3CH LR 1001 Nights
Hand Size: 3 cards.
Land Rule: Basic Land Rule.
Format Rule: When submitting a hand, each player also chooses two cards in his or her hand.
Each player starts the game with an emblem with "At the beginning of your end step, if this game is the main game, players play a MAGIC subgame.
Each player's opening hand in the subgame contains all of that player's chosen cards that were in his or her hand as the subgame was created.
The starting player in the main game is the starting player in the subgame.
Each player who loses the subgame loses 1 life.
At the end of a subgame, each player takes all of his or her chosen cards that are in the subgame and puts them into his or her main game hand.
This ability can't be countered."
How to submit:
Send a private message with your list of three cards to this account.
Any questions, just ask! You can send a private message or post in this thread. If you want to ask by private message, please note in your subject line that you haven't included your submission, because I want to respond to you quickly, and I don't review any submissions until I've chosen my own. I want to play, too!
Rules and banned list
Be sure to review the rules and regular banned list by clicking below. In addition, be sure to review the "Land Rule" banned list as well.
Format ideas?
If you have a format you'd like to try, send me a message, mention it along with the cards in your hand, or post it here!
Contents
1. Overview
2. Game Rules
3. Deck Construction Rules
4. Entry
5. Perfect Hand Magic League
6. Scoring
7. Variant Format Rules
1. Overview
Perfect Hand Magic (PHM) is a competitive strategy game for two or more players. It can be played using pencil and paper; however, it's most commonly played via online forum. To play the game, each player secretly chooses a specified number of Magic cards which form that player's hand. Once all players have chosen hands, the hands are revealed and scored.
The object of the game is to choose the hand that will score the most points. The score for each hand is determined by the result that it would achieve if it were used to play two games of Magic – one match – against each competing hand; the rules for these theoretical games are covered in Section 2 – Game Rules. During each theoretical game, the theoretical player of each hand employs the strategy that will maximize the score for his or her hand, taking into account the strategy of his or her opponent.
A hand scores 3 points for each game that it would win, 0 points for each game it would lose, and 1 point for each game that would end in a draw. However, a hand scores only 2 points for any match that would have a symmetrical result, regardless of whether the result would be two drawn games or a win for each hand.
The composition of a hand is limited only by a short banned list and a few restrictions on the game states that it can enable; these restrictions are covered in Section 3 – Deck Composition.
2. Game Rules
2.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
2.1a. Changes to the Comprehensive Rules or the Oracle text of a card take effect at the following times:
i. Changes that would take effect during the prerelease for a set take effect during the first round for which cards from that set may be submitted instead.
ii. Changes that would take effect at any other time take effect during the first round for which those rules have been in effect since the start of the round instead.
2.1b. Ignore any part of an instruction that isn't covered by these rules or the rules of Magic.
2.2. A player's opening hand contains that player's chosen cards.
2.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
2.3a. A player doesn't lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
2.4. A cost or effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the player who paid that cost or the owner of the source of that effect instead.
2.5. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
2.6. Players know the identities of all face-down cards and cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
2.7. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
2.8. If a loop containing at least one optional action would be repeated indefinitely during a turn, then any player may propose a number of times for that loop to repeat instead. If a player does, then each other player may propose a different number and the loop is repeated for the greatest number of times proposed instead. No player is required to make a choice that would end a loop that crosses multiple turns.
2.9. Cards can't be brought into the game from outside the game.
3. Hand Construction Rules
3.1. A player may not choose an opening hand that could enable that player to achieve any of the following results before an opponent's second turn would begin, such that that opponent could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in at least one of these results:
i. win the game
ii. take an infinite number of turns
iii. cause a card to leave an opponent's hand.
Ignore this rule in the following cases:
3.1a. That player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents' cards had no rules text.
3.1b. That player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents had no maximum hand size.
3.1c. That player could achieve one of these results only during a game that was restarted after an opponent's second turn had begun.
3.1d. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be put onto the battlefield by that effect.
3.1e. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be in that opponent's hand once that effect resolved.
3.2. A hand may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage.
3.2a. An unreleased card is treated as though it's legal in Vintage if it will become legal in Vintage upon release and if the release notes for the set that contains that card were published prior to the start of the round (See rule 4.1).
3.3. A hand may not contain any cards on the PHM Banned List.
4. Entry
4.1. A player plays a round of PHM by submitting a list of his or her chosen cards to the PHM moderator.
4.2. A player may change his or her hand until the posted deadline.
4.2a. If a player submits an illegal hand, then the moderator will try to notify that player to change his or her hand prior to the deadline. If the hand is discovered to be illegal after the deadline – or if the player does not submit a new hand – then the moderator may either disqualify that hand or replace it with a similar hand, in which any cards causing that hand to be illegal have been removed or replaced.
4.2b. The moderator also will try to notify a player if that player's hand doesn't enable that player to win the game against any possible hand.
4.3. A player may name his or her hand. If that player doesn't, then the PHM moderator may name it. The PHM moderator may also rename a player's hand at his or her discretion.
5. Perfect Hand Magic League
5.1. PHM League play consists of four rounds of PHM.
5.2. Each round, a player earns League points according to the following formula:
League Points = Points Scored / Number of Opponents x 100 (rounded to the nearest integer)
5.3. The player with the most League points at the end of League play is the PHM League winner.
5.3a. If multiple players have the most League points at the end of the League, then the PHM moderator may allow those players to play additional rounds until only one of those players has the most League points or until a specified number of additional rounds have been played.
6. Scoring
6.1. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Each row lists one player's result against each other player. A player's points and League points are tallied at the end of his or her row.
6.2. A player may earn bonus League points as specified by the PHM moderator.
6.3. Each player is responsible for determining the match results for his or her hand.
6.3a. Players are encouraged to determine or verify additional match results.
6.3b. An undetermined match result is counted as a loss for both players in that match.
6.3c. A player may challenge any result until the moderator announces that the result is final.
7. Variant Format Rules
7.1. Perfect Hand Magic has been played with hands typically containing between one and seven cards. Additionally, the Game Rules and Deck Construction Rules have been adapted to create hundreds of variant formats. Five commonly-played variants are described in Sections 7.3-7.7.
7.2. The rules of a variant format overwrite any other applicable rules.
7.2a. Some variant formats generate continuous effects. A continuous effect generated by a variant format is treated as having the earliest timestamp within a layer or sublayer. If continuous effects generated by multiple variant formats would apply in the same layer or sublayer, assign timestamps to those effects in the order that the variant formats are listed in the rules or name of the round.
7.2b. Some variant formats require a player to make some number of decisions in addition to or instead of submitting a hand. A player's submission must comply with the Hand Construction Rules, taking into account any decisions made at this time.
7.2c. Some variant formats require players to make decisions "before the start of each game". For these decisions, follow the "Active Player, Nonactive Player order" rule, replacing "active player" with "starting player".
7.3. Land Rule Variant.
7.3a. This is the basic land rule (LR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.3b. This is the extra land rule (ELR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.3c. This is the draw land rule (DLR). If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land or basic snow land card of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.4a. Only cards contained in sets legal in the named format may be submitted.
7.5. Life Rule (LF).
7.5a. If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game.
7.5b. A player must choose an opening hand that enables that player to win both games of a match against at least one legal hand, irrespective of rule 7.5a.
7.6. Backbuild.
7.6a. Players exchanges hands before the start of each match. A hand must enable the player of that hand to win both games of a match against a specified hand or specified hands. Ignore rule 3.1.
7.7. Bonus Points.
7.7a. A player earns bonus points if his or her hand meets specified requirements.
PHM Banned List
The following cards are automatically banned in all Perfect Hand Magic League rounds unless otherwise specified by the round rules. Each round may have an additional banned list that extends beyond, but always includes, these cards.
Land Rule Banned List
"Land Rule" is the most common variant for PHM, and thus a separate ban list has been developed to allow for easier moderation. The following cards are banned in Perfect Hand Magic League rounds when a Land Rule is used. There will be a reminder of this on the round rules.
Previously: "At the end of a subgame, each player takes all cards he or she owns that are in the subgame and puts them into his or her main game hand."
Now: "At the end of a subgame, each player takes all of his or her chosen cards that are in the subgame and puts them into his or her main game hand."
Regarding the subgame being a draw (brought up in the Overwhelming Splendor round thread), it seems to me like it's not particularly likely for the subgame to draw out on account of being able to concede at any time, yes? As best I can tell, conceding only a subgame and not the main game is entirely allowed.
EDIT: also, PHM rule 2.9 would seem to prohibit any wish-based shenanigans...
Come to think of it, we shouldn't be able to play Land-Rule lands from outside the game either due to that rule...
I would like to request a do-over on this round; the consequences of losing a subgame are near-insignificant and there's no interactivity across the main game and subgame due to rule 2.9
I'll second for the irrelevance of the sub-game. I have yet to come up with a scenario where the two card hand has any impact on how the 3CH LR hands played out. With such few cards, generally if someone is winning the subgame, they are going to win the main game too. Or the 3CH has a method of winning on T3 from 20+ life anyway, making the subgame irrelevant since you can only lose 4/5 life OTP/OTD. Adding a steeper life loss penalty doesn't change this outcome until the sub-game becomes more important than the main game (appears to happen around 4-5 life loss per subgame, since this by itself generates a kill on T3 or on the end step of the player OTD on T2). At that point, then its just a 2CH LR game with no additional special rules.
So I agree with Anachronity that while the Shaharazad concept is complex, the depth of strategy it provides is shallow; it just results in a standard LR hand.
EDIT: However, I am the new guy on the block, so what I am saying is still speculation. I don't have the depth of experience to fall back on that you guys do. Feel free to dispute me, I would love to learn of a scenario where the sub-game is relevant.
I'd definitely vote keep it (not that these votes matter, technically). We're 3 days away, might as well finish the round and return with better rules later (discussing it more before the round is posted next time). I originally expected normal Shahrazad half-life-loss, but I think I'm fine with this too. In any case, if you think the 2CH aspect doesn't matter enough, then just build a hand for ordinary 3CH.
What do the original players think who've been around for a while?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Regarding the subgame being a draw (brought up in the Overwhelming Splendor round thread), it seems to me like it's not particularly likely for the subgame to draw out on account of being able to concede at any time, yes? As best I can tell, conceding only a subgame and not the main game is entirely allowed.
EDIT: also, PHM rule 2.9 would seem to prohibit any wish-based shenanigans...
Come to think of it, we shouldn't be able to play Land-Rule lands from outside the game either due to that rule...
I would like to request a do-over on this round; the consequences of losing a subgame are near-insignificant and there's no interactivity across the main game and subgame due to rule 2.9
Anyone care to second this?
Good point about conceding; it may be a valid strategy in some cases.
For why the land rule works as a general matter, refer to the start of rule 2.7.
I'm not sure of your assessment about the relevance of the subgame; You may be right - I haven't created my hand yet. Do note that only cards that are still in your hand are useable in the subgame.
No do-over; the next round will be posted at the regular time.
But, since it got me thinking, here are some thoughts I had regarding potential formats for the future:
3CH LR Countdown
Except for their first spell of the game, Players may only cast spells with CMC less than their most recently cast spell. Suggested Additional Bans
Dark Depths
An effectively CMC 0 game-ending threat seems a little good in this format, especially when its not a *spell* at all.
5CH Cavern Harpy
All permanents gain "Pay 2 Life: Return ~ to its owner's hand. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery."
*I'm only comfortable with this format since you can't storm your opponent out on T1/T2 with a legal PHM hand (Lesson learned from my first week, thanks again for rectifying my mistake); it may be a nightmare to adjudicate though, which is why I added the sorcery clause to limit instant speed shenanigans. It doesn't stop it from being a busted format.
I went back through about a year of Perfect Hand Magic league for ideas. I also tried to not repeat something that's already been done. Honestly, they are probably horrible formats, feel free to tear them apart.
But, since it got me thinking, here are some thoughts I had regarding potential formats for the future:
3CH LR Countdown
Except for their first spell of the game, Players may only cast spells with CMC less than their most recently cast spell. Suggested Additional Bans
Dark Depths
An effectively CMC 0 game-ending threat seems a little good in this format, especially when its not a *spell* at all.
5CH Cavern Harpy
All permanents gain "Pay 2 Life: Return ~ to its owner's hand. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery."
*I'm only comfortable with this format since you can't storm your opponent out on T1/T2 with a legal PHM hand (Lesson learned from my first week, thanks again for rectifying my mistake); it may be a nightmare to adjudicate though, which is why I added the sorcery clause to limit instant speed shenanigans. It doesn't stop it from being a busted format.
I went back through about a year of Perfect Hand Magic league for ideas. I also tried to not repeat something that's already been done. Honestly, they are probably horrible formats, feel free to tear them apart.
Thanks for the ideas!
I really like countdown and will probably run that one soon. Cavern Harpy seems totally playable, too. As you may have noticed, there's a sizeable range in the power level of formats.
Also, if you're interested, you can find many of the older formats we've played here. I haven't added to the list of formats there in about four years, but - depending on how you count - about 135-219 formats are listed (plus variations based on hand size, specified objects, combinations of various formats, etc.).
Looking ahead, here are some formats I've thought up in the last few weeks:
4CH LR CMC > 4
Only cards with converted mana cost greater than 4 may be submitted.
5CH Daze for Days
Each player starts the game with an emblem with "Whenever an opponent casts a spell, counter that spell unless its controller pays {1}."
4CH Neheb
Each player starts the game with an emblem with "at the beginning of your postcombat main phase, add X mana in any combination of colors to your mana pool, where X is the amount of life your opponents have lost this turn."
3CH DLR Feed the Obstinate Familiar
If a player would draw a card, that player skips that draw unless he or she pays 6 life or puts a permanent he or she controls on the bottom of his or her library.
Bans: Onslaught words cycle (Words of War, etc.)
Tentatively, next week's format will be 4CH Neheb.
Hand size: 4 cards.
Land rule: None.
Format rule: Each player starts the game with an emblem with "at the beginning of your postcombat main phase, add X mana in any combination of colors to your mana pool, where X is the amount of life your opponents have lost this turn. This ability can't be countered."
Please let me know if you have any comments/suggestions or ideas for other formats!
Also, hands for the current round are due in about two days.
Oh also do we play the subgame with the same player in the main game going first?
Yes. I've amended the rules to state this.
I hope this late ruling doesn't affect anyone's selection, but I agree that it had never been addressed anywhere.
It wasn't my finest round as a moderator, but I'm enthusiastic about the growing turnout. Some general remarks:
1) Please welcome new player Janteviker! I'm happy to see you join, and if you have any questions or comments, please feel free to post them here or via pm.
2) Thanks to everyone who kept me honest as far as making sure the round's rules were fully fleshed out. The final version still ended up a little bit off from what I'd intended (more on that below), but I'm actually really happy to know that people will pay attention and spot mistakes when I make them.
3) A corner case for this round that was brought to my attention recently involves being placed into a player's library. Specifically, all cards that are in a player's library as a subgame is created are brought into the subgame, per the normal rules for subgames.
However, the method for returning cards to the main game in this format is slightly different from the normal rules of Magic.
Specifically, the rules state: "at the end of a subgame, each player takes all of his or her chosen cards that are in the subgame and puts them into his or her main game hand", superceding CR 718.5.
Per PHM rule 2.9, "cards can't be brought into the game from outside the game", so a non-chosen card that leaves the main game is unable to return to the main game.
Looking at the submissions, I don't think this situation will ever arise, but it wasn't obvious to me, so I wanted to clarify the point now in case it becomes relevant.
4) I won't have a chance to score my row today (Mogg), but I'll get that up tomorrow as well as the final grid for 6CH Overwhelming Splendor. I've been impressed by the consistent effort almost everyone has been making to score their own rows and catch mistakes when they occur. In addition to fostering some interesting discussions about how specific matches play out, it also does really help me to be able to put up the round each week in a timely manner. So, thanks!
That's about it. I look forward to seeing how this round plays out, specifically the degree to which the format – beyond the baseline of 3CH LR – has an impact.
6) Jantesviker
[Reclamation Sage / Shriekmaw] / Faerie Macabre
2-2 i dont play anvil. pox if you play a threat (discarding anvil). so you dont. if i play kozi, you shriekmaw/macabre. so i dont.
With regards to Anachronicity's deck:
Does the main game Approach of the Second Sun count any AotSS that are cast in a subgame?
No, the sub game is an entirely separate and brand new game of Magic each time. No memory exists across the two for the purpose of Approach. In order for him to win with Approach in the main game, he will need to cast it twice.
To put it in context, say an opponent cast a single Approach in game one in a best of three. He will not win game two when he casts Approach the first time in that game two, even though it's the second time he cast it over the match.
Vs. 01 Anachronity
I lose the Subgame, but I can Denial the Approach in the main game, and Beacon outraces the life loss EDIT: you can cast approach T2 otp under counter magic, then win with the cast trigger with the second one
3-3
Vs. 02 CalvinSchwa
Defiance discards my wincon
0-6
Vs. 04 Mogg
Capsive effectively puts you on the play, win the Beacon race
0-6
Vs. 05 Feyd_Ruin
I win the Subgame, lifeloss accelerates my clock in the main allowing beacon to outrace exploration treefolk
6-0
Vs. 06 Jantesviker
Beacon beats the whole hand, additional interaction ends the pain sooner
6-0
Vs. 07 knobbodi
OTD I lose to Wheel, OTP this match is insane...
Denial forces you to hold back Wheel, because as soon as it's countered you lose access to it in the Subgame.
T3 you Vindicate a land to buy an extra turn against Beacon. I lose two life per turn cycle, nothing of note happens until my T6. Start of my T6 I am at 10 life from losing 10 subgames. EoT your T6 I Beacon you to 15. T7 I am at 8, Beacon you to 10 EoT. T8 I am at 6, Beacon you to 5 EoT. T9 I am at 4, Beacon you during my main phase, you respond with Helix, I Denial the Helix for the win
3-3
Vs. 08 tomsloger
Pox recursion is strong... EDIT: but Beacon outraces Kozilek, I can counter Pox in both matches, forcing you to Anvil for the draw.
2-2
Vs. 09 WhammeWhamme
OTP I win, EDIT: OTD you can breach in Colossus with anvil on the stack
3-3
Results for 03 CzarBomba:
(Edited based on Anvil of Bogardan observation from knobbodi)
X|1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 |
3|3 0 X 0 6 6 3 2 3 |23|288
Alright, I am glad to be proven wrong. One of my matches was actually made very interesting due to the Subgame mechanic.
Also, I leveled myself this week. I was expecting at least one Anurid Scavenger//Time Walk hand or similar fast creature combos. While Path was not useless, I would have gotten more points simply by bringing two pieces of 2 cost countermagic.
tomsloger, your deck should have a lot more draws (whammwhamme too) because you draw for turn before drawing for anvil, meaning if you play anvil you'll draw every subgame at best, since your threat will be in your main game deck.
Jantesviker, we draw. I can't beat you, but I vindicate either faerie or shriekmaw and then I play wheel and helix in the sane turn to kill the other if you play it, letting me draw helix to kill sage.
tomsloger, your deck should have a lot more draws (whammwhamme too) because you draw for turn before drawing for anvil, meaning if you play anvil you'll draw every subgame at best, since your threat will be in your main game deck.
That's a good point, I forgot that while their threat was in the deck, it didn't go to the Subgame. So when anvil removes all win conditions from both hands that was supposed to go to the Subgame, the game is a draw. (I actually thought this is how one of our matches ended knobbodi, but I think I found a sequence that prevents a draw)
Edit: I think WhammeWhamme accounted for that, he can at least concede subgames and Breach in Colossus with Anvil trigger on the stack
Are players required to try to win in the subgame, or can a player lose the subgame on purpose?
This specifically applies to Anachronity.
If e is required to try to win the subgame, e will almost always tie at best. But if e can lose the subgame on purpose, the difference is major.
In example: 1v5
I can't race second sun, but I can force the subgame into a never-ending tie, which ties the main game. All I have to is cast both of my threats, and not return them. Anachronity has to cast Second Sun, go through two subgames, then redraw second sun to cast it again for the win. If either of those subgames tie, the whole game is a tie. Can e purposefully play Mana Crypt in the subgame for a suicidal loss, so that the subgame isn't a draw?
Are players required to try to win in the subgame, or can a player lose the subgame on purpose?
Players are not required to try to win the subgame; they can concede.
The basis for your question, I think, is an earlier rule describing a hierarchy of in-game objectives; this rule was removed a few years ago.
Ahh, it is indeed removed. That makes it much simpler, heh.
Wish I'd asked before. I chose my cards because I thought we'd end up with a lot of subgame ties because no one could win. >_<
5 | 0 6 0 6 X 6 6 6 6 | 36 | 450
1. 0-6 : Can't race the second cast
2. 6-0 : Long drawn out, but I race.
3. 0-6 : Path prevents recur, leaving you at 2 life when I die.
4. 6-0 : I kill turn 7 at 3 life.
5. ---
6. 6-0 : Agreed
7. 6-0 : Head hurts, but I race.
8. 6-0 : Agreed
9. 6-0 : Block Blightsteel enough to live, race recast.
1: 6: Mana Drain would counter Approach of the Second Suns if it were cast, so it isn't. Anachronity wins the subgames but Beacon wins quickly enough to secure the main game.
2: 0: Collective Defiance is a good tactic. I don't know if it's been used before, but I'll keep my eye on the card going forward. Anyway, Defiance removes my Beacon and the Pride tokens win.
3: 6: Path is irrelevant. Our counter-magic can trade. Capsize on a land lets me the first to Beacon each time.
4: -
5: 0: Feyd_Ruin's threats quickly overrun me in the main game.
6: 6: Beacon cleanly deals with Jantesviker's threat, and then with him.
7: 6: If knobbodi could win the subgames – which would involve holding Wheel in hand - then (playing second) I would drop to 3 before dealing the finishing blow (Vindicate on a land resolves), with Mana Drain available to counter Lightning Helix. Thus, at some point, knobbodi must cast Wheel in the main game, therey conceding the subgames.. The ideal time to do so it turn two, since – playing second – I can't counter it. At some point, though, I Capsize the Wheel in response to a Helix, and knobbodi loses.
8: 0: Suppose tomsloger plays first. Anvil forces me to discard all but Capsize, and then my best option is to Capsize a land. That said, playing Anvil doesn't let Tomsloger win. He must discard Kozilek repeatedly to Anvil, leaving him without a win condition in the subgames. Thus, he can only win the game if he concedes quite a lot of subgames (all of the subgames that don't contain Kozilek). This approach is detailed in the spoiler below. Tom's starting life total is sufficiently high to win when playing first, but not when playing second. When Tom plays second, eventually we enter a subgame which we never leave. The turn sequence is outlined in greater detail in the spoiler below:
t# = tomsloger, turn #
m# = Mogg, turn #
1st number = life total at end of turn
2nd number = land count at end of turn
m1: 20, 1
t1: 18, 1
m2: 20, 2
t2: 16, 2, Anvil (mana drain)
m3: 19, 3, Beacon
t3: 7, 2, Pox (Tom discards Kozilek and I discard Capsize)
m4: 11, 3
t4: 5, 3, draw Kozilek
m5: 11, 4
t5: 3, 4, draw Anvil, cast Anvil
m6: 10, 5, discard Beacon (the last land arrives just a moment too late!)
t6: 3, 5, discard Kozilek, we enter a subgame from which we don't return
As noted in response, the outcome of the match is the same.
EDIT: Anvil strips Beacon and Capsize. Pox discarding Kozilek can return Anvil if it's countered the first time. Kozilek enters the subgame from the library and wins.
9: 3: Playing first, I counter Anvil and Capsize Colossus. Playing second, Anvil resolves and Breach-Colossus gets the job done. EDIT: Changed to 4-1, then back to 3-3, based on knobbodi's, then Anachronity's reasoning.
Additionally, I think it bears noting that – while the subgame rule ultimately had a small effect on the games, I think the effect on hand construction was more pronounced.
7) knobbodi
[Lightning Helix / Wheel of Sun and Moon] / Vindicate
VS:
1) Anachronity
[Approach of the Second Sun / Mana Crypt] / Summer Bloom
--Lightning helix isn't fast enough and in the main game I could loop vindicate, but you drain me by 1 to death in the subgame 0-6
2) CalvinSchwa
[Collective Defiance / Pride of the Clouds] / Wheel of Sun and Moon
--In the subgame my clock is faster than yours, but collective defiance means I have to play wheel in the maingame. Vindicate on your own wheel means that I win there too. 6-0
3) CzarBomba :: I can't let you do that
[Beacon of Destruction / Path to Exile] / Arcane Denial
--Even on the play, winning just the subgames won't do the job and using helix in the main game means that the subgames+beacon kill me one turn earlier than helix would kill you 0-6
4) Mogg
[Beacon of Destruction / Capsize] / Mana Drain
--Same as CzarBomba except you can complicate things further by bouncing Wheel 0-6
5) Feyd_Ruin :: I have no idea what I'm doing Teach
[Firewing Phoenix / Reach of Branches] / Exploration
--If I go for the main game, losing the subgame makes me lose the race, but the subgame doesn't win quick enough vs your maingame 0-6
--In either the main game or subgame, reclamation sage stops my win condition but if I wait for you to play shriekmaw in the subgame or faerie macabre or shriekmaw in the main game I can cast wheel and helix in the same turn for removal equal to your threats (using vindicate as well in the main game) 2-2
8) tomsloger
[Kozilek, Butcher of Truth / Pox] / Anvil of Bogardan
--If you ever cast Anvil, I have to play Wheel to not lose (discarding vindicate if OTD) and we draw because neither of us have win conditions in the subgame. And in the main game, in order to not lose to anvil after you pox once I have to play wheel, meaning we draw either way 2-2 Looped helix races faster than pox kozilek meaning I win the subgame, and if you cast anvil in the main game, you can't ever cast pox while hoping to loop it, because kozilek will always be in your deck during your main phase. And even OTD I have vindicate to discard to anvil to protect wheel. 6-0
9) WhammeWhamme
[Blightsteel Colossus / Through the Breach] / Anvil of Bogardan
--If you ever cast Anvil, I have to play Wheel to not lose (discarding vindicate if OTD) and we draw because neither of us have win conditions in the subgame. In the maingame, I could loop vindicate to keep you off of 5 so we draw either way 2-2Blightsteel races me in either the subgame or the maingame, so even in the main game I can't loop Vindicate to pull a draw. 0-6
From your spoiler, how are you winning the first few subgames against tomsloger before cards start getting discarded in the main game? Even if you discard capsize to the first Pox you must sac a land, putting you 3 turns from casting Beacon. Even in the worst case scenario, tomsloger will draw the pox in two turns and force you to discard the Beacon before you get your 5th land drop.
I'm not sure if this messes with the math for the outcome of the main games, but tomsloger should be winning the first couple subgames, forcing you to lose some early life.
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3CH LR 1001 Nights
Hand Size: 3 cards.
Land Rule: Basic Land Rule.
Format Rule: When submitting a hand, each player also chooses two cards in his or her hand.
Each player starts the game with an emblem with "At the beginning of your end step, if this game is the main game, players play a MAGIC subgame.
Each player's opening hand in the subgame contains all of that player's chosen cards that were in his or her hand as the subgame was created.
The starting player in the main game is the starting player in the subgame.
Each player who loses the subgame loses 1 life.
At the end of a subgame, each player takes all of his or her chosen cards that are in the subgame and puts them into his or her main game hand.
This ability can't be countered."
How to submit:
Send a private message with your list of three cards to this account.
Any questions, just ask! You can send a private message or post in this thread. If you want to ask by private message, please note in your subject line that you haven't included your submission, because I want to respond to you quickly, and I don't review any submissions until I've chosen my own. I want to play, too!
Hands:
1) Anachronity
[Approach of the Second Sun / Mana Crypt] / Summer Bloom
2) CalvinSchwa
[Collective Defiance / Pride of the Clouds] / Wheel of Sun and Moon
3) CzarBomba :: I can't let you do that
[Beacon of Destruction / Path to Exile] / Arcane Denial
4) Mogg
[Beacon of Destruction / Capsize] / Mana Drain
5) Feyd_Ruin :: I have no idea what I'm doing
[Firewing Phoenix / Reach of Branches] / Exploration
6) Jantesviker
[Reclamation Sage / Shriekmaw] / Faerie Macabre
7) knobbodi
[Lightning Helix / Wheel of Sun and Moon] / Vindicate
8) tomsloger
[Kozilek, Butcher of Truth / Pox] / Anvil of Bogardan
9) WhammeWhamme
[Blightsteel Colossus / Through the Breach] / Anvil of Bogardan
Results:
X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
1| X 6 0 0 6 6 6 0 0 | 24 | 300
2| 0 X 6 6 0 6 0 6 6 | 30 | 375
3| 6 0 X 0 6 6 3 0 3 | 22 | 275
4| 6 0 6 X 0 6 6 0 3 | 26 | 325
5| 0 6 0 6 X 6 6 6 6 | 36 | 450
6| 0 0 0 0 0 X 2 0 0 | 02 | 025
7| 0 6 0 0 0 2 X 6 0 | 14 | 175
8| 6 0 6 6 0 6 0 X 6 | 30 | 375
9| 6 0 3 3 0 6 6 0 X | 22 | 275
Feyd_Ruin wins!
Brackets, "[ ]", denote a player's chosen cards.
Rules and banned list
Be sure to review the rules and regular banned list by clicking below. In addition, be sure to review the "Land Rule" banned list as well.
Format ideas?
If you have a format you'd like to try, send me a message, mention it along with the cards in your hand, or post it here!
1. Overview
2. Game Rules
3. Deck Construction Rules
4. Entry
5. Perfect Hand Magic League
6. Scoring
7. Variant Format Rules
1. Overview
Perfect Hand Magic (PHM) is a competitive strategy game for two or more players. It can be played using pencil and paper; however, it's most commonly played via online forum. To play the game, each player secretly chooses a specified number of Magic cards which form that player's hand. Once all players have chosen hands, the hands are revealed and scored.
The object of the game is to choose the hand that will score the most points. The score for each hand is determined by the result that it would achieve if it were used to play two games of Magic – one match – against each competing hand; the rules for these theoretical games are covered in Section 2 – Game Rules. During each theoretical game, the theoretical player of each hand employs the strategy that will maximize the score for his or her hand, taking into account the strategy of his or her opponent.
A hand scores 3 points for each game that it would win, 0 points for each game it would lose, and 1 point for each game that would end in a draw. However, a hand scores only 2 points for any match that would have a symmetrical result, regardless of whether the result would be two drawn games or a win for each hand.
The composition of a hand is limited only by a short banned list and a few restrictions on the game states that it can enable; these restrictions are covered in Section 3 – Deck Composition.
2. Game Rules
2.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
2.2. A player's opening hand contains that player's chosen cards.
2.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
2.4. A cost or effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the player who paid that cost or the owner of the source of that effect instead.
2.5. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
2.6. Players know the identities of all face-down cards and cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
2.7. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
2.8. If a loop containing at least one optional action would be repeated indefinitely during a turn, then any player may propose a number of times for that loop to repeat instead. If a player does, then each other player may propose a different number and the loop is repeated for the greatest number of times proposed instead. No player is required to make a choice that would end a loop that crosses multiple turns.
2.9. Cards can't be brought into the game from outside the game.
3. Hand Construction Rules
3.1. A player may not choose an opening hand that could enable that player to achieve any of the following results before an opponent's second turn would begin, such that that opponent could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in at least one of these results:
Ignore this rule in the following cases:
3.2. A hand may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage.
3.3. A hand may not contain any cards on the PHM Banned List.
4. Entry
4.1. A player plays a round of PHM by submitting a list of his or her chosen cards to the PHM moderator.
4.2. A player may change his or her hand until the posted deadline.
4.3. A player may name his or her hand. If that player doesn't, then the PHM moderator may name it. The PHM moderator may also rename a player's hand at his or her discretion.
5. Perfect Hand Magic League
5.1. PHM League play consists of four rounds of PHM.
5.2. Each round, a player earns League points according to the following formula:
5.3. The player with the most League points at the end of League play is the PHM League winner.
6. Scoring
6.1. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Each row lists one player's result against each other player. A player's points and League points are tallied at the end of his or her row.
6.2. A player may earn bonus League points as specified by the PHM moderator.
6.3. Each player is responsible for determining the match results for his or her hand.
7. Variant Format Rules
7.1. Perfect Hand Magic has been played with hands typically containing between one and seven cards. Additionally, the Game Rules and Deck Construction Rules have been adapted to create hundreds of variant formats. Five commonly-played variants are described in Sections 7.3-7.7.
7.2. The rules of a variant format overwrite any other applicable rules.
7.3. Land Rule Variant.
7.4. Sanctioned Magic Format Variant.
7.5. Life Rule (LF).
7.6. Backbuild.
7.7. Bonus Points.
PHM Banned List
The following cards are automatically banned in all Perfect Hand Magic League rounds unless otherwise specified by the round rules. Each round may have an additional banned list that extends beyond, but always includes, these cards.
Acceleration
Channel
Fastbond
Flash
Show and Tell
Disruption
Beast Within
Chancellor of the Annex
Force of Will
Leyline of Anticipation
Leyline of Singularity
Pact of Negation
Trinisphere
Lands
Ghost Quarter
Strip Mine
Wasteland
Win Conditions
Barren Glory
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Laboratory Maniac
Leyline of the Meek
Magus of the Moon
Meddling Mage
The Rack
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Vampire Hexmage
Land Rule Banned List
"Land Rule" is the most common variant for PHM, and thus a separate ban list has been developed to allow for easier moderation. The following cards are banned in Perfect Hand Magic League rounds when a Land Rule is used. There will be a reminder of this on the round rules.
Acceleration
Black Lotus
Disruption
Balancing Act
Energy Field
Win Conditions
Beacon of Creation
Maralen of the Mornsong
Nezumi Shortfang
Red Sun's Zenith
White Sun's Zenith
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Previously: "At the end of a subgame, each player takes all cards he or she owns that are in the subgame and puts them into his or her main game hand."
Now: "At the end of a subgame, each player takes all of his or her chosen cards that are in the subgame and puts them into his or her main game hand."
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EDIT: also, PHM rule 2.9 would seem to prohibit any wish-based shenanigans...
Come to think of it, we shouldn't be able to play Land-Rule lands from outside the game either due to that rule...
I would like to request a do-over on this round; the consequences of losing a subgame are near-insignificant and there's no interactivity across the main game and subgame due to rule 2.9
Anyone care to second this?
- Rabid Wombat
So I agree with Anachronity that while the Shaharazad concept is complex, the depth of strategy it provides is shallow; it just results in a standard LR hand.
EDIT: However, I am the new guy on the block, so what I am saying is still speculation. I don't have the depth of experience to fall back on that you guys do. Feel free to dispute me, I would love to learn of a scenario where the sub-game is relevant.
What do the original players think who've been around for a while?
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Good point about conceding; it may be a valid strategy in some cases.
For why the land rule works as a general matter, refer to the start of rule 2.7.
I'm not sure of your assessment about the relevance of the subgame; You may be right - I haven't created my hand yet. Do note that only cards that are still in your hand are useable in the subgame.
No do-over; the next round will be posted at the regular time.
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But, since it got me thinking, here are some thoughts I had regarding potential formats for the future:
3CH LR Countdown
Except for their first spell of the game, Players may only cast spells with CMC less than their most recently cast spell.
Suggested Additional Bans
Dark Depths
An effectively CMC 0 game-ending threat seems a little good in this format, especially when its not a *spell* at all.
5CH Cavern Harpy
All permanents gain "Pay 2 Life: Return ~ to its owner's hand. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery."
*I'm only comfortable with this format since you can't storm your opponent out on T1/T2 with a legal PHM hand (Lesson learned from my first week, thanks again for rectifying my mistake); it may be a nightmare to adjudicate though, which is why I added the sorcery clause to limit instant speed shenanigans. It doesn't stop it from being a busted format.
I went back through about a year of Perfect Hand Magic league for ideas. I also tried to not repeat something that's already been done. Honestly, they are probably horrible formats, feel free to tear them apart.
I really like countdown and will probably run that one soon. Cavern Harpy seems totally playable, too. As you may have noticed, there's a sizeable range in the power level of formats.
Also, if you're interested, you can find many of the older formats we've played here. I haven't added to the list of formats there in about four years, but - depending on how you count - about 135-219 formats are listed (plus variations based on hand size, specified objects, combinations of various formats, etc.).
Looking ahead, here are some formats I've thought up in the last few weeks:
4CH LR CMC > 4
Only cards with converted mana cost greater than 4 may be submitted.
5CH Daze for Days
Each player starts the game with an emblem with "Whenever an opponent casts a spell, counter that spell unless its controller pays {1}."
4CH Neheb
Each player starts the game with an emblem with "at the beginning of your postcombat main phase, add X mana in any combination of colors to your mana pool, where X is the amount of life your opponents have lost this turn."
3CH DLR Feed the Obstinate Familiar
If a player would draw a card, that player skips that draw unless he or she pays 6 life or puts a permanent he or she controls on the bottom of his or her library.
Bans: Onslaught words cycle (Words of War, etc.)
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Hand size: 4 cards.
Land rule: None.
Format rule: Each player starts the game with an emblem with "at the beginning of your postcombat main phase, add X mana in any combination of colors to your mana pool, where X is the amount of life your opponents have lost this turn. This ability can't be countered."
Please let me know if you have any comments/suggestions or ideas for other formats!
Also, hands for the current round are due in about two days.
EDIT: Added the "can't be countered" text.
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ooh, that was my favorite of the ones listed. Should be interesting.
- Rabid Wombat
Yes. I've amended the rules to state this.
I hope this late ruling doesn't affect anyone's selection, but I agree that it had never been addressed anywhere.
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- Rabid Wombat
It wasn't my finest round as a moderator, but I'm enthusiastic about the growing turnout. Some general remarks:
1) Please welcome new player Janteviker! I'm happy to see you join, and if you have any questions or comments, please feel free to post them here or via pm.
2) Thanks to everyone who kept me honest as far as making sure the round's rules were fully fleshed out. The final version still ended up a little bit off from what I'd intended (more on that below), but I'm actually really happy to know that people will pay attention and spot mistakes when I make them.
3) A corner case for this round that was brought to my attention recently involves being placed into a player's library. Specifically, all cards that are in a player's library as a subgame is created are brought into the subgame, per the normal rules for subgames.
However, the method for returning cards to the main game in this format is slightly different from the normal rules of Magic.
Specifically, the rules state: "at the end of a subgame, each player takes all of his or her chosen cards that are in the subgame and puts them into his or her main game hand", superceding CR 718.5.
Per PHM rule 2.9, "cards can't be brought into the game from outside the game", so a non-chosen card that leaves the main game is unable to return to the main game.
Looking at the submissions, I don't think this situation will ever arise, but it wasn't obvious to me, so I wanted to clarify the point now in case it becomes relevant.
4) I won't have a chance to score my row today (Mogg), but I'll get that up tomorrow as well as the final grid for 6CH Overwhelming Splendor. I've been impressed by the consistent effort almost everyone has been making to score their own rows and catch mistakes when they occur. In addition to fostering some interesting discussions about how specific matches play out, it also does really help me to be able to put up the round each week in a timely manner. So, thanks!
That's about it. I look forward to seeing how this round plays out, specifically the degree to which the format – beyond the baseline of 3CH LR – has an impact.
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8) tomsloger
[Kozilek, Butcher of Truth / Pox] / Anvil of Bogardan
this should be fun
[Approach of the Second Sun / Mana Crypt] / Summer Bloom
6-0 anvil beats approach
2) CalvinSchwa
[Collective Defiance / Pride of the Clouds] / Wheel of Sun and Moon
3-3 otp, get rid of one card permanently before wheel comes down. otd, not so much
3) CzarBomba :: I can't let you do that
[Beacon of Destruction / Path to Exile] / Arcane Denial
6-0 can counter something, but i recur.
4) Mogg
[Beacon of Destruction / Capsize] / Mana Drain
6-0 see #3
5) Feyd_Ruin :: I have no idea what I'm doing
[Firewing Phoenix / Reach of Branches] / Exploration
0-6 too many permanents
6) Jantesviker
[Reclamation Sage / Shriekmaw] / Faerie Macabre
2-2 i dont play anvil. pox if you play a threat (discarding anvil). so you dont. if i play kozi, you shriekmaw/macabre. so i dont.
7) knobbodi
[Lightning Helix / Wheel of Sun and Moon] / Vindicate
0-6 pretty sure the lifegain of helix wins it
9) WhammeWhamme
[Blightsteel Colossus / Through the Breach] / Anvil of Bogardan
6-0 can make you discard through the breach, and my fatty is cheaper
8 | 6 3 6 6 0 2 0 X 6 | 28 | 350
probably something wrong in there. will come back and edit.
No, the sub game is an entirely separate and brand new game of Magic each time. No memory exists across the two for the purpose of Approach. In order for him to win with Approach in the main game, he will need to cast it twice.
To put it in context, say an opponent cast a single Approach in game one in a best of three. He will not win game two when he casts Approach the first time in that game two, even though it's the second time he cast it over the match.
Vs. 01 Anachronity
I lose the Subgame, but I can Denial the Approach in the main game, and Beacon outraces the life loss EDIT: you can cast approach T2 otp under counter magic, then win with the cast trigger with the second one
3-3
Vs. 02 CalvinSchwa
Defiance discards my wincon
0-6
Vs. 04 Mogg
Capsive effectively puts you on the play, win the Beacon race
0-6
Vs. 05 Feyd_Ruin
I win the Subgame, lifeloss accelerates my clock in the main allowing beacon to outrace exploration treefolk
6-0
Vs. 06 Jantesviker
Beacon beats the whole hand, additional interaction ends the pain sooner
6-0
Vs. 07 knobbodi
OTD I lose to Wheel, OTP this match is insane...
Denial forces you to hold back Wheel, because as soon as it's countered you lose access to it in the Subgame.
T3 you Vindicate a land to buy an extra turn against Beacon. I lose two life per turn cycle, nothing of note happens until my T6. Start of my T6 I am at 10 life from losing 10 subgames. EoT your T6 I Beacon you to 15. T7 I am at 8, Beacon you to 10 EoT. T8 I am at 6, Beacon you to 5 EoT. T9 I am at 4, Beacon you during my main phase, you respond with Helix, I Denial the Helix for the win
3-3
Vs. 08 tomsloger
Pox recursion is strong... EDIT: but Beacon outraces Kozilek, I can counter Pox in both matches, forcing you to Anvil for the draw.
2-2
Vs. 09 WhammeWhamme
OTP I win, EDIT: OTD you can breach in Colossus with anvil on the stack
3-3
Results for 03 CzarBomba:
(Edited based on Anvil of Bogardan observation from knobbodi)
X|1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 |
3|3 0 X 0 6 6 3 2 3 |23|288
Alright, I am glad to be proven wrong. One of my matches was actually made very interesting due to the Subgame mechanic.
Also, I leveled myself this week. I was expecting at least one Anurid Scavenger//Time Walk hand or similar fast creature combos. While Path was not useless, I would have gotten more points simply by bringing two pieces of 2 cost countermagic.
Jantesviker, we draw. I can't beat you, but I vindicate either faerie or shriekmaw and then I play wheel and helix in the sane turn to kill the other if you play it, letting me draw helix to kill sage.
That's a good point, I forgot that while their threat was in the deck, it didn't go to the Subgame. So when anvil removes all win conditions from both hands that was supposed to go to the Subgame, the game is a draw. (I actually thought this is how one of our matches ended knobbodi, but I think I found a sequence that prevents a draw)
Edit: I think WhammeWhamme accounted for that, he can at least concede subgames and Breach in Colossus with Anvil trigger on the stack
This specifically applies to Anachronity.
If e is required to try to win the subgame, e will almost always tie at best. But if e can lose the subgame on purpose, the difference is major.
In example: 1v5
I can't race second sun, but I can force the subgame into a never-ending tie, which ties the main game. All I have to is cast both of my threats, and not return them. Anachronity has to cast Second Sun, go through two subgames, then redraw second sun to cast it again for the win. If either of those subgames tie, the whole game is a tie. Can e purposefully play Mana Crypt in the subgame for a suicidal loss, so that the subgame isn't a draw?
No longer staff here.
Players are not required to try to win the subgame; they can concede.
The basis for your question, I think, is an earlier rule describing a hierarchy of in-game objectives; this rule was removed a few years ago.
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Wish I'd asked before. I chose my cards because I thought we'd end up with a lot of subgame ties because no one could win. >_<
5 | 0 6 0 6 X 6 6 6 6 | 36 | 450
1. 0-6 : Can't race the second cast
2. 6-0 : Long drawn out, but I race.
3. 0-6 : Path prevents recur, leaving you at 2 life when I die.
4. 6-0 : I kill turn 7 at 3 life.
5. ---
6. 6-0 : Agreed
7. 6-0 : Head hurts, but I race.
8. 6-0 : Agreed
9. 6-0 : Block Blightsteel enough to live, race recast.
No longer staff here.
[Beacon of Destruction / Capsize] / Mana Drain
X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 |
4| 6 0 6 X 0 6 6 0 3 | 26 | 325
1: 6: Mana Drain would counter Approach of the Second Suns if it were cast, so it isn't. Anachronity wins the subgames but Beacon wins quickly enough to secure the main game.
2: 0: Collective Defiance is a good tactic. I don't know if it's been used before, but I'll keep my eye on the card going forward. Anyway, Defiance removes my Beacon and the Pride tokens win.
3: 6: Path is irrelevant. Our counter-magic can trade. Capsize on a land lets me the first to Beacon each time.
4: -
5: 0: Feyd_Ruin's threats quickly overrun me in the main game.
6: 6: Beacon cleanly deals with Jantesviker's threat, and then with him.
7: 6: If knobbodi could win the subgames – which would involve holding Wheel in hand - then (playing second) I would drop to 3 before dealing the finishing blow (Vindicate on a land resolves), with Mana Drain available to counter Lightning Helix. Thus, at some point, knobbodi must cast Wheel in the main game, therey conceding the subgames.. The ideal time to do so it turn two, since – playing second – I can't counter it. At some point, though, I Capsize the Wheel in response to a Helix, and knobbodi loses.
8: 0:
Suppose tomsloger plays first. Anvil forces me to discard all but Capsize, and then my best option is to Capsize a land. That said, playing Anvil doesn't let Tomsloger win. He must discard Kozilek repeatedly to Anvil, leaving him without a win condition in the subgames. Thus, he can only win the game if he concedes quite a lot of subgames (all of the subgames that don't contain Kozilek). This approach is detailed in the spoiler below. Tom's starting life total is sufficiently high to win when playing first, but not when playing second. When Tom plays second, eventually we enter a subgame which we never leave. The turn sequence is outlined in greater detail in the spoiler below:t# = tomsloger, turn #
m# = Mogg, turn #
1st number = life total at end of turn
2nd number = land count at end of turn
t1: 19, 1
m1: 20, 1
t2: 17, 2, Anvil
m2: 20, 2, discard Mana Drain
t3: 15, 3, discard Pox
m3: 20, 3, discard Capsize
t4: 13, 4, discard Kozilek
m4: 20, 4
t5: 12, 5, discard Pox
m5: 18, 5
t6: 11, 6, discard Kozilek
m6: 18, 6
t7: 10, 7, discard Pox
m7: 16, 7
t8: 9, 8, discard Kozilek
m8: 14, 8
t9: 7, 9, discard Kozilek
m9: 14, 9
t10: 5, 10, discard Pox, cast Kozilek
m10: 14, 10
t11: 3, 11, attack
m11: 2, 7
t12: 2, 12, attack
m1: 20, 1
t1: 18, 1
m2: 20, 2
t2: 16, 2, Anvil (mana drain)
m3: 19, 3, Beacon
t3: 7, 2, Pox (Tom discards Kozilek and I discard Capsize)
m4: 11, 3
t4: 5, 3, draw Kozilek
m5: 11, 4
t5: 3, 4, draw Anvil, cast Anvil
m6: 10, 5, discard Beacon (the last land arrives just a moment too late!)
t6: 3, 5, discard Kozilek, we enter a subgame from which we don't return
Note: Per CzarBomba's comment,
tomsloger wins the 2-on-2 subgame.
As noted in response, the outcome of the match is the same.
9: 3: Playing first, I counter Anvil and Capsize Colossus. Playing second, Anvil resolves and Breach-Colossus gets the job done. EDIT: Changed to 4-1, then back to 3-3, based on knobbodi's, then Anachronity's reasoning.
Additionally, I think it bears noting that – while the subgame rule ultimately had a small effect on the games, I think the effect on hand construction was more pronounced.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
[Lightning Helix / Wheel of Sun and Moon] / Vindicate
VS:
1) Anachronity
[Approach of the Second Sun / Mana Crypt] / Summer Bloom
--Lightning helix isn't fast enough and in the main game I could loop vindicate, but you drain me by 1 to death in the subgame 0-6
2) CalvinSchwa
[Collective Defiance / Pride of the Clouds] / Wheel of Sun and Moon
--In the subgame my clock is faster than yours, but collective defiance means I have to play wheel in the maingame. Vindicate on your own wheel means that I win there too. 6-0
3) CzarBomba :: I can't let you do that
[Beacon of Destruction / Path to Exile] / Arcane Denial
--Even on the play, winning just the subgames won't do the job and using helix in the main game means that the subgames+beacon kill me one turn earlier than helix would kill you 0-6
4) Mogg
[Beacon of Destruction / Capsize] / Mana Drain
--Same as CzarBomba except you can complicate things further by bouncing Wheel 0-6
5) Feyd_Ruin :: I have no idea what I'm doing Teach
[Firewing Phoenix / Reach of Branches] / Exploration
--If I go for the main game, losing the subgame makes me lose the race, but the subgame doesn't win quick enough vs your maingame 0-6
6) Jantesviker
[Reclamation Sage / Shriekmaw] / Faerie Macabre
--In either the main game or subgame, reclamation sage stops my win condition but if I wait for you to play shriekmaw in the subgame or faerie macabre or shriekmaw in the main game I can cast wheel and helix in the same turn for removal equal to your threats (using vindicate as well in the main game) 2-2
8) tomsloger
[Kozilek, Butcher of Truth / Pox] / Anvil of Bogardan
--
If you ever cast Anvil, I have to play Wheel to not lose (discarding vindicate if OTD) and we draw because neither of us have win conditions in the subgame. And in the main game, in order to not lose to anvil after you pox once I have to play wheel, meaning we draw either way 2-2Looped helix races faster than pox kozilek meaning I win the subgame, and if you cast anvil in the main game, you can't ever cast pox while hoping to loop it, because kozilek will always be in your deck during your main phase. And even OTD I have vindicate to discard to anvil to protect wheel. 6-09) WhammeWhamme
[Blightsteel Colossus / Through the Breach] / Anvil of Bogardan
--
If you ever cast Anvil, I have to play Wheel to not lose (discarding vindicate if OTD) and we draw because neither of us have win conditions in the subgame. In the maingame, I could loop vindicate to keep you off of 5 so we draw either way 2-2Blightsteel races me in either the subgame or the maingame, so even in the main game I can't loop Vindicate to pull a draw. 0-6X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 |
7| 0 6 0 0 0 2 X 6 0 | 14 | 175
From your spoiler, how are you winning the first few subgames against tomsloger before cards start getting discarded in the main game? Even if you discard capsize to the first Pox you must sac a land, putting you 3 turns from casting Beacon. Even in the worst case scenario, tomsloger will draw the pox in two turns and force you to discard the Beacon before you get your 5th land drop.
I'm not sure if this messes with the math for the outcome of the main games, but tomsloger should be winning the first couple subgames, forcing you to lose some early life.