:confused3: What does that have to do with anything?
Anyway: Personally, I am of the opinion that Enigma should claim.
Let's say he's scum and false-claims. Someone counterclaims. We lynch Engima. Either he's scum and we just got a good lynch, or he's townie and we lynch the person who counterclaimed him tomorrow. At worst, that's a one to one trade. Isn't that a good thing for the town? On the other hand, if no one counterclaims, we have a confirmed townie.
The only point where this breaks down is if he claims the role he was assigned but claims it as townie rather than scum. Which could be possible if he's boromir. That would be suboptimal. So I'm not quite sure what we should do, but it seems rational to get a roleclaim.
I doubt we'd see Boromir as anything but town. He did some pretty bad stuff but at the end he was a good guy. As for Enigma claiming the role name might be the best thing he can do. And number 3 on the bandwagon is a nasty position because many times scum will try to push bandwagons to lynch townies. I don't really have any overt suspicions about Enigma besides that it might be a possible mafia play. But if he name claims we might clear him for sure. Should enigma claim? I think so. Thoughts?
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"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal."
It would definitly help to elevieate some paranoia. Noboddy wants a botched lynch at this point.
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'Lo, there do I see my father. 'Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers. 'Lo, there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning. 'Lo, they do call to me. They bid me to take my place amongst them in the halls of Valhalla. Where the brave may live forever.
I disagree with him claiming. If he claimed vig and was lying, our vig will kill him tonight. No need to force a townie (in my mind) completely out in the open, though t could hardly be anyone but Boromir.
'Lo, there do I see my father. 'Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers. 'Lo, there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning. 'Lo, they do call to me. They bid me to take my place amongst them in the halls of Valhalla. Where the brave may live forever.
just one thing I want to point out, I didn;t control how I killed, nor do I no if it's the same every time, so just seeing someone decapitated isn't a sure sign. I'm sorry for the confusion my hastiness created, and obviously if it helps at all I won't kill unless a consensus is reached, and if no consensus I won't kill at all. Not sure what else I can help to do to clear my name, don't have anything else to claim(apart from name but split opinion there)
rarely can mafia be found through facts. feelings are all we have.
that said, Enigma's coming out almost completely eliminates any possibility of two mafia, as the double kill was the only thing leading us down that path. Now we know there is
1 mafia - Saruman and Sauron never fought anyways, right?
1 SK, Gollum - too much evidence NOT to accept.
1 vig, probably Boromir due to rogue-ness and strength - claimed
The chance that enigma is lying is very small for one reason:
He said he beheaded someone. So if anyone is beheaded, we will lynch him. It doesn't make sense to claim responsibility for this unless he controlled the kills and killing was not part of his win condition, especially since he could hide with no consequence.
If the mafia was trying to falseclaim theyd choose someone more experienced than Enigma. Falseclaiming vig is hard to do, especially since if theres a real vig the faker dies.
vote Fayul for being #3 on the wagon.
The chance of enigma lying and getting away with it is very small. I'd consider his chances of being mafia to be pretty good at this point.
My take on it is that he tried to seize on that claim as a desperation measure to save himself. Obv, if it is, it's not going to work. We have a choice of either lynching him now, or we can simply wait until tomorrow and see what happens during the night to gain an additional measure of certainity.
As for "choosing" someone more experienced, I highly doubt any of the rest of the mafia would have had anything to do with this. If he's guilty, then this is his own gamble, and the rest of them are sitting back and watching, or trying to defend him and buy him time, much like you...
The constant speculation about Boromir or Gimli doesn't help anything either. It looks like bait intended to draw out those characters to either confirm/deny your speculation, which we definitely DO NOT want to happen. And neither do we want our vig to come forward: the less claimed townies/roles in the early game, the better.
I also don't like that vote for Fayul much either. 3rd on a wagon is hardly a justification for a vote in itself, and right now we need to focus in on Enigma and resolve this, not distract attention away.
FOS Aurorasparrow.
So what do we do next? Well, if we wait to lynch enigma, we give the mafia a chance to play around with the kills a bit, but could gain some additional confirmation.
If we lynch him now, we lynch a character who is very likely scum, and don't waste any of our precious time on anyone else, and can start taking out his buddies tomorrow. But without more information, there's still a bit of doubt about what's going on.
At this stage of things, I think our best bet is to go ahead and pressure him into a claim, and decide from there. Enigma, I think it's time for you to name-claim. Depending on who he claims, we may or may not want to counter-claim him immediately. Let's just see what he has to say, first.
Name claim you ask for, name claim you get. I am Boromir, if there's anything else I can do to prove I'm just an idiot and not mafia I'd be glad to oblige
I doubt we'd see Boromir as anything but town. He did some pretty bad stuff but at the end he was a good guy.
Yeah, I guess you're right, he redeemed himself.
Quote from dazbog_eaterofsouls »
And number 3 on the bandwagon is a nasty position because many times scum will try to push bandwagons to lynch townies.
Alright, didn't know that thx.
Quote from Daz »
I don't really have any overt suspicions about Enigma besides that it might be a possible mafia play. But if he name claims we might clear him for sure. Should enigma claim? I think so. Thoughts?
I don't like the "If he's false claiming vig then the vig could kill him" approach. Nobody's brought this up, but it's (theoretically) possible that there are two vigs (and no, I'm not claiming, just speculating). This is, admittedly, very unlikely; however, it could lead to the vig wasting a kill on a townie if there are dubs. Again, it's pretty unlikely.
I think that we should think about about what the worst downside of Engima roleclaiming is. I personally don't see one. Any ideas?
PPE - He claimed Boromir, thus rendering most of my post null and void. Anyone got counterclaim?
Name claim you ask for, name claim you get. I am Boromir, if there's anything else I can do to prove I'm just an idiot and not mafia I'd be glad to oblige
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Nice way to try to get someone modkilled. Honestly, I can't see Az missing a rule that big.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
The chance of enigma lying and getting away with it is very small. I'd consider his chances of being mafia to be pretty good at this point.
My take on it is that he tried to seize on that claim as a desperation measure to save himself. Obv, if it is, it's not going to work. We have a choice of either lynching him now, or we can simply wait until tomorrow and see what happens during the night to gain an additional measure of certainity.
As for "choosing" someone more experienced, I highly doubt any of the rest of the mafia would have had anything to do with this. If he's guilty, then this is his own gamble, and the rest of them are sitting back and watching, or trying to defend him and buy him time, much like you...
Whats the difference between lynching him today or tomorrow if he's mafia? which I will bet my own neck on that hes not.
Quote from Azrael »
The constant speculation about Boromir or Gimli doesn't help anything either. It looks like bait intended to draw out those characters to either confirm/deny your speculation, which we definitely DO NOT want to happen. And neither do we want our vig to come forward: the less claimed townies/roles in the early game, the better.
see below.
Quote from azrael »
I also don't like that vote for Fayul much either. 3rd on a wagon is hardly a justification for a vote in itself, and right now we need to focus in on Enigma and resolve this, not distract attention away.
we're not in world dom anymore, as someone has already stated; votes don't carry as much weight as we're treating them with.
FOS Aurorasparrow.
Quote from azrael »
So what do we do next? Well, if we wait to lynch enigma, we give the mafia a chance to play around with the kills a bit, but could gain some additional confirmation.
play around with the kills? explain.
Quote from azrael »
If we lynch him now, we lynch a character who is very likely scum, and don't waste any of our precious time on anyone else, and can start taking out his buddies tomorrow. But without more information, there's still a bit of doubt about what's going on.
So you're already assuming he's mafia? I haven't heard a really solid argument against him yet.
Quote from Azrael »
At this stage of things, I think our best bet is to go ahead and pressure him into a claim, and decide from there. Enigma, I think it's time for you to name-claim. Depending on who he claims, we may or may not want to counter-claim him immediately. Let's just see what he has to say, first.
Quote from Azrael »
The constant speculation about Boromir or Gimli doesn't help anything either. It looks like bait intended to draw out those characters to either confirm/deny your speculation, which we definitely DO NOT want to happen. And neither do we want our vig to come forward: the less claimed townies/roles in the early game, the better.
yeah.
don't blindly trust azrael, guys. you're not going to find a counterclaim because my reasoning is correct.
I don't care: No townsperson would be so careless with the life of someone who hadn't confirmed yet.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
To clarify, that last post of mine was directed towards Enigma, not Aurara. I really need to learn to not use the quick-reply.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
As I said before I have no defense of this except that I'm new to this, first time vig, and third game of mafi. So I know the basic stuff, but not all the do's and don'ts of all the roles. All I can do is admit I made a mistake and ask to not be lynched/forgiveness
Major, major FOS: Azrael. Very close to turning into a vote. Trying to lynch Engima and then trying to get him to commit suicide? Seriously... That's pretty suspicious there.
Ok not gonna let Azreal get lynched for pulling a joke, and I'll say that if I had done that I would only blame myself
He was trying to get you lynched. Seriously, there is no logical reason for him to do so using that method, especially considering that you're somewhat of a n00b (no offense, so am I).
He was trying to get you lynched. Seriously, there is no logical reason for him to do so using that method, especially considering that you're somewhat of a n00b (no offense, so am I).
EDIT by way of double post - I mean, no way that I can see. Maybe he can see something that I can't. Or maybe it was just a joke. If so, it was sorta stupid.
yes he was trying to get me lynched, but was joking about the quote your role pm thing, the lynching he has his reasons to believe, many of which involve my stupidity. Hence the joke trying to get me to do something ooutrageously stupid
yes he was trying to get me lynched, but was joking about the quote your role pm thing, the lynching he has his reasons to believe, many of which involve my stupidity. Hence the joke trying to get me to do something ooutrageously stupid
If he was joking about the "quote your PM" thing... that still seems ill-advised. I mean, what if you had posted it? Assuming you're town (which we'll see if someone counterclaims or not) that's the equivalent of an extra nightkill for the mafia (which is not good).
You know what they say: Assuming makes an ass out of u and Ming.
Anyway; Maybe I was a bit hasty on definitely accusing Azrael, but my vote for him stands. Trying to get a free kill, no matter how unlikely, is something to be very suspicious of.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Well, if thats all I can claim short of something that will mod kill me then I leave it up to you guys to decide
Actually there is more you can claim.
Can you paraphrase your role PM's flavor etc. without directly quoting?
Quote from Fayul »
I don't care: No townsperson would be so careless with the life of someone who hadn't confirmed yet.
What's a joke? :confused3:
Besides that, I was a little tempted to see if he would fabricate some kind of fake Boromir role claim and NOT get mod-killed for it. That would have been enjoyable. The other outcome, him getting mod-killed for actually posting a true boromir role PM, a situation I consider awfully unlikely, would at the least have cleared him of suspicion and saved us a lynch, don't you agree?
Quote from Rhinocero »
If he was joking about the "quote your PM" thing... that still seems ill-advised. I mean, what if you had posted it? Assuming you're town (which we'll see if someone counterclaims or not) that's the equivalent of an extra nightkill for the mafia (which is not good).
More like an extra lynch, actually. But I really doubted he was going to post a genuine Boromir PM.
Also, be careful not to hinge his innocence as automatic if no one counter-claims: I HIGHLY doubt that the entire fellowship is in the game.
Quote from aurorasparrow »
Whats the difference between lynching him today or tomorrow if he's mafia? which I will bet my own neck on that hes not.
see below.
we're not in world dom anymore, as someone has already stated; votes don't carry as much weight as we're treating them with.
FOS Aurorasparrow.
play around with the kills? explain.
I'd prefer not to give them any ideas.
As for the FOS of yourself, I thought that was a rather impressive way of demonstrating the uselessness of FOSes, but eh. I guess you didn't intend to use it that way.
Quote from aurorasparrow »
actually, I was quoting his reply and didn't take out his FOS of me. but yeah..
unFOS Aurorasparrow, FOS Azrael
Ooo, nice way to divert attention. Major mafia brownie points for that one, if you're scum.
Quote from aurorasparrow »
So you're already assuming he's mafia? I haven't heard a really solid argument against him yet.
What's the argument against him? The argument is that the setup seems to indicate a two mafia setup pretty clearly, and that he either made an incredibly bad mistake, or he's trying to false claim very clumsily.
Quote from aurorasparrow »
yeah.
don't blindly trust azrael, guys. you're not going to find a counterclaim because my reasoning is correct.
Baiting the counter-claim if there is one, and trying to confirm him if there isn't. Decent trick for a mafia, and definitely one we'd need to watch for, since we're down our investigator.
Well I'll just say again choice A: I made a dumb mistake
As to what I can say, I am told my name, my goal(personal junk not actuall game), a small list of relatives, like a squire would prattle off. A description of ability, The win condition for good players that is in Axels first post, how to use my ability, my alignment; not in that order.(I hope I don't get modkilled, this is as general as I can make it and I'm not quoting anything)
Az, I know that it's unlikely he would have posted something. But being so risky about is dangerous and reeks of scum.
Was it funny? Sure, I guess. But this isn't a humor contest.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Well I'll just say again choice A: I made a dumb mistake
As to what I can say, I am told my name, my goal(personal junk not actuall game), a small list of relatives, like a squire would prattle off. A description of ability, The win condition for good players that is in Axels first post, how to use my ability, my alignment; not in that order.(I hope I don't get modkilled, this is as general as I can make it and I'm not quoting anything)
You get a list of relatives???
Hmm. Interesting.
Well, at this stage of things your claim seems at least plausible enough to wait until tomorrow, and see what happens...
Guys...we're not gonna lynch Azrael because of that.... really. That being said, I'm not really feeling that bad about Enigma. It's enitrely possible that he just made a stupid mistake. I know the first game where I was a vig (second game ever), I shot right away. Boromir isn't a fringe character. I expect hgim to be in this game. And with no counter-claim coming I doubt enigma is mafia (I could be wrong) It would be safer for the mafia to claim a fringe character because by claiming a maion character he risked being lynched imediately if he was mafia.
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"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal."
Really? Why? It seems like there should be room for all of them.
Yeah, but then there wouldn't be room for hardly anyone else. If there's 7 scum roles, 9 fellowship, and 20 roles in the game to start with, then that's only 4 non-fellowship roles. Not that terribly likely, imo, although it could be true. We'll be able to tell better as time goes on.
Well, someone said Axel said thered be vanilla roles in the game (note the plural) and we already have Sam, so wouldnt Merry and Pippin make sense? Theres also not that many good people in LOTR outside the fellowship with a very unique or deep personality; can you name more than four?
I firmly believe in the entire fellowship existing. It IS the council of elrond.
Well, someone said Axel said thered be vanilla roles in the game (note the plural) and we already have Sam, so wouldnt Merry and Pippin make sense? Theres also not that many good people in LOTR outside the fellowship with a very unique or deep personality; can you name more than four?
I firmly believe in the entire fellowship existing. It IS the council of elrond.
Well, I don't want to give away too much, but my role was pretty generic and unexpected, actually, which leads me to believe that there are important non-fellowship characters that would logically make it in first. If there's only room for 4, I kind of doubt that my character would have made it as one of those 4 unless a good representation of additional non-fellowshippers also existed.
However, I could be wrong. At least you'll have a heads up about that in the event of a claim later on in the game.
@SOS: You aren't allowed to edit your posts, whatever the reason. Accidental smilies do not warrant this.
@Axelrod: I think, much like in Mythos Mafia, there shouldn't be any punishment as he is new.
I firmly believe Enigma is town. He has claimed a mjor role, and there has been no counter-claim. He is, in my eyes, a confirmed townie. Everyone else should treat him the same (Hint at docter).
Now I think we have to take a look at the people on the hasty bandwagon, i.e LJustus, Armlx, Fayul, Deadly Budah. These were the people advocating lynching someone who I thought was fairly likely to be a towny. Now, I don't mind people voting in order to put pressure on people, put these people were voting to lynch. I'm going to follow reed's lead, and Unvote, Vote: Fayul, to put some pressure on him.
OK, you're sounding more convincing now. UnFos: god child
Also, if Enigma is mafia he plays an odd game. He was the first to propose the presence of a vig and started setting up his roleclaim very early for a role which could easily have been present (in the hands of a townie), then he plays in a way that gets lots of people trying to lynch him. Not good whether he's mafia or town, surely ?
As a consequence of which: FOS Azrael, for trying to engineer the death of a claimed vig. I'm sure the "paste role PM" thing was (meant to look like) a joke, but that's not all he's said.
I'll also be keeping a close eye on the people who voted for Enigma's lynch...
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Look guys...whatever Azral meant by it....it doesn't matter...if enigma had posted his role PM thatw ould have been exceedingly stupid. Would anyone here amkle that mistake? I'm about halfway convinced that Enigma is with us though my gut is giving me nagging doubts. More later.
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"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal."
Are you people even listening to me? Stop being sheeps! Look is Enigma had psted his real role PM he would have been modkilled and deserved it. Azrael is not more scummy because of the incident. Get it? Got it? Good.
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"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal."
I firmly believe Enigma is town. He has claimed a mjor role, and there has been no counter-claim. He is, in my eyes, a confirmed townie. Everyone else should treat him the same
Now I think we have to take a look at the people on the hasty bandwagon, i.e LJustus, Armlx, Fayul, Deadly Budah. These were the people advocating lynching someone who I thought was fairly likely to be a towny. Now, I don't mind people voting in order to put pressure on people, put these people were voting to lynch. I'm going to follow reed's lead, and Unvote, Vote: Fayul, to put some pressure on him.
Just because you were fairly certain of Enigma's "towniness" does not necessarily mean that those of us who didn't believe him are scummy. I feel I was fairly clear as to my reasoning for my vote. I did not believe his claim.
With the new information that we have available, I will unvote Enigma91.
Aurorasparrow & Azrael - I am keeping my eye on both of you. Though at this point, I am inclined to believe Az a little bit more due to some of his reasonings and similarities in what he said to my own reasoning and other information.
Hmmm. I missed the edit. But, as it is a first infraction, and SOS is new to the game, I am just issuing a warning. This is a warning to everyone, however. Do not edit your posts--even if it comes out wrong. Just live with it.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Based on the name of the game and Azrael's post about his character, I think I may be able to back him up on having an unlikely character. In the books and movie, I was nowhere near Elrond's council.
Hmmm. I missed the edit. But, as it is a first infraction, and SOS is new to the game, I am just issuing a warning. This is a warning to everyone, however. Do not edit your posts--even if it comes out wrong. Just live with it.
You can always edit via double post.
@dragyn_mage: I don't think my character was at the council. Not sure, though.
@daz_eater: Certainly it could be construed as a joke. However, he said something that could have led to the "accidental" death of a townie. Which is an extra kill for the mafia if he's a townie. Can you see why this might be suspicious?
Aurorasparrow has been somewhat suspicious for a while, but nothing concrete. My other suspicion lies, again, with worthawholebean. He's only posted twice, once to attempt to bandwagon suspicion on a (now) known townie, and the other with a "What?" So I'm somewhat suspicious of him.
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:confused3: What does that have to do with anything?
Anyway: Personally, I am of the opinion that Enigma should claim.
Let's say he's scum and false-claims. Someone counterclaims. We lynch Engima. Either he's scum and we just got a good lynch, or he's townie and we lynch the person who counterclaimed him tomorrow. At worst, that's a one to one trade. Isn't that a good thing for the town? On the other hand, if no one counterclaims, we have a confirmed townie.
The only point where this breaks down is if he claims the role he was assigned but claims it as townie rather than scum. Which could be possible if he's boromir. That would be suboptimal. So I'm not quite sure what we should do, but it seems rational to get a roleclaim.
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21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
ah. true.. hadn't thought of that. I think boromir fits better though.
enigma: never kill unless we tell you to.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
The chance of enigma lying and getting away with it is very small. I'd consider his chances of being mafia to be pretty good at this point.
My take on it is that he tried to seize on that claim as a desperation measure to save himself. Obv, if it is, it's not going to work. We have a choice of either lynching him now, or we can simply wait until tomorrow and see what happens during the night to gain an additional measure of certainity.
As for "choosing" someone more experienced, I highly doubt any of the rest of the mafia would have had anything to do with this. If he's guilty, then this is his own gamble, and the rest of them are sitting back and watching, or trying to defend him and buy him time, much like you...
The constant speculation about Boromir or Gimli doesn't help anything either. It looks like bait intended to draw out those characters to either confirm/deny your speculation, which we definitely DO NOT want to happen. And neither do we want our vig to come forward: the less claimed townies/roles in the early game, the better.
I also don't like that vote for Fayul much either. 3rd on a wagon is hardly a justification for a vote in itself, and right now we need to focus in on Enigma and resolve this, not distract attention away.
FOS Aurorasparrow.
So what do we do next? Well, if we wait to lynch enigma, we give the mafia a chance to play around with the kills a bit, but could gain some additional confirmation.
If we lynch him now, we lynch a character who is very likely scum, and don't waste any of our precious time on anyone else, and can start taking out his buddies tomorrow. But without more information, there's still a bit of doubt about what's going on.
At this stage of things, I think our best bet is to go ahead and pressure him into a claim, and decide from there. Enigma, I think it's time for you to name-claim. Depending on who he claims, we may or may not want to counter-claim him immediately. Let's just see what he has to say, first.
Yeah, I guess you're right, he redeemed himself.
Alright, didn't know that thx.
I don't like the "If he's false claiming vig then the vig could kill him" approach. Nobody's brought this up, but it's (theoretically) possible that there are two vigs (and no, I'm not claiming, just speculating). This is, admittedly, very unlikely; however, it could lead to the vig wasting a kill on a townie if there are dubs. Again, it's pretty unlikely.
I think that we should think about about what the worst downside of Engima roleclaiming is. I personally don't see one. Any ideas?
PPE - He claimed Boromir, thus rendering most of my post null and void. Anyone got counterclaim?
Sure. Copy-paste your role PM.
Yes, you would.
Exactly.
Nice way to try to get someone modkilled. Honestly, I can't see Az missing a rule that big.
Whats the difference between lynching him today or tomorrow if he's mafia? which I will bet my own neck on that hes not.
see below.
we're not in world dom anymore, as someone has already stated; votes don't carry as much weight as we're treating them with.
FOS Aurorasparrow.
play around with the kills? explain.
So you're already assuming he's mafia? I haven't heard a really solid argument against him yet.
yeah.
don't blindly trust azrael, guys. you're not going to find a counterclaim because my reasoning is correct.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
unFOS Aurorasparrow, FOS Azrael
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
He was trying to get you lynched. Seriously, there is no logical reason for him to do so using that method, especially considering that you're somewhat of a n00b (no offense, so am I).
EDIT by way of double post - I mean, no way that I can see. Maybe he can see something that I can't. Or maybe it was just a joke. If so, it was sorta stupid.
If he was joking about the "quote your PM" thing... that still seems ill-advised. I mean, what if you had posted it? Assuming you're town (which we'll see if someone counterclaims or not) that's the equivalent of an extra nightkill for the mafia (which is not good).
Anyway; Maybe I was a bit hasty on definitely accusing Azrael, but my vote for him stands. Trying to get a free kill, no matter how unlikely, is something to be very suspicious of.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Actually there is more you can claim.
Can you paraphrase your role PM's flavor etc. without directly quoting?
What's a joke? :confused3:
Besides that, I was a little tempted to see if he would fabricate some kind of fake Boromir role claim and NOT get mod-killed for it. That would have been enjoyable. The other outcome, him getting mod-killed for actually posting a true boromir role PM, a situation I consider awfully unlikely, would at the least have cleared him of suspicion and saved us a lynch, don't you agree?
More like an extra lynch, actually. But I really doubted he was going to post a genuine Boromir PM.
Also, be careful not to hinge his innocence as automatic if no one counter-claims: I HIGHLY doubt that the entire fellowship is in the game.
I'd prefer not to give them any ideas.
As for the FOS of yourself, I thought that was a rather impressive way of demonstrating the uselessness of FOSes, but eh. I guess you didn't intend to use it that way.
Ooo, nice way to divert attention. Major mafia brownie points for that one, if you're scum.
What's the argument against him? The argument is that the setup seems to indicate a two mafia setup pretty clearly, and that he either made an incredibly bad mistake, or he's trying to false claim very clumsily.
Baiting the counter-claim if there is one, and trying to confirm him if there isn't. Decent trick for a mafia, and definitely one we'd need to watch for, since we're down our investigator.
As to what I can say, I am told my name, my goal(personal junk not actuall game), a small list of relatives, like a squire would prattle off. A description of ability, The win condition for good players that is in Axels first post, how to use my ability, my alignment; not in that order.(I hope I don't get modkilled, this is as general as I can make it and I'm not quoting anything)
Was it funny? Sure, I guess. But this isn't a humor contest.
You get a list of relatives???
Hmm. Interesting.
Well, at this stage of things your claim seems at least plausible enough to wait until tomorrow, and see what happens...
Really? Why? It seems like there should be room for all of them.
Other than that: I guess the "Post your PM" thing was a joke, it just seemed ill-advised to me. Maybe I overreacted.
PPE: Claim seems good, wait for more people to post. No need to hurry.
If he quoted his PM....I would've said he deserved the modkill.
Yeah, but then there wouldn't be room for hardly anyone else. If there's 7 scum roles, 9 fellowship, and 20 roles in the game to start with, then that's only 4 non-fellowship roles. Not that terribly likely, imo, although it could be true. We'll be able to tell better as time goes on.
I firmly believe in the entire fellowship existing. It IS the council of elrond.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Well, I don't want to give away too much, but my role was pretty generic and unexpected, actually, which leads me to believe that there are important non-fellowship characters that would logically make it in first. If there's only room for 4, I kind of doubt that my character would have made it as one of those 4 unless a good representation of additional non-fellowshippers also existed.
However, I could be wrong. At least you'll have a heads up about that in the event of a claim later on in the game.
@Axelrod: I think, much like in Mythos Mafia, there shouldn't be any punishment as he is new.
I firmly believe Enigma is town. He has claimed a mjor role, and there has been no counter-claim. He is, in my eyes, a confirmed townie. Everyone else should treat him the same (Hint at docter).
Now I think we have to take a look at the people on the hasty bandwagon, i.e LJustus, Armlx, Fayul, Deadly Budah. These were the people advocating lynching someone who I thought was fairly likely to be a towny. Now, I don't mind people voting in order to put pressure on people, put these people were voting to lynch. I'm going to follow reed's lead, and Unvote, Vote: Fayul, to put some pressure on him.
Also, if Enigma is mafia he plays an odd game. He was the first to propose the presence of a vig and started setting up his roleclaim very early for a role which could easily have been present (in the hands of a townie), then he plays in a way that gets lots of people trying to lynch him. Not good whether he's mafia or town, surely ?
As a consequence of which: FOS Azrael, for trying to engineer the death of a claimed vig. I'm sure the "paste role PM" thing was (meant to look like) a joke, but that's not all he's said.
I'll also be keeping a close eye on the people who voted for Enigma's lynch...
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Are you people even listening to me? Stop being sheeps! Look is Enigma had psted his real role PM he would have been modkilled and deserved it. Azrael is not more scummy because of the incident. Get it? Got it? Good.
Just because you were fairly certain of Enigma's "towniness" does not necessarily mean that those of us who didn't believe him are scummy. I feel I was fairly clear as to my reasoning for my vote. I did not believe his claim.
With the new information that we have available, I will unvote Enigma91.
Aurorasparrow & Azrael - I am keeping my eye on both of you. Though at this point, I am inclined to believe Az a little bit more due to some of his reasonings and similarities in what he said to my own reasoning and other information.
You can always edit via double post.
@dragyn_mage: I don't think my character was at the council. Not sure, though.
@daz_eater: Certainly it could be construed as a joke. However, he said something that could have led to the "accidental" death of a townie. Which is an extra kill for the mafia if he's a townie. Can you see why this might be suspicious?
Aurorasparrow has been somewhat suspicious for a while, but nothing concrete. My other suspicion lies, again, with worthawholebean. He's only posted twice, once to attempt to bandwagon suspicion on a (now) known townie, and the other with a "What?" So I'm somewhat suspicious of him.