driving a lynch on you either, for each tit you make upon me, i cause a tat upon you. I voted for you yes, BUT i have made my intentions of voting for you and tuatha clear from the start. I was waiting for something to lead me somewhere TO vote for one of you. A lack of activity pushed me to vote for Tuatha, and now your prolonged attack upon me inclined me to vote for you. The one use for a FOS.
Indeed, that IS possible, but it is something that occurs after the fact. As the town we cannot afford to take the risk that you would have done this regardless, if the situation regarding my attacks were to have not come up. For quite simply, you could VERY easily be doing this to erase some guilt/appearent aggessive tendencies...
*I highly doubt ill take it personally unless you insult me personally ;)*
*
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity