"At the beginning of each player's upkeep, you may add or remove a +1/+1 counter, a -1/-1 counter, or a counter of a type a permanent you control could produce to/from a permanent you control. This ability can't be countered."
Be sure to review the rules and banned list(s) by clicking below.
Cards on the PHM Banned List are always banned, and cards on the Land Rule Banned List are banned as well when the round uses a Land Rule.
Contents
1. Overview
2. Game Rules
3. Hand Construction Rules
4. Entry
5. Perfect Hand Magic League (PHML)
6. Scoring
7. Variant Format Rules
1. Overview
Perfect Hand Magic (PHM) is a competitive strategy game for two or more players. It can be played using pencil and paper; however, it's most commonly played via an online forum. To play the game, each player secretly chooses a specified number of Magic cards which form his or her hand. Once all players have chosen hands, the hands are revealed and scored.
The object of the game is to choose the hand that will score the most points. The score for each hand is determined by the result that it would achieve if it were used to play two games of Magic – one match – against each competing hand; the rules for these theoretical games are covered in Section 2 – Game Rules. During each theoretical game, the player of each hand employs the strategy that maximizes the score for his or her hand, taking into account the strategy of his or her opponent.
A hand scores 3 points for each game that it would win, 0 points for each game that it would lose, and 1 point for each game that would end in a draw. However, a hand scores only 2 points for any match that would have a symmetrical result, regardless of whether the result would be two drawn games or a win for each hand.
The composition of a hand is limited only by a short banned list and a few restrictions on the game states that it can enable; these restrictions are covered in Section 3 – Hand Construction Rules.
2. Game Rules
2.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
2.1a. Changes to the Comprehensive Rules or the Oracle text of a card take effect at the following times:
i. Changes that would take effect during the prerelease for a set take effect during the first round for which cards from that set may be submitted instead.
ii. Changes that would take effect at any other time take effect during the first round for which those rules have been in effect since the start of the round instead.
2.1b. Ignore any part of an instruction that isn't covered by these rules or by the rules of Magic.
2.2. A player's opening hand contains that player's chosen cards.
2.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
2.3a. A player doesn't lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
2.4. An effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of that effect instead.
2.5. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
2.6. Players know the identities of all face-down cards and all cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
2.7. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
2.8. If a loop containing at least one optional action would be repeated indefinitely during a turn, then any player may propose a number of times for that loop to repeat instead. If a player does, then each other player may propose a different number and the loop is repeated for the greatest number of times proposed instead. No player is required to make a choice that would end a loop that crosses multiple turns.
2.9. Cards can't be brought into the game from outside the game.
3. Hand Construction Rules
3.1. A player may not choose an opening hand that would enable him or her to achieve any of the following results before an opponent's second turn would begin, such that that opponent could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in at least one of these results:
i. Win the game.
ii. Take an infinite number of turns.
iii. Cause a card to leave an opponent's hand.
Ignore this rule in the following cases:
3.1a. That player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents' cards had no rules text.
3.1b. That player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents had no maximum hand size.
3.1c. That player could achieve one of these results only during a game that was restarted after an opponent's second turn had begun.
3.1d. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be put onto the battlefield by that effect.
3.1e. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be in that opponent's hand once that effect resolved.
3.2. A hand may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage.
3.2a. An unreleased card is treated as though it's legal in Vintage if it will become legal in Vintage upon release and if the release notes for the set that contains that card were published prior to the start of the round (See rule 4.1).
3.3. A hand may not contain any cards on the PHM Banned List.
4. Entry
4.1. A player plays a round of PHM by submitting a list of his or her chosen cards to the PHM moderator.
4.2. A player may change his or her hand until the posted deadline.
4.2a. If a player submits an illegal hand, then the moderator will try to notify that player to change his or her hand prior to the deadline. If the hand is discovered to be illegal after the deadline has passed – or if the player does not submit a new hand – then the moderator may either disqualify that hand or replace it with a similar hand, in which any cards causing that hand to be illegal have been removed or replaced.
4.2b. The moderator also will try to notify a player if that player's hand doesn't enable that player to win the game against any possible hand.
4.3. A player may name his or her hand. If he or she doesn't, then the moderator may name it. The moderator may also rename a player's hand at his or her discretion.
5. Perfect Hand Magic League (PHML)
5.1. PHM League play consists of four rounds of PHM.
5.2. Each round, a player earns League points according to the following formula:
League Points = Points Scored / Number of Opponents x 100 (rounded to the nearest integer)
5.3. The player with the most League points at the end of League play is the PHM League winner.
5.3a. If multiple players have the most League points at the end of the League, then the PHM moderator may allow those players to play additional rounds until only one of those players has the most League points or until a specified number of additional rounds has been played.
6. Scoring
6.1. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Each row lists one player's result against each other player. A player's points and League points are tallied at the end of his or her row.
6.2. A player may earn bonus League points as specified by the PHM moderator.
6.3. Each player is responsible for determining the match results for his or her hand.
6.3a. Players are encouraged to determine or verify additional match results.
6.3b. An undetermined match result is counted as a loss for both players in that match.
6.3c. A player may challenge any result until the moderator announces that the result is final.
7. Variant Format Rules
7.1. Perfect Hand Magic has been played with hands typically containing between one and seven cards. Additionally, the Game Rules and Hand Construction Rules have been adapted to create hundreds of variant formats. Five commonly-played variants are described in Sections 7.3-7.7.
7.2. The rules of a variant format overwrite any other applicable rules.
7.2a. Some variant formats generate continuous effects. A continuous effect generated by a variant format is treated as having the earliest timestamp within a layer or sublayer. If continuous effects generated by multiple variant formats would apply in the same layer or sublayer, assign timestamps to those effects in the order that the variant formats are listed in the rules or name of the round.
7.2b. Some variant formats require a player to make some number of decisions in addition to or instead of submitting a hand. A player's submission must comply with the Hand Construction Rules, taking into account any decisions made at this time.
7.2c. Some variant formats require players to make decisions "before the start of each game". For these decisions, follow the "Active Player, Nonactive Player order" rule, replacing "active player" with "starting player".
7.3. Land Rule Variant.
7.3a. This is the basic land rule (LR). Any player may play a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.3b. This is the extra land rule (ELR). Any player may play a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.3c. This is the draw land rule (DLR). If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.4a. Only cards contained in sets legal in the named format may be submitted.
7.5. Life Rule (LF).
7.5a. If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game.
7.5b. Irrespective of rule 7.5a, a player must choose an opening hand that enables him or her to win both games of a match against at least one hand, such that the player of the losing hand could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in that player losing the game. The losing hand must conform with the Hand Construction Rules but need not consider this rule.
7.6. Backbuild.
7.6a. Players exchange hands before the start of each match. Each player must choose an opening hand that enables him or her to win both games of a match against a specified hand or specified hands, such that the player of any specified hand could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in the player of that specified hand losing the game. Ignore rule 3.1.
7.7. (Bonus).
7.7a. A player earns bonus points if his or her hand meets specified requirements.
PHM Banned List_________________Land Rule Banned List
Some questions about the round rule due to its wording ("could produce", which is otherwise only used in Magic when referring to lands producing mana.)
From Comprehensive Rules 106.7
Some abilities produce mana based on the type of mana another permanent or permanents “could
produce.” The type of mana a permanent could produce at any time includes any type of mana that
an ability of that permanent
would produce if the ability were to resolve at that time, taking into
account any applicable replacement effects in any possible order. Ignore whether any costs of the
ability could or could not be paid. If that permanent wouldn’t produce any mana under these
conditions, or no type of mana can be defined this way, there’s no type of mana it could produce.
Presumably here we replace "mana" with "counter". This creates confusion for anything which "enters the battlefield with" some counters.
For example, would a Myojin of Life's Web allow you to place divinity counters on anything? There is an ability (its first one) which produces a counter, but it is a sort of replacement effect, and doesn't ever actually resolve.
There's also the line of "Ignore whether any costs of the ability could or could not be paid", and the question of how that works with planeswalker loyalty abilities. Furthermore, I'm curious if Sarkhan the Mad 'could produce' a loyalty counter: no ability of the card gave him his initial counters, but rather the rules for the planeswalker card type.
Could an unequipped Hankyu produce aim counters? It doesn't have any ability to generate them, but rather gives that ability to an equipped creature. There's also the question of conditional counters such as with Rasputin Dreamweaver's fourth ability in the oracle text, which has you place a counter on him only if he began the turn untapped. This is not a cost, and so if you ignore his first ability about entering the battlefield, he could only sometimes produce a dream counter.
"At the beginning of each player's upkeep, you may add or remove a +1/+1 counter, a -1/-1 counter, a loyalty counter, or a counter of a type a permanent you control mentions in its text to/from a permanent you control. This ability can't be countered."
This is maximally permissive, which I think is probably the most interesting way for it to be?
An interesting note is that Planeswalkers do not mention loyalty counters in their texts. They just have loyalty symbols, and CR 107.7 tells us what they mean.
I like Personman's wording. Further, I apologize for my bad habit of not noticing this stuff before the round is actually posted. I don't think of a lot of it until I'm actually evaluating cards for the hand, which I don't generally do until the round is posted.
Personman's suggestion is a very minimal change in the existing rules (maybe if something wants a loyalty counter on a non-planeswalker permanent?) that makes everything a lot more clear.
My wording lets you put loyalty counters on non-planeswalker permanents; I added an explicit "a loyalty counter," clause to the list to maintain this vital feature. I bolded the parts I added because I figured it would be easy to miss, but the forum's italic font is only barely distinguishable from bold italics :/
My wording lets you put loyalty counters on non-planeswalker permanents
Right, I'm saying that's technically a change in functionality from the original rules. It's just not likely to matter in a gameplay sense. Typically whoever-it-is-I-don't-actually-know that manages the PerfectHandMagic account likes to avoid functional rules changes after a round is already posted.
The re-wording makes it clear and is reasonably unlikely to negatively or positively affect any strategies that someone may already have devised.
"At the beginning of each player's upkeep, you may add or remove a +1/+1 counter, a -1/-1 counter, a loyalty counter, or a counter of a type a permanent you control mentions in its rules text to/from a permanent you control. This ability can't be countered."
Accepted - I've added one word (in red), for clarity (i.e., don't start abusing reminder text).
Right, I'm saying that's technically a change in functionality from the original rules. It's just not likely to matter in a gameplay sense. Typically whoever-it-is-I-don't-actually-know that manages the PerfectHandMagic account likes to avoid functional rules changes after a round is already posted.
The re-wording makes it clear and is reasonably unlikely to negatively or positively affect any strategies that someone may already have devised.
I do attempt to maintain consistent rules, meaning that any interaction should have a clear result. Since that wasn't the case with the original rule set, I'm happy to incorporate the update.
The PHM account has been managed by tomsloger, Feyd_Ruin, Mogg (that's me), and at least one other player. I've been running the game since May, and Feyd_Ruin will take over for three weeks in October.
Thanks to both of you for the quick catch and save.
Hands have been posted!
Please take a look and score your row.
I was aware of Chalice when I made the round, but admittedly was surprised by its prevelance.
Sadly, no one played Tin-Wing Chimera. I love that cycle.
5) knobbodi
Chalice of the Void / Evil Presence / Slippery Bogle / Undiscovered Paradise
VS:
1) Anachronity
Chalice of the Void / Chancellor of the Forge / Gemstone Caverns / Steel Sabotage
--Steel Sabotage seems [i]real[/i] good this week, and I can't race your goblin token because you can stack the round trigger to get it to be a 2/2 on my first turn 0-6
--On the play, I can get chalice to 3 before you can cast your 2nd spell. Bogle would race Censer, so you use Tangle Wire to lock it down indefinitely. On the draw, you can just alternate wire and censer. 1-4
6) Personman
Chalice of the Void / Dark Depths / Island / Tidal Warrior
--On the play, I keep chalice on 0 and play bogle, with presence to stop dark depths. On your play, chalice on 1. 3-3
7) WhammeWhamme
Chalice of the Void / City of Traitors / Hangarback Walker / Umezawa's Jitte
--On the play, chalice on 0 can let me play bogle and presence, but at some point you can chump bogle with hangarback walker and race me with tokens. On the draw, chalice locks me out 0-6
2) Sabotage stops Vial and I... don't see how you can ever attack with Mutavault? I might be missing something. ~ 6-0
3) The goblin is always bigger than Revoker because you need to slow down to get Chalice up to 1. ~ 6-0
4) Sabatoge stops Wire. ~ 6-0
5) goblin is always bigger than Bogle. ~ 6-0
6) goblin wins faster than Depths, and is always bigger than Warrior. ~ 6-0
7) this one gets more complicated... ~ 3-3
OTP I put a luck counter on Caverns during your upkeep, then counter whichever artifact you play first. At your next upkeep my Chalice has 2 counters.
OTD You get two turns to play things. You lead with Chalice for 1 to force the counter, then play Hangerback for 1. You live long enough to get 8 thopters, which chump my goblin for as long as you need.
X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 |
5| X 6 6 6 6 6 3 | 32 | 533
I really, really, really expected Workshop + Lux Cannon. It's a vindicate every turn-and-a-half.
Steel Sabotage is a pet Commander card for me, and I've been wanting to find a hand to run Gemstone Caverns. Chancellor of the Forge goblin can always be buffed on your first upkeep because the round rule doesn't target. All of the cards I was afraid of are artifacts, including Inkmoth. Thus: my hand.
Caverns + Sabotage is beautiful and exactly what I spent most of my time looking for (a good solution to Chalice), but not finding. I also had Chancellor in my deck for a while, but totally failed to think through just how good getting to put a counter on in the first upkeep is. Plus I was looking at it together with a red storage land to actually cast Chancellor, and maybe Blood Moon, but abandoned that line as just not fast enough. Really nicely done.
Will edit in my matches tomorrow.
6 | 0 3 1 0 3 X 0 | 5 | 71
Matches:
6) Personman
Chalice of the Void / Dark Depths / Island / Tidal Warrior
vs
1) Anachronity
Chalice of the Void / Chancellor of the Forge / Gemstone Caverns / Steel Sabotage
3) Choptimist
Chalice of the Void / City of Traitors / Field of Ruin / Phyrexian Revoker
On your play, I can't get Warrior or Depths and Revoker wins. On my play, Warrior keeps up with Revoker and can always trade. I can't get Depths because of Field, and I can't stop Field for two reasons: because Revoker names Warrior, and because even if it didn't, if I tap Warrior I lose to Revoker. 1-4.
I was looking for a Workshop deck for a while, Tangle Wire is nice. I have nothing against it. 0-6.
5) knobbodi
Chalice of the Void / Evil Presence / Slippery Bogle / Undiscovered Paradise
On my play, no Bogle or Presence for you, and I just win. On your play, Bogle is always one bigger, so I can't block, and it wins right before Marit comes out. I really should have figured out that Depths couldn't race a 1/1 before submitting it. 3-3
7) WhammeWhamme
Chalice of the Void / City of Traitors / Hangarback Walker / Umezawa's Jitte
vs. 01 Anachronity: OTP, I drop Chalice for 0. If it gets Sabotaged, Walker for 1. Otherwise pass the turn.
In my next upkeep, tick Chalice to 1 (to counter Sabotage) and drop Walker for 1. 3-3
vs. 02 CalvinSchwa: T1 Jitte kills Kiki-Jiki. 6-0
vs. 03 Choptimist: Walker beats Revoker. 6-0
vs. 04 Feyd_Ruin: Jitte and Censor cancel out. 2-2
vs. 05 knobbodi: Walker beats Bogle. 6-0
vs. 06 Personman: Hangarback handily races Marit Lage coming out. 6-0
@Choptimist: Good point (not sure how I managed to forget a key part of my own deck), but do note that Chalice is symmetrical, so if you lead with Chalice for 2, you block your own Revoker. So you can tie, but not win.
0- 6 Anachronity :: This is a gorgeous hand, and yes, I lose hard. As for Mutavault: technically i can do things with Kiki-Jiki or Exarch, but really it's cause I didn't want to go looking through all the nonbasic lands again.
0-6 Choptimist :: Yup, Revoker on Vial.
6-0 Feyd_Ruin :: Pretty sure I just sorta combo off unimpeded here.
3-3 knobbodi :: Yup, first to Vial or Chalice.
3-3 Personman :: Vial v Chalice.
0-6 WhammeWhamme :: Yeah, true with Jitte.
|0 X 0 6 3 3 0 | 10 |
@PerfectHandMagic: I like the new layout for the banned lists!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
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4CH Growth
Land Rule: None.
Format Rule:
Hands:
1) Anachronity
Chalice of the Void / Chancellor of the Forge / Gemstone Caverns / Steel Sabotage
2) CalvinSchwa
Aether Vial / Deceiver Exarch / Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker / Mutavault
3) Choptimist
Chalice of the Void / City of Traitors / Field of Ruin / Phyrexian Revoker
4) Feyd_Ruin
Mishra's Workshop / Mishra's Workshop / Necrogen Censer / Tangle Wire
5) knobbodi
Chalice of the Void / Evil Presence / Slippery Bogle / Undiscovered Paradise
6) Personman
Chalice of the Void / Dark Depths / Island / Tidal Warrior
7) WhammeWhamme
Chalice of the Void / City of Traitors / Hangarback Walker / Umezawa's Jitte
Results:
X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
1| X 6 6 6 6 6 3 | 32 | 533
2| 0 X 0 6 3 3 0 | 10 | 167
3| 0 6 X 2 4 4 1 | 17 | 283
4| 0 0 2 X 4 6 2 | 14 | 233
5| 0 3 1 1 X 3 0 | 06 | 100
6| 0 3 1 0 3 X 0 | 05 | 071
7| 3 6 4 2 6 6 X | 26 | 433
Anachronity wins!
Rules and Banned List
Cards on the PHM Banned List are always banned, and cards on the Land Rule Banned List are banned as well when the round uses a Land Rule.
1. Overview
2. Game Rules
3. Hand Construction Rules
4. Entry
5. Perfect Hand Magic League (PHML)
6. Scoring
7. Variant Format Rules
1. Overview
Perfect Hand Magic (PHM) is a competitive strategy game for two or more players. It can be played using pencil and paper; however, it's most commonly played via an online forum. To play the game, each player secretly chooses a specified number of Magic cards which form his or her hand. Once all players have chosen hands, the hands are revealed and scored.
The object of the game is to choose the hand that will score the most points. The score for each hand is determined by the result that it would achieve if it were used to play two games of Magic – one match – against each competing hand; the rules for these theoretical games are covered in Section 2 – Game Rules. During each theoretical game, the player of each hand employs the strategy that maximizes the score for his or her hand, taking into account the strategy of his or her opponent.
A hand scores 3 points for each game that it would win, 0 points for each game that it would lose, and 1 point for each game that would end in a draw. However, a hand scores only 2 points for any match that would have a symmetrical result, regardless of whether the result would be two drawn games or a win for each hand.
The composition of a hand is limited only by a short banned list and a few restrictions on the game states that it can enable; these restrictions are covered in Section 3 – Hand Construction Rules.
2. Game Rules
2.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
ii. Changes that would take effect at any other time take effect during the first round for which those rules have been in effect since the start of the round instead.
2.1b. Ignore any part of an instruction that isn't covered by these rules or by the rules of Magic.
2.2. A player's opening hand contains that player's chosen cards.
2.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
2.4. An effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of that effect instead.
2.5. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
2.6. Players know the identities of all face-down cards and all cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
2.7. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
2.8. If a loop containing at least one optional action would be repeated indefinitely during a turn, then any player may propose a number of times for that loop to repeat instead. If a player does, then each other player may propose a different number and the loop is repeated for the greatest number of times proposed instead. No player is required to make a choice that would end a loop that crosses multiple turns.
2.9. Cards can't be brought into the game from outside the game.
3. Hand Construction Rules
3.1. A player may not choose an opening hand that would enable him or her to achieve any of the following results before an opponent's second turn would begin, such that that opponent could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in at least one of these results:
ii. Take an infinite number of turns.
iii. Cause a card to leave an opponent's hand.
Ignore this rule in the following cases:
3.1b. That player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents had no maximum hand size.
3.1c. That player could achieve one of these results only during a game that was restarted after an opponent's second turn had begun.
3.1d. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be put onto the battlefield by that effect.
3.1e. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be in that opponent's hand once that effect resolved.
3.2. A hand may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage.
3.3. A hand may not contain any cards on the PHM Banned List.
4. Entry
4.1. A player plays a round of PHM by submitting a list of his or her chosen cards to the PHM moderator.
4.2. A player may change his or her hand until the posted deadline.
4.2b. The moderator also will try to notify a player if that player's hand doesn't enable that player to win the game against any possible hand.
4.3. A player may name his or her hand. If he or she doesn't, then the moderator may name it. The moderator may also rename a player's hand at his or her discretion.
5. Perfect Hand Magic League (PHML)
5.1. PHM League play consists of four rounds of PHM.
5.2. Each round, a player earns League points according to the following formula:
5.3. The player with the most League points at the end of League play is the PHM League winner.
6. Scoring
6.1. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Each row lists one player's result against each other player. A player's points and League points are tallied at the end of his or her row.
6.2. A player may earn bonus League points as specified by the PHM moderator.
6.3. Each player is responsible for determining the match results for his or her hand.
6.3b. An undetermined match result is counted as a loss for both players in that match.
6.3c. A player may challenge any result until the moderator announces that the result is final.
7. Variant Format Rules
7.1. Perfect Hand Magic has been played with hands typically containing between one and seven cards. Additionally, the Game Rules and Hand Construction Rules have been adapted to create hundreds of variant formats. Five commonly-played variants are described in Sections 7.3-7.7.
7.2. The rules of a variant format overwrite any other applicable rules.
7.2b. Some variant formats require a player to make some number of decisions in addition to or instead of submitting a hand. A player's submission must comply with the Hand Construction Rules, taking into account any decisions made at this time.
7.2c. Some variant formats require players to make decisions "before the start of each game". For these decisions, follow the "Active Player, Nonactive Player order" rule, replacing "active player" with "starting player".
7.3. Land Rule Variant.
7.3b. This is the extra land rule (ELR). Any player may play a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.3c. This is the draw land rule (DLR). If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.4. Sanctioned Magic Format Variant.
7.5. Life Rule (LF).
7.5b. Irrespective of rule 7.5a, a player must choose an opening hand that enables him or her to win both games of a match against at least one hand, such that the player of the losing hand could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in that player losing the game. The losing hand must conform with the Hand Construction Rules but need not consider this rule.
7.6. Backbuild.
7.7. (Bonus).
Beast Within________________________Beacon of Creation
Chancellor of the Annex_____________Black Lotus
Channel_____________________________Energy Field
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn_____________Maralen of the Mornsong
Fastbond____________________________Nezumi Shortfang
Flash_______________________________Red Sun's Zenith
Force of Will_______________________White Sun's Zenith
Ghost Quarter
Laboratory Maniac
Leyline of Anticipation
Leyline of Singularity
Leyline of the Meek
Magus of the Moon
Meddling Mage
Pact of Negation
Show and Tell
Strip Mine
The Rack
Trinisphere
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Vampire Hexmage
Wasteland
Channel_____________________________Black Lotus
Fastbond
Flash
Show and Tell
Disruption
Beast Within________________________Balancing Act
Chancellor of the Annex_____________Energy Field
Force of Will
Leyline of Anticipation
Leyline of Singularity
Pact of Negation
Trinisphere
Lands
Ghost Quarter
Strip Mine
Wasteland
Win Conditions
Barren Glory________________________Beacon of Creation
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn_____________Maralen of the Mornsong
Laboratory Maniac___________________Nezumi Shortfang
Leyline of the Meek_________________Red Sun's Zenith
Magus of the Moon___________________White Sun's Zenith
Meddling Mage
The Rack
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Vampire Hexmage
Format Ideas?
Additional Resources
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It does! Thanks, I seem to have missed a few details tonight.
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From Comprehensive Rules 106.7
Presumably here we replace "mana" with "counter". This creates confusion for anything which "enters the battlefield with" some counters.
For example, would a Myojin of Life's Web allow you to place divinity counters on anything? There is an ability (its first one) which produces a counter, but it is a sort of replacement effect, and doesn't ever actually resolve.
There's also the line of "Ignore whether any costs of the ability could or could not be paid", and the question of how that works with planeswalker loyalty abilities. Furthermore, I'm curious if Sarkhan the Mad 'could produce' a loyalty counter: no ability of the card gave him his initial counters, but rather the rules for the planeswalker card type.
Could an unequipped Hankyu produce aim counters? It doesn't have any ability to generate them, but rather gives that ability to an equipped creature. There's also the question of conditional counters such as with Rasputin Dreamweaver's fourth ability in the oracle text, which has you place a counter on him only if he began the turn untapped. This is not a cost, and so if you ignore his first ability about entering the battlefield, he could only sometimes produce a dream counter.
- Rabid Wombat
This is maximally permissive, which I think is probably the most interesting way for it to be?
An interesting note is that Planeswalkers do not mention loyalty counters in their texts. They just have loyalty symbols, and CR 107.7 tells us what they mean.
Personman's suggestion is a very minimal change in the existing rules (maybe if something wants a loyalty counter on a non-planeswalker permanent?) that makes everything a lot more clear.
- Rabid Wombat
Right, I'm saying that's technically a change in functionality from the original rules. It's just not likely to matter in a gameplay sense. Typically whoever-it-is-I-don't-actually-know that manages the PerfectHandMagic account likes to avoid functional rules changes after a round is already posted.
The re-wording makes it clear and is reasonably unlikely to negatively or positively affect any strategies that someone may already have devised.
- Rabid Wombat
Accepted - I've added one word (in red), for clarity (i.e., don't start abusing reminder text).
I do attempt to maintain consistent rules, meaning that any interaction should have a clear result. Since that wasn't the case with the original rule set, I'm happy to incorporate the update.
The PHM account has been managed by tomsloger, Feyd_Ruin, Mogg (that's me), and at least one other player. I've been running the game since May, and Feyd_Ruin will take over for three weeks in October.
Thanks to both of you for the quick catch and save.
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2CH ELR Super Static Orb
Hand Size: 2 cards.
Land Rule: Extra Land Rule.
Format Rule:
Players can't untap more than one permanent during their untap steps.
Please post if you have any comments or suggestions!
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Please take a look and score your row.
I was aware of Chalice when I made the round, but admittedly was surprised by its prevelance.
Sadly, no one played Tin-Wing Chimera. I love that cycle.
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Chalice of the Void / Evil Presence / Slippery Bogle / Undiscovered Paradise
VS:
1) Anachronity
Chalice of the Void / Chancellor of the Forge / Gemstone Caverns / Steel Sabotage
--Steel Sabotage seems [i]real[/i] good this week, and I can't race your goblin token because you can stack the round trigger to get it to be a 2/2 on my first turn 0-6
2) CalvinSchwa
Aether Vial / Deceiver Exarch / Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker / Mutavault
--Can't do anything about resolved vial, but on my play chalice+presence gets me there 3-3
3) Choptimist
Chalice of the Void / City of Traitors / Field of Ruin / Phyrexian Revoker
--Since you can cast Revoker on turn 1, I can't lock you out so Bogle stares down Revoker on my play. Chalice+Revoker beats me on the draw 1-4
4) Feyd_Ruin
Mishra's Workshop / Mishra's Workshop / Necrogen Censer / Tangle Wire
--On the play, I can get chalice to 3 before you can cast your 2nd spell. Bogle would race Censer, so you use Tangle Wire to lock it down indefinitely. On the draw, you can just alternate wire and censer. 1-4
6) Personman
Chalice of the Void / Dark Depths / Island / Tidal Warrior
--On the play, I keep chalice on 0 and play bogle, with presence to stop dark depths. On your play, chalice on 1. 3-3
7) WhammeWhamme
Chalice of the Void / City of Traitors / Hangarback Walker / Umezawa's Jitte
--On the play, chalice on 0 can let me play bogle and presence, but at some point you can chump bogle with hangarback walker and race me with tokens. On the draw, chalice locks me out 0-6
X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 |
5| 0 3 1 1 X 3 0 | 6 | 100
I have [i]not/i] been having a good few weeks
3) The goblin is always bigger than Revoker because you need to slow down to get Chalice up to 1. ~ 6-0
4) Sabatoge stops Wire. ~ 6-0
5) goblin is always bigger than Bogle. ~ 6-0
6) goblin wins faster than Depths, and is always bigger than Warrior. ~ 6-0
7) this one gets more complicated... ~ 3-3
OTP I put a luck counter on Caverns during your upkeep, then counter whichever artifact you play first. At your next upkeep my Chalice has 2 counters.
OTD You get two turns to play things. You lead with Chalice for 1 to force the counter, then play Hangerback for 1. You live long enough to get 8 thopters, which chump my goblin for as long as you need.
5| X 6 6 6 6 6 3 | 32 | 533
I really, really, really expected Workshop + Lux Cannon. It's a vindicate every turn-and-a-half.
Steel Sabotage is a pet Commander card for me, and I've been wanting to find a hand to run Gemstone Caverns. Chancellor of the Forge goblin can always be buffed on your first upkeep because the round rule doesn't target. All of the cards I was afraid of are artifacts, including Inkmoth. Thus: my hand.
- Rabid Wombat
Will edit in my matches tomorrow.
6 | 0 3 1 0 3 X 0 | 5 | 71
Matches:
6) Personman
Chalice of the Void / Dark Depths / Island / Tidal Warrior
vs
1) Anachronity
Chalice of the Void / Chancellor of the Forge / Gemstone Caverns / Steel Sabotage
0-6
2) CalvinSchwa
Aether Vial / Deceiver Exarch / Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker / Mutavault
Chalice says no Vial on my play. 3-3
3) Choptimist
Chalice of the Void / City of Traitors / Field of Ruin / Phyrexian Revoker
On your play, I can't get Warrior or Depths and Revoker wins. On my play, Warrior keeps up with Revoker and can always trade. I can't get Depths because of Field, and I can't stop Field for two reasons: because Revoker names Warrior, and because even if it didn't, if I tap Warrior I lose to Revoker. 1-4.
4) Feyd_Ruin
Mishra's Workshop / Mishra's Workshop / Necrogen Censer / Tangle Wire
I was looking for a Workshop deck for a while, Tangle Wire is nice. I have nothing against it. 0-6.
5) knobbodi
Chalice of the Void / Evil Presence / Slippery Bogle / Undiscovered Paradise
On my play, no Bogle or Presence for you, and I just win. On your play, Bogle is always one bigger, so I can't block, and it wins right before Marit comes out. I really should have figured out that Depths couldn't race a 1/1 before submitting it. 3-3
7) WhammeWhamme
Chalice of the Void / City of Traitors / Hangarback Walker / Umezawa's Jitte
0-6 as you described.
vs. 01 Anachronity: OTP, I drop Chalice for 0. If it gets Sabotaged, Walker for 1. Otherwise pass the turn.
In my next upkeep, tick Chalice to 1 (to counter Sabotage) and drop Walker for 1. 3-3
vs. 02 CalvinSchwa: T1 Jitte kills Kiki-Jiki. 6-0
vs. 03 Choptimist: Walker beats Revoker. 6-0
vs. 04 Feyd_Ruin: Jitte and Censor cancel out. 2-2
vs. 05 knobbodi: Walker beats Bogle. 6-0
vs. 06 Personman: Hangarback handily races Marit Lage coming out. 6-0
0-6 Choptimist :: Yup, Revoker on Vial.
6-0 Feyd_Ruin :: Pretty sure I just sorta combo off unimpeded here.
3-3 knobbodi :: Yup, first to Vial or Chalice.
3-3 Personman :: Vial v Chalice.
0-6 WhammeWhamme :: Yeah, true with Jitte.
|0 X 0 6 3 3 0 | 10 |
@PerfectHandMagic: I like the new layout for the banned lists!
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.