Five Card Blind (5CB) is a weekly Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit five-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules of Magic.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly five cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 5CB moderator.
2.1a. The moderator acknowledges submissions and reports problems in a timely manner.
2.1b. A player may submit multiple decks, but only the most recent is counted.
2.1c. An illegal deck is not counted. The removal of an illegal deck from a posted heat does not cause further changes to deck distribution (see Rule 2.5).
2.2. Decks are subject to some restrictions.
2.2a. A player may not submit a deck that can – against any deck – win the game or force more than one card in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn.
For example, Cabal Therapy / Scalding Tongs / Swamp x3 is illegal because an opponent's deck may have duplicates of a card, but Cabal Therapy / Scalding Tongs / Subterranean Hangar x3 is legal because Cabal Therapy can't be played until the third turn.
2.2b. A player may not submit a deck that can't win against any deck.
2.2c. A deck may include any number of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1), with the exception of the following banned cards:
2.3. Each player plays two games (one match) against each other player.
2.3a. Each player is the starting player once per match.
2.3b. If no player can win, the game is a draw.
2.3c. A player that can't win or draw plays to extend the game.
2.3d. Results assume optimal play and perfect information.
2.4. Points determine tournament standings.
2.4a. Players are ranked – first to last – in order of decreasing number of points.
2.4b. For each match, a player earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. However, a player earns only 2 points for a split match (one win, one loss).
2.4c. A table of match results is posted each round. Its rows represent players and its columns represent opponents. Match results reflect the combined result of both games played in a match; 3 is a game win, 1 a drawn game, and 0 a game loss. A player's points are listed at the end of his or her row.
2.5. In rounds of twenty or more players, players are divided randomly into equally-sized heats of n players, where n is the number of players divided by ten (rounded down).
For example, twenty-five players are divided into heats of twelve and thirteen.
2.5a. A player only plays against players in his heat.
2.5b. The top four players of each heat advance to the finals, where they play again (with the same decks).
2.5c. Tiebreakers for heats are as follows: number of matches in which a player wins both games, number of game wins, points scored against higher-scoring decks. If a tie is unresolved, both tied decks advance.
2.6. The player with the most POTM points over the course of a month is the Player of the Month.
2.6a. A month includes all rounds for which decks are due during that month.
2.6b. The top eight players of rounds of less than twenty players and all players in the finals of rounds of twenty or more players earn POTM points according to their rank; The player with the highest score earns 1 POTM point for each player in the finals, and each subsequent player earns one point less than the previous player. Tied players earn equal points but are counted as separate players when calculating the points of other players.
2.6c. Tiebreakers for top eight are as follows: number of matches in which a player wins both games, number of game wins, points scored against higher-scoring decks. If a tie is unresolved, both tied decks are counted.
Deck Submission Deadline:
Saturday, July 10th, 8:00 pm GMT+2.
Submit your deck to Alpha Werewolf.
Please use this thread to discuss any aspect of 5CB. Also, consider a subscription to 5CB. Subscribed players who have not already submitted a deck receive a reminder PM about two days before deadline. PM bateleur, ced395, Mogg or Alpha Werewolf to subscribe.
Don't I lose to bmh on the draw? We trade Karakas, then he Foils my Lotus. Meanwhile, he makes Student of Warfare, and I die to what is basically an Eager Cadet.
Against Nom_Anor, I can't beat Factory, but he can't race me. It's a draw.
8) bateleur
Black Lotus / Channel / Channel / Havenwood Battleground / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
vs
3) darko121
Tinker / Black Lotus / Seat of the Synod / Inkwell Leviathan / Brainstorm
Listed: 0-6 Suggested: 6-0
OK, so he makes a Leviathan I can't target. But Ulamog also has Annihilator, so don't I win easily?
vs
6) Nom_Anor
Karakas / Leyline of the Void / Petrified Field / Mishra's Factory / Foil
Listed: 0-6 Suggested: 2-2
I do nothing until he makes a land. I then Channel out Ulamog and kill it. He bounces my Ulamog. I then wait until he makes another land and do the same thing again. He cannot win with only one land, but provided he always holds Karakas until I've made an Ulamog I can never win either.
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5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I can't figure out how I go 0-6 versus Personman. Does Shelldock Isle not use 'cast' mechanics?
I hold Leyline, Tundra and Foil in my hand for foiling down Progenitus, and play Student of Warfare using Karakas. Fate Stitcher can't get into play except by being unearthed.
The first time you cast Ulamog, you pay 9 life (using additional mana from Battleground and Lotus), leaving you on 11. As such, you have insufficient life to recast Ulamog after it is bounced.
Ulamog costs 11, therefore takes 8 + 11 life to cast twice.
I'm absolutely fine.
Edit: Oh, wait... no I'm not, because for some reason the deck I copied used Havenwood Battleground instead of Hickory Woodlot. <facepalm>
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MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Everything of mine checks out except for possibly Bateleur.
(Isn't his decks always the ones that cause problems? ;))
8 v 10
Listed 6-0
Suggested: 2-2
I can Snapback Ulamog when he plays him. Then his life is too low for a replay. Since that'd be a loss, he just never plays Ulamog until I drop the Fountain of Cho, which I never drop before Ulamog. So we stare at eachother.
8) bateleur
Black Lotus / Channel / Channel / Havenwood Battleground / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
10)Feyd_Ruin
Commandeer, Snapback, Mindbreak Trap, Purity, Fountain of Cho
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
It's too bad about the Eldrazi shuffle ability making my deck not work, Emrakul would be way better than Proggy... though I would still lose to bmh on account of Emrakul getting hit by Karakas.
I was not previously aware of 5CB rule 2.6c:
2.6c. Tiebreakers for top eight are as follows: number of matches in which a player wins both games, number of game wins, points scored against higher-scoring decks. If a tie is unresolved, both tied decks are counted.
and I'm not totally sure of its intent, especially the 'both tied decks are counted' bit. However, it seems like it is saying that bateleur should only get 6 POTM points (ced has more 6-0s) and Nom_Anor only 2 (~Tilde~ has more game wins). It could also possibly be construed t mean that Nom_Anor should not receive any, as when tie breaks are considered, he is not in the top 8.
Oh and also, quite apart from all of that, it may also be the case that everyone got 1 too many POTM points:
Quote from Rule 2.6b »
The player with the highest score earns 1 POTM point for each player in the finals, and each subsequent player earns one point less than the previous player.
There were 10 total players, but only 9 (or 8, see above) made it to the top 8. I was under the impression that the intent was to cap POTM points at 8 (or 9 in cases like this week) so that the max possible wouldn't suddenly go from 19 to 8 when we hit the 20-player threshold. However, the wording "each player in the finals" does kind of sound like it would include all (potentially 19) players in a single-round week.
I can Snapback Ulamog when he plays him. Then his life is too low for a replay. Since that'd be a loss, he just never plays Ulamog until I drop the Fountain of Cho, which I never drop before Ulamog. So we stare at eachother.
Bateleur goes Lotus, Woodlot, go. Next turn, removes a counter from Woodlot, Channel, go. Next turn, cast Ulamog off of Lotus-Channel-Woodlot (sacrificing Woodlot) for 8 life, nuking Fountain if you've played it, floating two green to play the second Channel if you haven't. Plays the second channel after nuking his other one with Ulamog (not a may trigger). You have to bounce Ulamog, at which point he casts him again off of the second channel for 11 life.
...At which point I figure out that Bat wasn't playing Woodlot. *facepalm*
(Isn't his decks always the ones that cause problems? ;))
I blame bmh - what was he thinking with his land choice?!
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5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
But in which deck? If someone plays it I just let Ulamog die then recast him because I have my graveyard back, this time killing Tabernacle.
It would have to be something like Tabernacle plus Leyline of the Void...
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5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Well you say that... Ulamog would destroy the Leyline on his way in!
Buyer beware!
Yes indeed!
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5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
While doing research for my deck this week, I finally completed a long-time, long-unpursued dream of mine: finding the card that makes Cloudstone Curio work. As this deck rolls over at the merest scent of disruption, I feel that I will not be compromising a significant competitive advantage by revealing it here:
It's just like empty the warrens, except it makes even more guys!
Also, it would be cool if someone who was around for the rules updates and knows the intent could comment on the POTM-related points I raised on page 1 before it gets lost in the shuffle.
Oh and I also noticed that rule 1.1 has a stray [/URL] in it, though this doesn't seem to have been the case in previous weeks.
"2.6c. Tiebreakers for top eight are as follows: number of matches in which a player wins both games, number of game wins, points scored against higher-scoring decks. If a tie is unresolved, both tied decks are counted."
and I'm not totally sure of its intent, especially the 'both tied decks are counted' bit. However, it seems like it is saying that bateleur should only get 6 POTM points (ced has more 6-0s) and Nom_Anor only 2 (~Tilde~ has more game wins). It could also possibly be construed t mean that Nom_Anor should not receive any, as when tie breaks are considered, he is not in the top 8.
Oh and also, quite apart from all of that, it may also be the case that everyone got 1 too many POTM points:
There were 10 total players, but only 9 (or 8, see above) made it to the top 8. I was under the impression that the intent was to cap POTM points at 8 (or 9 in cases like this week) so that the max possible wouldn't suddenly go from 19 to 8 when we hit the 20-player threshold. However, the wording "each player in the finals" does kind of sound like it would include all (potentially 19) players in a single-round week.
The intent behind 2.6c is, where possible, to limit the top 8 to eight players. If players are tied for the eighth spot, then the tiebreakers are applied to them. I'l note, though, that Nom_Amor actually scored only 10 points, so it shouldn't be an issue. The part, "both tied decks are counted" means that if no difference appears as a result of the tiebreakers, then both decks are added to the finals.
Your interpretation of 2.6b is correct (and, since there is an extra player in the finals, everyone actually has two more points than they shoud). Incidentally, bateleur should be the sole POTM June; as there were nine players in the last finals, and he placed third, he earns seven points, putting him at 21 points for the month.
I agree that there is room for improvement in those rules. I didn't give as much thought to them as to other sections, but it seemed necessary to have something there. I can suggest two improvements:
1. Eliminate the tiebreakers for rounds of less than twenty players. They are a hassle, easy to forget to do, easy to forget how to apply, and not really relevant in conjunction with the second improvement.
2. Make eight points the maximum for rounds of less than twenty players. Assign points in descending order as usual, and give one point to all players in the finals who are tied for the lowest score.
It seems like you are saying that "Tiebreakers for top 8" means "Tiebreakers for 8th place" - and that thus, ced and bat really do get the same number of points this round. That seems like a weird and inconsistent way to do it (and like a pretty big stretch of the wording, but of course we should fix the wording to match intent and not the other way round
I see how it makes sense in light of "The intent behind 2.6c is, where possible, to limit the top 8 to eight players.", but it seems like it would feel kinda bad to get knocked out of the top 8 (and thus deprived of 1 point) for something that someone who tied for fourth with the same bad tiebreaks was not penalized 1 point for.
This problem goes away if we adopt a slightly extended version of your proposal #1 though, as we can just say that tiebreaks are only for determining who gets out of a heat into the top 8, and that there are no tiebreaks whatsoever within the top 8 (even if there's a true tie in a heat and 9+ people end up in the top 8).
This dovetails nicely with your proposal #2, which I like.
...now that we have some nice fixes on the table, how do we go about implementing them? Back when 5CB was a one-man show, the procedure for rules changes was obvious, but now iunno how it's done. Do the mods vote? Do we just hope for consensus?
Also, I have just learned that that use of "dovetail" comes from a kind of joint in carpentry. Now you have learned it too!
It seems like you are saying that "Tiebreakers for top 8" means "Tiebreakers for 8th place" - and that thus, ced and bat really do get the same number of points this round. That seems like a weird and inconsistent way to do it (and like a pretty big stretch of the wording, but of course we should fix the wording to match intent and not the other way round
My comment about POTM June related to 2.6c. The most accurate way to state the tiebreakers part might be "tiebreakers to determine who is included in the top 8".
This problem goes away if we adopt a slightly extended version of your proposal #1 though, as we can just say that tiebreaks are only for determining who gets out of a heat into the top 8, and that there are no tiebreaks whatsoever within the top 8 (even if there's a true tie in a heat and 9+ people end up in the top 8).
Just to be perfectly clear, though I think my comment in the first part of this post clarifies it already, the intent never was to have tiebreakers inside the top eight. That is, two players tied for second would not have tiebreakers applied. Tiebreakers are only applied in cases where the top eight would be more than eight players. Re-reading the rule now, I think at least that's what I meant. It's so ambiguously worded that I'm not actually sure anymore.
...now that we have some nice fixes on the table, how do we go about implementing them? Back when 5CB was a one-man show, the procedure for rules changes was obvious, but now iunno how it's done. Do the mods vote? Do we just hope for consensus?
I'll give ced395 some time to appeal this technicality before making any changes. Seems a bit harsh, really.
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5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
The formatting was all correct for #138, so the task should be no harder than copying everything from there as the basis for #140 then adding the one missing round of results.
(@Alpha_Werewolf - Make sure you always have WYSIWYG editing mode off when doing this stuff, since it sometimes does slightly broken things!)
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5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Format: Normal
1) jcsuperstar
Black Lotus / Channel / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre / Bazaar of Baghdad / Quagnoth
2) ~Tilde~
Black Lotus / Flash / Leyline of the Meek / Leyline of Singularity / Symbiotic Wurm
3) darko121
Tinker / Black Lotus / Seat of the Synod / Inkwell Leviathan / Brainstorm
4) ced395
Black Lotus / Karakas / Meddling Mage / Meddling Mage / Mystic Gate
5) bmh
Karakas / Tundra / Leyline of Singularity / Student of Warfare / Foil
6) Nom_Anor
Karakas / Leyline of the Void / Petrified Field / Mishra's Factory / Foil
7) Personman
Fatestitcher / Lion's Eye Diamond / Lion's Eye Diamond / Shelldock Isle / Progenitus
8) bateleur
Black Lotus / Channel / Channel / Havenwood Battleground / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
9) Mogg
Anvil of Bogardan / Chalice of the Void / Mishra's Workshop / The Rack / The Rack
10)Feyd_Ruin
Commandeer, Snapback, Mindbreak Trap, Purity, Fountain of Cho
----------------------------------
X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0
1| X 6 6 1 6 6 6 6 2 0 39
2| 0 X 6 2 0 0 2 0 2 0 12
3| 0 0 X 2 0 6 0 0 2 0 10
4| 4 2 2 X 2 2 2 6 2 6 28
5| 0 6 6 2 X 6 6 2 2 6 36
6| 0 6 0 2 0 X 0 6 0 0 16
7| 0 2 6 2 0 6 X 2 2 0 20
8| 0 6 6 0 2 0 2 X 6 2 22
9| 2 2 2 2 2 6 2 0 X 0 18
0| 6 6 6 0 0 6 6 2 6 X 38
1. jcsuperstar(1): 39
2. Feyd_Ruin(10): 38
3. bmh(5): 36
4. ced395(4): 28
5. bateleur(8): 22
6. Personman(7): 20
7. Mogg(9): 18
8. Nom_Anor(6): 16
jcsuperstar wins 5CB #139!
Player of the Month July 2010
1. jcsuperstar: 10
2. Feyd_Ruin: 9
3. bmh: 8
4. ced395: 7
5. bateleur: 6
6. Personman: 5
7. Mogg: 4
8. Nom_Anor: 3
0. Overview
Five Card Blind (5CB) is a weekly Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit five-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules of Magic.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly five cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 5CB moderator.
2.2. Decks are subject to some restrictions.
2.3. Each player plays two games (one match) against each other player.
2.4. Points determine tournament standings.
2.5. In rounds of twenty or more players, players are divided randomly into equally-sized heats of n players, where n is the number of players divided by ten (rounded down).
2.6. The player with the most POTM points over the course of a month is the Player of the Month.
Season 1
March 2005
Round 1 r_x, Greebo, zorbop
Round 2 Ankh-Morpokian
Round 3 Greebo
Round 4 Chimpanzee
POTM: Greebo
April 2005
Round 5 help im a bug, Draco9_1_1 (Only Creatures)
Round 6 Greebo (Only Creatures)
Round 7 spuzzem king
Round 8 bateleur
POTM: spuzzem king
May 2005
Round 9 Feyd_Ruin (Only Multicolor)
Round 10 jcsuperstar (Only Multicolor)
Round 11 Lone Warrior
Round 12 Wanderer359
POTM: WhammWhamme
June 2005
Round 13 Silver Seraph, Greebo (Titania's Song)
Round 14 WhammWhamme (Titania's Song)
Round 15 Tahn (Artist Tribute)
Round 16 Lone Warrior (Artist Tribute)
POTM: bateleur, Greebo
July 2005
Round 17 Shadowlord
Round 18 bateleur
Round 19 Shadowlord (Pay 19: Add 1)
Round 20 Greebo (Pay 19: Add 1)
POTM: Shadowlord
August 2005
Round 21 Greebo
Round 22 Greebo
Round 23 spuzzem king (One-Million Life)
Round 24 WhammWhamme (One-Million Life)
POTM: Greebo
September 2005
Round 25 Chimpanzee, Shadowlord
Round 26 dasheiff
Round 27 Chimpanzee (Orrery)
Round 28 Halinn (Orrery)
POTM: jcsuperstar
October 2005
Round 29 Beaker
Round 30 Feuerdrache, Wanderer359
Round 31 r_x (Dream Halls)
Round 32 Puzzle (Dream Halls)
POTM: Chimpanzee
November 2005
Round 33 bateleur
Round 34 Shadowlord
Round 35 jcsuperstar (Backbuild)
Round 36 jcsuperstar (Backbuild)
POTM: bateleur
December 2005
Round 37 bateleur
Round 38 Wanderer359
Round 39 WhammWhamme (Ban a Card)
Round 40 dasheiff, Lone Warrior (Ban a Card)
POTM: Beaker
January 2006
Round 41 Lone Warrior
Round 42 Silver Seraph
Round 43 Trojan (1984)
Round 44 Beaker (1984)
POTM: Lone Warrior
February 2006
Round 45 bateleur
Round 46 Halinn
Round 47 bateleur (7 Life)
Round 48 Chimpanzee (7 Life)
POTM: bateleur
March 2006
Round 49 armlx
Round 50 bateleur
Round 51 armlx (Leyline)
Round 52 Chimpanzee, Greebo (Leyline)
POTM: armlx
April 2006
Round 53 jcsuperstar
Round 54 armlx
Round 55 bateleur (Epic)
Round 56 Xyre (Epic)
POTM: jcsuperstar
May 2006
Round 57 jcsuperstar
Round 58 Pingele_Pats (Banathon)
Round 59 Amadi (Banathon)
Round 60 Solitaire (Banathon)
POTM: Pingele_Pats
June 2006
Round 61 Farik (One-Million Life)
Round 62 Wrath_of_Dog, zu_Faul (Leyline)
Round 63 Beaker (7 Life)
POTM: silicon
July 2006
Round 64 Pingele_Pats (Multi-Set)
Round 65 WhammWhamme, zu_Faul (Extended)
POTM: None
September 2007
Round 1 (Introduction)
Round 2 andelijah
POTM: None
October 2007
Round 3 Mogg
Round 4 Chimpanzee (Lorwyn)
Round 5 Meat Popsicle (Repeat Letters)
Round 6 Mogg (10 Life)
POTM: Mogg
November 2007
Round 7 Death_By_Beebles
Round 8 jcsuperstar (Mindslaver)
Round 9 Mogg (Thanksgiving Special)
Round 10 Mogg (Thanksgiving Special, Part Two)
POTM: Mogg
December 2007
Round 11 carrion pigeons
Round 12 Mogg (Later Alphabet)
Round 13 Mogg (Backbuild)
Round 14 Xyre (Backbuild)
POTM: Mogg
January 2008
Round 15 armlx
Round 16 Chimpanzee (Auras)
Round 17 Mogg (Doubling Season)
Round 18 carrion pigeons, Chimpanzee (Doubling Season)
Round 19 WhammWhamme (31 Bans)
POTM: Mogg
February 2008
Round 20 Chimpanzee
Round 21 Mogg (Combat)
Round 22 Mogg (Combat)
Round 23 Knowledge
POTM: Mogg
March 2008
Round 24 Mogg (Consecutive Names)
Round 25 Chimpanzee (Consecutive Names)
Round 26 The Mad Tapper
Round 27 The Mad Tapper
POTM: The Mad Tapper
April 2008
Round 28 The Mad Tapper (DC5)
Round 29 jcsuperstar (DC5)
Round 30 jcsuperstar (< 20)
Round 31 bateleur
POTM: bateleur
May 2008
Round 32 WhammWhamme (Leyline)
Round 33 Silver Seraph (Mana Market)
Round 34 bateleur (Helm of Awakening and Mirari)
Round 35 Alfred (Pre-entered Decks)
POTM: bateleur
June 2008
Round 36 bateleur, YuanTi
Round 37 WhammWhamme (Favorite Colors)
Round 38 YuanTi (Lotus)
Round 39 Mogg (Mogg Week)
POTM: WhammWhamme
July 2008
Round 40 bateleur (Mulligans)
Round 41 Mogg
Round 42 Chimpanzee
Round 43 ced395 (Even)
POTM: Mogg
August 2008
Round 44 WhammWhamme (Odd)
Round 45 Farik (No Bans)
Round 46 Mogg
POTM: Error1
September 2008
Round 47 ghweiss (Low-Scoring)
Round 48 theeguy (Backbuild, Part Two)
Round 49 Mogg
Round 50 Mogg (50 Life)
Round 51 Error1 (Landline)
POTM: Mogg
October 2008
Round 52 Shogun17 (Exploration)
Round 53 MT_Gunn (Multicolor Discount)
Round 54 Silkenfist (2-2)
Round 55 bateleur, WhammWhamme
POTM: Error1
November 2008
Round 56 Error1 (Colorless Creatures)
Round 57 Knowledge, Silkenfist (Legendary Creatures)
POTM: None
December 2008
Round 58 (Introduction)
Round 59 Halinn
Round 60 Halinn
Round 61 ced395 (Christmas Special)
Round 62 MyNameIsFourteen (New Year's Special)
POTM: None
January 2009
Round 63 Mogg
Round 64 Mogg (Nemesis)
Round 65 MyNameIsFourteen (Nemesis)
Round 66 Mogg
POTM: Mogg
February 2009
Round 67 Chimpanzee
Round 68 MyNameIsFourteen (Lovely Letters)
Round 69 Naphtali (Lovely Letters, Part 2)
Round 70 bateleur
POTM: bateleur
March 2009
Round 71 ced395, Chimpanzee
Round 72 ced395 (Activated)
Round 73 WhammWhamme (Activated)
Round 74 bateleur
POTM: Chimpanzee
April 2009
Round 75 Xyre
Round 76 Mogg, ngollon (Landline-Orrery)
Round 77 Mogg (Landline-Orrery)
Round 78 Mogg
POTM: Mogg
May 2009
Round 79 bateleur
Round 80 ced395 (Upwelling)
Round 81 Mogg (Upwelling)
Round 82 Halinn
Round 83 r_x_
New Player Round math_geek
POTM: Mogg
June 2009
Round 84 Kekekekeke (Block Party)
Round 85 FuriouslySleepingIdea (Block Party)
Round 86 Mogg
Round 87 Farik
POTM: Mogg
July 2009
Round 88 bateleur, dethwing (Infinite Cards)
Round 89 Farik, lOput (Infinite Cards)
Round 90 Farik, Mogg, Personman
Round 91 Madmanquail
Round 92 bateleur (Backbuild, Part Three)
POTM: Madmanquail
August 2009
Round 93 DragonDart (Backbuild, Part Three)
Round 94 lOput
Round 95 domogrue
Round 96 Mogg (Dream Halls)
POTM: ced395
September 2009
Round 97 Mogg (Dream Halls)
Round 98 ced395
Round 99 FuriouslySleepingIdea
Round 100 bateleur, dethwing, FuriouslySleepingIdea, Krashbot, Shogun17, VikingMetal4L (100 Turns)
POTM: FuriouslySleepingIdea
October 2009
Round 101 Shogun17 (100 Turns Revised)
Round 102 Madmanquail
Round 103 bateleur, bman65, ced395
Round 104 (Results) VikingMetal4L
Round 105 SumPhatGuy (Strawman)
POTM: ced395
November 2009
Round 106 bman65 (Strawman)
Round 107 bateleur
Round 108 Madmanquail
Round 109 bman65 (Respray)
POTM: bman65
December 2009
Round 110 Xyre (Respray)
Round 111 ced395
Round 112 Personman
Round 113 Hinotama, WhammWhamme (Niches)
POTM: bman65
January 2010
Round 114 Mogg (Niches)
Round 115 Madmanquail
Round 116 bmh, Personman
Round 117 bateleur (Suspense)
Round 118 VikingMetal4L (Suspense)
POTM: bmh
February 2010
Round 119 VikingMetal4L
Round 120 Madmanquail
Round 121 Madmanquail (Fork)
Round 122 Mogg, ~Tilde~ (Fork)
PotM: Madmanquail
March 2010
Round 123 Hinotama
Round 124 Madmanquail, Personman
Round 125 lOput (Library)
Round 126 lOput (Library)
PotM: lOput
April 2010
Round 127 tomsloger
Round 128 ~Tilde~, ced395
Round 129 Naphtali (Wordy)
Round 130 Feyd_Ruin (Wordy)
PotM: ced395
May 2010
Round 131 bmh
Round 132 bmh
Round 133 ced395 (Bargain)
Round 134 ced395, Madmanquail (Bargain)
PotM: ced395
June 2010
Round 135 jcsuperstar, WhammWhamme
Round 136 ced395
Round 137 Mogg (Timmy)
Round 138 Feyd_Ruin (Timmy)
July 2010
Round 139 jcsuperstar
Rounds
Mogg: 29
bateleur: 23
ced395: 13
Chimpanzee: 12
WhammWhamme: 12
jcsuperstar: 10
Greebo: 8
Madmanquail: 8
Farik: 5
Halinn: 5
bmh: 4
armlx: 4
Lone Warrior: 4
Personman: 4
Shadowlord: 4
VikingMetal4L: 4
Xyre: 4
lOput: 4
Beaker: 3
bman65: 3
Feyd_Ruin: 3
FuriouslySleepingIdea: 3
MyNameIsFourteen: 3
r_x_: 3
Shogun17: 3
Silver Seraph: 3
The Mad Tapper: 3
Wanderer359: 3
carrion pigeons: 2
dasheiff: 2
dethwing: 2
Error1: 2
Knowledge: 2
Naphtali: 2
Pingele_Pats: 2
Silkenfist: 2
spuzzem king: 2
YuanTi: 2
zu_Faul: 2
~Tilde~: 2
Alfred: 1
Amadi: 1
andelijah: 1
Ankh-Morpokian: 1
Death By Beebles: 1
domogrue: 1
Draco9_1_1: 1
DragonDart: 1
Feuerdrache: 1
ghweiss: 1
help im a bug: 1
Hinotama: 1
Kekekekeke: 1
Hinotama: 1
Krashbot: 1
Meat Popsicle: 1
MT Gunn: 1
ngollon: 1
Puzzle: 1
Solitaire: 1
SumPhatGuy: 1
Tahn: 1
theeguy: 1
Trojan: 1
tomsloger: 1
Wrath_of_Dog: 1
zorbop: 1
POTM
Mogg: 11
bateleur: 7
ced395: 5
Greebo: 3
Madmanquail: 2
bman65: 2
Chimpanzee: 2
Error1: 2
jcsuperstar: 2
WhammWhamme: 2
bmh: 1
armlx: 1
Beaker: 1
FuriouslySleepingIdea: 1
Lone Warrior: 1
lOput: 1
math_geek: 1
Pingele_Pats: 1
Shadowlord: 1
silicon: 1
spuzzem king: 1
The Mad Tapper: 1
Dom Camus
Five Card Blind
Nick Chandler-Klein
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 1)
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 2)
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 3)
Alex Hoffman
Going Blind: A First Look at Lands
Going Blind: A Non-Basic Approach
Going Blind: Metagaming – Being Overly Analytical
Going Blind: Metagaming #2 – All Decked Out
Going Blind: XCB Metagaming – A Prolonged Conclusion
Forum Articles
Madmanquail
5CB Strategy
Mogg
5CB Strategy
Format: Normal Week
Deck Submission Deadline:
Saturday, July 10th, 8:00 pm GMT+2.
Submit your deck to Alpha Werewolf.
Please use this thread to discuss any aspect of 5CB. Also, consider a subscription to 5CB. Subscribed players who have not already submitted a deck receive a reminder PM about two days before deadline. PM bateleur, ced395, Mogg or Alpha Werewolf to subscribe.
My blog.
Both are correct. Applying now.
My blog.
Possible corrections...
8) bateleur
Black Lotus / Channel / Channel / Havenwood Battleground / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
vs
3) darko121
Tinker / Black Lotus / Seat of the Synod / Inkwell Leviathan / Brainstorm
Listed: 0-6
Suggested: 6-0
OK, so he makes a Leviathan I can't target. But Ulamog also has Annihilator, so don't I win easily?
vs
6) Nom_Anor
Karakas / Leyline of the Void / Petrified Field / Mishra's Factory / Foil
Listed: 0-6
Suggested: 2-2
I do nothing until he makes a land. I then Channel out Ulamog and kill it. He bounces my Ulamog. I then wait until he makes another land and do the same thing again. He cannot win with only one land, but provided he always holds Karakas until I've made an Ulamog I can never win either.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I was sure that I marked this one 6-0 to you. >_>
The other one is correct as well.
My blog.
I hold Leyline, Tundra and Foil in my hand for foiling down Progenitus, and play Student of Warfare using Karakas. Fate Stitcher can't get into play except by being unearthed.
Modern UW Taking Turns
Edit - Never mind-- Wurm never hits the graveyard because of Void
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Ulamog costs 11, therefore takes 8 + 11 life to cast twice.
I'm absolutely fine.
Edit: Oh, wait... no I'm not, because for some reason the deck I copied used Havenwood Battleground instead of Hickory Woodlot. <facepalm>
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
(Isn't his decks always the ones that cause problems? ;))
8 v 10
Listed 6-0
Suggested: 2-2
I can Snapback Ulamog when he plays him. Then his life is too low for a replay. Since that'd be a loss, he just never plays Ulamog until I drop the Fountain of Cho, which I never drop before Ulamog. So we stare at eachother.
8) bateleur
Black Lotus / Channel / Channel / Havenwood Battleground / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
10)Feyd_Ruin
Commandeer, Snapback, Mindbreak Trap, Purity, Fountain of Cho
No longer staff here.
Not being able to play foil makes my deck fail.
It's too bad about the Eldrazi shuffle ability making my deck not work, Emrakul would be way better than Proggy... though I would still lose to bmh on account of Emrakul getting hit by Karakas.
I was not previously aware of 5CB rule 2.6c:
and I'm not totally sure of its intent, especially the 'both tied decks are counted' bit. However, it seems like it is saying that bateleur should only get 6 POTM points (ced has more 6-0s) and Nom_Anor only 2 (~Tilde~ has more game wins). It could also possibly be construed t mean that Nom_Anor should not receive any, as when tie breaks are considered, he is not in the top 8.
Oh and also, quite apart from all of that, it may also be the case that everyone got 1 too many POTM points:
There were 10 total players, but only 9 (or 8, see above) made it to the top 8. I was under the impression that the intent was to cap POTM points at 8 (or 9 in cases like this week) so that the max possible wouldn't suddenly go from 19 to 8 when we hit the 20-player threshold. However, the wording "each player in the finals" does kind of sound like it would include all (potentially 19) players in a single-round week.
Bateleur goes Lotus, Woodlot, go. Next turn, removes a counter from Woodlot, Channel, go. Next turn, cast Ulamog off of Lotus-Channel-Woodlot (sacrificing Woodlot) for 8 life, nuking Fountain if you've played it, floating two green to play the second Channel if you haven't. Plays the second channel after nuking his other one with Ulamog (not a may trigger). You have to bounce Ulamog, at which point he casts him again off of the second channel for 11 life.
...At which point I figure out that Bat wasn't playing Woodlot. *facepalm*
My blog.
I blame bmh - what was he thinking with his land choice?!
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I, uh... Isn't weak to Vampire Hexmage?
My blog.
I ran the Havenwood variant because I expected to see Tabernacle.
Modern UW Taking Turns
It would have to be something like Tabernacle plus Leyline of the Void...
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Good idea!
I don't recall what I was thinking. Buyer beware!
Modern UW Taking Turns
Well you say that... Ulamog would destroy the Leyline on his way in!
Yes indeed!
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Cloudstone Curio / Crimson Kobolds / Crookshank Kobolds / Genesis Chamber / Mishra's Workshop
It's just like empty the warrens, except it makes even more guys!
Also, it would be cool if someone who was around for the rules updates and knows the intent could comment on the POTM-related points I raised on page 1 before it gets lost in the shuffle.
Oh and I also noticed that rule 1.1 has a stray [/URL] in it, though this doesn't seem to have been the case in previous weeks.
The intent behind 2.6c is, where possible, to limit the top 8 to eight players. If players are tied for the eighth spot, then the tiebreakers are applied to them. I'l note, though, that Nom_Amor actually scored only 10 points, so it shouldn't be an issue. The part, "both tied decks are counted" means that if no difference appears as a result of the tiebreakers, then both decks are added to the finals.
Your interpretation of 2.6b is correct (and, since there is an extra player in the finals, everyone actually has two more points than they shoud). Incidentally, bateleur should be the sole POTM June; as there were nine players in the last finals, and he placed third, he earns seven points, putting him at 21 points for the month.
I agree that there is room for improvement in those rules. I didn't give as much thought to them as to other sections, but it seemed necessary to have something there. I can suggest two improvements:
1. Eliminate the tiebreakers for rounds of less than twenty players. They are a hassle, easy to forget to do, easy to forget how to apply, and not really relevant in conjunction with the second improvement.
2. Make eight points the maximum for rounds of less than twenty players. Assign points in descending order as usual, and give one point to all players in the finals who are tied for the lowest score.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
I see how it makes sense in light of "The intent behind 2.6c is, where possible, to limit the top 8 to eight players.", but it seems like it would feel kinda bad to get knocked out of the top 8 (and thus deprived of 1 point) for something that someone who tied for fourth with the same bad tiebreaks was not penalized 1 point for.
This problem goes away if we adopt a slightly extended version of your proposal #1 though, as we can just say that tiebreaks are only for determining who gets out of a heat into the top 8, and that there are no tiebreaks whatsoever within the top 8 (even if there's a true tie in a heat and 9+ people end up in the top 8).
This dovetails nicely with your proposal #2, which I like.
...now that we have some nice fixes on the table, how do we go about implementing them? Back when 5CB was a one-man show, the procedure for rules changes was obvious, but now iunno how it's done. Do the mods vote? Do we just hope for consensus?
Also, I have just learned that that use of "dovetail" comes from a kind of joint in carpentry. Now you have learned it too!
My comment about POTM June related to 2.6c. The most accurate way to state the tiebreakers part might be "tiebreakers to determine who is included in the top 8".
Just to be perfectly clear, though I think my comment in the first part of this post clarifies it already, the intent never was to have tiebreakers inside the top eight. That is, two players tied for second would not have tiebreakers applied. Tiebreakers are only applied in cases where the top eight would be more than eight players. Re-reading the rule now, I think at least that's what I meant. It's so ambiguously worded that I'm not actually sure anymore.
The mods discuss, then implement.
I've made some.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
I'll give ced395 some time to appeal this technicality before making any changes. Seems a bit harsh, really.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
(@Alpha_Werewolf - Make sure you always have WYSIWYG editing mode off when doing this stuff, since it sometimes does slightly broken things!)
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Probably the problem, since I quoted #138's post for this.
The fixes will be applied soon.
My blog.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.