If your card is a Morph, it gets countered, you can't play abilities, etc. etc.
This is a TERRIBLE FORMAT and SHOULD NOT BE PLAYED.
(and yeah, first turn 6 power says my first deck does just fine against Morphs - I name the first card you plan to cascade into and just get beating...)
Ok, I can't sign in the the phm mod account from a phone, but I don't really know what to do anyway.
I'll admit, I missed the part about spells being free to cast and STILL thought the format was broken.
But I think it's probably too late in the week to make that or any other major change.
Shall we all just submit something broken and tie a lot?
If your card is a Morph, it gets countered, you can't play abilities, etc. etc.
This is a TERRIBLE FORMAT and SHOULD NOT BE PLAYED.
(and yeah, first turn 6 power says my first deck does just fine against Morphs - I name the first card you plan to cascade into and just get beating...)
The hand I posted can beat your first deck because you can only name one half of the split cards and no matter the cascade is into I can still remove all your creatures. I don't think it would be too hard to fix it so it can beat that hand though.
I'm new to PHM, and I am so incredibly lost that I have no idea where to go. Can somebody please explain to me what the "norms" are for a deck or a sample deck with this leagues current stipulations?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
This round is extra nuts. Normally there are two broad categories: Basic Land Rule and No Land Rule
With no land rule, what you take is what you get. Black lotus, Mishra's Workshop, storage lands tend to make an apperence here, with top deck archetypes being:
Shelldock Isle / Lions Eye Diamond / Emrakul
Urborg, Tomb of Yaugmoth / Thesbian Stage / Dark Depths
Leyline of Singularity / Karakas
With Basic Land Rule, you can play a basic land from outside the game any time you could play a land. You can play bigger spells in this format, but to compensate, usually the hand size is smaller. Top archetypes are:
Beast Within / Elixir of Immortality
Shelldock Isle / LED / Emrakul
Leyline of Singularity / Karakas
Mayor of Avabruck
Warden of the First Tree
In this round, there is a land rule, but (at the moment) spells are free, so it's not that relevant. The most important thing in this round is to have instant speed interaction (so you can respond to your opponent trying to win/ lock you out of the game). Since spells are free, you might as well play an instant with X as the card in your hand, so you can cascade into anything in your deck. Deck structure/stacking is important, you want to do as many things with that as you can. There are few simple examples earlier in the thread of decks that people (including myself) think are good. You have to pick and choose and adapt to what you think other people will play to try and beat the most other submissions.
So, to clarify, spells are free?
EDIT: Also, unlike other forms of PHM (at least from what I can gather) we have libraries and draw from them just like regular Magic?
SECOND EDIT: I can also play mana accelerance, even if they are Power 9? (Minus Lotus) They don't appear on the ban list.
THIRD EDIT: (I'll get a grip one if these dayds) Do we get to select the order of our libraries?
All spells gain cascade, and players may cast spells without paying their mana cost.
Players don't draw cards during their draw step.
Deck Size: 1 card in your hand, and any number of up to 1000 cards in your library.
Land Rule: Basic Land Rule
Additional Banned list: Mindbreak Trap, Stifle, and any other spell which disables triggered abilities. Also please remember to check the land rule banned list in addition to the regular banned list
Yes, having a library doesn't always happen (usually not).
If your card is a Morph, it gets countered, you can't play abilities, etc. etc.
This is a TERRIBLE FORMAT and SHOULD NOT BE PLAYED.
(and yeah, first turn 6 power says my first deck does just fine against Morphs - I name the first card you plan to cascade into and just get beating...)
The hand I posted can beat your first deck because you can only name one half of the split cards and no matter the cascade is into I can still remove all your creatures. I don't think it would be too hard to fix it so it can beat that hand though.
Skyshroud Cutter/Nevermore/Grizzly Bears/Pithing Needle/Chalice of the Void should beat everything, as Chalice beats morphs, Needle beats lands/channel/cycling and Nevermore beats spells. And Grizzly Bears beats Chancellor of the Forge's goblin token.
And for this week, if we don't change anything from the original rules...
Hand:
Blinkmoth Infusion
Deck:
Heroes Remembered
Garruk, Apex Predator
Knowledge Pool
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Venser, Shaper Savant
Nevermore
Phyrexian Revoker
Pithing Needle
Chalice of the Void
Could have more copies of everything but I can't be bothered trying harder.
If your card is a Morph, it gets countered, you can't play abilities, etc. etc.
This is a TERRIBLE FORMAT and SHOULD NOT BE PLAYED.
(and yeah, first turn 6 power says my first deck does just fine against Morphs - I name the first card you plan to cascade into and just get beating...)
The hand I posted can beat your first deck because you can only name one half of the split cards and no matter the cascade is into I can still remove all your creatures. I don't think it would be too hard to fix it so it can beat that hand though.
Skyshroud Cutter/Nevermore/Grizzly Bears/Pithing Needle/Chalice of the Void should beat everything, as Chalice beats morphs, Needle beats lands/channel/cycling and Nevermore beats spells. And Grizzly Bears beats Chancellor of the Forge's goblin token.
Heh, nice catch... the top 7 cards of your deck should be (if you're properly paranoid), Blinkmoth Infusion, Draco, etc. etc., since you can cascade past them.
Additional Banned list:Mindbreak Trap, Stifle, and any other spell which disables triggered abilities. Also please remember to check the land rule banned list in addition to the regular banned list
Did we ever get a ruling on what it means for a spell to "disable a triggered ability"?
So, Mindbreak Trap is banned because it's explicitly banned. Stifle, Trickbind, and Voidslime are banned because each can counter a triggered ability. Time Stop is banned because ending the turn entails exiling every object on the stack - including triggered abilities.
Sundial of the Infinite disables a triggered ability in exactly the same manner as Time Stop, only with a timing restriction. However, it does so on resolution of an activated ability, rather than on resolution of a spell. Day's Undoing, resolved at instant speed, does meet the same criteria as Time Stop, so I would expect it to be banned.
I assume Torpor Orb is banned, because it prevents abilities from triggering.
Is Nevermore banned, because it disables a player from casting a spell that would enable a triggered ability?
Is targeted removal banned, because a triggered ability with no legal target is countered by the game rules?
It also appears to me that cards such as Counterflux and Swift Silence are legal, since they do not directly interact with triggered abilities; however, this was likely an omission, since they behave similarly to Mindbreak Trap. This late in the round, it doesn't make sense to ban additional cards, but I would like to be explicit about which cards are banned.
Would anyone object to the following more narrow definition?
"Additional bans: Mindbreak Trap, Any instant or sorcery card that can counter a triggered ability or end the turn as that card resolves as a spell."
If not - tomsloger, can you please amend the opening post, so the ban list isn't ambiguous.
OP updated. note the bolded word "target"
this means voidslime/trickbind stay banned but timestop somehow is totally legal.
this is the easiest change i could think to make.
because this week is sort of a wash and i think we should probably remove it from the monthly scoring.
it probably belongs with the PHM holiday specials and that april fools format.
i will check legality after a little sleep then a little work (approximately 11 hours from now)
Player 1: Darksteel Relic / Darksteel Relic / Darksteel Relic / Darksteel Relic / Darksteel Relic and never plays the lands they draw, instead discards them.
Challenge:
The shortest hand + library I could find that I believe guarantees a draw is Time Stop + Recoil.
Can anyone find a combination of hand + library that beats this?
Challenge:
The shortest hand + library I could find that I believe guarantees a draw is Time Stop + Recoil.
Can anyone find a combination of hand + library that beats this?
Yeah, the Skyshroud Cutter version goes:
Cutter
-> Nevermore
-> Hesitation
-> Pithing Needle
-> Memnite
If your card is a Morph, it gets countered, you can't play abilities, etc. etc.
This is a TERRIBLE FORMAT and SHOULD NOT BE PLAYED.
(and yeah, first turn 6 power says my first deck does just fine against Morphs - I name the first card you plan to cascade into and just get beating...)
I'll admit, I missed the part about spells being free to cast and STILL thought the format was broken.
But I think it's probably too late in the week to make that or any other major change.
Shall we all just submit something broken and tie a lot?
The hand I posted can beat your first deck because you can only name one half of the split cards and no matter the cascade is into I can still remove all your creatures. I don't think it would be too hard to fix it so it can beat that hand though.
Edit: Replacing Krosan Cloudscaper with Akroma, Angel of Fury beats the second one too.
It does lose to Reverent Silence Thieves' Fortune|Pithing Needle|Summoner's Pact|Autochthon Wurm|Nourishing Shoal|Platinum Angel|Knowledge Pool|Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir|
With no land rule, what you take is what you get. Black lotus, Mishra's Workshop, storage lands tend to make an apperence here, with top deck archetypes being:
Shelldock Isle / Lions Eye Diamond / Emrakul
Urborg, Tomb of Yaugmoth / Thesbian Stage / Dark Depths
Leyline of Singularity / Karakas
With Basic Land Rule, you can play a basic land from outside the game any time you could play a land. You can play bigger spells in this format, but to compensate, usually the hand size is smaller. Top archetypes are:
Beast Within / Elixir of Immortality
Shelldock Isle / LED / Emrakul
Leyline of Singularity / Karakas
Mayor of Avabruck
Warden of the First Tree
In this round, there is a land rule, but (at the moment) spells are free, so it's not that relevant. The most important thing in this round is to have instant speed interaction (so you can respond to your opponent trying to win/ lock you out of the game). Since spells are free, you might as well play an instant with X as the card in your hand, so you can cascade into anything in your deck. Deck structure/stacking is important, you want to do as many things with that as you can. There are few simple examples earlier in the thread of decks that people (including myself) think are good. You have to pick and choose and adapt to what you think other people will play to try and beat the most other submissions.
EDIT: Also, unlike other forms of PHM (at least from what I can gather) we have libraries and draw from them just like regular Magic?
SECOND EDIT: I can also play mana accelerance, even if they are Power 9? (Minus Lotus) They don't appear on the ban list.
THIRD EDIT: (I'll get a grip one if these dayds) Do we get to select the order of our libraries?
Yes, having a library doesn't always happen (usually not).
Okay, for picky people:
Skyshroud Cutter/Nevermore/Grizzly Bears/Pithing Needle/Chalice of the Void should beat everything, as Chalice beats morphs, Needle beats lands/channel/cycling and Nevermore beats spells. And Grizzly Bears beats Chancellor of the Forge's goblin token.
And for this week, if we don't change anything from the original rules...
Hand:
Blinkmoth Infusion
Deck:
Heroes Remembered
Garruk, Apex Predator
Knowledge Pool
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Venser, Shaper Savant
Nevermore
Phyrexian Revoker
Pithing Needle
Chalice of the Void
Could have more copies of everything but I can't be bothered trying harder.
Can it beat chancellor of the spires?
Did I mention this is a stupid format?
Did we ever get a ruling on what it means for a spell to "disable a triggered ability"?
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Mindbreak Trap, Stifle, Trickbind, Voidslime, Time Stop
I think Sundial of the Infinite and Days Undoing get passes because they only end the turn on your turn.
Sundial of the Infinite disables a triggered ability in exactly the same manner as Time Stop, only with a timing restriction. However, it does so on resolution of an activated ability, rather than on resolution of a spell. Day's Undoing, resolved at instant speed, does meet the same criteria as Time Stop, so I would expect it to be banned.
I assume Torpor Orb is banned, because it prevents abilities from triggering.
Is Nevermore banned, because it disables a player from casting a spell that would enable a triggered ability?
Is targeted removal banned, because a triggered ability with no legal target is countered by the game rules?
It also appears to me that cards such as Counterflux and Swift Silence are legal, since they do not directly interact with triggered abilities; however, this was likely an omission, since they behave similarly to Mindbreak Trap. This late in the round, it doesn't make sense to ban additional cards, but I would like to be explicit about which cards are banned.
Would anyone object to the following more narrow definition?
"Additional bans: Mindbreak Trap, Any instant or sorcery card that can counter a triggered ability or end the turn as that card resolves as a spell."
If not - tomsloger, can you please amend the opening post, so the ban list isn't ambiguous.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
this means voidslime/trickbind stay banned but timestop somehow is totally legal.
this is the easiest change i could think to make.
because this week is sort of a wash and i think we should probably remove it from the monthly scoring.
it probably belongs with the PHM holiday specials and that april fools format.
i will check legality after a little sleep then a little work (approximately 11 hours from now)
5 Card DLR Backbuild
Has to 6-0 one of the two following players:
Player 1: Darksteel Relic / Darksteel Relic / Darksteel Relic / Darksteel Relic / Darksteel Relic and never plays the lands they draw, instead discards them.
Player 2: Mishra's Factory / Evermind / Evermind / Evermind / Evermind
This doesn't set up very many restrictions, but keeps the format from being too silly.
or punish me for sucking and make me do it.
Follow me to be notified when weekly Perfect Hand Magic results are posted
Time Stop + Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir / Dust Elemental / Venser, Shaper Savant / Eternal Witness
Other notes:
Marshaling Cry would break the format if it were instant and Blast from the Past would break the format if it were legal.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
The shortest hand + library I could find that I believe guarantees a draw is Time Stop + Recoil.
Can anyone find a combination of hand + library that beats this?
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Marshaling Cry|Cryptic Command|Vithian Stinger|Squire|Akrasan Squire|Vithian Stinger|Squire
I think this beats it.
I get two lands and cycle cry for cryptic and then I can protect cry.