I changed starting life to 100, because I thought it would open more options and provide a good starting point for thinking about the format. In retrospect, this was a mistake. With some bannings, that format could work, but it is not as significantly different from normal rounds as I'd like. For the second round of the special format, I'm doing something that I don't usually do: I'm changing the rules (or rather, eliminating some). Starting life will be 20 – as normal – and Mesmeric Fiend is no longer banned.
Also, I'm still looking for 1-2 people to moderate 5CB after the next round.
Results
This week's format was:
100 Turns
A player may not submit a deck that can – against any deck – win the game or force more than one card in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's 100th turn.
FuriouslySleepingIdea is the September Player of the Month..
Rules
0. Overview
Five Card Blind (5CB) is a weekly Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit five-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly five cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 5CB moderator (Mogg).
2.1a. The moderator acknowledges submissions and informs players of mistakes in a timely manner.
2.1b. A player may submit multiple decks, but only the most recent is counted.
2.1c. If a player's final deck is illegal, the moderator replaces cards in the deck with Library of Alexandria until the deck is made legal. Replacements are made such that the revised deck functions as closely as possible to the original.
2.2. A player may not submit a deck that can – against any deck – win the game or force more than one card in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn.
For example, Cabal Therapy + Swamp x4 is illegal because an opponent's deck may have duplicates of a card, but Cabal Therapy + Subterranean Hangar x4 is legal because Cabal Therapy can't be played until the third turn.
2.3. A deck may include any number of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1), with the exception of the following banned cards:
2.4. Each player plays one match, consisting of two games, against each other player. Each player is the starting player once per match. Results assume optimal play and perfect information.
2.4a. If no player can win, the game is a draw.
2.4b. A player that can't win or draw plays to extend the game.
2.5. Points determine tournament standings. Players are ranked, first to last, in order of decreasing number of points.
2.5a. For each match, a player earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. However, a player that wins one game and loses the other earns only 2 points.
2.5b. A table of match results is posted each round. Its rows represent players and its columns represent opponents. Match results reflect the combined result of both games played in a match; 3 is a game win, 1 a drawn game, and 0 a game loss. A player's points are listed at the end of his or her row.
2.6. In rounds of twenty or more players, players are divided randomly into equally-sized heats of n players, where n is the number of players divided by ten (rounded down).
For example, twenty-five players are divided into heats of twelve and thirteen.
2.6a. A player only plays against players in his heat.
2.6b. The top four players of each heat advance to the finals, where they play again (with the same decks).
2.6c. Tiebreakers for heats are as follows: number of matches in which a player wins both games, number of game wins, points scored against higher-scoring decks. If a tie is unresolved, both tied decks advance.
2.7. The player with the most POTM points over the course of a month becomes the Player of the Month.
2.7a. A month includes all rounds for which decks are due during that month.
2.7b. The top eight players of rounds of less than twenty players and all players in the finals of rounds of twenty or more players earn POTM points according to their rank; The player with the highest score earns 1 POTM point for each player in the finals, and each subsequent player earns one point less than the previous player. Tied players earn equal points but are counted as separate players when calculating the points of other players.
2.7c. Tiebreakers for top eight are as follows: number of matches in which a player wins both games, number of game wins, points scored against higher-scoring decks. If a tie is unresolved, both tied decks are counted.
A player may not submit a deck that can – against any deck – win the game or force more than one card in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's 100th turn.
Deck Submission Deadline:
Friday, October 2nd, 2:00 pm PST.
Please use this thread to discuss any aspect of 5CB. Also, consider a subscription to 5CB. Subscribed players who have not already submitted a deck receive a reminder PM about two days before deadline. PM me to subscribe.
I seem to be the only Servant deck that chose Pyroblast instead of Red Elemental Blast. Is there something I'm missing about REB being superior? I always thought that fact that Pyroblast allows it to target any spell or permanent gave it a small edge over REB. I know 5CB isn't the same as regular Magic, but in what situations make REB superior (if it indeed is)?
I seem to be the only Servant deck that chose Pyroblast instead of Red Elemental Blast. Is there something I'm missing about REB being superior? I always thought that fact that Pyroblast allows it to target any spell or permanent gave it a small edge over REB. I know 5CB isn't the same as regular Magic, but in what situations make REB superior (if it indeed is)?
Tradition, basically. Pyroblast is slightly better, but not enough to matter in any games I've seen.
The first thing to say is that the match FSI vs. domogrue is inaccurate; Chalice turns the match 3-3, not 6-0. This affects both the finals as they currently stand, and the Heat 2 results. In particular, *if* the Top 8 qualifiers are correct, then the "tiebreaker" that puts Lich's Mirror ahead of of Painter is gone and the final result is a six-way tie.
The second thing has to to with that annoying little *if* above: bmh seems to have his name on two decks. Is this a typo, or must the older submission be dropped? If a deck of his is to be dropped (and shame on him for messing things up), it would affect the Top 8 as outlined below.
CASE 1: If his Heat 1 deck is dropped, there is no change: the four Painter decks in that heat still take the top four places.
CASE 2: If his Heat 2 deck is dropped, then there are serious ramifications. Looking at Heat 2 with domo vs FSI corrected, the top of the heat (with bmh's deck still included) is as follows, assuming the accuracy of the rest of the scoring.
Then Mmq replaces ced in the finals. Since Mmq goes 0-6 vs Painter, 6-0 vs FSI's Lich Mirror, and 3-3 vs domogrue (I definitely didn't check this one, as thinking about Stax makes my head hurt), the finals are nicely stratified:
Painter in first, for having all draws except one win
domogrue next, for having all draws (gogo Chalice)
FSI's Lich Mirror next, for having all draws except one loss
Mmq in eighth for having just one win, one draw
-----------
Deckbuilding next week will at least require more creative thinking, as creatures with positive power are almost uniformly illegal. Without having actually done any research yet, I hope that the range of viable win conditions isn't so narrow that we see something like a repeat of this week. But I suppose it rewards those who put in the time to find the objectively best deck, which isn't all bad.
I guess dethwing got in there before me on the domogrue vs. FSI match.
@Shogun: why does Pyroblast's capacity for targeting non-blue permanents/spells make it better than REB? Sure, it kills cards like Skulking Ghost... which was basically illegal in this round to begin with. I actually see one disadvantage in running Pyroblast in that when you choose the "destroy blue permanent" mode, it can be misdirected (to, say, a land) even if there is only one blue permanent on the board.
The second thing has to to with that annoying little *if* above: bmh seems to have his name on two decks. Is this a typo, or must the older submission be dropped? If a deck of his is to be dropped (and shame on him for messing things up), it would affect the Top 8 as outlined below.
Good catch. Thankfully - for simplicity - the first deck is dropped. bmh sent the Stack deck a couple days later, and I just didn't realize he had already entered a deck. I'll make the corrections now.
Now that I think about it, is there a rule about which heat should be larger when the total number of players isn't divided evenly by the appropriate number of heats? It seems like Heat 1 "should" be the larger one, which would cause all sorts of problems for dropping bmh's Heat 1 deck. Well I personally wouldn't really mind if this one just got pushed under the rug, as it's a real headache...
Blood Moon beats Niv, and the Flaming Gambit deck can beat a goldfish before turn 60 by playing first turn Braid of Fire and playing and flashing back Flaming Gambit for 50 on consecutive turns.
And congrats to FuriouslySleepingIdea on the PotM win! Not so much the dramatic finish we were expecting this round, but well deserved for the ingenious Open the Vaults tech in 5CB #97. (Also, that's what I get for submitting lazy.dec last round!)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
yes, if your deck is island, Rackx4, but most competitive rack decks involvove foring your opponent into a lose lose situation. have fun coming up with that over 100 turns. AKA be prepared to draw alot
1) from what i understand, Mogg, your main issue with being a moderator is the fact that you have to submit so early
2) from what i assume; most people choose not to volunteer to be mods because they don't want to have to work out the results / have the responsibility etc
Would it be concievable to have an "open" system; where the only job of the moderator is to recieve decks and then post them in the forum; after which we all work together to work out the results. I mean, i usually check through my own matches anyway, and if everyone checks their own + 2 other peoples, we have a very effective error catching system. The "moderator" would still have to select their decks early if they wanted to participate, but they could be selected from a panel of regulars on a rotation basis.
Another option we could look into would be a blind submission process so that noone needs to submit early; although this means that invalid decks may not be able to be resubmitted at all.
Are there any other forum facilities we aren't tapping into?
Main issue is actually the time it takes. It just didn't seem like the right thing to emphasize. At this point, ced395, lOput, and bateleur have agreed to help. bateleur's schedule is such that it would be difficult for him to help as more than a fill-in if something comes up.
I thought that having four moderators (each doing one week a month) would work.
Your idea could work, but consider that there are probably as many players who don't regularly check their scores as those that do. Also, consider the satisfaction of immediate gratification (seeing the scores at once - though it's lessened by corrections to what I post, and the fact that it takes me a while to put the scores up).
I would be open to doing it for a trial period of two weeks. After that time, we should evaluate how well it's running and whether we want to continue to try that or whether alternate moderators would be a better solution.
@shteev: Long time, no see. I hope you'll submit a deck.
If I understand you correctly, you misunderstand the rule restricting decks that can win before an opponent's 100th turn. An opponent always makes the optimal play. That could involve putting himself in a position where The Rack would kill him before his 100th turn.
But you can't submit a deck that can win before an opponent's 100th turn regardless of what they play. In other words, a deck can be legal or illegal, but the 5CB rules do not prohibit plays (they did at one point, but not currently).
I noticed I forgot to clarify in the opening post whether or not Zendikar was legal for this round. Zendikar is legal. I hope this isn't a problem for anyone who has already started considering decks.
yes, if your deck is island, Rackx4, but most competitive rack decks involvove foring your opponent into a lose lose situation. have fun coming up with that over 100 turns. AKA be prepared to draw alot
It's easy! Just have one win condition that takes a kajillion turns, and Rack. If they want to play magic, they die sooner. It's legal 'cause they can choose to play nothing; it's perfectly legal to make it so your opponent *isn't* going to win before 100 turns have passed, you just can't deliver the killing blow before then.
(and I know it's been answered, I like my way of putting it better )
I've previously thought of MMQ's 'crowdsourced' moderation idea, and think it would be pretty cool if it worked. However, we'd definitely not want to limit entry to those who have the time to do a lot of checking - I think you'd have to indicate the amount of work you're willing to do when you submit, and then the mod can divide up the labor/beg people to take on a little more.
I haven't had nearly as much time to devote to thinking about 5CB as I'd like recently (and it shows in my results... ;_; ), but I'd like to be able to submit even in weeks when I can't spare the time to check all my matches (let alone several other people's). In general though, I would be willing to do my bit when time allows.
Besides, distributed results processing of this kind has been tried before and doesn't work well. The main trouble is that the processing gets done over a period of many days and then corrections come in really slowly and it can easily take a whole week just to reach the results. Also, some people just never get around to doing their processing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I noticed I forgot to clarify in the opening post whether or not Zendikar was legal for this round. Zendikar is legal. I hope this isn't a problem for anyone who has already started considering decks.
How so? I mean, how is it better than Nezumi Shortfang, which is faster, provides more disruption, can block, and doesn't care if you're dealt a bit of damage?
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Unless they play Karakas with Leyline of Singularity... in which case you can't make more than one Angel token, and single tokens get owned by Karakas...
I changed starting life to 100, because I thought it would open more options and provide a good starting point for thinking about the format. In retrospect, this was a mistake. With some bannings, that format could work, but it is not as significantly different from normal rounds as I'd like. For the second round of the special format, I'm doing something that I don't usually do: I'm changing the rules (or rather, eliminating some). Starting life will be 20 – as normal – and Mesmeric Fiend is no longer banned.
Also, I'm still looking for 1-2 people to moderate 5CB after the next round.
Results
This week's format was:
100 Turns
A player may not submit a deck that can – against any deck – win the game or force more than one card in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's 100th turn.
Players start the game with 100 life.
Helix Pinnacle and Mesmeric Fiend are banned.
1 Mogg – Black Lotus / Channel / Decree of Silence / Lich's Mirror / Rishadan Cutpurse
Lich's Mirror routinely evades me when I'm planning a round, then resurfaces when I realize how awesome it is.
2 WhammWhamme – Black Lotus / Blood Moon / Foil / Goblin Vandal / Volcanic Island
Blood Moon was good for some draws. Vandal might have been better as a simple evasive creature.
3 bateleur – City of Traitors / Mox Ruby / Painter's Servant / Red Elemental Blast / Soldevi Digger
That this deck showed up in such a high percentage reflects poorly on how I changed the format, but it fascinates me nevertheless. I'm not sure a deck has ever appeared so often in one round.
4 Shogun17 – City of Traitors / Mox Ruby / Painter's Servant / Pyroblast / Soldevi Digger
See #3.
5 lOput – Cursecatcher / Daze / The Rack / Thoughtseize / Underground Sea
Rack was a good way to add pressure, but this deck struggles for lack of a way to respond to anything.
6 VikingMetal4L – City of Traitors / Mox Ruby / Painter's Servant / Red Elemental Blast / Soldevi Digger
See #3.
7 semioldguy – Aftershock / Banefire / Mercadian Bazaar / Sheltered Valley / The Rack
Sheltered Valley is a good card in this format. It's the reason I decided I needed to play something that could destroy lands.
8 Niv – Golgari Rot Farm / Plains / Silhana Ledgewalker / Vindicate / Vindicate
I was moderately surprised this didn't do better. Generally, though, playing nothing for two turns leaves your opponent to walk all over you.
9 Krashbot – City of Traitors / Mox Ruby / Painter's Servant / Red Elemental Blast / Soldevi Digger
See #3.
10 Personman – Blinkmoth Nexus / Karakas / Leyline of Singularity / Mana Tithe / The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Mana Tithe suffers from being unplayable if you choose to attack – somewhat necessary to win.
11 Dogod – Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Braid of Fire / Devour in Shadow / Flaming Gambit
Aside from one kill spell, nothing until turn 102? That assumes a lot will go right.
X| 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 0 1 2[/U]
1| X 0 3 3 3 3 6 6 3 4 6 | 32
2| 6 X 1 1 3 1 2 6 1 6 2 | 28
3| 3 4 X 3 3 3 6 6 3 6 6 | 38
4| 3 4 3 X 3 3 6 6 3 6 6 | 38
5| 3 3 3 3 X 3 2 6 3 2 6 | 28
6| 3 4 3 3 3 X 6 6 3 6 6 | 38
7| 0 2 0 0 2 0 X 0 0 6 6 | 16
8| 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 X 0 2 6 | 14
9| 3 4 3 3 3 3 6 6 X 6 6 | 38
0| 1 0 0 0 2 0 0 2 0 X 0 | 5
1| 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 X | 8
1 FuriouslySleepingIdea – Black Lotus / Channel / Decree of Silence / Lich's Mirror / Rishadan Cutpurse
I'm amused that this did worse than Painter in both pods, yet won in the finals. 6-0's are good.
2 Xyre – Black Lotus / Coercion / Epic Struggle / Rushwood Grove / Springjack Pasture
Coercion was strong, but Silhana Ledgewalker might have accomplished your win condition in fewer cards.
3 bman65 – Ajani Vengeant / Boros Garrison / City of Traitors / Powder Keg / Soldevi Digger
Powder Keg was generally redundant, but the exact turn 101 win was impressive.
4 jordman – Angel's Grace / Banefire / City of Traitors / Dwarven Hold / Isochron Scepter
Not losing /= winning. Banefire was easy to disrupt.
5 joedredd – Mountain / Rain of Gore / Razorfin Hunter / Thoughtseize / Underground Sea
Rain of Gore might be narrow, but it was neat to see how it shut down Ajani.
6 ced395 – Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Blood Moon / Preacher / Yawgmoth's Will
The resilient deck was a good call. Too bad Painter's Servant doesn't care which side it's on.
7 Halinn – Calciform Pools / Energy Field / Plains / Sustaining Spirit / Zephid's Embrace
Might do better next week.
8 domogrue – Chalice of the Void / Crucible of Worlds / Dryad Arbor / Mishra's Workshop / Smokestack
The Crucible engine was good. Chalice wasn't amazing – but solid. It gave you the edge over bmh's Stax.
9 bmh – Conjurer's Bauble / Crucible of Worlds / Dryad Arbor / Mishra's Workshop / Smokestack
Bauble was slightly unnecessary. Crucible + Arbor gives you decent recursion without it.
10 dethwing – City of Traitors / Mox Ruby / Painter's Servant / Red Elemental Blast / Soldevi Digger
See Heat 1 #3.
11 Madmanquail – Conjurer's Bauble / Ferropede / Leyline of the Void / Mishra's Workshop / Plague Boiler
You generally had to destroy some of your own stuff with Boiler, and Bauble did little to get it all back.
12 ALEX Ryugami – Basking Rootwalla / Foil / Leyline of Singularity / Misdirection / Tropical Island
This would have been much better if you could play Rootwalla and hold Foil. Also, I don't know what Leyline should do here.
X| [U]1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1[/U]
1| X 3 6 6 3 6 6 6 6 3 0 2 | 44
2| 3 X 3 4 3 0 6 0 0 3 3 0 | 20
3| 0 3 X 6 2 2 6 3 3 0 2 6 | 30
4| 0 1 0 X 2 2 6 0 0 0 0 2 | 13
5| 3 3 2 2 X 0 6 1 0 0 2 2 | 19
6| 0 6 2 2 6 X 6 3 6 0 2 6 | 38
7| 0 0 0 0 0 0 X 0 0 0 0 2 | 2
8| 0 6 3 6 4 3 6 X 2 3 3 6 | 38
9| 0 6 3 6 6 0 6 2 X 0 3 6 | 36
0| 3 3 6 6 6 6 6 3 6 X 6 6 | 54
1| 6 3 2 6 2 2 6 3 3 0 X 6 | 36
2| 2 6 0 2 2 0 2 0 0 0 0 X | 14
Finals
1 bateleur – City of Traitors / Mox Ruby / Painter's Servant / Red Elemental Blast / Soldevi Digger
2 Shogun17 – City of Traitors / Mox Ruby / Painter's Servant / Pyroblast / Soldevi Digger
3 VikingMetal4L – City of Traitors / Mox Ruby / Painter's Servant / Red Elemental Blast / Soldevi Digger
4 Krashbot – City of Traitors / Mox Ruby / Painter's Servant / Red Elemental Blast / Soldevi Digger
5 FuriouslySleepingIdea – Black Lotus / Channel / Decree of Silence / Lich's Mirror / Rishadan Cutpurse
6 ced395 – Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Blood Moon / Preacher / Yawgmoth's Will
7 domogrue – Chalice of the Void / Crucible of Worlds / Dryad Arbor / Mishra's Workshop / Smokestack
8 dethwing – City of Traitors / Mox Ruby / Painter's Servant / Red Elemental Blast / Soldevi Digger
X| [U]1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8[/U]
1| X 3 3 3 3 6 3 3 | 18
2| 3 X 3 3 3 6 3 3 | 18
3| 3 3 X 3 3 6 3 3 | 18
4| 3 3 3 X 3 6 3 3 | 18
5| 3 3 3 3 X 6 3 3 | 18
6| 0 0 0 0 0 X 3 0 | 8
7| 3 3 3 3 3 3 X 3 | 14
8| 3 3 3 3 3 6 3 X | 18
1 bateleur (1): 18
1 Shogun17 (2): 18
1 VikingMetal4L (3): 18
1 Krashbot (4): 18
1 FuriouslySleepingIdea (5): 18
1 dethwing (8): 18
7 domogrue (7): 14
8 ced395 (6): 8
bateleur, dethwing, FuriouslySleepingIdea, Krashbot, Shogun17, and VikingMetal4L win 5CB #100.
POTM Standings
1 FuriouslySleepingIdea: 25
2 bateleur: 24
3 dethwing: 17
4 ced395: 16
4 Mogg: 16
6 VikingMetal4L: 13
7 Krashbot: 8
7 Shogun17: 8
9 bman65: 7
9 Madmanquail: 7
11 IBJeremy: 5
11 Personman: 5
13 jordman: 4
13 WhammWhamme: 4
15domogrue: 2
16 lOput: 1
16 semioldguy: 1
FuriouslySleepingIdea is the September Player of the Month..
0. Overview
Five Card Blind (5CB) is a weekly Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit five-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly five cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 5CB moderator (Mogg).
2.2. A player may not submit a deck that can – against any deck – win the game or force more than one card in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn.
2.3. A deck may include any number of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1), with the exception of the following banned cards:
2.4. Each player plays one match, consisting of two games, against each other player. Each player is the starting player once per match. Results assume optimal play and perfect information.
2.5. Points determine tournament standings. Players are ranked, first to last, in order of decreasing number of points.
2.6. In rounds of twenty or more players, players are divided randomly into equally-sized heats of n players, where n is the number of players divided by ten (rounded down).
2.7. The player with the most POTM points over the course of a month becomes the Player of the Month.
Season 1
March 2005
Round 1 r_x, Greebo, zorbop
Round 2 Ankh-Morpokian
Round 3 Greebo
Round 4 Chimpanzee
POTM: Greebo
April 2005
Round 5 help im a bug, Draco9_1_1 (Only Creatures)
Round 6 Greebo (Only Creatures)
Round 7 spuzzem king
Round 8 bateleur
POTM: spuzzem king
May 2005
Round 9 Feyd_Ruin (Only Multicolor)
Round 10 jcsuperstar (Only Multicolor)
Round 11 Lone Warrior
Round 12 Wanderer359
POTM: WhammWhamme
June 2005
Round 13 Silver Seraph, Greebo (Titania's Song)
Round 14 WhammWhamme (Titania's Song)
Round 15 Tahn (Artist Tribute)
Round 16 Lone Warrior (Artist Tribute)
POTM: bateleur, Greebo
July 2005
Round 17 Shadowlord
Round 18 bateleur
Round 19 Shadowlord (Pay 19: Add 1)
Round 20 Greebo (Pay 19: Add 1)
POTM: Shadowlord
August 2005
Round 21 Greebo
Round 22 Greebo
Round 23 spuzzem king (One-Million Life)
Round 24 WhammWhamme (One-Million Life)
POTM: Greebo
September 2005
Round 25 Chimpanzee, Shadowlord
Round 26 dasheiff
Round 27 Chimpanzee (Orrery)
Round 28 Halinn (Orrery)
POTM: jcsuperstar
October 2005
Round 29 Beaker
Round 30 Feuerdrache, Wanderer359
Round 31 r_x (Dream Halls)
Round 32 Puzzle (Dream Halls)
POTM: Chimpanzee
November 2005
Round 33 bateleur
Round 34 Shadowlord
Round 35 jcsuperstar (Backbuild)
Round 36 jcsuperstar (Backbuild)
POTM: bateleur
December 2005
Round 37 bateleur
Round 38 Wanderer359
Round 39 WhammWhamme (Ban a Card)
Round 40 dasheiff, Lone Warrior (Ban a Card)
POTM: Beaker
January 2006
Round 41 Lone Warrior
Round 42 Silver Seraph
Round 43 Trojan (1984)
Round 44 Beaker (1984)
POTM: Lone Warrior
February 2006
Round 45 bateleur
Round 46 Halinn
Round 47 bateleur (7 Life)
Round 48 Chimpanzee (7 Life)
POTM: bateleur
March 2006
Round 49 armlx
Round 50 bateleur
Round 51 armlx (Leyline)
Round 52 Chimpanzee, Greebo (Leyline)
POTM: armlx
April 2006
Round 53 jcsuperstar
Round 54 armlx
Round 55 bateleur (Epic)
Round 56 Xyre (Epic)
POTM: jcsuperstar
May 2006
Round 57 jcsuperstar
Round 58 Pingele_Pats (Banathon)
Round 59 Amadi (Banathon)
Round 60 Solitaire (Banathon)
POTM: Pingele_Pats
June 2006
Round 61 Farik (One-Million Life)
Round 62 Wrath_of_Dog, zu_Faul (Leyline)
Round 63 Beaker (7 Life)
POTM: silicon
July 2006
Round 64 Pingele_Pats (Multi-Set)
Round 65 WhammWhamme, zu_Faul (Extended)
POTM: None
September 2007
Round 1 (Introduction)
Round 2 andelijah
POTM: None
October 2007
Round 3 Mogg
Round 4 Chimpanzee (Lorwyn)
Round 5 Meat Popsicle (Repeat Letters)
Round 6 Mogg (10 Life)
POTM: Mogg
November 2007
Round 7 Death_By_Beebles
Round 8 jcsuperstar (Mindslaver)
Round 9 Mogg (Thanksgiving Special)
Round 10 Mogg (Thanksgiving Special, Part Two)
POTM: Mogg
December 2007
Round 11 carrion pigeons
Round 12 Mogg (Later Alphabet)
Round 13 Mogg (Backbuild)
Round 14 Xyre (Backbuild)
POTM: Mogg
January 2008
Round 15 armlx
Round 16 Chimpanzee (Auras)
Round 17 Mogg (Doubling Season)
Round 18 carrion pigeons, Chimpanzee (Doubling Season)
Round 19 WhammWhamme (31 Bans)
POTM: Mogg
February 2008
Round 20 Chimpanzee
Round 21 Mogg (Combat)
Round 22 Mogg (Combat)
Round 23 Knowledge
POTM: Mogg
March 2008
Round 24 Mogg (Consecutive Names)
Round 25 Chimpanzee (Consecutive Names)
Round 26 The Mad Tapper
Round 27 The Mad Tapper
POTM: The Mad Tapper
April 2008
Round 28 The Mad Tapper (DC5)
Round 29 jcsuperstar (DC5)
Round 30 jcsuperstar (< 20)
Round 31 bateleur
POTM: bateleur
May 2008
Round 32 WhammWhamme (Leyline)
Round 33 Silver Seraph (Mana Market)
Round 34 bateleur (Helm of Awakening and Mirari)
Round 35 Alfred (Pre-entered Decks)
POTM: bateleur
June 2008
Round 36 bateleur, YuanTi
Round 37 WhammWhamme (Favorite Colors)
Round 38 YuanTi (Lotus)
Round 39 Mogg (Mogg Week)
POTM: WhammWhamme
July 2008
Round 40 bateleur (Mulligans)
Round 41 Mogg
Round 42 Chimpanzee
Round 43 ced395 (Even)
POTM: Mogg
August 2008
Round 44 WhammWhamme (Odd)
Round 45 Farik (No Bans)
Round 46 Mogg
POTM: Error1
September 2008
Round 47 ghweiss (Low-Scoring)
Round 48 theeguy (Backbuild, Part Two)
Round 49 Mogg
Round 50 Mogg (50 Life)
Round 51 Error1 (Landline)
POTM: Mogg
October 2008
Round 52 Shogun17 (Exploration)
Round 53 MT_Gunn (Multicolor Discount)
Round 54 Silkenfist (2-2)
Round 55 bateleur, WhammWhamme
POTM: Error1
November 2008
Round 56 Error1 (Colorless Creatures)
Round 57 Knowledge, Silkenfist (Legendary Creatures)
POTM: None
December 2008
Round 58 (Introduction)
Round 59 Halinn
Round 60 Halinn
Round 61 ced395 (Christmas Special)
Round 62 MyNameIsFourteen (New Year's Special)
POTM: None
January 2009
Round 63 Mogg
Round 64 Mogg (Nemesis)
Round 65 MyNameIsFourteen (Nemesis)
Round 66 Mogg
POTM: Mogg
February 2009
Round 67 Chimpanzee
Round 68 MyNameIsFourteen (Lovely Letters)
Round 69 Naphtali (Lovely Letters, Part 2)
Round 70 bateleur
POTM: bateleur
March 2009
Round 71 ced395, Chimpanzee
Round 72 ced395 (Activated)
Round 73 WhammWhamme (Activated)
Round 74 bateleur
POTM: Chimpanzee
April 2009
Round 75 Xyre
Round 76 Mogg, ngollon (Landline-Orrery)
Round 77 Mogg (Landline-Orrery)
Round 78 Mogg
POTM: Mogg
May 2009
Round 79 bateleur
Round 80 ced395 (Upwelling)
Round 81 Mogg (Upwelling)
Round 82 Halinn
Round 83 r_x_
New Player Round math_geek
POTM: Mogg
June 2009
Round 84 Kekekekeke (Block Party)
Round 85 FuriouslySleepingIdea (Block Party)
Round 86 Mogg
Round 87 Farik
POTM: Mogg
July 2009
Round 88 bateleur, dethwing (Infinite Cards)
Round 89 Farik, lOput (Infinite Cards)
Round 90 Farik, Mogg, Personman
Round 91 Madmanquail
Round 92 bateleur (Backbuild, Part Three)
POTM: Madmanquail
August 2009
Round 93 DragonDart (Backbuild, Part Three)
Round 94 lOput
Round 95 domogrue
Round 96 Mogg (Dream Halls)
POTM: ced395
September 2009
Round 97 Mogg (Dream Halls)
Round 98 ced395
Round 99 FuriouslySleepingIdea
Round 100 bateleur, dethwing, FuriouslySleepingIdea, Krashbot, Shogun17, VikingMetal4L
POTM: FuriouslySleepingIdea
Rounds
Mogg: 26
bateleur: 19
Chimpanzee: 12
WhammWhamme: 10
Greebo: 8
jcsuperstar: 8
ced395: 6
Farik: 5
Halinn: 5
armlx: 4
Lone Warrior: 4
Shadowlord: 4
Beaker: 3
FuriouslySleepingIdea: 3
MyNameIsFourteen: 3
r_x_: 3
Silver Seraph: 3
The Mad Tapper: 3
Wanderer359: 3
Xyre: 3
carrion pigeons: 2
dasheiff: 2
dethwing: 2
Error1: 2
Knowledge: 2
lOput: 2
Pingele_Pats: 2
Shogun17: 2
Silkenfist: 2
spuzzem king: 2
YuanTi: 2
zu_Faul: 2
Alfred: 1
Amadi: 1
andelijah: 1
Ankh-Morpokian: 1
Death By Beebles: 1
domogrue: 1
Draco9_1_1: 1
DragonDart: 1
Feuerdrache: 1
Feyd_Ruin: 1
ghweiss: 1
help im a bug: 1
Kekekekeke: 1
Krashbot: 1
Madmanquail: 1
Meat Popsicle: 1
MT Gunn: 1
Naphtali: 1
ngollon: 1
Personman: 1
Puzzle: 1
Solitaire: 1
Tahn: 1
theeguy: 1
Trojan: 1
VikingMetal4L: 1
Wrath_of_Dog: 1
zorbop: 1
POTM
Mogg: 11
bateleur: 6
Greebo: 3
Chimpanzee: 2
Error1: 2
jcsuperstar: 2
WhammWhamme: 2
armlx: 1
Beaker: 1
ced395: 1
FuriouslySleepingIdea: 1
Lone Warrior: 1
Madmanquail: 1
math_geek: 1
Pingele_Pats: 1
Shadowlord: 1
silicon: 1
spuzzem king: 1
The Mad Tapper: 1
Dom Camus
Five Card Blind
Nick Chandler-Klein
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 1)
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 2)
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 3)
Alex Hoffman
Going Blind: A First Look at Lands
Going Blind: A Non-Basic Approach
Going Blind: Metagaming – Being Overly Analytical
Going Blind: Metagaming #2 – All Decked Out
Going Blind: XCB Metagaming – A Prolonged Conclusion
Forum Articles
Madmanquail
5CB Strategy
Mogg
5CB Strategy
A player may not submit a deck that can – against any deck – win the game or force more than one card in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's 100th turn.
Helix Pinnacle is banned.
Deck Submission Deadline:
Friday, October 2nd, 2:00 pm PST.
Please use this thread to discuss any aspect of 5CB. Also, consider a subscription to 5CB. Subscribed players who have not already submitted a deck receive a reminder PM about two days before deadline. PM me to subscribe.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Tradition, basically. Pyroblast is slightly better, but not enough to matter in any games I've seen.
@dethwing: Fixed.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
The first thing to say is that the match FSI vs. domogrue is inaccurate; Chalice turns the match 3-3, not 6-0. This affects both the finals as they currently stand, and the Heat 2 results. In particular, *if* the Top 8 qualifiers are correct, then the "tiebreaker" that puts Lich's Mirror ahead of of Painter is gone and the final result is a six-way tie.
The second thing has to to with that annoying little *if* above: bmh seems to have his name on two decks. Is this a typo, or must the older submission be dropped? If a deck of his is to be dropped (and shame on him for messing things up), it would affect the Top 8 as outlined below.
CASE 1: If his Heat 1 deck is dropped, there is no change: the four Painter decks in that heat still take the top four places.
CASE 2: If his Heat 2 deck is dropped, then there are serious ramifications. Looking at Heat 2 with domo vs FSI corrected, the top of the heat (with bmh's deck still included) is as follows, assuming the accuracy of the rest of the scoring.
54 - dethwing
40 - FSI
40 - domogrue
38 - ced
36 - Madmanquail
36 - bmh
Removing bmh's deck changes this to
48 - dethwing
34 - FSI
34 - domogrue
32 - ced
34 - Madmanquail
Then Mmq replaces ced in the finals. Since Mmq goes 0-6 vs Painter, 6-0 vs FSI's Lich Mirror, and 3-3 vs domogrue (I definitely didn't check this one, as thinking about Stax makes my head hurt), the finals are nicely stratified:
Painter in first, for having all draws except one win
domogrue next, for having all draws (gogo Chalice)
FSI's Lich Mirror next, for having all draws except one loss
Mmq in eighth for having just one win, one draw
-----------
Deckbuilding next week will at least require more creative thinking, as creatures with positive power are almost uniformly illegal. Without having actually done any research yet, I hope that the range of viable win conditions isn't so narrow that we see something like a repeat of this week. But I suppose it rewards those who put in the time to find the objectively best deck, which isn't all bad.
@Shogun: why does Pyroblast's capacity for targeting non-blue permanents/spells make it better than REB? Sure, it kills cards like Skulking Ghost... which was basically illegal in this round to begin with. I actually see one disadvantage in running Pyroblast in that when you choose the "destroy blue permanent" mode, it can be misdirected (to, say, a land) even if there is only one blue permanent on the board.
Good catch. Thankfully - for simplicity - the first deck is dropped. bmh sent the Stack deck a couple days later, and I just didn't realize he had already entered a deck. I'll make the corrections now.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
And congrats to FuriouslySleepingIdea on the PotM win! Not so much the dramatic finish we were expecting this round, but well deserved for the ingenious Open the Vaults tech in 5CB #97. (Also, that's what I get for submitting lazy.dec last round!)
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Main issue is actually the time it takes. It just didn't seem like the right thing to emphasize. At this point, ced395, lOput, and bateleur have agreed to help. bateleur's schedule is such that it would be difficult for him to help as more than a fill-in if something comes up.
I thought that having four moderators (each doing one week a month) would work.
Your idea could work, but consider that there are probably as many players who don't regularly check their scores as those that do. Also, consider the satisfaction of immediate gratification (seeing the scores at once - though it's lessened by corrections to what I post, and the fact that it takes me a while to put the scores up).
I would be open to doing it for a trial period of two weeks. After that time, we should evaluate how well it's running and whether we want to continue to try that or whether alternate moderators would be a better solution.
@shteev: Long time, no see. I hope you'll submit a deck.
If I understand you correctly, you misunderstand the rule restricting decks that can win before an opponent's 100th turn. An opponent always makes the optimal play. That could involve putting himself in a position where The Rack would kill him before his 100th turn.
But you can't submit a deck that can win before an opponent's 100th turn regardless of what they play. In other words, a deck can be legal or illegal, but the 5CB rules do not prohibit plays (they did at one point, but not currently).
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
It's easy! Just have one win condition that takes a kajillion turns, and Rack. If they want to play magic, they die sooner. It's legal 'cause they can choose to play nothing; it's perfectly legal to make it so your opponent *isn't* going to win before 100 turns have passed, you just can't deliver the killing blow before then.
(and I know it's been answered, I like my way of putting it better )
I haven't had nearly as much time to devote to thinking about 5CB as I'd like recently (and it shows in my results... ;_; ), but I'd like to be able to submit even in weeks when I can't spare the time to check all my matches (let alone several other people's). In general though, I would be willing to do my bit when time allows.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Decks:
WU[M]Hanna, Ship's NavigatorWU (MY CURRENT DECK)
On that note which cards do you guys think are possibly 5CB playable from Zendikar? I'm going with Magosi, the Waterveil, Nissa's Chosen, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Iona, Shield of Emeria, and World Queller.
How so? I mean, how is it better than Nezumi Shortfang, which is faster, provides more disruption, can block, and doesn't care if you're dealt a bit of damage?
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC