Some really creative decks this time! And good turnout. People seem to like backbuild!
One of the (many) things that have been eating my time (most of the others far more significantly has been participating in the TWIFcomp. If you are somehow in the tiny minority of people in the world that might find it amusing, you should check it out and vote for your favorites. My entry is entitled 'Travel' and can be found on the second page.
Rules:
0. Overview
Two Card Blind (2CB) is a Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit two-card decks which are played against each other by the moderator. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules for games between two players.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly two cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces a result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
1.5 Whenever a player could play a Land card, that player may put a Basic Land card from outside the game onto the battlefield. (Basic Snow Lands are Basic.)
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 2CB moderator (Personman).
2.1a. The moderator informs players of mistakes in a timely manner. (Sometimes. Often I run kinda late. Be careful.)
2.1b. A player may submit multiple decks, but only the most recent as of the deadline is counted.
2.1c. If a player's final deck is illegal, their most recent legal deck is used. If no legal deck has been submitted, they do not participate.
2.2. A player may not submit a deck that can, against any deck, win the game or force one or more cards in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's first turn, or force a specific card in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn. (Note that forcing your opponent to discard two cards is very likely to force a specific card their hand to change zones.)
2.3. A deck may include any number of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1).
2.4. Each player plays one match, consisting of two games, against each other player. Each player is the starting player once per match. Results assume optimal play and perfect information.
2.4a. If an effect causes the players to make simultaneous decisions for which perfect play is not deterministic, players make decisions that least benefit the owner of the effect.
2.4b. If no player can win, the game is a draw.
2.4c. A player that can't win or draw plays to extend the game.
2.5. Points determine tournament standings. Players are ranked, first to last, in order of decreasing number of points.
2.5a. For each match, a player earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. Matches in which each player wins one game and loses one game are worth only 2 points per player, rather than 3.
2.5b. A table of match results is posted each round. Its rows represent players and its columns represent opponents. Match results reflect the combined result of both games played in a match. A player's total points are listed at the end of his or her row.
3. Banned List
3.1 The following cards are banned. Any deck that includes a card on this list is illegal.
* Fastbond
* Meddling Mage
* Arcane Denial
* Figure of Destiny
* Nezumi Shortfang
* The Rack
* Black Lotus
There has been a small rules update - 2.4a has been added (and 2.4b and c renumbered from a and b) to cover Goblin Game, and 1.1 has been updated to specify that games are between two players. This was mostly because I used the word 'both' in 2.4a, but while adding it it had the additional effect of causing me to become completely terrified by the thought of scoring a round of three-player 2CB. *shudder*
POTM:
Each month, the player with the highest combined score from the four rounds that month is designated Player of the Month. Here are the previous winners, in reverse chronological order:
Next week is backbuild again: before each round, switch decks with your opponent. To be legal, a deck must be capable of 6-0'ing any deck consisting only of 2 basic lands.
The deadline will once again be Thursday, at 11:59PM EST. I'll try to get things back on schedule for next week, but I'm not that optimistic. But there are at most like, 3 more weeks of this, and then finals is over and it's summer! When I will be working full time. But still, things should get better.
I'm going to repost my results from the previous thread here for your convenience PersonMan. I think these are right:
I'm almost done with finals! That means I can waste time with Backbuild results!
vs Personman - 6-0: If you get one damage in edgewise you "win", which is easy for you to do.
vs MutantMan - 2-2: So, you going to play anything? No? Well, I won't be playing anything...
vs bmh - 6-0: 14 turns is not slow enough to start smashing in my face.
vs Thundersnow - 6-0: Bazaar Trader can just attack for damage, I guess...
vs Deaths_Vampire - 3-3: Interesting Pseudo Mirror Match...
vs Niv - 6-0: Sustaining Spirit sustains (ha) your life, so if you just have it out for even one turn I'm dead.
vs Tails2K - 0-6: Oh Goddammit.
vs Dethwing - 0-6: clever girl...
vs OneMoreTime - 6-0: Punch me in the face, fail to untap, let me ping myself to death. If I don't play the tablet, then its like playing the test deck.
vs Naphtali - 0-6: Seriously Darksteel Reactor is not the slowest nor the most easily disruptable "win" con.
vs Error1 - 4-1: On the play we draw, on the draw I "lose". I think. Someone double check this, it might be a 2-2.
vs tomsloger - 6-0: Can you get one damage in by turn 15? Yes? Congrats you "win"!
vs Xyre - 6-0: Blazingly fast.
vs ~Tilde~ - 6-0: Life gain is not very strong in this format methinks. If I play tablet, you gain life and "win" the race. If i don't, you gain life and get enduranced.
vs FuriouslySleepingIdea - 2-2: Matchup was calculated at last backbuild.
vs jcSuperstar & VikingMetal4L - 0-6 PotM elucidated the wonders of APNAP to me and why Near-Death Experience is actually really "good" instead of really "bad" like I originally thought.
Totalling at about 58 points right now?
I already sent you my tech for next week, correct?
EDIT: Correction for my match with Xyre - If I play copper tablet on turn 4 I "win" the match,since I'll be at 12 life that turn. On the upkeep of turn five, I first lose one life to copper tablet, then two life to sleeper agent, dodging the rite; whether I'm on the play or draw doesn't matter. I believe it's 0-6.
ill follow domogrue again. ibelieve these are my results.
personman is 5 turns slower. 0-6
mutantman kills 1 turn before i can cast a spell. 6-0
domogrue nice. 0-6
bmh 2/2 flier turn 16 is greater than pinger on t15. 6-0
thundersnow stupid megaliths, hitting creatures and players. 0-6
deathsvampire doesnt beat the test deck i believe, nor does he beat me.
niv you are technically slower, but i cant beat you. 6-0
tails turn 24 is quick. 6-0
onemoretime turn 10 is quicker. 6-0
dethwing nice! 0-6
viking fine. when i take your deck, i never play dawn of the dead, but you can take me to 1 after upkeep and kill me on your turn. 0-6
naphtali see tails. 6-0
error1 more use of the stack than any other backbuild. 6-0 though.
xyre yeah thats turn 5... 6-0
tilde long game. he build up goat tokens til 1 life, then sacs 30 to go to 31. unfortunately, pasture cant make a goat and sacrifice a goat on the same turn. succumbs on turn 605 if im not mistaken. 0-6
furiouslysleepingidea while way faster, also disruptable. 0-6
jcsuperstar. draw. when his deck is at 2, noone ever does something ever again. 2-2
i count 48. my match with tilde is the worst thing ive ever seen.
edit: fixed match with viking. new point total is 46.
(Cold Snap + Donate) 0-6 (nice, by my calculation that's a turn 41 goldfish)
(Opalescence + Standstill) 2-2 (If Standstill is cast before Reactor, Standstill loses. If Reactor is cast before Standstill, reactor loses... so we stare at each other forever)
(Copper Tablet + Forest) 6-0 (Doesn't Tablet Goldfish on opponent's upkeep of turn 22-23... and Reactor doesn't win until upkeep of turn 25?)
(Blinkmoth Infusion + Skyshroud Condor) 0-6 (Condor wins combat phase of turn 27, making reactor too fast)
(Bazaar Trader + Gilded Drake) 6-0 (Trader wins turn 23, Drake never gets cast)
(Sustaining Spirit + Cocoon) 0-6 (very nice)
(Mirror) 3-3
(Keldon Megaliths + Nefarious Lich) 0-6 (Reactor is 1 turn too fast)
(Phyrexian Colossus + Forest) 6-0 (Colossus wins turn 10)
(Near-Death Experience + Dawn of the Dead) 0-6 (Reactor is slightly quicker)
(Flailing Soldier + Manabarbs) 3-3 (I think...)
(Keldon Megaliths + Blinkmoth Infusion) 0-6 (Reactor is faster)
(Sleeper Agent + Hidetsugu's Second Rite) 6-0 (Agent is much faster)
(Springjack Pasture + Test of Endurance) 0-6 (That's a nice and slow win-con right there)
(Forbidden Orchard + Soul Bleed) 6-0 (Orchard/Bleed wins the turn before reactor)
(City of Brass + Near-Death Experience) 3-3 (Both decks win in the upkeep of turn 25 on the play)
My results:
Vs: Cold Snap/Donate - Not sure how this even beats the test deck, since both players can choose not to play snow lands.
Vs: Opalescence/Standstill - Even with ideal play a 2/2 Standstill loses to a 4/4 ToE (0-6)
Vs: Copper Tablet - Pretty obvious (0-6)
Vs: Blinkmoth Infusion/Skyshroud Condor - Condor comes out on turn 16 and starts chipping away at life (6-0)
Vs: Gilded Drake/Bazaar Trader- double draws (2-2)
Vs: Sustaining Spirit/Cocoon - This deck is even slower than mine (0-6)
Vs: Darksteel Reactor decks - but Reactor is faster... (6-0)
Vs: Keldon Megaliths decks - They are VERY long games, but Megaliths can ping every turn, while occasionally my deck has to stop to gain life. (over 20 turns, KM can ping 20 times, while my deck makes and sacrifices up to 19 goat tokens for 19 life) (6-0)
Vs: Px Colossus - Pretty obvious (0-6)
Vs: Near-Death Experience decks - (6-0)
Vs: Flailing Soldier/Manabarbs - (6-0)
Vs: Sleeper Agent/HSR - My deck can dodge the Rite (0-6)
vs: Forbidden Orchard/Soul Bleed - The Orchard token beats me to death (0-6)
I count - ?/0/0/0/6/2/0/6/6/0/6/6/6/6/0/-/0/6 (50 points total)
My results:
Vs: Cold Snap/Donate - Not sure how this even beats the test deck, since both players can choose not to play snow lands.
Vs: Opalescence/Standstill - Even with ideal play a 2/2 Standstill loses to a 4/4 ToE (0-6)
Vs: Copper Tablet - Pretty obvious (0-6)
Vs: Blinkmoth Infusion/Skyshroud Condor - Condor comes out on turn 16 and starts chipping away at life (6-0)
Vs: Gilded Drake/Bazaar Trader- double draws (2-2)
Vs: Sustaining Spirit/Cocoon - This deck is even slower than mine (0-6)
Vs: Darksteel Reactor decks - but Reactor is faster... (6-0)
Vs: Keldon Megaliths decks - They are VERY long games, but Megaliths can ping every turn, while occasionally my deck has to stop to gain life. (over 20 turns, KM can ping 20 times, while my deck makes and sacrifices up to 19 goat tokens for 19 life) (6-0)
Vs: Px Colossus - Pretty obvious (0-6)
Vs: Near-Death Experience decks - (6-0)
Vs: Flailing Soldier/Manabarbs - (6-0)
Vs: Sleeper Agent/HSR - My deck can dodge the Rite (0-6)
vs: Forbidden Orchard/Soul Bleed - The Orchard token beats me to death (0-6)
I count - ?/0/0/0/6/2/0/6/6/0/6/6/6/6/0/-/0/6 (50 points total)
pilot of the cold snap deck plays and donates a single snow land. plays the enchantment turn 21 with 20 land in play so he can pay the upkeep. victory on the upkeep after the 41st turn! genius deck actually.
and against sleeper agent your deck can only dodge the rite on the play. on the draw, it just chumps with goats. same difference though.
pilot of the cold snap deck plays and donates a single snow land. plays the enchantment turn 21 with 20 land in play so he can pay the upkeep. victory on the upkeep after the 41st turn! genius deck actually.
Ah, I realized that after thinking about it for a bit. Still, my deck's life gain effect pretty well neutralizes the Cold Snap's wincon. I go 0-6 against it. (still get 50 points though, not too bad.)
Edit: Recalcuated vs. the Sleeper Agent deck. Sleeper Agent knocks him to 10 life before he can make and sacrifice a goat token when I'm on the play. If I'm on the draw, then he has a goat on the board in time to gain 1 life and dodge the Rite. (2-2) (52 points! Yay!)
As long as you can gain 1 life before turn 20, I die to spirit token beats before soul bleed finishes you off.
My results
Forbidden Orchard & soul bleed vs
Personman (0-6) His clock is slow, but I can't win. If I soul bleed the token, he donates the token to me for victory.
Mutantman (2-2) If either deck plays, the other deck can win.
Domogrue (2-2) If either deck plays, the other deck can win (just play the wincon when the other deck has knocked itself to 2.
bmh (0-6) A turn 16 skyshroud condor is too fast of a threat.
Thundersnow (1-4) Because I can soul bleed his trader, neither of us can make a profitable first play if I'm on the play. However, with him on the play, he can outrace me by playing a turrn 2 bazar trader to beat with.
Niv (2-2) Can win by cocooning the token if I give it to him. But looses if he plays the spirit & I soul bleed it.
Tails (6-0) My deck is faster.
dethwing (0-6) Nefarious Lich doesn't help when soul bleed causes loss of life, not damage).
Onemoretime (0-6) Colossus is just too good.
VikingMetal (6-0) Sadly, near death's trigger never resolves. When it finally triggers soul bleed kills him with it on the stack.
Naphtali (6-0) See tails
Error1 (0-6) Flailing soldier wins.
Tomslogger (0-6) My wincon is too disruptable
Xyre (2-2) If he plays first, I can avoid going exactly to 10 by soul bleeding my agent when I'm at 12. If I play first he can rite me by not playing the agent.
Tilde (0-6) Can gain life to disrupt my plan.
JCsuperstar (2-2) If either of us plays, the other wins. (see vs vikingmetal for detail)
on the play the trader gets a damage in before getting enchanted then gives himself to you when you soul bleed. then he goes back and forth a lot until you die so 1-4
Remember this is backbuild FSI. I'm the one giving you the spirit tokens.
Huh? My deck looses to yours. If it ever gives you the orchard token, then your deck gains 1 life and wins. I don't know if its a communication error, but your deck beats mine.
Ok, results are finally done! Thanks to bmh and psyl4mne for helping. Also, if the comments seem a little schizophrenic, it's because all three of us wrote them.
Deaths_Vampire, I did, but it was illegal, as it does not beat the test deck - Antagonism deals 2 to you first, since you have no way of dealing damage to them on the turn you play it.
I haven't read everything in this thread yet, so I don't know if we disagree on stuff.
EDITS:
tomsloger, you don't tie jcsuperstar. You can ping him on all his upkeeps, and on the upkeep that Near-Death triggers, you ping in response.
Sorry to be a pain, but I'm having trouble reading the grid.
Down the left you have the numbers:1,2,3,3,5,7,5,13,8,9,911,11,1316,17,15
Across the top you have: 1,2,3,4,6,7,5,3,8,9,0,1,2,4,6,7,5
If the Reactor decks correspond to 9 and 0 across the top, why do they have different results against domogrue and niv?
If I'm right that decks 9 and 0 are the Reactor decks I'm confused as to how Copper Tablet wins slower than Darksteel Reactor. Doesn't Copper Tablet win in the opponent's upkeep of turn 22 (on the play) or 23 (on the draw)? Reactor can't win until upkeep of turn 25.
Similarly I don't understand the Standstill vs Reactor result. Whoever casts their threat first (Standstill or Reactor) loses, so I score it 2-2.
Sorry to be a pain, but I'm having trouble reading the grid.
Down the left you have the numbers:1,2,3,3,5,7,5,13,8,9,911,11,1316,17,15
Across the top you have: 1,2,3,4,6,7,5,3,8,9,0,1,2,4,6,7,5
If the Reactor decks correspond to 9 and 0 across the top, why do they have different results against domogrue and niv?
If I'm right that decks 9 and 0 are the Reactor decks I'm confused as to how Copper Tablet wins slower than Darksteel Reactor. Doesn't Copper Tablet win in the opponent's upkeep of turn 22 (on the play) or 23 (on the draw)? Reactor can't win until upkeep of turn 25.
Similarly I don't understand the Standstill vs Reactor result. Whoever casts their threat first (Standstill or Reactor) loses, so I score it 2-2.
Agreed with this. Land-Reactor vs Standstill should be a draw each time as optimal play from both players is to simply not play their threats. Reactor can never play its threat without standstill coming down for the win and vice versa.
So it should be 2-2.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
A bunch of the Standstill matches were wrong. It turns out it didn't win, and was actually 5th. Whoops! I'm not sure what you mean by alignment issues, though I'll go take another glance and make sure things look sane.
Anyway, I should be 6-0 against Cold Snap. The Cold Snap deck can hold Donate in its hand as long as it wants to keep the Opalescence deck from casting its Standstill. Once it has lots of mana for cumulative upkeep, it then casts the Donate and Coldsnap and wins either through one damage a turn or 3/3 Cold Snap beats.
I should also be 6-0 against Nefarious Lich, again with Opalescence turning the Lich into a 4/4.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tA_X7YcXL7yXMcZmBxhOSGA&output=html
Some really creative decks this time! And good turnout. People seem to like backbuild!
One of the (many) things that have been eating my time (most of the others far more significantly has been participating in the TWIFcomp. If you are somehow in the tiny minority of people in the world that might find it amusing, you should check it out and vote for your favorites. My entry is entitled 'Travel' and can be found on the second page.
Rules:
0. Overview
Two Card Blind (2CB) is a Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit two-card decks which are played against each other by the moderator. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules for games between two players.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly two cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces a result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
1.5 Whenever a player could play a Land card, that player may put a Basic Land card from outside the game onto the battlefield. (Basic Snow Lands are Basic.)
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 2CB moderator (Personman).
2.1a. The moderator informs players of mistakes in a timely manner. (Sometimes. Often I run kinda late. Be careful.)
2.1b. A player may submit multiple decks, but only the most recent as of the deadline is counted.
2.1c. If a player's final deck is illegal, their most recent legal deck is used. If no legal deck has been submitted, they do not participate.
2.2. A player may not submit a deck that can, against any deck, win the game or force one or more cards in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's first turn, or force a specific card in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn. (Note that forcing your opponent to discard two cards is very likely to force a specific card their hand to change zones.)
2.3. A deck may include any number of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1).
2.4. Each player plays one match, consisting of two games, against each other player. Each player is the starting player once per match. Results assume optimal play and perfect information.
2.4a. If an effect causes the players to make simultaneous decisions for which perfect play is not deterministic, players make decisions that least benefit the owner of the effect.
2.4b. If no player can win, the game is a draw.
2.4c. A player that can't win or draw plays to extend the game.
2.5. Points determine tournament standings. Players are ranked, first to last, in order of decreasing number of points.
2.5a. For each match, a player earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. Matches in which each player wins one game and loses one game are worth only 2 points per player, rather than 3.
2.5b. A table of match results is posted each round. Its rows represent players and its columns represent opponents. Match results reflect the combined result of both games played in a match. A player's total points are listed at the end of his or her row.
3. Banned List
3.1 The following cards are banned. Any deck that includes a card on this list is illegal.
* Fastbond
* Meddling Mage
* Arcane Denial
* Figure of Destiny
* Nezumi Shortfang
* The Rack
* Black Lotus
There has been a small rules update - 2.4a has been added (and 2.4b and c renumbered from a and b) to cover Goblin Game, and 1.1 has been updated to specify that games are between two players. This was mostly because I used the word 'both' in 2.4a, but while adding it it had the additional effect of causing me to become completely terrified by the thought of scoring a round of three-player 2CB. *shudder*
Each month, the player with the highest combined score from the four rounds that month is designated Player of the Month. Here are the previous winners, in reverse chronological order:
POTM 8: VikingMetal4L
POTM 7: VikingMetal4L
POTM 6: VikingMetal4L
POTM 5: Tails2k5
POTM 4: VikingMetal4L
POTM 3: VikingMetal4L
POTM 2: VikingMetal4L
POTM 1: DragonDart
Next week is backbuild again: before each round, switch decks with your opponent. To be legal, a deck must be capable of 6-0'ing any deck consisting only of 2 basic lands.
The deadline will once again be Thursday, at 11:59PM EST. I'll try to get things back on schedule for next week, but I'm not that optimistic. But there are at most like, 3 more weeks of this, and then finals is over and it's summer! When I will be working full time. But still, things should get better.
I already sent you my tech for next week, correct?
EDIT: Correction for my match with Xyre - If I play copper tablet on turn 4 I "win" the match,since I'll be at 12 life that turn. On the upkeep of turn five, I first lose one life to copper tablet, then two life to sleeper agent, dodging the rite; whether I'm on the play or draw doesn't matter. I believe it's 0-6.
Fattycakes Zombie of Clan Limited
personman is 5 turns slower. 0-6
mutantman kills 1 turn before i can cast a spell. 6-0
domogrue nice. 0-6
bmh 2/2 flier turn 16 is greater than pinger on t15. 6-0
thundersnow stupid megaliths, hitting creatures and players. 0-6
deathsvampire doesnt beat the test deck i believe, nor does he beat me.
niv you are technically slower, but i cant beat you. 6-0
tails turn 24 is quick. 6-0
onemoretime turn 10 is quicker. 6-0
dethwing nice! 0-6
viking fine. when i take your deck, i never play dawn of the dead, but you can take me to 1 after upkeep and kill me on your turn. 0-6
naphtali see tails. 6-0
error1 more use of the stack than any other backbuild. 6-0 though.
xyre yeah thats turn 5... 6-0
tilde long game. he build up goat tokens til 1 life, then sacs 30 to go to 31. unfortunately, pasture cant make a goat and sacrifice a goat on the same turn. succumbs on turn 605 if im not mistaken. 0-6
furiouslysleepingidea while way faster, also disruptable. 0-6
jcsuperstar. draw. when his deck is at 2, noone ever does something ever again. 2-2
i count 48. my match with tilde is the worst thing ive ever seen.
edit: fixed match with viking. new point total is 46.
edit2: er wait, thats 50. i can math.
(Cold Snap + Donate) 0-6 (nice, by my calculation that's a turn 41 goldfish)
(Opalescence + Standstill) 2-2 (If Standstill is cast before Reactor, Standstill loses. If Reactor is cast before Standstill, reactor loses... so we stare at each other forever)
(Copper Tablet + Forest) 6-0 (Doesn't Tablet Goldfish on opponent's upkeep of turn 22-23... and Reactor doesn't win until upkeep of turn 25?)
(Blinkmoth Infusion + Skyshroud Condor) 0-6 (Condor wins combat phase of turn 27, making reactor too fast)
(Bazaar Trader + Gilded Drake) 6-0 (Trader wins turn 23, Drake never gets cast)
(Sustaining Spirit + Cocoon) 0-6 (very nice)
(Mirror) 3-3
(Keldon Megaliths + Nefarious Lich) 0-6 (Reactor is 1 turn too fast)
(Phyrexian Colossus + Forest) 6-0 (Colossus wins turn 10)
(Near-Death Experience + Dawn of the Dead) 0-6 (Reactor is slightly quicker)
(Flailing Soldier + Manabarbs) 3-3 (I think...)
(Keldon Megaliths + Blinkmoth Infusion) 0-6 (Reactor is faster)
(Sleeper Agent + Hidetsugu's Second Rite) 6-0 (Agent is much faster)
(Springjack Pasture + Test of Endurance) 0-6 (That's a nice and slow win-con right there)
(Forbidden Orchard + Soul Bleed) 6-0 (Orchard/Bleed wins the turn before reactor)
(City of Brass + Near-Death Experience) 3-3 (Both decks win in the upkeep of turn 25 on the play)
Vs: Cold Snap/Donate - Not sure how this even beats the test deck, since both players can choose not to play snow lands.
Vs: Opalescence/Standstill - Even with ideal play a 2/2 Standstill loses to a 4/4 ToE (0-6)
Vs: Copper Tablet - Pretty obvious (0-6)
Vs: Blinkmoth Infusion/Skyshroud Condor - Condor comes out on turn 16 and starts chipping away at life (6-0)
Vs: Gilded Drake/Bazaar Trader- double draws (2-2)
Vs: Sustaining Spirit/Cocoon - This deck is even slower than mine (0-6)
Vs: Darksteel Reactor decks - but Reactor is faster... (6-0)
Vs: Keldon Megaliths decks - They are VERY long games, but Megaliths can ping every turn, while occasionally my deck has to stop to gain life. (over 20 turns, KM can ping 20 times, while my deck makes and sacrifices up to 19 goat tokens for 19 life) (6-0)
Vs: Px Colossus - Pretty obvious (0-6)
Vs: Near-Death Experience decks - (6-0)
Vs: Flailing Soldier/Manabarbs - (6-0)
Vs: Sleeper Agent/HSR - My deck can dodge the Rite (0-6)
vs: Forbidden Orchard/Soul Bleed - The Orchard token beats me to death (0-6)
I count - ?/0/0/0/6/2/0/6/6/0/6/6/6/6/0/-/0/6 (50 points total)
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
pilot of the cold snap deck plays and donates a single snow land. plays the enchantment turn 21 with 20 land in play so he can pay the upkeep. victory on the upkeep after the 41st turn! genius deck actually.
and against sleeper agent your deck can only dodge the rite on the play. on the draw, it just chumps with goats. same difference though.
Ah, I realized that after thinking about it for a bit. Still, my deck's life gain effect pretty well neutralizes the Cold Snap's wincon. I go 0-6 against it. (still get 50 points though, not too bad.)
Edit: Recalcuated vs. the Sleeper Agent deck. Sleeper Agent knocks him to 10 life before he can make and sacrifice a goat token when I'm on the play. If I'm on the draw, then he has a goat on the board in time to gain 1 life and dodge the Rite. (2-2) (52 points! Yay!)
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
As long as you can gain 1 life before turn 20, I die to spirit token beats before soul bleed finishes you off.
My results
Forbidden Orchard & soul bleed vs
Personman (0-6) His clock is slow, but I can't win. If I soul bleed the token, he donates the token to me for victory.
Mutantman (2-2) If either deck plays, the other deck can win.
Domogrue (2-2) If either deck plays, the other deck can win (just play the wincon when the other deck has knocked itself to 2.
bmh (0-6) A turn 16 skyshroud condor is too fast of a threat.
Thundersnow (1-4) Because I can soul bleed his trader, neither of us can make a profitable first play if I'm on the play. However, with him on the play, he can outrace me by playing a turrn 2 bazar trader to beat with.
Niv (2-2) Can win by cocooning the token if I give it to him. But looses if he plays the spirit & I soul bleed it.
Tails (6-0) My deck is faster.
dethwing (0-6) Nefarious Lich doesn't help when soul bleed causes loss of life, not damage).
Onemoretime (0-6) Colossus is just too good.
VikingMetal (6-0) Sadly, near death's trigger never resolves. When it finally triggers soul bleed kills him with it on the stack.
Naphtali (6-0) See tails
Error1 (0-6) Flailing soldier wins.
Tomslogger (0-6) My wincon is too disruptable
Xyre (2-2) If he plays first, I can avoid going exactly to 10 by soul bleeding my agent when I'm at 12. If I play first he can rite me by not playing the agent.
Tilde (0-6) Can gain life to disrupt my plan.
JCsuperstar (2-2) If either of us plays, the other wins. (see vs vikingmetal for detail)
Remember this is backbuild FSI. I'm the one giving you the spirit tokens.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Huh? My deck looses to yours. If it ever gives you the orchard token, then your deck gains 1 life and wins. I don't know if its a communication error, but your deck beats mine.
Deaths_Vampire, I did, but it was illegal, as it does not beat the test deck - Antagonism deals 2 to you first, since you have no way of dealing damage to them on the turn you play it.
I haven't read everything in this thread yet, so I don't know if we disagree on stuff.
EDITS:
tomsloger, you don't tie jcsuperstar. You can ping him on all his upkeeps, and on the upkeep that Near-Death triggers, you ping in response.
Down the left you have the numbers:1,2,3,3,5,7,5,13,8,9,911,11,1316,17,15
Across the top you have: 1,2,3,4,6,7,5,3,8,9,0,1,2,4,6,7,5
If the Reactor decks correspond to 9 and 0 across the top, why do they have different results against domogrue and niv?
If I'm right that decks 9 and 0 are the Reactor decks I'm confused as to how Copper Tablet wins slower than Darksteel Reactor. Doesn't Copper Tablet win in the opponent's upkeep of turn 22 (on the play) or 23 (on the draw)? Reactor can't win until upkeep of turn 25.
Similarly I don't understand the Standstill vs Reactor result. Whoever casts their threat first (Standstill or Reactor) loses, so I score it 2-2.
why would i (with his deck) ever put myself at 1 when he has my keldon megaliths? i hit 2 and then the game stops.
No, if you hit 2 then you get pinged twice by Megaliths and die.
Click here for my blog
Click here for my twitter
Agreed with this. Land-Reactor vs Standstill should be a draw each time as optimal play from both players is to simply not play their threats. Reactor can never play its threat without standstill coming down for the win and vice versa.
So it should be 2-2.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Fattycakes Zombie of Clan Limited
Versus Niv's Sustaining Spirit + Cocoon deck, I should be 6-0, not 2/2, as a 1-power creature just beats me.
Versus Thundersnow's Bazaar Trader deck, I should be 6-0, not 0-6, for the same reason.
EDIT: Confirmed, and sheet updated.
Yet another correction: Blinkmoth/Megaliths doesn't beat Standstill, which I remember noticing, but apparently forgot and/or wrote down incorrectly.
EDIT again, @mutantman below: Yep, I forgot Cold Snap was an enchantment... :/
Anyway, I should be 6-0 against Cold Snap. The Cold Snap deck can hold Donate in its hand as long as it wants to keep the Opalescence deck from casting its Standstill. Once it has lots of mana for cumulative upkeep, it then casts the Donate and Coldsnap and wins either through one damage a turn or 3/3 Cold Snap beats.
I should also be 6-0 against Nefarious Lich, again with Opalescence turning the Lich into a 4/4.
I think the rest are fine though.
Click here for my blog
Click here for my twitter