Hey everyone! I am sorry that I am late in arriving (not too late), but I had a crazy day. I guess Im most upset about missing my chance to random vote someone :frown:.
[not an actually response to a vote] Actually, my name is SGDre, and it is the initials S and G followed by the word (name) Dre [/not an actual response]
OK, on to...content?
I dont think that revealing whether you can be found on wiki can really help the mafia, but I dont see it helping the town either so it probably isnt worth doing.
One thing that actually stood out to me was Azrael's (maybe axlerod's, im gonna get them confused for a while) request for mafia to come foward. I also considered doing this but thought that it might seem scummy. Deduction... Azrael is significantly better than I am at this game and probably wouldnt have done it if he were scum.
UnVote: CreamPuff
Vote:sgdre For caring too much about how he appears.
Because of azraels, and axels response as well as my own role, I’m going to put forth the theory that all/most town have role names that could easily be confused for scum if the person in question was already considered scummy.
Vote:sgdre For caring too much about how he appears.
Because of azraels, and axels response as well as my own role, I’m going to put forth the theory that all/most town have role names that could easily be confused for scum if the person in question was already considered scummy.
lol, I was just trying to avoid the "OMG HES GETTING DEFENSIVE" vote. I guess that I overcompensated on that one.
Also, I am going to confirm that theory, although it might have been a good idea not to bring it up until after someone claimed (alas).
lol, I was just trying to avoid the "OMG HES GETTING DEFENSIVE" vote. I guess that I overcompensated on that one.
Also, I am going to confirm that theory, although it might have been a good idea not to bring it up until after someone claimed (alas).
I was considering holding it back, but most competent scum could have figured it out I think, and there should be at least one competent person among the Mafia, so I put it forth with the assumption that they’d figure it out on there own soon enough. Also Azaerl has nearly been confirmed having been the first to mention it.
I was considering holding it back, but most competent scum could have figured it out I think, and there should be at least one competent person among the Mafia, so I put it forth with the assumption that they’d figure it out on there own soon enough. Also Azaerl has nearly been confirmed having been the first to mention it.
And knowing Az to be very cunning, he could also be scum, knowing that if any townie had a role name that was scum-ish(Which is very possible in Random) he would look more in the clear.
@ MoT: Don't ever complain about taking ACT, AP courses, working a part time job, being in >4 afterschool activities, or being a dual inrolled college student...or anything like it. I do all that, and I still find time to play 2 online mafia games. I plan on getting a 4 on lit and >3 on Bio (AP exams)
Or you could: Complain about it on another thread and not use it as an excuse to be misleading/annoying. |^_^|
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And knowing Az to be very cunning, he could also be scum, knowing that if any townie had a role name that was scum-ish(Which is very possible in Random) he would look more in the clear.
@ MoT: Don't ever complain about taking ACT, AP courses, working a part time job, being in >4 afterschool activities, or being a dual inrolled college student...or anything like it. I do all that, and I still find time to play 2 online mafia games. I plan on getting a 4 on lit and >3 on Bio (AP exams)
Or you could: Complain about it on another thread and not use it as an excuse to be misleading/annoying. |^_^|
I disagree that is too reckless for azraels play style. Axel coming in after, I could see as being smart mafia, even me from someone else’s perspective. But i think azrael is nearly cleared. This is of course all assuming my theory is correct, no one has opposed it yet and it has been supported by 3 people (1 directly 2 indirectly)
I don't think that it's too good of an idea to come out with role information, in a mass claim form, on day one to prove or disprove a theory. Also, based on an offhand comment, it's probably not a good idea to put people in a "nearly cleared" catagory. As we've seen from Puzzle many times, it can be easy to predict what peoples reactions can be and plan acordingly for later pbpa's.
And as you've said yourself
Quote from chamber »
We shouldn't assume hes town.
(Just playing the devils advocate here, I love early game discussion.)
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Puzzle is going to be gone for a few days? What are we going to do if we need a cunning plan?
Well I do not like Jobie's first post but we all say things we do not mean at times so I will withhold judgment. Axel, Az, how should we procede at this point?
Quote from chamber »
But i think azrael is nearly cleared.
No one can be confirmed anything at this point. No one can be near anything at this point. While I agree that Az coming forward with an odd role so early looks good, who cares, with Snape in the game and the title being Random it is a given we all will have screwed up roles. Plus you know, Az is that good.
It would be -very- reckless to say what he said if he were Mafia. If the town didn’t have messed up roles he would still be forced to claim a messed up role, which are much harder to claim then non-messed up roles. I would also like to point out that I never suggested a mass claim so please don’t put words in my mouth.
@ MoT: Don't ever complain about taking ACT, AP courses, working a part time job, being in >4 afterschool activities, or being a dual inrolled college student...or anything like it. I do all that, and I still find time to play 2 online mafia games. I plan on getting a 4 on lit and >3 on Bio (AP exams)
Or you could: Complain about it on another thread and not use it as an excuse to be misleading/annoying. |^_^|
I do not care about what you do outside of this. I was giving a very fair warring, for putting stuff in at times. Also I not that use to being very buzy and not very good a buguting time. However I am not complaining, I am stating for the record. Also 2 AP Classes (Calc and Chemistry) and the WSF, also college Apps. * magicianofthought is stopping so he dose not rant and digresses.
Quote from Rhinocero »
IF EITHER MOT OR SORRYGUY POST ANYTHING LIKE THEY DID IN 8-BIT MAFIA I SWEAR I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN AND PUNCH YOU IN THE FACE.
Take some Anger managemt classes they are good.
@S_G: Man, i forgot that you sign up! How about we try to out do each other, and see how can be more random. what do you thnk?
It would be -very- reckless to say what he said if he were Mafia. If the town didn’t have messed up roles he would still be forced to claim a messed up role, which are much harder to claim then non-messed up roles. I would also like to point out that I never suggested a mass claim so please don’t put words in my mouth.
I do not think I said you asked for a mass claim. But you must understand that with Snape in the game you KNOW that roles will not be normal. And even if he is the only one with a strange role to make the claim day one so early would make us all know it was true. See you have to understand that the risk it what makes it a good play.
And at any rate having a strange role means nothing really. I have a feelign mafia, SKs, everyone has a screwed up role so goes niether way.
I have a feeling that was not very coherant. Sorry. PSAT today and I am sorta tired.
It would be -very- reckless to say what he said if he were Mafia. If the town didn’t have messed up roles he would still be forced to claim a messed up role, which are much harder to claim then non-messed up roles. I would also like to point out that I never suggested a mass claim so please don’t put words in my mouth.
I am REALLY confused here.
I think by
say what he said
you mean
Quote from Axelrod »
Guilty people, you may step forward and identify yourselves now.
which was probably (read certainly just a joke). However, you might also mean the comments about the roles that Azrael and Axelrod would not like to claim. There could be several reasons for this. Their roles could either be a) scummy (some sort of killer person) b) improbable (some sort of role we have never seen before, a regular cop with no special "random flavor) C) generally dangerous claims (untargetable, vanilla townie).
Furthermore, if they were mafia, its unlikely that BOTH players, being so experienced, would identify themselves together, so likely theyre not both mafia, at the very least. In general, saying that seems like something that is neither scummy nor townie in and of itself, it is rather quite neutral. And no I'm not saying they're SKs.
I do not think I said you asked for a mass claim. But you must understand that with Snape in the game you KNOW that roles will not be normal. And even if he is the only one with a strange role to make the claim day one so early would make us all know it was true. See you have to understand that the risk it what makes it a good play.
And at any rate having a strange role means nothing really. I have a feelign mafia, SKs, everyone has a screwed up role so goes niether way.
I have a feeling that was not very coherant. Sorry. PSAT today and I am sorta tired.
The mass claim comment was targeted at wolg who posted above you. Ok so all the roles are messed up, not my point. I theorized that all the towns roles have scommyish characters. This fits very well with what axel and azrael said, and I don’t see another possible meaning. To make such a claim on day one is too risky because being forced to make a scummy sounding claim when no one else is, is suicide in my opinion. I have a feeling I'm not understanding your points though. And thinking about this more I think too much effort is being placed on the topic. I would still consider azrael for scum if he did something scummy.
I think by you mean which was probably (read certainly just a joke). However, you might also mean the comments about the roles that Azrael and Axelrod would not like to claim. There could be several reasons for this. Their roles could either be a) scummy (some sort of killer person) b) improbable (some sort of role we have never seen before, a regular cop with no special "random flavor) C) generally dangerous claims (untargetable, vanilla townie).
Furthermore, if they were mafia, its unlikely that BOTH players, being so experienced, would identify themselves together, so likely theyre not both mafia, at the very least. In general, saying that seems like something that is neither scummy nor townie in and of itself, it is rather quite neutral. And no I'm not saying they're SKs.
To make it clear I was assuming he was speaking of the role claiming difficulty not that guilty coming forward. I may have misunderstood. At any rate here is the exact quote:
Quote from Az »
Hmm. I hope to God I don't have to claim in this game.
WTF?
Vote Azrael, for hinting at role information.
Due to this I would go with your B before any of the others. In any game you would not want to claim if it is A and Az and Axel would not comment on such nonsense. Also I do not believe they would say anything if they were vanilla or untargetable. They would also jsut let that go.
Therefore I would have to think they are talking about B., which considering what we know of the game set-up so far would be the most likely.
I think by you mean which was probably (read certainly just a joke). However, you might also mean the comments about the roles that Azrael and Axelrod would not like to claim. There could be several reasons for this. Their roles could either be a) scummy (some sort of killer person) b) improbable (some sort of role we have never seen before, a regular cop with no special "random flavor) C) generally dangerous claims (untargetable, vanilla townie).
Furthermore, if they were mafia, its unlikely that BOTH players, being so experienced, would identify themselves together, so likely theyre not both mafia, at the very least. In general, saying that seems like something that is neither scummy nor townie in and of itself, it is rather quite neutral. And no I'm not saying they're SKs.
I was talking about the talk of not wanting to have to claim. I would think things such as untargetable, and basic townie roles are common enough for them not to make a comment when receiving such a role, also this being random mafia, strange roles are to be expected. Therefor i come back to your first point, and my theory. I think your first point is the most likely, and since 4 people have kind of supported it, and azreal was first to mention it. I think there is a very good chance he is town. ( I hope that helped to clear things up, I’m not so sure it did though)
The mass claim comment was targeted at wolg who posted above you. Ok so all the roles are messed up, not my point. I theorized that all the towns roles have scommyish characters. This fits very well with what axel and azrael said, and I don’t see another possible meaning. To make such a claim on day one is too risky because being forced to make a scummy sounding claim when no one else is, is suicide in my opinion. I have a feeling I'm not understanding your points though. And thinking about this more I think too much effort is being placed on the topic. I would still consider azrael for scum if he did something scummy.
Edit By Way Of Double Post (EBWOBP): I believe you professed earlier to being new at mafia, and although I am not the most expirenced or after 8-Bit all that good player here I will try and break this down for you.
Mafia is a game of reverse, double-reserve, and trible dupidy-reserve thinking. This is one of the reasons I find it funny to have Snape in the game. At any rate if a good player like Azreal or Puzzle or Axel says something like:
"I am _______"
While everyone esle is saying:
"I am ________(total opposite)"
You can assume that they are telling the truth. You do not want to be someone different from the herd. But when you do so unpressured then you can assume the person is being truthful as without pressure they have no reason to say it in the first place.
Once again I do not think I am making sense but I tryed. Can some more expirenced try and explain what I am saying better?
Anyway where do we want to go from here? We can further analyst Az and Axel but I believe it is general belief that not enough posts have been made to figure anything out. We can continue to discuss it but I believe that would hold up Day 1. So from here we shall?
I have reread the relevant quotes by axel and az and I agree with chamber. They seem to be suggesting that they both have scummy sounding role names. As chamber and I both have scummy sounding role names, I would not be suprised if it was a theme for the town. With that in mind, the following seems very interesting...
Quote from WellOfLostGnomes »
And knowing Az to be very cunning, he could also be scum, knowing that if any townie had a role name that was scum-ish(Which is very possible in Random) he would look more in the clear.
This seems to imply that WoLG does NOT have a scummy sounding role. First of all, why would Az take a stab in the dark like this if he was mafia (not to mention the attention it draws to him either way)? More importantly, if WoLG were a townie with a scummy sounding role, wouldnt he have assumed that Az was in a similar situation instead of suggesting that he could be scum? While I realize that you are not accusing Az of being scum, I think that what he said makes him seem less scummy, but you say that it could be a reasonable move if he was scum. This response, combine with your response to chambers (perfectly reasonable in my opinion) suggestion that all townies may have scummy roles seems a little scummy to me.
FOS WoLG
EBWODP: Also, many people have been saying that we cannot be completely sure about people being cleared and whatnot. I think that we all know that no one is cleared yet, we are just saying that it is less likely that they are scum (I for one would feel very uncomfortable with a lynch/forced claim of Az, Axel, or Chamber). Also, stop using the "We can't know anything because it is random mafia" excuse. Just because it is random mafia doesnt mean that there is a method to the madness.
Is the reason that more people arent agree with chamber's theory because they have non-scummy roles as a townie? If it gets more backing i think it may be prudent to take a close look at people who posted after it without supporting it (even moreso to those who questioned it).
It would be the height of irony if the mafia in this game all had non-scummy sounding roles, and based on this little discussion we are having, decided that they all needed to come up with scummy roles for false-claims.
That said, I am not at all convinced that the entire town has "double-edged" or scummish sounding roles. Don't assume you know what I meant by my own little off-hand remark. I'm certainly not assuming anything about Azrael based on his.
He is perfectly capable of just throwing that out there as scum.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
It would be the height of irony if the mafia in this game all had non-scummy sounding roles, and based on this little discussion we are having, decided that they all needed to come up with scummy roles for false-claims.
That said, I am not at all convinced that the entire town has "double-edged" or scummish sounding roles. Don't assume you know what I meant by my own little off-hand remark. I'm certainly not assuming anything about Azrael based on his.
That is very true I would find it hard to belive if the intire town had scummy sounding names. I think that before we decide that the whole town has something we need more evidence. In a game that is random, it would be strange if the town all had something like that in common (if this is the case on the other hand would the mafia then have very town sounding names?). I do think we could be hitting at something here if it is correct but right now the chance that the whole town has scummy names is about 80-20 against(in my mind), but not full since we have these people that seem to be claiming scummy names.
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
It would be the height of irony if the mafia in this game all had non-scummy sounding roles, and based on this little discussion we are having, decided that they all needed to come up with scummy roles for false-claims.
Darn! Now you caught my cunning plan Tee Em and they will not claim scummy roles so we can lynch them!
Quote from Axelrod »
That said, I am not at all convinced that the entire town has "double-edged" or scummish sounding roles. Don't assume you know what I meant by my own little off-hand remark. I'm certainly not assuming anything about Azrael based on his.
He is perfectly capable of just throwing that out there as scum.
Truth. Like I said, the scummy-sounding name thing really has no bearing on actual scuminess.
Sorry for the brevity of thought, but I really don't think the line of reasoning here is one that's very important.
Woohoo! It's day one, and I'm already "cleared". Thanks Chamber! I'm glad we can continue our proud tradition of cooperation as scu- err, townies.
But seriously, we probably shouldn't be confirming people that quickly over stuff that flimsy. I could easily be using my diabolic and cunning skillz to spread my evil evilness of death throughout the town. Cause y'all know, in mafia, the AzinatorTAKES NO PRISONERS!!!
Although, I'd be pretty impressed if I'd come up with a false claim 10 minutes into the game, and posted about it too. That would be awful spiffy of me. I'll have to jot that one down. *scribbles down note to self*
(Ah ha! Yet more mind games! The evil one's pattern of trickery and deceit becomes more and more intricate! He pretends that it's actually a point in his favor, when in reality, it means nothing! How devious! FOS Azrael!)
But yeah. Besides that, we probably shouldn't be revealing our role info this soon. Giving the mafia ideas about what to claim, and who to kill usually isn't too great an idea.
Unless you want to die. And you're a total masochist. Then it works just fine.
First, everyone should strip naked and do the macarena while rubbing recycled goat cheese across their entire body. Then we should resurrect the ghosts of Ernest Borgnine and F. Scott Fitzgerald, and force them to raise an army of flesh-eating killer gerbils. Then we give them the mafia's scent, and turn them loose upon our unsuspecting enemies (the ones who don't smell like recycled goat cheese).
Our victory will be assured.
Quote from SorryGuy »
Due to this I would go with your B before any of the others. In any game you would not want to claim if it is A and Az and Axel would not comment on such nonsense. Also I do not believe they would say anything if they were vanilla or untargetable. They would also jsut let that go.
Therefore I would have to think they are talking about B., which considering what we know of the game set-up so far would be the most likely.
Pffft. Axel always draws as much attention to himself as possible when he gets a power role. It's his trademark. He enjoys being violated that way.
Unvote Puzzle, how did I convince you that I'm not town?Not that I'd want to do it again, but being able to convince people of things that arn't true is nifty.
In fact, you convinced me more of something else.
Do you want me to go down that road now or shall we wonder a bit about Ikerr first ?
Personally I would like to know what Ikerr did besides make bad posts.
Quote from CropCircles »
Vote MoT
...
...
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Just random voting still? I mean at least random votes have something with them. I think we are moving past random votes and into a little bit of analyst now so please no one esle so this.
Pffft. Axel always draws as much attention to himself as possible when he gets a power role. It's his trademark. He enjoys being violated that way.
Don't ask me how I know that.
I do NOT!
I must say, you seem to be in a good mood this game.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I must say, you seem to be in a good mood this game.
Sleep deprivation is to Azrael what wheat gluten is to Taeme: you never know what could happen.
Quote from Puzzle »
It's probably because his GF gave him a favour.
Nope, she's on her period.
Bee tee dubs, would you like to explain what was going on in your head in regards to Ikerr and Chamber? It'd be great if we could just accept your votes on faith, but unless you're claiming Jesus, I'd like a little bit more proof.
@ puzzle: Did chambers posts actually convince you that he may be scum? It would seem extremely difficult to jump from Az's and Axel's statements to an assumption that they are townies with scummy names unless chamber himself was a townie with a scummy name. What made you think he was scummy?
Gee, Puzzle is being inscrutable again, so what else is new?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
@Puzzle: You can wonder about me if you want, I have nothing to hide. I would just rather see your reasons for it. It could help my play for future games, if I know what I'm doing wrong.
Personnally, I would be more interested in going after Jobie. Early he seemed to be fishing for info, then continued to ask about people's roles when this was pointed out. He also managed to push himself into the background shortly after by quickly relenting to Chamber.
I know its not much, and certainly not voteworthy, but I'm not seeing any better leads at this point. So, I'll just end with a FoS Jobie.
Personnally, I would be more interested in going after Jobie. Early he seemed to be fishing for info, then continued to ask about people's roles when this was pointed out. He also managed to push himself into the background shortly after by quickly relenting to Chamber.
I know its not much, and certainly not voteworthy, but I'm not seeing any better leads at this point. So, I'll just end with a FoS Jobie.
I've already stated, I was trying to move us away from the joking mood and into a serious analytical mood. I did it in the least dangerous way. (well ok the lesst dangerous way would have been: "Guys can we get serious now?") But it really isn't that big of a deal.
I'll join Puzzle here and say: VOTE: ikerr. I'll help a guy out, 'cause I assume you have an idea what you're doing (note: I hope to God this isn't 8-bit all over and will Unvote the second this is even the slighest bit like it.)
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Mafia Stats (10-22 Overall) Random Mafia 2 Town MVP '08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Heh, at least Puzzle got what I meant. I don't see Ikerr doing a whole lot though, but the accusations must be sideboard tech for later. So yeah, I'm rather confused about CC's posting...just a vote and no explination...very unlike him.
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Wow this is the most humor I've seen in a mafia game for a while....... Espcially azrael.
Jobie's fishing(punniness) is a little worrying but seems innocent enough, and goes along with his explanation but fos: jobie
I find the chamber/jobie banter a little odd, seems like there overanalyzing Az's post, the one about not wanting to claim. fos:chamber
I give Rhino my full and unadulterated support for this post:
Quote from Rhinocero »
I know MoT has already partially adressed this, however:
IF EITHER MOT OR SORRYGUY POST ANYTHING LIKE THEY DID IN 8-BIT MAFIA I SWEAR I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN AND PUNCH YOU IN THE FACE.
If you're going to be that disjointed, DON'T POST.
Sorry about that, and I mean no offense; just a bit of neccesary protocol.
Now then, on to the game proper.
Random Vote: Sgrde for having a hard to pronounce name. meanie.
Sorry guy is already begining to confuse me but I think he's trying to explain WIFOM logic, actually scratch that apart from that one post SG seems to be sane today.
Az's happiness is ...... just weirdish but I don't think too much of it for now.
Chamber seems to be getting in quite a few odd posts, such as post 63. He also seems a tad overdefensive from that post so I will unvote Vote: chamber
Amazing. I lose the internet for one day, and when I get here, I find seven pages to read. Well, six technically, but that's not my point. As yet, I haven't really got any ideas on who's scum or town, but I'll reread the thread and figure something out.
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Ambivalent owner of nan's soul. Proud worshipper of TFE.
Wow this is the most humor I've seen in a mafia game for a while....... Espcially azrael.
Jobie's fishing(punniness) is a little worrying but seems innocent enough, and goes along with his explanation but fos: jobie
I find the chamber/jobie banter a little odd, seems like there overanalyzing Az's post, the one about not wanting to claim. fos:chamber
I give Rhino my full and unadulterated support for this post:
Sorry guy is already begining to confuse me but I think he's trying to explain WIFOM logic, actually scratch that apart from that one post SG seems to be sane today.
Az's happiness is ...... just weirdish but I don't think too much of it for now.
Chamber seems to be getting in quite a few odd posts, such as post 63. He also seems a tad overdefensive from that post so I will unvote Vote: chamber
I believe I have already stated why I believe what I believe. I have no defense against your vote. In regards to ikerr I really don’t see what he's done. Puzzle, you can start on me whenever you like (though I’d really rather you never did).
Amazing. I lose the internet for one day, and when I get here, I find seven pages to read. Well, six technically, but that's not my point. As yet, I haven't really got any ideas on who's scum or town, but I'll reread the thread and figure something out.
Don't worry, we haven't said anything. =/
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Anyway unvote. We really can't (and shouldn't) assume anything from Az's post, or Axel's response. After all, there's a bunch of possibilities. If you assume something on such little information, there's a good chance you're wrong.
So much information...brain overload. Do you people actually go to school or work, or does this happen at night? That sounds scummy to me. If you don't have lives, I'm sure you're up to something.:teach:
So much information...brain overload. Do you people actually go to school or work, or does this happen at night? That sounds scummy to me. If you don't have lives, I'm sure you're up to something.:teach:
I go to school. But outside of school I have almost no life, so I can hover over the thread for the 10+ hours I'm not asleeep/at school. I also think many people live in diffrent time zones, so diffrent players are active at diffrent times. I just realized how little relevnece this post has to the game, oh well.
I've already stated, I was trying to move us away from the joking mood and into a serious analytical mood. I did it in the least dangerous way. (well ok the lesst dangerous way would have been: "Guys can we get serious now?") But it really isn't that big of a deal.
While I agree that the particular info you asked about isn't that dangerous, it does open the door for more sensitive bits. Mostly what I didn't like was your reply, precisely:
Quote from Jobie »
Plus, it really wouldn't kill you to say whether or not you knew about your Role or not.
Where it seemed like you were still trying to push people to come forward, while you receded into the background shortly after. Like I said, it really wasn't much to go on, but I have to try to derail the Puzzle-wagon against me, which isn't too easy to do defensively when I don't know what he finds scummy about me.
On another note: What up guys? Why must you follow Puzzle after me when he has placed no reason for his vote? Surely you must be able to find better targets.
Also, FoS CropCircles. He has only 3 posts, 2 of which are baseless votes and another that confirms one of the votes as baseless. In the games I have seen him in, he has posted much more meaningful posts than this. He actually seemed to be trying to help the town.
UnVote: CreamPuff
Vote:sgdre For caring too much about how he appears.
Because of azraels, and axels response as well as my own role, I’m going to put forth the theory that all/most town have role names that could easily be confused for scum if the person in question was already considered scummy.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Does anyone think that Ikker's chance of being scum is significantly lessened by the fact that he was added after role PM's got sent out?
/me raises hand
I would agrea that his chances of being mafia are almsot zero, but he could be another kind of scum or neutral. We shouldn't assume hes town.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
lol, I was just trying to avoid the "OMG HES GETTING DEFENSIVE" vote. I guess that I overcompensated on that one.
Also, I am going to confirm that theory, although it might have been a good idea not to bring it up until after someone claimed (alas).
I was considering holding it back, but most competent scum could have figured it out I think, and there should be at least one competent person among the Mafia, so I put it forth with the assumption that they’d figure it out on there own soon enough. Also Azaerl has nearly been confirmed having been the first to mention it.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
And knowing Az to be very cunning, he could also be scum, knowing that if any townie had a role name that was scum-ish(Which is very possible in Random) he would look more in the clear.
@ MoT: Don't ever complain about taking ACT, AP courses, working a part time job, being in >4 afterschool activities, or being a dual inrolled college student...or anything like it. I do all that, and I still find time to play 2 online mafia games. I plan on getting a 4 on lit and >3 on Bio (AP exams)
Or you could: Complain about it on another thread and not use it as an excuse to be misleading/annoying. |^_^|
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Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
I disagree that is too reckless for azraels play style. Axel coming in after, I could see as being smart mafia, even me from someone else’s perspective. But i think azrael is nearly cleared. This is of course all assuming my theory is correct, no one has opposed it yet and it has been supported by 3 people (1 directly 2 indirectly)
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
And as you've said yourself
(Just playing the devils advocate here, I love early game discussion.)
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Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Well I do not like Jobie's first post but we all say things we do not mean at times so I will withhold judgment. Axel, Az, how should we procede at this point?
No one can be confirmed anything at this point. No one can be near anything at this point. While I agree that Az coming forward with an odd role so early looks good, who cares, with Snape in the game and the title being Random it is a given we all will have screwed up roles. Plus you know, Az is that good.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
I do not care about what you do outside of this. I was giving a very fair warring, for putting stuff in at times. Also I not that use to being very buzy and not very good a buguting time. However I am not complaining, I am stating for the record. Also 2 AP Classes (Calc and Chemistry) and the WSF, also college Apps.
* magicianofthought is stopping so he dose not rant and digresses.
Take some Anger managemt classes they are good.
@S_G: Man, i forgot that you sign up! How about we try to out do each other, and see how can be more random. what do you thnk?
I do not think I said you asked for a mass claim. But you must understand that with Snape in the game you KNOW that roles will not be normal. And even if he is the only one with a strange role to make the claim day one so early would make us all know it was true. See you have to understand that the risk it what makes it a good play.
And at any rate having a strange role means nothing really. I have a feelign mafia, SKs, everyone has a screwed up role so goes niether way.
I have a feeling that was not very coherant. Sorry. PSAT today and I am sorta tired.
I am REALLY confused here.
I think by you mean which was probably (read certainly just a joke). However, you might also mean the comments about the roles that Azrael and Axelrod would not like to claim. There could be several reasons for this. Their roles could either be a) scummy (some sort of killer person) b) improbable (some sort of role we have never seen before, a regular cop with no special "random flavor) C) generally dangerous claims (untargetable, vanilla townie).
Furthermore, if they were mafia, its unlikely that BOTH players, being so experienced, would identify themselves together, so likely theyre not both mafia, at the very least. In general, saying that seems like something that is neither scummy nor townie in and of itself, it is rather quite neutral. And no I'm not saying they're SKs.
The mass claim comment was targeted at wolg who posted above you. Ok so all the roles are messed up, not my point. I theorized that all the towns roles have scommyish characters. This fits very well with what axel and azrael said, and I don’t see another possible meaning. To make such a claim on day one is too risky because being forced to make a scummy sounding claim when no one else is, is suicide in my opinion. I have a feeling I'm not understanding your points though. And thinking about this more I think too much effort is being placed on the topic. I would still consider azrael for scum if he did something scummy.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
To make it clear I was assuming he was speaking of the role claiming difficulty not that guilty coming forward. I may have misunderstood. At any rate here is the exact quote:
Due to this I would go with your B before any of the others. In any game you would not want to claim if it is A and Az and Axel would not comment on such nonsense. Also I do not believe they would say anything if they were vanilla or untargetable. They would also jsut let that go.
Therefore I would have to think they are talking about B., which considering what we know of the game set-up so far would be the most likely.
I was talking about the talk of not wanting to have to claim. I would think things such as untargetable, and basic townie roles are common enough for them not to make a comment when receiving such a role, also this being random mafia, strange roles are to be expected. Therefor i come back to your first point, and my theory. I think your first point is the most likely, and since 4 people have kind of supported it, and azreal was first to mention it. I think there is a very good chance he is town. ( I hope that helped to clear things up, I’m not so sure it did though)
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Edit By Way Of Double Post (EBWOBP): I believe you professed earlier to being new at mafia, and although I am not the most expirenced or after 8-Bit all that good player here I will try and break this down for you.
Mafia is a game of reverse, double-reserve, and trible dupidy-reserve thinking. This is one of the reasons I find it funny to have Snape in the game. At any rate if a good player like Azreal or Puzzle or Axel says something like:
"I am _______"
While everyone esle is saying:
"I am ________(total opposite)"
You can assume that they are telling the truth. You do not want to be someone different from the herd. But when you do so unpressured then you can assume the person is being truthful as without pressure they have no reason to say it in the first place.
Once again I do not think I am making sense but I tryed. Can some more expirenced try and explain what I am saying better?
Anyway where do we want to go from here? We can further analyst Az and Axel but I believe it is general belief that not enough posts have been made to figure anything out. We can continue to discuss it but I believe that would hold up Day 1. So from here we shall?
This seems to imply that WoLG does NOT have a scummy sounding role. First of all, why would Az take a stab in the dark like this if he was mafia (not to mention the attention it draws to him either way)? More importantly, if WoLG were a townie with a scummy sounding role, wouldnt he have assumed that Az was in a similar situation instead of suggesting that he could be scum? While I realize that you are not accusing Az of being scum, I think that what he said makes him seem less scummy, but you say that it could be a reasonable move if he was scum. This response, combine with your response to chambers (perfectly reasonable in my opinion) suggestion that all townies may have scummy roles seems a little scummy to me.
FOS WoLG
EBWODP: Also, many people have been saying that we cannot be completely sure about people being cleared and whatnot. I think that we all know that no one is cleared yet, we are just saying that it is less likely that they are scum (I for one would feel very uncomfortable with a lynch/forced claim of Az, Axel, or Chamber). Also, stop using the "We can't know anything because it is random mafia" excuse. Just because it is random mafia doesnt mean that there is a method to the madness.
Is the reason that more people arent agree with chamber's theory because they have non-scummy roles as a townie? If it gets more backing i think it may be prudent to take a close look at people who posted after it without supporting it (even moreso to those who questioned it).
That said, I am not at all convinced that the entire town has "double-edged" or scummish sounding roles. Don't assume you know what I meant by my own little off-hand remark. I'm certainly not assuming anything about Azrael based on his.
He is perfectly capable of just throwing that out there as scum.
That is very true I would find it hard to belive if the intire town had scummy sounding names. I think that before we decide that the whole town has something we need more evidence. In a game that is random, it would be strange if the town all had something like that in common (if this is the case on the other hand would the mafia then have very town sounding names?). I do think we could be hitting at something here if it is correct but right now the chance that the whole town has scummy names is about 80-20 against(in my mind), but not full since we have these people that seem to be claiming scummy names.
Darn! Now you caught my cunning plan Tee Em and they will not claim scummy roles so we can lynch them!
Truth. Like I said, the scummy-sounding name thing really has no bearing on actual scuminess.
Sorry for the brevity of thought, but I really don't think the line of reasoning here is one that's very important.
But seriously, we probably shouldn't be confirming people that quickly over stuff that flimsy. I could easily be using my diabolic and cunning skillz to spread my evil evilness of death throughout the town. Cause y'all know, in mafia, the Azinator TAKES NO PRISONERS!!!
Although, I'd be pretty impressed if I'd come up with a false claim 10 minutes into the game, and posted about it too. That would be awful spiffy of me. I'll have to jot that one down. *scribbles down note to self*
(Ah ha! Yet more mind games! The evil one's pattern of trickery and deceit becomes more and more intricate! He pretends that it's actually a point in his favor, when in reality, it means nothing! How devious! FOS Azrael!)
But yeah. Besides that, we probably shouldn't be revealing our role info this soon. Giving the mafia ideas about what to claim, and who to kill usually isn't too great an idea.
Unless you want to die. And you're a total masochist. Then it works just fine.
[The Family]
Axel, Az, how should we procede at this point?
First, everyone should strip naked and do the macarena while rubbing recycled goat cheese across their entire body. Then we should resurrect the ghosts of Ernest Borgnine and F. Scott Fitzgerald, and force them to raise an army of flesh-eating killer gerbils. Then we give them the mafia's scent, and turn them loose upon our unsuspecting enemies (the ones who don't smell like recycled goat cheese).
Our victory will be assured.
Pffft. Axel always draws as much attention to himself as possible when he gets a power role. It's his trademark. He enjoys being violated that way.
Don't ask me how I know that.
Why? No expellnation to what you have voted for me? Just a vote?
Hawkeye- 2 (Xyre, Silicon)
Rhinocero- 1 (Fayul)
MoT- 2 (Puzzle, CropCircles)
Sorryguy- 1 (Enigma)
Azrael- 1 (Azrael)
Swinkee- 1 (Jobie)
Sgdre- 2 (Rhinocero, Chamber)
Its fun to watch people play mafia.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Personally I would like to know what Ikerr did besides make bad posts.
...
...
...
Just random voting still? I mean at least random votes have something with them. I think we are moving past random votes and into a little bit of analyst now so please no one esle so this.
@Az: Your awesome. Just thought you should know.
I do NOT!
I must say, you seem to be in a good mood this game.
Sleep deprivation is to Azrael what wheat gluten is to Taeme: you never know what could happen.
Nope, she's on her period.
Bee tee dubs, would you like to explain what was going on in your head in regards to Ikerr and Chamber? It'd be great if we could just accept your votes on faith, but unless you're claiming Jesus, I'd like a little bit more proof.
Interesting.
[The Family]
I have a reason: It's MoT.
Unvote whoever.
I want to know what I did too.
@Puzzle: You can wonder about me if you want, I have nothing to hide. I would just rather see your reasons for it. It could help my play for future games, if I know what I'm doing wrong.
Personnally, I would be more interested in going after Jobie. Early he seemed to be fishing for info, then continued to ask about people's roles when this was pointed out. He also managed to push himself into the background shortly after by quickly relenting to Chamber.
I know its not much, and certainly not voteworthy, but I'm not seeing any better leads at this point. So, I'll just end with a FoS Jobie.
I've already stated, I was trying to move us away from the joking mood and into a serious analytical mood. I did it in the least dangerous way. (well ok the lesst dangerous way would have been: "Guys can we get serious now?") But it really isn't that big of a deal.
I'll join Puzzle here and say: VOTE: ikerr. I'll help a guy out, 'cause I assume you have an idea what you're doing (note: I hope to God this isn't 8-bit all over and will Unvote the second this is even the slighest bit like it.)
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
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Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Jobie's fishing(punniness) is a little worrying but seems innocent enough, and goes along with his explanation but fos: jobie
I find the chamber/jobie banter a little odd, seems like there overanalyzing Az's post, the one about not wanting to claim. fos:chamber
I give Rhino my full and unadulterated support for this post:
Sorry guy is already begining to confuse me but I think he's trying to explain WIFOM logic, actually scratch that apart from that one post SG seems to be sane today.
Az's happiness is ...... just weirdish but I don't think too much of it for now.
Chamber seems to be getting in quite a few odd posts, such as post 63. He also seems a tad overdefensive from that post so I will unvote Vote: chamber
Proud worshipper of TFE.
I believe I have already stated why I believe what I believe. I have no defense against your vote. In regards to ikerr I really don’t see what he's done. Puzzle, you can start on me whenever you like (though I’d really rather you never did).
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Don't worry, we haven't said anything. =/
This game is very interesting so far.
Anyway unvote. We really can't (and shouldn't) assume anything from Az's post, or Axel's response. After all, there's a bunch of possibilities. If you assume something on such little information, there's a good chance you're wrong.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I go to school. But outside of school I have almost no life, so I can hover over the thread for the 10+ hours I'm not asleeep/at school. I also think many people live in diffrent time zones, so diffrent players are active at diffrent times. I just realized how little relevnece this post has to the game, oh well.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
[The Family]
While I agree that the particular info you asked about isn't that dangerous, it does open the door for more sensitive bits. Mostly what I didn't like was your reply, precisely:
Where it seemed like you were still trying to push people to come forward, while you receded into the background shortly after. Like I said, it really wasn't much to go on, but I have to try to derail the Puzzle-wagon against me, which isn't too easy to do defensively when I don't know what he finds scummy about me.
On another note: What up guys? Why must you follow Puzzle after me when he has placed no reason for his vote? Surely you must be able to find better targets.
Also, FoS CropCircles. He has only 3 posts, 2 of which are baseless votes and another that confirms one of the votes as baseless. In the games I have seen him in, he has posted much more meaningful posts than this. He actually seemed to be trying to help the town.
You need to freak out, man. I want to see another Hilarious Event of Jade Leech Proportions.
In other news, I don't really trust puzzle, but I'm willing to put a little random pressure on.
A little, though. Not a vote.
FOS: Ikerr
also FOS: puzzle in case you're lying to us
lying liar