Pretty surprising lack of strong contenders from last time. And I think it's pretty clear that Desecration Elemental just doesn't work here the same way it did in 5CB.
Next week's format is normal, pending discussion. There have been stirrings towards increasing the frequency of special formats, and of Backbuild in particular. It's enough yet that I'll consider doing it unless I hear pretty strong support in this thread in the next few days. Options include:
* Keeping the two weeks on, two weeks off format, but having all special weeks be backbuild
* Doing one normal week / two weeks of a special format
* Doing one normal week / three weeks of a special formal
* Doing one normal week / one backbuild week / two weeks of a special format
* Anything else you think of.
I'll listen to opinions and then make an autocratic decision by Saturday.
Deadline for whatever we come up with will be Midnight EST next Wednesday.
This week's format is normal. The rules have been updated with an extended banned list as discussed in the thread. The deadline is 11:59:59 EST next Wednesday.
POTM results have been added to the spreadsheet! Congrats to VikingMetal4L on the win.
0. Overview
Two Card Blind (2CB) is a Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit two-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly two cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
1.5 Whenever a player could play a land card, that player may put a basic land card from outside the game onto the battlefield.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 2CB moderator (Personman).
2.1a. The moderator informs players of mistakes in a timely manner.
2.1b. A player may submit multiple decks, but only the most recent is counted.
2.1c. If a player's final deck is illegal, that deck is entered in that week's tournament.
2.2. A player may not submit a deck that can – against any deck – win the game or force one or more cards in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's first turn.
2.3. A deck may include any number of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1).
2.4. Each player plays one match, consisting of two games, against each other player. Each player is the starting player once per match. Results assume optimal play and perfect information.
2.4a. If no player can win, the game is a draw.
2.4b. A player that can't win or draw plays to extend the game.
2.5. Points determine tournament standings. Players are ranked, first to last, in order of decreasing number of points.
2.5a. For each match, a player earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. Matches in which each player wins one game and loses one game are worth only 2 points per player, rather than 3.
2.5b. A table of match results is posted each round. Its rows represent players and its columns represent opponents. Match results reflect the combined result of both games played in a match; 3 is a game win, 1 a drawn game, and 0 a game loss. A player's points are listed at the end of his or her row.
2.5c. If I receive too many decks, players will be randomly divided into heats.
3. Banned List
3.1 The following cards are banned. Any deck that includes a card on this list is illegal.
Each month, the player with the highest combined score from the four rounds that month is designated Player of the Month. Here are the previous winners, in reverse chronological order:
For the record, my build loses to Rath's Edge+no spells, Standstill doesn't. Oh, and I draw with the Reikai deck rather than beating it. Hence the random 1/1.
Copper Tablet??? I looked at it, and discounted it immediately on account of being a turn faster than Forsaken Wastes and being able to kill the Nefarious Lich deck!
I definitely support running more alternate format weeks than normal weeks, as I enjoy the puzzle aspect of trying to "solve" new formats, even if the alternate format just means "here's a big banned list for the week." I would be interested in trying backbuild with nontrivial test decks (Mons' Goblin Raiders + Squire?). I would also be interested in seeing a format with a lower bound on allowed converted mana costs (3? 4?? 5???), which I think would result in more matches going 6-0.
Copper Tablet??? I looked at it, and discounted it immediately on account of being a turn faster than Forsaken Wastes and being able to kill the Nefarious Lich deck!
Copper Tablet ties the Nefarious Lich deck. Again, Lich waits until he's at 1 life to drop the Lich, then pings, and the Tablet player dies during their upkeep.
I definitely support running more alternate format weeks than normal weeks, as I enjoy the puzzle aspect of trying to "solve" new formats, even if the alternate format just means "here's a big banned list for the week."
I enjoy doing different formats as well. Too much of any format, whether that's normal or backbuild, gets old. I do like doing the same format two weeks in a row, so I guess I'd suggest doing a different format every two weeks. Every once in a while, we could do a set (two weeks) of normal or a set of backbuild. Since normal doesn't change much except when a new set is released (nor does backbuild), I'd think that doing a set of normal each time a new set is released would probably suffice. Although backbuild with different conditions would be a decent way to mix it up.
I don't think once every time a new set is released is enough for normal. I enjoy normal. I like returning to it after two weeks of special formats. Before we talk about dropping normal rounds, maybe we should talk about WHY people don't like normal rounds.
This seems like a good time to talk about bannings that are sorely needed for the normal format, not because they win EVERY week, but because they force the format into two or three viable decks (mostly Braids and Rack). Each week, when a different deck wins, it is taken as evidence that the format needs no bannings because nothing is winning every single week. If The Rack, Balance, Braids, and Meddling Mage/Tidehollow cullers were banned, I think there would be some interesting developments from week to week. Without changing anything, I can agree that the normal format can get a bit monotonous.
Basically, I don't like the idea of dropping normal weeks. That's the whole point of the format... special weeks are an interesting diversion, but I'd be annoyed if we only rarely got to play normal... part of having a normal format is having a metagame to consider. This doesn't work especially well if you only play it every 3 or four months...
Here are my thoughts on specifically suggested options:
* Keeping the two weeks on, two weeks off format, but having all special weeks be backbuild
Ew. Backbuild shouldn't be the only special week we can have. It's a pretty narrow and stultifying format, really. Not one worth doing on a regular basis.
* Doing one normal week / two weeks of a special format
Kind of screws up POTM... I don't think we should do any 3-week rotation.
* Doing one normal week / three weeks of a special formal
Normal needs work, but replacing one week of it with a special isn't the answer.
* Doing one normal week / one backbuild week / two weeks of a special format
This doesn't allow for special formats to evolve... one-shot specials would be a lot less interesting than doing two weeks of it in a row...
I vote to keep the rotation the same and ban some cards in the normal format to allow more room to breathe.
Also, can someone clarify exactly what time the deadline is? (I always find that having a deadline at midnight exactly is asking for misunderstanding...)
I think a bunch of bans in normal is a good solution to people feeling like it's getting stale.
I wonder if the list should be
Meddling Mage
Tidehollow Sculler
The Rack
Black Lotus
instead of Braids, though. There were some other pretty strong Lotus decks that week too.
You did misread the last suggestion, which is actually 1x Normal, 1x Backbuild, 2x Special Week, but I don't think knowing that would change your opinion of it much
The deadline is at the end of Wednesday on the east coast of the US.
I want to actually have a settled format so people can send me decks, so I'll leave discussion open til around 5 or 6 this evening, at which point if no one has changed me mind we the format will be normal with the above bans for the next two weeks, and the standard pattern will continue with the special weeks being backbuild at least once for every set that comes out.
Good point. I'm also potentially concerned about Thieving Sprite and Ravenous Rats, but I think it's best to be conservative with bans, so they're safe for now.
As no one else has chimed in, I'm updating the OP with the format as described in my previous post, plus the bannage of Mesmeric Fiend.
Pretty surprising lack of strong contenders from last time. And I think it's pretty clear that Desecration Elemental just doesn't work here the same way it did in 5CB.
* Keeping the two weeks on, two weeks off format, but having all special weeks be backbuild
* Doing one normal week / two weeks of a special format
* Doing one normal week / three weeks of a special formal
* Doing one normal week / one backbuild week / two weeks of a special format
* Anything else you think of.
I'll listen to opinions and then make an autocratic decision by Saturday.
Deadline for whatever we come up with will be Midnight EST next Wednesday.
This week's format is normal. The rules have been updated with an extended banned list as discussed in the thread. The deadline is 11:59:59 EST next Wednesday.
POTM results have been added to the spreadsheet! Congrats to VikingMetal4L on the win.
Two Card Blind (2CB) is a Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit two-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly two cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
1.5 Whenever a player could play a land card, that player may put a basic land card from outside the game onto the battlefield.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 2CB moderator (Personman).
2.1a. The moderator informs players of mistakes in a timely manner.
2.1b. A player may submit multiple decks, but only the most recent is counted.
2.1c. If a player's final deck is illegal, that deck is entered in that week's tournament.
2.2. A player may not submit a deck that can – against any deck – win the game or force one or more cards in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's first turn.
2.3. A deck may include any number of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1).
2.4. Each player plays one match, consisting of two games, against each other player. Each player is the starting player once per match. Results assume optimal play and perfect information.
2.4a. If no player can win, the game is a draw.
2.4b. A player that can't win or draw plays to extend the game.
2.5. Points determine tournament standings. Players are ranked, first to last, in order of decreasing number of points.
2.5a. For each match, a player earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. Matches in which each player wins one game and loses one game are worth only 2 points per player, rather than 3.
2.5b. A table of match results is posted each round. Its rows represent players and its columns represent opponents. Match results reflect the combined result of both games played in a match; 3 is a game win, 1 a drawn game, and 0 a game loss. A player's points are listed at the end of his or her row.
2.5c. If I receive too many decks, players will be randomly divided into heats.
3. Banned List
3.1 The following cards are banned. Any deck that includes a card on this list is illegal.
* Fastbond
* Meddling Mage
* Tidehollow Sculler
* Mesmeric Fiend
* The Rack
* Black Lotus
Each month, the player with the highest combined score from the four rounds that month is designated Player of the Month. Here are the previous winners, in reverse chronological order:
POTM 2: VikingMetal4L
POTM 1: DragonDart
Backbuild is fun.
Modern UW Taking Turns
I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys
I definitely support running more alternate format weeks than normal weeks, as I enjoy the puzzle aspect of trying to "solve" new formats, even if the alternate format just means "here's a big banned list for the week." I would be interested in trying backbuild with nontrivial test decks (Mons' Goblin Raiders + Squire?). I would also be interested in seeing a format with a lower bound on allowed converted mana costs (3? 4?? 5???), which I think would result in more matches going 6-0.
Copper Tablet ties the Nefarious Lich deck. Again, Lich waits until he's at 1 life to drop the Lich, then pings, and the Tablet player dies during their upkeep.
I enjoy doing different formats as well. Too much of any format, whether that's normal or backbuild, gets old. I do like doing the same format two weeks in a row, so I guess I'd suggest doing a different format every two weeks. Every once in a while, we could do a set (two weeks) of normal or a set of backbuild. Since normal doesn't change much except when a new set is released (nor does backbuild), I'd think that doing a set of normal each time a new set is released would probably suffice. Although backbuild with different conditions would be a decent way to mix it up.
This seems like a good time to talk about bannings that are sorely needed for the normal format, not because they win EVERY week, but because they force the format into two or three viable decks (mostly Braids and Rack). Each week, when a different deck wins, it is taken as evidence that the format needs no bannings because nothing is winning every single week. If The Rack, Balance, Braids, and Meddling Mage/Tidehollow cullers were banned, I think there would be some interesting developments from week to week. Without changing anything, I can agree that the normal format can get a bit monotonous.
Basically, I don't like the idea of dropping normal weeks. That's the whole point of the format... special weeks are an interesting diversion, but I'd be annoyed if we only rarely got to play normal... part of having a normal format is having a metagame to consider. This doesn't work especially well if you only play it every 3 or four months...
Here are my thoughts on specifically suggested options:
* Keeping the two weeks on, two weeks off format, but having all special weeks be backbuild
Ew. Backbuild shouldn't be the only special week we can have. It's a pretty narrow and stultifying format, really. Not one worth doing on a regular basis.
* Doing one normal week / two weeks of a special format
Kind of screws up POTM... I don't think we should do any 3-week rotation.
* Doing one normal week / three weeks of a special formal
Normal needs work, but replacing one week of it with a special isn't the answer.
* Doing one normal week / one backbuild week / two weeks of a special format
This doesn't allow for special formats to evolve... one-shot specials would be a lot less interesting than doing two weeks of it in a row...
I vote to keep the rotation the same and ban some cards in the normal format to allow more room to breathe.
Also, can someone clarify exactly what time the deadline is? (I always find that having a deadline at midnight exactly is asking for misunderstanding...)
I think a bunch of bans in normal is a good solution to people feeling like it's getting stale.
I wonder if the list should be
Meddling Mage
Tidehollow Sculler
The Rack
Black Lotus
instead of Braids, though. There were some other pretty strong Lotus decks that week too.
You did misread the last suggestion, which is actually 1x Normal, 1x Backbuild, 2x Special Week, but I don't think knowing that would change your opinion of it much
The deadline is at the end of Wednesday on the east coast of the US.
I want to actually have a settled format so people can send me decks, so I'll leave discussion open til around 5 or 6 this evening, at which point if no one has changed me mind we the format will be normal with the above bans for the next two weeks, and the standard pattern will continue with the special weeks being backbuild at least once for every set that comes out.
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As no one else has chimed in, I'm updating the OP with the format as described in my previous post, plus the bannage of Mesmeric Fiend.
Modern UW Taking Turns