@daz_eater: Certainly it could be construed as a joke. However, he said something that could have led to the "accidental" death of a townie. Which is an extra kill for the mafia if he's a townie. Can you see why this might be suspicious?
NO. Again if Enigma had not read the rules of the game and had been stupid enough to post his PM he would have deserved the Modkill. Azreal was not trying to get anyone killed. Because no one would be stupid enough to actually post thier PM.
For future purposes here is the list of those at the council:
Gimli
Gloin, father of Gimli
Gandalf
Glorfindel
Legolas
Galdor of the Havens
Frodo
Boromir
Aragorn
Bilbo
Erestor
Merry
Pippin
Samwise
And obviosly Elrond
I ruled out a few of these early on...but quite a few us seem to have fringe characters. And I know that I wasn't at the council.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal."
i guess theres no point on speculating if the entire fellowship is here or not, because there is no limit to mafia claiming not-fellowship. That seriously wasn't an attempt to draw suspicion to any of you. Also,
Don't say if you're non-fellowship, because that lowers Gollum's targets and we don't gain any useful information from it.
How do you know exactly what Gollum's targets are? We can't just be assuming things like this, unless you have some sort of knowledge we don't.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
We've been over this. Its a safe assumption that Gollum needs to kill Frodo to win.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'Lo, there do I see my father. 'Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers. 'Lo, there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning. 'Lo, they do call to me. They bid me to take my place amongst them in the halls of Valhalla. Where the brave may live forever.
I honestly don't think it is. I mean, sure, it's plausible, but that doesn't make it definite fact.
Hell, we don't even know for sure (but we can very safely guess) that Gollum is in the game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Hypothetical situation; You are given a remote. On this remote their is a big red button marked "possably blow up the whole freek'n world." Do you press the button?
What I'm trying to get at here is that it's just not worth the risk, we gain nothing from Frodo coming forward.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'Lo, there do I see my father. 'Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers. 'Lo, there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning. 'Lo, they do call to me. They bid me to take my place amongst them in the halls of Valhalla. Where the brave may live forever.
Thank you for posting more, you have pretty much allayed my suspicions. Of course just revelaing whether or not we're townies wouldn't help; everyone would just say "Townie." Even if we mass claim, we should assume that Axlerod is a good enough mod to ensure that the game can't be broken that easily AND that the mafia will false claim.
He's almost definitely a vig, so as long as he works with us, he shouldn't be a problem. Sorry about not posting much; this is only my second mafia game and the first one ended rather prematurely (Blind Mafia). The FOS on Enigma earlier was not a bandwagoning attempt. I was just agreeing with Fayul. Looking back on it, it does seem a little suspicious, I guess.
I think Gollum might have an alternate win condition, but let's not jump to conclusions. Sure, he may have an alternate win condition, and if he does, it's almost definitely killing Frodo, but he very well might not. However, I don't see how revealing whether we (everyone) are townies would help us. I'm pretty sure there are generic townie roles, so the mafia and SK could just claim generic and we'd be clueless as to whom to lynch. No, any sort of roleclaiming is a bad idea right now, IMO.
Well, actually, we'd be inclined to lynch those who claimed vanilla, or those whose role seems somewhat iffy. But its a moot point, because there isn't going to be a mass role claim.
Gollum can't have reasonably have an "alternate" win condition, because a regular SK condition is to kill everyone which is much harder that killing whomever has the ring. And I really can't think of a reason why Gollum wouldn't exist; theres more than plenty of evidence for and none against.
I think that we are all in consensus that gollum is in the game, for now wether or not his alternate win is kill frodo or kill everyone can wait for a while.
Sal'right I guess I can unvote safely. Not to steel Puzzle's thunder or anything but if we can drop the Gollum issue for a moment, I think I have a moderatly less idiotic then normal plan. Without claiming or indicating your role, does it fit with that charecter's role as per the books?
In my case no.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'Lo, there do I see my father. 'Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers. 'Lo, there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning. 'Lo, they do call to me. They bid me to take my place amongst them in the halls of Valhalla. Where the brave may live forever.
Erm... sort of... but not really. I'm not quite sure. But it would probably work out fine.
EDIT by way of double post (I really should abbreviate that to EBWODP. Or just say edit.) - Research sez yes, the part given to my character does fit his role in the books.
Sal'right I guess I can unvote safely. Not to steel Puzzle's thunder or anything but if we can drop the Gollum issue for a moment, I think I have a moderatly less idiotic then normal plan. Without claiming or indicating your role, does it fit with that charecter's role as per the books?
In my case no.
Hmmmm...
It may end up restricting the mafia's ability to claim, and I can't think of any way they can turn it against us and actually gain much information about our actual roles or identity.
I will Unvote as well, since it has become clear that Azrael was making an joke. An ill-advised and dangerous one, for sure, but not one worth lynching over.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
My role fits. Though I have to say I think this is a pointless question to be asking everyone since the answer is too subjective in many cases.
While I'm here: UnFOS: Enigma91.
So now we know the lethal-sounding double mafia scenario does not apply. This is clearly a good thing, but means we're a bit behind on talking strategy for the game we are playing.
Roleclaims are looking like a bad way to proceed, so what other approaches are available ?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
A problem that is slowing this game is the high number of newer players who can't be expected not to make mistakes, post infrequently or make mistakes.
Since I can't think of anything else to talk about, why do I look suspicious to some of you?
A problem that is slowing this game is the high number of newer players who can't be expected not to make mistakes, post infrequently or make mistakes.
Since I can't think of anything else to talk about, why do I look suspicious to some of you?
Of course, its just as likely that mafia members are new players, and might make mistakes too. I'd expect a high number of newer players to accelerate the game, infact.
Well... my role fits, so to speak. As bateler poitned out, though, its very subjective. Most roles could be twisted to fit, I'd think.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I honestly don't see the point of it but, yes, my character and role fit together reasonably well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Me
Fayul
Pibbly
dragyn_mage
god child
bateleur
aurorasparrow
daz_eater
worthawholebean
Azrael (I think; see below)
enigma91 (obviously)
with roles that fit their characters and
SOS (admittedly, has not read the books; wikipedia for research would rock)
Deadly Budah
with roles that don't.
Admittedly, as bateleur said, this is somewhat subjective. Also, don't see how this info helps us that much.
Azrael said
Quote from Azrael »
Hmmmm...
It may end up restricting the mafia's ability to claim, and I can't think of any way they can turn it against us and actually gain much information about our actual roles or identity.
I'm going to go with a "yes".
I'm not sure if the yes was "yes my ability fits my character" or "yes we should claim ability fitting character."
okay, now we once again have nothing to talk about.. all this did was cement the probability that gollum is an sk and goes after frodo, and give us more validity in speculation.
uh.. FOS Pibbly for not posting as often as normal.
okay, now we once again have nothing to talk about.. all this did was cement the probability that gollum is an sk and goes after frodo, and give us more validity in speculation.
uh.. FOS Pibbly for not posting as often as normal.
Next time I get a minute, I may do a PBPA of you like you requested, but the impending deadline and chaos of 7th ed has kept me from analyzying this thread as much as I otherwise would.
Not saying this game is less interesting, it's just been pure anarchy in the other thread lately.
Dude....you have read the thread right? Kpaca was replaced with Titus. As for who we go with....I think we should probably go back and look at the bandwqagon on Enigma. There might be the possibilty of at least one scum on that wagon.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal."
I mean sure, the game is stalling out a bit, but cutting off discussion and forcing us to a fast lynch is NEVER a good idea except in extreme circumstances.
There's nothing wrong with a long day 1. Indeed, day 1 has the potential to be the most important day of the game - why screw it up by rushing ?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Aurora, ironically, i am on vacation. I thought that i would have tons of time to read over every post and post a lot more, but i dont. It seems that i am doing something everyday, and i have no time to post as much.
Dont worry, when i go back to work on monday, ill get back to my regular posting habbits.
Umm... Vote Aurora, for suggesting a time limit.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to Legacy15 and Butteblues18 for the Sig and Avatar!
As long as we are talking the subject of a deadline, my thought was that if discussion had sufficiently stalled, I would call a deadline for Wednesday, June 15, at around 3:00 p.m. This would make for a day 1 of 10 days, which is a fair length.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Eastern Standard Time, U.S. I'm not actually announcing a deadline, yet, however. I wouldn't do that until Monday at the earliest, as many people are away during the weekend. I will try to give at least 48 hours notice before any deadline.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I know its not good for the town. I just thought that maybe having a time limit might cause people to, you know, post stuff with ACTUAL CONTENT.
see? my proposition kinda got the game moving a bit. at least theres something to talk about now.
Certainly, there are benefits and downsides to having a time limit.
That said, if you KNOW it's not good for the town, then why on earth would you suggest it? That really makes little sense from a townie view. Still only an FOS, but you're looking more suspicious.
Aurorasparrow was one of the primary advocates for Enigma to come forward early on. He was also the one advocating for the fellowship to come forward. After Enigma so subtely revealed himself, Aurorasparrow was advocating for him to role claim. Most recently recently he has called for a deadline. All of his actions up to this point uppose the well being and success of the town.
Vote: Aurorasparrow
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'Lo, there do I see my father. 'Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers. 'Lo, there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning. 'Lo, they do call to me. They bid me to take my place amongst them in the halls of Valhalla. Where the brave may live forever.
Sweet Avy by Le Gambit
Ye badass banner by Craven
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
NO. Again if Enigma had not read the rules of the game and had been stupid enough to post his PM he would have deserved the Modkill. Azreal was not trying to get anyone killed. Because no one would be stupid enough to actually post thier PM.
For future purposes here is the list of those at the council:
Don't say if you're non-fellowship, because that lowers Gollum's targets and we don't gain any useful information from it.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
How do you know exactly what Gollum's targets are? We can't just be assuming things like this, unless you have some sort of knowledge we don't.
Hell, we don't even know for sure (but we can very safely guess) that Gollum is in the game.
What I'm trying to get at here is that it's just not worth the risk, we gain nothing from Frodo coming forward.
Well, actually, we'd be inclined to lynch those who claimed vanilla, or those whose role seems somewhat iffy. But its a moot point, because there isn't going to be a mass role claim.
Also Unvote who ever I am voting. I think we are back to square one with a claimed vig.
armlx: I don't understand?
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
You're not supposed to yet.
If you're a townie, I'd advise you to stop fishing for potential claim information.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Just trying to give us a better perception of the game setup, is my guess. It helps, even if we don't know the reasoning behind it quite yet.
In my case no.
EDIT by way of double post (I really should abbreviate that to EBWODP. Or just say edit.) - Research sez yes, the part given to my character does fit his role in the books.
Hmmmm...
It may end up restricting the mafia's ability to claim, and I can't think of any way they can turn it against us and actually gain much information about our actual roles or identity.
I'm going to go with a "yes".
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
While I'm here: UnFOS: Enigma91.
So now we know the lethal-sounding double mafia scenario does not apply. This is clearly a good thing, but means we're a bit behind on talking strategy for the game we are playing.
Roleclaims are looking like a bad way to proceed, so what other approaches are available ?
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Since I can't think of anything else to talk about, why do I look suspicious to some of you?
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Of course, its just as likely that mafia members are new players, and might make mistakes too. I'd expect a high number of newer players to accelerate the game, infact.
Well... my role fits, so to speak. As bateler poitned out, though, its very subjective. Most roles could be twisted to fit, I'd think.
Aurora: i dont find you scummy at all (yet).....
Deadly Budah - 1 (Pibbly)
God Child - 1 (swinkee)
Fayul - 2 (aurorasparrow, God Child)
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
*kpaca is being replaced by Titus*
Secondly, we so far have:
Me
Fayul
Pibbly
dragyn_mage
god child
bateleur
aurorasparrow
daz_eater
worthawholebean
Azrael (I think; see below)
enigma91 (obviously)
with roles that fit their characters and
SOS (admittedly, has not read the books; wikipedia for research would rock)
Deadly Budah
with roles that don't.
Admittedly, as bateleur said, this is somewhat subjective. Also, don't see how this info helps us that much.
Azrael said
I'm not sure if the yes was "yes my ability fits my character" or "yes we should claim ability fitting character."
Alright, cool.
Finally, people who haven't yet claimed ability fitting character:
LJustus
kpaca/Titus
Armlx
Swinkee
Again, how does this data help us, really?
Both.
Well, it would be kind of silly to say that we should claim ability fitting flavour but not actually do it for yourself.
my rolename doesn't scream 'my ability', but it isn't far fetched all. so yes, my role fits.
uh.. FOS Pibbly for not posting as often as normal.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Next time I get a minute, I may do a PBPA of you like you requested, but the impending deadline and chaos of 7th ed has kept me from analyzying this thread as much as I otherwise would.
Not saying this game is less interesting, it's just been pure anarchy in the other thread lately.
Unvote
Vote Kpaca
Unvote
My ability is logical with my role name. Thats about all I can say for now.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Why in the world would any townie suggest that??
I mean sure, the game is stalling out a bit, but cutting off discussion and forcing us to a fast lynch is NEVER a good idea except in extreme circumstances.
There's nothing wrong with a long day 1. Indeed, day 1 has the potential to be the most important day of the game - why screw it up by rushing ?
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Dont worry, when i go back to work on monday, ill get back to my regular posting habbits.
Umm... Vote Aurora, for suggesting a time limit.
see? my proposition kinda got the game moving a bit. at least theres something to talk about now.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Certainly, there are benefits and downsides to having a time limit.
That said, if you KNOW it's not good for the town, then why on earth would you suggest it? That really makes little sense from a townie view. Still only an FOS, but you're looking more suspicious.
Vote: Aurorasparrow