Welcome to Random Mafia. A freak wormhole opened up in space (and yes, coincidentally, it was a nothingth of an inch thick, a nothingth of an inch wide, and quite a lot of millions of lightyears from end to end). Along with a hundred thousand lightly fried eggs, and completely unnoticed in them, a score of Personalities emerged from deep space and fell to the planet Pogril, where virtually the entire planet had recently died of starvation. The lone survivor of this famine lived quite a few weeks longer than most of these Personalities, but never actually noticed them, since he was too busy upping his cholesterol count into the 4-digit range.
These Personalities, being rather astonished to find themselves in such a predicament, all decide to find out which of them is responsible and bury them under a mountain of eggs.
Just as soon as you all wake up.
The living:
3-Hawkeye7 6-RafaelK 7-CropCircles
8-silicon
10-You Are Not Pro(newbie#1) 11-Zoobamaphooza 12-Puzzle 13-Verbal 14-draygn_mage 15-chamber(newbie#3)
16-jcsuperstar(I believe you) 17-Kenji 19-magicianofthought
20-Turbo164
The eggwhipped: 2-Musashi-Mafia
5-StevieT92-SK
1-Axelrod-Town
4-Fayul-Town 9-swinkee-Town 18-Azrael-mafia
REMEMBER:
Mafia is a game that requires active participation from its players. Don't sign up if you're not going to be active. If you're going to be gone for any reason, let me know in advance, although if you're planning to be gone for more than a week, you may be replaced instead.
2. At the end of the day, the player with the highest number of votes will be the lynchee. The only way for the town to get a No Lynch is for a majority to vote that way, or else, for nobody to vote at all. If there is a tie at the end of the day, then day will continue until someone has a higher number of votes, at which point it will end immediately with that player's death.
3. Votes must be in bold, or an obvious attempt at such, or they will not count. Typos will not prevent your vote from counting, as long as I notice it, but if you just vote random player in your post without any attempt at bolding it, I won't count it, ever.
4. Do not communicate at night or day unless your role PM says otherwise.
5. Do not quote my PM's or I may have to modkill you.
7. You may vote No lynch, and a majority of these votes will end the day without a death.
8. Please do not edit or delete your posts no matter how stupid a mistake you made. This will get you modkilled, without exception.
9. Once you’re dead, you’re dead, so stop posting please.
10. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period, please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Else, you may be prodded.
11. If you have a night choice to make, it is due by the posted deadline. I will not wait for you – if you do not submit a choice to me, tough! No choice will be made. You will receive a reminder one day before the deadline if you haven’t submitted your choice. Night will not end before the deadline to give the mafia time to talk.
13. Once the final vote has been cast I honestly don't care if you still talk. I mean, who's going to just silently walk away after their town just mobbed and killed someone?
14. If you are requesting a mod prod or vote count can you Bold your request so that I can see it more clearly.
15. I want this game to keep moving so I expect everyone to post at least once every two days on average and if you don't you may receive a prod on the third day if you still haven't posted.
16. HAVE FUN!!!!!
17. Lastly and most importantly. Respect me and the rest of the players, I have not had to modkill anyone yet, and I don't intend to.
Be aware that there may be some real world references that you may disagree with in the flavor of the game. That's life. If you don't like it, delete it out of the post and resend it to yourself, or something. Most of the time, the flavor has very little impact on game play. Most of the time...
It is now Night 0. If you haven't confirmed, please do so. If you have a night ability other than a kill or an investigation that you wish to use, please make your choice and send it in.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Oh god, this is going to be nuts. I won't even hazard a guess at what's going on at this point.
Looking forward to a good game?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
One of you got into some trouble with the Jaws of Life, but the combined efforts of several of you managed to avoid serious consequences.
Other than that, not much happened. Day begins...now!
20 players, 11 to lynch!
Hmm. Random mafia, indeed. Only thing that really sticks out to me at first glance from the mod's description is the "Jaws of Life". Unless I'm mistaken, that's what firefighters use to get people out of wrecked cars, right? Looks a little odd.
Also, Carrion Pigeons, can we get some confirmation of roles and allegiance for Puzzle and other dead folks, or are we going to be left in the dark? Third, it looks like one of our killing groups is aiming for high-profile posters (assuming Puzzle was a townie, and not a victim of crossfire), so watch yourselves guys.
Lastly, as we gain more information about the setup we might also want to keep in mind that the mafia/SK might have been concerned about a "cunning plan" being created, and chose Puzzle for that reason. Something to keep in the back of our minds, just in case, though I have a feeling a mass claim as we've done in the past won't do us much good this time.
Is Puzzle dead? I actually wasn't assuming that from the statement "his soul has been stolen." The player list doesn't have him as dead? And it's still 11 to lynch.
Also, and this is neither here nor there, but I am against in principle roles that nerf another player from posting entirely. That's no fun for anyone.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Is Puzzle dead? I actually wasn't assuming that from the statement "his soul has been stolen." The player list doesn't have him as dead? And it's still 11 to lynch.
:confused3:
Carrion, can we get some clarification on this?
Quote from Axelrod »
Also, and this is neither here nor there, but I am against in principle roles that nerf another player from posting entirely. That's no fun for anyone.
Agreed. Guess there's not much we can do about it this game, though.
The odd thing about the post-blocking seems to be that if it's a mafia ability, they picked a very strange target for it. Why pick Chambers, instead of Axel, Puzzle, myself, etc.? It's not conventional for the town to get post-blocking abilities (it makes very little sense design-wise, since the mafia are supposed to be the ones trying to limit information, and not the town), but perhaps Carrion has decided to try something odd, or use it as a handicap on the town. At any rate, if it's a town-aligned player, I'd suggest you hold your fire if at all possible, or at least try to minimize the damage and pick different targets from night to night.
Another explanation is that the mafia could be using that ability on one of their own in an attempt to clear him and/or give him an excuse to lurk and remain an unknown quantity. If Carrion is following conventional mod wisdom in his ability design, that's a possibility we'll want to keep in mind, although we'll definitely want to hear from Chambers if we can manage it before doing anything rash.
Puzzle is not dead, and he is free to post and vote and do all that stuff.
Any comments you have about the setup ro specific abilities will be ignored by me, no matter how much I want to comment on them. If you want to complain, feel free to do it at the end of the game when you see what the really stupid stuff I designed was all about.
It's pretty early still, but I'm going to post a vote count anyway.
Vote Count Zoob- (StevieT92) StevieT92- (swinkee)
EDIT: I should also correct myself and say that it's actually only 10 to lynch, since chamber doesn't have a vote today. Sorry about that.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Oh yeah? I'm also against roles that steal other people's souls.
So there.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I like Az' idea that the non-posting idea may have been used on chambers to give a mafia a reason to lurk. But since we can't get any information from chambers today, that doesn't really help us... yet. I hope the mod plans to send him a prodding PM at the end of this day, though. That sort of role is a great way to make someone forget they're in the game
Certainly be interesting to hear from Puzzle.
My suspicion re: the jaws of life is that it's a role (roleblocker ability, maybe? Who knows in this game) that went for someone who was being protected by multiple people.
Oh, one last thing- if you play Mafia on News under a different name to here, could you let me know?
Oh, one last thing- if you play Mafia on News under a different name to here, could you let me know?
On News I am known as Hawkeye7.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Oh, one last thing- if you play Mafia on News under a different name to here, could you let me know?
On News I am known as Hawkeye7.
Oh Really?
Well, my dear Axelrod, I beg leave to submit that, I find I am not entirely convinced by your assertion. So much so that, I very much suspect you to be jesting.
It is to laugh.
Quote from carrion pigeons »
OK, all. Day has started!
chamber may not post today.
Puzzle's soul was stolen.
One of you got into some trouble with the Jaws of Life, but the combined efforts of several of you managed to avoid serious consequences.
Other than that, not much happened. Day begins...now!
20 players, 10 to lynch!
Quote from RafaelK »
My suspicion re: the jaws of life is that it's a role (roleblocker ability, maybe? Who knows in this game) that went for someone who was being protected by multiple people.
Protected or maybe targetted by multiple abilities of other sorts.
It says the combined efforts of several of players.
Perhaps there are players who know exactly what this means.
I've already PM'd carrion pigeons on this, I will be on vaction for three days next week. Tuesday to Friday. I should be able to post in the AM Tuesday and in the PM on Friday.
At this point in the game I doubt that it will detract from the game.
I certainly hope it won't.
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I wouldn't assume that this is due to a mafia ability. I wouldn't assume this is due to anyone's ability at all, though it seems likely. I wouldn't assume much of anything.
Quote from carrion pigeons »
Puzzle's soul was stolen.
This means something. Damned if I know what.
Quote from carrion pigeons »
One of you got into some trouble with the Jaws of Life, but the combined efforts of several of you managed to avoid serious consequences.
I take this to mean that someone almost died, but was prevented by the efforts of several of us. But this is strange, because Carrion said in post 1,
Quote from carrion pigeons »
It is now Night 0. If you haven't confirmed, please do so. If you have a night ability other than a kill or an investigation that you wish to use, please make your choice and send it in.
which leads me to believe that there were not supposed to be nightkills on night 1. Or maybe the mafia got a kill and no one else did. So thanks to whoever may have prevented someone from dying, I think.
I wish everyone a good game. And sorry Puzzle, about your soul and all. Do you miss it?
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With it being "Random Mafia" and all, the role-block could very well have been 'randomly' targetted (ie, the blocker did not mean to block the person he did). Puzzle probably was specifically targetted tho, given his tendency to be rather important in games...
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Quote from Sir Blakely »
turbo...my god. you have reached Uber-Nerd-Dom (TM).
On the Jaws of Life thing, I think someone's just clumsy. Or maybe the mafia got to attempt a kill. I don't care to figure it out, somebody else do it. I don't care who.
chamber not posting is obviously one of two things. Either somebody has a role that lets them do it, or as part of the rules of the game, Carrion randomly selects somebody each night who can't post. After all, it is random mafia.
as for Puzzle's soul being stolen, this may be mafia activity, and it may not be. Clearly the mafia was not allowed to post this past not, as stated in carrion's post. However, stealing a soul may be some funky mafia ability that does... something else. Again I'm not sure. It is Random Mafia. (yay for redundancy)
and in regards to the "jaws of life", well, I just have no clue.
It gives me the impression of a Cult thing, but it wouldn't really be sensible to tell the town about recruiting so openly.
What is a Cult thing? (forgive my ignorance)
Quote from Kenji »
Soul being stolen? Sounds like some sort of slow killing sk to me...
Do you lose your soul before you die? I don't think that makes sense.
Quote from Kenji »
Could the not being able to post is a drawback for an ability? So chambers did something Night 0 and now has to pay for whatever it was...
That's an interesting theory. Seems possible.
Sorry for the double post...
Quote from Zoobamaphooza »
Clearly the mafia was not allowed to post this past not, as stated in carrion's post.
Hmmm? What does this mean?
Quote from Zoobamaphooza »
and in regards to the "jaws of life", well, I just have no clue.
Obviously I can't be sure, but I definitely think the "jaws of life" are meant to be taken metaphorically. As in "someone almost died." A fancy way of saying that.
Right now the only player that really stands out as far as I can tell is Axlerod, who has posted 4 times, but hasn't said anything worth saying. He's clearly spaming so he can get a higher post count then me. . . well this doesn't seem odd, as there isn't much to be said, but vote Axlerod This is random mafia, so random votes should be OK
Actually the only thing that have been talked about are game set up and Things about the game set up, this leads me to think it is day one. I'm super at logic.
Actually, the more I think about it the more it seems that people are bringing complaintes against CP to look por-town. Or they might really be pro-town and be trying to complain about a role that they are against, in principal.
Not much else to say. Later
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A "Cult" is an alternate win condition group sometimes used in mafia games. There is a "recruiter" who picks someone each night to join the Cult (if he picks a mafia, it generally fails). They then become able to communicate at night like mafia and masons (this may not always be true). The Cult wins when it outnumbers everyone else. As a drawback, usually if the Cult leader is killed, all the current members also die.
Crippled_Fist is correct that it wouldn't make sense for the name of the person recruited to the Cult to be posted right out in the open, so that's clearly not what is going on. Which is not to say that there isn't a Cult or a Cult-like group in this game.
My own initial and very prematute thought was of a role with some kind of alternate win condition based on the number of souls he can "steal." Or possibly a Role that gains abilities based on how many souls it steals. That could be a mafia role or non-mafia role. There is a slight chance Puzzle will be able to tell us more about it, but I tend to doubt.
I also wonder why Chamber's name was mentioned as being affected by something during the night, as was Puzzle's, but the person involved in the Jaws of Life incident remains anonymous. What's so special about him? (Or her).
Additional idle speculation: Chamber was nerfed by:
(A) A town player who wanted to try out his ability, but not on someone prominant. Chamber could be anything in that case.
(B) A mafia player. Why would the mafia nerf someone no one knows? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Or the other hand, nerfing a fellow mafia to excuse his lurking does make sense, so if this is a mafia ability, it makes more sense for Chamber to be mafia. That is by no means a sure thing, however, just a logical possibility.
(C) His own ability, which makes him lose his ability to post next day. It had better be a doozy of an ability if that's the case. I doubt this one.
(D) A random game element. As in, someone gets nerfed everyday. I doubt this one too.
Seems to me the most likely thing is "A" at this point.
As some people know, I'm a big fan of random speculation in the early game, and I have been known to make accurate guesses in the past, but it also tends to make people argue with me, since no one else is saying anything worth arguing about. So please don't criticize me for speculating. Criticize the logic all you want, however.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Maybe "Losing your soul" is also a kind of posting restriction, only for the rest of the game, as opposed to Chamber's which is (likely) one day only? Sure, that would make the game suck extremely a lot for Puzzle, but, at least it's a possibility to throw out there.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
The soul stealing thing might not actually affect anything, but rather be something to throw us off. Or it could be one of the complicated roles CP mentioned, in which case we probably won't be able to guess what it means.
I'd like to hope that our townies would be smart enough to not "nerf" a random player, so maybe it was one of the new players. It really seems like a scum ability to me though. Maybe it was a SK who is new to the site and isn't aware of who the good players are.
Additional idle speculation: Chamber was nerfed by:
(A) A town player who wanted to try out his ability, but not on someone prominant. Chamber could be anything in that case.
(B) A mafia player. Why would the mafia nerf someone no one knows? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Or the other hand, nerfing a fellow mafia to excuse his lurking does make sense, so if this is a mafia ability, it makes more sense for Chamber to be mafia. That is by no means a sure thing, however, just a logical possibility.
(C) His own ability, which makes him lose his ability to post next day. It had better be a doozy of an ability if that's the case. I doubt this one.
(D) A random game element. As in, someone gets nerfed everyday. I doubt this one too.
Seems to me the most likely thing is "A" at this point.
If you think (A) is the most logical possibility, we may want to ask for any townie who blocked him to step forward and claim responsibility for that. If no one does, then we'll be able to narrow it down to B, C, and D, and question him once he (hopefully) resurfaces tomorrow. It risks exposing a minor role early in the game, but it could very well help us take down a scum player on day one or two. Thoughts?
Well, there is a fifth option: Someone might have the ability to control or steal or redirect other peoples abilities. So if there is a townie who blocked chamber, they may not even know about it!
Good to see you 'alive' Puzzle :grin2: It is odd that nobody is completely dead; looks like we have some lucky docs (or the soul steal is a delayed kill or something)
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Quote from Sir Blakely »
turbo...my god. you have reached Uber-Nerd-Dom (TM).
To me, it doesn't make sense that the SK forgot it was a no-kill night. If he did, wouldn't carrion just say "sorry, you don't get to kill?" Why would that result in the loss of your soul?
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It is now Night 0. If you haven't confirmed, please do so. If you have a night ability other than a kill or an investigation that you wish to use, please make your choice and send it in.
Quote from Puzzle »
*sigh* : here is the confirmation that the SK may have forgotten that Night 0 was a no-kill night...
I didn't realize that it was a no-kill night. I sent in my night decision (which WASN'T a kill) before he edited that in, so I just assumed that the SK/Mafia had already made their kill choices and he was just reminding other people to do their stuff.
Or did he say it was no-kill somewhere else and I'm just blind?
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Quote from Sir Blakely »
turbo...my god. you have reached Uber-Nerd-Dom (TM).
Uhh, what about it was a No-Kill night that the SK forgot, but that set off the Jaws-of-Life thing?
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Puzzle, did you receive a PM notifiying you that had happened, and describing the event? Is there any more information you can give us, at all? It seems strange that you would know nothing more than the rest of us about what happened to you.
Awww man... So we have nothing to go on? But that makes playing Mafia really hard... /me sulks
Well I'll just have to sort that out then...
Discussion time! Vote: Chamber
Do you think Chamber brought the restriction upon him/herself of did someone impose upon Chmaber?
The easiest way to figure that out will be to wait until tomorrow. By then, we'll have hopefully narrowed down the possibilities to either "B" or "C". That is, we'll hopefully be able to tell whether or not a townie targeted him, and if the post restriction is a random game effect. We'll also be able to ask Chamber if it was his own ability, or someone else's. All things considered, the town gets the most information from waiting, and the mafia would have the most incentive to put him to an early death before we can get to the bottom of this. We really shouldn't be voting for him yet until we get a better idea of what's going on, and until we can get Chamber's input on this.
FOS KenjiVoting for someone this early is usually just to put pressure on them to explain suspicious actions. Since he can't post, the only thing voting for him would accomplish would be lynching someone we know nothing about...only Mafia would want that.
Granted the mafia could have blocked their own mafia to pull suspicion off him, but the odds of that do not warrent voting right now.
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Quote from Sir Blakely »
turbo...my god. you have reached Uber-Nerd-Dom (TM).
Awww man... So we have nothing to go on? But that makes playing Mafia really hard... /me sulks
Well I'll just have to sort that out then...
Discussion time! Vote: Chamber
Do you think Chamber brought the restriction upon him/herself of did someone impose upon Chmaber?
That's really... bad reasoning.
It'd be stupid to kill off a person who has now way of defending themselves, and if Chamber has any useful information to give us tommorow, we should defenitely wait to hear what he has to say.
I'm going to go ahead and FOS:Kenji, just because you seem a bit eager to kill someone who could be useful.
Kenji, exactly what kind of discussion are you trying to start? And how does voting Chamber help?
On the issue of whether the person who targeted Chamber should come forward (assuming he didn't do it to himself), I'm trying to think how the mafia would handle such a town member. Would that be a dangerous ability to them? Not really. Certainly not at this stage. Heck, mafia would probably like to get targeted this early so they don't have to do anything that could look suspicious. So if a townie did this he's relatively safe coming forward to say so. But just because someone comes forward doesn't mean they are town. If we demand that this role come forward, a mafia could come forward just as easily as a townie. I'm not sure what we learn.
The ability gets slightly more useful later in the game, but even then, it's not very. What's the best case scenario? We hit someone we "know" is a mafia and prevent them from posting or voting for the day? If we "knew" they were a mafia, we would just lynch them anyway.
Perhaps there are other rammifiactions to the role or ability that we know nothing about. For now, I say we just wait for Chamber who might be able to clarify something tomorrow.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Kenji, exactly what kind of discussion are you trying to start? And how does voting Chamber help?
On the issue of whether the person who targeted Chamber should come forward (assuming he didn't do it to himself), I'm trying to think how the mafia would handle such a town member. Would that be a dangerous ability to them? Not really. Certainly not at this stage. Heck, mafia would probably like to get targeted this early so they don't have to do anything that could look suspicious. So if a townie did this he's relatively safe coming forward to say so. But just because someone comes forward doesn't mean they are town. If we demand that this role come forward, a mafia could come forward just as easily as a townie. I'm not sure what we learn.
The ability gets slightly more useful later in the game, but even then, it's not very. What's the best case scenario? We hit someone we "know" is a mafia and prevent them from posting or voting for the day? If we "knew" they were a mafia, we would just lynch them anyway.
Perhaps there are other rammifiactions to the role or ability that we know nothing about. For now, I say we just wait for Chamber who might be able to clarify something tomorrow.
You're right: if someone comes forward and claims, we don't learn much of anything new (and as you mentioned, the consequences won't be very dangerous for the town). But if no one comes forward, and the mafia decide not to risk drawing attention to themselves with a false claim, then we will be able to eliminate one of the most plausible explanations behind what happened to Chamber, and get that much closer to figuring out what's at the bottom of this.
Yep, I received the info that my soul had been stolen but nope, there was nothing added to that.
So, in other words, you lost your soul, but feel no different. I knew it.
If we call for the role that targeted Chamber to come forward and no one does, we haven't learned anything. At least, we haven't learned anything we can really use. What would we say? We would say that this means the role is probably a mafia role. Which doesn't tell us anything about Chamber. We have already mentioned that he easily could have been hit by a fellow mafia. But it doesn't mean he is mafia, and I wouldn't vote to lynch him on that kind of basis.
If the role does come forward, then we still don't know if it's mafia or town. But the mafia do. We have then given them free information, and what have we really learned?
I still say wait for Chamber. If he can't tell us anything, well, we can revisit the issue.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
If we call for the role that targeted Chamber to come forward and no one does, we haven't learned anything. At least, we haven't learned anything we can really use. What would we say? We would say that this means the role is probably a mafia role. Which doesn't tell us anything about Chamber. We have already mentioned that he easily could have been hit by a fellow mafia. But it doesn't mean he is mafia, and I wouldn't vote to lynch him on that kind of basis.
If the role does come forward, then we still don't know if it's mafia or town. But the mafia do. We have then given them free information, and what have we really learned?
I still say wait for Chamber. If he can't tell us anything, well, we can revisit the issue.
It may be that not only is Chamber unable to post today, but that he was unable to do anything last night. There were no kills night zero. That could be by design and it was not allowed or it is possible that player abilities stopped/prevented it from happening.
Regardless, it is a very bad idea to target Chamber for lynching right now, as has already been pointed out by others.
If he is lynched we will learn his alignment, but little about what happened to him.
Quote from Puzzle »
I'm back, you may applaude.
I know nothing more than most of you about that soul thievery, guys. Just that it doesn't sound nice but something tells me that we shouldn't jump to conclusions.
This could be a way to recruit me, gain my (if existant) abilities or force me to do things later (if applicable) but I haven't been recruited as far as I know. I am unable to prove it, though, and it may be a delayed effect.
Additionally, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that it is a townie ability : inspection, duplication,... although it's not the most likely.
Night 0 was with no kill, which is something a SK may have forgotten (not mafia, who are several). This could have been a kill that was cancelled.
We should know more if it happens again later.
Concerning a cunning plan(TM), I fear it may have to wait a bit given the (setup ?).
This is very interesting.
Your soul is stolen, but there is no restriction on your posting or voting. You receive a PM to that effect, but with no other details.
What would someone gain by stealing another players soul?
Puzzle, did the pm indicate how long your soul would be in someone else's possession?
Has anyone played in a mafia game with an ability like that before?
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I still feel that we gain nothing by calling for the "posting-blocker" to come forward. First of all, we'll immediately be faced with the question of whether or not the person who came forward is telling the truth, or is a mafia jumping on an opportunity to make themself look innocent. However, if we follow this line of thinking, whoever claims to have this ability is immediately going to become suspicious, because, as I said before, it's a good opportunity for a mafia to look innocent. Therefore, if someone does come forward, we're faced with the hard choice of that person possibly being mafia, or otherwise being a useful ability that we'll want to keep around.
Therefore, I think it's better that we sepcifically ask that the person with this ability does not come forward, so we're not forced into this hard choice. (becuase chances are, the mafia wouldn't actually claim this role, as we've talked about it in such depth. Then again, they may take it a step further, and since I have now assumed that the mafia would never claim this role, they claim the role and look innocent. Then we end up with this confusing cicle of reasoning that really gets us nowhere.)
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
If we call for the role that targeted Chamber to come forward and no one does, we haven't learned anything. At least, we haven't learned anything we can really use. What would we say? We would say that this means the role is probably a mafia role. Which doesn't tell us anything about Chamber. We have already mentioned that he easily could have been hit by a fellow mafia. But it doesn't mean he is mafia, and I wouldn't vote to lynch him on that kind of basis.
If the role does come forward, then we still don't know if it's mafia or town. But the mafia do. We have then given them free information, and what have we really learned?
I still say wait for Chamber. If he can't tell us anything, well, we can revisit the issue.
If we can establish that Chamber was targeted by a mafia role, then we can establish that it's more likely that he was targeted by a fellow mafia member. If he was targeted by a townie player, then the mafia already know this, and they gain little information from the town discussing it openly. This way, we begin to narrow down the possibilities of what happened to Chamber, what his capabilities might be, and that information could tell us what his alignment is likely to be. Remember, if we find that he was for some reason targeted by a mafia member, even over more well-known targets such as yourself, then it's not exactly a point in his favor, and if we find that he has a powerful pro-town ability that required counter-balancing, then he can become a candidate for doc protection.
The more information we get, the better. We could conceivably wait until tomorrow to ask townies to come forward, but as we have little else to discuss right now, and I see little harm in doing so, I think now is as good a time as any.
Additional idle speculation: Chamber was nerfed by:
(A) A town player who wanted to try out his ability, but not on someone prominant. Chamber could be anything in that case.
I doubt this. Silencing someone for a day would be a terrible ability for a townie to have. You would never want to silence another townie, and if you know someone is mafia, then why aren't they dead yet? I don't think Carrion would give this ability to a townie.
Quote from Axelrod »
(B) A mafia player. Why would the mafia nerf someone no one knows? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Or the other hand, nerfing a fellow mafia to excuse his lurking does make sense, so if this is a mafia ability, it makes more sense for Chamber to be mafia. That is by no means a sure thing, however, just a logical possibility.
On the other hand, "nerfing" is a great ability for the mafia to have. They can silence someone who knows too much, or they can use it to protect one of their own. If this is indeed the correct option, we can conclude that chamber is probably mafia.
Quote from Axelrod »
(C) His own ability, which makes him lose his ability to post next day. It had better be a doozy of an ability if that's the case. I doubt this one.
My problem with this option is that not much happened last night. A "doozy" of an ability would probably result in some tangible effect for us to see. But the only other thing that happened was Puzzle lost his soul. If Chamber stole Puzzle's soul, then he's probably on the dark side.
Quote from Axelrod »
(D) A random game element. As in, someone gets nerfed everyday. I doubt this one too.
I actually think this is quite possible, given the zaniness of everything we know about already. Maybe the nerfing is not completely random, but part of some super-weird structure Carrion has set up.
Quote from Axelrod »
Seems to me the most likely thing is "A" at this point.
Seems to ME that the most likely thing is "B", and the second-most-likely thing is "D." If I'm right, then we can call all we want for the "nerfer" to step forward, but he won't, because if he does we'll all think he's mafia. At least I will.
Kenji, you must explain why you voted for chamber. Even if you think, as I do, that there's a strong possibility he's mafia, voting for someone who can't defend himself gains us nothing.
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I still feel that we gain nothing by calling for the "posting-blocker" to come forward. First of all, we'll immediately be faced with the question of whether or not the person who came forward is telling the truth, or is a mafia jumping on an opportunity to make themself look innocent. However, if we follow this line of thinking, whoever claims to have this ability is immediately going to become suspicious, because, as I said before, it's a good opportunity for a mafia to look innocent. Therefore, if someone does come forward, we're faced with the hard choice of that person possibly being mafia, or otherwise being a useful ability that we'll want to keep around.
Therefore, I think it's better that we sepcifically ask that the person with this ability does not come forward, so we're not forced into this hard choice. (becuase chances are, the mafia wouldn't actually claim this role, as we've talked about it in such depth. Then again, they may take it a step further, and since I have now assumed that the mafia would never claim this role, they claim the role and look innocent. Then we end up with this confusing cicle of reasoning that really gets us nowhere.)
My brain hurts...
I agree.
I don't really see a significant gain in useful information for the town by having this person, if there is one, come forward now. It may very well be that we will learn what happened to Chamber in the morning and not have to out a potentially valuable town role to do it.
It's true the more informtion the town can get the better but the same goes for the mafia. If we can gain the information without giving up valuable role information then that is what we should do. There may very well come a point where it is to our benefit that a role be revealed but I don't think this is it.
Looking over the list Axelrod compiled, my guess is we are most likely looking at option "A".
In my experience this type of ability is usually a town ability.
There are several possibilities why the player used it.
Newbie who had not thought out the consequences of blindly using the ability.
Newbie who had some reason to suspect Chamber.
Veterean Player who felt the benefits of using his ability out weighed the possible harm it might cause.
Veteran who had some reason to suspect Chamber.
Newbie or veteran who has an ability that is random in nature and did not know it would do what it did.
There are probably several more possibilities that fail to come to mind right now.
The next most likely option, imo, is "D" a random game element.
If this is the case then it should become clear that that is what happened in the near future.
I've already notified Carrion Pigeons that I will be on vacation Tuesday till Friday.
I will post as soon as possible when I get back.
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I doubt this. Silencing someone for a day would be a terrible ability for a townie to have. You would never want to silence another townie, and if you know someone is mafia, then why aren't they dead yet? I don't think Carrion would give this ability to a townie.
I've seen it (or the equivilant) before, and it has always been on town players thus far. I also think it's silly to speculate based on what Carrion would or wouldn't do in a game called "random" mafia, where we have already seen people lose their souls.
Quote from jcsuperstar »
On the other hand, "nerfing" is a great ability for the mafia to have. They can silence someone who knows too much, or they can use it to protect one of their own. If this is indeed the correct option, we can conclude that chamber is probably mafia.
It might be a good ability for mafia, but that does NOT mean Chamber is "probably" mafia. He might be. He might not. We just can't tell yet.
Quote from jcsuperstar »
My problem with this option is that not much happened last night. A "doozy" of an ability would probably result in some tangible effect for us to see. But the only other thing that happened was Puzzle lost his soul. If Chamber stole Puzzle's soul, then he's probably on the dark side.
(A) We don't know what happened last night.
(B) Ergo: we don't know if stuff happened we don't know about.
(C) How do you make the leap that it was Chamber who stole Puzzle's soul? I tend to think that's one of the less likely explanations (an ability that steals a soul at the expense of being able to post the next day?)
(D) Anyway, I think it's less likely to be his own ability period.
Quote from jcsuperstar »
I actually think this is quite possible, given the zaniness of everything we know about already. Maybe the nerfing is not completely random, but part of some super-weird structure Carrion has set up.
Possible. If so, we will find out in time. Calling for someone to come out won't get us anywhere and might have us chasing rabbits for a little while until we figured it out.
Quote from jcsuperstar »
Seems to ME that the most likely thing is "B", and the second-most-likely thing is "D." If I'm right, then we can call all we want for the "nerfer" to step forward, but he won't, because if he does we'll all think he's mafia. At least I will.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion. (but you're wrong. )(no I have no inside info. Just being a smart-alec)
Quote from jcsuperstar »
Kenji, you must explain why you voted for chamber. Even if you think, as I do, that there's a strong possibility he's mafia, voting for someone who can't defend himself gains us nothing.
If you thought there was a strong possibility he was mafia, then that means he's a better choice than anyone else by default--ability to defend himself or not. You really saying that?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I've seen it (or the equivilant) before, and it has always been on town players thus far. I also think it's silly to speculate based on what Carrion would or wouldn't do in a game called "random" mafia, where we have already seen people lose their souls.
Ok, I'll admit I've never played a game with this mechanic before. If you say it's usually a townie ability, I'll take your word for it.
Quote from Axelrod »
It might be a good ability for mafia, but that does NOT mean Chamber is "probably" mafia. He might be. He might not. We just can't tell yet.
What I was saying was IF this was a mafia ability, THEN it is very unlikely that a mafia would use it on a townie who has never played before. Thus, IF this was a mafia ability, THEN Chamber is probably mafia.
Quote from Axelrod »
(A) We don't know what happened last night.
(B) Ergo: we don't know if stuff happened we don't know about.
(C) How do you make the leap that it was Chamber who stole Puzzle's soul? I tend to think that's one of the less likely explanations (an ability that steals a soul at the expense of being able to post the next day?)
(D) Anyway, I think it's less likely to be his own ability period.
True. Something major may have happened last night that we don't know about. I was just going on the logic that if someone used a really powerful ability, we would probably be able to see its effects. Again I could be wrong. I agree with you that this whole possibility is unlikely.
Quote from Axelrod »
If you thought there was a strong possibility he was mafia, then that means he's a better choice than anyone else by default--ability to defend himself or not. You really saying that?
If you follow my logic that 'B' is the most likely option, then that leads to the conclusion that chamber is probably mafia. However, I will be the first to point out that my logic is not infallible, and I will defer to the more experienced players who say 'A' is more likely than 'B.'
Even if I thought chamber had a 30% chance of being mafia, I wouldn't vote for him now because there is little information the town could gain from attacking him. Useful information comes from the discussion between attackers and defenders. If he can't defend himself, we can't learn much from attacking him. (Unless we lynch him, which I definitely don't want to do at this point. I want to hear what he says on day 2.)
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These Personalities, being rather astonished to find themselves in such a predicament, all decide to find out which of them is responsible and bury them under a mountain of eggs.
Just as soon as you all wake up.
The living:
3-Hawkeye7
6-RafaelK
7-CropCircles
8-silicon
10-You Are Not Pro(newbie#1)
11-Zoobamaphooza
12-Puzzle
13-Verbal
14-draygn_mage
15-chamber(newbie#3)
16-jcsuperstar(I believe you)
17-Kenji
19-magicianofthought
20-Turbo164
The eggwhipped:
2-Musashi-Mafia
5-StevieT92-SK
1-Axelrod-Town
4-Fayul-Town
9-swinkee-Town
18-Azrael-mafia
REMEMBER:
Mafia is a game that requires active participation from its players. Don't sign up if you're not going to be active. If you're going to be gone for any reason, let me know in advance, although if you're planning to be gone for more than a week, you may be replaced instead.
Basic rules modified from www.mafiascum.net :
2. At the end of the day, the player with the highest number of votes will be the lynchee. The only way for the town to get a No Lynch is for a majority to vote that way, or else, for nobody to vote at all. If there is a tie at the end of the day, then day will continue until someone has a higher number of votes, at which point it will end immediately with that player's death.
3. Votes must be in bold, or an obvious attempt at such, or they will not count. Typos will not prevent your vote from counting, as long as I notice it, but if you just vote random player in your post without any attempt at bolding it, I won't count it, ever.
4. Do not communicate at night or day unless your role PM says otherwise.
5. Do not quote my PM's or I may have to modkill you.
7. You may vote No lynch, and a majority of these votes will end the day without a death.
8. Please do not edit or delete your posts no matter how stupid a mistake you made. This will get you modkilled, without exception.
9. Once you’re dead, you’re dead, so stop posting please.
10. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period, please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Else, you may be prodded.
11. If you have a night choice to make, it is due by the posted deadline. I will not wait for you – if you do not submit a choice to me, tough! No choice will be made. You will receive a reminder one day before the deadline if you haven’t submitted your choice. Night will not end before the deadline to give the mafia time to talk.
13. Once the final vote has been cast I honestly don't care if you still talk. I mean, who's going to just silently walk away after their town just mobbed and killed someone?
14. If you are requesting a mod prod or vote count can you Bold your request so that I can see it more clearly.
15. I want this game to keep moving so I expect everyone to post at least once every two days on average and if you don't you may receive a prod on the third day if you still haven't posted.
16. HAVE FUN!!!!!
17. Lastly and most importantly. Respect me and the rest of the players, I have not had to modkill anyone yet, and I don't intend to.
Be aware that there may be some real world references that you may disagree with in the flavor of the game. That's life. If you don't like it, delete it out of the post and resend it to yourself, or something. Most of the time, the flavor has very little impact on game play. Most of the time...
It is now Night 0. If you haven't confirmed, please do so. If you have a night ability other than a kill or an investigation that you wish to use, please make your choice and send it in.
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chamber may not post today.
Puzzle's soul was stolen.
One of you got into some trouble with the Jaws of Life, but the combined efforts of several of you managed to avoid serious consequences.
Other than that, not much happened. Day begins...now!
20 players, 10 to lynch!
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Looking forward to a good game?
Hmm. Random mafia, indeed. Only thing that really sticks out to me at first glance from the mod's description is the "Jaws of Life". Unless I'm mistaken, that's what firefighters use to get people out of wrecked cars, right? Looks a little odd.
Also, Carrion Pigeons, can we get some confirmation of roles and allegiance for Puzzle and other dead folks, or are we going to be left in the dark? Third, it looks like one of our killing groups is aiming for high-profile posters (assuming Puzzle was a townie, and not a victim of crossfire), so watch yourselves guys.
Lastly, as we gain more information about the setup we might also want to keep in mind that the mafia/SK might have been concerned about a "cunning plan" being created, and chose Puzzle for that reason. Something to keep in the back of our minds, just in case, though I have a feeling a mass claim as we've done in the past won't do us much good this time.
Also, and this is neither here nor there, but I am against in principle roles that nerf another player from posting entirely. That's no fun for anyone.
Carrion would you change the title. i did not know it started already started. (but i do now)
:confused3:
Carrion, can we get some clarification on this?
Agreed. Guess there's not much we can do about it this game, though.
The odd thing about the post-blocking seems to be that if it's a mafia ability, they picked a very strange target for it. Why pick Chambers, instead of Axel, Puzzle, myself, etc.? It's not conventional for the town to get post-blocking abilities (it makes very little sense design-wise, since the mafia are supposed to be the ones trying to limit information, and not the town), but perhaps Carrion has decided to try something odd, or use it as a handicap on the town. At any rate, if it's a town-aligned player, I'd suggest you hold your fire if at all possible, or at least try to minimize the damage and pick different targets from night to night.
Another explanation is that the mafia could be using that ability on one of their own in an attempt to clear him and/or give him an excuse to lurk and remain an unknown quantity. If Carrion is following conventional mod wisdom in his ability design, that's a possibility we'll want to keep in mind, although we'll definitely want to hear from Chambers if we can manage it before doing anything rash.
Any comments you have about the setup ro specific abilities will be ignored by me, no matter how much I want to comment on them. If you want to complain, feel free to do it at the end of the game when you see what the really stupid stuff I designed was all about.
It's pretty early still, but I'm going to post a vote count anyway.
Vote Count
Zoob- (StevieT92)
StevieT92- (swinkee)
EDIT: I should also correct myself and say that it's actually only 10 to lynch, since chamber doesn't have a vote today. Sorry about that.
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So there.
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I like Az' idea that the non-posting idea may have been used on chambers to give a mafia a reason to lurk. But since we can't get any information from chambers today, that doesn't really help us... yet. I hope the mod plans to send him a prodding PM at the end of this day, though. That sort of role is a great way to make someone forget they're in the game
Certainly be interesting to hear from Puzzle.
My suspicion re: the jaws of life is that it's a role (roleblocker ability, maybe? Who knows in this game) that went for someone who was being protected by multiple people.
Oh, one last thing- if you play Mafia on News under a different name to here, could you let me know?
On News I am known as Hawkeye7.
Oh Really?
Well, my dear Axelrod, I beg leave to submit that, I find I am not entirely convinced by your assertion. So much so that, I very much suspect you to be jesting.
It is to laugh.
Protected or maybe targetted by multiple abilities of other sorts.
It says the combined efforts of several of players.
Perhaps there are players who know exactly what this means.
I've already PM'd carrion pigeons on this, I will be on vaction for three days next week. Tuesday to Friday. I should be able to post in the AM Tuesday and in the PM on Friday.
At this point in the game I doubt that it will detract from the game.
I certainly hope it won't.
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I wouldn't assume that this is due to a mafia ability. I wouldn't assume this is due to anyone's ability at all, though it seems likely. I wouldn't assume much of anything.
This means something. Damned if I know what.
I take this to mean that someone almost died, but was prevented by the efforts of several of us. But this is strange, because Carrion said in post 1,
which leads me to believe that there were not supposed to be nightkills on night 1. Or maybe the mafia got a kill and no one else did. So thanks to whoever may have prevented someone from dying, I think.
I wish everyone a good game. And sorry Puzzle, about your soul and all. Do you miss it?
On the Jaws of Life thing, I think someone's just clumsy. Or maybe the mafia got to attempt a kill. I don't care to figure it out, somebody else do it. I don't care who.
I'm hungry where's the food?
morning, sunshine!
Well, now, we have a few things to figure out.
chamber not posting is obviously one of two things. Either somebody has a role that lets them do it, or as part of the rules of the game, Carrion randomly selects somebody each night who can't post. After all, it is random mafia.
as for Puzzle's soul being stolen, this may be mafia activity, and it may not be. Clearly the mafia was not allowed to post this past not, as stated in carrion's post. However, stealing a soul may be some funky mafia ability that does... something else. Again I'm not sure. It is Random Mafia. (yay for redundancy)
and in regards to the "jaws of life", well, I just have no clue.
What is a Cult thing? (forgive my ignorance)
Do you lose your soul before you die? I don't think that makes sense.
That's an interesting theory. Seems possible.
Sorry for the double post...
Hmmm? What does this mean?
Obviously I can't be sure, but I definitely think the "jaws of life" are meant to be taken metaphorically. As in "someone almost died." A fancy way of saying that.
Actually the only thing that have been talked about are game set up and Things about the game set up, this leads me to think it is day one. I'm super at logic.
Actually, the more I think about it the more it seems that people are bringing complaintes against CP to look por-town. Or they might really be pro-town and be trying to complain about a role that they are against, in principal.
Not much else to say. Later
A "Cult" is an alternate win condition group sometimes used in mafia games. There is a "recruiter" who picks someone each night to join the Cult (if he picks a mafia, it generally fails). They then become able to communicate at night like mafia and masons (this may not always be true). The Cult wins when it outnumbers everyone else. As a drawback, usually if the Cult leader is killed, all the current members also die.
Crippled_Fist is correct that it wouldn't make sense for the name of the person recruited to the Cult to be posted right out in the open, so that's clearly not what is going on. Which is not to say that there isn't a Cult or a Cult-like group in this game.
My own initial and very prematute thought was of a role with some kind of alternate win condition based on the number of souls he can "steal." Or possibly a Role that gains abilities based on how many souls it steals. That could be a mafia role or non-mafia role. There is a slight chance Puzzle will be able to tell us more about it, but I tend to doubt.
I also wonder why Chamber's name was mentioned as being affected by something during the night, as was Puzzle's, but the person involved in the Jaws of Life incident remains anonymous. What's so special about him? (Or her).
Additional idle speculation: Chamber was nerfed by:
(A) A town player who wanted to try out his ability, but not on someone prominant. Chamber could be anything in that case.
(B) A mafia player. Why would the mafia nerf someone no one knows? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Or the other hand, nerfing a fellow mafia to excuse his lurking does make sense, so if this is a mafia ability, it makes more sense for Chamber to be mafia. That is by no means a sure thing, however, just a logical possibility.
(C) His own ability, which makes him lose his ability to post next day. It had better be a doozy of an ability if that's the case. I doubt this one.
(D) A random game element. As in, someone gets nerfed everyday. I doubt this one too.
Seems to me the most likely thing is "A" at this point.
As some people know, I'm a big fan of random speculation in the early game, and I have been known to make accurate guesses in the past, but it also tends to make people argue with me, since no one else is saying anything worth arguing about. So please don't criticize me for speculating. Criticize the logic all you want, however.
Yes, that was my mistake. I meant to say "Kill", as in "the mafia couldn't kill last night.
I gotta pay more attention to what I post :-\
I'd like to hope that our townies would be smart enough to not "nerf" a random player, so maybe it was one of the new players. It really seems like a scum ability to me though. Maybe it was a SK who is new to the site and isn't aware of who the good players are.
[The Family]
If you think (A) is the most logical possibility, we may want to ask for any townie who blocked him to step forward and claim responsibility for that. If no one does, then we'll be able to narrow it down to B, C, and D, and question him once he (hopefully) resurfaces tomorrow. It risks exposing a minor role early in the game, but it could very well help us take down a scum player on day one or two. Thoughts?
As far as Puzzle's soul being stolen, I don't have a clue. We need Puzzle here to tell us what he can.
You guys are doing a great job. Keep it up.
I didn't realize that it was a no-kill night. I sent in my night decision (which WASN'T a kill) before he edited that in, so I just assumed that the SK/Mafia had already made their kill choices and he was just reminding other people to do their stuff.
Or did he say it was no-kill somewhere else and I'm just blind?
The easiest way to figure that out will be to wait until tomorrow. By then, we'll have hopefully narrowed down the possibilities to either "B" or "C". That is, we'll hopefully be able to tell whether or not a townie targeted him, and if the post restriction is a random game effect. We'll also be able to ask Chamber if it was his own ability, or someone else's. All things considered, the town gets the most information from waiting, and the mafia would have the most incentive to put him to an early death before we can get to the bottom of this. We really shouldn't be voting for him yet until we get a better idea of what's going on, and until we can get Chamber's input on this.
Granted the mafia could have blocked their own mafia to pull suspicion off him, but the odds of that do not warrent voting right now.
That's really... bad reasoning.
It'd be stupid to kill off a person who has now way of defending themselves, and if Chamber has any useful information to give us tommorow, we should defenitely wait to hear what he has to say.
I'm going to go ahead and FOS:Kenji, just because you seem a bit eager to kill someone who could be useful.
On the issue of whether the person who targeted Chamber should come forward (assuming he didn't do it to himself), I'm trying to think how the mafia would handle such a town member. Would that be a dangerous ability to them? Not really. Certainly not at this stage. Heck, mafia would probably like to get targeted this early so they don't have to do anything that could look suspicious. So if a townie did this he's relatively safe coming forward to say so. But just because someone comes forward doesn't mean they are town. If we demand that this role come forward, a mafia could come forward just as easily as a townie. I'm not sure what we learn.
The ability gets slightly more useful later in the game, but even then, it's not very. What's the best case scenario? We hit someone we "know" is a mafia and prevent them from posting or voting for the day? If we "knew" they were a mafia, we would just lynch them anyway.
Perhaps there are other rammifiactions to the role or ability that we know nothing about. For now, I say we just wait for Chamber who might be able to clarify something tomorrow.
You're right: if someone comes forward and claims, we don't learn much of anything new (and as you mentioned, the consequences won't be very dangerous for the town). But if no one comes forward, and the mafia decide not to risk drawing attention to themselves with a false claim, then we will be able to eliminate one of the most plausible explanations behind what happened to Chamber, and get that much closer to figuring out what's at the bottom of this.
So, in other words, you lost your soul, but feel no different. I knew it.
If we call for the role that targeted Chamber to come forward and no one does, we haven't learned anything. At least, we haven't learned anything we can really use. What would we say? We would say that this means the role is probably a mafia role. Which doesn't tell us anything about Chamber. We have already mentioned that he easily could have been hit by a fellow mafia. But it doesn't mean he is mafia, and I wouldn't vote to lynch him on that kind of basis.
If the role does come forward, then we still don't know if it's mafia or town. But the mafia do. We have then given them free information, and what have we really learned?
I still say wait for Chamber. If he can't tell us anything, well, we can revisit the issue.
It may be that not only is Chamber unable to post today, but that he was unable to do anything last night. There were no kills night zero. That could be by design and it was not allowed or it is possible that player abilities stopped/prevented it from happening.
Regardless, it is a very bad idea to target Chamber for lynching right now, as has already been pointed out by others.
If he is lynched we will learn his alignment, but little about what happened to him.
This is very interesting.
Your soul is stolen, but there is no restriction on your posting or voting. You receive a PM to that effect, but with no other details.
What would someone gain by stealing another players soul?
Puzzle, did the pm indicate how long your soul would be in someone else's possession?
Has anyone played in a mafia game with an ability like that before?
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
Therefore, I think it's better that we sepcifically ask that the person with this ability does not come forward, so we're not forced into this hard choice. (becuase chances are, the mafia wouldn't actually claim this role, as we've talked about it in such depth. Then again, they may take it a step further, and since I have now assumed that the mafia would never claim this role, they claim the role and look innocent. Then we end up with this confusing cicle of reasoning that really gets us nowhere.)
My brain hurts...
Zoob- (StevieT92)
StevieT92- (swinkee)
Axelrod- (Musashi)
chamber- (Kenji)
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
If we can establish that Chamber was targeted by a mafia role, then we can establish that it's more likely that he was targeted by a fellow mafia member. If he was targeted by a townie player, then the mafia already know this, and they gain little information from the town discussing it openly. This way, we begin to narrow down the possibilities of what happened to Chamber, what his capabilities might be, and that information could tell us what his alignment is likely to be. Remember, if we find that he was for some reason targeted by a mafia member, even over more well-known targets such as yourself, then it's not exactly a point in his favor, and if we find that he has a powerful pro-town ability that required counter-balancing, then he can become a candidate for doc protection.
The more information we get, the better. We could conceivably wait until tomorrow to ask townies to come forward, but as we have little else to discuss right now, and I see little harm in doing so, I think now is as good a time as any.
I doubt this. Silencing someone for a day would be a terrible ability for a townie to have. You would never want to silence another townie, and if you know someone is mafia, then why aren't they dead yet? I don't think Carrion would give this ability to a townie.
On the other hand, "nerfing" is a great ability for the mafia to have. They can silence someone who knows too much, or they can use it to protect one of their own. If this is indeed the correct option, we can conclude that chamber is probably mafia.
My problem with this option is that not much happened last night. A "doozy" of an ability would probably result in some tangible effect for us to see. But the only other thing that happened was Puzzle lost his soul. If Chamber stole Puzzle's soul, then he's probably on the dark side.
I actually think this is quite possible, given the zaniness of everything we know about already. Maybe the nerfing is not completely random, but part of some super-weird structure Carrion has set up.
Seems to ME that the most likely thing is "B", and the second-most-likely thing is "D." If I'm right, then we can call all we want for the "nerfer" to step forward, but he won't, because if he does we'll all think he's mafia. At least I will.
Kenji, you must explain why you voted for chamber. Even if you think, as I do, that there's a strong possibility he's mafia, voting for someone who can't defend himself gains us nothing.
Yeah Kenji has some 'splanin to do. Even in the rare chance he's a cop who investigated chamber, you dont vote this friggin early...
I agree.
I don't really see a significant gain in useful information for the town by having this person, if there is one, come forward now. It may very well be that we will learn what happened to Chamber in the morning and not have to out a potentially valuable town role to do it.
It's true the more informtion the town can get the better but the same goes for the mafia. If we can gain the information without giving up valuable role information then that is what we should do. There may very well come a point where it is to our benefit that a role be revealed but I don't think this is it.
Looking over the list Axelrod compiled, my guess is we are most likely looking at option "A".
In my experience this type of ability is usually a town ability.
There are several possibilities why the player used it.
Newbie who had not thought out the consequences of blindly using the ability.
Newbie who had some reason to suspect Chamber.
Veterean Player who felt the benefits of using his ability out weighed the possible harm it might cause.
Veteran who had some reason to suspect Chamber.
Newbie or veteran who has an ability that is random in nature and did not know it would do what it did.
There are probably several more possibilities that fail to come to mind right now.
The next most likely option, imo, is "D" a random game element.
If this is the case then it should become clear that that is what happened in the near future.
I've already notified Carrion Pigeons that I will be on vacation Tuesday till Friday.
I will post as soon as possible when I get back.
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
I've seen it (or the equivilant) before, and it has always been on town players thus far. I also think it's silly to speculate based on what Carrion would or wouldn't do in a game called "random" mafia, where we have already seen people lose their souls.
It might be a good ability for mafia, but that does NOT mean Chamber is "probably" mafia. He might be. He might not. We just can't tell yet.
(A) We don't know what happened last night.
(B) Ergo: we don't know if stuff happened we don't know about.
(C) How do you make the leap that it was Chamber who stole Puzzle's soul? I tend to think that's one of the less likely explanations (an ability that steals a soul at the expense of being able to post the next day?)
(D) Anyway, I think it's less likely to be his own ability period.
Possible. If so, we will find out in time. Calling for someone to come out won't get us anywhere and might have us chasing rabbits for a little while until we figured it out.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion. (but you're wrong. )(no I have no inside info. Just being a smart-alec)
If you thought there was a strong possibility he was mafia, then that means he's a better choice than anyone else by default--ability to defend himself or not. You really saying that?
Ok, I'll admit I've never played a game with this mechanic before. If you say it's usually a townie ability, I'll take your word for it.
What I was saying was IF this was a mafia ability, THEN it is very unlikely that a mafia would use it on a townie who has never played before. Thus, IF this was a mafia ability, THEN Chamber is probably mafia.
True. Something major may have happened last night that we don't know about. I was just going on the logic that if someone used a really powerful ability, we would probably be able to see its effects. Again I could be wrong. I agree with you that this whole possibility is unlikely.
If you follow my logic that 'B' is the most likely option, then that leads to the conclusion that chamber is probably mafia. However, I will be the first to point out that my logic is not infallible, and I will defer to the more experienced players who say 'A' is more likely than 'B.'
Even if I thought chamber had a 30% chance of being mafia, I wouldn't vote for him now because there is little information the town could gain from attacking him. Useful information comes from the discussion between attackers and defenders. If he can't defend himself, we can't learn much from attacking him. (Unless we lynch him, which I definitely don't want to do at this point. I want to hear what he says on day 2.)