Good for avoiding a grid of 3's, maybe? The results were interesting to me, and I'm going to run the pseudo-normal format again. Also, congratulations to Chimpanzee for narrowly winning player of the month.
I've got something else for you to consider this time: special rounds. I've divided all the special rounds into three categories: Fundamental Change, Restrictions, and Options. The designations are somewhat arbitrary, and some rounds, one might argue, could fall into multiple categories. Let me try to explain my system.
A "fundamental change" completely changes how the game is played, whether you like it or not. "Restrictions" refers to the cards a deck can play; A round that falls into this category either limits the cards a deck can play, or, in one case, adds cards to the pool. "Options" is the broadest category, so broad that I've broken it down into two sub-categories: mana and other. A round in this category changes the rules, but unlike a fundamental change, players have the option of responding to it. Whereas "fundamental changes" creates a completely new environment, the feel that "options" conveys is that players have something they can choose to take advantage of. The main difference is choice.
Within each category, I've broken rounds into tiers. These tiers do not represent my evaluation of how successful a round is. Rather, they measure the degree to which a round impacts deck design. Within the tiers, I've tried to list rounds in order of impact, but I've probably made more mistakes there. Note that rounds that a player could choose to pursue for POTM points are automatically in the bottom tier.
My goal is to offer good special rounds. There are a couple questions you can answer to help me better understand what you want.
First, "What are your five favorite special rounds?" They can be from this list, but those of you who were playing way back when can also chime in with older rounds.
Second, "Which five rounds were least successful?" Same rules apply.
5 Chimpanzee – Auriok Salvagers / Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Decree of Justice / Fountain of Cho This deck may be a bit slow if it can't combo and more vulnerable going first than some other decks, but the gamble got you more points than some decks that focused to heavily on winning game one.
7 Naphtali – Black Lotus / Contagion / Leonin Squire / Nether Void / Vindicate By far the most innovative deck this round. A pitch card (though I'd argue for Sickening Shoal over Contagion) was a great way to break out of 3-3 land.
Five Card Blind (5CB) is a weekly Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. Players "blindly" submit five-card decks to compete against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play; given perfect information and no random effects, a match will always have the same outcome.
Rules
1. Players' decks contain exactly five cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
2. Players' libraries begin the game empty, but still exist. Players do not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
3. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
4. During players' first and second turns, no player may make a play which would win the game, create an extra turn, or force a card in an opponent's hand to change zones.
5. Decks may include any number of any card legal in Vintage, with the exception of the following cards:
1. Each participant submits a deck to the 5CB moderator (Mogg). If a participant submits multiple decks, then only the most recent submission is counted.
2. Each participant plays against each other participant. Matches consist of two games, with each player going first once. Results assume perfect information and play.
3. Points determine tournament standings; the player with the most points wins the round. For each match, players earn: 3 points for two wins or a win and a draw, 1 point for two draws or a win and a loss, and 0 points for two losses or a draw and a loss. Tiebreakers are determined by number of games won, followed by number of games drawn.
4. The points from all rounds ending in a given month are summed to determine that month's Player of the Month. At the end of each month, the player with the most points becomes the Player of the Month.
Deck Submission Deadline:
Friday, April 3rd, 2:00 pm PST.
Please use this thread to discuss any aspect of 5CB.
Also, consider a subscription to 5CB. PM me to express your interest, and I'll send you a weekly reminder (about two days before deadline) to submit a deck.
I am confused about why WhammWhamme does not 3-3 Naphtali. Contagion is insufficient to kill Salvagers, isn't it?
As far as formats go...
My favourite rounds were: Leyline, 10 Life, Nemesis, Mana Market and Dream Halls.
Least successful: Pick any five Tier 3 concepts.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I can't really claim innovation, its one of the decks I copied from someone else last time I played 5CB. You're right about Sickening Shoal being probably better too. It would be either -3/-3 or -4/-4 instead of 2x -2/-1.
I am confused about why WhammWhamme does not 3-3 Naphtali. Contagion is insufficient to kill Salvagers, isn't it?
Contagion doesn't kill Salvagers, but it does make them 0/2 which he can't kill me with.
I think I'm also 4-1 against Mogg.
If Gargoyle names Vindicate, Lotus or Squite I Contagion the Gargoyle (making it 0/1) -> draw
If Gargoyle names Contagion, I can Vindicate the Gargoyle (then lose the Squire to the Powder Keg) -> draw
If Gargoyle names Vindicate, Lotus or Squite I Contagion the Gargoyle (making it 0/1) -> draw
How about if Mogg names Lotus then Kegs his own Gargoyle some turns later and digs it back on your end step, recasting it on his own turn, again naming Lotus?
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Favorite:
Backbuild
Landline
Doubling Season
Undazed*
Epic Week**
Un-Favorite:
2-2
<20
10 Life/50 Life
No Bans
Legendary Creatures
The Un-Favorite list isn't comprehensive, but these are certainly formats I wish to never see.
* Undazed: Each player has "Pay 19 life: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool." Like Mana Market, but less obviously breakable. A round with this rule.
** Epic Week: No end phases. Abeyance and Yawgmoth's Will (at minimum) banned. A round with this rule.
How about if Mogg names Lotus then Kegs his own Gargoyle some turns later and digs it back on your end step, recasting it on his own turn, again naming Lotus?
ngollon, to read a person's match results, look at the row next to their number and add up the results. It's a bit confusing, because I'm still recording games using the old system; 0 points for a loss, 1 for a draw, and 3 for a win. So, 0-1 translates into 0 match points, 2-3 is 1, and 4 and 6 are 3. I've been meaning to find an elegant way to explain this system in the rules, but I keep forgetting. I'll commit myself now.
So, looking at my results (below), you effectively get 1 + 1+ 1 + 3 + 1 + 1 = 8.
I've got something else for you to consider this time: special rounds. I've divided all the special rounds into three categories: Fundamental Change, Restrictions, and Options. The designations are somewhat arbitrary, and some rounds, one might argue, could fall into multiple categories. Let me try to explain my system.
A "fundamental change" completely changes how the game is played, whether you like it or not. "Restrictions" refers to the cards a deck can play; A round that falls into this category either limits the cards a deck can play, or, in one case, adds cards to the pool. "Options" is the broadest category, so broad that I've broken it down into two sub-categories: mana and other. A round in this category changes the rules, but unlike a fundamental change, players have the option of responding to it. Whereas "fundamental changes" creates a completely new environment, the feel that "options" conveys is that players have something they can choose to take advantage of. The main difference is choice.
Within each category, I've broken rounds into tiers. These tiers do not represent my evaluation of how successful a round is. Rather, they measure the degree to which a round impacts deck design. Within the tiers, I've tried to list rounds in order of impact, but I've probably made more mistakes there. Note that rounds that a player could choose to pursue for POTM points are automatically in the bottom tier.
My goal is to offer good special rounds. There are a couple questions you can answer to help me better understand what you want.
First, "What are your five favorite special rounds?" They can be from this list, but those of you who were playing way back when can also chime in with older rounds.
Second, "Which five rounds were least successful?" Same rules apply.
1. Fundamental Change
Tier 1
Backbuild (13, 14, 48)
DC5 (28, 29)
Nemesis (64, 65)
Tier 2
Mulligans (40)
10 Life, 50 Life (6, 50)
Combat (21, 22)
Low-Scoring (47)
Tier 3
2-2 (54)
Mindslaver (8)
< 20 (30)
2. Restrictions
Tier 1
No Bans (45)
31 Bans (19)
Even, Odd (43, 44)
Tier 2
Favorite Colors (37)
Lovely Letters (68, 69)
Consecutive Names (24, 25)
Tier 3
Lorwyn (4)
Later Alphabet (12)
Repeat Letters (5)
Auras (16)
3. Options
A. Mana
Tier 1
Landline (51)
Mana Market (33)
Activated (72, 73)
Leyline (32)
Tier 2
Colorless Creatures (56)
Helm and Mirari (34)
Multicolor Discount (53)
Thanksgiving Special (9, 10)
Christmas / New Year's Special (61, 62)
Exploration (52)
Lotus (38)
Mogg Week (39)
B. Other
Doubling Season (17, 18)
Legendary Creatures (57)
Pre-entered Decks (35)
And now, to the results!
This week had normal format, with Barren Glory, Channel, Foil, Meddling Mage, and Show and Tell temporarily banned.
Results
1 Mogg – Black Lotus / City of Traitors / Powder Keg / Soldevi Digger / Voidstone Gargoyle
Did exactly what a powerful, consistent, repeat deck should do: scored well, but didn't win.
2 bateleur – Black Lotus / City of Traitors / Eureka / Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker / Pestermite
Although I think City of Traitors should have been totally irrelevant, it served you well. And it's hard to stop a bajillion creatures.
3 WhammWhamme – Auriok Salvagers / Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Conjurer's Ban / Conjurer's Bauble
When you're plan is to generate infinite mana, it seems like you could find a better use for that mana than a creature that gets infinitely blocked by Mishra's Factory.
4 halinn – Chalice of the Void / Epochrasite / Mishra's Workshop / Smokestack / Sol Ring
A deck that was once powerful because of its super-consistent on-the-play wins. It still has those wins.
5 Chimpanzee – Auriok Salvagers / Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Decree of Justice / Fountain of Cho
This deck may be a bit slow if it can't combo and more vulnerable going first than some other decks, but the gamble got you more points than some decks that focused to heavily on winning game one.
6 ced395 – Epochrasite / Mishra's Workshop / Smokestack / Sol Ring / Sphere of Resistance
I've tested this build and the Chalice build plenty, and Chalice always comes out ahead. The one advantage I've noticed in Sphere is that it adds resistance to Foil.
7 Naphtali – Black Lotus / Contagion / Leonin Squire / Nether Void / Vindicate
By far the most innovative deck this round. A pitch card (though I'd argue for Sickening Shoal over Contagion) was a great way to break out of 3-3 land.
Matches
X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
1| X 3 3 3 6 3 3 | 8
2| 3 X 3 3 6 6 0 | 9
3| 3 3 X 3 3 3 1 | 5
4| 3 3 3 X 3 2 3 | 6
5| 0 0 3 3 X 3 4 | 6
6| 3 0 3 2 3 X 3 | 5
7| 3 6 4 3 1 3 X | 9
Tournament Standings
1 bateleur (2): 9
2 Naphtali (7): 9
3 Mogg (1): 8
4 halinn (4): 6
5 Chimpanzee (5): 6
6 WhammWhamme (3): 5
7 ced395 (6): 5
bateleur wins 5CB #74.
POTM Standings
1 Chimpanzee: 44
2 bateleur: 43
3 ced395: 42
4 Mogg: 30
4 WhammWhamme: 30
6 Naphtali: 29
7 Halinn: 23
8 Farik: 16
9 AJFirst: 12
10 chaos550: 8
11 MyNameIsFourteen: 5
Chimpanzee is Player of the Month.
Overview
Five Card Blind (5CB) is a weekly Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. Players "blindly" submit five-card decks to compete against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play; given perfect information and no random effects, a match will always have the same outcome.
Rules
1. Players' decks contain exactly five cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
2. Players' libraries begin the game empty, but still exist. Players do not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
3. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
4. During players' first and second turns, no player may make a play which would win the game, create an extra turn, or force a card in an opponent's hand to change zones.
5. Decks may include any number of any card legal in Vintage, with the exception of the following cards:
Force of Will
Pact of Negation
Magus of the Moon
Trinisphere
Ghost Quarter
Wasteland
Strip Mine
Tournament Structure
1. Each participant submits a deck to the 5CB moderator (Mogg). If a participant submits multiple decks, then only the most recent submission is counted.
2. Each participant plays against each other participant. Matches consist of two games, with each player going first once. Results assume perfect information and play.
3. Points determine tournament standings; the player with the most points wins the round. For each match, players earn: 3 points for two wins or a win and a draw, 1 point for two draws or a win and a loss, and 0 points for two losses or a draw and a loss. Tiebreakers are determined by number of games won, followed by number of games drawn.
4. The points from all rounds ending in a given month are summed to determine that month's Player of the Month. At the end of each month, the player with the most points becomes the Player of the Month.
September 2007
Round 1 (Introduction)
Round 2 andelijah
POTM: None
October 2007
Round 3 Mogg
Round 4 Chimpanzee (Lorwyn)
Round 5 Meat Popsicle (Repeat Letters)
Round 6 Mogg (10 Life)
POTM: Mogg
November 2007
Round 7 Death_By_Beebles
Round 8 jcsuperstar (Mindslaver)
Round 9 Mogg (Thanksgiving Special)
Round 10 Mogg (Thanksgiving Special, Part Two)
POTM: Mogg
December 2007
Round 11 carrion pigeons
Round 12 Mogg (Later Alphabet)
Round 13 Mogg (Backbuild)
Round 14 Xyre (Backbuild)
POTM: Mogg
January 2008
Round 15 armlx
Round 16 Chimpanzee (Auras)
Round 17 Mogg (Doubling Season)
Round 18 carrion pigeons, Chimpanzee (Doubling Season)
Round 19 WhammWhamme (31 Bans)
POTM: Mogg
February 2008
Round 20 Chimpanzee
Round 21 Mogg (Combat)
Round 22 Mogg (Combat)
Round 23 Knowledge
POTM: Mogg
March 2008
Round 24 Mogg (Consecutive Names)
Round 25 Chimpanzee (Consecutive Names)
Round 26 The Mad Tapper
Round 27 The Mad Tapper
POTM: The Mad Tapper
April 2008
Round 28 The Mad Tapper (DC5)
Round 29 jcsuperstar (DC5)
Round 30 jcsuperstar (< 20)
Round 31 bateleur
POTM: bateleur
May 2008
Round 32 WhammWhamme (Leyline)
Round 33 Silver Seraph (Mana Market)
Round 34 bateleur (Helm of Awakening and Mirari)
Round 35 Alfred (Pre-entered Decks)
POTM: bateleur
June 2008
Round 36 bateleur
Round 37 WhammWhamme (Favorite Colors)
Round 38 YuanTi (Lotus)
Round 39 Mogg (Mogg Week)
POTM: WhammWhamme
July 2008
Round 40 bateleur (Mulligans)
Round 41 Mogg
Round 42 Chimpanzee
Round 43 ced395 (Even)
POTM: Mogg
August 2008
Round 44 WhammWhamme (Odd)
Round 45 Farik (No Bans)
Round 46 Mogg
POTM: Error1
September 2008
Round 47 ghweiss (Low-Scoring)
Round 48 theeguy (Backbuild, Part Two)
Round 49 Mogg
Round 50 Mogg (50 Life)
Round 51 Error1 (Landline)
POTM: Mogg
October 2008
Round 52 Shogun17 (Exploration)
Round 53 MT_Gunn (Multicolor Discount)
Round 54 Silkenfist (2-2)
Round 55 bateleur, WhammWhamme
POTM: Error1
November 2008
Round 56 Error1 (Colorless Creatures)
Round 57 Knowledge, Silkenfist (Legendary Creatures)
POTM: None
December 2008
Round 58 (Introduction)
Round 59 Halinn
Round 60 Halinn
Round 61 ced395 (Christmas Special)
Round 62 MyNameIsFourteen (New Year's Special)
POTM: None
January 2009
Round 63 Mogg
Round 64 Mogg (Nemesis)
Round 65 MyNameIsFourteen (Nemesis)
Round 66 Mogg
POTM: Mogg
February 2009
Round 67 Chimpanzee
Round 68 MyNameIsFourteen (Lovely Letters)
Round 69 Naphtali (Lovely Letters, Part 2)
Round 70 bateleur
POTM: bateluer
March 2009
Round 71 ced395, Chimpanzee
Round 72 ced395 (Activated)
Round 73 WhammWhamme (Activated)
Round 74 bateleur
POTM: Chimpanzee
Total Wins Per Player
Rounds
Mogg: 18
bateleur: 7
Chimpanzee: 7
WhammWhamme: 6
ced395: 4
jcsuperstar: 3
MyNameIsFourteen: 3
The Mad Tapper: 3
carrion pigeons: 2
Error1: 2
Halinn: 2
Knowledge: 2
Silkenfist: 2
Alfred: 1
andelijah: 1
armlx: 1
Death By Beebles: 1
Farik: 1
ghweiss: 1
Meat Popsicle: 1
MT Gunn: 1
Naphtali: 1
Shogun17: 1
Silver Seraph: 1
theeguy: 1
Xyre: 1
YuanTi: 1
POTM
Mogg: 8
bateleur: 3
Error1: 2
Chimpanzee: 1
The Mad Tapper: 1
WhammWhamme: 1
Barren Glory, Channel, Foil, Meddling Mage, and Show and Tell are temporarily banned.
Deck Submission Deadline:
Friday, April 3rd, 2:00 pm PST.
Please use this thread to discuss any aspect of 5CB.
Also, consider a subscription to 5CB. PM me to express your interest, and I'll send you a weekly reminder (about two days before deadline) to submit a deck.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
As far as formats go...
My favourite rounds were: Leyline, 10 Life, Nemesis, Mana Market and Dream Halls.
Least successful: Pick any five Tier 3 concepts.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Contagion doesn't kill Salvagers, but it does make them 0/2 which he can't kill me with.
I think I'm also 4-1 against Mogg.
If Gargoyle names Vindicate, Lotus or Squite I Contagion the Gargoyle (making it 0/1) -> draw
If Gargoyle names Contagion, I can Vindicate the Gargoyle (then lose the Squire to the Powder Keg) -> draw
Oh, hadn't noticed it was permanent! Nice.
How about if Mogg names Lotus then Kegs his own Gargoyle some turns later and digs it back on your end step, recasting it on his own turn, again naming Lotus?
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Backbuild
Landline
Nemesis
Mana Market
Consecutive Names
Least Favorite:
2-2
< 20
Lovely Letters
Auras
Legendary Creatures
I'm glad to start seeing some trends. And, as more people post lists, this should give me some good ideas for future rounds.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Backbuild
Landline
Doubling Season
Undazed*
Epic Week**
Un-Favorite:
2-2
<20
10 Life/50 Life
No Bans
Legendary Creatures
The Un-Favorite list isn't comprehensive, but these are certainly formats I wish to never see.
* Undazed: Each player has "Pay 19 life: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool." Like Mana Market, but less obviously breakable. A round with this rule.
** Epic Week: No end phases. Abeyance and Yawgmoth's Will (at minimum) banned. A round with this rule.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
...
Well then I'd be screwed
MultiColored Discount
Landline
DC5
Undazed*
Epic Week*
Un-Favorite:
2-2
<20
10 Life/50 Life
No Bans
Legendary Creatures
*see Xyre's post
So, looking at my results (below), you effectively get 1 + 1+ 1 + 3 + 1 + 1 = 8.
X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
1| X 3 3 3 6 3 3 | 8
I hope this helps. Also, welcome to the forums.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy