I don't see much wrong with ikerr. But I do not like cc right now. He is just being annoying about his voting, so I guess I will Fos: CropCircles.Something seems wrong with his posting so I will leave it at that.
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
Can anyone voting/fosing chamber and to a lesser extent ikker please explain their thoughts (rhino, CC, puzzle, jobie, maybe others)?
I would think of these guys as some of the least scummy people here, and I am a little confused about why people are voting them. I was particularly offput by CC hopping on puzzle's bandwaggon while blindly relying on puzzles vision.
Ikerr kinda threw me up into the air as a target and hoped someone would shoot me down in turn. I still don't think that I'm all that scummy for asking that/getting us serious (like we are now).
FOS: Chamber why? because he's been defensive from the start. FOS: CC a random vote, even on MoT is semi-scummy (after the joke stage that is).
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Pffft. Axel always draws as much attention to himself as possible when he gets a power role. It's his trademark. He enjoys being violated that way.
Don't ask me how I know that.
Yikes!
How about you don't tell and I won't ask.
Quote from Jobie »
I've already stated, I was trying to move us away from the joking mood and into a serious analytical mood. I did it in the least dangerous way. (well ok the lesst dangerous way would have been: "Guys can we get serious now?") But it really isn't that big of a deal.
I'll join Puzzle here and say: VOTE: ikerr. I'll help a guy out, 'cause I assume you have an idea what you're doing (note: I hope to God this isn't 8-bit all over and will Unvote the second this is even the slighest bit like it.)
Hmmm, so you try to move the game to a more analytical mood and when a player meerly FOS's you based on fairly sound reasoning you immediately omgus vote for him.
I will vote: Jobie pending your response.
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Ikerr kinda threw me up into the air as a target and hoped someone would shoot me down in turn. I still don't think that I'm all that scummy for asking that/getting us serious (like we are now).
FOS: Chamber why? because he's been defensive from the start. FOS: CC a random vote, even on MoT is semi-scummy (after the joke stage that is).
I feel my defense has been more of my ideas then myself. This is because, like most men my age I have an ego that’s too large and think my self infallible.
This has been fun to read. Not very serious and niot much done, but fnny. If anything I think CorpCircles is being the most scummy. But any scum would realize that and not act as he is. Therefore I want to believe he has some limitation which makes him only psot so much? Maybe? Yes? No? He has said so few words that something must be up.
Hmmm, so you try to move the game to a more analytical mood and when a player meerly FOS's you based on fairly sound reasoning you immediately omgus vote for him.
I will vote: Jobie pending your response.
Umm...I just stated why I voted for Ikerr right in that quoted portion. He jumped on me for getting serious. Period. It isn't a "hey I think you're scum vote" it's a "Why the heck are you even thinking of FOS me for that?" PLUS, I'm joining Puzzle in his pseudo-wagon on him...I'm going to leave my vote on Ikerr because Puzzle has to have some reasoning behind this. UnFOS: Chamber Alrighty, if you say so.
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Umm...I just stated why I voted for Ikerr right in that quoted portion. He jumped on me for getting serious. Period. It isn't a "hey I think you're scum vote" it's a "Why the heck are you even thinking of FOS me for that?" PLUS, I'm joining Puzzle in his pseudo-wagon on him...I'm going to leave my vote on Ikerr because Puzzle has to have some reasoning behind this. UnFOS: Chamber Alrighty, if you say so.
here is the post Ikerr made. I don't see where he jumped on you for getting serious.
Quote from ikerr »
I want to know what I did too.
@Puzzle: You can wonder about me if you want, I have nothing to hide. I would just rather see your reasons for it. It could help my play for future games, if I know what I'm doing wrong.
Personnally, I would be more interested in going after Jobie. Early he seemed to be fishing for info, then continued to ask about people's roles when this was pointed out. He also managed to push himself into the background shortly after by quickly relenting to Chamber.
I know its not much, and certainly not voteworthy, but I'm not seeing any better leads at this point. So, I'll just end with a FoS Jobie.
He makes four minor points that on their own don't warrant a great deal of suspicion but when viewed together would warrant a second look and gave you an FOS. Looking at some of the other votes that have been made, this FOS seems at least to be based on more the just a lark.
He doesn't say anything about your wanting to have the discussion get more serious being one of the reasons he was suspicious of you.
You then, very quicky met his FOS and raised it by voting for him, which looked just like a omgus vote, but you are saying your vote is based on something that appears not to have happened.
I think I will leave my vote where it is for now.
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Umm...I just stated why I voted for Ikerr right in that quoted portion. He jumped on me for getting serious. Period. It isn't a "hey I think you're scum vote" it's a "Why the heck are you even thinking of FOS me for that?" PLUS, I'm joining Puzzle in his pseudo-wagon on him...I'm going to leave my vote on Ikerr because Puzzle has to have some reasoning behind this.
emphasis added
Does anyone else find this a little scary? Maybe instead of blindly following puzzle on a wagon of someone who is almost assuredly not mafia (although possible scum of some other sort) we should instead do things that have actual reasoning behind them instead of just implied reasoning. While I admit that Puzzle is very clever and frequently does crazy things as a townie that work for the good of the town, we should be very wary about blindly following him (*cough* *cough* shaman *cough*)
My vote on MoT was not baseless or random. I just gave no explination for it, and when he asked for one, I denied it.
My vote on Ikerr is pure wagon. Puzzle seems to be on to something, and I figure there's a 75% chance he's town, so there's good reason to follow him. If nothing comes of this, I'll move my vote, and I have no intention to lynch.
@sgdre: We're not following Puzzle on a mass claim here, just a little wagon. Nothing rash has been done here, and some kind of action needs to be taken for the game to continue forward.
I still think that "He;'s MoT" is a prefectly valid reason, if the voter played in 8-bit.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Umm...I just stated why I voted for Ikerr right in that quoted portion. He jumped on me for getting serious. Period. It isn't a "hey I think you're scum vote" it's a "Why the heck are you even thinking of FOS me for that?" PLUS, I'm joining Puzzle in his pseudo-wagon on him...I'm going to leave my vote on Ikerr because Puzzle has to have some reasoning behind this. UnFOS: Chamber Alrighty, if you say so.
I didn't 'jump' on you for getting serious. I merely pointed out some things that I felt were suspicious that seemed to have gone unnoticed by the rest of the town, and wanted to bring them to attention to hopefully show that I am a productive townie. IMO, you have been extremely defensive over what was really a minor point against and was unlikely to result in anything by itself. I'm not quite ready to vote for you, but the FoS is getting more solid.
@sgdre: I find that a little scary too, and not just because I am the focus of Puzzle's wagon. People seem too willing to join with him and expect he will guide them to scum. It is also worrysome that some of our better analysts haven't been very active to try and give us something other than Puzzle's random wagon.
@sgdre: We're not following Puzzle on a mass claim here, just a little wagon. Nothing rash has been done here, and some kind of action needs to be taken for the game to continue forward.
What do you hope to gain by the wagon? I think that there are much better leads that we could be following now (You voting all helter-skelter, puzzle being puzzling, etc.) than one based purely on blind faith. It doesnt make sense to put Ikker in a situation where he has to claim unless there is some reason behind it.
I just want to add that I am not ruling out the possibility of Ikker being scum or neutral (this seems most likely if he is non-town) or even mafia for that matter. I am just suggesting that the chance of him being scum are significantly lower than anyone elses.
BTW, I have had no school or anything (besides playing MTG from 6pm to 2pm.... yeah, I'm crazy) for the past 2 days and still can't keep up. Good job on posting!
Note: Vote counts posted past 12:30 pm EST are liable to have mistakes. Sleep = combo.
Well cc does have a point in that this wagon is generating alot of discussion. I don't know if that is what puzzle or other people on the wagon feel but I think that the disscussion does help us out a lot and a lot of people are posting so the wagon is not that bad right now.
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
I just want to add that I am not ruling out the possibility of Ikker being scum or neutral (this seems most likely if he is non-town) or even mafia for that matter. I am just suggesting that the chance of him being scum are significantly lower than anyone elses.
One of the things that I can easily anticipate being a problem this game is Puzzle.
Puzzle is almost unfair to the town, especially after Shaman Mafia, because no matter whether he is town OR mafia, he's still going to be a lightning rod. Any theories he has we will be the object of intense discussion, followed blindly by some, disputed almost dogmatically by others. Puzzle by his very presence warps the game around himself.
Not good.
In other news: I'm not feeling any of the wagons right now; at this stage in the game there's really no reason for anyone to be townie.
Soon somebody will suggest false claiming, which is a better idea than normal in this game because of the name weirdness that might be going on. However, its still probably to early for that.
One of the things that I can easily anticipate being a problem this game is Puzzle.
Puzzle is almost unfair to the town, especially after Shaman Mafia, because no matter whether he is town OR mafia, he's still going to be a lightning rod. Any theories he has we will be the object of intense discussion, followed blindly by some, disputed almost dogmatically by others. Puzzle by his very presence warps the game around himself.
Not good.
In other news: I'm not feeling any of the wagons right now; at this stage in the game there's really no reason for anyone to be townie.
Soon somebody will suggest false claiming, which is a better idea than normal in this game because of the name weirdness that might be going on. However, its still probably to early for that.
No clue where to go from here.
Keep talking.
Intense debate and lightning rod status is a common characteristic among most talkative analysts, actually. I don't think it's fair to single him out and call him a potential problem for the town: most analysts naturally favor the town by provoking discussion, and townie analysts do far more good than harm.
Intense debate and lightning rod status is a common characteristic among most talkative analysts, actually. I don't think it's fair to single him out and call him a potential problem for the town: most analysts naturally favor the town by provoking discussion, and townie analysts do far more good than harm.
From what I see, the effect as he has it is magnified. Of course, this might just be because he's usually the only one of the "Good Players" to usually make it through most of the game in my experience.
From what I see, the effect as he has it is magnified. Of course, this might just be because he's usually the only one of the "Good Players" to usually make it through most of the game in my experience.
I think the reason for this is that his "cunning plans" sometimes fall into the "WTF?" area. *remembers Dominaria mafia*
Regardless, he will only be a burden to the town if he is not town himself. People who are hurtful to the town are those who lurk or don't post in a coherent manner.
People who are hurtful to the town are those who lurk or don't post in a coherent manner.
There's no information to use to actually post anything in a coherent matter. As for Puzzle, his cunning plans are generally good enough, and he sees more than you think, especially considering how much information he gave in 8-bit. I think he's generally trustworthy, except for the fact that he's skilled enough to lie efficiently. But for now, he's not a major threat.
Puzzle is almost unfair to the town, especially after Shaman Mafia, because no matter whether he is town OR mafia, he's still going to be a lightning rod. Any theories he has we will be the object of intense discussion, followed blindly by some, disputed almost dogmatically by others. Puzzle by his very presence warps the game around himself.
The intense scrutiny that his "cunning Plans" are subjected to, by his being one of the more active analysts, is no different then what happens to several other players. In fact, imo, he gets more critical scrutiny the some. That alone should be enough to balance any warping effect on the discussion.
Sometimes, like now, even the theories he doesn't post generate blind followers and discussion. It's an interesting effect. When he starts handing out koolade I'll really worry about it.
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Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
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So I can see 2 possibilities for what's going on with Puzzle's Ikerr vote (well, 3 actually-the third one being that he's simply mafia trying to screw with us). Neither on them, in my opinion, is a good reason to vote. To the people following, please remember: Blind Faith in Puzzle = Bad.
Quote from sgdre »
I just want to add that I am not ruling out the possibility of Ikker being scum or neutral (this seems most likely if he is non-town) or even mafia for that matter. I am just suggesting that the chance of him being scum are significantly lower than anyone elses.
Quote from Azrael »
On what basis?
It was suggested that because Ikerr was a late addition to the game (Armlx missed his sign up post and "added" him in as the 21st player after other roles went out) he probably wasn't mafia.
Right now, I'm more interested in CropCircles "non-random, non-explained" vote on MoT. That's one of those things that makes you raise your eyebrow. And yet, he abandoned the vote fairly quickly to follow Puzzle.
I also think Chamber was a bit too quick to propose his "theory of town role scumminess". Putting aside the validity of the theory for the moment (I'm not rendering an opinion one way or the other), can you see that there was no benefit to the town in stating it? That's the kind of theory you formulate, and then hold in reserve until someone claims and their claim is "non-scummy." You might then propose it to see if the claim stands up to it.
I recognize that from Azrael's comments (and my own) an intelligent mafia might have suspected something strange was going on, but I doubt they would have been as confident about claiming a scummy sounding role as they are now, with at least three other people "confirming" it.
On the other hand, you could have been trying to lay the groundwork for your own "scummy" claim, while at the same time casting the net to see if any more townies would jump into it (making your claim even safer by default, as well as the claims of other mafia). Or, if the mafia had "non-scummy" names, it might have been a warning to them as well.
That's just an idle theory too at this point. More thoughts later.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ok. Mod steps in to clear something up (or make things worse).
I roled die to assign roles. I have the roles on a list and roll a D20 to match them with names in order on the signup sheet. When I gave ikerr a new role, I rolled a D20 against a normalish set up (somewhere around 25% scum, 65% town, 10% other, these are probably off a little) and made up a role based on the roll (hey, role = roll). There is as much a chance of him being town/mafia/other as any one else.
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I still do not have much to say. I do not think it wise to blindly folow Puzzle espically until he posts again and I also do not think it wise to assume that Ikerr is not mafia. This is random mafia and I would not put anything past armlx. How are we to know that he did not plan to make that "mistake" to make us think that Ikerr was not scum and then go back and make him an SK or mafia role? Like I say it is random, you never know.
CropCircles really does bother me. That vote, then saying he has his reasons, then changing his vote. If your reasons are best kept from the town say so. Otherwise I believe it is best you tell us your reasons or you are screwing Day 1 up. Thank you.
I think Fayul explained it best. It's MoT. His "disclaimer" annoys me and I don't like him hiding behind it, so as long as I don't have a better target for my vote, I feel perfectly fine with it on him.
As of right now, however, I'm lending my support to Puzzle. I'm perfectly fine waiting a little longer to see where this takes us.
I think Fayul explained it best. It's MoT. His "disclaimer" annoys me and I don't like him hiding behind it, so as long as I don't have a better target for my vote, I feel perfectly fine with it on him.
The disclaimer itself isn't scummy until he chooses to hide behind it as an excuse for bad play.
I Plan not to use the Disclamer, to hide bad plat. It was plan to use to help explan radomness and incomplete thoughts. that i might have.
Right, which is basically the same thing as poor play, for townies.
I'm defending you for the moment though, up until you start posting those incomplete thoughts, or lurking. Suspicion of someone behaving suspiciously in the future isn't a very convincing justification for a vote.
I'd like to make an announcement...if y'all don't mind a serious note for a second. :tongue2:
Turns out I've got mono, so I won't be as active as the rest of you. Lots of sleeping and all that. I'm feeling a bit better today, so after some lunch and maybe a nap, I'm gonna go back and read pages to catch myself up.
So for all you who're wondering "Where'd Leilani go?", that's where I went.
In conclusion, I'm not voting yet 'cause I've got like..10 pages of stuff to read, and I'll continue to play, but I won't be as active as I would otherwise.
Take care, and you'll hear from me soon!
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Well, becuase |of| the random nature of this game, there is no way to be sure about the number of pro-town and anti-town rolls. The normal game setup would entail about 5 mafia members, but I'm sure there are some crazy twists like in Random 1. Doe's anyone think we could have another cult on our hands?
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This is random mafia: we officially have no chance in hell on figuring out what the hell the setup is.
That said, 5 mafia, an SK, and one "other" seems fair enough, with a few more win conditions on the side: (see: snape)
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
I also think Chamber was a bit too quick to propose his "theory of town role scumminess". Putting aside the validity of the theory for the moment (I'm not rendering an opinion one way or the other), can you see that there was no benefit to the town in stating it? That's the kind of theory you formulate, and then hold in reserve until someone claims and their claim is "non-scummy." You might then propose it to see if the claim stands up to it.
I recognize that from Azrael's comments (and my own) an intelligent mafia might have suspected something strange was going on, but I doubt they would have been as confident about claiming a scummy sounding role as they are now, with at least three other people "confirming" it.
On the other hand, you could have been trying to lay the groundwork for your own "scummy" claim, while at the same time casting the net to see if any more townies would jump into it (making your claim even safer by default, as well as the claims of other mafia). Or, if the mafia had "non-scummy" names, it might have been a warning to them as well.
That's just an idle theory too at this point. More thoughts later.
I realize now coming out with it wasn’t too smart. The only other game I had played in before this, I was a cult leader. In that game I developed a play style that put me first. Having put the theory out in the open makes it easier for me to make my claim later. When I posted my theory I had self-preservation in mind, and didn’t think of the town as a whole as I should have.
With only one townie dead, we can't be sure of anything other then the mafia. It is entirely possible that there is a SK, a cult, or even Werewolves, but there's no reason to believe that given what we know. I'd say a SK would be most likely.
Well, becuase |of| the random nature of this game, there is no way to be sure about the number of pro-town and anti-town rolls. The normal game setup would entail about 5 mafia members, but I'm sure there are some crazy twists like in Random 1. Doe's anyone think we could have another cult on our hands?
Could we have another cult on our hands? (shudders)
That's a good question.
I hope not and doubt it to some degree.
Armlx must have had his game designed or well under the way to being done before Random Mafia I was over, possibly even before it began. It is highly likely that he looked over Random Mafia I for possible design ideas but it seems to me that a cult is a major design element and it would be difficult to just add one to an already existing design and not have it throw off the balance that had already been established.
So unless he had the idea to use a cult in his game at the beginning, I'd say that it is unlikely that he added it.
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W – 33, L – 19, Broke Games - 9
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
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Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
And I think he'd want to be original. There's no reason to steal that idea.
Anyway, I'll be unavailable for at least 36 hours, and maybe closer to two days, starting soon. I'll churn through the posts as soon as I can.
I also think Chamber was a bit too quick to propose his "theory of town role scumminess". Putting aside the validity of the theory for the moment (I'm not rendering an opinion one way or the other), can you see that there was no benefit to the town in stating it? That's the kind of theory you formulate, and then hold in reserve until someone claims and their claim is "non-scummy." You might then propose it to see if the claim stands up to it.
I recognize that from Azrael's comments (and my own) an intelligent mafia might have suspected something strange was going on, but I doubt they would have been as confident about claiming a scummy sounding role as they are now, with at least three other people "confirming" it.
On the other hand, you could have been trying to lay the groundwork for your own "scummy" claim, while at the same time casting the net to see if any more townies would jump into it (making your claim even safer by default, as well as the claims of other mafia). Or, if the mafia had "non-scummy" names, it might have been a warning to them as well.
That's just an idle theory too at this point. More thoughts later.
While I definately agree that Chamber didn't do the right thing, I think he was in a situation where he legitimately did not know the right thing to do. I know that I thought for a while about whether or not to agree with him before doing what I now think to be the wrong thing (still trying to figure out those times when it is ok for townies to lie). I think the most important thing is that there is no way for chamber to reasonably make the leap from Axel's and Az's comments to his theory without being a scummy sounding towny. I just dont see any plausable way of that happening (barring the mafia having a list of the role names, but that seems unlikely in this setup). Also, if it was just a stab in the dark, being wrong would draw tons of attention to chamber, which I assume a begginer scum would try to avoid.
But I know that sometimes beginners accidentally draw conclusions from other people on the slightest things. He may have legitimately thought it would be met well.
But I know that sometimes beginners accidentally draw conclusions from other people on the slightest things. He may have legitimately thought it would be met well.
I agree that it is possible he thought that.
So I really have little to say. I read the thread last night and had little say. I still do not. Since Puzzle is gone we can not get him to tell us what is up and we also can not put pressure on him to tell us. We can not really talk about the game set-up as it is Random and it might as well be pointless. No one has said anything about there roles and it would be unwise for anyone to say anything about their roles. I no longer have a problem with CropCirles, his explaintion is good enough, and I see nothing wrong with MoT. chamber is a newbie and can be lynched for that. So um....someone do something scummy, please?
Well, I think Chamber has learned from that, so there's no need to chastize him for it. One thing that we all need to remember is that we should be working together, not really going off on our own at too many people. Bandwagons should be used more for getting info out of someone than to lynch them. I'm kind of worried about how Puzzle is using his influence as a good player to get the town going in any one direction this early, but I'm sure he has good intentions.
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Since Puzzle is gone we can not get him to tell us what is up and we also can not put pressure on him to tell us.
I think this answer its. He has not been very open about what he is doing but when is he? If he were active on the site I would be all for pressure votes but seeing as he is not I do not see the point of putting votes on him and then waiting two days. I think it would be ebtter to use today and tommorow for mroe discussion and then on Monday when Puzzle is back ask him to explain. If he will not then we put the votes on him. For now I will go ahead and FOS: Puzzle. I realize the point was votes but...I just will not.
I think this answer its. He has not been very open about what he is doing but when is he? If he were active on the site I would be all for pressure votes but seeing as he is not I do not see the point of putting votes on him and then waiting two days. I think it would be ebtter to use today and tommorow for mroe discussion and then on Monday when Puzzle is back ask him to explain. If he will not then we put the votes on him. For now I will go ahead and FOS: Puzzle. I realize the point was votes but...I just will not.
No, we want to lynch him before he gets back and daykills someone.
So, is being loopy some kind of role-restriction this time around, Az?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I would think of these guys as some of the least scummy people here, and I am a little confused about why people are voting them. I was particularly offput by CC hopping on puzzle's bandwaggon while blindly relying on puzzles vision.
FOS CropCircles
FOS: Chamber why? because he's been defensive from the start.
FOS: CC a random vote, even on MoT is semi-scummy (after the joke stage that is).
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Yikes!
How about you don't tell and I won't ask.
Hmmm, so you try to move the game to a more analytical mood and when a player meerly FOS's you based on fairly sound reasoning you immediately omgus vote for him.
I will vote: Jobie pending your response.
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I feel my defense has been more of my ideas then myself. This is because, like most men my age I have an ego that’s too large and think my self infallible.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Umm...I just stated why I voted for Ikerr right in that quoted portion. He jumped on me for getting serious. Period. It isn't a "hey I think you're scum vote" it's a "Why the heck are you even thinking of FOS me for that?" PLUS, I'm joining Puzzle in his pseudo-wagon on him...I'm going to leave my vote on Ikerr because Puzzle has to have some reasoning behind this. UnFOS: Chamber Alrighty, if you say so.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
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here is the post Ikerr made. I don't see where he jumped on you for getting serious.
He makes four minor points that on their own don't warrant a great deal of suspicion but when viewed together would warrant a second look and gave you an FOS. Looking at some of the other votes that have been made, this FOS seems at least to be based on more the just a lark.
He doesn't say anything about your wanting to have the discussion get more serious being one of the reasons he was suspicious of you.
You then, very quicky met his FOS and raised it by voting for him, which looked just like a omgus vote, but you are saying your vote is based on something that appears not to have happened.
I think I will leave my vote where it is for now.
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emphasis added
Does anyone else find this a little scary? Maybe instead of blindly following puzzle on a wagon of someone who is almost assuredly not mafia (although possible scum of some other sort) we should instead do things that have actual reasoning behind them instead of just implied reasoning. While I admit that Puzzle is very clever and frequently does crazy things as a townie that work for the good of the town, we should be very wary about blindly following him (*cough* *cough* shaman *cough*)
My vote on Ikerr is pure wagon. Puzzle seems to be on to something, and I figure there's a 75% chance he's town, so there's good reason to follow him. If nothing comes of this, I'll move my vote, and I have no intention to lynch.
@sgdre: We're not following Puzzle on a mass claim here, just a little wagon. Nothing rash has been done here, and some kind of action needs to be taken for the game to continue forward.
[The Family]
I didn't 'jump' on you for getting serious. I merely pointed out some things that I felt were suspicious that seemed to have gone unnoticed by the rest of the town, and wanted to bring them to attention to hopefully show that I am a productive townie. IMO, you have been extremely defensive over what was really a minor point against and was unlikely to result in anything by itself. I'm not quite ready to vote for you, but the FoS is getting more solid.
@sgdre: I find that a little scary too, and not just because I am the focus of Puzzle's wagon. People seem too willing to join with him and expect he will guide them to scum. It is also worrysome that some of our better analysts haven't been very active to try and give us something other than Puzzle's random wagon.
Um, you do realize that you could say the exact same thing about anyone in the town at this point?
What do you hope to gain by the wagon? I think that there are much better leads that we could be following now (You voting all helter-skelter, puzzle being puzzling, etc.) than one based purely on blind faith. It doesnt make sense to put Ikker in a situation where he has to claim unless there is some reason behind it.
Ikerr- 3 (Puzzle, Jobie, Cropcircles)
Jobie- 1 (Hawkeye)
Chamber- 1 (Enigma)
Azrael- 1 (Azrael)
Sgdre- 1 (Rhinocero)
BTW, I have had no school or anything (besides playing MTG from 6pm to 2pm.... yeah, I'm crazy) for the past 2 days and still can't keep up. Good job on posting!
Note: Vote counts posted past 12:30 pm EST are liable to have mistakes. Sleep = combo.
Discussion.
[The Family]
On what basis?
Puzzle is almost unfair to the town, especially after Shaman Mafia, because no matter whether he is town OR mafia, he's still going to be a lightning rod. Any theories he has we will be the object of intense discussion, followed blindly by some, disputed almost dogmatically by others. Puzzle by his very presence warps the game around himself.
Not good.
In other news: I'm not feeling any of the wagons right now; at this stage in the game there's really no reason for anyone to be townie.
Soon somebody will suggest false claiming, which is a better idea than normal in this game because of the name weirdness that might be going on. However, its still probably to early for that.
No clue where to go from here.
Keep talking.
Intense debate and lightning rod status is a common characteristic among most talkative analysts, actually. I don't think it's fair to single him out and call him a potential problem for the town: most analysts naturally favor the town by provoking discussion, and townie analysts do far more good than harm.
From what I see, the effect as he has it is magnified. Of course, this might just be because he's usually the only one of the "Good Players" to usually make it through most of the game in my experience.
Regardless, he will only be a burden to the town if he is not town himself. People who are hurtful to the town are those who lurk or don't post in a coherent manner.
[The Family]
There's no information to use to actually post anything in a coherent matter. As for Puzzle, his cunning plans are generally good enough, and he sees more than you think, especially considering how much information he gave in 8-bit. I think he's generally trustworthy, except for the fact that he's skilled enough to lie efficiently. But for now, he's not a major threat.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
The intense scrutiny that his "cunning Plans" are subjected to, by his being one of the more active analysts, is no different then what happens to several other players. In fact, imo, he gets more critical scrutiny the some. That alone should be enough to balance any warping effect on the discussion.
Sometimes, like now, even the theories he doesn't post generate blind followers and discussion. It's an interesting effect. When he starts handing out koolade I'll really worry about it.
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It was suggested that because Ikerr was a late addition to the game (Armlx missed his sign up post and "added" him in as the 21st player after other roles went out) he probably wasn't mafia.
Right now, I'm more interested in CropCircles "non-random, non-explained" vote on MoT. That's one of those things that makes you raise your eyebrow. And yet, he abandoned the vote fairly quickly to follow Puzzle.
I also think Chamber was a bit too quick to propose his "theory of town role scumminess". Putting aside the validity of the theory for the moment (I'm not rendering an opinion one way or the other), can you see that there was no benefit to the town in stating it? That's the kind of theory you formulate, and then hold in reserve until someone claims and their claim is "non-scummy." You might then propose it to see if the claim stands up to it.
I recognize that from Azrael's comments (and my own) an intelligent mafia might have suspected something strange was going on, but I doubt they would have been as confident about claiming a scummy sounding role as they are now, with at least three other people "confirming" it.
On the other hand, you could have been trying to lay the groundwork for your own "scummy" claim, while at the same time casting the net to see if any more townies would jump into it (making your claim even safer by default, as well as the claims of other mafia). Or, if the mafia had "non-scummy" names, it might have been a warning to them as well.
That's just an idle theory too at this point. More thoughts later.
I roled die to assign roles. I have the roles on a list and roll a D20 to match them with names in order on the signup sheet. When I gave ikerr a new role, I rolled a D20 against a normalish set up (somewhere around 25% scum, 65% town, 10% other, these are probably off a little) and made up a role based on the roll (hey, role = roll). There is as much a chance of him being town/mafia/other as any one else.
CropCircles really does bother me. That vote, then saying he has his reasons, then changing his vote. If your reasons are best kept from the town say so. Otherwise I believe it is best you tell us your reasons or you are screwing Day 1 up. Thank you.
I think Fayul explained it best. It's MoT. His "disclaimer" annoys me and I don't like him hiding behind it, so as long as I don't have a better target for my vote, I feel perfectly fine with it on him.
As of right now, however, I'm lending my support to Puzzle. I'm perfectly fine waiting a little longer to see where this takes us.
[The Family]
The disclaimer itself isn't scummy until he chooses to hide behind it as an excuse for bad play.
I Plan not to use the Disclamer, to hide bad plat. It was plan to use to help explan radomness and incomplete thoughts. that i might have.
Right, which is basically the same thing as poor play, for townies.
I'm defending you for the moment though, up until you start posting those incomplete thoughts, or lurking. Suspicion of someone behaving suspiciously in the future isn't a very convincing justification for a vote.
I'd like to make an announcement...if y'all don't mind a serious note for a second. :tongue2:
Turns out I've got mono, so I won't be as active as the rest of you. Lots of sleeping and all that. I'm feeling a bit better today, so after some lunch and maybe a nap, I'm gonna go back and read pages to catch myself up.
So for all you who're wondering "Where'd Leilani go?", that's where I went.
In conclusion, I'm not voting yet 'cause I've got like..10 pages of stuff to read, and I'll continue to play, but I won't be as active as I would otherwise.
Take care, and you'll hear from me soon!
I know it seems that I don't care,
but something in me does I swear.
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[The Family]
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
That said, 5 mafia, an SK, and one "other" seems fair enough, with a few more win conditions on the side: (see: snape)
I realize now coming out with it wasn’t too smart. The only other game I had played in before this, I was a cult leader. In that game I developed a play style that put me first. Having put the theory out in the open makes it easier for me to make my claim later. When I posted my theory I had self-preservation in mind, and didn’t think of the town as a whole as I should have.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
[The Family]
Could we have another cult on our hands? (shudders)
That's a good question.
I hope not and doubt it to some degree.
Armlx must have had his game designed or well under the way to being done before Random Mafia I was over, possibly even before it began. It is highly likely that he looked over Random Mafia I for possible design ideas but it seems to me that a cult is a major design element and it would be difficult to just add one to an already existing design and not have it throw off the balance that had already been established.
So unless he had the idea to use a cult in his game at the beginning, I'd say that it is unlikely that he added it.
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Anyway, I'll be unavailable for at least 36 hours, and maybe closer to two days, starting soon. I'll churn through the posts as soon as I can.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
While I definately agree that Chamber didn't do the right thing, I think he was in a situation where he legitimately did not know the right thing to do. I know that I thought for a while about whether or not to agree with him before doing what I now think to be the wrong thing (still trying to figure out those times when it is ok for townies to lie). I think the most important thing is that there is no way for chamber to reasonably make the leap from Axel's and Az's comments to his theory without being a scummy sounding towny. I just dont see any plausable way of that happening (barring the mafia having a list of the role names, but that seems unlikely in this setup). Also, if it was just a stab in the dark, being wrong would draw tons of attention to chamber, which I assume a begginer scum would try to avoid.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I agree that it is possible he thought that.
So I really have little to say. I read the thread last night and had little say. I still do not. Since Puzzle is gone we can not get him to tell us what is up and we also can not put pressure on him to tell us. We can not really talk about the game set-up as it is Random and it might as well be pointless. No one has said anything about there roles and it would be unwise for anyone to say anything about their roles. I no longer have a problem with CropCirles, his explaintion is good enough, and I see nothing wrong with MoT. chamber is a newbie and can be lynched for that. So um....someone do something scummy, please?
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Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Unvote: Vote Puzzle. Who's with me?
I think this answer its. He has not been very open about what he is doing but when is he? If he were active on the site I would be all for pressure votes but seeing as he is not I do not see the point of putting votes on him and then waiting two days. I think it would be ebtter to use today and tommorow for mroe discussion and then on Monday when Puzzle is back ask him to explain. If he will not then we put the votes on him. For now I will go ahead and FOS: Puzzle. I realize the point was votes but...I just will not.
No, we want to lynch him before he gets back and daykills someone.
LOL, unvote vote Sorryguy (are unvotes necessary?)
FOS Azrael for pressure voting puzzle when he isnt here to be pressured.
@axel - lol