For the record, a self-protecting Docter is by no means over-powered. If the docter has to self-protect each night, then he is simply a unkillable townie, and role which as been seen before (MTGnews Mafia Mafia, I believe Battlestar Gallactica Mafia).
I had no problems believing that a self-protected docter could exist, until Zoob's post... which is wierd... why wouldn't that be a PM? :confuse:
Either way, Vote: Hasted Quickling. Why? He's hinting at a role I don't believe to exist.
Why wasn't it a PM, because I'm lazy and didn't feel like PM-ing the doctor. Don't read anything into it. It means nothing.
In other news:
The townspeople chase Hasted Quickling down the street. He turns into an alley, but it's a dead end. With no place for him to run, the townspeople close in on him, and finish him off quickly.
Good to know that mafia can't bluff because zoob will out you. Thanks zoob.
Good to know that the mafia are still making assupmtions about the game before they have any knowledge.
You made a stupid hint when you didn't know for sure the nature of the game. No docter would ever reveal them selves day one. Basically, you suck, I stand by Zoob.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This is not The Greatest Post in the World, no. This is just a tribute.
Well my pills are white, the leather's black
My chick grips tight to my mutha ****in' back
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
I'm a hard hallucinator with an axe to grind
Shootin' from the hip like a porcupine
Either way Zoob had handled that, I think you still would have ended up getting lynched by the end of the day. There was already too much pressure on you by that point for you to survive.
I don't think getting bitter at Zoob over what happened is really going to help anything. What happened, happened. Now all that's left to do is learn from your mistakes, and come back wiser and tougher next time around.
I'm very very very very sorry about it. I made a mistake, and I feel terrible about it. I hope that we can get this game running smoothly, and I owe you my deepest apologies.
Anyways
The townspeople awake to find Pooh dead. He was a Townsperson. It's now day 2. Go.
Anyway, it think that we should look closer at the people that jumped on the bandwagon after the Zoob thing. Im talking about PWC, Chameleon, Tefo, RollHigher and Townie. At least one of these people is most likely a mafia jumping on the bandwagon, After is seems that HQ is definetly dead.
vote Sting Chameleon, for no other reason than being one of the last to vote
I already stated the reasons why I didn't go on the bandwagon until later:
Because up until Hasted Quickling got shot down by the Zoob, it was still unknown to me whether or not he could be a doctor or not, because I didn't think it was rediculous or anything for the doc to be able to self-protect.
If you need any further explanations, please ask. That's that summed up.
I already stated the reasons why I didn't go on the bandwagon until later:
Because up until Hasted Quickling got shot down by the Zoob, it was still unknown to me whether or not he could be a doctor or not, because I didn't think it was rediculous or anything for the doc to be able to self-protect.
If you need any further explanations, please ask. That's that summed up.
It's overpowered because it often allows the doctor to keep himself and the cop alive indefinitely, or much longer than they ought to. If the doctor plays smart, they can alternate protection between themselves and the cop, and have a pretty good chance of nullifying the mafia's kills once or twice, and buying the cop time to investigate, and for the town to lynch.
Also, the doc can then safely claim, or if they're exposed, they will actually survive rather than immediately die. In typical mafia games, they don't have those advantages (and the town is still usually favored to win 80-90% of the time).
But all that is immaterial to the question at hand. The fact of the matter is, you joined HQ in his quick, unjustifed wagon, and you came to his defense by making the improbable assertion that he might be a self-protecting doc. Even if you consider it to be fair, it's not a very likely scenario: a high majority of mods take the customary stance that doc self-protecting gives the town too much of an advantage.
I might be voting in your direction before much longer, since I'm pretty content that there's a moderately strong case against you, but I want to hear from a few more people first before we get a wagon rolling on anyone.
I might be getting overly paranoid here, but I believe that it's prudent to take a look at no es lo mismo. I mean, the whole trick there was relatively effective at douing one thing: Drawing the votes away from him.
Or maybe it simply was meant to be a joke. I thought it was funny, at least. Who knows?
Either way: there's no real evidence against him, so, I advise everyone think long and hard about any vote. I don't want anyone voting for him simply because of this post. It's just a (admittedly unlikely) theory to ponder.
Anyways, with only 4 on you, NoD, I have no choice but to vote for you. Why would you bring attention to yourself like that, and not only that, but reveal who you are when this is supposed to be a blind game? You had to know it would cause all this attention and controversy, and frankly, it's not looking too bright in my opinion.
Vote: NinjaofDeath
Lets not forget this brilliant post. Where PWC claims that he has no choice but to vote for you. That makes a lot of sence now dont it. In hindsight, this move was brilliant by NoD, so doesnt your face look red?
Ya know what I think? I might just be insanely paranoid but.....Couldn't this whole thing be set up by NoD?
Think about it, If your mafia, Then you want to make the town think that you are not mafia, so what is the most surefire way to do that?
Have one of your mafia buddies take the fall so you can be a confirmed townie. And making sure that people think that you are Azreal wouldn't hurt either would it? A sacrificed mafia member is nothing for a confirmed townie whos really mafia in my opinon. I would like to here other people's opinions before pursuing this theory.
@ no es lo mismo- Yeah, I'm a little hesitant to let HR off the hook, as well.
Quote from Myself »
Ya know what I think? I might just be insanely paranoid but.....Couldn't this whole thing be set up by NoD?
Of course it could.
Quote from myself »
Think about it, If your mafia, Then you want to make the town think that you are not mafia, so what is the most surefire way to do that?
Have one of your mafia buddies take the fall so you can be a confirmed townie. And making sure that people think that you are Azreal wouldn't hurt either would it? A sacrificed mafia member is nothing for a confirmed townie whos really mafia in my opinon. I would like to here other people's opinions before pursuing this theory.
Yeah, it's possible, and it's been tried before (though not by me). And that's a good reason to remain reasonably suspicious of everyone, and not to necessarily take anything for granted. But, you also don't want to distrust your strongest analysts just out of the specter of fear that they may be pulling a gambit on you.
It's a good thing to keep in the back of your mind as a general rule, but don't get too caught up in conspiracy theories. Eventually, every mafia screws up, and when they do, you've got to keep your eyes open for it. But if someone isn't giving you any bad signs, isn't slipping up, and is consistently finding mafia for you, it's usually best to keep them around for a while and simply keep an eye on them.
Lets not forget this brilliant post. Where PWC claims that he has no choice but to vote for you. That makes a lot of sence now dont it. In hindsight, this move was brilliant by NoD, so doesnt your face look red?
anyway, vote PWC
Fake Edit/Mod Suck up time: Happy Birthday Zoob!!
No, because you're overlooking the possibility of Ninja0fdeath setting this entire thing up.
Could you be a mafia member screwing it up pretty badly there by knowing an alliance with N0D?
theres no point in lynching nod right now when theres plenty of other reasonable targets (like me <_<). it could be a vast conspiracy, but it hasn't hurt us yet. even if nod is mafia he needs to mislead us something like 4 times to break remotely even (sacrificing a mafia for credibility, and eventually being lynched himself = 2 mafia dead). so give him another 4 days, dont blindly follow him and well be fine.
the rationale for voting him is horrible, as his claim actually helped the town.
Note my lack of a vote because I didn't find it plausible enough to place a vote on either of you two quite yet.
But that's still one of the most suspicious posts I've ever seen.
Oh please. Vote Plastic Watering can.
(OH SNAP I MUST BE MAFIA I'M AGREEING WITH AZ)
RollHigher, PWC, Tefo, and Myself are both looking very suspcious. The former two were late onto the HQ wagon, while trying to draw suspicion to Az; the latter two have just been attempting to steer the town away from suspicious targets to those whose cases have no merit.
vote Sting Chameleon, for no other reason than being one of the last to vote
The reason that I was late to vote was that I'm not on this account that often. But I agree that I should have spoken up sooner. (Truth be told, I actually did, but it was in may regular account, so I had to delete it. :p) Anyways, I'd like to abstain from voting for the moment, but I will FOS: PWC because he seems most suspicious, and I'll be watching RollHigher as well, but not quite as strongly, since I'm a bit more suspicious of PWC right now.
Vote: RollHigher. Why? I think he is mafia. (duh!)
This:
Quote from Rollhiger »
..shouldn't that have been a PM? I guess mr. doc will die tonight, then.
Then this:
I think we should let HQ talk before we lynch him.
Before finally voting for him when it was obvious he was going to die:
vote hasted
why fight the tide?
Lets put some pressure on him, and forget about conspiricy theories. Firstly, because a deliberate sacrifice on day 1 wouldnt be very effective, and secondly because it would be entirely uncalled for.
Lets see if RollHigher knows any of the keywords from the townsperson victory condition. This sort of confirmation only works once, but damn, RollHigher is the perfect choice. Especially as he has a high chance of being mafia, so we might even be able to get double duty out of the victory condition.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This is not The Greatest Post in the World, no. This is just a tribute.
Well my pills are white, the leather's black
My chick grips tight to my mutha ****in' back
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
I'm a hard hallucinator with an axe to grind
Shootin' from the hip like a porcupine
Lets see if RollHigher knows any of the keywords from the townsperson victory condition. This sort of confirmation only works once, but damn, RollHigher is the perfect choice.
I really doubt that working, besides I've been in games where the mafia got the town's keywords too, just to make sure they couldn't be outed that way. Then the mafia became confirmed townies and that's not good for anyone. But hey, why not give it a shot. Question, what post are the quotes you used from?
theres no point in lynching nod right now when theres plenty of other reasonable targets (like me <_<). it could be a vast conspiracy, but it hasn't hurt us yet. even if nod is mafia he needs to mislead us something like 4 times to break remotely even (sacrificing a mafia for credibility, and eventually being lynched himself = 2 mafia dead). so give him another 4 days, dont blindly follow him and well be fine.
the rationale for voting him is horrible, as his claim actually helped the town.
I agree. What he did worked. It also made him the focus of most peoples attention including any players with inspection abilities. (Stating the obvious)A ploy like the one described would be an extremely risky chance to take with active inspectors out there if he was mafia.
Quote from plastic watering can »
Thanks, Tefo, for the 8 billionth time.
Anyways, with only 4 on you, NoD, I have no choice but to vote for you. Why would you bring attention to yourself like that, and not only that, but reveal who you are when this is supposed to be a blind game? You had to know it would cause all this attention and controversy, and frankly, it's not looking too bright in my opinion.
Vote: NinjaofDeath
The faulty logic of this post was appearent at the time and is glaring now in hindsight.
Quote from plastic watering can »
I already stated the reasons why I didn't go on the bandwagon until later:
Because up until Hasted Quickling got shot down by the Zoob, it was still unknown to me whether or not he could be a doctor or not, because I didn't think it was rediculous or anything for the doc to be able to self-protect.
If you need any further explanations, please ask. That's that summed up.
As I stated I have played in two games with docs who could self protect, but that did not change the fact that the claim looked like a desperate gamble by a cornered mafia member.
vote PWC
Just the same reasons as every one else.
:trey:
Also a side note is that NoD wouldn't have had time to talk to Hasted Quickling because the game started at day. nod would have needed to trust that a mafia member would bandwagon him AND be the most suspisius. I don't like this account.
I'm rambling.
the latter two have just been attempting to steer the town away from suspicious targets to those whose cases have no merit.
I haven't been trying to "steer away" from anyone: I presented a quasi-plausible theory, and I made sure to do it BEFORE a bandwagon got rolling on anyone.
I could give you the victory condition, but, I'd prefer a way of proving myself that wouldn't keep the suscpions on myself. Basically, there are more members making more blantant accusations, soif you're not sure between them and I, remember that they're more valuable as a mafia member, as theyy're trying to get people killed during the day, as well.
Taht being said, PWC easily looks the most suspicious out of everyone, so, Vote: plastic watering can
You guys are really bad at bandwagoning, but anyways.
What my post intended to say was that I found NoD suspicious, and I voted for him. Nowhere was there any intention of defending Hasted at all; I found (and still do find) Ninjaofdeath suspicious and I voted for him. Plus, revealing yourself in a blind game is totally poor taste and I want to see you blacklisted if you're actually Azrael (I talked to Zoob, and I'm going to be modding the next blind game - so if you're actually Azrael, you're not playing in it. But that's a sidenote). So, for me, it was a 2-for-1 deal: Kill a suspected mafioso, and a ruiner of a blind game out of the game.
Why was I late to vote for Hasted Quickling? Three reasons:
-See one of my posts. I kind of pull a "multiple personalities" and argue with myself over whether Hasted could actually be the doctor or not. I was still debating at the time that I did that post.
-Next Zoob comes and basically owns him and proves he's a mafioso. Okay, I'm sorry if I have a life outside of the 'net, but depending on what I do socially, I wasn't able to get onto the internet until then.
-Now, I get on, and see that Hasted's either dead already or dead in a post or two. Imagine my Catch-22:
1) I could post and say "Yeah...you're mafia. VOTE HASTED," but then again, that'd be drawing negative attention to myself because the town isn't stupid. They'll see that I was reluctant to vote for Hasted when I thought the logic didn't have enough merit to warrant a vote quite yet; and then when he was dead, I voted for him. So the town's going to think that I'm a mafia member who voted late and was reluctant to vote for him and attack him.
2) I could not post at all. Bad idea, because people would be all over me even more because I didn't vote for a mafioso, and I also, in the town's eyes, defended him. That would give me more negative attention than option 1, IMO.
3) I could post and not vote for Hasted Quickling. This one's obvious and a lose-lose situation, because I'll get even MORE negative attention, I didn't do my job as a townie and kill mafia members. 3 was an obvious no.
Now, other than option 1 giving me the least amount of negative attention, why did I choose it? Because with the attacking I'd recieve tomorrow, I knew that I could at least attempt to defend myself in an easier manner.
Seriously. If I was a mafioso, don't you think that I'd be one of the first to attack Hasted because he's on my side and I want to look like a townie? Would I delibrately defend him or question the attack on him in any way? The answer to that is No, because I'd try to look as unnoticeable as humanly possible. But, I questioned the logic against him until it was basically proven that he was guilty, and when he came out to be mafia (and keep in mind I would know he'd be mafia), I'd obviously get heat. Which isn't what the town needs.
So, summed up: When I posted, I was wrong about Hasted. I had no real other choice. You want me to claim? Not sure if you'll believe it because it's generic, but I'm a simple vanilla townie.
Believe what you want. That's my defense. I'll continue to defend myself until I die, but it's your choice whether you accept it or not.
Anyways, with only 4 on you, NoD, I have no choice but to vote for you
You still have not explained this use of craptacular logic. Until you do, i will still vote for you. Are you sure you do not want to claim Doc? it would make our job really easy
On a side note, i am getting a bad feeling about imacoolone. Nothing really solid right now, but something about him is just rubbing me the right way. FOS imacoolone
anyways, I really don't think its fair to attack people for bandwagoning at the end, for a few reasons:
1) Mafia tend to keep their voting to a minimum, especially if its not necessary like on day one where the town will lynch anyone just to end the day.
2) the significant push for a lynch starts at the 3rd to 5th vote, not the trailing ones. After 6 votes a lynch is almost inevitable.
3) After 6 votes, what would you find not suspicious? People get attacked all the time for not voting off a mafia, and apparently they do for voting for them too. I want a real case against me if I'm going to be attacked.
RollHigher, dont you think that you are over reacting a little bit? Come on, it is one vote, and nobody else if even reacting to it. I might be wrong, but i dont think that any of the votes after Alphabet's post, anyone even refered to it.
Now that you mention it, you are looking quite to the scum. For one, you are over reacting to the one vote, plus everything that Alphabet said, and not to metion the fact that you first try to push the attention elsewhere (towards imacoolone) before dealing with the issue at hand.
This still aint enough for me to move my vote, but i will be watching you.
EWP: wow, that post really didnt come out the way i hoped, oh well.....
You still have not explained this use of craptacular logic. Until you do, i will still vote for you. Are you sure you do not want to claim Doc? it would make our job really easy
I told you. I found/still find NoD suspicious and at the time, I was fully convinced he was mafia.
I can understand where PwC is coming from even if this post makes you think I'm scum. After all, who among us hasn't mindlessly bandwaggoned once in a while.
Quote from plastic watering can »
1) I could post and say "Yeah...you're mafia. VOTE HASTED," but then again, that'd be drawing negative attention to myself because the town isn't stupid. They'll see that I was reluctant to vote for Hasted when I thought the logic didn't have enough merit to warrant a vote quite yet; and then when he was dead, I voted for him. So the town's going to think that I'm a mafia member who voted late and was reluctant to vote for him and attack him.
Makes sense to me.....
This is very true but the opposite is also true. I could vote for him. But Im not going to do so, and because of this Im probably going to be in his situation tommorow if he turns out to be mafia. Im doing this because I truly think he's just a townie who bandwaggoned heedlessly and didn't vote for someone who he thought was a townie. In fact why not just vote for me too, after all I didn't vote for Hasted either because I thought he was a Townie. After all my conspiricy theory could be right. NoD could just pulling the wool over our eyes........
anyways, I really don't think its fair to attack people for bandwagoning at the end, for a few reasons:
1) Mafia tend to keep their voting to a minimum, especially if its not necessary like on day one where the town will lynch anyone just to end the day.
2) the significant push for a lynch starts at the 3rd to 5th vote, not the trailing ones. After 6 votes a lynch is almost inevitable.
3) After 6 votes, what would you find not suspicious? People get attacked all the time for not voting off a mafia, and apparently they do for voting for them too. I want a real case against me if I'm going to be attacked.
1) Ha! I've never been mafia and I'm always conservative with my voting. I don't want to accidentally hurt the town when it can be avioded. While it might be true that mafia members may try to keep voting to a minimum, it means nothing because a townie is just a likely to vote conservatively.
2) I'm the first person to vote for you, and I'm making a signi***ant push. Why make a first vote if you don't intend to push it? Making a weak first vote strikes me as something a mafia member would do in the hopes that someone else would champion the bandwagon.
3) More importantly than voting Hasted late was the fact that you did not vote him early, before the bandwagon really got started. Frankly, it was almost obvious he was mafia, he made a huge screw up. Yet, while he had a chance of surviving, you didn't vote for him. Why? Because you are mafia and wanted him to survive.
Vote Stands. Lynch this scum.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This is not The Greatest Post in the World, no. This is just a tribute.
Well my pills are white, the leather's black
My chick grips tight to my mutha ****in' back
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
I'm a hard hallucinator with an axe to grind
Shootin' from the hip like a porcupine
Well sorry for lukering everyone but it appears about half of the people in this game are....SO here is what I am thinking:
RollHigher is scum. He seems scummy. Here is my reasoning:
He wants to give his scum friend alot of chances. He wants to let him talk. He wants to wait on a lynch. Seeing as he also over-reacted over one vote he seems even more scummy. So although my reasoning is thin, this has been a small game in terms of posts and we realyl need information, so
I'll be back as soon as I can to analyze the posts of our top two candidates, but I've got an economics test to study for, a paper to edit, and a long weekend with no access to a computer ahead of me. So, we'll see how it goes.
sorry for double, but I guess it doesn't matter much since these are blind; to clarify, I mean that Imnotmafia attacked PWC in the post previous to mine, and I was defending him since people were jumping all over him.
I'll be back as soon as I can to analyze the posts of our top two candidates, but I've got an economics test to study for, a paper to edit, and a long weekend with no access to a computer ahead of me. So, we'll see how it goes.
Just, like, vote for RollHigher. He's mafia.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This is not The Greatest Post in the World, no. This is just a tribute.
Well my pills are white, the leather's black
My chick grips tight to my mutha ****in' back
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
I'm a hard hallucinator with an axe to grind
Shootin' from the hip like a porcupine
Ok, let's see what we can find from a post-by-post.
Quote from RollHigher »
Well.that took entirely too long. I hope we don't have massive lurkers and such.
Enough small talk. hi, vote pooh because.
Not much here. He random votes a townie, nothing too unusual.
Quote from RollHigher »
Not at all, except we're a bit more prone to blacklist people.
Couldn't remember the greatest post in the world, no.. this is just a tribute
I think I know who somebody is, not that it matters. The only person who should care about people knowing their identity is Azrael, even though he has been not as stellar in his games since mafia and maybe world domination. I'd say more but I think I'm already giving away myself a bit, so I'll stop. (I'm not tenacious d)
Here he reveals that he's played in mafia mafia, and world domination, as well as a few games since then. Thus, we know he's an experienced player.
Quote from RollHigher »
you guys are ridiculous. and i hate learning new names too.
less tomfoolery and more serious discussion.
no mafia reveals themself this early, and no mafia bandwagons this early. the more likely are the non-inflammatory non-voters. oops, thats me.
vote no es la misma because i have a feeling he will not post much or do much constructive stuff.
(thanks to "Myself", I think speaking in the 3rd person will make this post easier to understand)
The first of his scummy posts. Here, he states that the mafia never bandwagons this early: a statement that has been disproven quite dramatically. In his favor, he balances that assessment with a defense of NoD, but at this point the momentum was against Hasted. All in all, that post would aid Hasted more than it would help the town since it was aimed at defusing a growing bandwagon against HQ, and steering the town away from the debate over NoD's revelation. As long as the debate was focused there, the outcome was a black and white choice of either NoD or HQ for the lynch, with NoD as the likely winner, so the mafia would need to divert attention elsewhere in order to keep their man alive.
Lastly, he follows this up with a vote against no es lo mismo, on the basis that he won't be of much help to the town. However, every townie has value no matter how faulty their analysis, so a vote on no es lo without any indications of scumminess was not a helpful move for the town. It may have been a second attempt to divert discussion elsewhere than on the NoD/HQ confrontation.
Quote from RollHigher »
"back to basics" in the title suggests a normal game, doesn't it? I don't think the mafia would claim doc knowing they could be ratted out.
Here he supports HQ's assertion that he's the doc, on the basis that HQ would be setting himself up to be counter-claimed and killed. However, that logic is ignoring the fact that claiming doc is a very common tactic for dying scum to try to force the true doc into the open, so he can be destroyed.
Quote from RollHigher »
PWC: having a doc who can self-protect essentially lowers the mafia count by one, since if one mafia remains they can't win.
Makes a faulty analysis, but not a scummy one. It tends to discredit HQ's claim as unlikely.
Quote from RollHigher »
..shouldn't that have been a PM? I guess mr. doc will die tonight, then.
Here, he changes gears a bit and supports the (scummy) idea that HQ should be left alone for a night, as a method to "prove" his innocence.
Quote from RollHigher »
I think we should let HQ talk before we lynch him.
Again, he supports a cautious approach towards HQ, tries to give him a last chance.
Quote from RollHigher »
vote hasted
why fight the tide?
Makes a complete turn-around from his earlier stance. Where before he urged caution, he now proceeds to jump on the bandwagon. It is possible that he may have begun to develop doubts about HQ by this point, but if so, why is the only explanation for his change of heart that it is useless to "fight the tide", and defend him any further?
If you're a townie who believes in someone's innocence, you don't push a bandwagon you see as faulty just because it's inevitable, you abstain from voting. But, if you're a mafia trying to establish cover, giving up the fight and turning on a compatriot in the late stages of a wagon is a common tactic.
Quote from RollHigher »
theres no point in lynching nod right now when theres plenty of other reasonable targets (like me <_<). it could be a vast conspiracy, but it hasn't hurt us yet. even if nod is mafia he needs to mislead us something like 4 times to break remotely even (sacrificing a mafia for credibility, and eventually being lynched himself = 2 mafia dead). so give him another 4 days, dont blindly follow him and well be fine.
the rationale for voting him is horrible, as his claim actually helped the town.
Provides solid logic for why a gambit such as Myself was suggesting would be a suicidal move for the mafia.
(could be construed as sucking up to a prolific townie analyst)
Quote from RollHigher »
when did I attempt to draw suspicion to az?
Raises a valid objection to one point of the case against him, but ignores the other accusations against him, for the moment.
anyways, I really don't think its fair to attack people for bandwagoning at the end, for a few reasons:
1) Mafia tend to keep their voting to a minimum, especially if its not necessary like on day one where the town will lynch anyone just to end the day.
2) the significant push for a lynch starts at the 3rd to 5th vote, not the trailing ones. After 6 votes a lynch is almost inevitable.
3) After 6 votes, what would you find not suspicious? People get attacked all the time for not voting off a mafia, and apparently they do for voting for them too. I want a real case against me if I'm going to be attacked.
Defends late bandwagoners, but ignores the common tactic by mafia to turn on their own towards the end, as an attempt to get cover.
Also, as a clarification: you weren't being attacked for voting late: you were being attacked for voting late after having tacitly defending or attempting to turn attention away from HQ throughout the thread. It's that combination that looks suspicious.
Meh. I've run out of time, and I need to go to class now. There's a few posts I missed later on, but I think I hit the highlights of the case versus HR.
It's a fairly strong one, but I believe there's also very good reason to suspect PWC. Next time I stop in, I'll try to elaborate on that and try to figure out which has the stronger case against them.
(thanks to "Myself", I think speaking in the 3rd person will make this post easier to understand)
I'm glad to have helped, and I never thought I was capable of such a long post or in-depth thinking :grin2:
Anyways, NoD's logic is solid (It could still be all set up!) and now that I see the case in a straight forward post I will Vote:RollHigher.
I will probably unvote but I am convinced. For now.
@Myselft you are not helping the cause any your self. You are not posting anymore that anyone else.
Anyway, Im not posting that much, because i dont have that much to add to the conversation. But if i must.... i will vote rollhigher. Unfortunetly this seems to be the growing trend. I do find him scummy, for various reasons, all pointed out before me. I dont think that he is scummy as PWC, but in the interest of keeping the game going...
I'm still a little suspicious of NoD, as keeping in the third person helps keep him aloof and distance him from the game. PWC also seems to be building a small case against him.
However, I do agree with NoD's analysis. My point is that we shouldn't write him off the chopping block yet, even though he has provided some good analysis. I am leaning towards supporting him here.
Also, way not to deal with the 6(!) votes on you. If you are town, you have a simple way to prove it. The fact that you don't confirms your mafioso status. Die scum die.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This is not The Greatest Post in the World, no. This is just a tribute.
Well my pills are white, the leather's black
My chick grips tight to my mutha ****in' back
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
I'm a hard hallucinator with an axe to grind
Shootin' from the hip like a porcupine
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Why wasn't it a PM, because I'm lazy and didn't feel like PM-ing the doctor. Don't read anything into it. It means nothing.
In other news:
The townspeople chase Hasted Quickling down the street. He turns into an alley, but it's a dead end. With no place for him to run, the townspeople close in on him, and finish him off quickly.
Hasted Quickling was Mafia. What're the odds?
It's now night one. Do your thing.
Good to know that the mafia are still making assupmtions about the game before they have any knowledge.
You made a stupid hint when you didn't know for sure the nature of the game. No docter would ever reveal them selves day one. Basically, you suck, I stand by Zoob.
My chick grips tight to my mutha ****in' back
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
I'm a hard hallucinator with an axe to grind
Shootin' from the hip like a porcupine
I don't think getting bitter at Zoob over what happened is really going to help anything. What happened, happened. Now all that's left to do is learn from your mistakes, and come back wiser and tougher next time around.
Anyways
The townspeople awake to find Pooh dead. He was a Townsperson. It's now day 2. Go.
Anyway, it think that we should look closer at the people that jumped on the bandwagon after the Zoob thing. Im talking about PWC, Chameleon, Tefo, RollHigher and Townie. At least one of these people is most likely a mafia jumping on the bandwagon, After is seems that HQ is definetly dead.
vote Sting Chameleon, for no other reason than being one of the last to vote
Because up until Hasted Quickling got shot down by the Zoob, it was still unknown to me whether or not he could be a doctor or not, because I didn't think it was rediculous or anything for the doc to be able to self-protect.
If you need any further explanations, please ask. That's that summed up.
It's overpowered because it often allows the doctor to keep himself and the cop alive indefinitely, or much longer than they ought to. If the doctor plays smart, they can alternate protection between themselves and the cop, and have a pretty good chance of nullifying the mafia's kills once or twice, and buying the cop time to investigate, and for the town to lynch.
Also, the doc can then safely claim, or if they're exposed, they will actually survive rather than immediately die. In typical mafia games, they don't have those advantages (and the town is still usually favored to win 80-90% of the time).
But all that is immaterial to the question at hand. The fact of the matter is, you joined HQ in his quick, unjustifed wagon, and you came to his defense by making the improbable assertion that he might be a self-protecting doc. Even if you consider it to be fair, it's not a very likely scenario: a high majority of mods take the customary stance that doc self-protecting gives the town too much of an advantage.
I might be voting in your direction before much longer, since I'm pretty content that there's a moderately strong case against you, but I want to hear from a few more people first before we get a wagon rolling on anyone.
Or maybe it simply was meant to be a joke. I thought it was funny, at least. Who knows?
Either way: there's no real evidence against him, so, I advise everyone think long and hard about any vote. I don't want anyone voting for him simply because of this post. It's just a (admittedly unlikely) theory to ponder.
Lets not forget this brilliant post. Where PWC claims that he has no choice but to vote for you. That makes a lot of sence now dont it. In hindsight, this move was brilliant by NoD, so doesnt your face look red?
anyway, vote PWC
Fake Edit/Mod Suck up time: Happy Birthday Zoob!!
Think about it, If your mafia, Then you want to make the town think that you are not mafia, so what is the most surefire way to do that?
Have one of your mafia buddies take the fall so you can be a confirmed townie. And making sure that people think that you are Azreal wouldn't hurt either would it? A sacrificed mafia member is nothing for a confirmed townie whos really mafia in my opinon. I would like to here other people's opinions before pursuing this theory.
Of course it could.
Yeah, it's possible, and it's been tried before (though not by me). And that's a good reason to remain reasonably suspicious of everyone, and not to necessarily take anything for granted. But, you also don't want to distrust your strongest analysts just out of the specter of fear that they may be pulling a gambit on you.
It's a good thing to keep in the back of your mind as a general rule, but don't get too caught up in conspiracy theories. Eventually, every mafia screws up, and when they do, you've got to keep your eyes open for it. But if someone isn't giving you any bad signs, isn't slipping up, and is consistently finding mafia for you, it's usually best to keep them around for a while and simply keep an eye on them.
No, because you're overlooking the possibility of Ninja0fdeath setting this entire thing up.
Could you be a mafia member screwing it up pretty badly there by knowing an alliance with N0D?
FOS FOS FOS ImNotMafia and Ninja0fDeath
Oh please. Vote Plastic Watering can.
Note my lack of a vote because I didn't find it plausible enough to place a vote on either of you two quite yet.
But that's still one of the most suspicious posts I've ever seen.
the rationale for voting him is horrible, as his claim actually helped the town.
Oh please. Vote Plastic Watering can.
(OH SNAP I MUST BE MAFIA I'M AGREEING WITH AZ)
RollHigher, PWC, Tefo, and Myself are both looking very suspcious. The former two were late onto the HQ wagon, while trying to draw suspicion to Az; the latter two have just been attempting to steer the town away from suspicious targets to those whose cases have no merit.
This:
Then this: Before finally voting for him when it was obvious he was going to die:
Lets put some pressure on him, and forget about conspiricy theories. Firstly, because a deliberate sacrifice on day 1 wouldnt be very effective, and secondly because it would be entirely uncalled for.
Lets see if RollHigher knows any of the keywords from the townsperson victory condition. This sort of confirmation only works once, but damn, RollHigher is the perfect choice. Especially as he has a high chance of being mafia, so we might even be able to get double duty out of the victory condition.
My chick grips tight to my mutha ****in' back
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
I'm a hard hallucinator with an axe to grind
Shootin' from the hip like a porcupine
I really doubt that working, besides I've been in games where the mafia got the town's keywords too, just to make sure they couldn't be outed that way. Then the mafia became confirmed townies and that's not good for anyone. But hey, why not give it a shot. Question, what post are the quotes you used from?
I agree. What he did worked. It also made him the focus of most peoples attention including any players with inspection abilities. (Stating the obvious)A ploy like the one described would be an extremely risky chance to take with active inspectors out there if he was mafia.
The faulty logic of this post was appearent at the time and is glaring now in hindsight.
As I stated I have played in two games with docs who could self protect, but that did not change the fact that the claim looked like a desperate gamble by a cornered mafia member.
Vote: plastic watering can
Just the same reasons as every one else.
:trey:
Also a side note is that NoD wouldn't have had time to talk to Hasted Quickling because the game started at day. nod would have needed to trust that a mafia member would bandwagon him AND be the most suspisius. I don't like this account.
I'm rambling.
I haven't been trying to "steer away" from anyone: I presented a quasi-plausible theory, and I made sure to do it BEFORE a bandwagon got rolling on anyone.
I could give you the victory condition, but, I'd prefer a way of proving myself that wouldn't keep the suscpions on myself. Basically, there are more members making more blantant accusations, soif you're not sure between them and I, remember that they're more valuable as a mafia member, as theyy're trying to get people killed during the day, as well.
Taht being said, PWC easily looks the most suspicious out of everyone, so, Vote: plastic watering can
What my post intended to say was that I found NoD suspicious, and I voted for him. Nowhere was there any intention of defending Hasted at all; I found (and still do find) Ninjaofdeath suspicious and I voted for him. Plus, revealing yourself in a blind game is totally poor taste and I want to see you blacklisted if you're actually Azrael (I talked to Zoob, and I'm going to be modding the next blind game - so if you're actually Azrael, you're not playing in it. But that's a sidenote). So, for me, it was a 2-for-1 deal: Kill a suspected mafioso, and a ruiner of a blind game out of the game.
Why was I late to vote for Hasted Quickling? Three reasons:
-See one of my posts. I kind of pull a "multiple personalities" and argue with myself over whether Hasted could actually be the doctor or not. I was still debating at the time that I did that post.
-Next Zoob comes and basically owns him and proves he's a mafioso. Okay, I'm sorry if I have a life outside of the 'net, but depending on what I do socially, I wasn't able to get onto the internet until then.
-Now, I get on, and see that Hasted's either dead already or dead in a post or two. Imagine my Catch-22:
1) I could post and say "Yeah...you're mafia. VOTE HASTED," but then again, that'd be drawing negative attention to myself because the town isn't stupid. They'll see that I was reluctant to vote for Hasted when I thought the logic didn't have enough merit to warrant a vote quite yet; and then when he was dead, I voted for him. So the town's going to think that I'm a mafia member who voted late and was reluctant to vote for him and attack him.
2) I could not post at all. Bad idea, because people would be all over me even more because I didn't vote for a mafioso, and I also, in the town's eyes, defended him. That would give me more negative attention than option 1, IMO.
3) I could post and not vote for Hasted Quickling. This one's obvious and a lose-lose situation, because I'll get even MORE negative attention, I didn't do my job as a townie and kill mafia members. 3 was an obvious no.
Now, other than option 1 giving me the least amount of negative attention, why did I choose it? Because with the attacking I'd recieve tomorrow, I knew that I could at least attempt to defend myself in an easier manner.
Seriously. If I was a mafioso, don't you think that I'd be one of the first to attack Hasted because he's on my side and I want to look like a townie? Would I delibrately defend him or question the attack on him in any way? The answer to that is No, because I'd try to look as unnoticeable as humanly possible. But, I questioned the logic against him until it was basically proven that he was guilty, and when he came out to be mafia (and keep in mind I would know he'd be mafia), I'd obviously get heat. Which isn't what the town needs.
So, summed up: When I posted, I was wrong about Hasted. I had no real other choice. You want me to claim? Not sure if you'll believe it because it's generic, but I'm a simple vanilla townie.
Believe what you want. That's my defense. I'll continue to defend myself until I die, but it's your choice whether you accept it or not.
You still have not explained this use of craptacular logic. Until you do, i will still vote for you. Are you sure you do not want to claim Doc? it would make our job really easy
On a side note, i am getting a bad feeling about imacoolone. Nothing really solid right now, but something about him is just rubbing me the right way. FOS imacoolone
anyways, I really don't think its fair to attack people for bandwagoning at the end, for a few reasons:
1) Mafia tend to keep their voting to a minimum, especially if its not necessary like on day one where the town will lynch anyone just to end the day.
2) the significant push for a lynch starts at the 3rd to 5th vote, not the trailing ones. After 6 votes a lynch is almost inevitable.
3) After 6 votes, what would you find not suspicious? People get attacked all the time for not voting off a mafia, and apparently they do for voting for them too. I want a real case against me if I'm going to be attacked.
Now that you mention it, you are looking quite to the scum. For one, you are over reacting to the one vote, plus everything that Alphabet said, and not to metion the fact that you first try to push the attention elsewhere (towards imacoolone) before dealing with the issue at hand.
This still aint enough for me to move my vote, but i will be watching you.
EWP: wow, that post really didnt come out the way i hoped, oh well.....
I told you. I found/still find NoD suspicious and at the time, I was fully convinced he was mafia.
Makes sense to me.....
This is very true but the opposite is also true. I could vote for him. But Im not going to do so, and because of this Im probably going to be in his situation tommorow if he turns out to be mafia. Im doing this because I truly think he's just a townie who bandwaggoned heedlessly and didn't vote for someone who he thought was a townie. In fact why not just vote for me too, after all I didn't vote for Hasted either because I thought he was a Townie. After all my conspiricy theory could be right. NoD could just pulling the wool over our eyes........
1) Ha! I've never been mafia and I'm always conservative with my voting. I don't want to accidentally hurt the town when it can be avioded. While it might be true that mafia members may try to keep voting to a minimum, it means nothing because a townie is just a likely to vote conservatively.
2) I'm the first person to vote for you, and I'm making a signi***ant push. Why make a first vote if you don't intend to push it? Making a weak first vote strikes me as something a mafia member would do in the hopes that someone else would champion the bandwagon.
3) More importantly than voting Hasted late was the fact that you did not vote him early, before the bandwagon really got started. Frankly, it was almost obvious he was mafia, he made a huge screw up. Yet, while he had a chance of surviving, you didn't vote for him. Why? Because you are mafia and wanted him to survive.
Vote Stands. Lynch this scum.
My chick grips tight to my mutha ****in' back
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
I'm a hard hallucinator with an axe to grind
Shootin' from the hip like a porcupine
RollHigher is scum. He seems scummy. Here is my reasoning:
He wants to give his scum friend alot of chances. He wants to let him talk. He wants to wait on a lynch. Seeing as he also over-reacted over one vote he seems even more scummy. So although my reasoning is thin, this has been a small game in terms of posts and we realyl need information, so
Vote: RollHigher
I'll be back as soon as I can to analyze the posts of our top two candidates, but I've got an economics test to study for, a paper to edit, and a long weekend with no access to a computer ahead of me. So, we'll see how it goes.
my post 136 was meant to defend PWC, not myself. I'm not that paranoid.
Just, like, vote for RollHigher. He's mafia.
My chick grips tight to my mutha ****in' back
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
I'm a hard hallucinator with an axe to grind
Shootin' from the hip like a porcupine
Not much here. He random votes a townie, nothing too unusual.
Here he reveals that he's played in mafia mafia, and world domination, as well as a few games since then. Thus, we know he's an experienced player.
(thanks to "Myself", I think speaking in the 3rd person will make this post easier to understand)
The first of his scummy posts. Here, he states that the mafia never bandwagons this early: a statement that has been disproven quite dramatically. In his favor, he balances that assessment with a defense of NoD, but at this point the momentum was against Hasted. All in all, that post would aid Hasted more than it would help the town since it was aimed at defusing a growing bandwagon against HQ, and steering the town away from the debate over NoD's revelation. As long as the debate was focused there, the outcome was a black and white choice of either NoD or HQ for the lynch, with NoD as the likely winner, so the mafia would need to divert attention elsewhere in order to keep their man alive.
Lastly, he follows this up with a vote against no es lo mismo, on the basis that he won't be of much help to the town. However, every townie has value no matter how faulty their analysis, so a vote on no es lo without any indications of scumminess was not a helpful move for the town. It may have been a second attempt to divert discussion elsewhere than on the NoD/HQ confrontation.
Here he supports HQ's assertion that he's the doc, on the basis that HQ would be setting himself up to be counter-claimed and killed. However, that logic is ignoring the fact that claiming doc is a very common tactic for dying scum to try to force the true doc into the open, so he can be destroyed.
Makes a faulty analysis, but not a scummy one. It tends to discredit HQ's claim as unlikely.
Here, he changes gears a bit and supports the (scummy) idea that HQ should be left alone for a night, as a method to "prove" his innocence.
Again, he supports a cautious approach towards HQ, tries to give him a last chance.
Makes a complete turn-around from his earlier stance. Where before he urged caution, he now proceeds to jump on the bandwagon. It is possible that he may have begun to develop doubts about HQ by this point, but if so, why is the only explanation for his change of heart that it is useless to "fight the tide", and defend him any further?
If you're a townie who believes in someone's innocence, you don't push a bandwagon you see as faulty just because it's inevitable, you abstain from voting. But, if you're a mafia trying to establish cover, giving up the fight and turning on a compatriot in the late stages of a wagon is a common tactic.
Provides solid logic for why a gambit such as Myself was suggesting would be a suicidal move for the mafia.
(could be construed as sucking up to a prolific townie analyst)
Raises a valid objection to one point of the case against him, but ignores the other accusations against him, for the moment.
Defends late bandwagoners, but ignores the common tactic by mafia to turn on their own towards the end, as an attempt to get cover.
Also, as a clarification: you weren't being attacked for voting late: you were being attacked for voting late after having tacitly defending or attempting to turn attention away from HQ throughout the thread. It's that combination that looks suspicious.
Meh. I've run out of time, and I need to go to class now. There's a few posts I missed later on, but I think I hit the highlights of the case versus HR.
It's a fairly strong one, but I believe there's also very good reason to suspect PWC. Next time I stop in, I'll try to elaborate on that and try to figure out which has the stronger case against them.
I'm glad to have helped, and I never thought I was capable of such a long post or in-depth thinking :grin2:
Anyways, NoD's logic is solid (It could still be all set up!) and now that I see the case in a straight forward post I will Vote:RollHigher.
I will probably unvote but I am convinced. For now.
My chick grips tight to my mutha ****in' back
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
I'm a hard hallucinator with an axe to grind
Shootin' from the hip like a porcupine
oh yeah when is the deadline for the day?
Anyway, Im not posting that much, because i dont have that much to add to the conversation. But if i must.... i will vote rollhigher. Unfortunetly this seems to be the growing trend. I do find him scummy, for various reasons, all pointed out before me. I dont think that he is scummy as PWC, but in the interest of keeping the game going...
However, I do agree with NoD's analysis. My point is that we shouldn't write him off the chopping block yet, even though he has provided some good analysis. I am leaning towards supporting him here.
Vote: RollHigher
This continued suspicion of NoN only makes me suspicious of you.
As far as I can tell, there are 6 votes on RollHigher. If he can quote the town victory condition, I will unvote. Anything less, and my vote stands.
My chick grips tight to my mutha ****in' back
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
I'm a hard hallucinator with an axe to grind
Shootin' from the hip like a porcupine
Ikzann, you aren't allowed to edit your posts...
My chick grips tight to my mutha ****in' back
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
I'm a hard hallucinator with an axe to grind
Shootin' from the hip like a porcupine
I say "bah!" to the doubel post rule.
Also, way not to deal with the 6(!) votes on you. If you are town, you have a simple way to prove it. The fact that you don't confirms your mafioso status. Die scum die.
My chick grips tight to my mutha ****in' back
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
Oh, I'm a mutha ****a on a motorcycle
I'm a hard hallucinator with an axe to grind
Shootin' from the hip like a porcupine