Each player starts the game with an emblem with "Pay 3 life: Put a basic land of your choice from outside the game onto the battlefield under your control."
Be sure to review the rules and banned list(s) by clicking below.
Cards on the PHM Banned List are always banned, and cards on the Land Rule Banned List are banned as well when the round uses a Land Rule.
Contents
1. Overview
2. Game Rules
3. Hand Construction Rules
4. Entry
5. Perfect Hand Magic League (PHML)
6. Scoring
7. Variant Format Rules
1. Overview
Perfect Hand Magic (PHM) is a competitive strategy game for two or more players. It can be played using pencil and paper; however, it's most commonly played via an online forum. To play the game, each player secretly chooses a specified number of Magic cards which form his or her hand. Once all players have chosen hands, the hands are revealed and scored.
The object of the game is to choose the hand that will score the most points. The score for each hand is determined by the result that it would achieve if it were used to play two games of Magic – one match – against each competing hand; the rules for these theoretical games are covered in Section 2 – Game Rules. During each theoretical game, the player of each hand employs the strategy that maximizes the score for his or her hand, taking into account the strategy of his or her opponent.
A hand scores 3 points for each game that it would win, 0 points for each game that it would lose, and 1 point for each game that would end in a draw. However, a hand scores only 2 points for any match that would have a symmetrical result, regardless of whether the result would be two drawn games or a win for each hand.
The composition of a hand is limited only by a short banned list and a few restrictions on the game states that it can enable; these restrictions are covered in Section 3 – Hand Construction Rules.
2. Game Rules
2.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
2.1a. Changes to the Comprehensive Rules or the Oracle text of a card take effect at the following times:
i. Changes that would take effect during the prerelease for a set take effect during the first round for which cards from that set may be submitted instead.
ii. Changes that would take effect at any other time take effect during the first round for which those rules have been in effect since the start of the round instead.
2.1b. Ignore any part of an instruction that isn't covered by these rules or by the rules of Magic.
2.2. A player's opening hand contains that player's chosen cards.
2.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
2.3a. A player doesn't lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
2.4. An effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of that effect instead.
2.5. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
2.6. Players know the identities of all face-down cards and all cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
2.7. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
2.8. If a loop containing at least one optional action would be repeated indefinitely during a turn, then any player may propose a number of times for that loop to repeat instead. If a player does, then each other player may propose a different number and the loop is repeated for the greatest number of times proposed instead. No player is required to make a choice that would end a loop that crosses multiple turns.
2.9. Cards can't be brought into the game from outside the game.
3. Hand Construction Rules
3.1. A player may not choose an opening hand that would enable him or her to achieve any of the following results before an opponent's second turn would begin, such that that opponent could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in at least one of these results:
i. Win the game.
ii. Take an infinite number of turns.
iii. Cause a card to leave an opponent's hand.
Ignore this rule in the following cases:
3.1a. That player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents' cards had no rules text.
3.1b. That player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents had no maximum hand size.
3.1c. That player could achieve one of these results only during a game that was restarted after an opponent's second turn had begun.
3.1d. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be put onto the battlefield by that effect.
3.1e. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be in that opponent's hand once that effect resolved.
3.2. A hand may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage.
3.2a. An unreleased card is treated as though it's legal in Vintage if it will become legal in Vintage upon release and if the release notes for the set that contains that card were published prior to the start of the round (See rule 4.1).
3.3. A hand may not contain any cards on the PHM Banned List.
4. Entry
4.1. A player plays a round of PHM by submitting a list of his or her chosen cards to the PHM moderator.
4.2. A player may change his or her hand until the posted deadline.
4.2a. If a player submits an illegal hand, then the moderator will try to notify that player to change his or her hand prior to the deadline. If the hand is discovered to be illegal after the deadline has passed – or if the player does not submit a new hand – then the moderator may either disqualify that hand or replace it with a similar hand, in which any cards causing that hand to be illegal have been removed or replaced.
4.2b. The moderator also will try to notify a player if that player's hand doesn't enable that player to win the game against any possible hand.
4.3. A player may name his or her hand. If he or she doesn't, then the moderator may name it. The moderator may also rename a player's hand at his or her discretion.
5. Perfect Hand Magic League (PHML)
5.1. PHM League play consists of four rounds of PHM.
5.2. Each round, a player earns League points according to the following formula:
League Points = Points Scored / Number of Opponents x 100 (rounded to the nearest integer)
5.3. The player with the most League points at the end of League play is the PHM League winner.
5.3a. If multiple players have the most League points at the end of the League, then the PHM moderator may allow those players to play additional rounds until only one of those players has the most League points or until a specified number of additional rounds has been played.
6. Scoring
6.1. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Each row lists one player's result against each other player. A player's points and League points are tallied at the end of his or her row.
6.2. A player may earn bonus League points as specified by the PHM moderator.
6.3. Each player is responsible for determining the match results for his or her hand.
6.3a. Players are encouraged to determine or verify additional match results.
6.3b. An undetermined match result is counted as a loss for both players in that match.
6.3c. A player may challenge any result until the moderator announces that the result is final.
7. Variant Format Rules
7.1. Perfect Hand Magic has been played with hands typically containing between one and seven cards. Additionally, the Game Rules and Hand Construction Rules have been adapted to create hundreds of variant formats. Five commonly-played variants are described in Sections 7.3-7.7.
7.2. The rules of a variant format overwrite any other applicable rules.
7.2a. Some variant formats generate continuous effects. A continuous effect generated by a variant format is treated as having the earliest timestamp within a layer or sublayer. If continuous effects generated by multiple variant formats would apply in the same layer or sublayer, assign timestamps to those effects in the order that the variant formats are listed in the rules or name of the round.
7.2b. Some variant formats require a player to make some number of decisions in addition to or instead of submitting a hand. A player's submission must comply with the Hand Construction Rules, taking into account any decisions made at this time.
7.2c. Some variant formats require players to make decisions "before the start of each game". For these decisions, follow the "Active Player, Nonactive Player order" rule, replacing "active player" with "starting player".
7.3. Land Rule Variant.
7.3a. This is the basic land rule (LR). Any player may play a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.3b. This is the extra land rule (ELR). Any player may play a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.3c. This is the draw land rule (DLR). If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.4a. Only cards contained in sets legal in the named format may be submitted.
7.5. Life Rule (LF).
7.5a. If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game.
7.5b. Irrespective of rule 7.5a, a player must choose an opening hand that enables him or her to win both games of a match against at least one hand, such that the player of the losing hand could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in that player losing the game. The losing hand must conform with the Hand Construction Rules but need not consider this rule.
7.6. Backbuild.
7.6a. Players exchange hands before the start of each match. Each player must choose an opening hand that enables him or her to win both games of a match against a specified hand or specified hands, such that the player of any specified hand could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in the player of that specified hand losing the game. Ignore rule 3.1.
7.7. (Bonus).
7.7a. A player earns bonus points if his or her hand meets specified requirements.
PHM Banned List_________________Land Rule Banned List
Extremely stupid format idea, Pregaming: Each player gets 3/5/X turns against a goldfish, then begins the actual game with their goldfish boardstate. Standard discard/kill rules apply at the game start, so no making a 40/40 Walking Ballista and immediately killing your opponent or whatnot.
Format idea: Self-destruction. If state-based actions would cause you to lose the game, you win the game instead. Each activated ability of an object can only be activated once per turn.
The submission deadline has been extended by 13 hours (approximately 11 hours from the time of this post).
An illegal entry was submitted a few days ago, and I notified the player only yesterday. Removing the offending card would significantly alter the player's hand, and I'd like to give the player the opportunity to submit a new hand.
On a separate note, what do people think of the following rule for use in land rule rounds?
"If a basic land would leave the battlefield or change control before its controller's third turn, that land's controller may choose to have that land remain on the battlefield and/or under his or her control if all of the following are true:
a. That land would be caused to leave the battlefield or change control by a spell or ability controlled by an opponent of that land's controller.
b. That land has no other card types."
I may want to try some variant of this rule with the retrace format (that format will go up when hands for this round are posted).
Superbajt previously had suggested the following:
"A player may not choose an opening hand that would enable him or her to cause an opponent to not being able play a land or lose control of a basic land before the opponent's second turn ends if the opponent plays a land in each of his or her turn. Ignore this rule if the player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents' cards had no rules text."
I mirrored 3.1 with changing "begins" to "ends" to catch T1 Braids, as it is indeed a part of problem.
I like the approach of mirroring the hand submission restrictions for winning the game and forcing cards to leave an opponent's hand, but I remain skeptical of whether such an approach can be cleanly implemented when dealing with permanents.
One further thought: With respect to lands, would it make more sense to place a turn limit as we do for the other restrictions, or would it make more sense not to have a turn limit, if such a rule were implemented?
Re the "can't cause to lose control" rule: Wouldn't this disable, say, T1 Kozilek or something, since annihilator could cause them to do that? Plus, I know that nobody likes to see turbo Capsize, but this would also ban anything cheap that could casually bounce a 'permanent', or lead someone to sacrifice a permanent.
The first option, meanwhile, seems even weirder, since now something like Annihilator can (I think, yes?) make them avoid sacrificing creatures, since they can choose to sacrifice lands and then keep them on the battlefield.
I dunno. I'm not necessarily specifically concerned about keeping Eldrazi or bounce-locks around, and maybe there are few enough cheap cards that would be banned by this that it's worth it. But if this is triggered by the use of Braids recently -- which I don't think has been prevalent enough to justify anything (although if it wins this round again I may reconsider -- then we could just ban Braids. The alternatives are Capsize, which is a lot more difficult to put out T1 or T2, and then... what else?
EDIT: Oh, hands were posted as this was written. Okay, I'll take a look.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
I submitted Overgrown Estate over Overgrown Tomb for the record (and checked the submission to confirm), just a typo from PHM.
2| 6 X 0 6 0? | 12
1. 6-0, I buyback Capsize the Leyline of Punishment (chanting if you're on the play), then play Estate next turn and Capsize lock you.
2. X
3. 0-6 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Ah Leyline of Punishment stops me pretty hard.
4. 6-0. Guildmage is probably a much better wincon (with a useful 4th card). On my play my dino drops before you can do anything, on the draw I On the draw I make 4 lands (2 Islands, 1 Plains, 1 Swamp) and Chant in response to Estate, then un-buyback'd Capsize the estate when it resolves. On my turn I make the Forest, play Estate (you can capsize it in response to the first sac, making me pay for my sixth land), capsize 3 of your lands and play dino. chant on upkeep, jesus I overthought that.
5. 0-6? I think you have this, but I might be able to do something cute, not sure.
I looked into some Lich Mirror decks, but that's more difficult when you're creating a bunch of permanents to shuffle into your library. I did a gatherer search for an upgraded Zuran Orb, found Overgrown Estate and went from there. Carnage Tyrant was a haphazard choice of wincon, nerdy's choice of guildmage is way better.
Re the "can't cause to lose control" rule: Wouldn't this disable, say, T1 Kozilek or something, since annihilator could cause them to do that? Plus, I know that nobody likes to see turbo Capsize, but this would also ban anything cheap that could casually bounce a 'permanent', or lead someone to sacrifice a permanent.
The first option, meanwhile, seems even weirder, since now something like Annihilator can (I think, yes?) make them avoid sacrificing creatures, since they can choose to sacrifice lands and then keep them on the battlefield.
I dunno. I'm not necessarily specifically concerned about keeping Eldrazi or bounce-locks around, and maybe there are few enough cheap cards that would be banned by this that it's worth it. But if this is triggered by the use of Braids recently -- which I don't think has been prevalent enough to justify anything (although if it wins this round again I may reconsider -- then we could just ban Braids. The alternatives are Capsize, which is a lot more difficult to put out T1 or T2, and then... what else?
EDIT: Oh, hands were posted as this was written. Okay, I'll take a look.
The trigger was a combination of Braids, fast Kozileks in some special formats, Land Equilibirum in another recent format, and the new Retrace format (where land locks are easier to achieve).
You raise good points, and I'll respond more thoroughly later.
3) Mogg :: Five-Color Control
Death's Shadow / Leyline of Lifeforce / Leyline of Punishment / Spell Queller
X| 1 2 3 4 5 |
3| 1 6 X 6 6 | 475
1: 1: When I start, I lead with a 5/5 Death's Shadow and hold Queller for CalvinSchwa's Shadow. Pride forecasts for a chump-blocker each turn, and the game draws.
When CS starts, he can create an additional token, such that one token always will be attacking me as the other blocks, and I lose.
2: 6: MC can't lead with Carnie T, because eot Queller would counterattack for lethal.
If MC leads with Capsize on Leyline of Punishment, then I Spell Queller that and win.
MC can lead with Chant into Capsize but then won't have sufficient life remaining to cast Estate on the same turn; I cast Death's Shadow and hold Queller for Estate.
If MC gets into the position of having to Capsize Spell Queller, then he or she can't Capsize Leyline of Punishment effectively.
4: 6: If nerdyjoe leads with Guildmage, then I Queller it. if nerdyjoe Capsizes Queller on the same turn, then I drop to 2 to recast Queller and exile Guildmage again.
If nerdyjoe leads with Capsize on Leyline, then I let it resolve; I also let Estate resolve; I save Queller for Guildmage.
If nerdyjoe eot Capsize-buyback bounces my Shadow, playing for the draw, I Queller it. nerdyjoe can resolve Guildmage then, but will be on 2 life. Guildmage taps down Queller and chump-blocks Shadow. From that point, with two threats again a single Capsize per turn, I win.
5: 6: Reyemile has insufficient life to cast Dismissal and Obstructionist during the same turn, so I can resolve Shadow with Queller protecting it from Dismissal. Queller also provides a blocker for Obstructionist. Shadow attacks until I win.
Tentatively, next week's format will be Reyemile's "Self-Destruction" format posted in the previous thread.
I'll review the suggested ban list and may add to it, but won't have that up until the round is posted.
If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know. Thanks!
2) ManyCookies 0-6 Agreed.
3) Mogg 4-1 Agreed.
4) nerdyjoe 0-6 Yeah Overgrown Estate's pretty good
5) Reyemile 6-0? Leyline of the Void plus Leyline of Punishment means Elixir doesn't do anything. You can counter Shadow, and stop one activation of Pride, but a growing force of 1/1s will eventually trade off with a 3/1 and win.
| X 0 4 0 6 | 10 |
I spent a bunch of time looking at Lich's Mirror decks, but couldn't find anything good enough. I also considered some sort of burn strat to limit the people spending too much mana. What I really expected, though, was Chancellor of the Dross as both a mana-attack and win-con, hence the Leyline of Punishment. Eventually, I settled on my favorite card (Pride of the Clouds) plus a cheap wincon to cast on low life. It worked out... pretty badly with no interaction, but eh.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
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4CH Mana Bazaar 3
Land Rule: None.
Format Rule:
Additional Bans: Dark Depths
Hands:
1) CalvinSchwa
Death's Shadow / Leyline of Punishment / Leyline of the Void / Pride of the Clouds
2) ManyCookies :: Jurassic Park
Capsize / Carnage Tyrant / Orim's Chant / Overgrown Tomb
3) Mogg :: Five-Color Control
Death's Shadow / Leyline of Lifeforce / Leyline of Punishment / Spell Queller
4) nerdyjoe
Azorius Guildmage / Capsize / Overgrown Estate / Vedalken Orrery*
*Replacing Leyline of Anticipation
5) Reyemile
Elixir of Immortality / Nimble Obstructionist / Summary Dismissal / Thwart
X| 1 2 3 4 5 |
1| X 0 4 0 6 | 10 | 250
2| 6 X 0 6 0 | 12 | 300
3| 1 6 X 6 6 | 19 | 475
4| 6 0 0 X 0 | 06 | 150
5| 0 6 0 6 X | 12 | 300
Mogg wins!
Rules and Banned List
Cards on the PHM Banned List are always banned, and cards on the Land Rule Banned List are banned as well when the round uses a Land Rule.
1. Overview
2. Game Rules
3. Hand Construction Rules
4. Entry
5. Perfect Hand Magic League (PHML)
6. Scoring
7. Variant Format Rules
1. Overview
Perfect Hand Magic (PHM) is a competitive strategy game for two or more players. It can be played using pencil and paper; however, it's most commonly played via an online forum. To play the game, each player secretly chooses a specified number of Magic cards which form his or her hand. Once all players have chosen hands, the hands are revealed and scored.
The object of the game is to choose the hand that will score the most points. The score for each hand is determined by the result that it would achieve if it were used to play two games of Magic – one match – against each competing hand; the rules for these theoretical games are covered in Section 2 – Game Rules. During each theoretical game, the player of each hand employs the strategy that maximizes the score for his or her hand, taking into account the strategy of his or her opponent.
A hand scores 3 points for each game that it would win, 0 points for each game that it would lose, and 1 point for each game that would end in a draw. However, a hand scores only 2 points for any match that would have a symmetrical result, regardless of whether the result would be two drawn games or a win for each hand.
The composition of a hand is limited only by a short banned list and a few restrictions on the game states that it can enable; these restrictions are covered in Section 3 – Hand Construction Rules.
2. Game Rules
2.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
ii. Changes that would take effect at any other time take effect during the first round for which those rules have been in effect since the start of the round instead.
2.1b. Ignore any part of an instruction that isn't covered by these rules or by the rules of Magic.
2.2. A player's opening hand contains that player's chosen cards.
2.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
2.4. An effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of that effect instead.
2.5. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
2.6. Players know the identities of all face-down cards and all cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
2.7. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
2.8. If a loop containing at least one optional action would be repeated indefinitely during a turn, then any player may propose a number of times for that loop to repeat instead. If a player does, then each other player may propose a different number and the loop is repeated for the greatest number of times proposed instead. No player is required to make a choice that would end a loop that crosses multiple turns.
2.9. Cards can't be brought into the game from outside the game.
3. Hand Construction Rules
3.1. A player may not choose an opening hand that would enable him or her to achieve any of the following results before an opponent's second turn would begin, such that that opponent could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in at least one of these results:
ii. Take an infinite number of turns.
iii. Cause a card to leave an opponent's hand.
Ignore this rule in the following cases:
3.1b. That player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents had no maximum hand size.
3.1c. That player could achieve one of these results only during a game that was restarted after an opponent's second turn had begun.
3.1d. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be put onto the battlefield by that effect.
3.1e. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be in that opponent's hand once that effect resolved.
3.2. A hand may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage.
3.3. A hand may not contain any cards on the PHM Banned List.
4. Entry
4.1. A player plays a round of PHM by submitting a list of his or her chosen cards to the PHM moderator.
4.2. A player may change his or her hand until the posted deadline.
4.2b. The moderator also will try to notify a player if that player's hand doesn't enable that player to win the game against any possible hand.
4.3. A player may name his or her hand. If he or she doesn't, then the moderator may name it. The moderator may also rename a player's hand at his or her discretion.
5. Perfect Hand Magic League (PHML)
5.1. PHM League play consists of four rounds of PHM.
5.2. Each round, a player earns League points according to the following formula:
5.3. The player with the most League points at the end of League play is the PHM League winner.
6. Scoring
6.1. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Each row lists one player's result against each other player. A player's points and League points are tallied at the end of his or her row.
6.2. A player may earn bonus League points as specified by the PHM moderator.
6.3. Each player is responsible for determining the match results for his or her hand.
6.3b. An undetermined match result is counted as a loss for both players in that match.
6.3c. A player may challenge any result until the moderator announces that the result is final.
7. Variant Format Rules
7.1. Perfect Hand Magic has been played with hands typically containing between one and seven cards. Additionally, the Game Rules and Hand Construction Rules have been adapted to create hundreds of variant formats. Five commonly-played variants are described in Sections 7.3-7.7.
7.2. The rules of a variant format overwrite any other applicable rules.
7.2b. Some variant formats require a player to make some number of decisions in addition to or instead of submitting a hand. A player's submission must comply with the Hand Construction Rules, taking into account any decisions made at this time.
7.2c. Some variant formats require players to make decisions "before the start of each game". For these decisions, follow the "Active Player, Nonactive Player order" rule, replacing "active player" with "starting player".
7.3. Land Rule Variant.
7.3b. This is the extra land rule (ELR). Any player may play a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.3c. This is the draw land rule (DLR). If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.4. Sanctioned Magic Format Variant.
7.5. Life Rule (LF).
7.5b. Irrespective of rule 7.5a, a player must choose an opening hand that enables him or her to win both games of a match against at least one hand, such that the player of the losing hand could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in that player losing the game. The losing hand must conform with the Hand Construction Rules but need not consider this rule.
7.6. Backbuild.
7.7. (Bonus).
Beast Within________________________Beacon of Creation
Chancellor of the Annex_____________Black Lotus
Channel_____________________________Energy Field
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn_____________Maralen of the Mornsong
Fastbond____________________________Nezumi Shortfang
Flash_______________________________Red Sun's Zenith
Force of Will_______________________White Sun's Zenith
Ghost Quarter
Laboratory Maniac
Leyline of Anticipation
Leyline of Singularity
Leyline of the Meek
Magus of the Moon
Meddling Mage
Pact of Negation
Show and Tell
Strip Mine
The Rack
Trinisphere
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Vampire Hexmage
Wasteland
Channel_____________________________Black Lotus
Fastbond
Flash
Show and Tell
Disruption
Beast Within________________________Balancing Act
Chancellor of the Annex_____________Energy Field
Force of Will
Leyline of Anticipation
Leyline of Singularity
Pact of Negation
Trinisphere
Lands
Ghost Quarter
Strip Mine
Wasteland
Win Conditions
Barren Glory________________________Beacon of Creation
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn_____________Maralen of the Mornsong
Laboratory Maniac___________________Nezumi Shortfang
Leyline of the Meek_________________Red Sun's Zenith
Magus of the Moon___________________White Sun's Zenith
Meddling Mage
The Rack
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Vampire Hexmage
Format Ideas?
Additional Resources
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Ban list:
2CH DLR Retrace
Land Rule: Draw Land Rule.
Format Rule:
Additional Bans: Time Walk
Please post if you have any comments or suggestions!
I believe this one was Feyd_Ruin's suggestion a few months ago.
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The submission deadline has been extended by 13 hours (approximately 11 hours from the time of this post).
An illegal entry was submitted a few days ago, and I notified the player only yesterday. Removing the offending card would significantly alter the player's hand, and I'd like to give the player the opportunity to submit a new hand.
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"If a basic land would leave the battlefield or change control before its controller's third turn, that land's controller may choose to have that land remain on the battlefield and/or under his or her control if all of the following are true:
b. That land has no other card types."
I may want to try some variant of this rule with the retrace format (that format will go up when hands for this round are posted).
Superbajt previously had suggested the following:
I like the approach of mirroring the hand submission restrictions for winning the game and forcing cards to leave an opponent's hand, but I remain skeptical of whether such an approach can be cleanly implemented when dealing with permanents.
One further thought: With respect to lands, would it make more sense to place a turn limit as we do for the other restrictions, or would it make more sense not to have a turn limit, if such a rule were implemented?
Please let me know your thoughts, thanks!
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Please take a look and score your row.
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The first option, meanwhile, seems even weirder, since now something like Annihilator can (I think, yes?) make them avoid sacrificing creatures, since they can choose to sacrifice lands and then keep them on the battlefield.
I dunno. I'm not necessarily specifically concerned about keeping Eldrazi or bounce-locks around, and maybe there are few enough cheap cards that would be banned by this that it's worth it. But if this is triggered by the use of Braids recently -- which I don't think has been prevalent enough to justify anything (although if it wins this round again I may reconsider -- then we could just ban Braids. The alternatives are Capsize, which is a lot more difficult to put out T1 or T2, and then... what else?
EDIT: Oh, hands were posted as this was written. Okay, I'll take a look.
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
2| 6 X 0 6 0? | 12
1. 6-0, I buyback Capsize the Leyline of Punishment (chanting if you're on the play), then play Estate next turn and Capsize lock you.
2. X
3. 0-6
¯\_(ツ)_/¯Ah Leyline of Punishment stops me pretty hard.4. 6-0. Guildmage is probably a much better wincon (with a useful 4th card). On my play my dino drops before you can do anything, on the draw I
On the draw I make 4 lands (2 Islands, 1 Plains, 1 Swamp) and Chant in response to Estate, then un-buyback'd Capsize the estate when it resolves. On my turn I make the Forest, play Estate (you can capsize it in response to the first sac, making me pay for my sixth land), capsize 3 of your lands and play dino.chant on upkeep, jesus I overthought that.5. 0-6? I think you have this, but I might be able to do something cute, not sure.
I looked into some Lich Mirror decks, but that's more difficult when you're creating a bunch of permanents to shuffle into your library. I did a gatherer search for an upgraded Zuran Orb, found Overgrown Estate and went from there. Carnage Tyrant was a haphazard choice of wincon, nerdy's choice of guildmage is way better.
The trigger was a combination of Braids, fast Kozileks in some special formats, Land Equilibirum in another recent format, and the new Retrace format (where land locks are easier to achieve).
You raise good points, and I'll respond more thoroughly later.
Fixed. Sorry about that.
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3) Mogg :: Five-Color Control
Death's Shadow / Leyline of Lifeforce / Leyline of Punishment / Spell Queller
X| 1 2 3 4 5 |
3| 1 6 X 6 6 | 475
1: 1: When I start, I lead with a 5/5 Death's Shadow and hold Queller for CalvinSchwa's Shadow. Pride forecasts for a chump-blocker each turn, and the game draws.
When CS starts, he can create an additional token, such that one token always will be attacking me as the other blocks, and I lose.
2: 6: MC can't lead with Carnie T, because eot Queller would counterattack for lethal.
If MC leads with Capsize on Leyline of Punishment, then I Spell Queller that and win.
MC can lead with Chant into Capsize but then won't have sufficient life remaining to cast Estate on the same turn; I cast Death's Shadow and hold Queller for Estate.
If MC gets into the position of having to Capsize Spell Queller, then he or she can't Capsize Leyline of Punishment effectively.
4: 6: If nerdyjoe leads with Guildmage, then I Queller it. if nerdyjoe Capsizes Queller on the same turn, then I drop to 2 to recast Queller and exile Guildmage again.
If nerdyjoe leads with Capsize on Leyline, then I let it resolve; I also let Estate resolve; I save Queller for Guildmage.
If nerdyjoe eot Capsize-buyback bounces my Shadow, playing for the draw, I Queller it. nerdyjoe can resolve Guildmage then, but will be on 2 life. Guildmage taps down Queller and chump-blocks Shadow. From that point, with two threats again a single Capsize per turn, I win.
5: 6: Reyemile has insufficient life to cast Dismissal and Obstructionist during the same turn, so I can resolve Shadow with Queller protecting it from Dismissal. Queller also provides a blocker for Obstructionist. Shadow attacks until I win.
Two concepts that I was interested in but didn't manage to incorporate into a hand:
Providence
Children of Korlis + Phyrexian Reclamation
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
I'll review the suggested ban list and may add to it, but won't have that up until the round is posted.
If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know. Thanks!
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3) Mogg 4-1 Agreed.
4) nerdyjoe 0-6 Yeah Overgrown Estate's pretty good
5) Reyemile 6-0? Leyline of the Void plus Leyline of Punishment means Elixir doesn't do anything. You can counter Shadow, and stop one activation of Pride, but a growing force of 1/1s will eventually trade off with a 3/1 and win.
| X 0 4 0 6 | 10 |
I spent a bunch of time looking at Lich's Mirror decks, but couldn't find anything good enough. I also considered some sort of burn strat to limit the people spending too much mana. What I really expected, though, was Chancellor of the Dross as both a mana-attack and win-con, hence the Leyline of Punishment. Eventually, I settled on my favorite card (Pride of the Clouds) plus a cheap wincon to cast on low life. It worked out... pretty badly with no interaction, but eh.
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.