I feel like I'm gimping people if I don't give them a chance to submit decks based on what they learned from the previous three rounds. So we'll do one more. With Innistrad legal to use, Laboratory Maniac is added to the ban list.
X| 1 2 3 4 5
1| X 2 6 6 6 | 20 | ...
2| 2 X 6 0 S | 10 | ...
3| 0 0 X 2 6 | 08 | ...
4| 0 6 2 X S | 10 | ...
5| 0 S 0 S X | 04 | ...
(S stands for a 3/3 Split, which is 2 points)
RULES
0. Overview
Alternate 5CB is a weekly Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit five-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules of Magic.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly five cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
1.5. Each player plays two games (one match) against each other player.
1.5a. Each player is the starting player once per match.
1.5b. If no player can win, the game is a draw.
1.5c. Games are played with perfect information.
1.5d. Games are played optimally; players attempt to win, draw, or extend the game – in that order.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 5CB moderator.
2.1a. A player may submit multiple decks, but only the most recent deck is counted.
2.1b. An illegal deck is not counted. The removal of an illegal deck does not affect deck distribution (see Rule 2.4).
2.1c. The moderator determines the result of each match. Players may challenge results, but not after the results of the first round belonging to a new month have been posted (see Rule 2.5a).
2.1d. A player may name his or her deck. If a player does not, the moderator may name it.
2.2. Decks are subject to some restrictions.
2.2a. A player may not submit a deck that can – against any deck – win the game or force any number of cards in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn.
2.2b. A player may not submit a deck that can't win both games of a match against at least one deck satisfying 2.2a and 2.2c.
2.2c. A deck may include any number of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1), with the exception of cards on the ban list.
2.2d. A deck may include any number of any card that will become legal in Vintage upon release of a set that has been revealed fully and officially since the start of the round.
2.3. Points determine tournament standings.
2.3a. Players are ranked – first to last – in order of decreasing number of points.
2.3b. For each match, a player earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. However, a player earns only 2 points for a split match (one win, one loss).
2.3c. A table of match results is posted each round. Its rows represent players and its columns represent opponents. Match results reflect the combined result of both games played in a match; 3 is a game win, 1 a drawn game, and 0 a game loss. 2 may be used instead of 3 to denote a split match. A player's points are listed at the end of his or her row.
2.4. In rounds of twenty or more players, players are divided randomly into equally-sized heats of n players, where n is the number of players divided by ten (rounded down).
For example, twenty-five players are divided into heats of twelve and thirteen.
2.4a. Except in the finals, a player only plays against players in his heat.
2.4b. The top four players of each heat advance to the finals, where they play again (with the same decks).
2.4c. Tiebreakers for advancement to the finals are as follows: number of matches in which a player wins both games, number of game wins, points scored against higher-scoring decks. If a tie is unresolved, the tied decks advance.
2.5. The player with the most POTM points over the course of a month is the Player of the Month.
2.5a. A month includes all rounds for which decks are due during that month.
2.5b. Each round, each player receives POTM points equal to their average match result for that round, rounded down to 1 decimal place. For example, a player scoring 6-6-6-6-X-0-0-0 in a round with 8 decks receives 3.4 points (24/7).
Aha! Looks like I got player of the month! It works like golf right?
Private Mod Note
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Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
Ha! That's a great idea. Even better might be a "loser wins" special week. You still have to play optimally, i.e. your deck must be able to win and when calculating match-ups you play to win; but you have to build the deck so that it loses to the greatest possible number of decks.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
The format you're describing is called Backbuild, and it's been run quite a few times, both in 5CB and 2CB (and for a long time, there was an entire dedicated game, 1CBB, or 1 Card Blind Backbuild). It's a lot of fun!
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
That's cool. It's always fun to turn games on their heads like that. What's the best deck? Mountain/Death by a thousand stings?
Nah, there's some real doozies. Mogg has tended to submit decks that used Desecration Elemental and Mana Crypt to make sure that anyone who casts a spell OR deals damage beats him 6-0, and the decks tend to win darn slowly too.
There's also decks with goldfish speeds in the thousands of turns (storage lands + creatures with cumulative upkeep), and my personal favourite: Flailing Soldier (and friends). Loses to lands. (to get around that deck being legal, the round rules usually state 'must be able to beat a deck running one of each basic land' ; my solution to that was a deck that could only kill through a combination of The Rack + casting Planar Overlay to return lands to your hand.
That storage land + cumulative upkeep deck was insane. If I remember correctly it took ~14k turns to win. It really really surprised me how thought out and evil that deck is. I tried and failed at making it take longer to win.
That storage land + cumulative upkeep deck was insane. If I remember correctly it took ~14k turns to win. It really really surprised me how thought out and evil that deck is. I tried and failed at making it take longer to win.
Mercadian Masques block card. 2/2 for R. Anyone can pay 1 mana to give it +1/+1 or -1/-1.
Thus, it loses to decks that generate two mana. =)
I'd love to run Emrakul in 1CBB, because it doesn't do damage, play spells, or really do anything for 15 turns, losing to almost anything that doesn't intend to clock really slowly. I just love the idea of this bomb card losing to everything.
That Standstill deck is impressive!
Also, so that people know, 2CB will be running some backbuild in the future, now that it's slowly leaving the experimental stages.
5 Card Blind does in fact require you to play and earn any mana you want to use. You do not pay the CMC (or, Converted Mana Cost), you pay the actual full cost for the card, making Progenitus harder to play than Kozilek, Butcher of Truth. For Example, a classic deck (Not legal in Alternate 5CB, but is legal in the regular Vintage 5CB thread):
I'm excited to hear there will be some 2cbb! Since that's already a thing, perhaps the -second- worst deck (or just the middle deck, like you suggested) would be a fun special week too.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
I've been thinking about that, and I would be amused to see who can come up with the most mediocre deck.
I'm just not sure how to score that. Maybe just normally, then take the average, and your score is twice the difference between your score and the average.
I'd love to run Emrakul in 1CBB, because it doesn't do damage, play spells, or really do anything for 15 turns, losing to almost anything that doesn't intend to clock really slowly. I just love the idea of this bomb card losing to everything.
you would mostly be better of running Energy Bolt. But 1cbb is extremely metagamy and Intrepid Hero and fury are commonly played
My plan is to suspend gargadon and balance turn 1, and have them both resolve turn 7 after sacrificing my permanents to gargadon. balance resolves first, killing all creatures, lands, and making the opponent discard his hand. Then gargadon comes down, and hopefully it's enough to get there.
Uh, this is complicated. Play or draw, he can get down a turn 1 lodestone to keep me from playing runed halo. His clock is faster than my board wipe, so he wins this round as long as he doesn't die to mana crypts. How does it work? Assuming he flashes in lodestone on my turn... Turn 1 - sac nothing, take 6, play smokestack. Turn 2 - take 6, stack the triggers wrong, sac a crypt. Turn 3 - take 3, stack the triggers correctly, sac a crypt. T4, stack them correctly, sac smokestack and leyline. Yeah, ok, he got me.
Nice deck here, it's really clever. We might have to re-evaluate the strength of cards like mana crypt and ancient tomb if anyone is up for keeping the alternate blind thread running.
This is the deck I knew I'd have to beat this week. EDIT: and failed to do so because I can't read cards.
He gets two chancellors and form of the dragon. I get Gargadon and runed halo, naming Form of the dragon. We stall because I can't attack.
Turn 1 I suspend both my cards. Turn 2 I play runed halo naming omnath. Balance will resolve on turn 7, wiping his hand and board. He can't resolve Jugan until turn 4, and my suspended cards will resolve with me at just 2 life.
Another restore balance deck! I could be wrong, but isn't thoughtseize illegal? If it's legal, he takes runed halo instead, I leave mox in hand and suspend gargardon. It will come into play on turn 9? The rack will kill me first.
If it's legal, and I'm on the play, I can get down runed halo first, and we stall.
1-4
If it's illegal, i guess we replace it with a basic land? In that case, I play runed halo naming the rack. Timing is strange here. I guess I suspend balance, and the turn before it goes off, i suspend gargadon. Now, my gargadon will come into play and he can't resolve his balance.
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
1 WhammWhamme - Nobody Expects Backbuild!
Leyline of Anticipation / Mana Crypt / Mana Crypt / Lodestone Golem / Smokestack
vs
2 Error1 - Let Me Go First
Ancient Tomb / Mox Ruby / Chalice of the Void / Blood Moon / Epochrasite
I think 6-0
First turn, I drop Smokestack, then cast Lodestone in upkeep, who I think is big enough to hold off baby Epochrasite, and I think I can Smokestack away permanents enough to let me swing FTW. And I only take 9 from crypts before I can get rid of the dratted things.
3 Heart of Draco - Can't Pay 1
Chancellor of the Tangle / Chancellor of the Tangle / Ancient Tomb / Eureka / Form of the Dragon
6-0.
Turn 0 Lodestone Golem trumps his deck.
4 Benbuzz790 - Basically Copying Another Deck
Greater Gargadon / Restore Balance / Mox Pearl / Plateau / Runed Halo
6-0
Turn 0 Lodestone Golem trumps his deck.
5 Thundersnow - Legend of the Green Dragon
Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers / Eladamri's Vineyard / Omnath, Locus of Mana / Magus of the Vineyard / Jugan, the Rising Star
Is Feyd disqualified? Or should he just have to run only 4 cards instead of the full 5?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
I feel like I'm gimping people if I don't give them a chance to submit decks based on what they learned from the previous three rounds. So we'll do one more. With Innistrad legal to use, Laboratory Maniac is added to the ban list.
1 WhammWhamme - Nobody Expects Backbuild!
Leyline of Anticipation / Mana Crypt / Mana Crypt / Lodestone Golem / Smokestack
2 Error1 - Let Me Go First
Ancient Tomb / Mox Ruby / Chalice of the Void / Blood Moon / Epochrasite
3 Heart of Draco - Can't Pay 1
Chancellor of the Tangle / Chancellor of the Tangle / Ancient Tomb / Eureka / Form of the Dragon
4 Benbuzz790 - Basically Copying Another Deck
Greater Gargadon / Restore Balance / Mox Pearl / Plateau / Runed Halo
5 Thundersnow - Legend of the Green Dragon
Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers / Eladamri's Vineyard / Omnath, Locus of Mana / Magus of the Vineyard / Jugan, the Rising Star
6 Feyd_Ruin - The Power of 1Scrubland / Thoughtseize / Innocent Blood / The Rack / Restore Balance
The Grid
RULES
0. Overview
Alternate 5CB is a weekly Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit five-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules of Magic.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly five cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
1.5. Each player plays two games (one match) against each other player.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 5CB moderator.
2.2. Decks are subject to some restrictions.
2.3. Points determine tournament standings.
2.4. In rounds of twenty or more players, players are divided randomly into equally-sized heats of n players, where n is the number of players divided by ten (rounded down). 2.5. The player with the most POTM points over the course of a month is the Player of the Month.
Black Lotus
City of Traitors
Lion's Eye Diamond
Mishra's Workshop
Karakas
Ghost Quarter
Shelldock Isle
Strip Mine
Wasteland
Foil
Force of Will
Magus of the Moon
Meddling Mage
Trinisphere
Channel
Empty the Warrens
Laboratory Maniac (NEW!)
Show and Tell
Vampire Hexmage
Format: Normal
Deck Submission Deadline:
Saturday, October 1, 3:00 AM GMT-5 (EST).
Player of the Month: September
R01 + R02 + R03
3.2 + 3.7 + 5.5 = 12.4 ced395
3.2 + 3.7 + 3.0 = 09.9 WhammWhamme
3.2 + 4.0 + 2.6 = 09.8 Error1
3.2 + 2.5 + 3.0 = 08.7 Feyd_Ruin
2.0 + 3.7 + 2.5 = 08.2 Heart of Draco
1.5 + 3.0 + 2.5 = 07.0 knobbodi
2.5 + 3.2 + 1.2 = 06.9 Personman
4.0 + 0.7 + 1.5 = 06.2 Thundersnow
2.5 + 1.1 + 2.0 = 05.6 benbuzz790
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
What the heck happened to Thundersnow?! He was out in front and then...DIED.
If you're going to lose, do it all the way...don't go half-a**ing it.
Oh wait...:embarrass:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
Nah, there's some real doozies. Mogg has tended to submit decks that used Desecration Elemental and Mana Crypt to make sure that anyone who casts a spell OR deals damage beats him 6-0, and the decks tend to win darn slowly too.
There's also decks with goldfish speeds in the thousands of turns (storage lands + creatures with cumulative upkeep), and my personal favourite: Flailing Soldier (and friends). Loses to lands. (to get around that deck being legal, the round rules usually state 'must be able to beat a deck running one of each basic land' ; my solution to that was a deck that could only kill through a combination of The Rack + casting Planar Overlay to return lands to your hand.
That storage land + cumulative upkeep deck was insane. If I remember correctly it took ~14k turns to win. It really really surprised me how thought out and evil that deck is. I tried and failed at making it take longer to win.
As far as backbuild, it doesn't get me as excited as other special rounds in any of the Card Blinds. Just not my cup of tea.
Mercadian Masques block card. 2/2 for R. Anyone can pay 1 mana to give it +1/+1 or -1/-1.
Thus, it loses to decks that generate two mana. =)
in 2cbb I did soldier, manabarbs once I think, it loses to anything that can do damage or make mana, but it was way to strong
the best 2cbb is Standstill + Opalescence
but Worldpurge + Battle of Wits is really good
1cbb it's Planeswalker's Fury
That Standstill deck is impressive!
Also, so that people know, 2CB will be running some backbuild in the future, now that it's slowly leaving the experimental stages.
Underground Sea
Mishra's Factory
Nezumi Shortfang
Chain of Vapor
Thoughseize
This allows you 2 threats, 2-3 types of disruption, and enough mana to play it all.
2CB on the other hand gives you one basic land from outside the game per turn. An example of a deck from that would be:
Figure of Destiny
Arcane Denial
This allows you a cheap but scaleable threat with potential evasion and a powerful disruption element.
2CB is a bit of a different beast, I recoment reading the threads for both 2CB and 5CB to really get a feel for them.
For more information on 3CB and 5CB...
Articles
Dom Camus
Five Card Blind
Nick Chandler-Klein
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 1)
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 2)
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 3)
Alex Hoffman
Going Blind: A First Look at Lands
Going Blind: A Non-Basic Approach
Going Blind: Metagaming – Being Overly Analytical
Going Blind: Metagaming #2 – All Decked Out
Going Blind: XCB Metagaming – A Prolonged Conclusion
Forum Articles
Madmanquail
5CB Strategy
Mogg
5CB Strategy
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
I'm just not sure how to score that. Maybe just normally, then take the average, and your score is twice the difference between your score and the average.
you would mostly be better of running Energy Bolt. But 1cbb is extremely metagamy and Intrepid Hero and fury are commonly played
Greater Gargadon / Restore Balance / Mox Pearl / Plateau / Runed Halo
My plan is to suspend gargadon and balance turn 1, and have them both resolve turn 7 after sacrificing my permanents to gargadon. balance resolves first, killing all creatures, lands, and making the opponent discard his hand. Then gargadon comes down, and hopefully it's enough to get there.
| 0 6 6 2 6 |
1 WhammWhamme - Nobody Expects Backbuild!
Leyline of Anticipation / Mana Crypt / Mana Crypt / Lodestone Golem / Smokestack
Uh, this is complicated. Play or draw, he can get down a turn 1 lodestone to keep me from playing runed halo. His clock is faster than my board wipe, so he wins this round as long as he doesn't die to mana crypts. How does it work? Assuming he flashes in lodestone on my turn... Turn 1 - sac nothing, take 6, play smokestack. Turn 2 - take 6, stack the triggers wrong, sac a crypt. Turn 3 - take 3, stack the triggers correctly, sac a crypt. T4, stack them correctly, sac smokestack and leyline. Yeah, ok, he got me.
Nice deck here, it's really clever. We might have to re-evaluate the strength of cards like mana crypt and ancient tomb if anyone is up for keeping the alternate blind thread running.
0-6
2 Error1 - Let Me Go First
Ancient Tomb / Mox Ruby / Chalice of the Void / Blood Moon / Epochrasite
Turn 1 Blood moon keeps me off runed halo, but my suspend cards get there before his Epochrasite.
6-0
3 Heart of Draco - Can't Pay 1
Chancellor of the Tangle / Chancellor of the Tangle / Ancient Tomb / Eureka / Form of the Dragon
This is the deck I knew I'd have to beat this week. EDIT: and failed to do so because I can't read cards.
He gets two chancellors and form of the dragon. I get Gargadon and runed halo, naming Form of the dragon. We stall because I can't attack.
2-2
5 Thundersnow - Legend of the Green Dragon
Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers / Eladamri's Vineyard / Omnath, Locus of Mana / Magus of the Vineyard / Jugan, the Rising Star
Turn 1 I suspend both my cards. Turn 2 I play runed halo naming omnath. Balance will resolve on turn 7, wiping his hand and board. He can't resolve Jugan until turn 4, and my suspended cards will resolve with me at just 2 life.
6-0
6 Feyd_Ruin - The Power of 1
Scrubland / Thoughtseize / Innocent Blood / The Rack / Restore Balance
Another restore balance deck! I could be wrong, but isn't thoughtseize illegal? If it's legal, he takes runed halo instead, I leave mox in hand and suspend gargardon. It will come into play on turn 9? The rack will kill me first.
If it's legal, and I'm on the play, I can get down runed halo first, and we stall.
1-4
If it's illegal, i guess we replace it with a basic land? In that case, I play runed halo naming the rack. Timing is strange here. I guess I suspend balance, and the turn before it goes off, i suspend gargadon. Now, my gargadon will come into play and he can't resolve his balance.
6-0
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
Leyline of Anticipation / Mana Crypt / Mana Crypt / Lodestone Golem / Smokestack
vs
2 Error1 - Let Me Go First
Ancient Tomb / Mox Ruby / Chalice of the Void / Blood Moon / Epochrasite
I think 6-0
First turn, I drop Smokestack, then cast Lodestone in upkeep, who I think is big enough to hold off baby Epochrasite, and I think I can Smokestack away permanents enough to let me swing FTW. And I only take 9 from crypts before I can get rid of the dratted things.
3 Heart of Draco - Can't Pay 1
Chancellor of the Tangle / Chancellor of the Tangle / Ancient Tomb / Eureka / Form of the Dragon
6-0.
Turn 0 Lodestone Golem trumps his deck.
4 Benbuzz790 - Basically Copying Another Deck
Greater Gargadon / Restore Balance / Mox Pearl / Plateau / Runed Halo
6-0
Turn 0 Lodestone Golem trumps his deck.
5 Thundersnow - Legend of the Green Dragon
Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers / Eladamri's Vineyard / Omnath, Locus of Mana / Magus of the Vineyard / Jugan, the Rising Star
6-0
Turn 0 Lodestone Golem trumps his deck.
Clean sweep, I think.
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
Otherwise, I beat Thundersnow and lose the other two.
0-0-X-2-6-