Hey guys,
Sorry for the late post. Real life caught up with me quite a bit this week, and I simply don't have time to finish out the results (the figure of destiny matches are seriously tricky to figure out, too). Here is the work-in-progress spreadsheet, much of its completion due to plsy4mne. If anyone posts with any or all of the results for these (w/ brief explanations if they're complex) I'll check back and update the spreadsheet periodically this weekend, but probably won't integrate this week fully into the main spreadsheet until monday
Meanwhile, a theme for the next two weeks. I'm exceptionally sleepy right now, so I can't guarantee this idea isn't stupid, but I'm intrigued by the idea of Creature Hate week:
Players may, once per game any time they could play a sorcery, use the sourceless ability "Skip your next three turns: destroy target creature. If a creature token with the same name as a creature destroyed this way would enter the battlefield, instead it doesn't. (This effect lasts indefinitely)"
I think this would be a pretty strong push towards more interesting win conditions than just picking the right configuration of the fastest clock and the best removal, and we might see more recursion, other permanent types, and instant/sorcery wincons.
Please raise any rules issues, fun-ness issues, or alternate suggestions by midday-ish Sunday. I'll extend the deadline to Thursday night since we got behind this week, but try to get back on schedule next week.
EDIT: We're going with the format defined above. Deadline is 11:59pm EST this Thursday.
EDIT 2: I'm not going to make a new thread, but if I did it would be called '2CB 10 - Figuring it Out', even if a Figure deck doesn't win, because a) people figured out that it's good and b) figuring out matches with it is really hard >_<.
The variant format proposed has the problem that it leaves Beacon somewhat intact. I wonder whether the ability be worded more like Maelstrom Pulse?
I have a lot of corrections for my rounds. Basically: my deck is not as good as it looks?
VM4L vs. Xyre: 2-2, not 6-0. He always has Spell Snare for my Shortfang; I always have Recoil for his Genju.
VM4L vs. mutantman: 4-1, not 0-6. VM4L on the play, I can land Shortfang, which races Dreadwing. mutantman on the play, he has to Castigate my Shortfang or he still loses the race, then I Recoil his Dreadwing.
VM4L vs. psly4mne: 3-3, not 6-0. VM4L on the play, Shortfang races Rhys. Psly on the play, my Recoil can't hold off T1 Rhys, T2 Castigate Shortfang, T3 elf token.
VM4L vs. ced395: 4-1, not 6-0. VM4L on the play; yeah, I win. ced on the play: I get T2 Shortfang, he goes T3 necro sliver. Whether or not he plays the Stronghold T3, I can make him discard it on my T3. Necro sliver then eats Shortfang.
VM4L vs. bmh: 2-2. Chainer's kills Shortfang ASAP (or else he loses), at which point I Recoil his Dreadwing.
VM4L vs domogrue: 1-4, not 3-3. VM4L on play, Shortfang makes him discard something T3. It has to be Beacon or he loses that on my T4 anyway. Then he Pulses my guy. When he's on the play, he Pulses my guy before I get a discard activation.
VM4L vs. jordman: 2-2, not 4-1. VM4L on the play I get T2 shortfang, T3 activate. He has to discard Perfect or else he loses it to Recoil anyway. He pulses my guy. With jordman on the play, he similarly has to Pulse my Shortfang or he's going to discard it (and Shortfang + Recoil beats Perfect alone).
VM4L vs Tails2k5: 2-2. Recoil + dude trades with Recoil + dude (Shortfang's discard potential forces the trade).
Here are most of bmh's matches. I skipped bmh vs tails2k5; my guess is 3-3 for that match, but I didn't actually check it. There are a lot of cases to count.
bmh vs Personman: 0-6. Bitterblossom alone beats bmh's deck.
bmh vs VM4L: 2-2 as posted.
bmh vs Xyre: 2-2. Chainer's is irrelevant; Genju races Dreadwing.
bmh vs DragonDart: 3-3. Here's the game with DD on the play:
T1 DD nothing, bmh Dreadwing
T2 DD rats (players discard), no attack from bmh
T3 DD attack w/ rats, bmh(19) attack for 4
T4 DD(16) third Mountain, bmh(18) attack 4
T5 DD(12) upkeep regrow Phoenix, bmh(17) can't pump or he loses Dreadwing to the incoming Phoenix (which doesn't kill fliers).
T6 DD(11) Phoenix, bmh(16) no attack
At this point, bmh's only hope is to get to 19 land to flashback Chainer's and 4x pump Dreadwing to get there for 13. The rats kill bmh first.
With bmh on the play, if DD plays T2 rats, then DD can't play Phoenix till turn 6, but Dreadwing goldfishes turn 6. If DD does not play T2 rats so that he can get T5 Phoenix, the game is:
T1 bmh Dreadwing
T2 DD(19)
T3 DD(15)
T4 DD(11)
T5 bmh can't pump, DD(10) Phoenix
T6 bmh cast Chainer's (else discards it next turn to rats), pumps Dreadwing in response to Phoenix's activated ability, attacks. DD(6) upkeep regrow Phoenix, no mana to play it, loses to bmh's attack for 7.
bmh vs mutantman: 2-2. Mutantman Castigates the Edict, then two Dreadwings annihilate.
bmh vs psly4mne: 6-0. Rhys is too slow to race Dreadwing, especially when psly4mne has to play Castigate first to clear the way.
bmh vs ced395: 0-6. Ced has T3 necro sliver, which bmh must kill with Chainer's. This slows bmh down so that he can't goldfish T6, and ced can get a necro sliver activation on T6.
bmh vs Shogun17: 0-6. Exploration + Valakut gets first trigger turn 4.
The vindicate decks are all easy to score here:
bmh vs dethwing: 0-6.
bmh vs domogrue: 0-6.
bmh vs jordman: 2-2
bmh vs WhammWhamme: 3-3. With WW on the play, recall Dreadwing goldfishes T6, but is slowed down at least one turn Figure (for example Figure discourages the T2 attack). Valakut gets first trigger T7, killing Dreadwing. Bmh on the play: WW's T1 figure buys him one life early on, slowing bmh's clock down to T7. But bmh uses his extra two mana on T5 to cast Chainer's, so that the first attack is the only one he misses, still killing WW before Valakut comes online.
I added the last 2 posts to the sheet. There are still 5 uncalculated matches, but if everything that is written is correct, then domogrue wins.
As for the special format, I would suggest we use bmh's suggestion of backbackbuild, where all decks must lose 0-6 to a fixed test deck, but the format is otherwise normal. To make the format interesting, I would favor making the test deck something bad like Dryad Arbor, Regress.
...on a related note, *I* 3-3 jordman; on the play, Valakut alone is *just* fast enough to pop all his tokens before they beat me to dearth (if I started with 23 life, I'd beat him on the draw too :-/).
3: 3rd land
3: Imperious Perfect
4: 4th land
4: Make token
5: 5th land
5: Make token, swing (18)
6: 6th land
6: Make token, swing (14)
7: 7th land, pop Perfect
7: Swing (11)
8: 8th land, pop token
8: Swing (9)
9: 9th land, pop token
9: Swing (8)
0: 10th land, pop token
0: Nothing
Well, no one has said anything and four people have submitted, so I guess we're going with my format. VikingMetal4L has pointed out that it should really be
"Skip your next three turns: destroy target creature. If a creature token with the same name as a creature destroyed this way would come into play, instead it doesn't. (This effect lasts indefinitely)"
since things can't be destroyed before they're put into play. Also, it should be
"Skip your next three turns: destroy target creature. If a creature token with the same name as a creature destroyed this way would enter the battlefield, instead it doesn't. (This effect lasts indefinitely)"
because everything is stupid now.
Many corrections/additions have been incorporated, and the results have been added to the main spreadsheet. There are still some figure of destiny matches I'm working on.
Remember the deadline is 11:59pm EST this Thursday this week.
Tails2k5 vs. the field with my hard-to-calculate deck:
vs figure, bitterblossom (1-4)
lose on draw, tie on play by recoiling bb and then sitting back to trade figures
vs. dreadwing, castigate (4-1)
tie on draw (Dreadwing attacks on t2, I block and trade => draw. If dreadwing doesn't attack, I win on one life by just pumping figure)
win on play (figure outraces dreadwing, the spells are worthless)
vs. Dreadwing, Chainer's Edict (1-4)
tie on play (they chainer's figure or else they lose, i recoil dreadwing)
lose on draw (they race with dreadwing, when i recoil they discard edict and then get to 7 mana and flashback before the kill)
vs. figure, valakut (4-1)
tie on draw:
they lose if they play valakut
figure
figure
pump 18
pump 18
pump 14
pump 14
10
island 10
6
swamp 6
pump, i recoil, they discard valak.
2
replay figure, pump pump
attack, they must block --draw--
on play: win
(lose if they play valakut by recoiling figure, lose if they try to trade figures as on the play my figure gets in for 2 + 4 + 8 = 14 damage on the turns they can't block, then i recoil figure and attack)
Thanks! Results are now complete, though I would be extremely unsurprised if there were errors. Congrats to domogrue for pulling out the win by 1 point!
VM4L, I also finally fixed the error you noticed from last round.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Sorry for the late post. Real life caught up with me quite a bit this week, and I simply don't have time to finish out the results (the figure of destiny matches are seriously tricky to figure out, too). Here is the work-in-progress spreadsheet, much of its completion due to plsy4mne. If anyone posts with any or all of the results for these (w/ brief explanations if they're complex) I'll check back and update the spreadsheet periodically this weekend, but probably won't integrate this week fully into the main spreadsheet until monday
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tAnXNNzF81763XFl1Fr-lBQ&single=true&gid=23&output=html
UPDATE - Main Spreadsheet: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tA_X7YcXL7yXMcZmBxhOSGA&output=html
Congrats to dethwing!
Meanwhile, a theme for the next two weeks. I'm exceptionally sleepy right now, so I can't guarantee this idea isn't stupid, but I'm intrigued by the idea of Creature Hate week:
Players may, once per game any time they could play a sorcery, use the sourceless ability "Skip your next three turns: destroy target creature. If a creature token with the same name as a creature destroyed this way would enter the battlefield, instead it doesn't. (This effect lasts indefinitely)"
I think this would be a pretty strong push towards more interesting win conditions than just picking the right configuration of the fastest clock and the best removal, and we might see more recursion, other permanent types, and instant/sorcery wincons.
Please raise any rules issues, fun-ness issues, or alternate suggestions by midday-ish Sunday. I'll extend the deadline to Thursday night since we got behind this week, but try to get back on schedule next week.
EDIT: We're going with the format defined above. Deadline is 11:59pm EST this Thursday.
EDIT 2: I'm not going to make a new thread, but if I did it would be called '2CB 10 - Figuring it Out', even if a Figure deck doesn't win, because a) people figured out that it's good and b) figuring out matches with it is really hard >_<.
I have a lot of corrections for my rounds. Basically: my deck is not as good as it looks?
VM4L vs. Xyre: 2-2, not 6-0. He always has Spell Snare for my Shortfang; I always have Recoil for his Genju.
VM4L vs. mutantman: 4-1, not 0-6. VM4L on the play, I can land Shortfang, which races Dreadwing. mutantman on the play, he has to Castigate my Shortfang or he still loses the race, then I Recoil his Dreadwing.
VM4L vs. psly4mne: 3-3, not 6-0. VM4L on the play, Shortfang races Rhys. Psly on the play, my Recoil can't hold off T1 Rhys, T2 Castigate Shortfang, T3 elf token.
VM4L vs. ced395: 4-1, not 6-0. VM4L on the play; yeah, I win. ced on the play: I get T2 Shortfang, he goes T3 necro sliver. Whether or not he plays the Stronghold T3, I can make him discard it on my T3. Necro sliver then eats Shortfang.
VM4L vs. bmh: 2-2. Chainer's kills Shortfang ASAP (or else he loses), at which point I Recoil his Dreadwing.
VM4L vs domogrue: 1-4, not 3-3. VM4L on play, Shortfang makes him discard something T3. It has to be Beacon or he loses that on my T4 anyway. Then he Pulses my guy. When he's on the play, he Pulses my guy before I get a discard activation.
VM4L vs. jordman: 2-2, not 4-1. VM4L on the play I get T2 shortfang, T3 activate. He has to discard Perfect or else he loses it to Recoil anyway. He pulses my guy. With jordman on the play, he similarly has to Pulse my Shortfang or he's going to discard it (and Shortfang + Recoil beats Perfect alone).
VM4L vs Tails2k5: 2-2. Recoil + dude trades with Recoil + dude (Shortfang's discard potential forces the trade).
bmh vs Personman: 0-6. Bitterblossom alone beats bmh's deck.
bmh vs VM4L: 2-2 as posted.
bmh vs Xyre: 2-2. Chainer's is irrelevant; Genju races Dreadwing.
bmh vs DragonDart: 3-3. Here's the game with DD on the play:
T1 DD nothing, bmh Dreadwing
T2 DD rats (players discard), no attack from bmh
T3 DD attack w/ rats, bmh(19) attack for 4
T4 DD(16) third Mountain, bmh(18) attack 4
T5 DD(12) upkeep regrow Phoenix, bmh(17) can't pump or he loses Dreadwing to the incoming Phoenix (which doesn't kill fliers).
T6 DD(11) Phoenix, bmh(16) no attack
At this point, bmh's only hope is to get to 19 land to flashback Chainer's and 4x pump Dreadwing to get there for 13. The rats kill bmh first.
With bmh on the play, if DD plays T2 rats, then DD can't play Phoenix till turn 6, but Dreadwing goldfishes turn 6. If DD does not play T2 rats so that he can get T5 Phoenix, the game is:
T1 bmh Dreadwing
T2 DD(19)
T3 DD(15)
T4 DD(11)
T5 bmh can't pump, DD(10) Phoenix
T6 bmh cast Chainer's (else discards it next turn to rats), pumps Dreadwing in response to Phoenix's activated ability, attacks. DD(6) upkeep regrow Phoenix, no mana to play it, loses to bmh's attack for 7.
bmh vs mutantman: 2-2. Mutantman Castigates the Edict, then two Dreadwings annihilate.
bmh vs psly4mne: 6-0. Rhys is too slow to race Dreadwing, especially when psly4mne has to play Castigate first to clear the way.
bmh vs ced395: 0-6. Ced has T3 necro sliver, which bmh must kill with Chainer's. This slows bmh down so that he can't goldfish T6, and ced can get a necro sliver activation on T6.
bmh vs Shogun17: 0-6. Exploration + Valakut gets first trigger turn 4.
The vindicate decks are all easy to score here:
bmh vs dethwing: 0-6.
bmh vs domogrue: 0-6.
bmh vs jordman: 2-2
bmh vs WhammWhamme: 3-3. With WW on the play, recall Dreadwing goldfishes T6, but is slowed down at least one turn Figure (for example Figure discourages the T2 attack). Valakut gets first trigger T7, killing Dreadwing. Bmh on the play: WW's T1 figure buys him one life early on, slowing bmh's clock down to T7. But bmh uses his extra two mana on T5 to cast Chainer's, so that the first attack is the only one he misses, still killing WW before Valakut comes online.
bmh vs Tails2k5: ?
As for the special format, I would suggest we use bmh's suggestion of backbackbuild, where all decks must lose 0-6 to a fixed test deck, but the format is otherwise normal. To make the format interesting, I would favor making the test deck something bad like Dryad Arbor, Regress.
11) Shogun17
14) jordman
Maelstrom Pulse can't hit lands, so once my Valakut goes online, I can just kill the Perfect.
3: 3rd land
3: Imperious Perfect
4: 4th land
4: Make token
5: 5th land
5: Make token, swing (18)
6: 6th land
6: Make token, swing (14)
7: 7th land, pop Perfect
7: Swing (11)
8: 8th land, pop token
8: Swing (9)
9: 9th land, pop token
9: Swing (8)
0: 10th land, pop token
0: Nothing
"Skip your next three turns: destroy target creature. If a creature token with the same name as a creature destroyed this way would come into play, instead it doesn't. (This effect lasts indefinitely)"
since things can't be destroyed before they're put into play. Also, it should be
"Skip your next three turns: destroy target creature. If a creature token with the same name as a creature destroyed this way would enter the battlefield, instead it doesn't. (This effect lasts indefinitely)"
because everything is stupid now.
Many corrections/additions have been incorporated, and the results have been added to the main spreadsheet. There are still some figure of destiny matches I'm working on.
Remember the deadline is 11:59pm EST this Thursday this week.
vs figure, bitterblossom (1-4)
lose on draw, tie on play by recoiling bb and then sitting back to trade figures
vs. dreadwing, castigate (4-1)
tie on draw (Dreadwing attacks on t2, I block and trade => draw. If dreadwing doesn't attack, I win on one life by just pumping figure)
win on play (figure outraces dreadwing, the spells are worthless)
vs. Dreadwing, Chainer's Edict (1-4)
tie on play (they chainer's figure or else they lose, i recoil dreadwing)
lose on draw (they race with dreadwing, when i recoil they discard edict and then get to 7 mana and flashback before the kill)
vs. figure, valakut (4-1)
tie on draw:
they lose if they play valakut
figure
figure
pump 18
pump 18
pump 14
pump 14
10
island 10
6
swamp 6
pump, i recoil, they discard valak.
2
replay figure, pump pump
attack, they must block --draw--
on play: win
(lose if they play valakut by recoiling figure, lose if they try to trade figures as on the play my figure gets in for 2 + 4 + 8 = 14 damage on the turns they can't block, then i recoil figure and attack)
VM4L, I also finally fixed the error you noticed from last round.