Looking for some feedback on a Damia Control deck I have been testing for awhile. The list tends to have three stages of play, ramping through the early game and putting down a early damia, maybe with counter backup or greaves. Then it tends to control the board, and advance to a winning board state or take infinite turns to lock out the rest of the board and eventually win, although it usually warrants a table scoop. I would like to make the deck more competitive, so any suggestions would be appreciated, and I will attempt to make them as soon as possible.
I'm aware of a few things I need. The mana base could definitely use some work. I also need fetches to make crucible better in the deck, right now it's mostly to recover from LD and combo with Walk. All suggestions appreciated.
EDIT1: I have changed quite a few things in the deck, and upped the land count. I wanted to move away from 1-1 answers outside of counters.
EDIT2: I have updated the list for the first time in months. The mana fixing is significantly better now, along with a few upgrades, and I like to think in general a more stream-lined, faster deck. Any new suggestions anybody, the budget for this deck is fairly high.
The list definitely is solid. Most of the singles I have in other decks, like Mana Reflection and Deadeye, but it would take a rather long time to accrue the rather impressive mana base. Out of the cards in your list that I dont have in yet, what would you identify as primary role players?
EDIT: I have also found winning with this deck to be very easy by the way. The three best colors in EDH with a potent general and powerful things to do at all stages of the game is a winning deck.
Indeed good sir. Welcome to the big leagues. As for the big roles, that would be Tooth and Nail for Palinchron and Deadeye Navigator gaining you infinite mana with only 3 lands in play and then casting Exsanguinate for somewhere around 100. Your already playing a good bit of the other good stuff.
Edit: as for the mana base, just take your time and accrue them one piece at a time. Thats what i did and i just finished this mana base earlier this year. Lot of money spent but money well spent.
If you want to win off Tooth and Nail just get Mike and Trike. Previously the best way to do it was get Eternal Witness (getting back TnN) and Palinchron, then TnN for Phyrexian Metamorph (copying Palinchron) and Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger, then make infinite mana and cast the Clone as E. Wit, getting and casting TnN for Oona, Queen of the Fae. Mikaeus' printing made this whole thing (and worse combos that require other cards in hand like Exsangguinate) irrelevant (2 slots as opposed to 5, and Mike is a good card on his own). It's not very fun but if your stated goal is to drag things into the late game then combo out, Mike n Trike is the best way to do it.
You're also missing some definite Damia staples like Insidious Dreams and Words of Waste. I also think Exploration, Burgeoning and Manabond should be in every Damia deck. Stuff that grants flash is very good here as well as players are going to want to kill Damia on sight. If you're looking for what to cut I'd start with Venser's Journal (just a bad card) and Greaves and Boots (who cares if Damia has haste).
Edit: also you need at least 4-5 more land.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: Humanimator
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
If you want to win off Tooth and Nail just get Mike and Trike. Previously the best way to do it was get Eternal Witness (getting back TnN) and Palinchron, then TnN for Phyrexian Metamorph (copying Palinchron) and Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger, then make infinite mana and cast the Clone as E. Wit, getting and casting TnN for Oona, Queen of the Fae. Mikaeus' printing made this whole thing (and worse combos that require other cards in hand like Exsangguinate) irrelevant (2 slots as opposed to 5, and Mike is a good card on his own). It's not very fun but if your stated goal is to drag things into the late game then combo out, Mike n Trike is the best way to do it.
You're also missing some definite Damia staples like Insidious Dreams and Words of Waste. I also think Exploration, Burgeoning and Manabond should be in every Damia deck. Stuff that grants flash is very good here as well as players are going to want to kill Damia on sight. If you're looking for what to cut I'd start with Venser's Journal (just a bad card) and Greaves and Boots (who cares if Damia has haste).
Edit: also you need at least 4-5 more land.
Mike and Trike loses to instant speed grave hate which should be in every deck. You have to work harder than that to stop Palinchron and Deadeye.
Exsanguinate doesn't have to be in hand cause you use Rune Scarred Demon to find them when you cast TnN the third time. Or you just have a bunch of tutors in your deck in general.
If you want to win off Tooth and Nail just get Mike and Trike. Previously the best way to do it was get Eternal Witness (getting back TnN) and Palinchron, then TnN for Phyrexian Metamorph (copying Palinchron) and Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger, then make infinite mana and cast the Clone as E. Wit, getting and casting TnN for Oona, Queen of the Fae. Mikaeus' printing made this whole thing (and worse combos that require other cards in hand like Exsangguinate) irrelevant (2 slots as opposed to 5, and Mike is a good card on his own). It's not very fun but if your stated goal is to drag things into the late game then combo out, Mike n Trike is the best way to do it.
You're also missing some definite Damia staples like Insidious Dreams and Words of Waste. I also think Exploration, Burgeoning and Manabond should be in every Damia deck. Stuff that grants flash is very good here as well as players are going to want to kill Damia on sight. If you're looking for what to cut I'd start with Venser's Journal (just a bad card) and Greaves and Boots (who cares if Damia has haste).
Edit: also you need at least 4-5 more land.
The Insidious Dreams is actually on loan, and I understand the other cards, but I hadn't considered Words of Waste. I have one lying around, I might just stick it in to try it. I started running the journal as a bad form of lifegain because the game usually turns into a 3v1 with this deck, but I agree it's underwhelming. Greaves and boots are for the protection over the haste, but they are rather underwhelming. Tooth and Nail is probably the card to pick up first. What do you guys think of Coffer-borg in a list with primeval? I was considering picking it up, it seems good, but not having played with it I don't have a definitive answer.
EDIT: I'd be comfortable going up to 37, especially with exploration/burgeoning in the deck, but 39 seems like a lot of land for a deck that has mana ramp. I do tend towards the land light with edh though, so maybe I'm just being greedy.
I changed the list a bit, but haven't been able to get a hold on a cofferborg as of yet. x.x I'm not sure on Chord of Calling, but it is an extremely powerful card. I've been winning most of my games lately with the deck, to the point that my friends attempt to hate it off the table, but it is my competitive deck so continue to attempt to increase the power I will.
Comments, advice, criticism, and questions are all welcome.
The ddck looks solid except for the mana base is pretty rough and thada the most important part of the deck. Most of the la ds you need are steep 9 fetches and 6 duals can eat your wallet but they are irreplaceable I do t even know what crucible does for you without fetches and strips. Sunken ruins twilight mire flooded grove are cheap and amazing. Exotic orchard is good even forbidden at this point in your list. City of brass and the pain lands are also not bad and the new storage lands are pretty decent too.
The ddck looks solid except for the mana base is pretty rough and thada the most important part of the deck. Most of the la ds you need are steep 9 fetches and 6 duals can eat your wallet but they are irreplaceable I do t even know what crucible does for you without fetches and strips. Sunken ruins twilight mire flooded grove are cheap and amazing. Exotic orchard is good even forbidden at this point in your list. City of brass and the pain lands are also not bad and the new storage lands are pretty decent too.
Crucible is mostly in there for the combo atm. Crucible+Azusa+Walk the Aeons was my kill con until rather recently. I also made this deck on a bit of a budget, I've actually spent maybe $100 on it. The lands are obvious, and they will come as I get the cash, although I felt in a deck with powerful ramp and draw the mana base could serve to take a hit, particularly when the most expensive land in any of my groups decks is an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. I am going to set my immediate card acquiring sites on the shadowmoor filters, the zendikar fetches, the shocks(Fingers crossed on reprints) and a few of the newer, modern bordered lands before worrying about Revised duals. I could also probably get my hands on a strip mine fairly easily.
As is I can mull into fixing/draw enough of the time to win multiplayer games a majority of the time, but I'm aware that a robust mana base will greatly decrease my mulligan %. I'm going to work on it, but any more advice in the meantime would be greatly appreciated.
In the past few months, I have greatly improved the mana base, although it is not optimized yet(darn ABU duals and Onslaught fetches), and made some upgrades to the list in general. I tested a few cards and discarded them, and am back for some more ideas on my competitive BUG list.
Top is a great card, and I've been considering picking up copies for a lot of decks. But it is a small impact card. I'm wondering if the card is actually worth it in what is nearly dedicated combo. I've not gotten the chance to test it in deck yet, maybe I should proxy one up?
Contrary to popular belief, I don't think it's good in every list. Sometimes the card doesn't do a lot. It's definitely strong enough to test, but I don't think it's an auto include. I do like it quite a bit with Oracle particularly. Future Sight is just good on its own.
It will obviously go in when I get one, but I was wondering if it was a large enough upgrade over/different enough from Personal Tutor that I needed to acquire it asap. I'm thinking I might take out Personal Tutor for it, but I'm not sure. There are some other minor upgrades I'm thinking of, like I think I want Intuition for Realms Uncharted, but I don't think Vamp takes priority over a top or improving the mana base.
Well I don't agree but top is very good. Vamp tutor is a card that's never bad good turn 1-10 and goes well with top ^^. I mainly disagree becuase tutor count is very important missing one if the best ones hurts consistancy. Personal tutor is a fine card here you have worse cards IMO but top is better.
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Eternal Witness
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Seedborn Muse
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Myojin of Night's Reach
1x Phantasmal Image
1x Palinchron
1x Sphinx of Magosi
1x Deadeye Navigator
1x Time Stretch
1x Cultivate
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Damnation
1x Walk the Aeons
1x Time Warp
1x Explosive Vegetation
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Personal Tutor
1x Diabolic Revelation
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Demonic Collusion
1x Decree of Pain
1x Consuming Vapors
1x Exsanguinate
1x Farseek
1x Forbid
1x Spell Crumple
1x Hinder
1x Pact of Negation
1x Mindbreak Trap
1x Counterspell
1x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Capsize
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
1x Beast Within
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Chord of Calling
1x Crop Rotation
1x Realms Uncharted
1x Twincast
1x Shred Memory
1x Time Stop
1x Animate Dead
1x Leyline of Anticipation
1x Future Sight
1x Exploration
1x Burgeoning
1x Omniscience
Artifacts-9
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Golgari Signet
1x Dimir Signet
1x Simic Signet
1x Coalition Relic
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Sol Ring
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
Land-35
1x Dimir Aqueduct
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Golgari Rot Farm
1x Woodland Cemetery
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Watery Grave
1x Llanowar Wastes
1x Underground River
1x Yavimaya Coast
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Forbidden Orchard
1x Exotic Orchard
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Command Tower
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Maze of Ith
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Strip Mine
1x Alchemist's Refuge
5x Island
2x Swamp
2 x Forest
EDIT1: I have changed quite a few things in the deck, and upped the land count. I wanted to move away from 1-1 answers outside of counters.
EDIT2: I have updated the list for the first time in months. The mana fixing is significantly better now, along with a few upgrades, and I like to think in general a more stream-lined, faster deck. Any new suggestions anybody, the budget for this deck is fairly high.
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
Damia, Sage of Stone
Ertai, the Corrupted
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Omnath, Locus of Mana
EDIT: I have also found winning with this deck to be very easy by the way. The three best colors in EDH with a potent general and powerful things to do at all stages of the game is a winning deck.
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
Edit: as for the mana base, just take your time and accrue them one piece at a time. Thats what i did and i just finished this mana base earlier this year. Lot of money spent but money well spent.
Damia, Sage of Stone
Ertai, the Corrupted
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Omnath, Locus of Mana
You're also missing some definite Damia staples like Insidious Dreams and Words of Waste. I also think Exploration, Burgeoning and Manabond should be in every Damia deck. Stuff that grants flash is very good here as well as players are going to want to kill Damia on sight. If you're looking for what to cut I'd start with Venser's Journal (just a bad card) and Greaves and Boots (who cares if Damia has haste).
Edit: also you need at least 4-5 more land.
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Mike and Trike loses to instant speed grave hate which should be in every deck. You have to work harder than that to stop Palinchron and Deadeye.
Exsanguinate doesn't have to be in hand cause you use Rune Scarred Demon to find them when you cast TnN the third time. Or you just have a bunch of tutors in your deck in general.
Damia, Sage of Stone
Ertai, the Corrupted
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Omnath, Locus of Mana
The Insidious Dreams is actually on loan, and I understand the other cards, but I hadn't considered Words of Waste. I have one lying around, I might just stick it in to try it. I started running the journal as a bad form of lifegain because the game usually turns into a 3v1 with this deck, but I agree it's underwhelming. Greaves and boots are for the protection over the haste, but they are rather underwhelming. Tooth and Nail is probably the card to pick up first. What do you guys think of Coffer-borg in a list with primeval? I was considering picking it up, it seems good, but not having played with it I don't have a definitive answer.
EDIT: I'd be comfortable going up to 37, especially with exploration/burgeoning in the deck, but 39 seems like a lot of land for a deck that has mana ramp. I do tend towards the land light with edh though, so maybe I'm just being greedy.
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
Btw, I only play 36 lands and I never have an issue.
Damia, Sage of Stone
Ertai, the Corrupted
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Omnath, Locus of Mana
Comments, advice, criticism, and questions are all welcome.
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Crucible is mostly in there for the combo atm. Crucible+Azusa+Walk the Aeons was my kill con until rather recently. I also made this deck on a bit of a budget, I've actually spent maybe $100 on it. The lands are obvious, and they will come as I get the cash, although I felt in a deck with powerful ramp and draw the mana base could serve to take a hit, particularly when the most expensive land in any of my groups decks is an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. I am going to set my immediate card acquiring sites on the shadowmoor filters, the zendikar fetches, the shocks(Fingers crossed on reprints) and a few of the newer, modern bordered lands before worrying about Revised duals. I could also probably get my hands on a strip mine fairly easily.
As is I can mull into fixing/draw enough of the time to win multiplayer games a majority of the time, but I'm aware that a robust mana base will greatly decrease my mulligan %. I'm going to work on it, but any more advice in the meantime would be greatly appreciated.
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Contrary to popular belief, I don't think it's good in every list. Sometimes the card doesn't do a lot. It's definitely strong enough to test, but I don't think it's an auto include. I do like it quite a bit with Oracle particularly. Future Sight is just good on its own.
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
Vamp tutor?
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429