FOS Kokusho, the evening star. For chasing Diggy so much, (especially for revoting, even though it was a random vote) (I think random, unless you have reason Koko, in which case please explain).
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<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|It is Night 0. Night ends in 180 s (or when all choices are in). Submit actions to fadeblue
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
Wow, it just goes to show how much one can miss when they got o sleep for a few hours.
I'm sicking with my vote though, I don't want to just randomly change it on a whim.
(What? Stop staring. Yes I did it once, but that was spite. He voted for me.)
EBWODP(Sorry, FadeBlue, I forgot to put this.): I will, however, FOS Kokusho for his habit of rapidly changing his vote.
Howdy yall! Im just checking in right now, though i have read along with you guys, id like to make another run through before i make a detailed post.
So ill post in a bit.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Hey I wanted to lynch deliverance because I think he was making the game unfun. Then I went back to diggy because I was bored.
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"No, I specifically heard denim. Looks like so crafty ghost is trying to break our code" -Bravo 3 "I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
Yes Cyan. You can, by Unvoteing and then voting again. (To Kijin: That was an unvote for any votes deliv might have).
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
"No, I specifically heard denim. Looks like so crafty ghost is trying to break our code" -Bravo 3 "I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
Cyan, generally, from the first day's lynch, assuming no slip ups by the scum, you can gather information about whose actions seemed to be against the town. In most games around here, a person is actually night killed night 0 before the game begins, which gives the town some information to work with day 1. Given how this is a newbie game and every1 deserves to play at least a day, there is no night 0 kill, and thus day 1s tend to seem to drag on and be a bit random.
But as you can see in Douglas Adams or Romance mafia, there is always the chance, a pretty good on eactually, that from voting patterns and what not the town can find scum on day 1.
So thats what we're trying to do. Of course right now we just finished the random vote stage of the game, so we really dont have too much information (but we do have some...)
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
So...is there actual strategy involved in this game?
Yeas, there is.
Basically the first day is rather slow since there's very little information to work with (barring a cop randomly ID'ing scum - which won't happen here since there were no night one actions). After we actually lynch someone (and day one is going to be a very random lynch), we can look at reactions, and see if there are any patterns or clues that might lead us to the scum during future days.
Also, I apologize to the thread in general. I wasn't intentionally trying to cause problems, I was just asking questions. My wording could have been better. Kijin, Vecna and I have taken the discussion offstage and I think we're cool now.
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Straddling the thin line between genius and insanity.
Now before yall start doing setup speculation....(something i do way tooo much),
Consider this:
Newb mafia games are mini games, and pretty much always have a total of 3 mafia in them (25%). Mafia generally are vanilla in newb games, but the last 2 have featured mafia roleblockers and "mafia godfathers" are NOT used here in Newb games (or at least Vecna DOESNT want them to be, and this game was approved by Vecna).
Townies in Newb games have a sane Cop, and a doc, and either 1-3 other roles depending on the mod. The rest of the players are vanilla.
Now considering our theme. Given that there are 3 mafia, and 2 moonenites and 2 plutonites, not to mention the fact that they fight each other in spacecataz segments, indicates that the two groups most likely are not scum together (one group may be scum). Furthermore, almost every no ATHF character in the show, at some episode or another, wants to kill the ATHF. Even CARL, the sole main character who wasnt "NK"ed in the games beginning, has reasons to want to kill the ATHF.
As such, its rather useless for us to be speculating on what characters/minor characters are scum right now, as this show is SOOO Random (So random that im not a fan, despite liking most adult swim shows) that guessing without finding a scum first (to see what type of character is scum) would be pointless.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
thank god we got rid of deliverance... to be honest he was starting to get on my nerves quite badly... as such unvote... i need to reread the thread as im not familiar with you guys yet so i dont really know who said what... ill post later with my early game thoughts... not much else to say at the moment, at least before i read the thread
Voting behavior so far:
Hooga-votes Kops
Rahl –Votes Hooga
Kokusho-Votes Diggy
KCW-Votes Kokusho
Athos-Votes himself (random.org)
Diggy-Votese Lord Rahl
Cyan-Votes Hooga (2 on hooga)
Mosschop-Votes Cyan
Tuatha-Votes Hooga (3 on hooga, stating why not run with the flock)
Mosschop-Revotes Tuatha
Tuatha-Revote Mosschop (OMGUS)
Cyan-Revote Mosschop (OMGUS, 2 on mosschop)
KCW-Revote Cyan
Kops-Vote Cyan (2 on Cyan)
Hooga-Unvote
Lord rahl-Votes himself
Deliv/me-votes KCW???(Editted post)
Kops-Vote Deliv due to edit
Diggy-Unvote
Kok-Unvote, Vote Deliv
Diggy-Vote the mod.
Kok-Unvote-Vote Diggy
(For those who are newbs..., OMGUS means Oh my god you suck, which essentially is a vote out of spite against a person for voting you. Generally, its a newb scum trait.)
Other notable things (but not necessarily scum tells):
KCW has been pointing out bandwagoning/being flipfloppy and has been pointing suspicion at them
After KCW points out Kok's flip-floppy voting and Hooga FOSES him, Tuatha quickly follows with a FOS of Kokusho citing KCW's EXACT reasons.
---------------------------------------------------------
So what can we say about this? Cyan might be suspect, but his question about strategy makes me think that he's town or just really really newbish (in mafia, not on the boards Cyan :-P), and KCW's no noob.
But Tuatha shows strong signs of scum tells, from bandwagoning on Hooga (stating bandwagoning for her(his?) reason!), then the OMGUS vote on mosschop in response, and then finally FOSing Kokusho when it seems like its the current trend. She seems to be doing whatever it takes to encourage the town to lynch another player.
Tuatha is for sure right now our biggest lead. UNVOTE, VOTE TUATHA.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Yes, I guess today is more or less random in terms of votes. A shame. Things will be so much more interesting when we have some information to work with.
EBWODP{Yet again, I'm so sorry. This will be the last time, I swear.}
You're a horrible person. I fail to see what's so suspicious about voting out of spite when there's no information to go on.
EBWODP{Yet again, I'm so sorry. This will be the last time, I swear.}
You're a horrible person. I fail to see what's so suspicious about voting out of spite when there's no information to go on.
An OMGUS vote is a scum tell because it attempts to convince others not to vote for you (or to unvote) by threatening to add a vote to that person (in this case mosschop). As such, its an attempt to intimidate a person so that they will unvote you.
And "Im not a horrible Person". Im pointing out that you have made scum tells, and that as far as i can see , you are currently our biggest lead. (Welcome to mafia )
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
ok thats the last time im reading the first 4 pages of this thread... i just got even more ticked off at deliverence rofl... honestly though not enough to go on, but i think loran is trying almost too hard to be helpful... i mean cmon whatr we gonna do with voting behavior on the first couple of pages? personally i dont think anyone merits a vote yet but very minor fos loran
ok thats the last time im reading the first 4 pages of this thread... i just got even more ticked off at deliverence rofl... honestly though not enough to go on, but i think loran is trying almost too hard to be helpful... i mean cmon whatr we gonna do with voting behavior on the first couple of pages? personally i dont think anyone merits a vote yet but very minor fos loran
ROFL, do ya think im Blue soul in Newb 6 Kops?
That said, voting behavior during the random vote period is surprisingly less random, and Tuatha's tendency to either bandwagon or throw OMGUS votes around is clearly NOT random. So in this case, we can use them for analyzing.
(rather interesting that YOU of all people are Fosing me for analyzing and trying to get us moving, when it was u who had a conniption about day 1 going too slowly last mafia game lol).
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
People have pointed out my 'flip-flop' but who here did not want to lynch deliverance? Unvote. Randoms done.
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"No, I specifically heard denim. Looks like so crafty ghost is trying to break our code" -Bravo 3 "I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
Why is it not random? I've never even played this before!
(Well, i guess I sort of have, actually. In Nova Scotia, a group of people did something similar, but live-action or in-person or whatever term you use)
Why is it not random? I've never even played this before!
(Well, i guess I sort of have, actually. In Nova Scotia, a group of people did something similar, but live-action or in-person or whatever term you use)
Human nature Tuatha, and scummy nature at that. The scum in this game want to encourage townies to lynch other townies, as it means that the next day 2 townies will be down (not to mention it prolongs their survivability). Thats basic survival nature right there. Nonexperience doesnt make it less random, (in fact experience might make it MORE random as experienced scum would know better than to do this).
Which is why i think you're scum. Your behavior is very similar to Keeper's in Newb 6, just with a smaller sample size. Still, its the best to go on, and thus why im voting for you as our best lead.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Are you saying that all of my actions are predetermined by some sort of mysterious subconscious urge that indicates me as mafia?
That seems just a tiny bit unlikely, in my opinion.
Who said subconscious? You've been following the crowd's votes and Foses, and your one vote that wasnt doing this was an OMGUS vote. You dont need to play mafia to understand why this is very scum-like.
And since your questions are seemingly burying my vote ill UNVOTE, VOTE Tuatha for emphasis.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Just because I don't think I have strange urges governing what I do in a game of Mafia. It's a silly idea, in my opinion.
He's not talking about strange urges. He's talking about natural human reactions to stress situations where you have a hidden agenda. In poker it would be called a tell.
You've given some very natural scum tells that are common to new players in this game.
I'm not quite ready to vote for you, but I think there's an excellent chance I will once I've re-read.
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Straddling the thin line between genius and insanity.
Well, tendencies, obviously, but I find it hard to believe that they'd offer insight unless you knew the player's style with different roles very well.
Well, tendencies, obviously, but I find it hard to believe that they'd offer insight unless you knew the player's style with different roles very well.
This is what you're missing here. They're common tells based off of human nature. That's why they're so damning. Almost anyone who is unaware of their existence falls into the trap of using them.
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Straddling the thin line between genius and insanity.
Well, tendencies, obviously, but I find it hard to believe that they'd offer insight unless you knew the player's style with different roles very well.
Well, we know the new player's tendency when mafia to bandwagon and hop around from person to person (see also: Machin Shin in Douglas Adams mafia), and you're fitting into that. Are you saying that you don't follow the normal pattern?
Tuatha for the obvious reasons, along with Loran for being SO horribly helpful... a plan that has worked for many scum in more advanced games then this, and a strategy that could go a long way in a game where the players are less accustomed to having to work around strategies then that...
FOS Tuatha, FOS Loran16
Either one could garner my vote depending on the actions that we have...
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:confused2:Asian-obsessed Elitist
Nan says: there should be more asian people
Lord Rahl: i agree
Nan says: they need to **** more
Quote from Feuerdrache »
Feuerdrache says: but but but
Lord Rahl says: what?
Feuerdrache says: she's a negroe!
Tuatha for the obvious reasons, along with Loran for being SO horribly helpful... a plan that has worked for many scum in more advanced games then this, and a strategy that could go a long way in a game where the players are less accustomed to having to work around strategies then that...
FOS Tuatha, FOS Loran16
Either one could garner my vote depending on the actions that we have...
Hah, Hilarious. You should read Newb 6, where despite not being the game i did a post game tip session for the players, and i critiziced one scum for being too helpful.
But meh, its a good idea anyhow in newb games (and other games) to make a note of who's trying to be helpful. Generally Id think such people would make better investigation targets tho, so that the town can make sure they arent leading the town astray, without lynching a possible vet trying to help a bunch of newbs. Thats basically why Azreal, Puzzle, and Axelrod get investigated in basically every game here.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
"No, I specifically heard denim. Looks like so crafty ghost is trying to break our code" -Bravo 3 "I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
?? I think we're all being quite civil right now....especially compared to the earlier portion of this thread.
*Loran is confused*
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
well I don't want to repeat what's been said but after reading the thread my opinions are the same as Lord rahl's. Basically, Tuatha is showing a scum tell and defending it with newbness isn't the best defence, since it doesn't explain the voting behaviour. However,
I see one bandwagon on Tuatha's part (on Hooga (me)), then I see the OMGUS. What I don't see is how the FOS is bandwagoning - Koko was acting suspicious, enough to merit a FOS from me. So I would say insufficient evidence for now and IMO not enough to merit a FOS on Tuatha from me.
I definitely think that Loran's helpfulness merits further investigation. Loran, you're jumping on the evidence we have, which is good, but you're inflating it somewhat out of proportion.
@ Koko, in my opinion I don't think "flip flopping" was what you were doing there, as you only changed your vote among 2 people (Diggy <--> Deliverance). However, I FOSed you not for "flip flopping" but for continuing to pursure Diggy even after you unvoted Deliverance. There was absolutely no reason to return to a random vote. IMO that is suspicious.
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<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|It is Night 0. Night ends in 180 s (or when all choices are in). Submit actions to fadeblue
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
well I don't want to repeat what's been said but after reading the thread my opinions are the same as Lord rahl's. Basically, Tuatha is showing a scum tell and defending it with newbness isn't the best defence, since it doesn't explain the voting behaviour. However,
I see one bandwagon on Tuatha's part (on Hooga (me)), then I see the OMGUS. What I don't see is how the FOS is bandwagoning - Koko was acting suspicious, enough to merit a FOS from me. So I would say insufficient evidence for now and IMO not enough to merit a FOS on Tuatha from me.
I definitely think that Loran's helpfulness merits further investigation. Loran, you're jumping on the evidence we have, which is good, but you're inflating it somewhat out of proportion.
@ Koko, in my opinion I don't think "flip flopping" was what you were doing there, as you only changed your vote among 2 people (Diggy <--> Deliverance). However, I FOSed you not for "flip flopping" but for continuing to pursure Diggy even after you unvoted Deliverance. There was absolutely no reason to return to a random vote. IMO that is suspicious.
Meh, in my mind the FOSwagon on Kokusho is pretty much similar to a bandwagon. Its essentially forcing more suspcion onto a person townies already have suspcion on, especially basically saying in the same exact words KCW's explanation.
As for Kokusho's revoting , meh. IDK, i tend to think the whole deliverance fiasco screwed things up a lil, so its hard to tell, Kok couldve just thought w/o Deliv's shenanigans we'd go back to random voting, and going back to the random vote is more or less the same as rerandom voting.
There is pretty much ZERO chance that Kokusho's vote diggy for no reason wouldve led to a lynch on diggy and it certainly wasnt bandwagoning, which is why i SERIOUSLY doubt its a scum tell (he may yet be scum, he hasnt actually said anything on topic recently, only "calm down guys" when we were all calm, which is actually a bit weird imo).
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
So, what, everyone just keeps chatting back and forth and from that, somehow, someone will end up with a majority vote against him/herself?
Essentially. You see from someon doing analysis, people make up conclusions about who is scum/mafia, and who is just a townie.
So my analysis and Tuatha's response have put both me and Tuatha as the center of the town's suspicion, and Kok's actions have led Hooga to suspect him.
In later days, evidence against people includes more solid voting patterns (cuz you know if certain dead people are town or not) and contradictions made by a player about his role, which lead the town to correctly deduce scum.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
?? I think we're all being quite civil right now....especially compared to the earlier portion of this thread.
*Loran is confused*
Sorry. Misread a post.
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"No, I specifically heard denim. Looks like so crafty ghost is trying to break our code" -Bravo 3 "I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
You do know about mafiascum.net right? Or are you just trying to appear clueless for the sake of looking innocent?
I've never heard of mafiascum.net, but, I imagine that I'll read it now. And no, I would never, ever act like I didn't know something that I actually did know, just to look innocent. I have too much pride for that.
I don't really understand what the term 'scum' means. Is that what the mafia are?
Because Tuatha is brand new to the game, it stands to reason that she is not playing a certain character, she is just..being herself. I find the theory that randomly changing your vote alot etc. automatically make you 'scum' to be lacking...most of the people in here have changed their votes at least once already, and the FOS has been pointed at 1/2 of us already. Just because Tuatha acts a certain way doesn't necessarily make her a mafia, it just makes her new to the game. If anything, it is LESS likely that she's playing to a specific mafia/townie role....because she has no way of really knowing what those roles are, nor how to act them out.
I think that Loran16 is the one to look at here. He realized that Tuatha is new to mafia, and is taking advantage of her inexperience in Mafia to make her look like a bad guy, which we really have no way of knowing whether or not she is. It's very clever, and also, very shady.
I don't really understand what the term 'scum' means. Is that what the mafia are?
Because Tuatha is brand new to the game, it stands to reason that she is not playing a certain character, she is just..being herself. I find the theory that randomly changing your vote alot etc. automatically make you 'scum' to be lacking...most of the people in here have changed their votes at least once already, and the FOS has been pointed at 1/2 of us already. Just because Tuatha acts a certain way doesn't necessarily make her a mafia, it just makes her new to the game. If anything, it is LESS likely that she's playing to a specific mafia/townie role....because she has no way of really knowing what those roles are, nor how to act them out.
I think that Loran16 is the one to look at here. He realized that Tuatha is new to mafia, and is taking advantage of her inexperience in Mafia to make her look like a bad guy, which we really have no way of knowing whether or not she is. It's very clever, and also, very shady.
FOS Loran16
You seem to be missing the point Cyan. These are natural tells, given off mainly by a newb scum player. You dont have to know the game to exude them, they're part of human nature. Which is why i think that these are genuine scum tells by Tuatha, and why i think she is scum.
And if i wanted to take advantage of newbiness, there are others like yourself who show far more newbiness than Tuatha :rolleyes:.
That said, I extremely dislike all the FOSes going on here. If you think someone is scum here, plz vote unless they're close to lynching (in which case, FOS them until they claim their role so that you dont by accident lynch a power role (AKA Cop/Doc)). Considering Kijin is not tracking FOSes like SG did last newb game, its kind of hard to do so for those of us using these things for analysis.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Considering Kijin is not tracking FOSes like SG did last newb game, its kind of hard to do so for those of us using these things for analysis.
If you'd like me to start tracking FOS's, I'll do so. Because fos's are generally irrelevant (as you pointed out), I've just been keeping daily updates on votes.
If most of you find that having a FOS count doesn't really do anything, I'll still be happy to provide a FOS count by having you post a bold:
FOS: Count
in a post.
Edit:
I have compiled a FOS list. This includes ALL bolded FOSes... Lord rahl, I ask that you please not type in all bold text in the future as, without the seperation you made, it'll be impossible for me to find serious fos's and votes.
FOS List: (note: like VOTEs, please BOLD FOS's, this includes those you are FOSing)
Kokusho - Tuatha
loran16 - kops, Lord rahl, Cyan
Tuatha - Lord rahl
I'm convinced by Loran's points on Kokushu that I no longer suspect him (unFOS, ah well the original wasn't bolded anyway).
However, what's wrong with FOSing? I consider FOSes a useful tool for noting suspicious actions, without accusing someone of being mafia. My vote, at least, is reserved for convincing evidence or arguments.
FOS Loran for attacking FOSes. We need them as a tool for casting light on suspicious actions. I would at least want more of an explanation of why a vote is better than a FOS if FOSes are being tracked. It would seem a scum tactic to vote and encourage voting instead of FOSing, as vote bandwagons are what counts in this game.
Taking someone close to lynch on suspicions (what a FOS would be used for) isn't the best idea as it is easier for the mafia to control the lynch.
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<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|It is Night 0. Night ends in 180 s (or when all choices are in). Submit actions to fadeblue
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
FOS Loran for attacking FOSes. We need them as a tool for casting light on suspicious actions. I would at least want more of an explanation of why a vote is better than a FOS if FOSes are being tracked. It would seem a scum tactic to vote and encourage voting instead of FOSing, as vote bandwagons are what counts in this game.
I've never been a fan of FOS. In my mind it lets scum slide onto a bandwagon too easily without having to really account for their actions.
I tend not to point yeah old finger at all, and instead let my vote express my suspicion.
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Straddling the thin line between genius and insanity.
You seem to be missing the point Cyan. These are natural tells, given off mainly by a newb scum player. You dont have to know the game to exude them, they're part of human nature. Which is why i think that these are genuine scum tells by Tuatha, and why i think she is scum.
No. You missed my point. For one thing, still, no one has explained what 'scum' is. I can only assume that scum=mafia. I asked for clarification on this, it hasn't been given. If this is the case, the fact that she acts a certain way would have nothing to do with whether or not she is 'scum', because how she is acting now is simply Tuatha being herself. To say that she must be mafia because she is new and acts suspicious is flatly ridiculous. If she were new, she would not act any different regardless of whether she were mafia or a townie. If scum doesn't mean mafia, then, I guess this is all irrelevant...but it would be nice to know what exactly it means.
And if i wanted to take advantage of newbiness, there are others like yourself who show far more newbiness than Tuatha :rolleyes:.
Wow, nothing like personally attacking someone to make a game exciting, right.
That said, I extremely dislike all the FOSes going on here. If you think someone is scum here, plz vote unless they're close to lynching (in which case, FOS them until they claim their role so that you dont by accident lynch a power role (AKA Cop/Doc)). Considering Kijin is not tracking FOSes like SG did last newb game, its kind of hard to do so for those of us using these things for analysis.
It's amazing how much you constantly express your dislike for everything and seem to think that you should decide how everything is being run. To me, that seems more like a mafia action than a town action. And you're right, FOSing someone really doesn't accomplish alot. So. Unvote..Vote Loran16
And when did i personally attack you? I said you're a newb. We're in a newb game. *Confused*
Whatever, i gotta go, March Madness beckons.
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Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
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-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
I'm sicking with my vote though, I don't want to just randomly change it on a whim.
(What? Stop staring. Yes I did it once, but that was spite. He voted for me.)
EBWODP(Sorry, FadeBlue, I forgot to put this.): I will, however, FOS Kokusho for his habit of rapidly changing his vote.
So ill post in a bit.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
"I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
"I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
But as you can see in Douglas Adams or Romance mafia, there is always the chance, a pretty good on eactually, that from voting patterns and what not the town can find scum on day 1.
So thats what we're trying to do. Of course right now we just finished the random vote stage of the game, so we really dont have too much information (but we do have some...)
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Yeas, there is.
Basically the first day is rather slow since there's very little information to work with (barring a cop randomly ID'ing scum - which won't happen here since there were no night one actions). After we actually lynch someone (and day one is going to be a very random lynch), we can look at reactions, and see if there are any patterns or clues that might lead us to the scum during future days.
Also, I apologize to the thread in general. I wasn't intentionally trying to cause problems, I was just asking questions. My wording could have been better. Kijin, Vecna and I have taken the discussion offstage and I think we're cool now.
Now before yall start doing setup speculation....(something i do way tooo much),
Consider this:
Newb mafia games are mini games, and pretty much always have a total of 3 mafia in them (25%). Mafia generally are vanilla in newb games, but the last 2 have featured mafia roleblockers and "mafia godfathers" are NOT used here in Newb games (or at least Vecna DOESNT want them to be, and this game was approved by Vecna).
Townies in Newb games have a sane Cop, and a doc, and either 1-3 other roles depending on the mod. The rest of the players are vanilla.
Now considering our theme. Given that there are 3 mafia, and 2 moonenites and 2 plutonites, not to mention the fact that they fight each other in spacecataz segments, indicates that the two groups most likely are not scum together (one group may be scum). Furthermore, almost every no ATHF character in the show, at some episode or another, wants to kill the ATHF. Even CARL, the sole main character who wasnt "NK"ed in the games beginning, has reasons to want to kill the ATHF.
As such, its rather useless for us to be speculating on what characters/minor characters are scum right now, as this show is SOOO Random (So random that im not a fan, despite liking most adult swim shows) that guessing without finding a scum first (to see what type of character is scum) would be pointless.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Hooga-votes Kops
Rahl –Votes Hooga
Kokusho-Votes Diggy
KCW-Votes Kokusho
Athos-Votes himself (random.org)
Diggy-Votese Lord Rahl
Cyan-Votes Hooga (2 on hooga)
Mosschop-Votes Cyan
Tuatha-Votes Hooga (3 on hooga, stating why not run with the flock)
Mosschop-Revotes Tuatha
Tuatha-Revote Mosschop (OMGUS)
Cyan-Revote Mosschop (OMGUS, 2 on mosschop)
KCW-Revote Cyan
Kops-Vote Cyan (2 on Cyan)
Hooga-Unvote
Lord rahl-Votes himself
Deliv/me-votes KCW???(Editted post)
Kops-Vote Deliv due to edit
Diggy-Unvote
Kok-Unvote, Vote Deliv
Diggy-Vote the mod.
Kok-Unvote-Vote Diggy
(For those who are newbs..., OMGUS means Oh my god you suck, which essentially is a vote out of spite against a person for voting you. Generally, its a newb scum trait.)
Other notable things (but not necessarily scum tells):
KCW has been pointing out bandwagoning/being flipfloppy and has been pointing suspicion at them
After KCW points out Kok's flip-floppy voting and Hooga FOSES him, Tuatha quickly follows with a FOS of Kokusho citing KCW's EXACT reasons.
---------------------------------------------------------
So what can we say about this? Cyan might be suspect, but his question about strategy makes me think that he's town or just really really newbish (in mafia, not on the boards Cyan :-P), and KCW's no noob.
But Tuatha shows strong signs of scum tells, from bandwagoning on Hooga (stating bandwagoning for her(his?) reason!), then the OMGUS vote on mosschop in response, and then finally FOSing Kokusho when it seems like its the current trend. She seems to be doing whatever it takes to encourage the town to lynch another player.
Tuatha is for sure right now our biggest lead.
UNVOTE, VOTE TUATHA.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
EBWODP{Yet again, I'm so sorry. This will be the last time, I swear.}
You're a horrible person. I fail to see what's so suspicious about voting out of spite when there's no information to go on.
An OMGUS vote is a scum tell because it attempts to convince others not to vote for you (or to unvote) by threatening to add a vote to that person (in this case mosschop). As such, its an attempt to intimidate a person so that they will unvote you.
And "Im not a horrible Person". Im pointing out that you have made scum tells, and that as far as i can see , you are currently our biggest lead. (Welcome to mafia )
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
ROFL, do ya think im Blue soul in Newb 6 Kops?
That said, voting behavior during the random vote period is surprisingly less random, and Tuatha's tendency to either bandwagon or throw OMGUS votes around is clearly NOT random. So in this case, we can use them for analyzing.
(rather interesting that YOU of all people are Fosing me for analyzing and trying to get us moving, when it was u who had a conniption about day 1 going too slowly last mafia game lol).
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
"I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
(Well, i guess I sort of have, actually. In Nova Scotia, a group of people did something similar, but live-action or in-person or whatever term you use)
Human nature Tuatha, and scummy nature at that. The scum in this game want to encourage townies to lynch other townies, as it means that the next day 2 townies will be down (not to mention it prolongs their survivability). Thats basic survival nature right there. Nonexperience doesnt make it less random, (in fact experience might make it MORE random as experienced scum would know better than to do this).
Which is why i think you're scum. Your behavior is very similar to Keeper's in Newb 6, just with a smaller sample size. Still, its the best to go on, and thus why im voting for you as our best lead.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
That seems just a tiny bit unlikely, in my opinion.
Who said subconscious? You've been following the crowd's votes and Foses, and your one vote that wasnt doing this was an OMGUS vote. You dont need to play mafia to understand why this is very scum-like.
And since your questions are seemingly burying my vote ill UNVOTE, VOTE Tuatha for emphasis.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Why is it unlikely?
Well, if people didn't have tendencies when playing different roles, we wouldn't have much of a game would we?
He's not talking about strange urges. He's talking about natural human reactions to stress situations where you have a hidden agenda. In poker it would be called a tell.
You've given some very natural scum tells that are common to new players in this game.
I'm not quite ready to vote for you, but I think there's an excellent chance I will once I've re-read.
This is what you're missing here. They're common tells based off of human nature. That's why they're so damning. Almost anyone who is unaware of their existence falls into the trap of using them.
Well, we know the new player's tendency when mafia to bandwagon and hop around from person to person (see also: Machin Shin in Douglas Adams mafia), and you're fitting into that. Are you saying that you don't follow the normal pattern?
Tuatha for the obvious reasons, along with Loran for being SO horribly helpful... a plan that has worked for many scum in more advanced games then this, and a strategy that could go a long way in a game where the players are less accustomed to having to work around strategies then that...
FOS Tuatha, FOS Loran16
Either one could garner my vote depending on the actions that we have...
Hah, Hilarious. You should read Newb 6, where despite not being the game i did a post game tip session for the players, and i critiziced one scum for being too helpful.
But meh, its a good idea anyhow in newb games (and other games) to make a note of who's trying to be helpful. Generally Id think such people would make better investigation targets tho, so that the town can make sure they arent leading the town astray, without lynching a possible vet trying to help a bunch of newbs. Thats basically why Azreal, Puzzle, and Axelrod get investigated in basically every game here.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
"I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
?? I think we're all being quite civil right now....especially compared to the earlier portion of this thread.
*Loran is confused*
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I see one bandwagon on Tuatha's part (on Hooga (me)), then I see the OMGUS. What I don't see is how the FOS is bandwagoning - Koko was acting suspicious, enough to merit a FOS from me. So I would say insufficient evidence for now and IMO not enough to merit a FOS on Tuatha from me.
I definitely think that Loran's helpfulness merits further investigation. Loran, you're jumping on the evidence we have, which is good, but you're inflating it somewhat out of proportion.
@ Koko, in my opinion I don't think "flip flopping" was what you were doing there, as you only changed your vote among 2 people (Diggy <--> Deliverance). However, I FOSed you not for "flip flopping" but for continuing to pursure Diggy even after you unvoted Deliverance. There was absolutely no reason to return to a random vote. IMO that is suspicious.
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
Meh, in my mind the FOSwagon on Kokusho is pretty much similar to a bandwagon. Its essentially forcing more suspcion onto a person townies already have suspcion on, especially basically saying in the same exact words KCW's explanation.
As for Kokusho's revoting , meh. IDK, i tend to think the whole deliverance fiasco screwed things up a lil, so its hard to tell, Kok couldve just thought w/o Deliv's shenanigans we'd go back to random voting, and going back to the random vote is more or less the same as rerandom voting.
There is pretty much ZERO chance that Kokusho's vote diggy for no reason wouldve led to a lynch on diggy and it certainly wasnt bandwagoning, which is why i SERIOUSLY doubt its a scum tell (he may yet be scum, he hasnt actually said anything on topic recently, only "calm down guys" when we were all calm, which is actually a bit weird imo).
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Essentially. You see from someon doing analysis, people make up conclusions about who is scum/mafia, and who is just a townie.
So my analysis and Tuatha's response have put both me and Tuatha as the center of the town's suspicion, and Kok's actions have led Hooga to suspect him.
In later days, evidence against people includes more solid voting patterns (cuz you know if certain dead people are town or not) and contradictions made by a player about his role, which lead the town to correctly deduce scum.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Sorry. Misread a post.
"I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
Lord rahl (1) - Lord rahl
Cyan (1) - KCW
Mosschop (2) - Cyan, Tuatha
Tuatha (2) - Mosschop, loran16
Athos (1) - Athos
Diggy (1) - Diggy
With 11 in, a majority vote requires 6 to lynch!
4 players are currently not voting!
Next expected update: 3/17 12am
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You do know about mafiascum.net right? Or are you just trying to appear clueless for the sake of looking innocent?
When has it ever gotten anyone anything besides losing the ability to vote for the day?
I've never heard of mafiascum.net, but, I imagine that I'll read it now. And no, I would never, ever act like I didn't know something that I actually did know, just to look innocent. I have too much pride for that.
if you have the patience, go read Sin City... that game brok some serious ground
Because Tuatha is brand new to the game, it stands to reason that she is not playing a certain character, she is just..being herself. I find the theory that randomly changing your vote alot etc. automatically make you 'scum' to be lacking...most of the people in here have changed their votes at least once already, and the FOS has been pointed at 1/2 of us already. Just because Tuatha acts a certain way doesn't necessarily make her a mafia, it just makes her new to the game. If anything, it is LESS likely that she's playing to a specific mafia/townie role....because she has no way of really knowing what those roles are, nor how to act them out.
I think that Loran16 is the one to look at here. He realized that Tuatha is new to mafia, and is taking advantage of her inexperience in Mafia to make her look like a bad guy, which we really have no way of knowing whether or not she is. It's very clever, and also, very shady.
FOS Loran16
You seem to be missing the point Cyan. These are natural tells, given off mainly by a newb scum player. You dont have to know the game to exude them, they're part of human nature. Which is why i think that these are genuine scum tells by Tuatha, and why i think she is scum.
And if i wanted to take advantage of newbiness, there are others like yourself who show far more newbiness than Tuatha :rolleyes:.
That said, I extremely dislike all the FOSes going on here. If you think someone is scum here, plz vote unless they're close to lynching (in which case, FOS them until they claim their role so that you dont by accident lynch a power role (AKA Cop/Doc)). Considering Kijin is not tracking FOSes like SG did last newb game, its kind of hard to do so for those of us using these things for analysis.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
If you'd like me to start tracking FOS's, I'll do so. Because fos's are generally irrelevant (as you pointed out), I've just been keeping daily updates on votes.
If most of you find that having a FOS count doesn't really do anything, I'll still be happy to provide a FOS count by having you post a bold:
FOS: Count
in a post.
Edit:
I have compiled a FOS list. This includes ALL bolded FOSes... Lord rahl, I ask that you please not type in all bold text in the future as, without the seperation you made, it'll be impossible for me to find serious fos's and votes.
FOS List: (note: like VOTEs, please BOLD FOS's, this includes those you are FOSing)
Kokusho - Tuatha
loran16 - kops, Lord rahl, Cyan
Tuatha - Lord rahl
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However, what's wrong with FOSing? I consider FOSes a useful tool for noting suspicious actions, without accusing someone of being mafia. My vote, at least, is reserved for convincing evidence or arguments.
FOS Loran for attacking FOSes. We need them as a tool for casting light on suspicious actions. I would at least want more of an explanation of why a vote is better than a FOS if FOSes are being tracked. It would seem a scum tactic to vote and encourage voting instead of FOSing, as vote bandwagons are what counts in this game.
Taking someone close to lynch on suspicions (what a FOS would be used for) isn't the best idea as it is easier for the mafia to control the lynch.
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
I've never been a fan of FOS. In my mind it lets scum slide onto a bandwagon too easily without having to really account for their actions.
I tend not to point yeah old finger at all, and instead let my vote express my suspicion.
No. You missed my point. For one thing, still, no one has explained what 'scum' is. I can only assume that scum=mafia. I asked for clarification on this, it hasn't been given. If this is the case, the fact that she acts a certain way would have nothing to do with whether or not she is 'scum', because how she is acting now is simply Tuatha being herself. To say that she must be mafia because she is new and acts suspicious is flatly ridiculous. If she were new, she would not act any different regardless of whether she were mafia or a townie. If scum doesn't mean mafia, then, I guess this is all irrelevant...but it would be nice to know what exactly it means.
Wow, nothing like personally attacking someone to make a game exciting, right.
It's amazing how much you constantly express your dislike for everything and seem to think that you should decide how everything is being run. To me, that seems more like a mafia action than a town action. And you're right, FOSing someone really doesn't accomplish alot. So. Unvote..Vote Loran16
And when did i personally attack you? I said you're a newb. We're in a newb game. *Confused*
Whatever, i gotta go, March Madness beckons.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity