Send a private message with your list of cards (your hand) to this account.
If you have any questions, just ask!
You can send a private message, or you can post in this thread. If you want to ask a question by private message, please note in your subject line that you haven't included your submission, because I want to respond to you quickly, and I don't review any submissions until I've chosen my own. I want to play, too!
Submission deadline: Tuesday, July 31st, 11:00 PM GMT
Rules and Banned List
Be sure to review the rules and banned list(s) by clicking below.
Cards on the PHM Banned List are always banned, and cards on the Land Rule Banned List are banned as well when the round uses a Land Rule.
Contents
1. Overview
2. Game Rules
3. Hand Construction Rules
4. Entry
5. Perfect Hand Magic League (PHML)
6. Scoring
7. Variant Format Rules
1. Overview
Perfect Hand Magic (PHM) is a competitive strategy game for two or more players. It can be played using pencil and paper; however, it's most commonly played via an online forum. To play the game, each player secretly chooses a specified number of Magic cards which form their hand. Once all players have chosen hands, the hands are revealed and scored.
The object of the game is to choose the hand that will score the most points. The score for each hand is determined by the result that it would achieve if it were used to play two games of Magic – one match – against each competing hand; the rules for these theoretical games are covered in Section 2 – Game Rules. During each theoretical game, the player of each hand employs the strategy that maximizes the score for their hand, taking into account the strategy of their opponent(s).
A hand scores 3 points for each game that it would win, 0 points for each game that it would lose, and 1 point for each game that would end in a draw. However, a hand scores only 2 points for any match that would have a symmetrical result, regardless of whether the result would be two drawn games or a win for each hand.
The composition of a hand is limited only by a short banned list and a few restrictions on the game states that it can enable; these restrictions are covered in Section 3 – Hand Construction Rules.
2. Game Rules
2.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
2.1a. Changes to the Comprehensive Rules or the Oracle text of a card take effect at the following times:
i. Changes that would take effect during the prerelease for a set take effect during the first round for which cards from that set may be submitted instead.
ii. Changes that would take effect at any other time take effect during the first round for which those rules have been in effect since the start of the round instead.
2.1b. Ignore any part of an instruction that isn't covered by these rules or by the rules of Magic.
2.2. A player's opening hand contains that player's chosen cards.
2.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
2.3a. A player doesn't lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
2.4. An effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of that effect instead.
2.5. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
2.6. Players know the identities of all face-down cards and all cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
2.7. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
2.8. If a loop containing at least one optional action would be repeated indefinitely during a turn, then any player may propose a number of times for that loop to repeat instead. If a player does, then each other player may propose a different number and the loop is repeated for the greatest number of times proposed instead. No player is required to make a choice that would end a loop that crosses multiple turns.
2.9. Cards can't be brought into the game from outside the game.
3. Hand Construction Rules
3.1. A player may not choose an opening hand that would enable them to achieve any of the following results before an opponent's second turn would end, such that that opponent could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in at least one of these results:
i. Win the game.
ii. Take an infinite number of turns.
iii. Cause a card to leave an opponent's hand.
Ignore this rule in the following cases:
3.1a. That player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents' cards had no rules text.
3.1b. That player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents had no maximum hand size.
3.1c. That player could achieve one of these results only during a game that was restarted after an opponent's second turn had begun.
3.1d. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be put onto the battlefield by that effect.
3.1e. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be in that opponent's hand once that effect resolved.
3.2. A hand may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage.
3.2a. An unreleased card is treated as though it's legal in Vintage if it will become legal in Vintage upon release and if the release notes for the set that contains that card were published prior to the start of the round (See rule 4.1).
3.3. A hand may not contain any cards on the PHM Banned List.
4. Entry
4.1. A player plays a round of PHM by submitting a list of their chosen cards to the PHM moderator.
4.2. A player may change their hand until the posted deadline.
4.2a. If a player submits an illegal hand, then the moderator will try to notify that player to change their hand prior to the deadline. If the hand is discovered to be illegal after the deadline has passed – or if the player does not submit a new hand – then the moderator may either disqualify that hand or replace it with a similar hand, in which any cards causing that hand to be illegal have been removed or replaced.
4.2b. The moderator also will try to notify a player if that player's hand doesn't enable that player to win the game against any possible hand.
4.3. A player may name their hand. If he or she doesn't, then the moderator may name it. The moderator may also rename a player's hand at their discretion.
5. Perfect Hand Magic League (PHML)
5.1. PHM League play consists of four rounds of PHM.
5.2. Each round, a player earns League points according to the following formula:
League Points = Points Scored / Number of Opponents x 100 (rounded to the nearest integer)
5.3. The player with the most League points at the end of League play is the PHM League winner.
5.3a. If multiple players have the most League points at the end of the League, then the PHM moderator may allow those players to play additional rounds until only one of those players has the most League points or until a specified number of additional rounds has been played.
6. Scoring
6.1. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Each row lists one player's result against each other player. A player's points and League points are tallied at the end of their row.
6.2. A player may earn bonus League points as specified by the PHM moderator.
6.3. Each player is responsible for determining the match results for their hand.
6.3a. Players are encouraged to determine or verify additional match results.
6.3b. An undetermined match result is counted as a loss for both players in that match.
6.3c. A player may challenge any result until the moderator announces that the result is final.
7. Variant Format Rules
7.1. Perfect Hand Magic has been played with hands typically containing between one and seven cards. Additionally, the Game Rules and Hand Construction Rules have been adapted to create hundreds of variant formats. Five commonly-played variants are described in Sections 7.3-7.7.
7.2. The rules of a variant format overwrite any other applicable rules.
7.2a. Some variant formats generate continuous effects. A continuous effect generated by a variant format is treated as having the earliest timestamp within a layer or sublayer. If continuous effects generated by multiple variant formats would apply in the same layer or sublayer, assign timestamps to those effects in the order that the variant formats are listed in the rules or name of the round.
7.2b. Some variant formats require a player to make some number of decisions in addition to or instead of submitting a hand. A player's submission must comply with the Hand Construction Rules, taking into account any decisions made at this time.
7.2c. Some variant formats require players to make decisions "before the start of each game". For these decisions, follow the "Active Player, Nonactive Player order" rule, replacing "active player" with "starting player".
7.3. Land Rule Variant.
7.3a. There are three versions of the land rule variant.
i. This is the basic land rule (LR). Any player may play a basic land of their choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
ii. This is the extra land rule (ELR). Any player may play a basic land of their choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of their turns from their hand. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
iii. This is the draw land rule (DLR). If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land of their choice from outside the game into their hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of their first turn. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.3b. For all versions of the land rule variant, except as allowed by its owner, a basic land can't be caused to leave the battlefield, change control, or gain another card type by an effect of a source controlled by an opponent of its owner before its owner's second turn would end.
7.5. Life Rule (LF).
7.5a. If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game.
7.5b. Irrespective of rule 7.5a, a player must choose an opening hand that enables them to win both games of a match against at least one hand, such that the player of the losing hand could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in that player losing the game. The losing hand must conform with the Hand Construction Rules but need not consider this rule.
7.6. Backbuild.
7.6a. Players exchange hands before the start of each match. Each player must choose an opening hand that enables them to win both games of a match against a specified hand or specified hands, such that the player of any specified hand could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in the player of that specified hand losing the game. Ignore rule 3.1.
7.7. (Bonus).
7.7a. A player earns bonus points if their hand meets specified requirements.
PHM Banned List_________________Land Rule Banned List
1. 0-6. Props for reading the meta perfectly. Never // Return answers both my planeswalker and Mult, your 6/6 beats my 2/1. I can be cute and return Mult to my hand in response to the Return, but then I die to Hydra well before T8.
2. X. This was a surprisingly interesting "obvious" meta. Everyone recognized Liliana and Dack were absurd, but had different solutions in an attempt to counter.
3. 6-0. I can always drop Liliana to answer Hydra, then my discarded cards win. What was the Dispel trying to answer, a counterspell flex?
4. 2-2. Wait are the PW deck cards legal here? I can always drop Liliana to threaten the Naga, but Ensnaring Bridge stops me cold.
2) ManyCookies :: Dodgin' the Dack Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar / Liliana of the Veil / Tah-Crop Skirmisher
The trick to this one is holding your Liliana to make me hold my Never (which is my only way to kill Liliana, who can otherwise handle my Hydra no problem). Worse, that means that I don't get to discard my Hydra and I either need to hard-cast it or cast my own Liliana to discard it, in which case you can follow up with yours and make me discard my Never.
After that it ends up getting really complicated. I'm reasonably sure you win with me OTD, so it's not 6-0.
3) Danxor3 Dispel / Dack Fayden / Honored Hydra
OTD I discard Never and Hydra, then play Liliana. Regardless of what you discard, Liliana kills your Hydra with no trouble. ~ 6-0
EDIT: figured out the OTD line, at least enough to call it quits rather than exhaustively checking every possibility. It looks like ManyCookies wins while OTP.
Then you discard Multani. You're tapped out from embalming, so I Return on Multani and get a zombie.
yT5: Liliana, -2 to kill the zombie, swing 2 to kill my Liliana.
mT5: pass
yT6: +1 Liliana to discard my Hydra. You can now -2 her to kill my Hydra token whenever I embalm it and then win with your Skirmisher token.
Then you discard Multani.
I embalm my Hydra and pass.
yT5: Liliana, -2 to kill my Hydra, swing 2 at my Liliana to kill her. You win again.
If I Never your Skirmisher token then your Liliana kills my Hydra while your Multani eventually sticks.
yT3: swing 2, pass
mT3: pass
yT4: swing 2, pass
mT4: Liliana, -2 to kill Skirmisher
yT5: embalm Skirmisher, pass
mT5: +1 Liliana (to 2) and discard Never, you discard Multani, I Never your Multani since you have lands still tapped from embalming.
yT5: Liliana, -2 to kill my zombie, swing 2 with Skirmisher token to kill my Liliana.
mT6: hard-cast Hydra
Your Liliana can't kill it before it swings.
OR
mT5: +1 Liliana (to 2) and discard Never, you discard Liliana, I Never your Liliana because you now have nothing but Multani to spend your mana on, so I'm not ever going to get it.
yT6: cast Multani
mT6: hard-cast Hydra, +1 Liliana (to 3)
yT7: Power through all my defenders, then re-cast Multani next turn when I Liliana him...
I tried to investigate how long I can stall before making the first play, since Multani is the dominant late-game force here. I think I lose purely on tempo if I play my Liliana later than mT4. I'm going to call this one a loss.
OTP...
I play T3 Liliana, -2 to kill Skirmisher
yT3: pass
mT4: +1 Liliana to discard Never, you discard Multani since you have the mana open to return him. Cast Return on your Skirmisher.
yT4: Liliana, -2 to kill my zombie.
mT5: +1 to discard Hydra (to 3), embalm it.
yT5: +1 Liliana (to 2), no discards.
mT6: swing Hydra at Liliana to kill her, then win by locking out Multani for a long while.
so I'm pretty sure I win OTP. I didn't investigate whether you holding the Skirmisher instead of playing it T2 changes anything.
... Which I think makes this whole League round a tie between us. I would of course welcome anyone who wants to re-examine my round against ManyCookies with him OTP. The time I spent figuring it out was over multiple days so it's very likely I've made some sort of mistake somewhere, whether or not that mistake makes the difference.
3CH LR Snakes on a Planeswalker
Land Rule: Basic Land Rule
Format Rule:
Your submission must include at least one Snake/Naga creature card (Changelings do not count) and at least one Planeswalker card.
1) Anachronity
Liliana of the Veil / Never//Return / Honored Hydra
2) ManyCookies :: Dodgin' the Dack
Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar / Liliana of the Veil / Tah-Crop Skirmisher
3) Danxor3
Dispel / Dack Fayden / Honored Hydra
4) Superbajt
Desiccated Naga / Liliana of the Veil / Ensnaring Bridge
How to Submit
If you have any questions, just ask!
You can send a private message, or you can post in this thread. If you want to ask a question by private message, please note in your subject line that you haven't included your submission, because I want to respond to you quickly, and I don't review any submissions until I've chosen my own. I want to play, too!
Submission deadline: Tuesday, July 31st, 11:00 PM GMT
Rules and Banned List
Cards on the PHM Banned List are always banned, and cards on the Land Rule Banned List are banned as well when the round uses a Land Rule.
1. Overview
2. Game Rules
3. Hand Construction Rules
4. Entry
5. Perfect Hand Magic League (PHML)
6. Scoring
7. Variant Format Rules
1. Overview
Perfect Hand Magic (PHM) is a competitive strategy game for two or more players. It can be played using pencil and paper; however, it's most commonly played via an online forum. To play the game, each player secretly chooses a specified number of Magic cards which form their hand. Once all players have chosen hands, the hands are revealed and scored.
The object of the game is to choose the hand that will score the most points. The score for each hand is determined by the result that it would achieve if it were used to play two games of Magic – one match – against each competing hand; the rules for these theoretical games are covered in Section 2 – Game Rules. During each theoretical game, the player of each hand employs the strategy that maximizes the score for their hand, taking into account the strategy of their opponent(s).
A hand scores 3 points for each game that it would win, 0 points for each game that it would lose, and 1 point for each game that would end in a draw. However, a hand scores only 2 points for any match that would have a symmetrical result, regardless of whether the result would be two drawn games or a win for each hand.
The composition of a hand is limited only by a short banned list and a few restrictions on the game states that it can enable; these restrictions are covered in Section 3 – Hand Construction Rules.
2. Game Rules
2.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
ii. Changes that would take effect at any other time take effect during the first round for which those rules have been in effect since the start of the round instead.
2.1b. Ignore any part of an instruction that isn't covered by these rules or by the rules of Magic.
2.2. A player's opening hand contains that player's chosen cards.
2.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
2.4. An effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of that effect instead.
2.5. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
2.6. Players know the identities of all face-down cards and all cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
2.7. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
2.8. If a loop containing at least one optional action would be repeated indefinitely during a turn, then any player may propose a number of times for that loop to repeat instead. If a player does, then each other player may propose a different number and the loop is repeated for the greatest number of times proposed instead. No player is required to make a choice that would end a loop that crosses multiple turns.
2.9. Cards can't be brought into the game from outside the game.
3. Hand Construction Rules
3.1. A player may not choose an opening hand that would enable them to achieve any of the following results before an opponent's second turn would end, such that that opponent could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in at least one of these results:
ii. Take an infinite number of turns.
iii. Cause a card to leave an opponent's hand.
Ignore this rule in the following cases:
3.1b. That player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents had no maximum hand size.
3.1c. That player could achieve one of these results only during a game that was restarted after an opponent's second turn had begun.
3.1d. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be put onto the battlefield by that effect.
3.1e. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be in that opponent's hand once that effect resolved.
3.2. A hand may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage.
3.3. A hand may not contain any cards on the PHM Banned List.
4. Entry
4.1. A player plays a round of PHM by submitting a list of their chosen cards to the PHM moderator.
4.2. A player may change their hand until the posted deadline.
4.2b. The moderator also will try to notify a player if that player's hand doesn't enable that player to win the game against any possible hand.
4.3. A player may name their hand. If he or she doesn't, then the moderator may name it. The moderator may also rename a player's hand at their discretion.
5. Perfect Hand Magic League (PHML)
5.1. PHM League play consists of four rounds of PHM.
5.2. Each round, a player earns League points according to the following formula:
5.3. The player with the most League points at the end of League play is the PHM League winner.
6. Scoring
6.1. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Each row lists one player's result against each other player. A player's points and League points are tallied at the end of their row.
6.2. A player may earn bonus League points as specified by the PHM moderator.
6.3. Each player is responsible for determining the match results for their hand.
6.3b. An undetermined match result is counted as a loss for both players in that match.
6.3c. A player may challenge any result until the moderator announces that the result is final.
7. Variant Format Rules
7.1. Perfect Hand Magic has been played with hands typically containing between one and seven cards. Additionally, the Game Rules and Hand Construction Rules have been adapted to create hundreds of variant formats. Five commonly-played variants are described in Sections 7.3-7.7.
7.2. The rules of a variant format overwrite any other applicable rules.
7.2b. Some variant formats require a player to make some number of decisions in addition to or instead of submitting a hand. A player's submission must comply with the Hand Construction Rules, taking into account any decisions made at this time.
7.2c. Some variant formats require players to make decisions "before the start of each game". For these decisions, follow the "Active Player, Nonactive Player order" rule, replacing "active player" with "starting player".
7.3. Land Rule Variant.
ii. This is the extra land rule (ELR). Any player may play a basic land of their choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of their turns from their hand. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
iii. This is the draw land rule (DLR). If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land of their choice from outside the game into their hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of their first turn. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.3b. For all versions of the land rule variant, except as allowed by its owner, a basic land can't be caused to leave the battlefield, change control, or gain another card type by an effect of a source controlled by an opponent of its owner before its owner's second turn would end.
7.5. Life Rule (LF).
7.5b. Irrespective of rule 7.5a, a player must choose an opening hand that enables them to win both games of a match against at least one hand, such that the player of the losing hand could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in that player losing the game. The losing hand must conform with the Hand Construction Rules but need not consider this rule.
7.6. Backbuild.
7.7. (Bonus).
Beast Within________________________Beacon of Creation
Chancellor of the Annex_____________Black Lotus
Channel_____________________________Energy Field
Dark Depths_________________________Lion's Eye Diamond
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn_____________Maralen of the Mornsong
Fastbond____________________________Nezumi Shortfang
Flash_______________________________Red Sun's Zenith
Force of Will_______________________White Sun's Zenith
Ghost Quarter
Laboratory Maniac
Leyline of Anticipation
Leyline of Singularity
Leyline of the Meek
Magus of the Moon
Meddling Mage
Pact of Negation
Show and Tell
Strip Mine
The Rack
Trinisphere
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Wasteland
Channel_____________________________Black Lotus
Fastbond____________________________Lion's Eye Diamond
Flash
Show and Tell
Disruption
Beast Within________________________Balancing Act
Chancellor of the Annex_____________Energy Field
Force of Will
Leyline of Anticipation
Leyline of Singularity
Pact of Negation
Trinisphere
Lands
Ghost Quarter
Strip Mine
Wasteland
Win Conditions
Barren Glory________________________Beacon of Creation
Dark Depths_________________________Maralen of the Mornsong
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn_____________Nezumi Shortfang
Laboratory Maniac___________________Red Sun's Zenith
Leyline of the Meek_________________White Sun's Zenith
Magus of the Moon
Meddling Mage
The Rack
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Format Ideas?
Additional Resources
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1. 0-6. Props for reading the meta perfectly. Never // Return answers both my planeswalker and Mult, your 6/6 beats my 2/1. I can be cute and return Mult to my hand in response to the Return, but then I die to Hydra well before T8.
2. X. This was a surprisingly interesting "obvious" meta. Everyone recognized Liliana and Dack were absurd, but had different solutions in an attempt to counter.
3. 6-0. I can always drop Liliana to answer Hydra, then my discarded cards win. What was the Dispel trying to answer, a counterspell flex?
4. 2-2. Wait are the PW deck cards legal here? I can always drop Liliana to threaten the Naga, but Ensnaring Bridge stops me cold.
I was expecting counterspellsto the strong Planeswalkers instead of removal due to them discarding.
Submitting a deck that can't beat Liliana was a mistake.
3 | 0 0 X 2 | 2
So that's...
Liliana of the Veil / Never // Return / Honored Hydra
2) ManyCookies :: Dodgin' the Dack
Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar / Liliana of the Veil / Tah-Crop Skirmisher
The trick to this one is holding your Liliana to make me hold my Never (which is my only way to kill Liliana, who can otherwise handle my Hydra no problem). Worse, that means that I don't get to discard my Hydra and I either need to hard-cast it or cast my own Liliana to discard it, in which case you can follow up with yours and make me discard my Never.
After that it ends up getting really complicated. I'm reasonably sure you win with me OTD, so it's not 6-0.
3) Danxor3
Dispel / Dack Fayden / Honored Hydra
OTD I discard Never and Hydra, then play Liliana. Regardless of what you discard, Liliana kills your Hydra with no trouble. ~ 6-0
4) Superbajt
Desiccated Naga / Liliana of the Veil / Ensnaring Bridge
Either Never or my Liliana kills your Naga, but I have nothing for Bridge so we sit and stare. ~ 2-2
X | 1 2 3 4 |
1 | X 3 6 2 | 10 | 333
EDIT: figured out the OTD line, at least enough to call it quits rather than exhaustively checking every possibility. It looks like ManyCookies wins while OTP.
yT2: Skirmisher
mT2: pass
yT3: swing 2, pass
mT3: Liliana, -2 to kill Skirmisher
yT4: embalm Skirmisher, pass
mT4: ...
yT5: Liliana, -2 to kill the zombie, swing 2 to kill my Liliana.
mT5: pass
yT6: +1 Liliana to discard my Hydra. You can now -2 her to kill my Hydra token whenever I embalm it and then win with your Skirmisher token.
I embalm my Hydra and pass.
yT5: Liliana, -2 to kill my Hydra, swing 2 at my Liliana to kill her. You win again.
yT3: swing 2, pass
mT3: pass
yT4: swing 2, pass
mT4: Liliana, -2 to kill Skirmisher
yT5: embalm Skirmisher, pass
mT5: +1 Liliana (to 2) and discard Never, you discard Multani, I Never your Multani since you have lands still tapped from embalming.
yT5: Liliana, -2 to kill my zombie, swing 2 with Skirmisher token to kill my Liliana.
mT6: hard-cast Hydra
Your Liliana can't kill it before it swings.
OR
mT5: +1 Liliana (to 2) and discard Never, you discard Liliana, I Never your Liliana because you now have nothing but Multani to spend your mana on, so I'm not ever going to get it.
yT6: cast Multani
mT6: hard-cast Hydra, +1 Liliana (to 3)
yT7: Power through all my defenders, then re-cast Multani next turn when I Liliana him...
I tried to investigate how long I can stall before making the first play, since Multani is the dominant late-game force here. I think I lose purely on tempo if I play my Liliana later than mT4. I'm going to call this one a loss.
OTP...
I play T3 Liliana, -2 to kill Skirmisher
yT3: pass
mT4: +1 Liliana to discard Never, you discard Multani since you have the mana open to return him. Cast Return on your Skirmisher.
yT4: Liliana, -2 to kill my zombie.
mT5: +1 to discard Hydra (to 3), embalm it.
yT5: +1 Liliana (to 2), no discards.
mT6: swing Hydra at Liliana to kill her, then win by locking out Multani for a long while.
so I'm pretty sure I win OTP. I didn't investigate whether you holding the Skirmisher instead of playing it T2 changes anything.
... Which I think makes this whole League round a tie between us. I would of course welcome anyone who wants to re-examine my round against ManyCookies with him OTP. The time I spent figuring it out was over multiple days so it's very likely I've made some sort of mistake somewhere, whether or not that mistake makes the difference.
- Rabid Wombat