Uh, yeah, just realized I meant 1/7 Chance that the Mafia would hit the doc.... what do you mean for 1/10? I can't think of anything.
I meant that the doc would increase his chance of protecting the right person. The Y has made some pretty good arguments as to why that wouldn't work however. reverse reverse reverse psychology and what not.
Hahahaha... now we're really over analysing. I guess I shouldn't complain as I started it.
Seems to me that you've slipped a little there TWS. You know there are only three mafioso don't you?
unFoS TWS vote That Which Squeaks.
Yes I slipped, in that I totally forgot what I was trying to prove. And you're the one I got three mafia from, your logic makes sense, two mafia would take too long, four mafia would be too many. More redirection?
wow, alot has happened since i left, sorry about leaving for thanksgiving, i was 2,000 miles away from my computer. stupid family. but in the prospect of the game,
Quote from That Which Squeaks »
So broom is either in a power role and dumb, or just a vanilla townie who made an innocent comment?
doesn't anyone have any sense of flavor, i thought we would be taking, "like, ya, *chews gum* so totally" but i guess i was wrong. i'll be able to get a full post to everyone one when i get home tonight, but to adress the short matters now, i really liked how only 3 out of 11 are really posting and jumping on the band wagon again, and agin, on diffrent people the whole time. wooo a 3 person bandow wagon. i bet they're all mafia and just jerkin us around. i will talk to everyone in depth about my role tonight-or not talk. p.s. i was kidding about the the all 3 of them being mafia.
TWS - You are absolutely right - I am trying to redirect the attention. We're wasting valuable time grilling a townie (me). I suspect that you are Mafia, so you become the target. If you want my vote moved it is time you start defending yourself.
Just a recap of why I suspect TWS:
1. Early random vote swapped quickly for a bandwagon (which admittedly I started)
2. Very quick to change to the next flavour of the thread (me)
3. Too confident as to the numbers of the mafia
I'll go back and read TWS's posts and will then try to elaborate.
Let's begin some discussion shall we.
We need to identify the mafia. We also need to identify the various roles people have (like the doc and the cop). BUT dont anybody reveal these things yet otherwise we are giving too much info to the mafia. We need to be more subtle than that.
This was mistake 1. You wanted people to reveal something that might hint at their role....super mafia early move
Quote from Passdog »
@ That Which Speaks: let's put the pressure on for BroomHead to start defending himself.
We've got to start somewhere...
Trying to get an early bandwagon. While this may seem innocent, it's not. Mafia uses early bandwagon techniques to try and "flush" out role information.
Quote from Passdog »
Hmmm... I've obviously done a terrible job being cryptic (which was my intent). Even if I were doing a good job the cats out of the bag now anyway.
Paranoid is right - I began to suspect that BroomHead was the Cop when I reread his initial post.
Who else would have the passion to search for the guilty parties but Jenny's good friend? I reread the post and decided this was a message to the other townies as to BroomHead's role. The unfortunate thing was that I had already cast suspicion on him indicating he was Mafia. I wanted to know if I was right so I attempted to get the info out of him subtley. There I failed and unfortunately revealed the info to everyone. I'm sorry.
However I do not think that this is necessarily a bad thing as if I am correct and Broomhead is the Cop then the Doc will know who to protect.
Now as confirmation of this theory it would be useful for BroomHead to name claim to see if we can confirm anything.
Then you reveal that you believe Broomhead is the cop, a move by a desperate mafia member. This allows the rest of the mafia to know who the cop is........NOT A SMART MOVE.
I'm going to issue a FOS to beaker for the fewest posts.
TWS - You are absolutely right - I am trying to redirect the attention. We're wasting valuable time grilling a townie (me). I suspect that you are Mafia, so you become the target. If you want my vote moved it is time you start defending yourself.
Just a recap of why I suspect TWS:
1. Early random vote swapped quickly for a bandwagon (which admittedly I started)
2. Very quick to change to the next flavour of the thread (me)
3. Too confident as to the numbers of the mafia
I'll go back and read TWS's posts and will then try to elaborate.
Redirection from someone at least four people feel is a mafia is not neccesarily a good idea. However, if you feel I am scum, feel free to post your analysis.
1) I jumped on the bandwagon you started, admittedly scummy, but I jumped off just as quick, after growing suspicous of you... the person who many people feel has acted the most scummy.
2) If you didn't notice, I was the third person to vote for you, after you acted very suspicous (at least in my eyes). Hardly bandwagoning on you.
3) Too confident? Once again, I got the numbers from you, which are the only numbers that make sense. Yes, I am confident in them, because the logic you came up with seem infalliable, unless we're dealing with bastard moddery, which I highly doubt in a noob mafia game.
@ NavyJoe: Mistake 1 and 2 are valid arguments and I can see where you would formulate these idea's. However mistake 3 I'm not so clear on... at what point did I become desperate?
By revealing who you think the cop is a move a townie would not risk. If a townie was about to get lynched, they would try and prove themselves innocent and only keep their attention on that. Mafia would reveal who they think certain roles are as to tip their fellow mafia members. That is where you made your final mistake....
By revealing who you think the cop is a move a townie would not risk. If a townie was about to get lynched, they would try and prove themselves innocent and only keep their attention on that. Mafia would reveal who they think certain roles are as to tip their fellow mafia members. That is where you made your final mistake....
By revealing who you think the cop is a move a townie would not risk. If a townie was about to get lynched, they would try and prove themselves innocent and only keep their attention on that. Mafia would reveal who they think certain roles are as to tip their fellow mafia members. That is where you made your final mistake....
I revealed the information at the request of other players. No not necessarily a wise move. I have however explained my reasoning behind it. The Y has been gracious enough to explain why I was wrong. Only in a limited set of circumstances is it valuable for the cop to be revealed - I hope that the town can createthat limited set of circumstances.
Again I feel I have addressed the accusations pointed against me as best I can. You all need to do as you feel is right.
If I am to be lynched today then I would like to get my suspicions as to who is mafia out in the open.
Obviously I suspect TWS. I am currently voting for him. I could be wrong. Again I need to back track and make as good an argument as I can.
I would assert that at least one of the people voting for me is mafia. If we had more patrticipation from the other players I would assert there were two as I am not lynched (yet).
At four votes I am very vulnerable. I think that means that the people who have been present that aren't voting for me but are present are town.
With that in mind I think we need a vote count. I'll do one myself but an official one would be nice
I revealed the information at the request of other players. No not necessarily a wise move. I have however explained my reasoning behind it. The Y has been gracious enough to explain why I was wrong. Only in a limited set of circumstances is it valuable for the cop to be revealed - I hope that the town can createthat limited set of circumstances.
Again I feel I have addressed the accusations pointed against me as best I can. You all need to do as you feel is right.
If I am to be lynched today then I would like to get my suspicions as to who is mafia out in the open.
Obviously I suspect TWS. I am currently voting for him. I could be wrong. Again I need to back track and make as good an argument as I can.
I would assert that at least one of the people voting for me is mafia. If we had more patrticipation from the other players I would assert there were two as I am not lynched (yet).
At four votes I am very vulnerable. I think that means that the people who have been present that aren't voting for me but are present are town.
With that in mind I think we need a vote count. I'll do one myself but an official one would be nice
You say you want the town to create that "limited set of circumstances". I'm wondering why you seem to want the cop to be out in the open so much. I really can't think of a reason a townie would be so fixed on this.
Suspicous of me, as you've said, I've defended, quite well I feel, so no need to cover that.
Frankly, from a strategy standpoint, if I were mafia I wouldn't vote for you at this point, as you already have enough votes that its indeed likely you'll be lynched. I agree, chances are one of the people who is voting for you is mafia, but you really can't clear those present and not voting in that regard.
And your unnoficial vote count:
Passdog-4(The Y, TWS, Paranoid, Navy Joe)
That Which Squeaks-1(Passdog)
Broomhead-1(Chimpanzee) D20-1 (Beaker)
If anyone not voting but has been lurking were mafia then I think they would be quite likely to chuck a vote on now. (Likely but not definitely).
If that isn't the case then I think that it is likely that two of the people who are currently voting for me are likely to be mafia and hoping one more will jump on so the thrid can take me out.
The Town: I've pretty well resigned myself to being lynched but I hope you take something out of these final posts.
@ Beaker: I think we're passed the "random vote" part and you're voting for somebody who'll be replaced anyway if he doesn't come forward and speak. Could you please give us your point of view so we we can keep going?
sry, ive been out of town until todaay im around, ive got 3 more pages to read, and a bunch of other stuff to do too ill get some stuff in in the next hour, hopefully
TWS: sorry,I thought I had answered that question.
A quick recap:
Initially it was not my intent to reveal who I suspected to be the cop.
I made a number of attempts to get the information from BroomHead
without revealing too much information.
Unfortunately my attempts were more blatant than I knew (due to a) different types of search engines [explorer vs firefox] and b) thinking I was more clever than I am (ie I stuffed up by defending myself too much thinking it would go away)).
Due to these failures it became apparent to all that I suspected BH to be the Cop A suspicion that was voiced by Paranoid.
Looking increasingly scummy I decided it would best if I were honest in pleading my case and tell all, thinking that the doc would be advantaged by my revealing the cop, allowing the cop to be protected (or have the facade of protection - see the posts on reverse psychology).
TWS: sorry,I thought I had answered that question.
A quick recap:
Initially it was not my intent to reveal who I suspected to be the cop.
I made a number of attempts to get the information from BroomHead
without revealing too much information.
Unfortunately my attempts were more blatant than I knew (due to a) different types of search engines [explorer vs firefox] and b) thinking I was more clever than I am (ie I stuffed up by defending myself too much thinking it would go away)).
Due to these failures it became apparent to all that I suspected BH to be the Cop A suspicion that was voiced by Paranoid.
Looking increasingly scummy I decided it would best if I were honest in pleading my case and tell all, thinking that the doc would be advantaged by my revealing the cop, allowing the cop to be protected (or have the facade of protection - see the posts on reverse psychology).
Does that answer your question?
Alrighty... still think you're scum, but at least I know what your defense is.
I've decided there is a way I might defend myself and that is by analysing my previous posts to show how NOT scummy I am.
Disclaimer: I am aware that you will all take this with a grain of salt - and that you might think I am just mafia trying to get out of trouble. Nevertheless I have to try.
Quote from Passdog »
To those who are concerned that we might accidently vote out a townie: You're right we should be concerned about people trying to bandwagon... only after we get to around three or four votes for one person. It takes six to lynch someone at this stage.
...
Some qualification on that last statement: I am working under the assumption that there are three mafioso. Two is not enough for eleven people, and four seems to be too many. That doesnt take into account any other roles that might exist like a Serial Killer (At any rate I can't see there being more than four antitown players).
What this means is that voting gets risky when we get to around four votes as two mafia to jump on the bandwagon at that stage is enough to lynch. Soooo... three votes is just about the pressure where people start feeling the pressure and begin revealing things. Anybody jumping on after that is likely to be scum.
I have quoted the above passage to indicate to people how I have actually tried to limit the votes on any one person before we are certain of their guilt.
The other intention I had when making this post was to make the mafia wary of jumping on the wagon after three votes - making a statement like the above is an attempt to hedge the Mafioso in by stopping them from bandwagoning to the lynch.
Nor do I claim to have information that makes me valuable. After a second reading of the thread I noticed something that would indicate BroomHead was town. It is there for anyone to see.
If true, in what way does that put BroomHead in any more danger than he was in before? The mafia know he's town without anything I say.
These paragraphs indicate my attempt to avoid saying that BroomHead is the cop. That was an attempt at redirection away from the concept that BH was the cop and was a mere townie. Paranoid ruined that for me.
A good idea, and you're making me think.... for now I still believe you're just a mafioso who made some mistakes in his first game. If I'm wrong, and you do get lynched, then I apologize, but you just seem scummy. Keep doing what you're doing, perhaps If you prove enough to me, then I'll unvote.
I hadn't considered a scenario where there wasn't a doc - if that is the case then I've screwed up in a major fashion.
However if there is a doc and everyone does think one character is the cop then the natural assumption is for the mafia to go around the doc and hit another right? If that is the case then a discerning doc might not protect the cop, realising that the mafia will think the cop is protected.
By manipulating the mafia that way the doc cuts down the odds from a 1 in 11 chance of getting it right to a 1 in 10.
Kinda like reverse psychology. But not.
While this post reveals little about my honest intentions it is an accurate representation of my views on how the cop should be treated, and the advantages of revealing the cop.
While some strong arguments have been made against this method of play by a few people, eg the Y, and I am starting to beleive that it was a mistake to reveal the cop (if he is indeed the cop) so early, I maintain that it is a solid tactic for the cop to be known to the town.
a) for the doctor reasons described above
and b) because the town knowing the identity of the cop means that they can trust the information he presents when advocating a lynching. Knowing someone is the cop allows us to trust their advise and utilise it against the mafia (I should have thought of this one hours ago.)
I think it is time to address some of the claims made against me by others. Here's navyJoe's take on me and my responses:
Quote from NavyJoe »
This was mistake 1. You wanted people to reveal something that might hint at their role....super mafia early move
Role information is valuable to the town as well. The cop and the doc can use such info to better inform their night decisions. Further such revelations might sometimes lead to a mafioso contradicting himself and allowing a good lynch.
Quote from NavyJoe »
Trying to get an early bandwagon. While this may seem innocent, it's not. Mafia uses early bandwagon techniques to try and "flush" out role information.
The town can also use an early bandwagon to flush out the mafia. exactly my intent. It isn't guns that are evil it is the people who use them to shoot people that are - the bandwagon is similarly a neutral tool.
Quote from NavyJoe »
Then you reveal that you believe Broomhead is the cop, a move by a desperate mafia member. This allows the rest of the mafia to know who the cop is........NOT A SMART MOVE.
I'm going to issue a FOS to beaker for the fewest posts.
I believe I have already countered this argument in my explanation of why I let everyone know who the cop was. Again a quick recap.
*it was never my original intent to out the cop
* I made poor decisions in my investigations that made it too obvious to other people aound the place
*after another had openly stated my suspicion I confirmed it using the reasoning that the town could turn my mistake into a good thing (see above whole Doc/Cop scenario
to me, Passdog seems to have slipped up and now is trying to cover up the trail
he tried to defend himself by saying that he was attempting to limit votes
that looks like a ploy to hide his true intentions
also, your defense (post 141) seems to be trying to push attention away from the fact that you were pushing for a cop claim without us knowing if we had a doc
you are also saying that you might be giving an advantage to the town, but i think that role info is worth a lot more to the mafia than the town
i agree here that passdog seems to be the best lynch so vote:passdog
@navy: i was out of town, so i didnt have a computer, thats why i hadnt posted
For all of those that havent voted already:
Day 1 won't end untill some one dies. I can't prove Passdog is mafia, yet I believe he is bad for the town either way.
His line of thinking is naive if he believes revealing power roles will helps us all. Furthermore, he wants us to rely on unproven information (such as believing to the first one appearing to be a cop).
I call people to help us move the game. We can't have a desition if we need 6 player do deside anything and have only 5 active ones (and one of them isn't going to vote for himself).
That's a crap response from someone who purports to be town - losing poor town members is never going to be preferable to killing mafioso.
Attempting to justify my death by saying I'm a poor player anyway is the scummiest thing either of you have said.
Further maybe you would like to wait the game out before you determine I've played poorly. The town might advantage from the things I've said.
I believe you are mafia. PPDTL is there not to justify your death, but because if you get lynched, and you're town, I will not feel guilty about voting for you. I feel you've played poorly so far, whether or not your mafia. I think you're mafia, my vote is for you. If you're town and manage to give us something, then I'll be thankful, but still not guilty about voting for you.
That was the scariest moment for me yet. I thought I'd finally got six votes and then realised that beaker voted twice. Phe!
I implore you all, re assess what I've said. Also think outside the box and consider why I might want to have role info revealed (outside the idea that I'm mafioso).
I have one last chance.
unvote That Which Squeaks
I've finished reading all your posts. i was just clutching at straws.
Despite this I am definitely not mafia.
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Uh, yeah, just realized I meant 1/7 Chance that the Mafia would hit the doc.... what do you mean for 1/10? I can't think of anything.
Hahahaha... now we're really over analysing. I guess I shouldn't complain as I started it.
Seems to me that you've slipped a little there TWS. You know there are only three mafioso don't you?
unFoS TWS vote That Which Squeaks.
I meant that the doc would increase his chance of protecting the right person. The Y has made some pretty good arguments as to why that wouldn't work however. reverse reverse reverse psychology and what not.
Yes I slipped, in that I totally forgot what I was trying to prove. And you're the one I got three mafia from, your logic makes sense, two mafia would take too long, four mafia would be too many. More redirection?
doesn't anyone have any sense of flavor, i thought we would be taking, "like, ya, *chews gum* so totally" but i guess i was wrong. i'll be able to get a full post to everyone one when i get home tonight, but to adress the short matters now, i really liked how only 3 out of 11 are really posting and jumping on the band wagon again, and agin, on diffrent people the whole time. wooo a 3 person bandow wagon. i bet they're all mafia and just jerkin us around. i will talk to everyone in depth about my role tonight-or not talk. p.s. i was kidding about the the all 3 of them being mafia.
My Employer ID is: 31946
mmmm....cookies
Just a recap of why I suspect TWS:
1. Early random vote swapped quickly for a bandwagon (which admittedly I started)
2. Very quick to change to the next flavour of the thread (me)
3. Too confident as to the numbers of the mafia
I'll go back and read TWS's posts and will then try to elaborate.
This was mistake 1. You wanted people to reveal something that might hint at their role....super mafia early move
Trying to get an early bandwagon. While this may seem innocent, it's not. Mafia uses early bandwagon techniques to try and "flush" out role information.
Then you reveal that you believe Broomhead is the cop, a move by a desperate mafia member. This allows the rest of the mafia to know who the cop is........NOT A SMART MOVE.
I'm going to issue a FOS to beaker for the fewest posts.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Redirection from someone at least four people feel is a mafia is not neccesarily a good idea. However, if you feel I am scum, feel free to post your analysis.
1) I jumped on the bandwagon you started, admittedly scummy, but I jumped off just as quick, after growing suspicous of you... the person who many people feel has acted the most scummy.
2) If you didn't notice, I was the third person to vote for you, after you acted very suspicous (at least in my eyes). Hardly bandwagoning on you.
3) Too confident? Once again, I got the numbers from you, which are the only numbers that make sense. Yes, I am confident in them, because the logic you came up with seem infalliable, unless we're dealing with bastard moddery, which I highly doubt in a noob mafia game.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
I revealed the information at the request of other players. No not necessarily a wise move. I have however explained my reasoning behind it. The Y has been gracious enough to explain why I was wrong. Only in a limited set of circumstances is it valuable for the cop to be revealed - I hope that the town can createthat limited set of circumstances.
Again I feel I have addressed the accusations pointed against me as best I can. You all need to do as you feel is right.
If I am to be lynched today then I would like to get my suspicions as to who is mafia out in the open.
Obviously I suspect TWS. I am currently voting for him. I could be wrong. Again I need to back track and make as good an argument as I can.
I would assert that at least one of the people voting for me is mafia. If we had more patrticipation from the other players I would assert there were two as I am not lynched (yet).
At four votes I am very vulnerable. I think that means that the people who have been present that aren't voting for me but are present are town.
With that in mind I think we need a vote count. I'll do one myself but an official one would be nice
You say you want the town to create that "limited set of circumstances". I'm wondering why you seem to want the cop to be out in the open so much. I really can't think of a reason a townie would be so fixed on this.
Suspicous of me, as you've said, I've defended, quite well I feel, so no need to cover that.
Frankly, from a strategy standpoint, if I were mafia I wouldn't vote for you at this point, as you already have enough votes that its indeed likely you'll be lynched. I agree, chances are one of the people who is voting for you is mafia, but you really can't clear those present and not voting in that regard.
And your unnoficial vote count:
Passdog-4(The Y, TWS, Paranoid, Navy Joe)
That Which Squeaks-1(Passdog)
Broomhead-1(Chimpanzee)
D20-1 (Beaker)
Anyway it pretty well went like this:
Unofficial Vote Count:
Passdog 4 (navyjoe, TWS, The Y, Paranoid)
TWS 1 (Passdog)
BroomHead 1 (Chimpanzee)
Those not voting but present: BroomHead, Beaker
If anyone not voting but has been lurking were mafia then I think they would be quite likely to chuck a vote on now. (Likely but not definitely).
If that isn't the case then I think that it is likely that two of the people who are currently voting for me are likely to be mafia and hoping one more will jump on so the thrid can take me out.
The Town: I've pretty well resigned myself to being lynched but I hope you take something out of these final posts.
I noticed beaker was lurking before and tried to prompt a response but it hasn't worke yet...
A quick recap:
Initially it was not my intent to reveal who I suspected to be the cop.
I made a number of attempts to get the information from BroomHead
without revealing too much information.
Unfortunately my attempts were more blatant than I knew (due to a) different types of search engines [explorer vs firefox] and b) thinking I was more clever than I am (ie I stuffed up by defending myself too much thinking it would go away)).
Due to these failures it became apparent to all that I suspected BH to be the Cop A suspicion that was voiced by Paranoid.
Looking increasingly scummy I decided it would best if I were honest in pleading my case and tell all, thinking that the doc would be advantaged by my revealing the cop, allowing the cop to be protected (or have the facade of protection - see the posts on reverse psychology).
Does that answer your question?
d24478667-(Beaker)
Broomhead-(Chimpanzee)
Passdog-(The Y, That Which Squeaks, Paranoid, NavyJoe)
That Which Squeaks-(Passdog)
Not Voting
d24478667, bertrand, mystery meat of doom, BroomHead
[The Family]
Alrighty... still think you're scum, but at least I know what your defense is.
What if I unvote you? will you return the favour?:tongue2:
Sorry to say that, but that's really low...
First off, yes, I'm afraid theres not much more that you can say to me. You've acted scummy enough that I feel you're lying.
Second off, no.
You don't joke with digital people's lives!
Disclaimer: I am aware that you will all take this with a grain of salt - and that you might think I am just mafia trying to get out of trouble. Nevertheless I have to try.
I have quoted the above passage to indicate to people how I have actually tried to limit the votes on any one person before we are certain of their guilt.
The other intention I had when making this post was to make the mafia wary of jumping on the wagon after three votes - making a statement like the above is an attempt to hedge the Mafioso in by stopping them from bandwagoning to the lynch.
These paragraphs indicate my attempt to avoid saying that BroomHead is the cop. That was an attempt at redirection away from the concept that BH was the cop and was a mere townie. Paranoid ruined that for me.
While this post reveals little about my honest intentions it is an accurate representation of my views on how the cop should be treated, and the advantages of revealing the cop.
While some strong arguments have been made against this method of play by a few people, eg the Y, and I am starting to beleive that it was a mistake to reveal the cop (if he is indeed the cop) so early, I maintain that it is a solid tactic for the cop to be known to the town.
a) for the doctor reasons described above
and b) because the town knowing the identity of the cop means that they can trust the information he presents when advocating a lynching. Knowing someone is the cop allows us to trust their advise and utilise it against the mafia (I should have thought of this one hours ago.)
Furthermore, why shouldn't a mafioso claim being the cop? How can you asure the one saying he's the cop really is?
Exactly. I'm sorry Passdog, but the fact that you keep wanting cop revealed just screams mafia to me. My vote stays where it is.
I believe the saying is poor play deserves to lose. You seem like scum, if you're not then don't act like one.
Role information is valuable to the town as well. The cop and the doc can use such info to better inform their night decisions. Further such revelations might sometimes lead to a mafioso contradicting himself and allowing a good lynch.
The town can also use an early bandwagon to flush out the mafia. exactly my intent. It isn't guns that are evil it is the people who use them to shoot people that are - the bandwagon is similarly a neutral tool.
I believe I have already countered this argument in my explanation of why I let everyone know who the cop was. Again a quick recap.
*it was never my original intent to out the cop
* I made poor decisions in my investigations that made it too obvious to other people aound the place
*after another had openly stated my suspicion I confirmed it using the reasoning that the town could turn my mistake into a good thing (see above whole Doc/Cop scenario
That's a crap response from someone who purports to be town - losing poor town members is never going to be preferable to killing mafioso.
Attempting to justify my death by saying I'm a poor player anyway is the scummiest thing either of you have said.
Further maybe you would like to wait the game out before you determine I've played poorly. The town might advantage from the things I've said.
to me, Passdog seems to have slipped up and now is trying to cover up the trail
he tried to defend himself by saying that he was attempting to limit votes
that looks like a ploy to hide his true intentions
also, your defense (post 141) seems to be trying to push attention away from the fact that you were pushing for a cop claim without us knowing if we had a doc
you are also saying that you might be giving an advantage to the town, but i think that role info is worth a lot more to the mafia than the town
i agree here that passdog seems to be the best lynch so vote:passdog
@navy: i was out of town, so i didnt have a computer, thats why i hadnt posted
also, on a side note, where is d# and bertrand??
Day 1 won't end untill some one dies. I can't prove Passdog is mafia, yet I believe he is bad for the town either way.
His line of thinking is naive if he believes revealing power roles will helps us all. Furthermore, he wants us to rely on unproven information (such as believing to the first one appearing to be a cop).
I call people to help us move the game. We can't have a desition if we need 6 player do deside anything and have only 5 active ones (and one of them isn't going to vote for himself).
I believe you are mafia. PPDTL is there not to justify your death, but because if you get lynched, and you're town, I will not feel guilty about voting for you. I feel you've played poorly so far, whether or not your mafia. I think you're mafia, my vote is for you. If you're town and manage to give us something, then I'll be thankful, but still not guilty about voting for you.
vote: passdog
You need to unvote first, your currently voting for d20
I implore you all, re assess what I've said. Also think outside the box and consider why I might want to have role info revealed (outside the idea that I'm mafioso).
I have one last chance.
unvote That Which Squeaks
I've finished reading all your posts. i was just clutching at straws.
Despite this I am definitely not mafia.