1) WhammWhamme - Matchup Calculation Hell?
City of Traitors
Anvil of Bogardan
Phyrexian Revoker
Smokestack
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
I knew this was going to be painful when I designed it...
2) knoboddi -
The arbitrarily large vortex:
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Scrubland
Bazaar of Baghdad
Smallpox
Oblivion Ring
...and the first entry confirmed my fear.
3) dasheiff - Counter-Emrakul
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Foil
Island
Lion's Eye Diamond
Shelldock Isle
4) Feyd_Ruin - Shelldock Fiend - Now possible with Upwelling!
Black Lotus
Mesmeric Fiend
Lions Eye Diamond
Shelldock Isle
Emrakul, the Eons Torn
5) ~Tilde~ - Big Guys
City of Traitors
Sol Ring
Sol Ring
Blightsteel Colossus
Ulamog the Infinite Gyre
6) Hinotama - MRC
Chancellor of the Forge
Blazing Shoal
Grove of the Burnswillow
Punishing Fire
Soul's Fire
7) bateleur - Probably not all that amazing, but I'm terrible at building control decks!
Tropical Island
Daze
Thrun, the Last Troll
Foil
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
8) Puddlejumper - Pollution
Mishra's Workshop
Gods' Eye, Gate to the Rekai
Sword of the Meek
Junk Diver
Smokestack
X 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
1 X 6 6 3 3 6 6 6
2 0 X 6 0 0 6 6 6
3 0 0 X 3 6 6 6 6
4 3 6 3 X 6 6 6 6
5 3 6 0 0 X 6 6 6
6 0 0 0 0 0 X 0 0
7 0 0 0 0 0 6 X 2
8 0 0 0 0 0 6 2 X
Note: I BELIEVE that 1 vs. 2 goes to 1, but my head asploded trying to model all possible plans.
Also, my head asploded in 1 vs. 3, but I'm pretty sure I've got him.
Resources:
Rules
0. Overview
Five Card Blind (5CB) is a weekly Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit five-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules of Magic.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly five cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
1.5. Each player plays two games (one match) against each other player.
1.5a. Each player is the starting player once per match.
1.5b. If no player can win, the game is a draw.
1.5c. Games are played with perfect information.
1.5d. Games are played optimally; players attempt to win, draw, or extend the game – in that order.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 5CB moderator.
2.1a. A player may submit multiple decks, but only the most recent deck is counted.
2.1b. An illegal deck is not counted. The removal of an illegal deck does not affect deck distribution (see Rule 2.4).
2.1c. The moderator determines the result of each match. Players may challenge results, but not after the results of the first round belonging to a new month have been posted (see Rule 2.5a).
2.1d. Players are expected to name their decks. In the event they do not do so, the moderator may, at their discretion, name it whatever strikes their fancy.
2.2. Decks are subject to some restrictions.
2.2a. A player may not submit a deck that can – against any deck – win the game or force more than one card in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn.
2.2b. A player may not submit a deck that can't win both games of a match against at least one deck satisfying 2.2a and 2.2c.
2.2c. A deck may include any number of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1), with the exception of the following banned cards:
2.2d. A deck may include any number of any card that will become legal in Vintage upon release of a set that has been revealed fully and officially.
2.3. Points determine tournament standings.
2.3a. Players are ranked – first to last – in order of decreasing number of points.
2.3b. For each match, a player earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. However, a player earns only 2 points for a split match (one win, one loss).
2.3c. A table of match results is posted each round. Its rows represent players and its columns represent opponents. Match results reflect the combined result of both games played in a match; 3 is a game win, 1 a drawn game, and 0 a game loss. 2 may be used instead of 3 to denote a split match. A player's points are listed at the end of his or her row.
2.4. In rounds of twenty or more players, players are divided randomly into equally-sized heats of n players, where n is the number of players divided by ten (rounded down).
For example, twenty-five players are divided into heats of twelve and thirteen.
2.4a. Except in the finals, a player only plays against players in his heat.
2.4b. The top four players of each heat advance to the finals, where they play again (with the same decks).
2.4c. Tiebreakers for advancement to the finals are as follows: number of matches in which a player wins both games, number of game wins, points scored against higher-scoring decks. If a tie is unresolved, the tied decks advance.
2.5. The player with the most POTM points over the course of a month is the Player of the Month.
2.5a. A month includes all rounds for which decks are due during that month.
2.5b. Each round, each player received POTM points equal to their AVERAGE match result for that round, rounded down to 1 decimal place. For example, if in a round of 8 decks, a player goes 6-6-6-6-X-0-0-0, they received (24/7) or 3.4, while an undefeated deck receives 6 points.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
On 7v8, bateleur can't win without playing his Tropical Island. If he goes for a tie and doesn't play it, I can still win with Gods' Eye, Gate to the Rekai. If he does play it, I can build up to 5 mana and play Smokestack, which will force him to both Daze and Foil it, which empties his hand and puts all his cards except Thrun in his library. At this point, random effects go in my favor, so I can basically dictate the order he draws the cards in, right? So he draws Ulamog on his turn and passes. I play Junk Diver getting back Smokestack. He draws Foil and passes. I play Smokestack. He cannot fail to lose from here.
Feyd-Ruin's and dashieff's decks have the same issue with the library, it looks like: it is never ideal for the opponent if they ever draws Shelldock Isle before Emrakul, so it just never happens. Feyd can't get Emrakul in his graveyard without either playing Shelldock Isle first (so it doesn't hideaway anything), or else discarding it with Emrakul, in which case it's useless given the rules. So he can get out Emrakul turn 4, or turn 5 if he plays the Fiend before then. dashieff can't get out Emrakul before turn 9 on his own without playing the Island (which would neuter his deck), but countering stuff accelerates him. I can't beat Feyd's deck anyway, but I can beat dashieff's. If he tries to play his Lion's Eye Diamond before I play Smokestack, I can force the Smokestack through, and he won't ever be able to keep a land in play long enough get to Emrakul mana. If he waits to play it, then I have time to force through Junk Diver and Smokestack the same way I can vs. bateleur, and he still can't get to Emrakul mana.
Against WhammWhamme, I can win going first. I play Workshop and pass. He plays City and Anvil and passes. I discard Sword of the Meek, play God's Eye, put a token into play, attach Sword to it, and play Smokestack. His turn, he discards Revoker and adds two mana. My turn, I add a counter to Smokestack and discard Junk Diver, and attack for 2. His turn, he sacrifices City, discards Emrakul to fill his library, draws Emrakul and Revoker, and plays Smokestack. My turn, I sac Gods' Eye, add a second counter to Smokestack, and attack for 2. His turn, he sacs Smokestack and Anvil, and does not discard anything because anvil is dead by the time it would have triggered in the draw step, plays City and Revoker. My turn, sac Workshop and Smokestack, attack for two. He's at 14 and will lose both the damage race and the race to hardcast Emrakul.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
I'm fairly certain they can just put the hideaway trigger on the stack, then sac LED and hide away emrakul. Also, against whammwhamme, how do you put a token into play with gods' eye on the second turn? It only makes a token when it dies. And against bateleur, if he doesn't play his land, your only way to win would be playing junk diver, and he could then play his land and daze+foil your smokestack, and be able to outrace you with thrun.
On 7v8, bateleur can't win without playing his Tropical Island. If he goes for a tie and doesn't play it, I can still win with Gods' Eye, Gate to the Rekai. If he does play it, I can build up to 5 mana and play Smokestack, which will force him to both Daze and Foil it, which empties his hand and puts all his cards except Thrun in his library. At this point, random effects go in my favor, so I can basically dictate the order he draws the cards in, right? So he draws Ulamog on his turn and passes. I play Junk Diver getting back Smokestack. He draws Foil and passes. I play Smokestack. He cannot fail to lose from here.
Feyd-Ruin's and dashieff's decks have the same issue with the library, it looks like: it is never ideal for the opponent if they ever draws Shelldock Isle before Emrakul, so it just never happens. Feyd can't get Emrakul in his graveyard without either playing Shelldock Isle first (so it doesn't hideaway anything), or else discarding it with Emrakul, in which case it's useless given the rules. So he can get out Emrakul turn 4, or turn 5 if he plays the Fiend before then. dashieff can't get out Emrakul before turn 9 on his own without playing the Island (which would neuter his deck), but countering stuff accelerates him. I can't beat Feyd's deck anyway, but I can beat dashieff's. If he tries to play his Lion's Eye Diamond before I play Smokestack, I can force the Smokestack through, and he won't ever be able to keep a land in play long enough get to Emrakul mana. If he waits to play it, then I have time to force through Junk Diver and Smokestack the same way I can vs. bateleur, and he still can't get to Emrakul mana.
Against WhammWhamme, I can win going first. I play Workshop and pass. He plays City and Anvil and passes. I discard Sword of the Meek, play God's Eye, put a token into play, attach Sword to it, and play Smokestack. His turn, he discards Revoker and adds two mana. My turn, I add a counter to Smokestack and discard Junk Diver, and attack for 2. His turn, he sacrifices City, discards Emrakul to fill his library, draws Emrakul and Revoker, and plays Smokestack. My turn, I sac Gods' Eye, add a second counter to Smokestack, and attack for 2. His turn, he sacs Smokestack and Anvil, and does not discard anything because anvil is dead by the time it would have triggered in the draw step, plays City and Revoker. My turn, sac Workshop and Smokestack, attack for two. He's at 14 and will lose both the damage race and the race to hardcast Emrakul.
tl;dr - proposed changes:
1v8 3-3
3v8 0-6
7v8 0-6
I'll give you bat. The Shelldock Isle decks... hideaway allows you to rearrange things, and they discard with the hideaway trigger on the stack. So they can Shelldock Isle out Emrakul on turn two.
Me... I don't believe the line of play you outlined is correct. Why would I set up the Sword of the Meek hit for you? All I need is 2 more life in your outlined scenario to win the race with Emrakul.
Using the above plan, I think optimal is:
Workshop, float, pass
City, float
God's Eye, Smokestack
float
I can float indefinately, and once Smokestack gets going I can wait for it to run out before going back to floating (with the aim of getting Emrakul in action), and then I can set up my own soft Smokestack lock of 'sacrifice City/revoker, redraw Emrakul and a card, replay something' to eventually attrition away your permanents.
Basically, mana in pool is a big asset against smokestack. This is a HORRIBLE match-up to work out all the lines of play for though. =(
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
1) WhammWhamme - Matchup Calculation Hell?
City of Traitors
Anvil of Bogardan
Phyrexian Revoker
Smokestack
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
I knew this was going to be painful when I designed it...
2) knoboddi -
The arbitrarily large vortex:
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Scrubland
Bazaar of Baghdad
Smallpox
Oblivion Ring
...and the first entry confirmed my fear.
3) dasheiff - Counter-Emrakul
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Foil
Island
Lion's Eye Diamond
Shelldock Isle
4) Feyd_Ruin - Shelldock Fiend - Now possible with Upwelling!
Black Lotus
Mesmeric Fiend
Lions Eye Diamond
Shelldock Isle
Emrakul, the Eons Torn
5) ~Tilde~ - Big Guys
City of Traitors
Sol Ring
Sol Ring
Blightsteel Colossus
Ulamog the Infinite Gyre
6) Hinotama - MRC
Chancellor of the Forge
Blazing Shoal
Grove of the Burnswillow
Punishing Fire
Soul's Fire
7) bateleur - Probably not all that amazing, but I'm terrible at building control decks!
Tropical Island
Daze
Thrun, the Last Troll
Foil
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
8) Puddlejumper - Pollution
Mishra's Workshop
Gods' Eye, Gate to the Rekai
Sword of the Meek
Junk Diver
Smokestack
X 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
1 X 6 6 3 3 6 6 6
2 0 X 6 0 0 6 6 6
3 0 0 X 3 6 6 6 6
4 3 6 3 X 6 6 6 6
5 3 6 0 0 X 6 6 6
6 0 0 0 0 0 X 0 0
7 0 0 0 0 0 6 X 2
8 0 0 0 0 0 6 2 X
Note: I BELIEVE that 1 vs. 2 goes to 1, but my head asploded trying to model all possible plans.
Also, my head asploded in 1 vs. 3, but I'm pretty sure I've got him.
Resources:
Rules
0. Overview
Five Card Blind (5CB) is a weekly Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit five-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules of Magic.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly five cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
1.5. Each player plays two games (one match) against each other player. 2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 5CB moderator. 2.2. Decks are subject to some restrictions. 2.3. Points determine tournament standings. 2.4. In rounds of twenty or more players, players are divided randomly into equally-sized heats of n players, where n is the number of players divided by ten (rounded down). 2.5. The player with the most POTM points over the course of a month is the Player of the Month.
Rounds
Season 3:
Promatim - 1
POTM
As of now, none for Season 3
Dom Camus
Five Card Blind
Nick Chandler-Klein
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 1)
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 2)
Three Card Blind: A Whole Different Format (Part 3)
Alex Hoffman
Going Blind: A First Look at Lands
Going Blind: A Non-Basic Approach
Going Blind: Metagaming – Being Overly Analytical
Going Blind: Metagaming #2 – All Decked Out
Going Blind: XCB Metagaming – A Prolonged Conclusion
Forum Articles
Madmanquail
5CB Strategy
Mogg
5CB Strategy
eh, why not?
Cards from the New Phyrexia set may be cast as though all their mana symbols were Phyrexian Mana Symbols.
Does that include the colourless or just the coloured part?
All. Colourless included. (you have to pay 2 life per colourless mana as well; no freebies)
I submitted a deck for this on the 4th and it didn't get calculated. Do you have to do something special to be able to make submissions for this game?
No, my mistake (think I lost the tab to laptop crash). Repost the deck here and I'll get to calculating it.
Mishra's Workshop, Gods' Eye, Gate to the Rekai, Sword of the Meek, Junk Diver, Smokestack
I didn't really know what I was doing, but it seemed like it could work pretty well.
Added in... please tell me where I'm wrong on the scoring.
(It's not a terrible deck design, but this was a week where you need more than just a Smokestack and a lot of permanents...)
Feyd-Ruin's and dashieff's decks have the same issue with the library, it looks like: it is never ideal for the opponent if they ever draws Shelldock Isle before Emrakul, so it just never happens. Feyd can't get Emrakul in his graveyard without either playing Shelldock Isle first (so it doesn't hideaway anything), or else discarding it with Emrakul, in which case it's useless given the rules. So he can get out Emrakul turn 4, or turn 5 if he plays the Fiend before then. dashieff can't get out Emrakul before turn 9 on his own without playing the Island (which would neuter his deck), but countering stuff accelerates him. I can't beat Feyd's deck anyway, but I can beat dashieff's. If he tries to play his Lion's Eye Diamond before I play Smokestack, I can force the Smokestack through, and he won't ever be able to keep a land in play long enough get to Emrakul mana. If he waits to play it, then I have time to force through Junk Diver and Smokestack the same way I can vs. bateleur, and he still can't get to Emrakul mana.
Against WhammWhamme, I can win going first. I play Workshop and pass. He plays City and Anvil and passes. I discard Sword of the Meek, play God's Eye, put a token into play, attach Sword to it, and play Smokestack. His turn, he discards Revoker and adds two mana. My turn, I add a counter to Smokestack and discard Junk Diver, and attack for 2. His turn, he sacrifices City, discards Emrakul to fill his library, draws Emrakul and Revoker, and plays Smokestack. My turn, I sac Gods' Eye, add a second counter to Smokestack, and attack for 2. His turn, he sacs Smokestack and Anvil, and does not discard anything because anvil is dead by the time it would have triggered in the draw step, plays City and Revoker. My turn, sac Workshop and Smokestack, attack for two. He's at 14 and will lose both the damage race and the race to hardcast Emrakul.
tl;dr - proposed changes:
1v8 3-3
3v8 0-6
7v8 0-6
I'll give you bat. The Shelldock Isle decks... hideaway allows you to rearrange things, and they discard with the hideaway trigger on the stack. So they can Shelldock Isle out Emrakul on turn two.
Me... I don't believe the line of play you outlined is correct. Why would I set up the Sword of the Meek hit for you? All I need is 2 more life in your outlined scenario to win the race with Emrakul.
Using the above plan, I think optimal is:
Workshop, float, pass
City, float
God's Eye, Smokestack
float
I can float indefinately, and once Smokestack gets going I can wait for it to run out before going back to floating (with the aim of getting Emrakul in action), and then I can set up my own soft Smokestack lock of 'sacrifice City/revoker, redraw Emrakul and a card, replay something' to eventually attrition away your permanents.
Basically, mana in pool is a big asset against smokestack. This is a HORRIBLE match-up to work out all the lines of play for though. =(
..and when is the next round?
I hasn't missed it yet, has I? >_<
No longer staff here.
My only caveat: Many weeks I will leave it up to the players to help do the scoring.
I'll give it a few days, and if no one else wants it, I'll post up a new round.
Classic 5CB is just too fun to not stick around.
No longer staff here.