This week, we had a new player, significant innovation and modification of older decks, and a highly diversified metagame. All in all, very good.
Two changes for next week:
First, a special format explained below. Credit for the idea goes to ced395. Credit for implementation goes to ced395 and bateleur. The format is amazing. I won't ramble and dilute that message. Just see it for yourself.
Second, the rules have undergone some slight functional and cosmetic revision. Changes are listed in full following the explanation of the special format.
5 aurorasparrow – Chalice of the Void / Chimeric Idol / Mishra's Workshop / Smokestack / Sol Ring Epochrasite may still have the advantage. There were a few games where you wanted to have two counters for two cycles, but either couldn't or only drew because you lost Idol.
Five Card Blind (5CB) is a weekly Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit five-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules of Magic.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly five cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 5CB moderator.
2.1a. The moderator acknowledges submissions and reports problems in a timely manner.
2.1b. A player may submit multiple decks, but only the most recent is counted.
2.1c. An illegal deck is not counted. The removal of an illegal deck does not affect deck distribution (see Rule 2.5).
2.2. Decks are subject to some restrictions.
2.2a. A player may not submit a deck that can – against any deck – win the game or force more than one card in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn.
For example, Cabal Therapy / Scalding Tongs / Swamp x3 is illegal because an opponent's deck may have duplicates of a card, but Cabal Therapy / Scalding Tongs / Subterranean Hangar x3 is legal because Cabal Therapy can't be played until the third turn.
2.2b. A player may not submit a deck that can't win against any deck.
2.2c. A deck may include any number of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1), with the exception of the following banned cards:
2.3. Each player plays two games (one match) against each other player.
2.3a. Each player is the starting player once per match.
2.3b. If no player can win, the game is a draw.
2.3c. A player that can't win or draw plays to extend the game.
2.3d. Results assume optimal play and perfect information.
2.4. Points determine tournament standings.
2.4a. Players are ranked – first to last – in order of decreasing number of points.
2.4b. For each match, a player earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. However, a player earns only 2 points for a split match (one win, one loss).
2.4c. A table of match results is posted each round. Its rows represent players and its columns represent opponents. Match results reflect the combined result of both games played in a match; 3 is a game win, 1 a drawn game, and 0 a game loss. A player's points are listed at the end of his or her row.
2.5. In rounds of twenty or more players, players are divided randomly into equally-sized heats of n players, where n is the number of players divided by ten (rounded down).
For example, twenty-five players are divided into heats of twelve and thirteen.
2.5a. A player only plays against players in his heat.
2.5b. The top four players of each heat advance to the finals, where they play again (with the same decks).
2.5c. Tiebreakers for heats are as follows: number of matches in which a player wins both games, number of game wins, points scored against higher-scoring decks. If a tie is unresolved, both tied decks advance.
2.6. The player with the most POTM points over the course of a month is the Player of the Month.
2.6a. A month includes all rounds for which decks are due during that month.
2.6b. The top eight players of rounds of less than twenty players and all players in the finals of rounds of twenty or more players earn POTM points according to their rank; The player with the highest score earns 1 POTM point for each player in the finals, and each subsequent player earns one point less than the previous player. Tied players earn equal points but are counted as separate players when calculating the points of other players.
2.6c. Tiebreakers for top eight are as follows: number of matches in which a player wins both games, number of game wins, points scored against higher-scoring decks. If a tie is unresolved, both tied decks are counted.
Some cards (listed in the spoiler below) have been designed for this round. You may use them.
Li'l Demagogue – 2W
Creature – Human Cleric
Shroud
Creatures can't attack you unless their controller pays 1 for each creature he or she controls that's attacking you.
2/2
Stomping Guy - 1RR
Creature – Human Shaman
Haste, protection from lands
Whenever Stomping Guy deals combat damage to a player, tap target land that player controls. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
1/2
Interfere - 2U
Instant
You may exile a card in your hand rather than pay Interfere's mana cost.
Counter target spell. If the spell is countered this way, exile it with a time counter on it instead of putting it into its owner's graveyard. If it doesn't have suspend, it gains suspend.
Fat Mox - 0
Artifact
Creature spells you cast cost up to 2 less to cast.
Pandora's Box - 2
Artifact
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, if that opponent has more life than you, you may put a 0/1 blue Homonculus artifact creature token onto the battlefield.
Dark Shoal
Land
Dark Shoal enters the battlefield with five ice counters on it.
:symtap:: Add 1 to your mana pool.
:symtap:: Remove an ice counter from Dark Shoal.
When Dark Shoal has no ice counters on it, sacrifice it. If you do, put a 3/2 black Avatar creature token into play.
Dried Lake
Land
Dried Lake enters the battlefield tapped.
:symtap:: Add U to your mana pool.
When a player casts a spell, sacrifice Dried Lake. If you do, counter that spell unless its controller pays 2.
Wonderland
Land
:symtap:: Put a storage counter on Wonderland.
:symtap:, Remove X storage counters from Wonderland: Add X mana in any combination of colors to your mana pool.
Rules Changes
Functional changes:
2.1c, 2.2b
General aesthetic changes:
Made indenting consistent for all non-numbered sections (banned list, example for 2.6).
Combined all deck restrictions under one heading (2.2).
Broke some rules into more parts to create simpler headings (2.3 (by adding 2.3a and 2.3d), 2.4 (by adding 2.4a)). This caused some renumbering.
Other changes (for comprehensiveness):
Changed "Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules" to "the rules of Magic". (1.1)
Changed "informs players of mistakes" to "reports problems". (2.1a)
Changed "one match, consisting of two games," to "two games (one match)". (2.3)
Changed commas to dashes for consistency with 2.2a. (2.4a)
Changed "that wins one game and loses the other earns only 2 points" to "earns only 2 points for a split match (one win, one loss)". (2.4b)
Changed "becomes" to "is". (2.6)
Deck Submission Deadline:
Friday, December 25th, 2:00 pm PST.
Submit your deck to Mogg.
Please use this thread to discuss any aspect of 5CB. Also, consider a subscription to 5CB. Subscribed players who have not already submitted a deck receive a reminder PM about two days before deadline. PM Mogg to subscribe.
That is too hilarious: I spent so long looking for the perfect anti-tabernacle card, finally found it... and then there were no tabernacles. And then I won anyway.
@ced395 and bateleur: This format incredible! What a nice Christmas present. You guys are awesome.
@Mogg: I'm happy about no more Libraries of Alexandria. It was a good idea, but kinda messed things up. And made results lists potentially very confusing to newcomers!
I assume "The removal of an illegal deck does not affect deck distribution (see Rule 2.5)." means that n is the number of legal decks submitted? This is what makes sense, but it would be possible to interpret it to mean that n is the the total number of decks, including illegal ones (ie, the removal of an illegal deck doesn't affect deck distribution; decks are still distributed as they were had an illegal deck not been removed.). Perhaps this should be reworded?
Lastly, you made a pretty funny mistake. You added 2.2b ("A player may not submit a deck that can't win against any deck.") in between 2.2a and the example illustrating 2.2a. Which is
Quote from Rules »
For example, Cabal Therapy + Swamp x4 is illegal because an opponent's deck may have duplicates of a card, but Cabal Therapy + Subterranean Hangar x4 is legal because Cabal Therapy can't be played until the third turn.
I assume "The removal of an illegal deck does not affect deck distribution (see Rule 2.5)." means that n is the number of legal decks submitted?
Your interpretation is correct. Below is an example of what I had in mind. I'll think of a way to word it more clearly.
Example: Twenty-one decks are submitted, divided randomly into two heats. After results have been posted, it's found that a deck in the ten-person heat is illegal. We do not now move a deck from the eleven-person heat to restore the balance. Instead, we proceed with the heats as they were before, minus the illegal deck.
Thanks for catching the ordering mistake. It's fixed.
Hm. Maybe I'm being an idiot somehow. But it wasn't just the ordering that I was pointing out, it was the fact that not only was it in the wrong place, it was after the new rule that made it incorrect - Cabal Therapy + Subterranean Hangar x4 should be illegal now, since it can't win.
I think the idea is to prevent you from submitting decks than can always (or almost always) force a draw. It does seem like a deck like that can never do better than tying for the win though, and that only if every other deck also only draws.
One reasonable possibility is that, given the above, we assume that any such deck is a mistake, and treat it as though it were illegal, since (as with Alexandria-fied decks) it would just feed, and perhaps unevenly.
In general, I think we like to operate under the assumption that every submission is an attempt to win. Violating this assumption tends to lead to unpleasantness: first of all, if people just randomly submit a lot of terrible decks that get one or two random wins, the game starts to lose the appeal of being a genuine contest of skill. More sinisterly, games like this are very vulnerable to collusion/multi-account abuse. If I submit a good deck and then a deck that can't win, but which draws to everyone except me, I've just netted myself 4 points. The new rule doesn't really do anything to stop this kind of thing (and I don't think it'll ever be a problem; we're such a small, collaboration-based community that that kind of behavior doesn't make much sense), but it does reinforce the overall 'every submission is an attempt to win' mentality.
One reasonable possibility is that, given the above, we assume that any such deck is a mistake, and treat it as though it were illegal, since (as with Alexandria-fied decks) it would just feed, and perhaps unevenly.
Clearly the submitter was playing around with five land, settled on what looked like a strong, control-oriented build and failed to notice it couldn't beat a goldfish. The trouble is, it will go 0-6 against some other decks, 1-4 against some and 2-2 against others. This will skew the field in a way that we'd rather avoid, with some players picking up random 4pt boosts for essentially no reason.
The old rule in which decks were kept in even if they couldn't win (and illegal decks given Libraries of Alexandria) existed mainly because of the PotM scoring system. Scoring zero for a week put you way out of contention. A string of 2-2 results was a lot better than nothing. Now there's pretty much no way a deck that can't win will score any PotM points at all, so this weirdness can be removed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Hm. Maybe I'm being an idiot somehow. But it wasn't just the ordering that I was pointing out, it was the fact that not only was it in the wrong place, it was after the new rule that made it incorrect - Cabal Therapy + Subterranean Hangar x4 should be illegal now, since it can't win.
I'll admit I didn't get why it was quite so funny. Now I do. I've replaced a land with Scalding Tongs in each deck.
On why decks incapable of winning should be banned, Personman and bateleur have it right:
1. They're counter to the spirit of the competition; namely, that everyone is trying to win.
2. They affect results seemingly at random.
3. It's not a problem to get rid of them now, due to the current scoring system.
It's been tried with 3CB to some success. I raise the same objection as before, though. Specifically, how does the sideboard card significantly change the considerations in deckbuilding, beyond the basic effect of requiring decks to be slightly more resilient? It's a great cog, but (except possibly in 3CB, where an extra card anywhere is relevant) not a full format.
Li'l Demagogue –
Creature – Human Cleric
Shroud
Creatures can't attack you unless their controller pays for each creature he or she controls that's attacking you.
2/2
Certainly nice card against Tokens, if it doesn't get Mesmeric Fiended first. Although Leyline is almost always better.
Stomping Guy -
Creature – Human Shaman
Haste, protection from lands
Whenever Stomping Guy deals combat damage to a player, tap target land that player controls. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
1/2
Obviously made to counter manlands. It doesn't stop Tabernacle, but you should be fine if you run enough lands.
Interfere -
Instant
You may exile a card in your hand rather than pay Interfere's mana cost.
Counter target spell. If the spell is countered this way, exile it with a time counter on it instead of putting it into its owner's graveyard. If it doesn't have suspend, it gains suspend.
Force of Will + Delay. If you've got a combo deck that wins or sets up in one turn, it's the new Pact of Negation. Should see some play.
Fat Mox -
Artifact
Creature spells you cast cost up to less to cast.
Not sure how to use this best, but looks neat.
Pandora's Box -
Artifact
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, if that opponent has more life than you, you may put a 0/1 blue Homonculus artifact creature token onto the battlefield.
Against a slow burn deck (tongs, vise) it doesn't help you win unless you find a way to pump the tokens.
Dark Shoal
Land
Dark Shoal enters the battlefield with five ice counters on it.
: Add to your mana pool.
: Remove an ice counter from Dark Shoal.
When Dark Shoal has no ice counters on it, sacrifice it. If you do, put a 3/2 black Avatar creature token into play.
Dark Depths junior. Only difference is that it produces mana and can free itself faster.
Dried Lake
Land
Dried Lake enters the battlefield tapped.
: Add to your mana pool.
When a player casts a spell, sacrifice Dried Lake. If you do, counter that spell unless its controller pays .
Force Spike attatched to a land. Seems like quite a powerful card in a land deck, but it autotriggers when the first spell is cast so I don't know. I'm sure someone can find a good use for it.
Wonderland
Land
: Put a storage counter on Wonderland.
, Remove X storage counters from Wonderland: Add X mana in any combination of colors to your mana pool.
Super storage land. Obsoletes the original storages, doesn't it?
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
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Two changes for next week:
First, a special format explained below. Credit for the idea goes to ced395. Credit for implementation goes to ced395 and bateleur. The format is amazing. I won't ramble and dilute that message. Just see it for yourself.
Second, the rules have undergone some slight functional and cosmetic revision. Changes are listed in full following the explanation of the special format.
Results
1 jordman – Anurid Scavenger / Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Coercion / Sorin Markov
Sorin benefits from a solid blocker. Good combo.
2 bmh – Anurid Scavenger / City of Traitors / Helix Pinnacle / Time Walk / Tropical Island
Three turns, you're set. Otherwise, a tad vulnerable.
3 bateleur – Aura of Silence / Black Lotus / City of Traitors / Kodama of the North Tree / Soldevi Digger
Always a strong deck, but also tended toward 3-3. A prime demonstration of that rule's effect.
4 Wrath_of_DoG – Black Lotus / Leonin Squire / Leonin Squire / Tidehollow Sculler / Vindicate
While not complex, it's needlessly harder than Lattice to score. Give me an example where this is better than Lattice and I'll retract the needlessness.
5 aurorasparrow – Chalice of the Void / Chimeric Idol / Mishra's Workshop / Smokestack / Sol Ring
Epochrasite may still have the advantage. There were a few games where you wanted to have two counters for two cycles, but either couldn't or only drew because you lost Idol.
6 Masclins – Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Jötun Grunt / Jötun Grunt / Runed Halo
While recursion is a path to resilience, the basic vulnerability of Lotus calls for something a bit pushier.
7 ced395 – City of Traitors / Mox Ruby / Painter's Servant / Pyroblast / Soldevi Digger
Obviously, a good week for it. I'm just amused that three people submitted different Painter builds.
8 WhammWhamme – Anvil of Bogardan / Mishra's Workshop / Nether Spirit / Smokestack / Sol Ring
The most interesting deck this round. Chalice is probably better, but the synergy is impressive nevertheless.
9 Hinotama – Leyline of the Void / Mishra's Factory / Necrotic Sliver / Orzhov Basilica / Pithing Needle
Pithing Needle is a too-narrow answer for a too-narrow threat (Ajani, I'm guessing). The 3CB base of Man-land Vindicate is solid, but slow.
10 bman65 – City of Traitors / Hydroblast / Mox Sapphire / Painter's Servant / Soldevi Digger
See #7.
11 VikingMetal4L – City of Traitors / Mox Ruby / Painter's Servant / Red Elemental Blast / Soldevi Digger
See #7.
12 Personman – Ark of Blight / Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Empty the Warrens / Yawgmoth's Will
For its specific effect, Ark was irrelevant this week. But not bad for Tabernacle or the occasional draw, especially on a proven base.
X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2
1| X 6 1 4 3 2 3 3 2 3 3 3 | 27
2| 0 X 6 0 1 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 | 13
3| 4 0 X 3 3 6 3 6 2 3 3 3 | 30
4| 1 6 3 X 0 6 3 2 0 3 3 3 | 25
5| 3 4 3 6 X 6 3 2 4 3 3 3 | 34
6| 2 0 0 0 0 X 0 0 0 0 0 0 | 2
7| 3 6 3 3 3 6 X 4 6 3 3 3 | 36
8| 3 6 0 2 2 6 1 X 4 1 1 0 | 25
9| 2 6 2 6 1 6 0 1 X 0 0 0 | 24
0| 3 6 3 3 3 6 3 4 6 X 3 3 | 36
1| 3 6 3 3 3 6 3 4 6 3 X 3 | 36
2| 3 6 3 3 3 6 3 6 6 3 3 X | 38
1 Personman (12): 38
2 bman65 (10): 36
2 ced395 (7): 36
2 VikingMetal4L (11): 36
5 aurorasparrow (5): 34
6 bateleur (3): 30
7 jordman (1): 27
8 Wrath_of_DoG (4): 25
8 WhammWhamme (8): 25
Congratulations to Personman for winning 5CB #112.
Player of the Month December
1 ced395: 22
2 bman65: 20
3 bateleur: 12
3 Personman: 12
5 Wrath_of_DoG: 10
6 VikingMetal4L: 8
6 Xyre: 8
7 bmh: 7
9 aurorasparrow: 5
9 jordman: 5
9 loran16: 5
12 Mogg: 4
13 WhammWhamme: 3
14 Madmanquail: 1
0. Overview
Five Card Blind (5CB) is a weekly Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit five-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules of Magic.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly five cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 5CB moderator.
2.2. Decks are subject to some restrictions.
2.3. Each player plays two games (one match) against each other player.
2.4. Points determine tournament standings.
2.5. In rounds of twenty or more players, players are divided randomly into equally-sized heats of n players, where n is the number of players divided by ten (rounded down).
2.6. The player with the most POTM points over the course of a month is the Player of the Month.
Season 1
March 2005
Round 1 r_x, Greebo, zorbop
Round 2 Ankh-Morpokian
Round 3 Greebo
Round 4 Chimpanzee
POTM: Greebo
April 2005
Round 5 help im a bug, Draco9_1_1 (Only Creatures)
Round 6 Greebo (Only Creatures)
Round 7 spuzzem king
Round 8 bateleur
POTM: spuzzem king
May 2005
Round 9 Feyd_Ruin (Only Multicolor)
Round 10 jcsuperstar (Only Multicolor)
Round 11 Lone Warrior
Round 12 Wanderer359
POTM: WhammWhamme
June 2005
Round 13 Silver Seraph, Greebo (Titania's Song)
Round 14 WhammWhamme (Titania's Song)
Round 15 Tahn (Artist Tribute)
Round 16 Lone Warrior (Artist Tribute)
POTM: bateleur, Greebo
July 2005
Round 17 Shadowlord
Round 18 bateleur
Round 19 Shadowlord (Pay 19: Add 1)
Round 20 Greebo (Pay 19: Add 1)
POTM: Shadowlord
August 2005
Round 21 Greebo
Round 22 Greebo
Round 23 spuzzem king (One-Million Life)
Round 24 WhammWhamme (One-Million Life)
POTM: Greebo
September 2005
Round 25 Chimpanzee, Shadowlord
Round 26 dasheiff
Round 27 Chimpanzee (Orrery)
Round 28 Halinn (Orrery)
POTM: jcsuperstar
October 2005
Round 29 Beaker
Round 30 Feuerdrache, Wanderer359
Round 31 r_x (Dream Halls)
Round 32 Puzzle (Dream Halls)
POTM: Chimpanzee
November 2005
Round 33 bateleur
Round 34 Shadowlord
Round 35 jcsuperstar (Backbuild)
Round 36 jcsuperstar (Backbuild)
POTM: bateleur
December 2005
Round 37 bateleur
Round 38 Wanderer359
Round 39 WhammWhamme (Ban a Card)
Round 40 dasheiff, Lone Warrior (Ban a Card)
POTM: Beaker
January 2006
Round 41 Lone Warrior
Round 42 Silver Seraph
Round 43 Trojan (1984)
Round 44 Beaker (1984)
POTM: Lone Warrior
February 2006
Round 45 bateleur
Round 46 Halinn
Round 47 bateleur (7 Life)
Round 48 Chimpanzee (7 Life)
POTM: bateleur
March 2006
Round 49 armlx
Round 50 bateleur
Round 51 armlx (Leyline)
Round 52 Chimpanzee, Greebo (Leyline)
POTM: armlx
April 2006
Round 53 jcsuperstar
Round 54 armlx
Round 55 bateleur (Epic)
Round 56 Xyre (Epic)
POTM: jcsuperstar
May 2006
Round 57 jcsuperstar
Round 58 Pingele_Pats (Banathon)
Round 59 Amadi (Banathon)
Round 60 Solitaire (Banathon)
POTM: Pingele_Pats
June 2006
Round 61 Farik (One-Million Life)
Round 62 Wrath_of_Dog, zu_Faul (Leyline)
Round 63 Beaker (7 Life)
POTM: silicon
July 2006
Round 64 Pingele_Pats (Multi-Set)
Round 65 WhammWhamme, zu_Faul (Extended)
POTM: None
September 2007
Round 1 (Introduction)
Round 2 andelijah
POTM: None
October 2007
Round 3 Mogg
Round 4 Chimpanzee (Lorwyn)
Round 5 Meat Popsicle (Repeat Letters)
Round 6 Mogg (10 Life)
POTM: Mogg
November 2007
Round 7 Death_By_Beebles
Round 8 jcsuperstar (Mindslaver)
Round 9 Mogg (Thanksgiving Special)
Round 10 Mogg (Thanksgiving Special, Part Two)
POTM: Mogg
December 2007
Round 11 carrion pigeons
Round 12 Mogg (Later Alphabet)
Round 13 Mogg (Backbuild)
Round 14 Xyre (Backbuild)
POTM: Mogg
January 2008
Round 15 armlx
Round 16 Chimpanzee (Auras)
Round 17 Mogg (Doubling Season)
Round 18 carrion pigeons, Chimpanzee (Doubling Season)
Round 19 WhammWhamme (31 Bans)
POTM: Mogg
February 2008
Round 20 Chimpanzee
Round 21 Mogg (Combat)
Round 22 Mogg (Combat)
Round 23 Knowledge
POTM: Mogg
March 2008
Round 24 Mogg (Consecutive Names)
Round 25 Chimpanzee (Consecutive Names)
Round 26 The Mad Tapper
Round 27 The Mad Tapper
POTM: The Mad Tapper
April 2008
Round 28 The Mad Tapper (DC5)
Round 29 jcsuperstar (DC5)
Round 30 jcsuperstar (< 20)
Round 31 bateleur
POTM: bateleur
May 2008
Round 32 WhammWhamme (Leyline)
Round 33 Silver Seraph (Mana Market)
Round 34 bateleur (Helm of Awakening and Mirari)
Round 35 Alfred (Pre-entered Decks)
POTM: bateleur
June 2008
Round 36 bateleur, YuanTi
Round 37 WhammWhamme (Favorite Colors)
Round 38 YuanTi (Lotus)
Round 39 Mogg (Mogg Week)
POTM: WhammWhamme
July 2008
Round 40 bateleur (Mulligans)
Round 41 Mogg
Round 42 Chimpanzee
Round 43 ced395 (Even)
POTM: Mogg
August 2008
Round 44 WhammWhamme (Odd)
Round 45 Farik (No Bans)
Round 46 Mogg
POTM: Error1
September 2008
Round 47 ghweiss (Low-Scoring)
Round 48 theeguy (Backbuild, Part Two)
Round 49 Mogg
Round 50 Mogg (50 Life)
Round 51 Error1 (Landline)
POTM: Mogg
October 2008
Round 52 Shogun17 (Exploration)
Round 53 MT_Gunn (Multicolor Discount)
Round 54 Silkenfist (2-2)
Round 55 bateleur, WhammWhamme
POTM: Error1
November 2008
Round 56 Error1 (Colorless Creatures)
Round 57 Knowledge, Silkenfist (Legendary Creatures)
POTM: None
December 2008
Round 58 (Introduction)
Round 59 Halinn
Round 60 Halinn
Round 61 ced395 (Christmas Special)
Round 62 MyNameIsFourteen (New Year's Special)
POTM: None
January 2009
Round 63 Mogg
Round 64 Mogg (Nemesis)
Round 65 MyNameIsFourteen (Nemesis)
Round 66 Mogg
POTM: Mogg
February 2009
Round 67 Chimpanzee
Round 68 MyNameIsFourteen (Lovely Letters)
Round 69 Naphtali (Lovely Letters, Part 2)
Round 70 bateleur
POTM: bateleur
March 2009
Round 71 ced395, Chimpanzee
Round 72 ced395 (Activated)
Round 73 WhammWhamme (Activated)
Round 74 bateleur
POTM: Chimpanzee
April 2009
Round 75 Xyre
Round 76 Mogg, ngollon (Landline-Orrery)
Round 77 Mogg (Landline-Orrery)
Round 78 Mogg
POTM: Mogg
May 2009
Round 79 bateleur
Round 80 ced395 (Upwelling)
Round 81 Mogg (Upwelling)
Round 82 Halinn
Round 83 r_x_
New Player Round math_geek
POTM: Mogg
June 2009
Round 84 Kekekekeke (Block Party)
Round 85 FuriouslySleepingIdea (Block Party)
Round 86 Mogg
Round 87 Farik
POTM: Mogg
July 2009
Round 88 bateleur, dethwing (Infinite Cards)
Round 89 Farik, lOput (Infinite Cards)
Round 90 Farik, Mogg, Personman
Round 91 Madmanquail
Round 92 bateleur (Backbuild, Part Three)
POTM: Madmanquail
August 2009
Round 93 DragonDart (Backbuild, Part Three)
Round 94 lOput
Round 95 domogrue
Round 96 Mogg (Dream Halls)
POTM: ced395
September 2009
Round 97 Mogg (Dream Halls)
Round 98 ced395
Round 99 FuriouslySleepingIdea
Round 100 bateleur, dethwing, FuriouslySleepingIdea, Krashbot, Shogun17, VikingMetal4L (100 Turns)
POTM: FuriouslySleepingIdea
October 2009
Round 101 Shogun17 (100 Turns Revised)
Round 102 Madmanquail
Round 103 bateleur, bman65, ced395
Round 104 (Results) VikingMetal4L
Round 105 SumPhatGuy (Strawman)
POTM: ced395
November 2009
Round 106 bman65 (Strawman)
Round 107 bateleur
Round 108 Madmanquail
Round 109 bman65 (Respray)
POTM: bman65
December 2009
Round 110 Xyre (Respray)
Round 111 ced395
Round 112 Personman
Rounds
Mogg: 26
bateleur: 21
Chimpanzee: 12
WhammWhamme: 10
ced395: 8
Greebo: 8
jcsuperstar: 8
Farik: 5
Halinn: 5
armlx: 4
Lone Warrior: 4
Shadowlord: 4
Xyre: 4
Beaker: 3
bman65: 3
FuriouslySleepingIdea: 3
Madmanquail: 3
MyNameIsFourteen: 3
r_x_: 3
Shogun17: 3
Silver Seraph: 3
The Mad Tapper: 3
Wanderer359: 3
carrion pigeons: 2
dasheiff: 2
dethwing: 2
Error1: 2
Knowledge: 2
lOput: 2
Personman: 2
Pingele_Pats: 2
Silkenfist: 2
spuzzem king: 2
VikingMetal4L: 2
YuanTi: 2
zu_Faul: 2
Alfred: 1
Amadi: 1
andelijah: 1
Ankh-Morpokian: 1
Death By Beebles: 1
domogrue: 1
Draco9_1_1: 1
DragonDart: 1
Feuerdrache: 1
Feyd_Ruin: 1
ghweiss: 1
help im a bug: 1
Kekekekeke: 1
Krashbot: 1
Meat Popsicle: 1
MT Gunn: 1
Naphtali: 1
ngollon: 1
Puzzle: 1
Solitaire: 1
SumPhatGuy: 1
Tahn: 1
theeguy: 1
Trojan: 1
Wrath_of_Dog: 1
zorbop: 1
POTM
Mogg: 11
bateleur: 6
Greebo: 3
ced395: 2
Chimpanzee: 2
Error1: 2
jcsuperstar: 2
WhammWhamme: 2
armlx: 1
Beaker: 1
bman65: 1
FuriouslySleepingIdea: 1
Lone Warrior: 1
Madmanquail: 1
math_geek: 1
Pingele_Pats: 1
Shadowlord: 1
silicon: 1
spuzzem king: 1
The Mad Tapper: 1
Dom Camus
Five Card Blind
Nick Chandler-Klein
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 1)
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 2)
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 3)
Alex Hoffman
Going Blind: A First Look at Lands
Going Blind: A Non-Basic Approach
Going Blind: Metagaming – Being Overly Analytical
Going Blind: Metagaming #2 – All Decked Out
Going Blind: XCB Metagaming – A Prolonged Conclusion
Forum Articles
Madmanquail
5CB Strategy
Mogg
5CB Strategy
Format: Niches
Some cards (listed in the spoiler below) have been designed for this round. You may use them.
Li'l Demagogue – 2W
Creature – Human Cleric
Shroud
Creatures can't attack you unless their controller pays 1 for each creature he or she controls that's attacking you.
2/2
Stomping Guy - 1RR
Creature – Human Shaman
Haste, protection from lands
Whenever Stomping Guy deals combat damage to a player, tap target land that player controls. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
1/2
Voltron - 6
Legendary Artifact Creature – Construct
Shroud
Voltron is indestructible.
5/5
Interfere - 2U
Instant
You may exile a card in your hand rather than pay Interfere's mana cost.
Counter target spell. If the spell is countered this way, exile it with a time counter on it instead of putting it into its owner's graveyard. If it doesn't have suspend, it gains suspend.
Fat Mox - 0
Artifact
Creature spells you cast cost up to 2 less to cast.
Pandora's Box - 2
Artifact
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, if that opponent has more life than you, you may put a 0/1 blue Homonculus artifact creature token onto the battlefield.
Dark Shoal
Land
Dark Shoal enters the battlefield with five ice counters on it.
:symtap:: Add 1 to your mana pool.
:symtap:: Remove an ice counter from Dark Shoal.
When Dark Shoal has no ice counters on it, sacrifice it. If you do, put a 3/2 black Avatar creature token into play.
Dried Lake
Land
Dried Lake enters the battlefield tapped.
:symtap:: Add U to your mana pool.
When a player casts a spell, sacrifice Dried Lake. If you do, counter that spell unless its controller pays 2.
Wonderland
Land
:symtap:: Put a storage counter on Wonderland.
:symtap:, Remove X storage counters from Wonderland: Add X mana in any combination of colors to your mana pool.
Functional changes:
2.1c, 2.2b
General aesthetic changes:
Made indenting consistent for all non-numbered sections (banned list, example for 2.6).
Combined all deck restrictions under one heading (2.2).
Broke some rules into more parts to create simpler headings (2.3 (by adding 2.3a and 2.3d), 2.4 (by adding 2.4a)). This caused some renumbering.
Other changes (for comprehensiveness):
Changed "Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules" to "the rules of Magic". (1.1)
Changed "informs players of mistakes" to "reports problems". (2.1a)
Changed "one match, consisting of two games," to "two games (one match)". (2.3)
Changed commas to dashes for consistency with 2.2a. (2.4a)
Changed "that wins one game and loses the other earns only 2 points" to "earns only 2 points for a split match (one win, one loss)". (2.4b)
Changed "becomes" to "is". (2.6)
Friday, December 25th, 2:00 pm PST.
Submit your deck to Mogg.
Please use this thread to discuss any aspect of 5CB. Also, consider a subscription to 5CB. Subscribed players who have not already submitted a deck receive a reminder PM about two days before deadline. PM Mogg to subscribe.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
@ced395 and bateleur: This format incredible! What a nice Christmas present. You guys are awesome.
@Mogg: I'm happy about no more Libraries of Alexandria. It was a good idea, but kinda messed things up. And made results lists potentially very confusing to newcomers!
I assume "The removal of an illegal deck does not affect deck distribution (see Rule 2.5)." means that n is the number of legal decks submitted? This is what makes sense, but it would be possible to interpret it to mean that n is the the total number of decks, including illegal ones (ie, the removal of an illegal deck doesn't affect deck distribution; decks are still distributed as they were had an illegal deck not been removed.). Perhaps this should be reworded?
Lastly, you made a pretty funny mistake. You added 2.2b ("A player may not submit a deck that can't win against any deck.") in between 2.2a and the example illustrating 2.2a. Which is
Your interpretation is correct. Below is an example of what I had in mind. I'll think of a way to word it more clearly.
Example: Twenty-one decks are submitted, divided randomly into two heats. After results have been posted, it's found that a deck in the ten-person heat is illegal. We do not now move a deck from the eleven-person heat to restore the balance. Instead, we proceed with the heats as they were before, minus the illegal deck.
Thanks for catching the ordering mistake. It's fixed.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
One reasonable possibility is that, given the above, we assume that any such deck is a mistake, and treat it as though it were illegal, since (as with Alexandria-fied decks) it would just feed, and perhaps unevenly.
In general, I think we like to operate under the assumption that every submission is an attempt to win. Violating this assumption tends to lead to unpleasantness: first of all, if people just randomly submit a lot of terrible decks that get one or two random wins, the game starts to lose the appeal of being a genuine contest of skill. More sinisterly, games like this are very vulnerable to collusion/multi-account abuse. If I submit a good deck and then a deck that can't win, but which draws to everyone except me, I've just netted myself 4 points. The new rule doesn't really do anything to stop this kind of thing (and I don't think it'll ever be a problem; we're such a small, collaboration-based community that that kind of behavior doesn't make much sense), but it does reinforce the overall 'every submission is an attempt to win' mentality.
This is the main reason, yes.
The problem is decks like this:
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Maze of Ith
Thoughtseize
The Rack
Clearly the submitter was playing around with five land, settled on what looked like a strong, control-oriented build and failed to notice it couldn't beat a goldfish. The trouble is, it will go 0-6 against some other decks, 1-4 against some and 2-2 against others. This will skew the field in a way that we'd rather avoid, with some players picking up random 4pt boosts for essentially no reason.
The old rule in which decks were kept in even if they couldn't win (and illegal decks given Libraries of Alexandria) existed mainly because of the PotM scoring system. Scoring zero for a week put you way out of contention. A string of 2-2 results was a lot better than nothing. Now there's pretty much no way a deck that can't win will score any PotM points at all, so this weirdness can be removed.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I'll admit I didn't get why it was quite so funny. Now I do. I've replaced a land with Scalding Tongs in each deck.
On why decks incapable of winning should be banned, Personman and bateleur have it right:
1. They're counter to the spirit of the competition; namely, that everyone is trying to win.
2. They affect results seemingly at random.
3. It's not a problem to get rid of them now, due to the current scoring system.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Does this mean that me and domogrue can't play anymore?
Modern UW Taking Turns
You have one card in your sideboard that you can side in when you're on the draw.
Think this could work into 5CB somehow? Maybe reduce to 4CB with 1 card Sb making 5?
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Certainly nice card against Tokens, if it doesn't get Mesmeric Fiended first. Although Leyline is almost always better.
Obviously made to counter manlands. It doesn't stop Tabernacle, but you should be fine if you run enough lands.
Some sort of factory deck I suppose.
Force of Will + Delay. If you've got a combo deck that wins or sets up in one turn, it's the new Pact of Negation. Should see some play.
Not sure how to use this best, but looks neat.
Against a slow burn deck (tongs, vise) it doesn't help you win unless you find a way to pump the tokens.
Dark Depths junior. Only difference is that it produces mana and can free itself faster.
Force Spike attatched to a land. Seems like quite a powerful card in a land deck, but it autotriggers when the first spell is cast so I don't know. I'm sure someone can find a good use for it.
Super storage land. Obsoletes the original storages, doesn't it?
It's strictly better than the Masques ones, which are in turn mostly better than the Fallen Empires ones.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>