Two Card Blind (2CB) is a Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit two-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly two cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
1.5 Whenever a player could play a land card, that player may put a basic land card from outside the game onto the battlefield.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 2CB moderator (Personman).
2.1a. The moderator informs players of mistakes in a timely manner.
2.1b. A player may submit multiple decks, but only the most recent is counted.
2.1c. If a player's final deck is illegal, that deck is entered in that week's tournament.
2.2. A player may not submit a deck that can – against any deck – win the game or force one or more cards in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's first turn.
2.3. A deck may include any number of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1).
2.4. Each player plays one match, consisting of two games, against each other player. Each player is the starting player once per match. Results assume optimal play and perfect information.
2.4a. If no player can win, the game is a draw.
2.4b. A player that can't win or draw plays to extend the game.
2.5. Points determine tournament standings. Players are ranked, first to last, in order of decreasing number of points.
2.5a. For each match, a player earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. Matches in which each player wins one game and loses one game are worth only 2 points per player, rather than 3.
2.5b. A table of match results is posted each round. Its rows represent players and its columns represent opponents. Match results reflect the combined result of both games played in a match; 3 is a game win, 1 a drawn game, and 0 a game loss. A player's points are listed at the end of his or her row.
2.5c. If I receive too many decks, players will be randomly divided into heats.
3. Banned List
3.1 The following cards are banned. Any deck that includes a card on this list is illegal.
* Fastbond
This week is a special week:
Backbuild
Before each match, you trade decks with your opponent. Scores are calculated based on your match results against your own deck.
To be legal, a deck must win 6-0 against all decks that consist of two basic lands.
Rule 2.2 (restrictions on winning and discard) does not apply.
The deadline is next Wednesday, 10/7/09, at midnight EST.
I should 3-3 with jordman--when he's on the play, he Mages my Balance and Pulses my Genju (Genju is not like Rancor).
Also, I think I 2-2 with psly4mne, as I have to just Balance away his hand, which wrecks my own board, but at least I can replay Genju to block indefinitely.
But: I definitely do 6-0 FSI's Lavalanche deck, as it is SLOW while I goldfish turn 6.
I guess I feel like Genju is worse than The Rack in The Balance Deck--oh well.
I look forward to backbuild, though I am concerned that the baseline requirement is too easy.
I think changing the backbuild condition to, say, Dryad Arbor and a basic land would make this harder to do correctly. ANY deck that can win can beat two basic lands, but put 'em on a twenty turn clock and you'll see some more creativity here.
I think changing the backbuild condition to, say, Dryad Arbor and a basic land would make this harder to do correctly.
Not necessarily. See, for example, what happened in 5CB when Mogg tried something similar.
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(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I can always get to two lands and get Vampire Hexmage down. At this point, if he chooses creature, we both sac and he'll die later from Dark Depths. Choosing land doesn't do anything as I'll just sac a swamp. Then, I'll eventually play Dark Depths, wait until after his upkeep, then sac Hexmage. I can then attack for 20 on my next turn.
Thing is bat, you can beat two basic lands with anything, no matter how slow it is - even Meteor Shower/Mountain can beat it. If there's a clock you'll need to be a bit more creative, even if it just means you use Stone Rain.
Thing is bat, you can beat two basic lands with anything, no matter how slow it is
Well yes, sure. How is that bad?
If there's a clock you'll need to be a bit more creative
I don't think you've thought about this enough!
I don't about 2CB, but the exact opposite is true in 5CB. The requirement to deal with a Dryad Arbor removed most of the (viable) interesting decks and left a pretty inflexible requirement to build around the enemy's Arbor.
Mogg made a good call in changing the format, because the old one was too well solved to make a good repeat special week, but it would be very hard to argue that the with-Arbor version was better.
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--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
The numbers in the top row of the spreadsheet are all out of order... they need to be corrected by someone who has access to edit it.
Heh... this is exactly what I thought things would play out. How amusing. I'll shut up about bannings for the moment, though I still think they are necessary. They would allow creative decks to actually stand a chance against the so-called "net-decks" (nevermind that this entire format exists only in internet-based forums...).
One correction:
I should 6-0 Viking. He can never get to 2 mana, and can only sacrifice lands, thus he never gets a chance to activate Genju or cast Balance.
Anyway, on to next week! I don't think Arbor should be part of this backbuild. It was a nice change of pace, but it shouldn't be the standard. And I've never tried backbuild in 2CB. Having ready access to infinite lands actually changes the format quite a bit. Very excited to see what people come up with.
One correction:
I should 6-0 Viking. He can never get to 2 mana, and can only sacrifice lands, thus he never gets a chance to activate Genju or cast Balance.
Aw damn, I definitely thought Braids was more like Smokestack so I could just throw away Genju and Balance your board. Also, I was hoping somebody would with play with The Rack again this week, as Genju races Rack.
I am unsure how my match vs psly4mne goes 3-3 (and is extra interesting) rather than 2-2. I can't beat Restore Balance, so I have to use real Balance to take it out of his hand--he sacrifices his lands to set me back, Genju returns to my hand, and by the time I get it online, it's just about time to start blocking with it every turn.
Wow, I'm silly. And tired. What happened is I was working out the match, saw that he was at 2 when he got Garg out, and was like, oh, he wasn't dead yet when the Thing happened, he must win. And VM4L said the result was supposed to be two of the same number so since he just won it must be 3-3. Durr. Anyway scores don't change.
They do change as a result of DragonDart's correction though. Good job tricking both me and Psly4mne on that one.
I don't about 2CB, but the exact opposite is true in 5CB. The requirement to deal with a Dryad Arbor removed most of the (viable) interesting decks and left a pretty inflexible requirement to build around the enemy's Arbor.
Mogg made a good call in changing the format, because the old one was too well solved to make a good repeat special week, but it would be very hard to argue that the with-Arbor version was better.
Personally, I feel the Noid made for a better format than Dryad Arbor, since people couldn't run Noid as their win condition. Also, having to beat more than one goldfish made it hard to engineer something to only be able to win against that one deck.
Less elegant, but more functional.
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Two Card Blind (2CB) is a Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit two-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly two cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
1.5 Whenever a player could play a land card, that player may put a basic land card from outside the game onto the battlefield.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 2CB moderator (Personman).
2.1a. The moderator informs players of mistakes in a timely manner.
2.1b. A player may submit multiple decks, but only the most recent is counted.
2.1c. If a player's final deck is illegal, that deck is entered in that week's tournament.
2.2. A player may not submit a deck that can – against any deck – win the game or force one or more cards in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's first turn.
2.3. A deck may include any number of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1).
2.4. Each player plays one match, consisting of two games, against each other player. Each player is the starting player once per match. Results assume optimal play and perfect information.
2.4a. If no player can win, the game is a draw.
2.4b. A player that can't win or draw plays to extend the game.
2.5. Points determine tournament standings. Players are ranked, first to last, in order of decreasing number of points.
2.5a. For each match, a player earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. Matches in which each player wins one game and loses one game are worth only 2 points per player, rather than 3.
2.5b. A table of match results is posted each round. Its rows represent players and its columns represent opponents. Match results reflect the combined result of both games played in a match; 3 is a game win, 1 a drawn game, and 0 a game loss. A player's points are listed at the end of his or her row.
2.5c. If I receive too many decks, players will be randomly divided into heats.
3. Banned List
3.1 The following cards are banned. Any deck that includes a card on this list is illegal.
* Fastbond
This week is a special week:
Backbuild
The deadline is next Wednesday, 10/7/09, at midnight EST.
I should 3-3 with jordman--when he's on the play, he Mages my Balance and Pulses my Genju (Genju is not like Rancor).
Also, I think I 2-2 with psly4mne, as I have to just Balance away his hand, which wrecks my own board, but at least I can replay Genju to block indefinitely.
But: I definitely do 6-0 FSI's Lavalanche deck, as it is SLOW while I goldfish turn 6.
I guess I feel like Genju is worse than The Rack in The Balance Deck--oh well.
I look forward to backbuild, though I am concerned that the baseline requirement is too easy.
My blog.
Not necessarily. See, for example, what happened in 5CB when Mogg tried something similar.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I can always get to two lands and get Vampire Hexmage down. At this point, if he chooses creature, we both sac and he'll die later from Dark Depths. Choosing land doesn't do anything as I'll just sac a swamp. Then, I'll eventually play Dark Depths, wait until after his upkeep, then sac Hexmage. I can then attack for 20 on my next turn.
I turned VM4L v. Psly4mne blue, as Psly4mne is at 2 when he wins.
My blog.
Well yes, sure. How is that bad?
I don't think you've thought about this enough!
I don't about 2CB, but the exact opposite is true in 5CB. The requirement to deal with a Dryad Arbor removed most of the (viable) interesting decks and left a pretty inflexible requirement to build around the enemy's Arbor.
Look at the results of the most recent backbuild (with Arbor) and compare to the last season one backbuild (without Arbor).
Mogg made a good call in changing the format, because the old one was too well solved to make a good repeat special week, but it would be very hard to argue that the with-Arbor version was better.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
My blog.
Consider all of yourselves warned
Fattycakes Zombie of Clan Limited
Heh... this is exactly what I thought things would play out. How amusing. I'll shut up about bannings for the moment, though I still think they are necessary. They would allow creative decks to actually stand a chance against the so-called "net-decks" (nevermind that this entire format exists only in internet-based forums...).
One correction:
I should 6-0 Viking. He can never get to 2 mana, and can only sacrifice lands, thus he never gets a chance to activate Genju or cast Balance.
Anyway, on to next week! I don't think Arbor should be part of this backbuild. It was a nice change of pace, but it shouldn't be the standard. And I've never tried backbuild in 2CB. Having ready access to infinite lands actually changes the format quite a bit. Very excited to see what people come up with.
Aw damn, I definitely thought Braids was more like Smokestack so I could just throw away Genju and Balance your board. Also, I was hoping somebody would with play with The Rack again this week, as Genju races Rack.
I am unsure how my match vs psly4mne goes 3-3 (and is extra interesting) rather than 2-2. I can't beat Restore Balance, so I have to use real Balance to take it out of his hand--he sacrifices his lands to set me back, Genju returns to my hand, and by the time I get it online, it's just about time to start blocking with it every turn.
They do change as a result of DragonDart's correction though. Good job tricking both me and Psly4mne on that one.
Y'know, *I* ran backbuild too.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=127923&highlight=backbuild
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=128910&highlight=backbuild
Personally, I feel the Noid made for a better format than Dryad Arbor, since people couldn't run Noid as their win condition. Also, having to beat more than one goldfish made it hard to engineer something to only be able to win against that one deck.
Less elegant, but more functional.