02 hinotama :: "recurring infinity" devoted druid / quillspike / reveillark
love the recursion, but being able to win without combat damage was more important.
There were 9 players with 36 matches and 72 total games.
12 hands ended in a draw. 7 matches had at least one draw.
That's 17% of all games, averaging 1.3 games per player.
The following player(s) had the most drawn games, with 7 total draws: benbuzz790
0 matches were a 3-3 split.
23 matches were a 6-0 sweep.
That's 81% of all matches, averaging 3.6 matches per player.
The following player(s) had the most 6-0 match sweeps, at 6 total sweeps: Rush_Clasic
There were 38 unique cards submitted, out of 45 total.
7 card(s) were repeated:
Blind Magic is an online Magic format played here on the forums. Players play with an extremely limited deck size, such as 3 cards. Players begin with their entire deck (ie: those three cards) in hand and have no library (players don't lose when they fail to draw a card because of this). Due to the extremely limited number of play options given with their small deck size, games are calculated, rather then played, with an absolute determined winner (or a tie). Each player plays a match of two games against each other player who submitted - once going first, and once going second. Wins, losses, and ties for each of those two games are calculated by the moderator and players. The actual fun of the game comes from trying to decide which cards you will be playing.
What is the All Blind Tournament?
The All Blind Tournament is a four-week XCB tournament, which spans all card blind formats and embraces a progressive anti-metagame. For each week of the four-week tournament, a new XCB format is announced for players to enter. Players compete for points (similiar to the PotM points for previous XCB games) each round. At the end of the four-week tournament, the player who has accumulated the most points over the four weeks wins the tournament, and receives a real-world prize.
Basic Rules of All Blind Tournament
Below lies the rules of ABT written in laymen's terms for ease of understanding.
While a comprehensive rule system exists, new players and quick glances are best left for this basic explanation.
Overview
The All Blind Tournament (ABT) is a Magic tournament that consists of four rounds of X Card Blind (XCB), run entirely within this forum. To compete, entrants submit decks containing X cards which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
Deck Construction Rules
1. A deck must contain exactly X cards.
2. A deck may contain any number of copies of any Vintage-legal card, but can't contain any cards on the ABT Banned List.
3. A player's deck must not enable that player to win the game before an opponent's second turn.
4. A player's deck must not enable that player to force an opponent to lose any cards in his or her hand before an opponent's second turn.
5. A player's deck must enable that player to win the game.
Deck Submission Rules
6. An entrant submits his or her deck to the ABT moderator by private message (pm).
Playing the Decks
7. Entrants don't actually play their decks, because game results can be determined theoretically.
8. Each player starts the game with the cards in his or her deck in his or her hand.
9. A player doesn't lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
10. A random effect resolves in favor of the opponent of the owner of that effect.
11. Players know all information that would normally be concealed from them.
12. Each player plays one two-game match against each other player, and each player is the starting player once per match.
Points
13. The entrant with the most points in a round is the round winner. For each match, an entrant earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. However, an entrant earns only 2 points for a split match (each player wins a game).
14. The entrant with the most points in the four rounds comprising the ABT is the tournament winner.
Extra Rules
15. Some optional rules may be used; see Optional Rules.
16. The Basic Rules don't cover every issue. For in-depth rules, see Comprehensive Rules.
Optional Rules
Land Rule
Any player may play a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land.
Expanded Land Rule
Any player may play a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand.
Alternative Land Rule
If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land card of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn.
Sanctioned Magic Format
A deck may contain only cards contained in sets legal in the specified format.
Counter Rule
Until each player has completed two turns, each player ignores any part of an effect of a source an opponent owns that would counter a spell that player controls.
Life Rule
If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game. Determine whether a deck enables the player of that deck to win the game as though this rule didn't exist.
Special Format
Other rules are specified.
XCB Comprehensive Rules
Below lies the comprehensive rules system for the ABT.
Rules are written for precision and game clarification. They are not written for ease of reading.
Game Rules
1.1. There are many versions of XCB. Each version has a name, of the form XCB 'Land Rule' 'Sanctioned Magic Format' 'Special Format' '(Bonus)' 'Counter Rule' 'Life Rule'.
1.1a. X is a number.
1.1b. 'Land Rule' can be LR, ELR, ALR, or nothing. LR indicates that the basic land rule is in effect, ELR indicates that the expanded land rule is in effect, and ALR indicates that the alternative land rule is in effect (see Rule 1.7).
1.1c. 'Sanctioned Magic Format' can be the name of a sanctioned Magic constructed format or nothing. The name of a format indicates that only cards contained in sets legal in that format may be submitted. This is an exception to rule 2.3c.
1.1d. 'Special Format' can be the name of at least one special format or nothing. The name of a special format indicates that the special format in effect (see Rule 1.8).
1.1e. 'Bonus' can be (Bonus) or nothing. (Bonus) modifies the preceding special format, indicating that an entrant must not follow the rules of that format, but that entrant will earn a specified number of bonus points if he or she does (see Rule 2.4f).
1.1f. 'Counter Rule' can be C or nothing. C indicates that the counter rule is in effect (see Rule 1.9).
1.1g. 'Life Rule' can be LF, AL, or nothing. LF indicates that the life rule is in effect and AL indicates that the alternative life rule is in effect (see Rule 1.10).
1.2. Decks are not played, but are scored as though they were. The player of a deck is the entrant who submitted that deck.
1.3. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
1.3a. Ignore any part of an instruction that isn't covered by these rules or the rules of Magic.
1.4. An entrant's deck contains exactly X cards (see Rule 1.1).
1.4a. A player's opening hand contains the cards in his or her deck.
1.4b. Players don't draw hands or mulligan.
1.4c. Players don't have sideboards.
1.5. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
1.5a. A player doesn't lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.6. A cost or effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the player who paid the cost or the owner of the source of the effect instead.
1.7. Some versions of XCB use a land rule.
1.7a. This is the basic land rule (LR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land.
1.7b. This is the expanded land rule (ELR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand.
1.7c. This is the alternative land rule (ALR). If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land or basic snow land card of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn.
1.8. Some versions of XCB use a special format. A special format is an extra set of rules. These rules overwrite any other applicable rules. A non-comprehensive list of special formats is maintained here.
1.8a. Some special formats cause an emblem to be put into the command zone. Abilities of those emblems can't be countered by spells or abilities, except as modified by a special format.
1.8b. Some special formats cause players to draw hands. The drawn cards become part of that player's opening hand.
1.8c. Some special formats generate continuous effects. Continuous effects generated by special formats are applied in the order those formats are listed in the XCB version name, before any other effects that could be applied in a layer.
1.8d. Some special formats require an entrant to make some number of decisions in addition to or instead of submitting a deck. An entrant's submission is that entrant's deck and any decisions that entrant makes. An entrant's submission must not violate rule 2.3 if all instances of the word 'deck' in that rule are replaced with 'submission'.
1.8e. Some special formats require entrants to make decisions "before the start of each game". For these decisions, follow the "Active Player, Nonactive Player order" rule, replacing "active player" with "starting player".
1.8f. Some special formats refer to decks that obtain or could obtain results. Saying that a deck obtains or could obtain a result means that the player of that deck obtains or could obtain that result in a game or match against another player (see Rule 1.11). If a deck obtains or could obtain a result against another deck, then the player of that deck obtains or could obtain that result against the player of the other deck.
1.9. Some versions of XCB use the counter rule.
1.9a. This is the counter rule (C). Until each player has completed two turns, each player ignores any part of an effect of a source an opponent owns that would counter a spell that player controls.
1.10. Some versions of XCB use a life rule.
1.10a. This is the life rule (LF). If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game. Determine whether a deck enables the player of that deck to win a match as though this rule didn't exist (see Rule 2.3b).
1.10b. This is the alternative life rule (AL). If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game.
1.11. Each player plays one match against each other player.
1.11a. Each match has two games.
1.11b. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
1.11c. Games are played with perfect information; players know the identities of face-down cards and cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
1.11d. Games are played optimally. The best outcome for a player is to win the game and the worst outcome is to lose the game.
1.11e. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
Tournament Rules
2.1. Entrants compete in a competition.
2.1a. The shortest type of competition is a round. Typically, each round lasts one week.
2.1b. The ABT is a competition consisting of four rounds.
2.2. An entrant submits his or her deck to the ABT moderator.
2.2a. An entrant submits his or her deck by private message (pm).
2.2b. An entrant may submit multiple decks, but only the most recently submitted deck is counted.
2.2c. An illegal deck is not counted. At the moderator’s discretion, an illegal deck may be replaced by a similar deck – in which any cards causing that deck to be illegal have been removed or replaced.
2.2d. The moderator determines the result of each match. Entrants may challenge results, but not after the results of the first round of a new ABT has been posted, except at the moderator's discretion.
2.2e. An entrant may name his or her deck. If an entrant doesn't, then the moderator may name it.
2.3. Decks are subject to some restrictions.
2.3a. An entrant may not submit a deck that could enable the player of that deck to win the game or force any cards in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn. A card is forced to change zones if the owner of that card could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in either that card changing zones or that player losing the game before his or her second turn. Ignore this rule in the following cases:
i. All cards in an opponent's hand that would be forced to change zones would not be cast by that opponent and would enter the battlefield under that opponent's control. For example, a 4CB deck with two copies of could contain but could not contain .
ii. All cards in an opponent's hand that weren't there as a result of a cost or effect that opponent controlled that would be forced to change zones during the resolution of a spell or ability would be in that opponent's hand after that spell or ability resolved. For example, a 3CB deck could contain and but an 8CB deck could not.
iii. Cards in an opponent's hand would be forced to change zones only if cards in that opponent's hand that started outside the game would cause that opponent's maximum hand size at the start of the game to be exceeded. For example, a 3CB LR deck could contain two copies of .
iv. The rule would be violated only in a game that existed as a result of an effect that resolved not before the specified turn or until each player had completed the specified number of turns that restarted the game or created a subgame. For example, a 2CB LR deck could contain .
v. The rule wouldn't be violated if opponents' cards had no rules text. For example, a 2CB deck could contain and if a special format read "Each player gets an emblem with 'You control your opponents during your turn'" and an opponent's deck could contain and .
2.3b. An entrant may not submit a deck that wouldn't enable the player of that deck to win a match (see Rule 2.4d) against the player of at least one deck satisfying all rules.
2.3c. A deck may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1). Except as modified by a special format, all cards used in a game must be legal in Vintage.
2.3d. A deck may contain any number of copies of any card that will become legal in Vintage upon release of a set that's been revealed fully and officially since the start of the round.
2.3e. A deck may not contain any cards on the ABT Banned List.
2.4. Points determine round standings.
2.4a. Entrants are ranked – first to last – in order of decreasing number of points.
2.4b. For each match, an entrant earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game.
2.4c. The combined result of both games in a match is called a match result. Possible match results are: 6 – two wins, 4 – a win and a draw, 3 or 2 or S – a win and a loss, 2 – two draws, 1 – a draw and a loss, and 0 – two losses.
2.4d. Some match results are also denoted by names: two wins – match win, a win and a loss – split match, two draws – draw, and two losses – match loss. An entrant wins the match if he or she wins both games, splits the match if he or she wins a game and loses a game, draws a match if he or she draws both games, and loses the match if he or she loses both games.
2.4e. An entrant earns only 2 points for a split match. This is an exception to rule 2.4b.
2.4f. An entrant may earn a number of bonus points defined by a special format. An entrant earns these points in addition to any other points.
2.4g. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Its rows represent entrants and its columns represent those entrants' opponents. An entrant's total number of points is listed at the end of his or her row.
2.5. The entrant with the most tournament points over the course of the ABT is the tournament winner.
2.5a. Each round, an entrant receives tournament points equal to his or her average match result for that round multiplied by 100, rounded to the nearest integer or some number of decimal places chosen at the moderator's discretion. For example, an entrant scoring 6-6-6-6-X-0-0-0 in a round with 8 entrants receives 340 tournament points ((6 + 6 + 6 + 6) / (8 - 1) x 100).
2.5b. If two or more entrants would win the ABT, then each of those entrants competes in additional rounds specified by the moderator, until only one entrant has the most tournament points. Each additional round contains only the entrants who have the most tournament points. The moderator may specify a limit to the number of additional rounds.
3. Prize Rules
3.1. A prize shall be given to the tournament winner.
3.1a. The winner of the tournament shall be given the prize described within the tournament, or a suitable replacement upon the tournament's end.
3.1b. If the winner of the tournament has won two or more tournaments, then the highest ranked entrant who hasn't won two or more tournaments shall be given the prize instead.
3.1c. If the winner was a moderator for two or more rounds of the tournament, then the highest ranked entrant who wasn't the moderator for two or more rounds of that tournament shall be given the prize instead. This is to ensure fair play.
3.1d. An entrant may decline the prize. If he or she does, then that entrant may designate another entrant to receive the prize.
3.1e. Entrants under the age of 18 are ineligible for prizes, due to federal laws regarding the sharing of personal information of minors.
3.1f. In the event that a prize can't be given to an entrant, the moderator will do his best to find another suitable way to reward that entrant.
3.1g. No prize is 100% guaranteed, but is assumed upon a good faith basis. Let's face it, with international customs, weird laws, etc, we can't guarantee anything. We'll do our best.
3.2. As a prized tournament, special scoring rules and practices are in place.
3.2a. Entrants are responsible for their own scoring. Assistance will be given, especially to new entrants, but it is ultimately up to each entrant to ensure his or her scoring is completed and accurate.
3.2b. Incomplete scores are considered losses, even to both players in a match if necessary. This is to make sure a winner is determined at the end of a tournament.
3.2c. The moderator always has the final word regarding scores and rules. Entrants may question any scoring the moderator does, until the moderator says that a match's scoring is final.
3.2d. The moderator may, at his or her discretion, determine a match is too difficult to calculate and give it a tie score, or his or her best guess. Again, this is final.
3.2e. Once a winner has been announced as final, that entrant shall receive the prize, even if errors in scoring or points are shown later.
Permanently Banned Cards
The following cards are permanently banned in the All Blind Tournament.
Each round will have an additional banned list that extends beyond, but always includes, these cards.
Previous standings will always be posted below the opening post of each week's thread.
Standings will be updated after the current week has been completed and score checking has finished.
01 tomsloger :: "the faerie scourge"
bitterblossom / scion of oona / mistbind clique
6-0 On my turn six I attack for what would be lethal if unblocked. Mistbind can prevent this once, but the counterattack is too small to kill me and I win no matter how many defenders hold back.
6-0 I only need to chump with one faerie per turn to stop Quillspike (no trample). Reveillark kills me on turn 8 if it's attacking, but I have lethal from spare faeries by turn 7 (I don't need to leave a chump blocker back on the last turn).
6-0 Mutavault is irrelevant. If I resolve Entity I win, so he can never play Sprite and my second Bitterblossom easily beats his Mutavault.
04 aurorasparrow :: ""
mistmeadow witch / austere command / maralen of the mornsong
0-6 He saves Austere Command until I have two cards on the table. No one of my cards can deal with Witch bouncing a creature every turn on my declare attackers step, so I lose. (Witch does not die to Command herself since she exiles herself at the previous EOT.)
3-3 Fortunately, three colours isn't enough for infinite mana from Tender, so I get a bit of chump blocking time. His Kithkin deals 1,1,4,4,8 on turns 2,3,4,5,6 respectively by that point Bloom Tender has required four chump blocks and I have to chump the fifth attack from the Figure. I win this race if I'm attacking with two faeries each turn, which I am on the play, but lose it on the draw to Bitterblossom damage.
07 clairval :: "mono white kithkins"
bitterblossom / scion of oona / sower of temptation
6-0 I wait patiently until I can play and activate Entity on the same turn FTW.
On turn five he draws his first spare land and can then make Crusher very big. If I'm on the play I have five Faeries by that point. From then on I never have more faeries because he can always force me to chump one, plus flame jab one. Swans kills me on his turn 9. On my turn nine I can cast Entity and activate for 6, which gives me three faeries attacking for 18 total. Given the damage they inflicted earlier unpumped, that's enough for the win. If, however, I'm on the draw then I never have enough faeries and lose.
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Quite complicated maths-wise, but here's my gut feeling: Mirror Entity isn't threatening until turn 6 (I can steal it, so he has to activate it the turn he plays it); therefore since double blossom is chewing bat's life, I attack to force trading between my 2/2s and his double tokens.
Hmm... I think we need to do the sums:
B: (20) - C: (20) - B: (20) Blossom C: (20) Blossom B: (19) Blossom, attack with 1 token C: (18) Scion (1 token) B: (17) No attacks (3 tokens) C: (17) Attack with token (2 tokens) B: (13) No attacks (5 tokens) C: (16) Attack with two tokens (3 tokens) B: (8) Attack with five 3/3 faeries, leaving 2 blockers back. That's enough to force Scion to block.
On the draw I don't think I can do enough, so that's 3-3?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
grid updated. ive been sitting here trying to find a way for anyone to beat rush. so far, no success. we all chose things that could be taken out by two flame jabs.
yes. i very specifically worded it that way instead of "modern legal"
i am not a fan of the modern banlist
edit: im not totally convinced on my match with clairval. sower doesnt have flash, so i hold back on clique until sower tries to steal scion. if clique gets double blocked, i get scion back and will be ahead on tokens. if not, im still ahead because clairval either takes 4 or blocks unprofitably. ill do some figuring after more of the grid gets done
6-0; I can combo out from under Maralen, which means dropping her is actively counterproductive, as it blocks aurorasparrow from getting to 4 mana (and I do infi on turn 3, so...)
A little stunned that I'm the only one to use retrace. Here's how I see things going down:
8v1. 6-0 - Swans is a fierce wall for Mistbind and tokens to get through. Flame Jab keeps the tokens under control. Crusher gets big and mean.
8v2. 6-0 - When SpikeDruid is on the play, Crusher gets in for a chump block and then Swan handles all the attacks while Jab takes out Druid, then Spike, (then both again if need be) then the opposition. Swans is really a good wall.
8v3. 6-0 - An early Flame Jab lowers the token count enough to sneak Swans onto the battlefield. Swans + Jab are too much for the token hoard to handle.
8v4. 3-3 - On the play, Maralen of the Mornsong just owns me. It comes down and all I have is one use of a Flame Jab. On the play, Crusher comes out and forces the long game plan. If Witch come out, it gets Jabbed. If Maralen comes out, I can do nothing and win. So, it's a race to see how useful Command is. Fortunately, through the use of Jabbing Swan for cards, I get a huge Crusher and kill turn 6.
8v5. 3-3 - Quillspike combo kills on turn three thanks to the wonder that is Rite of Consumption. It's too fast for me when it plays first. But when I play first, I just need three lands to kill Druid with Jab. Just quick enough!
8v6. 6-0 - Tender gets popped. Figure has to wait until it can come out as a 4/4 or it gets popped too. Either way, Swans blocks it forever. Jab or Crusher can finish at will.
8v7. 6-0 - There's some trickiness where you EOT Scion, Sower Swans, and get one attack with a bunch of fliers, but every way I calculate it, it isn't enough; Jab kills Scions, then Sower, Swans defends while Crusher crushes and the chump blocking becomes unbearable.
8v9. 6-0 - The goal for you is to get Mirror Entity out with enough mana to avoid Jab death, enough tokens to form an assault, and enough life to not die on the back-swing. I've run a lot of different options and I don't see how it's possible to fulfill all those requirements.
Um, I'm pretty sure you don't, because I win on turn 3:
Turn 1:
Play Forest
Turn 2:
Play second Forest, cast Devoted Druid
Turn 3:
Tap two forests and Druid to cast Quillspike. As often as necessary, untap Druid, tap it for mana, use mana and counter to pump Quillspike. Then untap Druid one last time, play a Swamp, and use Druid and Swamp to cast Rite of Consumption for the win.
So unless you have a way to play Sower before turn 4, you can't act fast enough to disrupt my combo, even if you're on the play.
I'm pretty sure something similar happens against (04) aurorasparrow - Mistmeadow Witch can't disrupt me until turn 4, Austere Command can't do anything until turn 6, and Maralen of the Mornsong doesn't interfere with my plan at all. EDIT: Forgot that Maralen stops me from drawing land. HOWEVER, in order to disrupt my plan at all, Maralen has to come down on turn 3, in which case she is also keeping aurorasparrow from drawing the fourth land to be able to activate Mistmeadow Witch, so it just means I take four turns to win instead of three.
And I agree with Rush_Clasic's 3-3 result for the 05 vs. 08 match.
So if I haven't made any mistakes, then:
04 vs. 05 => 0-6 my favor
05 vs. 07 => 6-0 my favor
05 vs. 08 => 3-3
The rest of my row looks correct, except that I haven't done the math to check what kinds of problems Reyemile can cause for me with Spellstutter Sprite when he's on the play.
For next week's ban list, I would add Orochi Leafcaller - when all mana output is doubled, it's more powerful than Channel. Pili-Pala might also be worth considering, as it will essentially untap for free after an initial mana investment. (These kinds of things are probably why Mana Reflection only applies when a permanent is TAPPED for mana.)
For next week's ban list, I would add Orochi Leafcaller - when all mana output is doubled, it's more powerful than Channel.
good call. and anything else with a similar ability. manaforge cinder sort of
anyone think of any others?
most things with that ability seem to be older than 7th
So if I don't attack, because your alpha strike is coming, I could chump block everything (or double block and take one), then make the Entity sacrfice in reponse to being targetted by the Sower, then go full defend mode until you die to Bitterblossoms? I'll do the maths tomorrow after the first cup of whatever, now by brain is just a mess.
The trouble is, if you don't attack then I don't play Entity that turn. I'm gaining creatures faster than you and all my creatures are 4/4s the following turn, so that doesn't help you.
EDIT: @tomsloger - I had Reach of Branches (or Worm's Harvest) in several of my test builds, but Bitterblossom just distorts the metagame too much for it to be viable. What amazes me is that nobody ran spot removal or counterspells.
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
After doing the math, I'm pretty sure that I lose to Reyemile on the play if he casts Bitterblossom on his second turn. I'll be able to cast Devoted Druid without interference, but on my next turn I'll have a maximum of two mana to spare (my three lands pay for Quillspike, and my Druid can provide at most two more), while Spellstutter Sprite will require a payment of 3 or 4 depending on whether he activates Mutavault. In future turns, I will have one additional mana each turn, but the payment required for the Sprite will also increase by one each turn due to Bitterblossom.
When I'm on the play, I can beat Reyemile on turn 4 even through Spellstutter Sprite.
So add the following to the three suggested corrections from my last post:
03 Reyemile vs. 05 Grolleter
Listed: 0-6
Suggested: 3-3
After doing the math, I'm pretty sure that I lose to Reyemile on the play if he casts Bitterblossom on his second turn. I'll be able to cast Devoted Druid without interference, but on my next turn I'll have a maximum of two mana to spare (my three lands pay for Quillspike, and my Druid can provide at most two more), while Spellstutter Sprite will require a payment of 3 or 4 depending on whether he activates Mutavault. In future turns, I will have one additional mana each turn, but the payment required for the Sprite will also increase by one each turn due to Bitterblossom.
When I'm on the play, I can beat Reyemile on turn 4 even through Spellstutter Sprite.
So add the following to the three suggested corrections from my last post:
03 Reyemile vs. 05 Grolleter
Listed: 0-6
Suggested: 3-3
Spellstutter doesn't make spells cost 3 or 4 more; it's a hard-counter of spells with CMC three/four or less.
Spellstutter doesn't make spells cost 3 or 4 more; it's a hard-counter of spells with CMC three/four or less.
*facepalm* You're right. Been too long since I've seen it in tabletop play, I guess ...
But that still lets you keep me from ever resolving Quillspike, if you're on the play. And if I'm on the play, I can combo off before you are able to have two Faeries at the same time. So the suggested correction to 3-3 still stands.
Wait... if the Spellstutter Sprite deck can't play Mutavault AND a Swamp on turn one, then I can beat it... I can resolve combo pieces ahead of the Sprite on the play and go infinite turn 3 (for the win). So 3-3.
The proposed format seems pretty degenerate. You can cast just about anything when mana folds like that. Adding to the specific concern posted above, it's easy to go infinite with Grinning Ignus.
@tomsloger - Could you please stop listing next week's banlist as "pending" so that I can submit a deck?
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<Limited Clan>
ok. i restored the first post, updated grid and standings, and made the banned list official. standard 5cb banlist and the two one-card-infinite-mana combos mentioned in the thread. anything else out there, go ahead and exploit it i guess
anything ive missed for scoring changes? anything else needed?
The "full" banned list looks wrong, as though it's missing lots of things.
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edit: i thought i agreed with bateleur on the banlist, but i think it just looks wrong because so many of the things were used to seeing on there are before modern. i did add thespians stage and chancellor of the annex, but those just werent there because the banlist i copy/pasted was old.
This thread contains the results for week 2 of All Blind Tournament #10 and is the start of week 3 of ABT#10.
Week 2 of ABT#10 Next Round : Week 3 of ABT#10 Information
WhammWhamme 450 275 | 725
bateleur 425 275 | 700
grolleter 250 400 | 650
aurorasparrow 325 200 | 525
benbuzz790 313 000 | 313
tomsloger 000 300 | 300
mogg 250 000 | 250
Reyemile 075 075 | 150
hinotama 000 125 | 125
edit: deck code "Madwoman of honourless phenomena threaten fool sunstroke romeos harm apeman"
Not sure about a couple of those matches...
09 bateleur :: "twoflower"
bitterblossom / bitterblossom / mirror entity
vs
01 tomsloger :: "the faerie scourge"
bitterblossom / scion of oona / mistbind clique
6-0 On my turn six I attack for what would be lethal if unblocked. Mistbind can prevent this once, but the counterattack is too small to kill me and I win no matter how many defenders hold back.
02 hinotama :: ""
devoted druid / quillspike / reveillark
6-0 I only need to chump with one faerie per turn to stop Quillspike (no trample). Reveillark kills me on turn 8 if it's attacking, but I have lethal from spare faeries by turn 7 (I don't need to leave a chump blocker back on the last turn).
03 Reyemile :: ""
mutavault / bitterblossom / spellstutter sprite
6-0 Mutavault is irrelevant. If I resolve Entity I win, so he can never play Sprite and my second Bitterblossom easily beats his Mutavault.
04 aurorasparrow :: ""
mistmeadow witch / austere command / maralen of the mornsong
0-6 He saves Austere Command until I have two cards on the table. No one of my cards can deal with Witch bouncing a creature every turn on my declare attackers step, so I lose. (Witch does not die to Command herself since she exiles herself at the previous EOT.)
05 grolleter :: ""
rite of consumption / Devoted Druid / Quillspike
0-6 I don't do quite so well against Quillspike combo when I can't block it!
06 WhammWhamme :: "obvious deck.dec"
figure of destiny / umbral mantle / bloom tender
3-3 Fortunately, three colours isn't enough for infinite mana from Tender, so I get a bit of chump blocking time. His Kithkin deals 1,1,4,4,8 on turns 2,3,4,5,6 respectively by that point Bloom Tender has required four chump blocks and I have to chump the fifth attack from the Figure. I win this race if I'm attacking with two faeries each turn, which I am on the play, but lose it on the draw to Bitterblossom damage.
07 clairval :: "mono white kithkins"
bitterblossom / scion of oona / sower of temptation
6-0 I wait patiently until I can play and activate Entity on the same turn FTW.
08 Rush_Clasic :: ""
flame jab / countryside crusher / swans of brynn argol
On turn five he draws his first spare land and can then make Crusher very big. If I'm on the play I have five Faeries by that point. From then on I never have more faeries because he can always force me to chump one, plus flame jab one. Swans kills me on his turn 9. On my turn nine I can cast Entity and activate for 6, which gives me three faeries attacking for 18 total. Given the damage they inflicted earlier unpumped, that's enough for the win. If, however, I'm on the draw then I never have enough faeries and lose.0-6 Oops, forgot Bitterblossom damage!
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<Limited Clan>
Hmm... I think we need to do the sums:
B: (20) -
C: (20) -
B: (20) Blossom
C: (20) Blossom
B: (19) Blossom, attack with 1 token
C: (18) Scion (1 token)
B: (17) No attacks (3 tokens)
C: (17) Attack with token (2 tokens)
B: (13) No attacks (5 tokens)
C: (16) Attack with two tokens (3 tokens)
B: (8) Attack with five 3/3 faeries, leaving 2 blockers back. That's enough to force Scion to block.
On the draw I don't think I can do enough, so that's 3-3?
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<Limited Clan>
yes. i very specifically worded it that way instead of "modern legal"
i am not a fan of the modern banlist
edit: im not totally convinced on my match with clairval. sower doesnt have flash, so i hold back on clique until sower tries to steal scion. if clique gets double blocked, i get scion back and will be ahead on tokens. if not, im still ahead because clairval either takes 4 or blocks unprofitably. ill do some figuring after more of the grid gets done
01 tomsloger :: "the faerie scourge"
bitterblossom / scion of oona / mistbind clique
6-0; turn 3 infinite damage means BB tokens block from the second they spawn, and then the 8/8 Figure eventually wins.
02 hinotama :: ""
devoted druid / quillspike / reveillark
love the recursion
3-3; we goldfish the same turn and can't win through a goldfish. (he can't chump QUITE enough to survive to Reveillark)
03 Reyemile :: ""
mutavault / bitterblossom / spellstutter sprite
i dont love spellstutter sprite here, but it could steal some games
0-6; stupid Spellstutter Sprite.
04 aurorasparrow :: ""
mistmeadow witch / austere command / maralen of the mornsong
6-0; I can combo out from under Maralen, which means dropping her is actively counterproductive, as it blocks aurorasparrow from getting to 4 mana (and I do infi on turn 3, so...)
05 grolleter :: ""
rite of consumption / Devoted Druid / Quillspike
more or less the same deck again. i love it again.
3-3; same goldfish speed is same goldfish speed.
06 WhammWhamme :: "obvious deck.dec"
figure of destiny / umbral mantle / bloom tender
the other infinitely sized creature combo. we will soon find out which is better.
X
07 clairval :: "mono white kithkins"
bitterblossom / scion of oona / sower of temptation
3-3; on the play, I win against an empty board (lonely Bitterblossom does not help).
08 Rush_Clasic :: ""
flame jab / countryside crusher / swans of brynn argol
0-6 ; I have Figure by itself against Flame Jab. Figure is awesome, but gets pwned.
09 bateleur :: "twoflower"
bitterblossom / bitterblossom / mirror entity
On the play, win against an empty board. On the draw... I guess bat is right? My brain rebelled against the chain of logic.
The Grid
8v1. 6-0 - Swans is a fierce wall for Mistbind and tokens to get through. Flame Jab keeps the tokens under control. Crusher gets big and mean.
8v2. 6-0 - When SpikeDruid is on the play, Crusher gets in for a chump block and then Swan handles all the attacks while Jab takes out Druid, then Spike, (then both again if need be) then the opposition. Swans is really a good wall.
8v3. 6-0 - An early Flame Jab lowers the token count enough to sneak Swans onto the battlefield. Swans + Jab are too much for the token hoard to handle.
8v4. 3-3 - On the play, Maralen of the Mornsong just owns me. It comes down and all I have is one use of a Flame Jab. On the play, Crusher comes out and forces the long game plan. If Witch come out, it gets Jabbed. If Maralen comes out, I can do nothing and win. So, it's a race to see how useful Command is. Fortunately, through the use of Jabbing Swan for cards, I get a huge Crusher and kill turn 6.
8v5. 3-3 - Quillspike combo kills on turn three thanks to the wonder that is Rite of Consumption. It's too fast for me when it plays first. But when I play first, I just need three lands to kill Druid with Jab. Just quick enough!
8v6. 6-0 - Tender gets popped. Figure has to wait until it can come out as a 4/4 or it gets popped too. Either way, Swans blocks it forever. Jab or Crusher can finish at will.
8v7. 6-0 - There's some trickiness where you EOT Scion, Sower Swans, and get one attack with a bunch of fliers, but every way I calculate it, it isn't enough; Jab kills Scions, then Sower, Swans defends while Crusher crushes and the chump blocking becomes unbearable.
8v9. 6-0 - The goal for you is to get Mirror Entity out with enough mana to avoid Jab death, enough tokens to form an assault, and enough life to not die on the back-swing. I've run a lot of different options and I don't see how it's possible to fulfill all those requirements.
Um, I'm pretty sure you don't, because I win on turn 3:
Turn 1:
Play Forest
Turn 2:
Play second Forest, cast Devoted Druid
Turn 3:
Tap two forests and Druid to cast Quillspike. As often as necessary, untap Druid, tap it for mana, use mana and counter to pump Quillspike. Then untap Druid one last time, play a Swamp, and use Druid and Swamp to cast Rite of Consumption for the win.
So unless you have a way to play Sower before turn 4, you can't act fast enough to disrupt my combo, even if you're on the play.
I'm pretty sure something similar happens against (04) aurorasparrow - Mistmeadow Witch can't disrupt me until turn 4, Austere Command can't do anything until turn 6, and
Maralen of the Mornsong doesn't interfere with my plan at all.EDIT: Forgot that Maralen stops me from drawing land. HOWEVER, in order to disrupt my plan at all, Maralen has to come down on turn 3, in which case she is also keeping aurorasparrow from drawing the fourth land to be able to activate Mistmeadow Witch, so it just means I take four turns to win instead of three.And I agree with Rush_Clasic's 3-3 result for the 05 vs. 08 match.
So if I haven't made any mistakes, then:
04 vs. 05 => 0-6 my favor
05 vs. 07 => 6-0 my favor
05 vs. 08 => 3-3
The rest of my row looks correct, except that I haven't done the math to check what kinds of problems Reyemile can cause for me with Spellstutter Sprite when he's on the play.
For next week's ban list, I would add Orochi Leafcaller - when all mana output is doubled, it's more powerful than Channel. Pili-Pala might also be worth considering, as it will essentially untap for free after an initial mana investment. (These kinds of things are probably why Mana Reflection only applies when a permanent is TAPPED for mana.)
good call. and anything else with a similar ability.
manaforge cinder sort of
anyone think of any others?
most things with that ability seem to be older than 7th
The trouble is, if you don't attack then I don't play Entity that turn. I'm gaining creatures faster than you and all my creatures are 4/4s the following turn, so that doesn't help you.
EDIT: @tomsloger - I had Reach of Branches (or Worm's Harvest) in several of my test builds, but Bitterblossom just distorts the metagame too much for it to be viable. What amazes me is that nobody ran spot removal or counterspells.
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<Limited Clan>
When I'm on the play, I can beat Reyemile on turn 4 even through Spellstutter Sprite.
So add the following to the three suggested corrections from my last post:
03 Reyemile vs. 05 Grolleter
Listed: 0-6
Suggested: 3-3
Spellstutter doesn't make spells cost 3 or 4 more; it's a hard-counter of spells with CMC three/four or less.
*facepalm* You're right. Been too long since I've seen it in tabletop play, I guess ...
But that still lets you keep me from ever resolving Quillspike, if you're on the play. And if I'm on the play, I can combo off before you are able to have two Faeries at the same time. So the suggested correction to 3-3 still stands.
Also, tom, I posted my results a page back...
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
anything ive missed for scoring changes? anything else needed?
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>