...in more ways than one. This was a reasonably successful theme week for what it was, with 13 players (unfortunately not including myself, as I was very stupid and looked at some deck submissions before thinking of my own) and only two pairs of duplicate entries. However, overall the format feels stifling, and I don't think much is to be gained by running it for another week. Overall, I think the lesson learned is that in 2CB at least, card-pool restrictions are not the way to go. Game rule modifications seem like a richer vein.
Anyway, here are the results, calculated this week essentially in their entirety by Psly4mne, for which thank you, sir. I hope to be more on top of things this week. He is also mostly responsible for the deck comments you see below, and for several improvements to the spreadsheet - 1-1s are now handled correctly automatically, and are thus listed as 3s, and the decks are listed in ranking order, obviating the need for a second sheet.
5. Psly4mne - 44 - Esper Charm / Deepfire Elemental Deepfire was slow, but it handled Trenches well. Esper Charm was better than Blightning in one case.
6. domogrue - 36 - Goblin Trenches / Blightning Trenches is a good kill card, but Blightning performed badly againt Error.
11. bmh - 20 - Trial // Error / Rakdos Augermage The discard from Augermage was usually too slow to matter. Sanity Gnawers would have been a little better.
I've integrated all previous 2CBs into different sheets in the same spreadsheet, and will continue to update this central, bookmarkable spreadsheet as the game progresses. I've also added a POTM sheet, which I will begin to work on this week. The first POTM race will not include 2CB #1, as there are still matches there that bmh never corrected *reproving throat-clear*.
Starting with this week POTM 2 will begin. It will consist of 2 regular weeks, and then 2 of the same theme week. Which theme that ends up being is something I heartily urge you to discuss in the threads up until then.
0. Overview
Two Card Blind (2CB) is a Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit two-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly two cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
1.5 Whenever a player could play a land card, that player may put a basic land card from outside the game onto the battlefield.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 2CB moderator (Personman).
2.1a. The moderator informs players of mistakes in a timely manner.
2.1b. A player may submit multiple decks, but only the most recent is counted.
2.1c. If a player's final deck is illegal, that deck is entered in that week's tournament.
2.2. A player may not submit a deck that can – against any deck – win the game or force one or more cards in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's first turn.
2.3. A deck may include any number of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1).
2.4. Each player plays one match, consisting of two games, against each other player. Each player is the starting player once per match. Results assume optimal play and perfect information.
2.4a. If no player can win, the game is a draw.
2.4b. A player that can't win or draw plays to extend the game.
2.5. Points determine tournament standings. Players are ranked, first to last, in order of decreasing number of points.
2.5a. For each match, a player earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. Matches in which each player wins one game and loses one game are worth only 2 points per player, rather than 3.
2.5b. A table of match results is posted each round. Its rows represent players and its columns represent opponents. Match results reflect the combined result of both games played in a match; 3 is a game win, 1 a drawn game, and 0 a game loss. A player's points are listed at the end of his or her row.
2.5c. If I receive too many decks, players will be randomly divided into heats.
3. Banned List
3.1 The following cards are banned. Any deck that includes a card on this list is illegal.
* Fastbond
This week is normal. Deadline is midnight EST Wednesday.
I am highly amused that both VM4L and I submitted exactly the same deck. :-D
I think this just shows how strong all-purpose 2-mana answers are in this format... especially when nobody can really hope to cast anything worthwhile until at least turn 2, and even then none of the threats are especially threatening. Also, I don't know that limiting the cardpool is a bad idea, but I think this particular method of doing so led to a format with one clearly dominant strategy (and little to no way around it).
If bmh hadn't changed his deck at the last minute, I would have won. My 5 3-3 ties cost me dearly.
Anyway, I think backbuild could be an interesting format. Offhand, I can think of a number of viable decks, no one of which beats (i.e., loses to) all the others.
JenError, Asura of Win! DragonDart: I too am quite amused after our exchange this morning. Taking a lesson from the week 2 winning deck, it's hard to beat quadratic growth + counterspell.
I guess ced found a deck that beats it. Here's another:
Pride of the Clouds
Uncounterable threat (e.g. Pyre Zombie, Spellbreaker Behemoth)
I'm a little upset by the results. All the decks which have error in them are illegal by your rules post from last week.
You said
You may not submit a deck that can force a card in an opponent's hand to change zones before their second turn.
When you are on the play, error can be cast before the beginning of your opponent's second turn. I was going to submit a deck with tidehollow sculler. I didn't because of this rule and submitted a less powerful deck because it was legal.
Please. Either don't make rules, or actually enforce the rules you make.
I was kicking around the idea of Iterative Backbuild.
The universe begins with a test deck. The deck that wins the round (by beating the test deck while getting the lowest score) is added to the set of test decks and the player who contributed the deck is awarded a point.
It might be feasible in 2CB.
Me, VikingMetal, Psly, bmh, and Personman all know each other irl but are not necessarily located all at the same place (for example, I have just moved to the south and am totally and utterly alone. Also, a month in and I lost my real life magic cards ;_;)
Wait guys, was I supposed to share this info? Did I just compromise mission integrity just now?
Hmm. Several people have sent decks assuming it's normal. So I guess we're going to go with that.
This actually kinda makes sense, since Psyl4mne offered to clean up the 2CB #1 results. Now we can have POTM #1 be 1-4, and start off POTM #2 in a normal-normal-special-special manner. That does mean that 5 of the first 6 2CBs are normal, but if people don't mind too much that seems ok. So go ahead and send in your decks!
Now that we've had 3 weeks, does anybody think it's time to start considering whether some cards ought to be banned. Meddling Mage/Tidehollow Sculler seem like the top contenders here, to me. And possibly Braids, since there are remarkably few ways to actually deal with her...
I don't know about The Rack. It is extremely fast and strong, but hasn't come out on top even once (though it's certainly knocked a lot of decks down). Balance seems stupidly powerful, but serves only as removal, and not as a threat in itself.
I did my best to fix the 2CB #1 results, based on comments on the thread. I do not take any responsibility for the accuracy of the results, but I believe they now agree with the comments.
I was looking forward to the backbuild round, but I guess I'll be ready when it comes around later.
So, with Zendikar coming up maybe a good special round may be to do a Zendikar-CB, where only Zendy cards are legal? Once we have the full spoiler from the prerelease and the set released to Gatherer we can try that out?
Pitching this idea also to 3CB and 5CB. Also, credit to this idea goes to bmh.
As the Zendikar list has been spoiled, I have had several moments where I thought "That card would be SPECTACULAR in 2CB!" I fully support this idea, though probably for the week after next (2 normal rounds, then 2 special rounds for POTM).
Anyway, here are the results, calculated this week essentially in their entirety by Psly4mne, for which thank you, sir. I hope to be more on top of things this week. He is also mostly responsible for the deck comments you see below, and for several improvements to the spreadsheet - 1-1s are now handled correctly automatically, and are thus listed as 3s, and the decks are listed in ranking order, obviating the need for a second sheet.
1. DragonDart - 48 - Trial//Error / Jenara, Asura of War
Error was dominant this week, and Jenara was the best win condition.
-. VikingMetal4L - 48 - Trial//Error / Jenara, Asura of War
See above
3. semioldguy - 46 - Goblin Trenches / Trial // Error
Yup, Error was good. Trenches was 2 turns slower than Jenara, which mattered.
-. Xyre - 46 - Goblin Trenches / Trial // Error
See above
5. Psly4mne - 44 - Esper Charm / Deepfire Elemental
Deepfire was slow, but it handled Trenches well. Esper Charm was better than Blightning in one case.
6. domogrue - 36 - Goblin Trenches / Blightning
Trenches is a good kill card, but Blightning performed badly againt Error.
7. WhammWhamme - 25 - Maelstrom Pulse / Goblin Trenches
Vindicate would have been better in Trenches mirrors.
-. IOPut - 25 - Pernicious Deed / Blitz Hellion
Too many decks could block Hellion, either with 7 goblins or with an 8/8 Jenara.
9. FuriouslySleepingIdea - 24 - Blightning / Angel of Despair
Angel was either too slow or not enough removal for most matches.
10. ced395 - 22 - Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer / Soul Manipulation
Very creative double threat, but loses to Trenches and more recursive removal.
11. bmh - 20 - Trial // Error / Rakdos Augermage
The discard from Augermage was usually too slow to matter. Sanity Gnawers would have been a little better.
12. dethwing - 16 - Adun Oakenshield / Necrotic Sliver
Good idea, but too slow.
13. jordman - 14 - Maelstrom Pulse / Ajani Vengeant
Ajani still sucks.
Results Spreadsheet: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tA_X7YcXL7yXMcZmBxhOSGA&output=html
Matches highlighted in blue were especially interesting/close.
I've integrated all previous 2CBs into different sheets in the same spreadsheet, and will continue to update this central, bookmarkable spreadsheet as the game progresses. I've also added a POTM sheet, which I will begin to work on this week. The first POTM race will not include 2CB #1, as there are still matches there that bmh never corrected *reproving throat-clear*.
Starting with this week POTM 2 will begin. It will consist of 2 regular weeks, and then 2 of the same theme week. Which theme that ends up being is something I heartily urge you to discuss in the threads up until then.
0. Overview
Two Card Blind (2CB) is a Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit two-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly two cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
1.5 Whenever a player could play a land card, that player may put a basic land card from outside the game onto the battlefield.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 2CB moderator (Personman).
2.1a. The moderator informs players of mistakes in a timely manner.
2.1b. A player may submit multiple decks, but only the most recent is counted.
2.1c. If a player's final deck is illegal, that deck is entered in that week's tournament.
2.2. A player may not submit a deck that can – against any deck – win the game or force one or more cards in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's first turn.
2.3. A deck may include any number of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1).
2.4. Each player plays one match, consisting of two games, against each other player. Each player is the starting player once per match. Results assume optimal play and perfect information.
2.4a. If no player can win, the game is a draw.
2.4b. A player that can't win or draw plays to extend the game.
2.5. Points determine tournament standings. Players are ranked, first to last, in order of decreasing number of points.
2.5a. For each match, a player earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. Matches in which each player wins one game and loses one game are worth only 2 points per player, rather than 3.
2.5b. A table of match results is posted each round. Its rows represent players and its columns represent opponents. Match results reflect the combined result of both games played in a match; 3 is a game win, 1 a drawn game, and 0 a game loss. A player's points are listed at the end of his or her row.
2.5c. If I receive too many decks, players will be randomly divided into heats.
3. Banned List
3.1 The following cards are banned. Any deck that includes a card on this list is illegal.
* Fastbond
This week is normal. Deadline is midnight EST Wednesday.
I think this just shows how strong all-purpose 2-mana answers are in this format... especially when nobody can really hope to cast anything worthwhile until at least turn 2, and even then none of the threats are especially threatening. Also, I don't know that limiting the cardpool is a bad idea, but I think this particular method of doing so led to a format with one clearly dominant strategy (and little to no way around it).
Psly4mne and I were also discussing the possibility of 2CB backbuild - I'm not yet convinced that it's interesting, but it certainly has potential.
Anyway, I think backbuild could be an interesting format. Offhand, I can think of a number of viable decks, no one of which beats (i.e., loses to) all the others.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I guess ced found a deck that beats it. Here's another:
Pride of the Clouds
Uncounterable threat (e.g. Pyre Zombie, Spellbreaker Behemoth)
Pretty janky though.
Q
That's true in general for CB's.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
You said
When you are on the play, error can be cast before the beginning of your opponent's second turn. I was going to submit a deck with tidehollow sculler. I didn't because of this rule and submitted a less powerful deck because it was legal.
Please. Either don't make rules, or actually enforce the rules you make.
Sorry, I'm bad at following directions.
My first submission was Tidehollow Sculler // Error. Oops.
The second deck up was Æther Rift // Enigma Sphinx. Oops.
I was kicking around the idea of Iterative Backbuild.
The universe begins with a test deck. The deck that wins the round (by beating the test deck while getting the lowest score) is added to the set of test decks and the player who contributed the deck is awarded a point.
It might be feasible in 2CB.
Modern UW Taking Turns
Personman, Krashbot, VikingMetal4L, domogrue and I know each other from college. psly4mne apparently knows me, but I don't know his real identity yet.
Modern UW Taking Turns
Wait guys, was I supposed to share this info? Did I just compromise mission integrity just now?
Fattycakes Zombie of Clan Limited
Fattycakes Zombie of Clan Limited
Oops.
This actually kinda makes sense, since Psyl4mne offered to clean up the 2CB #1 results. Now we can have POTM #1 be 1-4, and start off POTM #2 in a normal-normal-special-special manner. That does mean that 5 of the first 6 2CBs are normal, but if people don't mind too much that seems ok. So go ahead and send in your decks!
I don't know about The Rack. It is extremely fast and strong, but hasn't come out on top even once (though it's certainly knocked a lot of decks down). Balance seems stupidly powerful, but serves only as removal, and not as a threat in itself.
I was looking forward to the backbuild round, but I guess I'll be ready when it comes around later.
Fattycakes Zombie of Clan Limited
Pitching this idea also to 3CB and 5CB. Also, credit to this idea goes to bmh.
Fattycakes Zombie of Clan Limited