If you have any questions about 3CB that this thread can not answer, please check out thesethreearticles, written by GoblinBoy back in the 3CB hayday.
DBB has written two primers on 3CB lands, which you can find here and here.
He has also written two articles on metagaming for 3CB, which you can find here and here.
Good luck everyone!
--------------Submission Deadline--------------
Please, PM your decks to Mogg at either MDV or MTGS. The deadline for submission is midnight, Tuesday of next week (June 19th).
--------------Rules and Submission Guidelines--------------
Your deck is composed of 3 cards which all start in your hand.
Your library contains 0 cards and you don’t have a sideboard (Wishes fetch nothing).
Random effects always go in your opponent's favor.
You can see your opponent's hand, so you make the best possible play.
You don't lose as a result of not being able to draw a card.
You play each opponent twice; once going first and once going second.
For each win, you score 3 points.
For each draw, you score 1 point.
For each loss, you score 0 points.
Three rules restrict the kind of deck you can send. They are:
1.You may not submit a deck that can win before the opponent's first main phase.
2.You may not submit a deck that can force an opponent to lose more than one card from his hand per turn.
3. You may not submit a deck that uses a card on the 3CB banned list.
Other than the aforementioned, everything is handled exactly like a real game of Magic.
If you want to play, PM me a message with a heading similar to " 3CB Round #X", where X is the current round number. The format for the message should be:
Deck Name
Card #1
Card #2
Card #3
--------------Current Banned List--------------
All Ante cards
All Promo cards not available on Gatherer/Autocard
All Unglued and Unhinged cards (excluding basic land)
The Theme Rounds are the best part. Normal 3cb is pretty random, since it is all about metagame prediction based on highly limited data... Special Rounds, OTOH, have coolness.
what exactly would you guys do though? bsic-lands only? I may be new to 3CB, but it seems like there's not much restrictions you can do...
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
It's basically 4CB, but you have a library instead of a hand, so you actually have to draw all your cards over 4 draw steps. The deck is stacked, obv.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
It's basically 4CB, but you have a library instead of a hand, so you actually have to draw all your cards over 4 draw steps. The deck is stacked, obv.
I think it might be a better format if the cards simply magically appeared in your hand one at a time, since 90% of the banned list was banned for milling.
All spells have suspend X - MANA, where MANA is one of each type of coloured mana symbol in their mana cost, and X is their CMC -1 for each mana symbol in MANA?
So Vindicate has Suspend 1 - BW, while Teferi is Suspend 4 - U.
Or just all cards start the game suspended with a number of Time counters equal to their CMC or ther normal Suspend value (if they have one). (This is NOT a combo with lands, only one will be in play)
Is it the fact that I'm trying original decks bad? or is it just that my attempts suck?
in retrospect, I probably should have used a sorcery/instant for the discard...
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Is it the fact that I'm trying original decks bad? or is it just that my attempts suck?
in retrospect, I probably should have used a sorcery/instant for the discard...
Well, last week's submission wasn't a high scorer, even in theory, considering it could only tie :p.
I think the main issue you're having is that you're misjudging the speed of the format. Both this deck and your previous one rely on your opponent not being able to play anything on their first turn. Correctly metagaming, decks like that could work, but your problem is that you're facing off against much faster decks.
Looking at your deck this week, your main issue is that you're using inferior cards (no offense meant). While Stronghold Rats could be a strong choice, it has several major issues. The first is that it doesn't have haste, meaning the discard effect has to wait a turn. The second is that the discard is untargeted, and many decks can shrug off a single card and will still be able to outpace your 3 damage output.
Meanwhile, compare your deck to something like Mox Jet, Ravenous Rats, Mishra's Factory. Same damage output, same basic theme, almost the same vulnerabilities, but a large difference. The Rats give you the discard one turn earlier, as soon as you drop them, which will make a world of difference.
As a general tip, if you're trying to run disruption that doesn't deal with cards in play, you need to be able to use it as soon as possible. Counterspells and Discard especially, as waiting a turn to activate them usually means you've lost your chance.
Well, last week's submission wasn't a high scorer, even in theory, considering it could only tie :p.
I think the main issue you're having is that you're misjudging the speed of the format. Both this deck and your previous one rely on your opponent not being able to play anything on their first turn. Correctly metagaming, decks like that could work, but your problem is that you're facing off against much faster decks.
Yeah, I realized that...the idea was to use a card that forces us both to discard, so I get a rootwalla and they lose a card...make it a one for nothing (I lose a card and get a creature, they lose a card)
would that have helped any more, do you think?
in checking the decks, if I had a spell that made us both discard, I'd have automatically beat 9 of the other decks while on the play.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
can someone run me through what happens with my deck vs Death_By_Beebles? I think the score is off, but i am not sure what it should be
actually i am convinced that neither of us can win a game against each other
on the play i drop the lotus, and the land and play my preacher (20-20) he plays his loutuses and his Rakdos the Defiler (20-20) i gain a life from my sheltered valley and steal his rakdos (21-20) he does nothing i don't untap my preacher, gain 1 from sheltered valley, and attack with rakdos and sacrifice the sheltered valley (22-13) he does nothing i don't untap my preacher and i do nothing (because if i attack with rakdos i have to sacrifice my preacher and he gets rakdos back) the game ends in a stalemate when i am on the play
on the draw he drops both lotuses and plays rakdos (20-20) i play my my hand (20-20) he attacks me and i sacrifice sheltered valley (13-20) i steal his rakdos and end my turn (13-20) he does nothing i don't untap my preacher and i do nothing (because if i attack with rakdos i have to sacrifice my preacher and he gets rakdos back) game ends in a stalemate
i think most preacher decks can't handle rakdos because of rakos's drawback from attacking
I also think that silasw doesn't get 6 points from the rakdos matchup either but i am not certain
If you have any questions about 3CB that this thread can not answer, please check out these three articles, written by GoblinBoy back in the 3CB hayday.
DBB has written two primers on 3CB lands, which you can find here and here.
He has also written two articles on metagaming for 3CB, which you can find here and here.
Good luck everyone!
--------------Submission Deadline--------------
Please, PM your decks to Mogg at either MDV or MTGS. The deadline for submission is midnight, Tuesday of next week (June 19th).
--------------Rules and Submission Guidelines--------------
Your deck is composed of 3 cards which all start in your hand.
Your library contains 0 cards and you don’t have a sideboard (Wishes fetch nothing).
Random effects always go in your opponent's favor.
You can see your opponent's hand, so you make the best possible play.
You don't lose as a result of not being able to draw a card.
You play each opponent twice; once going first and once going second.
For each win, you score 3 points.
For each draw, you score 1 point.
For each loss, you score 0 points.
Three rules restrict the kind of deck you can send. They are:
1.You may not submit a deck that can win before the opponent's first main phase.
2.You may not submit a deck that can force an opponent to lose more than one card from his hand per turn.
3. You may not submit a deck that uses a card on the 3CB banned list.
Other than the aforementioned, everything is handled exactly like a real game of Magic.
If you want to play, PM me a message with a heading similar to " 3CB Round #X", where X is the current round number. The format for the message should be:
Deck Name
Card #1
Card #2
Card #3
--------------Current Banned List--------------
All Ante cards
All Promo cards not available on Gatherer/Autocard
All Unglued and Unhinged cards (excluding basic land)
Wasteland
Ghost Quarter
Strip Mine
Glacial Chasm
Blackmail
Brain Pry
Coercion
Pulse of the Dross
Force of Will
Cabal Therapy
Abandon Hope
Show and Tell
Misguided Rage
The Rack
Form of the Dragon
Balance
Restore Balance
Barren Glory
Mesmeric Fiend
Nezumi Shortfang
Voidstone Gargoyle
Meddling Mage
Leonin Squire
--------------Current Watched List--------------
Magus of the Moon
Mishra's Workshop
--------------Winner List--------------
FuDaWg45 - Round #1
FuDaWg45 - Round #2
magicianofthought - Round #3
Feyd_Ruin - Round #4
Chimpanzee - Round #5
Zhou_tai - Round #6
Death_By_Beebles - Round #7
Chimpanzee - Round #8
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
The Theme Rounds are the best part. Normal 3cb is pretty random, since it is all about metagame prediction based on highly limited data... Special Rounds, OTOH, have coolness.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
3CB and 4CB5CB!One of the 4cb variants inspired my own short-lived OTTCB.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Of course, you have to ban stuff like Tormod's Crypt for that to work properly.
I think it might be a better format if the cards simply magically appeared in your hand one at a time, since 90% of the banned list was banned for milling.
3CB and 4CB5CB!So Vindicate has Suspend 1 - BW, while Teferi is Suspend 4 - U.
Or just all cards start the game suspended with a number of Time counters equal to their CMC or ther normal Suspend value (if they have one). (This is NOT a combo with lands, only one will be in play)
Maybe like every 5 weeks.
Objection!
#1 - Death_By_Beebles
No Name
Rakdos the Defiler
Black Lotus
Black Lotus
#2 – Feuerdrache
It IS broken, but don’t fix it anyway
Rakdos the Defiler
Black Lotus
Black Lotus
#3 - Niv-Mizzet_Rulez!
Lava to meet you
Lavaborn Muse
Sheltered Valley
Black Lotus
#4 – SenorClown
Third Time’s the Charm
Lavaborn Muse
Sheltered Valley
Black Lotus
#5 – krizzlybear
will this ever win?
Magus of the Moon
Glowrider
Black Lotus
#6 – Tlaon
Preachy Lotus
Magus of the Moon
Preacher
Black Lotus
#7 - ferro_man
Promised Land
Preacher
Sheltered Valley
Black Lotus
#8 – silasw
“I like Preacher now.dec”
Preacher
Rishadan Cutpurse
Black Lotus
#9 – Yezzandrix
Deck
Nether Spirit
Last Rites
Black Lotus
#10 – SALAd
Machinehead
Blazing Specter
Hammerheim
Black Lotus
#11 – Chimpanzee
Level-headed
Leveler
City of Traitors
Black Lotus
#12 - Charm_Master3125
Madness? THIS IS SPARTA!!!
Stronghold Rats
Basking Rootwalla
Black Lotus
#13 - Wrath_of_DoG
TET, Magus, and Rakdos, bow to the hound.
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Swords to Plowshares
Karakas
#14 – WhammWhamme
No Name
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Leyline of Singularity
Karakas
#15 – Shadowlord
Legends.dec
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Leyline of Singularity
Karakas
#16 – Halinn
No Name
Dryad Arbor
Unmask
Sickening Shoal
#17 – SumPhatGuy
Greased Lightning.dec
Lightning Helix
Isochron Scepter
City of Traitors
#18 magicianofthought
Last Minute.dec
Lightning Helix
Isochron Scepter
City of Traitors
X|| 1 2 3 4| 5 6 7 8| 9 0 1 2| 3 4 5 6| 7 8| Total
1|| X 2 6 6| 3 3 3 0| 3 3 3 6| 0 0 0 3| 6 6| 53
2|| 2 X 6 6| 3 3 3 0| 3 3 3 6| 0 0 0 3| 6 6| 53
3|| 0 0 X 2| 6 0 0 0| 3 3 0 6| 0 0 0 2| 0 0| 22
4|| 0 0 2 X| 6 0 0 0| 3 3 0 6| 0 0 0 2| 0 0| 22
5|| 3 3 0 0| X 3 0 3| 3 3 3 3| 4 4 4 0| 6 6| 48
6|| 3 3 6 6| 3 X 1 0| 3 6 6 6| 4 4 4 0| 6 6| 67
7|| 3 3 6 6| 6 4 X 4| 3 6 6 6| 0 0 0 2| 0 0| 55
8|| 6 6 6 6| 3 6 1 X| 3 6 6 6| 2 2 2 2| 2 2| 67
9|| 3 3 3 3| 3 3 3 3| X 3 4 3| 1 1 1 3| 3 3| 46
0|| 3 3 3 3| 3 0 0 0| 3 X 3 0| 1 1 1 0| 3 3| 30
1|| 3 3 6 6| 3 0 0 0| 1 3 X 6| 0 0 0 3| 6 6| 46
2|| 0 0 0 0| 3 0 0 0| 3 6 0 X| 0 0 0 0| 0 0| 12
3|| 6 6 6 6| 1 1 6 2| 4 4 6 6| X 3 3 2| 0 0| 62
4|| 6 6 6 6| 1 1 6 2| 4 4 6 6| 3 X 3 0| 0 0| 60
5|| 6 6 6 6| 1 1 6 2| 4 4 6 6| 3 3 X 0| 0 0| 60
6|| 3 3 2 2| 6 6 2 2| 3 6 3 6| 2 6 6 X| 3 3| 64
7|| 0 0 6 6| 0 0 6 2| 3 3 0 6| 6 6 6 3| X 2| 55
8|| 0 0 6 6| 0 0 6 2| 3 3 0 6| 6 6 6 3| 2 X| 55
1st: silasw
1st: Tlaon
3rd: Halinn
DBB will start the next round when he gets back from his vacation.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
my deck was one card off of silasw's but i got seventh and he tied for first
Is it the fact that I'm trying original decks bad? or is it just that my attempts suck?
in retrospect, I probably should have used a sorcery/instant for the discard...
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Sorry about that, I guess I stopped after Karakas, Isamaru. I'll fix it.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Well, last week's submission wasn't a high scorer, even in theory, considering it could only tie :p.
I think the main issue you're having is that you're misjudging the speed of the format. Both this deck and your previous one rely on your opponent not being able to play anything on their first turn. Correctly metagaming, decks like that could work, but your problem is that you're facing off against much faster decks.
Looking at your deck this week, your main issue is that you're using inferior cards (no offense meant). While Stronghold Rats could be a strong choice, it has several major issues. The first is that it doesn't have haste, meaning the discard effect has to wait a turn. The second is that the discard is untargeted, and many decks can shrug off a single card and will still be able to outpace your 3 damage output.
Meanwhile, compare your deck to something like Mox Jet, Ravenous Rats, Mishra's Factory. Same damage output, same basic theme, almost the same vulnerabilities, but a large difference. The Rats give you the discard one turn earlier, as soon as you drop them, which will make a world of difference.
As a general tip, if you're trying to run disruption that doesn't deal with cards in play, you need to be able to use it as soon as possible. Counterspells and Discard especially, as waiting a turn to activate them usually means you've lost your chance.
Yeah, I realized that...the idea was to use a card that forces us both to discard, so I get a rootwalla and they lose a card...make it a one for nothing (I lose a card and get a creature, they lose a card)
would that have helped any more, do you think?
in checking the decks, if I had a spell that made us both discard, I'd have automatically beat 9 of the other decks while on the play.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
actually i am convinced that neither of us can win a game against each other
on the play i drop the lotus, and the land and play my preacher (20-20)
he plays his loutuses and his Rakdos the Defiler (20-20)
i gain a life from my sheltered valley and steal his rakdos (21-20)
he does nothing
i don't untap my preacher, gain 1 from sheltered valley, and attack with rakdos and sacrifice the sheltered valley (22-13)
he does nothing
i don't untap my preacher and i do nothing (because if i attack with rakdos i have to sacrifice my preacher and he gets rakdos back)
the game ends in a stalemate when i am on the play
on the draw
he drops both lotuses and plays rakdos (20-20)
i play my my hand (20-20)
he attacks me and i sacrifice sheltered valley (13-20)
i steal his rakdos and end my turn (13-20)
he does nothing
i don't untap my preacher and i do nothing (because if i attack with rakdos i have to sacrifice my preacher and he gets rakdos back)
game ends in a stalemate
i think most preacher decks can't handle rakdos because of rakos's drawback from attacking
I also think that silasw doesn't get 6 points from the rakdos matchup either but i am not certain