In the end I was pleased I'd kept the format untouched. There were a variety of clever decks submitted and some very interesting matches. And ironically (or perhaps appropriately) it looks like an exceedingly Timmy deck took the round after all!
This round's PotM took an exciting twist at the end, with bmh taking a well deserved win despite claiming not to like the format!
Alpha Werewolf is moderating again next week... I recommend entering, since the Normal format is a less understood metagame than it's been for a while. Interesting things may happen!
In the meantime, here are some results...
Results
Format: Timmy Week
* Spells cost 1 less to cast for each of his or her turns your opponent has completed.
* If a spell is countered or an effect an opponent controls causes you to discard or exile a card from your hand, place it on top of its owner's library.
* Whenever you have one or more spells in your hand which would be castable if not for an effect or ability your opponent controls, you may cast such spells as though those effects and/or abilities of those permanents did not apply.
1) bateleur - Ensnaring Bridge, Ensnaring Bridge, Mishra's Workshop, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn Whilst processing the previous round I was struck by how utterly awesome Ensnaring Bridge would be. The only question was how to win through both my own Bridge and a potential enemy Foil. In this format, the answer to everything is Eldrazi!
2) WhammWhamme - Chalice of the Void / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre / Foil / Island / Coretapper Sometimes powerful, but the big problem this deck suffers from is only having one threat. Chalice doesn't properly stop enemy Ulamog, so basically you have trouble beating anyone who has it.
3) jcsuperstar - Black Lotus / Nether Void / Leyline of Singularity / Karakas / Mishra's Factory The huge flaw in this deck is that it doesn't beat Ulamog plus three copies of Chimney Imp and a random land. The fact that Ulamog's destruction ability goes off independent of counters is critical to the way this format plays out. The silver lining is that it means missing last week didn't cost you a PotM win!
4) ced395 - Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Foil, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Snow-Covered Island, Trickbind Honestly, when you submitted this deck I thought it looked good. The main reason it isn't is because you cannot make the early Dreadnought without playing your Island, which basically makes it an all-in play on one bad threat. It was predictable that the format would be full of Foil and your deck doesn't beat any sane Foil build.
5) Feyd_Ruin - Leyline of Lifeforce, Mishra's Workshop, Metalworker, Duplicant, Platinum Angel This was a lot better than it looked - nice work. Your score started off a lot lower, then I kept finding new ways for you to win matches!
6) bmh - Ancestral Recall / Flash / Foil / Island / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre This deck is very clever! The scary thing is, it's strong despite having three big weaknesses. First, a need to play its Island (losing access to Foil) in order to cast Flash. Second, Ancestral Recall was awful. Third, Ulamog was your only threat. Good design, nonetheless!
7) hinotama - Chalice of the Void / Black Lotus / Mishra's Workshop / Platinum Angel / Leveler Fast Leveller was a neat idea. The big problem with Platinum Angel is that it dies to Annihilator. Feyd_Ruin's Duplicant in place of your Black Lotus might have been a better choice.
8) ~Tilde~ - Black Lotus / Emrakul, the Aeons Torn / Mountain / Pellaka Wurm / Sneak Attack My hat's off to you sir! Nobody is Timmier than you! Most decks had an answer to your threat this time, but I imagine you were expecting that.
9) Mogg - Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Channel / Mindbreak Trap / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre Not like you to go for an all-in deck! This performed fairly well, but Ulamog as your only threat wasn't ideal and the multiple Chalice played also hurt you.
Congratulations to bateleur and ced395 for winning Player of the Month June!
Rules
0. Overview
Five Card Blind (5CB) is a weekly Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit five-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules of Magic.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly five cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 5CB moderator.
2.1a. The moderator acknowledges submissions and reports problems in a timely manner.
2.1b. A player may submit multiple decks, but only the most recent is counted.
2.1c. An illegal deck is not counted. The removal of an illegal deck from a posted heat does not cause further changes to deck distribution (see Rule 2.5).
2.2. Decks are subject to some restrictions.
2.2a. A player may not submit a deck that can – against any deck – win the game or force more than one card in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn.
For example, Cabal Therapy / Scalding Tongs / Swamp x3 is illegal because an opponent's deck may have duplicates of a card, but Cabal Therapy / Scalding Tongs / Subterranean Hangar x3 is legal because Cabal Therapy can't be played until the third turn.
2.2b. A player may not submit a deck that can't win against any deck.
2.2c. A deck may include any number of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1), with the exception of the following banned cards:
2.3. Each player plays two games (one match) against each other player.
2.3a. Each player is the starting player once per match.
2.3b. If no player can win, the game is a draw.
2.3c. A player that can't win or draw plays to extend the game.
2.3d. Results assume optimal play and perfect information.
2.4. Points determine tournament standings.
2.4a. Players are ranked – first to last – in order of decreasing number of points.
2.4b. For each match, a player earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. However, a player earns only 2 points for a split match (one win, one loss).
2.4c. A table of match results is posted each round. Its rows represent players and its columns represent opponents. Match results reflect the combined result of both games played in a match; 3 is a game win, 1 a drawn game, and 0 a game loss. A player's points are listed at the end of his or her row.
2.5. In rounds of twenty or more players, players are divided randomly into equally-sized heats of n players, where n is the number of players divided by ten (rounded down).
For example, twenty-five players are divided into heats of twelve and thirteen.
2.5a. A player only plays against players in his heat.
2.5b. The top four players of each heat advance to the finals, where they play again (with the same decks).
2.5c. Tiebreakers for heats are as follows: number of matches in which a player wins both games, number of game wins, points scored against higher-scoring decks. If a tie is unresolved, both tied decks advance.
2.6. The player with the most POTM points over the course of a month is the Player of the Month.
2.6a. A month includes all rounds for which decks are due during that month.
2.6b. The top eight players of rounds of less than twenty players and all players in the finals of rounds of twenty or more players earn POTM points according to their rank; The player with the highest score earns 1 POTM point for each player in the finals, and each subsequent player earns one point less than the previous player. Tied players earn equal points but are counted as separate players when calculating the points of other players.
2.6c. Tiebreakers for top eight are as follows: number of matches in which a player wins both games, number of game wins, points scored against higher-scoring decks. If a tie is unresolved, both tied decks are counted.
Deck Submission Deadline:
Saturday, July 3rd, 8:00 pm GMT+2.
Submit your deck to Alpha Werewolf.
Please use this thread to discuss any aspect of 5CB. Also, consider a subscription to 5CB. Subscribed players who have not already submitted a deck receive a reminder PM about two days before deadline. PM bateleur, ced395, Mogg or Alpha Werewolf to subscribe.
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(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Flash seems semi pointless. He can't cast it after he foils, and flashing Ulamog in won't do anything except shuffle back up. He never has 8 real mana to pay to keep him, and it's put onto the battlefield rather than cast, so it won't destroy anything. Also, Ancestral shouldn't do anything, because shuffling is a random affect he controls, so he won't draw the island first to ancestral back up if it's more beneficial.
So all I really see is a Foil/Island/Ulamog. Since he can't play Ulamog until 10th/11th turn, how could he win most games? What am I missing?
it's put onto the battlefield rather than cast, so it won't destroy anything
Oh, whoops! That might affect a few things...
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(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Ok... I'm running through the matchups and I think I should do better.
Only the decks that have Foil can prevent me from getting Sneak Attack out turn 1 on the play, and even then, it just delays me for a few turns at most.
So:
VS. Bat - It's complicated, but the best Bat can do is hide behind his Bridges to force a draw. I'd be at 41 life before he can even cast Ulamog, and have the ability to reshuffle any destroyed stuff into my library effectively. (0-0-2 draw : 2 pts)
VS. WW - On the play, Whamm has to Foil Sneak Attack (Foil is still on the stack when Ulamog and Island shuffle back in, so Foil doesn't shuffle in.) He can't use Coretapper and Chalice to keep Sneak Attack off the board, because he can only get Chalice to 3 counters before I'm able to Timmy cast SA. Once SA is on the board, Emmy should be able to win. On the draw, Whamm should be able to get 4 counters on Chalice in time. (1-1 draw : 2 pts)
Vs: JC - On the play, I can get SA out t1 and Nether Void doesn't prevent me from Sneaking Emmy out. (This forces JC to continually use Karakas to bounce Emmy, and eventually Emmy becomes cheap enough to hardcast, which nets me an extra turn) On the draw, JC's first turn Void keeps my stuff off the board long enough for Factory to grind in for the win. (1-1 draw : 2 pts)
Vs: Ced - Ced can delay me getting SA on the board for 1 turn with Foil, but Emmy still annihilates his board before he can kill me (2-0 win : 6 pts)
Vs: Feyd - Yeah.. crunched by the Flying Spaghetti Monster (2-0 win : 6 pts)
Vs: bmh - Flashing Ulamog out doesn't give the Vindicate effect. (2-0 win : 6 pts)
Vs: Hinotama - Darn Chalice for :0mana:. (1-1 draw : 2 pts)
vs: Mogg - Can use the 2nd Lotus to hardcast Mindbreak Trap. (0-2 loss : 0 pts)
bateleur : interesting match actually. bmh has to save foil for the post-ulamog bridge. which lets bateleur legend kill the ulamog until he drops emrakul.
WhammWhamme : tie. the foil and chalice wars are nice, but chalice will only give WW one extra turn. It'll legend-rule foil-foil to a tie at 10 life v 20 life.
jcsuperstar : win. His island lets him play Ulamog when he's at 2 life. Ulamog-kill factory gives him the turns he needs. He can then Ulamog-kill karakas, and finally nethervoid for the win.
ced395 : loss. He can foil Dreadnaught, but then he'll try again next turn before he has foil back. He can't save foil for Trickbind 'cause of split second.
Feyd_Ruin : loss. Angel beats through, even after a foil-turn, before he can Ulamog.
hinotama : loss. Angel beats as well.
~Tilde~ : loss. Foil lotus/sneak. He redraws and can retry, then Sneaks away for the win.
Mogg : tie. Mogg's Ulamog hits 3 turns sooner (lotus), but he can foil it (not ditching Ulamog) and then legend rule a tie.
VS. Bat - It's complicated, but the best Bat can do is hide behind his Bridges to force a draw. I'd be at 41 life before he can even cast Ulamog, and have the ability to reshuffle any destroyed stuff into my library effectively. (0-0-2 draw : 2 pts)
That's a bit optimistic!
I hide behind my bridges until I reach a 15 mana discount and can cast Emrakul for free. I then cast Ulamog and Emrakul (in that order) in the same turn. From that point on you have no way to remove Ulamog, which hits you for 10 damage per turn every turn. Every time it does, you sac you entire board and it takes you a minimum of two draw steps to be in a position to Sneak in another creature. By that point you can hardcast Emrakul and therefore get an occasional extra turn, but I can do that too, so ultimately I'm dealing damage faster than you gain life by a considerable margin. Eventually you die.
Edit: Feyd_Ruin has spotted that I cannot in fact use Workshop mana to cast Ulamog, which may affect some of my other matches. I don't have time to check them now, but will do so tomorrow sometime.
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Ok... I'm running through the matchups and I think I should do better.
Only the decks that have Foil can prevent me from getting Sneak Attack out turn 1 on the play, and even then, it just delays me for a few turns at most.
So:
VS. Bat - It's complicated, but the best Bat can do is hide behind his Bridges to force a draw. I'd be at 41 life before he can even cast Ulamog, and have the ability to reshuffle any destroyed stuff into my library effectively. (0-0-2 draw : 2 pts)
VS. WW - On the play, Whamm has to Foil Sneak Attack (Foil is still on the stack when Ulamog and Island shuffle back in, so Foil doesn't shuffle in.) He can't use Coretapper and Chalice to keep Sneak Attack off the board, because he can only get Chalice to 3 counters before I'm able to Timmy cast SA. Once SA is on the board, Emmy should be able to win. On the draw, Whamm should be able to get 4 counters on Chalice in time. (1-1 draw : 2 pts)
Vs: JC - On the play, I can get SA out t1 and Nether Void doesn't prevent me from Sneaking Emmy out. (This forces JC to continually use Karakas to bounce Emmy, and eventually Emmy becomes cheap enough to hardcast, which nets me an extra turn) On the draw, JC's first turn Void keeps my stuff off the board long enough for Factory to grind in for the win. (1-1 draw : 2 pts)
Vs: Ced - Ced can delay me getting SA on the board for 1 turn with Foil, but Emmy still annihilates his board before he can kill me (2-0 win : 6 pts)
Vs: Feyd - Yeah.. crunched by the Flying Spaghetti Monster (2-0 win : 6 pts)
Vs: bmh - Flashing Ulamog out doesn't give the Vindicate effect. (2-0 win : 6 pts)
Vs: Hinotama - Darn Chalice for :0mana:. (1-1 draw : 2 pts)
vs: Mogg - Can use the 2nd Lotus to hardcast Mindbreak Trap. (0-2 loss : 0 pts)
I should total 26 pts then
Just me vs you:
When you are on the play, the first time you play SA, I foil, leaving Coretapper and Chalice in hand.
I do nothing turn one
You do nothing. (SA costs 3)
I play Coretapper turn two for 0 mana
You do nothing. (SA costs 2)
I play Chalice for one (discount of 3 mana) and add three counters with Coretapper (tap and sacrifice).
Seven turns later I play Ulamog (popping the Mountain) and beat you to death.
Feyd_Ruin has spotted that I cannot in fact use Workshop mana to cast Ulamog, which may affect some of my other matches. I don't have time to check them now, but will do so tomorrow sometime.
It actually only affects one match: JCsuperstar.
(who goes first doesn't matter, since he doesn't use the free mana, and either way you don't start getting boosted until after his turns. Whether or not you get bridge out before his Void doesn't matter either, since Factory's a 2/2.)
Ok... I'm running through the matchups and I think I should do better.
Only the decks that have Foil can prevent me from getting Sneak Attack out turn 1 on the play, and even then, it just delays me for a few turns at most.
So:
VS. Bat - It's complicated, but the best Bat can do is hide behind his Bridges to force a draw. I'd be at 41 life before he can even cast Ulamog, and have the ability to reshuffle any destroyed stuff into my library effectively. (0-0-2 draw : 2 pts)
Bat's right. His Ulamog beats you down. You actually never go on the offensive.
He 6-0s.
Mountain->Lotus->Sneak
Workshop->Bridge.
~Tilde~ Cycles through Wurm & Em to gain 7 life every 3 turns.
On turn 15, he should be at 55.
Lotus will have returned to hand, and kept so he draws the others faster.
skip to turn 15...
B: Ulamog (Kill bridge) and Emrakul (extra turn).
B: (Attack step) T sneaks in his Emrakul. Legend rule kills.
Ulamog attacks. T @ 45, wiped board.
[shuffles will make sure you both draw least beneficial first]
T's Library: Mountain, Sneak, Emrakul
B's Library: Bridge, Emrakul
T: Draw Mountain. Lotus -> Wurm. (52)
B: Draw Bridge. Does NOT attack.
(If he does, wurm sac to draw sneak. then he'd draw emrakul to come back)
T: Draw sneak attack.
B: Draw Emrakul. Swing to 42. Emrakul.
B: Extra turn. Swing to 17.
T: Emrakul to Legend-rule-kill.
T: Extra turn, draw Lotus.
B: Draw Emrakul. Umalog swing to 7. Emrakul.
B: Extra turn. Swing for win.
VS. WW - On the play, Whamm has to Foil Sneak Attack (Foil is still on the stack when Ulamog and Island shuffle back in, so Foil doesn't shuffle in.) He can't use Coretapper and Chalice to keep Sneak Attack off the board, because he can only get Chalice to 3 counters before I'm able to Timmy cast SA. Once SA is on the board, Emmy should be able to win. On the draw, Whamm should be able to get 4 counters on Chalice in time. (1-1 draw : 2 pts)
You're right.
WhammWhamme is (3-3)
This format, it's better to go 2nd. On the draw you win.
Play w/ early chalice:
W: Chalice for 0.
T: Mountain (+1)
W: -
T: (+2)
W: Coretapper
T: Sneak Attack (Foiled)
W: Tap core for counter 1. (can sac to get it up to 3)
T: Sneak Attack.
Play with late chalice:
W: -
T: Mountain, Lotus, Sneak (Foil)
W: Draw Ulamog.
T: -
W: Coretapper, Chalice for 1. (can sac to get it up to 3)
T: Sneak Attack.
On the Draw (WW wins):
T: Mountain, Lotus -> Sneak (Foiled)
W: Draw Ulamog.
T: Draw countered Sneak. (1 mana free)
W: Draw Island. Chalice for 1, Coretapper.
T: (2 Mana free.)
W: Tap coretapper for counter 2. Sac coretapper for counters 3 & 4.
T: Chalice @ 4, so no sneak.
His ulamog then comes down and hits you twice before you can Emrakul.
Vs: JC - On the play, I can get SA out t1 and Nether Void doesn't prevent me from Sneaking Emmy out. (This forces JC to continually use Karakas to bounce Emmy, and eventually Emmy becomes cheap enough to hardcast, which nets me an extra turn) On the draw, JC's first turn Void keeps my stuff off the board long enough for Factory to grind in for the win. (1-1 draw : 2 pts)
You're right. he can't animate factory because then he won't be able to bounce emrakul, which means he'll have his board wiped. At turn 15, you drop Emrakul hardcasted (void proof). Take an extra turn. He can bounce either turn, but then you recast for another extra before he untaps. Swing to wipe his board.
Vs: Ced - Ced can delay me getting SA on the board for 1 turn with Foil, but Emmy still annihilates his board before he can kill me (2-0 win : 6 pts)
Correct on your draw, but on your play, Ced delays you, and then get's naught out before you can sneak.
T: Lotus, Mountain, Sneak [Foiled]
C: Draw Em.
T: (1 free mana)
C: Draw Island. Island, Dreadnaught, Trickbind for a 12/12.
T: (2 Free Mana)
C: Swing. T@8
T: (3 Free) Sneak Attack. No more to sneak out.
C: Swing for the win.
On the play
C: -
T: Lotus, Mountain, Sneak [Foiled]
C: Draw Em.
T: (2 free mana)
C: Draw Island. Island, Dreadnaught, Trickbind for a 12/12.
T: Sneak Attack (No more :symr:)
C: Swing. T@8
T: Sneak in Em to wipe board.
C: -
T: Wurm for win.
I hide behind my bridges until I reach a 15 mana discount and can cast Emrakul for free. I then cast Ulamog and Emrakul (in that order) in the same turn. From that point on you have no way to remove Ulamog, which hits you for 10 damage per turn every turn. Every time it does, you sac you entire board and it takes you a minimum of two draw steps to be in a position to Sneak in another creature.
OK.. yeah.. you can pull out a win that way... but GOLLY IT'S COMPLICATED!
By the time you reach the 15 mana discount I'd be at 55 life with Black Lotus, Pellaka Wurm and Emmy in hand and Mountain (untapped) and Sneak Attack on the board. You cast Ulamog (blowing up Sneak Attack) then cast Emmy. I do NOTHING in response. Your bonus turn, you can attack for 25 and kill the Mountain. I then free play Emmy (both Emmys die and shuffle back in, my library is Mountain, Sneak Attack, Emrakul, you have a Bridge, then Emrakul), play Black Lotus and sac for Green and play Pelakka Wurm (37 life) My bonus turn, I attack with the Wurm, putting you at 13 life.
Your next turn, you draw a Bridge. Now you can attack for 10 and kill my Wurm (but that let's me draw) so you just do nothing. You can't play a Bridge because you have no method of getting rid of it. My next turn I draw Sneak Attack, then attack for 7, you can't block because then I draw Emrakul and free play it on my second main phase, then swing for 15 on my extra turn. Then your next turn you draw Emmy and play it, then attack for 10 (kills my Wurm, I draw Emmy) Your bonus turn, you can swing for 25 (2 life!) My next turn, I free play Emmy (both die and shuffle in, but my graveyard is Lotus, PW and Emmy) then I draw Lotus on my bonus turn (PW and Emmy in library, Mountain and SA in hand)
OK.. yeah.. you can pull out a win that way... but GOLLY IT'S COMPLICATED!
Yeah, that's... more complex than I thought it was!
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Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Oho! Feyd's analysis of me vs. Bat shows me a way I can win!
On turn 15, he should be at 55.
Lotus will have returned to hand, and kept so he draws the others faster.
skip to turn 15...
T: In play - Untapped Mountain and Sneak Attack
In hand - Lotus, PW and Emmy
B: In play - Workshop, Bridge
In hand - Ulamog, Emmy and Bridge
B: Ulamog (Kill bridge) and Emrakul (extra turn). I sneak Emmy in before Bat's attack with Ulamog so that Emmy shuffles to my library top. (Bat's library is now Bridge, Emmy)
B: (Attack step) Ulamog attacks. T @ 45, wiped board.
B's Library: Bridge, Emrakul
T: Draw, then freeplay Emrakul, Lotus -> Wurm. (52)
Swing for 22 on my extra turn.
Oho! Feyd's analysis of me vs. Bat shows me a way I can win!
Actually, I think we're overcomplicating this massively.
You only need to go above 25 life and then sit there with Emrakul in hand. Every time I remove my bridge I can do at most 25 damage to you before you get a turn. When you get a turn you play Emrakul (it dies), getting an extra turn, then on your extra turn you play Emrakul again, getting another extra turn, then you attack me, making me sac both my Eldrazi and dealing 15. I draw Ulamog (because it's worse for me) and use it to kill your Emrakul, but on your turn you just recast it again and kill me. (Or if I don't kill it, you just attack and kill me.)
Turns out you are the Timmiest after all - lifegain FTW! (How awesome is this match? :D)
Well OK, it's really a draw rather than a win. Still awesome!
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Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I Channel into Ulamog with protection from Foil via Mindbreak Trap (off Lotus). I swing once before bmh Flashes Ulamog and legend rules. I get everything back and replay Ulamog with protection from Flash/Ulamog.
WW on the play Foils Dreadnought, but can't immediately play Chalice for X=1.
Actually the aspect I missed here is that he can't draw the Island because the shuffling rules cause him to draw something unhelpful first.
Otherwise he could indeed play Chalice for X=1.
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Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Chronatog would have been crazy good in this format sorry I missed it
I was searching and searching to make a Chronatog deck, but couldn't find anything I liked terribly. I waited until the last minute to submit my deck in hopes I could find something.
The best I came up with was Tog + Embargo-Donate. Two Loti version died to foil/mindbreak, and Lotus-Island seemed too slow.
In retrospect, I wish I'd have gone with the island version for the fun of it. It wouldn't have done as well, but it'd have made me smile
Quote from Mogg »
I Channel into Ulamog with protection from Foil via Mindbreak Trap (off Lotus). I swing once before bmh Flashes Ulamog and legend rules. I get everything back and replay Ulamog with protection from Flash/Ulamog.
Yep. I missed that he can't foil your hardcast Mindbreak on his flash the 2nd go around, because his island is in play.
Without spoiling the card, I just want to say that this preview card - and the potential for a cycle of similar cards (moreso the potential, since this card is a good candidate for banning) - makes me really excited to play 5CB once M11 is out.
If you want to discuss details of this, put it in spoiler tags so that people who don't want to read about the new set can ignore it.
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Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
So, I've applied the corrections and... Feyd_Ruin wins 5CB #138!
Also, I and ced395 are tied for PotM June!
(These results assume ~Tilde~ and I draw our match. Even if I actually win I cannot catch Feyd_Ruin's score. Since I'm already winning PotM I can't be bothered to think any more about this match. It's obvious ~Tilde~ can't win it, which is all we need to know! Also, if anyone does reprocess it and get a different result, ced395 might punch you. ;))
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
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This round's PotM took an exciting twist at the end, with bmh taking a well deserved win despite claiming not to like the format!
Alpha Werewolf is moderating again next week... I recommend entering, since the Normal format is a less understood metagame than it's been for a while. Interesting things may happen!
In the meantime, here are some results...
Results
Format: Timmy Week
* Spells cost 1 less to cast for each of his or her turns your opponent has completed.
* If a spell is countered or an effect an opponent controls causes you to discard or exile a card from your hand, place it on top of its owner's library.
* Whenever you have one or more spells in your hand which would be castable if not for an effect or ability your opponent controls, you may cast such spells as though those effects and/or abilities of those permanents did not apply.
* Commandeer and Smokestack are banned.
1) bateleur - Ensnaring Bridge, Ensnaring Bridge, Mishra's Workshop, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Whilst processing the previous round I was struck by how utterly awesome Ensnaring Bridge would be. The only question was how to win through both my own Bridge and a potential enemy Foil. In this format, the answer to everything is Eldrazi!
2) WhammWhamme - Chalice of the Void / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre / Foil / Island / Coretapper
Sometimes powerful, but the big problem this deck suffers from is only having one threat. Chalice doesn't properly stop enemy Ulamog, so basically you have trouble beating anyone who has it.
3) jcsuperstar - Black Lotus / Nether Void / Leyline of Singularity / Karakas / Mishra's Factory
The huge flaw in this deck is that it doesn't beat Ulamog plus three copies of Chimney Imp and a random land. The fact that Ulamog's destruction ability goes off independent of counters is critical to the way this format plays out. The silver lining is that it means missing last week didn't cost you a PotM win!
4) ced395 - Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Foil, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Snow-Covered Island, Trickbind
Honestly, when you submitted this deck I thought it looked good. The main reason it isn't is because you cannot make the early Dreadnought without playing your Island, which basically makes it an all-in play on one bad threat. It was predictable that the format would be full of Foil and your deck doesn't beat any sane Foil build.
5) Feyd_Ruin - Leyline of Lifeforce, Mishra's Workshop, Metalworker, Duplicant, Platinum Angel
This was a lot better than it looked - nice work. Your score started off a lot lower, then I kept finding new ways for you to win matches!
6) bmh - Ancestral Recall / Flash / Foil / Island / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
This deck is very clever! The scary thing is, it's strong despite having three big weaknesses. First, a need to play its Island (losing access to Foil) in order to cast Flash. Second, Ancestral Recall was awful. Third, Ulamog was your only threat. Good design, nonetheless!
7) hinotama - Chalice of the Void / Black Lotus / Mishra's Workshop / Platinum Angel / Leveler
Fast Leveller was a neat idea. The big problem with Platinum Angel is that it dies to Annihilator. Feyd_Ruin's Duplicant in place of your Black Lotus might have been a better choice.
8) ~Tilde~ - Black Lotus / Emrakul, the Aeons Torn / Mountain / Pellaka Wurm / Sneak Attack
My hat's off to you sir! Nobody is Timmier than you! Most decks had an answer to your threat this time, but I imagine you were expecting that.
9) Mogg - Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Channel / Mindbreak Trap / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Not like you to go for an all-in deck! This performed fairly well, but Ulamog as your only threat wasn't ideal and the multiple Chalice played also hurt you.
----------------------------------
X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
1| X 6 3 0 0 6 3 2 6 30
2| 0 X 6 3 0 2 0 6 3 18
3| 3 0 X 6 0 0 0 4 0 12
4| 0 3 0 X 0 6 0 0 0 8
5| 6 6 6 6 X 6 6 0 0 36
6| 0 2 6 0 0 X 0 0 0 8
7| 3 6 6 6 0 6 X 3 3 30
8| 2 0 1 6 6 6 3 X 0 23
9| 0 3 6 6 6 6 3 6 X 34
1) Feyd_Ruin (5)
2) Mogg (9)
3) bateleur (1)
3= hinotama (7)
5) ~Tilde~ (8)
6) WhammWhamme (2)
7) jcsuperstar (3)
8) bmh (6)
8= ced (4)
Feyd_Ruin wins 5CB #138!
Player of the Month June 2010
1. bateleur: 20
1= ced395: 20
3. bmh: 19
4. jcsuperstar: 18
5. Feyd_Ruin: 15
5= Mogg: 15
7. ~Tilde~: 13
8. OneMoreTime: 12
8= Madmanquail: 12
10. WhammWhamme: 11
11. hinotama: 6
12. Nom_Anor: 5
13. lOPut: 4
13= darko121: 4
13= Feyd_Ruin: 4
Congratulations to bateleur and ced395 for winning Player of the Month June!
0. Overview
Five Card Blind (5CB) is a weekly Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit five-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules of Magic.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly five cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 5CB moderator.
2.2. Decks are subject to some restrictions.
2.3. Each player plays two games (one match) against each other player.
2.4. Points determine tournament standings.
2.5. In rounds of twenty or more players, players are divided randomly into equally-sized heats of n players, where n is the number of players divided by ten (rounded down).
2.6. The player with the most POTM points over the course of a month is the Player of the Month.
Season 1
March 2005
Round 1 r_x, Greebo, zorbop
Round 2 Ankh-Morpokian
Round 3 Greebo
Round 4 Chimpanzee
POTM: Greebo
April 2005
Round 5 help im a bug, Draco9_1_1 (Only Creatures)
Round 6 Greebo (Only Creatures)
Round 7 spuzzem king
Round 8 bateleur
POTM: spuzzem king
May 2005
Round 9 Feyd_Ruin (Only Multicolor)
Round 10 jcsuperstar (Only Multicolor)
Round 11 Lone Warrior
Round 12 Wanderer359
POTM: WhammWhamme
June 2005
Round 13 Silver Seraph, Greebo (Titania's Song)
Round 14 WhammWhamme (Titania's Song)
Round 15 Tahn (Artist Tribute)
Round 16 Lone Warrior (Artist Tribute)
POTM: bateleur, Greebo
July 2005
Round 17 Shadowlord
Round 18 bateleur
Round 19 Shadowlord (Pay 19: Add 1)
Round 20 Greebo (Pay 19: Add 1)
POTM: Shadowlord
August 2005
Round 21 Greebo
Round 22 Greebo
Round 23 spuzzem king (One-Million Life)
Round 24 WhammWhamme (One-Million Life)
POTM: Greebo
September 2005
Round 25 Chimpanzee, Shadowlord
Round 26 dasheiff
Round 27 Chimpanzee (Orrery)
Round 28 Halinn (Orrery)
POTM: jcsuperstar
October 2005
Round 29 Beaker
Round 30 Feuerdrache, Wanderer359
Round 31 r_x (Dream Halls)
Round 32 Puzzle (Dream Halls)
POTM: Chimpanzee
November 2005
Round 33 bateleur
Round 34 Shadowlord
Round 35 jcsuperstar (Backbuild)
Round 36 jcsuperstar (Backbuild)
POTM: bateleur
December 2005
Round 37 bateleur
Round 38 Wanderer359
Round 39 WhammWhamme (Ban a Card)
Round 40 dasheiff, Lone Warrior (Ban a Card)
POTM: Beaker
January 2006
Round 41 Lone Warrior
Round 42 Silver Seraph
Round 43 Trojan (1984)
Round 44 Beaker (1984)
POTM: Lone Warrior
February 2006
Round 45 bateleur
Round 46 Halinn
Round 47 bateleur (7 Life)
Round 48 Chimpanzee (7 Life)
POTM: bateleur
March 2006
Round 49 armlx
Round 50 bateleur
Round 51 armlx (Leyline)
Round 52 Chimpanzee, Greebo (Leyline)
POTM: armlx
April 2006
Round 53 jcsuperstar
Round 54 armlx
Round 55 bateleur (Epic)
Round 56 Xyre (Epic)
POTM: jcsuperstar
May 2006
Round 57 jcsuperstar
Round 58 Pingele_Pats (Banathon)
Round 59 Amadi (Banathon)
Round 60 Solitaire (Banathon)
POTM: Pingele_Pats
June 2006
Round 61 Farik (One-Million Life)
Round 62 Wrath_of_Dog, zu_Faul (Leyline)
Round 63 Beaker (7 Life)
POTM: silicon
July 2006
Round 64 Pingele_Pats (Multi-Set)
Round 65 WhammWhamme, zu_Faul (Extended)
POTM: None
September 2007
Round 1 (Introduction)
Round 2 andelijah
POTM: None
October 2007
Round 3 Mogg
Round 4 Chimpanzee (Lorwyn)
Round 5 Meat Popsicle (Repeat Letters)
Round 6 Mogg (10 Life)
POTM: Mogg
November 2007
Round 7 Death_By_Beebles
Round 8 jcsuperstar (Mindslaver)
Round 9 Mogg (Thanksgiving Special)
Round 10 Mogg (Thanksgiving Special, Part Two)
POTM: Mogg
December 2007
Round 11 carrion pigeons
Round 12 Mogg (Later Alphabet)
Round 13 Mogg (Backbuild)
Round 14 Xyre (Backbuild)
POTM: Mogg
January 2008
Round 15 armlx
Round 16 Chimpanzee (Auras)
Round 17 Mogg (Doubling Season)
Round 18 carrion pigeons, Chimpanzee (Doubling Season)
Round 19 WhammWhamme (31 Bans)
POTM: Mogg
February 2008
Round 20 Chimpanzee
Round 21 Mogg (Combat)
Round 22 Mogg (Combat)
Round 23 Knowledge
POTM: Mogg
March 2008
Round 24 Mogg (Consecutive Names)
Round 25 Chimpanzee (Consecutive Names)
Round 26 The Mad Tapper
Round 27 The Mad Tapper
POTM: The Mad Tapper
April 2008
Round 28 The Mad Tapper (DC5)
Round 29 jcsuperstar (DC5)
Round 30 jcsuperstar (< 20)
Round 31 bateleur
POTM: bateleur
May 2008
Round 32 WhammWhamme (Leyline)
Round 33 Silver Seraph (Mana Market)
Round 34 bateleur (Helm of Awakening and Mirari)
Round 35 Alfred (Pre-entered Decks)
POTM: bateleur
June 2008
Round 36 bateleur, YuanTi
Round 37 WhammWhamme (Favorite Colors)
Round 38 YuanTi (Lotus)
Round 39 Mogg (Mogg Week)
POTM: WhammWhamme
July 2008
Round 40 bateleur (Mulligans)
Round 41 Mogg
Round 42 Chimpanzee
Round 43 ced395 (Even)
POTM: Mogg
August 2008
Round 44 WhammWhamme (Odd)
Round 45 Farik (No Bans)
Round 46 Mogg
POTM: Error1
September 2008
Round 47 ghweiss (Low-Scoring)
Round 48 theeguy (Backbuild, Part Two)
Round 49 Mogg
Round 50 Mogg (50 Life)
Round 51 Error1 (Landline)
POTM: Mogg
October 2008
Round 52 Shogun17 (Exploration)
Round 53 MT_Gunn (Multicolor Discount)
Round 54 Silkenfist (2-2)
Round 55 bateleur, WhammWhamme
POTM: Error1
November 2008
Round 56 Error1 (Colorless Creatures)
Round 57 Knowledge, Silkenfist (Legendary Creatures)
POTM: None
December 2008
Round 58 (Introduction)
Round 59 Halinn
Round 60 Halinn
Round 61 ced395 (Christmas Special)
Round 62 MyNameIsFourteen (New Year's Special)
POTM: None
January 2009
Round 63 Mogg
Round 64 Mogg (Nemesis)
Round 65 MyNameIsFourteen (Nemesis)
Round 66 Mogg
POTM: Mogg
February 2009
Round 67 Chimpanzee
Round 68 MyNameIsFourteen (Lovely Letters)
Round 69 Naphtali (Lovely Letters, Part 2)
Round 70 bateleur
POTM: bateleur
March 2009
Round 71 ced395, Chimpanzee
Round 72 ced395 (Activated)
Round 73 WhammWhamme (Activated)
Round 74 bateleur
POTM: Chimpanzee
April 2009
Round 75 Xyre
Round 76 Mogg, ngollon (Landline-Orrery)
Round 77 Mogg (Landline-Orrery)
Round 78 Mogg
POTM: Mogg
May 2009
Round 79 bateleur
Round 80 ced395 (Upwelling)
Round 81 Mogg (Upwelling)
Round 82 Halinn
Round 83 r_x_
New Player Round math_geek
POTM: Mogg
June 2009
Round 84 Kekekekeke (Block Party)
Round 85 FuriouslySleepingIdea (Block Party)
Round 86 Mogg
Round 87 Farik
POTM: Mogg
July 2009
Round 88 bateleur, dethwing (Infinite Cards)
Round 89 Farik, lOput (Infinite Cards)
Round 90 Farik, Mogg, Personman
Round 91 Madmanquail
Round 92 bateleur (Backbuild, Part Three)
POTM: Madmanquail
August 2009
Round 93 DragonDart (Backbuild, Part Three)
Round 94 lOput
Round 95 domogrue
Round 96 Mogg (Dream Halls)
POTM: ced395
September 2009
Round 97 Mogg (Dream Halls)
Round 98 ced395
Round 99 FuriouslySleepingIdea
Round 100 bateleur, dethwing, FuriouslySleepingIdea, Krashbot, Shogun17, VikingMetal4L (100 Turns)
POTM: FuriouslySleepingIdea
October 2009
Round 101 Shogun17 (100 Turns Revised)
Round 102 Madmanquail
Round 103 bateleur, bman65, ced395
Round 104 (Results) VikingMetal4L
Round 105 SumPhatGuy (Strawman)
POTM: ced395
November 2009
Round 106 bman65 (Strawman)
Round 107 bateleur
Round 108 Madmanquail
Round 109 bman65 (Respray)
POTM: bman65
December 2009
Round 110 Xyre (Respray)
Round 111 ced395
Round 112 Personman
Round 113 Hinotama, WhammWhamme (Niches)
POTM: bman65
January 2010
Round 114 Mogg (Niches)
Round 115 Madmanquail
Round 116 bmh, Personman
Round 117 bateleur (Suspense)
Round 118 VikingMetal4L (Suspense)
POTM: bmh
February 2010
Round 119 VikingMetal4L
Round 120 Madmanquail
Round 121 Madmanquail (Fork)
Round 122 Mogg, ~Tilde~ (Fork)
PotM: Madmanquail
March 2010
Round 123 Hinotama
Round 124 Madmanquail, Personman
Round 125 lOput (Library)
Round 126 lOput (Library)
PotM: lOput
April 2010
Round 127 tomsloger
Round 128 ~Tilde~, ced395
Round 129 Naphtali (Wordy)
Round 130 Feyd_Ruin (Wordy)
PotM: ced395
May 2010
Round 131 bmh
Round 132 bmh
Round 133 ced395 (Bargain)
Round 134 ced395, Madmanquail (Bargain)
PotM: ced395
June 2010
Round 135 jcsuperstar, WhammWhamme
Round 136 ced395
Round 137 Mogg (Timmy)
Round 138 Feyd_Ruin (Timmy)
Rounds
Mogg: 29
bateleur: 23
ced395: 13
Chimpanzee: 12
WhammWhamme: 12
jcsuperstar: 9
Greebo: 8
Madmanquail: 8
Farik: 5
Halinn: 5
bmh: 4
armlx: 4
Lone Warrior: 4
Personman: 4
Shadowlord: 4
VikingMetal4L: 4
Xyre: 4
lOput: 4
Beaker: 3
bman65: 3
Feyd_Ruin: 3
FuriouslySleepingIdea: 3
MyNameIsFourteen: 3
r_x_: 3
Shogun17: 3
Silver Seraph: 3
The Mad Tapper: 3
Wanderer359: 3
carrion pigeons: 2
dasheiff: 2
dethwing: 2
Error1: 2
Knowledge: 2
Naphtali: 2
Pingele_Pats: 2
Silkenfist: 2
spuzzem king: 2
YuanTi: 2
zu_Faul: 2
~Tilde~: 2
Alfred: 1
Amadi: 1
andelijah: 1
Ankh-Morpokian: 1
Death By Beebles: 1
domogrue: 1
Draco9_1_1: 1
DragonDart: 1
Feuerdrache: 1
ghweiss: 1
help im a bug: 1
Hinotama: 1
Kekekekeke: 1
Hinotama: 1
Krashbot: 1
Meat Popsicle: 1
MT Gunn: 1
ngollon: 1
Puzzle: 1
Solitaire: 1
SumPhatGuy: 1
Tahn: 1
theeguy: 1
Trojan: 1
tomsloger: 1
Wrath_of_Dog: 1
zorbop: 1
POTM
Mogg: 11
bateleur: 7
ced395: 5
Greebo: 3
Madmanquail: 2
bman65: 2
Chimpanzee: 2
Error1: 2
jcsuperstar: 2
WhammWhamme: 2
bmh: 1
armlx: 1
Beaker: 1
FuriouslySleepingIdea: 1
Lone Warrior: 1
lOput: 1
math_geek: 1
Pingele_Pats: 1
Shadowlord: 1
silicon: 1
spuzzem king: 1
The Mad Tapper: 1
Dom Camus
Five Card Blind
Nick Chandler-Klein
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 1)
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 2)
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 3)
Alex Hoffman
Going Blind: A First Look at Lands
Going Blind: A Non-Basic Approach
Going Blind: Metagaming – Being Overly Analytical
Going Blind: Metagaming #2 – All Decked Out
Going Blind: XCB Metagaming – A Prolonged Conclusion
Forum Articles
Madmanquail
5CB Strategy
Mogg
5CB Strategy
Format: Normal Week
Deck Submission Deadline:
Saturday, July 3rd, 8:00 pm GMT+2.
Submit your deck to Alpha Werewolf.
Please use this thread to discuss any aspect of 5CB. Also, consider a subscription to 5CB. Subscribed players who have not already submitted a deck receive a reminder PM about two days before deadline. PM bateleur, ced395, Mogg or Alpha Werewolf to subscribe.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Modern UW Taking Turns
Flash seems semi pointless. He can't cast it after he foils, and flashing Ulamog in won't do anything except shuffle back up. He never has 8 real mana to pay to keep him, and it's put onto the battlefield rather than cast, so it won't destroy anything. Also, Ancestral shouldn't do anything, because shuffling is a random affect he controls, so he won't draw the island first to ancestral back up if it's more beneficial.
So all I really see is a Foil/Island/Ulamog. Since he can't play Ulamog until 10th/11th turn, how could he win most games? What am I missing?
No longer staff here.
Oh, whoops! That might affect a few things...
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Only the decks that have Foil can prevent me from getting Sneak Attack out turn 1 on the play, and even then, it just delays me for a few turns at most.
So:
VS. Bat - It's complicated, but the best Bat can do is hide behind his Bridges to force a draw. I'd be at 41 life before he can even cast Ulamog, and have the ability to reshuffle any destroyed stuff into my library effectively. (0-0-2 draw : 2 pts)
VS. WW - On the play, Whamm has to Foil Sneak Attack (Foil is still on the stack when Ulamog and Island shuffle back in, so Foil doesn't shuffle in.) He can't use Coretapper and Chalice to keep Sneak Attack off the board, because he can only get Chalice to 3 counters before I'm able to Timmy cast SA. Once SA is on the board, Emmy should be able to win. On the draw, Whamm should be able to get 4 counters on Chalice in time. (1-1 draw : 2 pts)
Vs: JC - On the play, I can get SA out t1 and Nether Void doesn't prevent me from Sneaking Emmy out. (This forces JC to continually use Karakas to bounce Emmy, and eventually Emmy becomes cheap enough to hardcast, which nets me an extra turn) On the draw, JC's first turn Void keeps my stuff off the board long enough for Factory to grind in for the win. (1-1 draw : 2 pts)
Vs: Ced - Ced can delay me getting SA on the board for 1 turn with Foil, but Emmy still annihilates his board before he can kill me (2-0 win : 6 pts)
Vs: Feyd - Yeah.. crunched by the Flying Spaghetti Monster (2-0 win : 6 pts)
Vs: bmh - Flashing Ulamog out doesn't give the Vindicate effect. (2-0 win : 6 pts)
Vs: Hinotama - Darn Chalice for :0mana:. (1-1 draw : 2 pts)
vs: Mogg - Can use the 2nd Lotus to hardcast Mindbreak Trap. (0-2 loss : 0 pts)
I should total 26 pts then
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
6| 0 2 6 0 0 X 0 0 2 10
bateleur : interesting match actually. bmh has to save foil for the post-ulamog bridge. which lets bateleur legend kill the ulamog until he drops emrakul.
WhammWhamme : tie. the foil and chalice wars are nice, but chalice will only give WW one extra turn. It'll legend-rule foil-foil to a tie at 10 life v 20 life.
jcsuperstar : win. His island lets him play Ulamog when he's at 2 life. Ulamog-kill factory gives him the turns he needs. He can then Ulamog-kill karakas, and finally nethervoid for the win.
ced395 : loss. He can foil Dreadnaught, but then he'll try again next turn before he has foil back. He can't save foil for Trickbind 'cause of split second.
Feyd_Ruin : loss. Angel beats through, even after a foil-turn, before he can Ulamog.
hinotama : loss. Angel beats as well.
~Tilde~ : loss. Foil lotus/sneak. He redraws and can retry, then Sneaks away for the win.
Mogg : tie. Mogg's Ulamog hits 3 turns sooner (lotus), but he can foil it (not ditching Ulamog) and then legend rule a tie.
No longer staff here.
That's a bit optimistic!
I hide behind my bridges until I reach a 15 mana discount and can cast Emrakul for free. I then cast Ulamog and Emrakul (in that order) in the same turn. From that point on you have no way to remove Ulamog, which hits you for 10 damage per turn every turn. Every time it does, you sac you entire board and it takes you a minimum of two draw steps to be in a position to Sneak in another creature. By that point you can hardcast Emrakul and therefore get an occasional extra turn, but I can do that too, so ultimately I'm dealing damage faster than you gain life by a considerable margin. Eventually you die.
Edit: Feyd_Ruin has spotted that I cannot in fact use Workshop mana to cast Ulamog, which may affect some of my other matches. I don't have time to check them now, but will do so tomorrow sometime.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Just me vs you:
When you are on the play, the first time you play SA, I foil, leaving Coretapper and Chalice in hand.
I do nothing turn one
You do nothing. (SA costs 3)
I play Coretapper turn two for 0 mana
You do nothing. (SA costs 2)
I play Chalice for one (discount of 3 mana) and add three counters with Coretapper (tap and sacrifice).
Seven turns later I play Ulamog (popping the Mountain) and beat you to death.
It actually only affects one match: JCsuperstar.
(who goes first doesn't matter, since he doesn't use the free mana, and either way you don't start getting boosted until after his turns. Whether or not you get bridge out before his Void doesn't matter either, since Factory's a 2/2.)
j: [leyline] Lotus, Factory, Void
b: Workshop (1 free)
j: Karakas, Attack (B@18)
b: (2 free mana)
j: Attack; B@16
b: (3 free mana)
j: Attack; B@14
b: (4 free mana)
j: Attack; B@12
b: (5 free mana)
j: Attack; B@10
b: (6 free mana)
j: Attack; B@8
b: (7 free mana)
j: Attack; B@6
b: (8 free mana)
j: Attack; B@4
b: (9 free mana)
j: Attack; B@2
b: (10 free mana)
j: Attack; B@0-dead
..ulamog comeback if you were alive
Bat's right. His Ulamog beats you down. You actually never go on the offensive.
He 6-0s.
Mountain->Lotus->Sneak
Workshop->Bridge.
~Tilde~ Cycles through Wurm & Em to gain 7 life every 3 turns.
2: Sneak Em. Shuffle. [Random rules: you'll draw Em first]
3: Draw Em.
4: Draw Wurm. Sneak Wurm.
5: Sneak Em. Shuffle.
6: Draw Em
etc...
On turn 15, he should be at 55.
Lotus will have returned to hand, and kept so he draws the others faster.
skip to turn 15...
B: Ulamog (Kill bridge) and Emrakul (extra turn).
B: (Attack step) T sneaks in his Emrakul. Legend rule kills.
Ulamog attacks. T @ 45, wiped board.
[shuffles will make sure you both draw least beneficial first]
T's Library: Mountain, Sneak, Emrakul
B's Library: Bridge, Emrakul
T: Draw Mountain. Lotus -> Wurm. (52)
B: Draw Bridge. Does NOT attack.
(If he does, wurm sac to draw sneak. then he'd draw emrakul to come back)
T: Draw sneak attack.
B: Draw Emrakul. Swing to 42. Emrakul.
B: Extra turn. Swing to 17.
T: Emrakul to Legend-rule-kill.
T: Extra turn, draw Lotus.
B: Draw Emrakul. Umalog swing to 7. Emrakul.
B: Extra turn. Swing for win.
You're right.
WhammWhamme is (3-3)
This format, it's better to go 2nd. On the draw you win.
Play w/ early chalice:
W: Chalice for 0.
T: Mountain (+1)
W: -
T: (+2)
W: Coretapper
T: Sneak Attack (Foiled)
W: Tap core for counter 1. (can sac to get it up to 3)
T: Sneak Attack.
Play with late chalice:
W: -
T: Mountain, Lotus, Sneak (Foil)
W: Draw Ulamog.
T: -
W: Coretapper, Chalice for 1. (can sac to get it up to 3)
T: Sneak Attack.
On the Draw (WW wins):
T: Mountain, Lotus -> Sneak (Foiled)
W: Draw Ulamog.
T: Draw countered Sneak. (1 mana free)
W: Draw Island. Chalice for 1, Coretapper.
T: (2 Mana free.)
W: Tap coretapper for counter 2. Sac coretapper for counters 3 & 4.
T: Chalice @ 4, so no sneak.
His ulamog then comes down and hits you twice before you can Emrakul.
You're right. he can't animate factory because then he won't be able to bounce emrakul, which means he'll have his board wiped. At turn 15, you drop Emrakul hardcasted (void proof). Take an extra turn. He can bounce either turn, but then you recast for another extra before he untaps. Swing to wipe his board.
Correct on your draw, but on your play, Ced delays you, and then get's naught out before you can sneak.
T: Lotus, Mountain, Sneak [Foiled]
C: Draw Em.
T: (1 free mana)
C: Draw Island. Island, Dreadnaught, Trickbind for a 12/12.
T: (2 Free Mana)
C: Swing. T@8
T: (3 Free) Sneak Attack. No more to sneak out.
C: Swing for the win.
On the play
C: -
T: Lotus, Mountain, Sneak [Foiled]
C: Draw Em.
T: (2 free mana)
C: Draw Island. Island, Dreadnaught, Trickbind for a 12/12.
T: Sneak Attack (No more :symr:)
C: Swing. T@8
T: Sneak in Em to wipe board.
C: -
T: Wurm for win.
No longer staff here.
OK.. yeah.. you can pull out a win that way... but GOLLY IT'S COMPLICATED!
By the time you reach the 15 mana discount I'd be at 55 life with Black Lotus, Pellaka Wurm and Emmy in hand and Mountain (untapped) and Sneak Attack on the board. You cast Ulamog (blowing up Sneak Attack) then cast Emmy. I do NOTHING in response. Your bonus turn, you can attack for 25 and kill the Mountain. I then free play Emmy (both Emmys die and shuffle back in, my library is Mountain, Sneak Attack, Emrakul, you have a Bridge, then Emrakul), play Black Lotus and sac for Green and play Pelakka Wurm (37 life) My bonus turn, I attack with the Wurm, putting you at 13 life.
Your next turn, you draw a Bridge. Now you can attack for 10 and kill my Wurm (but that let's me draw) so you just do nothing. You can't play a Bridge because you have no method of getting rid of it. My next turn I draw Sneak Attack, then attack for 7, you can't block because then I draw Emrakul and free play it on my second main phase, then swing for 15 on my extra turn. Then your next turn you draw Emmy and play it, then attack for 10 (kills my Wurm, I draw Emmy) Your bonus turn, you can swing for 25 (2 life!) My next turn, I free play Emmy (both die and shuffle in, but my graveyard is Lotus, PW and Emmy) then I draw Lotus on my bonus turn (PW and Emmy in library, Mountain and SA in hand)
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Yeah, that's... more complex than I thought it was!
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
but but.. sneaking in an Emrakul to kill his is more timmy!
(he can't blow up sneak attack if he wants to attack)
No longer staff here.
I believe that you're correct in everything other than your font choice!
Modern UW Taking Turns
On turn 15, he should be at 55.
Lotus will have returned to hand, and kept so he draws the others faster.
skip to turn 15...
T: In play - Untapped Mountain and Sneak Attack
In hand - Lotus, PW and Emmy
B: In play - Workshop, Bridge
In hand - Ulamog, Emmy and Bridge
B: Ulamog (Kill bridge) and Emrakul (extra turn). I sneak Emmy in before Bat's attack with Ulamog so that Emmy shuffles to my library top. (Bat's library is now Bridge, Emmy)
B: (Attack step) Ulamog attacks. T @ 45, wiped board.
B's Library: Bridge, Emrakul
T: Draw, then freeplay Emrakul, Lotus -> Wurm. (52)
Swing for 22 on my extra turn.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Actually, I think we're overcomplicating this massively.
You only need to go above 25 life and then sit there with Emrakul in hand. Every time I remove my bridge I can do at most 25 damage to you before you get a turn. When you get a turn you play Emrakul (it dies), getting an extra turn, then on your extra turn you play Emrakul again, getting another extra turn, then you attack me, making me sac both my Eldrazi and dealing 15. I draw Ulamog (because it's worse for me) and use it to kill your Emrakul, but on your turn you just recast it again and kill me. (Or if I don't kill it, you just attack and kill me.)
Turns out you are the Timmiest after all - lifegain FTW! (How awesome is this match? :D)
Well OK, it's really a draw rather than a win. Still awesome!
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
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<Limited Clan>
1) bateleur - Ensnaring Bridge, Ensnaring Bridge, Mishra's Workshop, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
vs.
3) jcsuperstar - Black Lotus / Nether Void / Leyline of Singularity / Karakas / Mishra's Factory
Listed as: 6-0
Should be: 3-3
Factory is that fast. Shop can't pay for Ulamog.
2) WhammWhamme - Chalice of the Void / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre / Foil / Island / Coretapper
vs.
4) ced395 - Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Foil, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Snow-Covered Island, Trickbind
Listed as: 6-0
Should be: 3-3
WW on the play Foils Dreadnought, but can't immediately play Chalice for X=1. ced395 replays Dreadnought and wins.
2) WhammWhamme - Chalice of the Void / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre / Foil / Island / Coretapper
vs.
7) hinotama - Chalice of the Void / Black Lotus / Mishra's Workshop / Platinum Angel / Leveler
Listed as: 6-0
Should be: 0-6
hinotama is fast. It really doesn't matter which of his threats WW counters.
3) jcsuperstar - Black Lotus / Nether Void / Leyline of Singularity / Karakas / Mishra's Factory
vs.
7) hinotama - Chalice of the Void / Black Lotus / Mishra's Workshop / Platinum Angel / Leveler
Listed as: 0-6
Should be: 3-3
Shop into Lotus into threat allows hinotama to resolve one attacker. This gets bounced. Shop can't pay for Nether Void. Chalice wins, though.
4) ced395 - Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Foil, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Snow-Covered Island, Trickbind
vs.
8) ~Tilde~ - Black Lotus / Emrakul, the Aeons Torn / Mountain / Pellaka Wurm / Sneak Attack
Listed as: 6-0
Should be: 0-6
Foil is saved for Sneak Attack. Lotus revolves, and Emrakul resolves before ced395 does anything relevant.
Correction to Feyd_Ruin's bmh rematches:
6) bmh - Ancestral Recall / Flash / Foil / Island / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
vs.
9) Mogg - Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Channel / Mindbreak Trap / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Listed as: 2-2
Should be: 0-6
I Channel into Ulamog with protection from Foil via Mindbreak Trap (off Lotus). I swing once before bmh Flashes Ulamog and legend rules. I get everything back and replay Ulamog with protection from Flash/Ulamog.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Actually the aspect I missed here is that he can't draw the Island because the shuffling rules cause him to draw something unhelpful first.
Otherwise he could indeed play Chalice for X=1.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
But he won't draw it because his other stuff is in the graveyard, and randomness and stuff...
And here I was saying I was going to make some insane deck to toy with your head.
I was searching and searching to make a Chronatog deck, but couldn't find anything I liked terribly. I waited until the last minute to submit my deck in hopes I could find something.
The best I came up with was Tog + Embargo-Donate. Two Loti version died to foil/mindbreak, and Lotus-Island seemed too slow.
In retrospect, I wish I'd have gone with the island version for the fun of it. It wouldn't have done as well, but it'd have made me smile
Yep. I missed that he can't foil your hardcast Mindbreak on his flash the 2nd go around, because his island is in play.
No longer staff here.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
I mean at the begging of your upkeep lotus, channel, Emrakul. Not unbeatable but very hard to beat without having the leyline
something like
leyline of anticipation, black lotus, Chalice of the Void, Blood Moon, Leonin Squire seems hard to beat without foil or your own leyline of anticipation
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
It will literally be foil vs leyline (vs decks that lose to leyline)
Also, I and ced395 are tied for PotM June!
(These results assume ~Tilde~ and I draw our match. Even if I actually win I cannot catch Feyd_Ruin's score. Since I'm already winning PotM I can't be bothered to think any more about this match. It's obvious ~Tilde~ can't win it, which is all we need to know! Also, if anyone does reprocess it and get a different result, ced395 might punch you. ;))
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>