@brasil_dude: Nicely done! You're right that practicing is the biggest advice I could offer. With more cards you get a steadier hand and a better idea of how to layer art. The first rare I did was something like my 80th or 90th card, but most people don't wait as long as I did I think
Your pictures are actually pretty good. Having the alternate angle helped a lot in figuring out some of your layering that wasn't clear from looking at the first pictures. It took me a long time to find a way of photographing that I'm happy with. When I first started doing this I took pictures using the built-in webcam of my Macbook
Other than practice:
1) Like most 3D cards, yours could benefit from better edging. It's probably not as noticeable in person (it rarely is) but pictures always make the white spots stand out a lot more.
2) Your alternate angle of Goblin Shortcutter makes it look like you have 1 layer of the top of his staff, then a layer with his hand, then a layer with the bottom of the staff. (If I'm wrong, ignore this tip): When you have a layer (layer A) that starts in front of another layer (layer B) but ends up behind it, sometimes it can work very well to bend layer A so that it moves behind layer B smoothly. For example, in my Azami, the brown scroll that goes over her arm is attached to a layer that's in front of her whole body, that is bent and curved over her arm. For the shortcutter, you could cut a layer like this: ...and bend it back so it moves from in front to behind the hand. The way you did it doesn't look bad, but that's a technique you might like to try with a future card.
By better edging do you mean the cutting or coloring the edges in?
And yeah, that is exactly what I did with the staff. And that seems like a good idea. I didn't think of it at the time, but even now I'm not sure I would have done it because I don't know how I could've made it seem as though it was going through his grip that way. If I get 6 more Shortcutters, I'll try it though.
Although, if you look at the alternate angle for my Shortcutter, it's clearly visible how all I did as the layers went up was remove pieces that were "deeper" in (Compare his leg to the edge-block, you'll see what I mean). Your Azami doesn't appear to have that repeated-layer structure. How?
Also, do you have decks for all of those EDH Generals? If so, I hope you don't mind, but we seem to have Similar tastes (I'm currently building both a Kresh and a Wort pile), so you might see some repeats here.
By better edging do you mean the cutting or coloring the edges in?
And yeah, that is exactly what I did with the staff. And that seems like a good idea. I didn't think of it at the time, but even now I'm not sure I would have done it because I don't know how I could've made it seem as though it was going through his grip that way. If I get 6 more Shortcutters, I'll try it though.
Although, if you look at the alternate angle for my Shortcutter, it's clearly visible how all I did as the layers went up was remove pieces that were "deeper" in (Compare his leg to the edge-block, you'll see what I mean). Your Azami doesn't appear to have that repeated-layer structure. How?
Also, do you have decks for all of those EDH Generals? If so, I hope you don't mind, but we seem to have Similar tastes (I'm currently building both a Kresh and a Wort pile), so you might see some repeats here.
For edging, I meant coloring the edges.
My "base" technique (the primary way I do layering) is the same as yours - only cut out the deeper parts. You can see it a little in Azami by looking closely at the forward scrolls on the left side. Azami herself was put together with a variety of other techniques so there isn't much to hide. That was simply the art lending itself to a certain way of doing things, not a plan by me to avoid basic layering. I don't think you should do the shortcutter again, it looks plenty good - I just wanted to mention the technique in case it would work well on a future card.
I don't have EDH decks for all of the generals I've made - I wish! My current EDH decks are Phelddagrif, Wort, Boggart Auntie, Atogatog, Sivitri Scarzam, and Norin the Wary. Norin and Sivitri are not completed in 3D yet. I have about half of the generals I've made still in my collection, with the other half either being commissions or auction sales. Definitely post your versions of any generals you make! There's already been a couple duplicates posted in this thread, and I hope to add one of my own by the end of the week
Ah, I see. She just looks so good I didn't notice it before.
Also, in regards to your bending suggestion, I made a Runeclaw Bear today, and I bent the forward arm back about 4 layers (I consider a spacer as a layer), while I bent the back arm about 2 layers forward, both of which added greatly to the 3-D effect. I'll try and get some pictures up soon.
I also have a question regarding your cutting techniques. I suppose the best example of your work I can use to explain my question is Tresserhorn. How did you keep the hair (is it hair?) from peeling or bending? I mean, it's so thin (width-wise). I've been having trouble with thin sections like that, so I figured I'd ask.
That's basically it. I mean, I'm no Serrot or Shazaam, but the technique is pretty much the same (unless you do complex layer transitions like Shazaam was describing earlier). You really only need a sharp blade and patience. Also, I've found that unless your card is like this and has multiple elements (i.e. can be split into multiple layers), you want to have extra spacing to give it more depth. I actually made one of that card, and despite using 6 cards to flesh out the foreground and the character, I still have two spacers dividing the dome from the foreground and the background from the dome. I'll try to get some pictures of my most recent ones up soon.
Spacing is where you have 2 or more of the exact same layer. It adds thickness between layers and makes your card have a more 3d effect.
This makes perfect sense. Now I understand what ThisIsMyName is doing with all those layers.
Alright. 2nd attempt will be... some common I have 50 of. Will be posting when I'm done.
This makes perfect sense. Now I understand what ThisIsMyName is doing with all those layers.
Alright. 2nd attempt will be... some common I have 50 of. Will be posting when I'm done.
Depending on the specific card I'm doing, sometimes I'll just take some jank common, cut out the art and use it a spacer (because I don't always have the patience to cut out multiples of the same thing). If you look at my Goblin Shortcutter or my Cancel on the previous page, both were done with 6 layers of actual cards and 5 "blank" layers (layers without any art in them). I played around with the Shortcutter a bit, as such I have things that exist in blank layers, but those are exceptions.
@Flamekin Demon: in my opinion, there really is no "right" way to do this. only your way. Both Shazaam and I have our own styles to pull off the 3d-ing of cards. i know my style isn't perfect, i've just done it like this from the start and have made it my own. i like to use LOTS of cards and never cut the same line twice.
@Hix: What you say is partially correct. Spacing is to pull the layers a bit more apart so that the card does get more of a 3d look. This is especially helpful when you have a few layers and want to thicken the card or add more of a 3d look. I try not to make the same cut twice, so the layer and the spacer are never of the same cut. I use spacers only around the outer border, art/text box seperator (my mind went blank so i shall call it that), and sometimes the art and floating bits. When used in the art, it is there to reinforce the cut objects and to pull them away from the layer below.
@ThisIsMyName: you sure you haven't done this before? those are some nice clean cuts from what i can tell from you images. The amount of pressure, sharpness of the blade, and steadyness of the hand all are factors in making clean cuts and you sir/ma'am have created some clean cuts for your first attempt. i don't even think mine were that clean. Also, i have a few of that token and have been eyeballing it recently.
@brasil_dude101: i actually use lands as spacers. i have a crap-load of them so... yeah, i always have a lot of them precut as its a pain in the rear to do them when on a crunch time.
@All pplz new to this: there is no right or wrong way, only your way. Do what feels comfortable and natural. Practice, practice, practice. I wasn't instanly good at this, and I'm still learning how to do this after 3yrs of practice. And, while the tutorial page is a bit old and lots of pictures are no longer viewable, there are lots of random bits of useful knowledge there.
@All pplz new to this: there is no right or wrong way, only your way. Do what feels comfortable and natural. Practice, practice, practice. I wasn't instanly good at this, and I'm still learning how to do this after 3yrs of practice. And, while the tutorial page is a bit old and lots of pictures are no longer viewable, there are lots of random bits of useful knowledge there.
Perfectly said.
Do what you think looks good, and don't be afraid to try new things. Though, I probably don't need to say that since if you're making a 3D card you're not afraid to try new things
@brasil_dude: For wispy stuff like Lord of Tresserhorn's hair or the tie on the middle foreground scroll in Azami, Lady of Scrolls, I just use a new blade and cut very carefully. It's true, it's not easy. The biggest thing I've found is that I need to make sure I make each of my cuts fully through the card. Otherwise when I try to remove the bits I've cut out it's easy to tear/bend the part I want left in.
@Flamekin Demon: I do spacing the same way brasil_dude does, which is similar to how serrot does it (but not exactly - we usually recut lines, serrot usually doesn't).
Here's my latest. A couple of months ago I would have lumped this card into the "impossible to do 3D" group, but now it's done and I'm glad I took the commission:
I agree with ThisIsMyName that posting layers more often would be a fun idea, especially since most of the links in the tutorial thread are dead and the spacing/layering question comes up so often. I keep meaning to document everything I do for a card...so here goes. I'll be trying to document each step for my next card. I'll probably post a bunch of progress pictures in the tutorial thread when I finish, and just put the finished card in here.
Here's my latest. A couple of months ago I would have lumped this card into the "impossible to do 3D" group, but now it's done and I'm glad I took the commission:
The little rocks are all cut out from another copy and layered on top, but none of them are actually "floating" (attached to the visible layer below by an intermediate prop-layer, like some of the scrolls in my Azami). They are, however, of different heights off of the dirt storm; about half are the full card thickness while the other half have a varying amounts of thickness removed, and one is leaning on/against another. The alternate angle shows that a bit if you look closely.
I started this thread at the beginning of May and there were zero responses for the first month. I posted some pictures of my cards to dragonhighlander.net near the end of May and got a few requests for commissions immediately there. The beginning of June is when people responded to this thread, and I got a few requests here at that point. Posting some cards for auction also got me a couple of inquiries.
I'm not getting rich any time soon from commissions, that's for sure. I end up putting so much time into my cards that I make a good deal less than minimum wage when I sell one. When I first started making 3D cards, it took me just a few hours to finish a card. As I've gotten better, the basics take a lot less time, but I put more into each card (lots more details) and I work on harder cards, so the time involved has gone way up.
Ok so here is my second attempt at 3Ds. Not sure how well the picture quality is, but I learned that I needed to use a different blade. And coloring the edges helped SO MUCH. So here's the Time Spiral mountain.
@chwong: Thanks! Glad to hear you're going to try this out - make sure to post the results
@Flamekin Demon: You're right that it's a bit blurry, but even with the blurriness it's easy to tell how much better you did already. The raised red mana symbol especially looks well done, and I imagine that's a tricky thing to cut out. The shadows around the trees make it look like you did some spacing, too. Nicely done - keep it up!
That's awesome. Are all of the little rocks floaters? If so, wow.
BTW, how did you ever get people to start commissioning work?
I saw Shazaam's work in the [Official] Altered Art Thread, then looked over a few pieces that were on ebay at the time. After that I asked him to commission that big baby. The picture looks amazing, and I can't wait to get it!
Thanks Shazaam! Oh and sorry to put you on a "near impossible" commission. I'll look for easier ones on the next go-round.
No problem, RLewis. I'm actually very glad you asked me to do Child of Alara. When I pick cards for myself I rarely give myself a challenge like that; sometimes I have to be pushed
Labor Day weekend with no plans and my wife at work meant I had time to plow through my next commission:
As promised, I took a lot of pictures of the process, which I detail in the tutorial thread here. Because of how I put my cards together, there wasn't a point when I had all of the layers ready and could take a picture of them all laid out, so it's not always clear where there are spacers and where there aren't. I can change that later if people want, but I just spent a long while putting that together so it's time for a break
As promised, I took a lot of pictures of the process, which I detail in the tutorial thread here.
She's so beautiful.
I recently did a 2/2 M10 Zombie, where I tried your effect. Having something from one layer raised/dropped to another. I think I did it bad. I'll post pictures when I get a better camera.
@ThisIsMyName: you sure you haven't done this before? those are some nice clean cuts from what i can tell from you images. The amount of pressure, sharpness of the blade, and steadyness of the hand all are factors in making clean cuts and you sir/ma'am have created some clean cuts for your first attempt. i don't even think mine were that clean. Also, i have a few of that token and have been eyeballing it recently.
Yeah, that was my first attempt I appreciate you questioning whether or not it was! haha. Also, it is a sweet token to do.. I would've liked to do more with the background (lightning especially) and maybe more with his arm and hands.
I haven't done any since, but I really want to do this mountain or this forest next. I was lucky enough to start playing just before Tempest and collect a loooot of those basics.
I agree with ThisIsMyName that posting layers more often would be a fun idea, especially since most of the links in the tutorial thread are dead and the spacing/layering question comes up so often. I keep meaning to document everything I do for a card...so here goes. I'll be trying to document each step for my next card. I'll probably post a bunch of progress pictures in the tutorial thread when I finish, and just put the finished card in here.
Shazaam - I really appreciate you posting those layers here, I will definitely use that when I do a portrait of someone with a detailed background.
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By better edging do you mean the cutting or coloring the edges in?
And yeah, that is exactly what I did with the staff. And that seems like a good idea. I didn't think of it at the time, but even now I'm not sure I would have done it because I don't know how I could've made it seem as though it was going through his grip that way. If I get 6 more Shortcutters, I'll try it though.
Although, if you look at the alternate angle for my Shortcutter, it's clearly visible how all I did as the layers went up was remove pieces that were "deeper" in (Compare his leg to the edge-block, you'll see what I mean). Your Azami doesn't appear to have that repeated-layer structure. How?
Also, do you have decks for all of those EDH Generals? If so, I hope you don't mind, but we seem to have Similar tastes (I'm currently building both a Kresh and a Wort pile), so you might see some repeats here.
For edging, I meant coloring the edges.
My "base" technique (the primary way I do layering) is the same as yours - only cut out the deeper parts. You can see it a little in Azami by looking closely at the forward scrolls on the left side. Azami herself was put together with a variety of other techniques so there isn't much to hide. That was simply the art lending itself to a certain way of doing things, not a plan by me to avoid basic layering. I don't think you should do the shortcutter again, it looks plenty good - I just wanted to mention the technique in case it would work well on a future card.
I don't have EDH decks for all of the generals I've made - I wish! My current EDH decks are Phelddagrif, Wort, Boggart Auntie, Atogatog, Sivitri Scarzam, and Norin the Wary. Norin and Sivitri are not completed in 3D yet. I have about half of the generals I've made still in my collection, with the other half either being commissions or auction sales. Definitely post your versions of any generals you make! There's already been a couple duplicates posted in this thread, and I hope to add one of my own by the end of the week
Unspoken Realms: Audio recordings of stories from Uncharted Realms
Also, in regards to your bending suggestion, I made a Runeclaw Bear today, and I bent the forward arm back about 4 layers (I consider a spacer as a layer), while I bent the back arm about 2 layers forward, both of which added greatly to the 3-D effect. I'll try and get some pictures up soon.
I also have a question regarding your cutting techniques. I suppose the best example of your work I can use to explain my question is Tresserhorn. How did you keep the hair (is it hair?) from peeling or bending? I mean, it's so thin (width-wise). I've been having trouble with thin sections like that, so I figured I'd ask.
LOL
Despite my obvious fail, am I doing it right?
But can I get an example of how spacing is done?
This wolf token was my first attempt and I used 6 wolf tokens for each layering. But that's all it is. Layering. So what's this spacing about?
I think more people should post pictures of their individual layers so we can get an idea of what works and how
Edited - "finished" it. I like how it turned out for my first attempt.
This makes perfect sense. Now I understand what ThisIsMyName is doing with all those layers.
Alright. 2nd attempt will be... some common I have 50 of. Will be posting when I'm done.
Depending on the specific card I'm doing, sometimes I'll just take some jank common, cut out the art and use it a spacer (because I don't always have the patience to cut out multiples of the same thing). If you look at my Goblin Shortcutter or my Cancel on the previous page, both were done with 6 layers of actual cards and 5 "blank" layers (layers without any art in them). I played around with the Shortcutter a bit, as such I have things that exist in blank layers, but those are exceptions.
@Hix: What you say is partially correct. Spacing is to pull the layers a bit more apart so that the card does get more of a 3d look. This is especially helpful when you have a few layers and want to thicken the card or add more of a 3d look. I try not to make the same cut twice, so the layer and the spacer are never of the same cut. I use spacers only around the outer border, art/text box seperator (my mind went blank so i shall call it that), and sometimes the art and floating bits. When used in the art, it is there to reinforce the cut objects and to pull them away from the layer below.
@ThisIsMyName: you sure you haven't done this before? those are some nice clean cuts from what i can tell from you images. The amount of pressure, sharpness of the blade, and steadyness of the hand all are factors in making clean cuts and you sir/ma'am have created some clean cuts for your first attempt. i don't even think mine were that clean. Also, i have a few of that token and have been eyeballing it recently.
@brasil_dude101: i actually use lands as spacers. i have a crap-load of them so... yeah, i always have a lot of them precut as its a pain in the rear to do them when on a crunch time.
@All pplz new to this: there is no right or wrong way, only your way. Do what feels comfortable and natural. Practice, practice, practice. I wasn't instanly good at this, and I'm still learning how to do this after 3yrs of practice. And, while the tutorial page is a bit old and lots of pictures are no longer viewable, there are lots of random bits of useful knowledge there.
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
Perfectly said.
Do what you think looks good, and don't be afraid to try new things. Though, I probably don't need to say that since if you're making a 3D card you're not afraid to try new things
@brasil_dude: For wispy stuff like Lord of Tresserhorn's hair or the tie on the middle foreground scroll in Azami, Lady of Scrolls, I just use a new blade and cut very carefully. It's true, it's not easy. The biggest thing I've found is that I need to make sure I make each of my cuts fully through the card. Otherwise when I try to remove the bits I've cut out it's easy to tear/bend the part I want left in.
@Flamekin Demon: I do spacing the same way brasil_dude does, which is similar to how serrot does it (but not exactly - we usually recut lines, serrot usually doesn't).
Here's my latest. A couple of months ago I would have lumped this card into the "impossible to do 3D" group, but now it's done and I'm glad I took the commission:
Full Version - Alternate Angle
Unspoken Realms: Audio recordings of stories from Uncharted Realms
Anyone have dibs on those Jhoiras?....
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
Turned into:
Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR
That's awesome. Are all of the little rocks floaters? If so, wow.
BTW, how did you ever get people to start commissioning work?
It's so beautiful... After I get more practice with lands I'm gonna find something amazing to do. Something just as beautiful.
I started this thread at the beginning of May and there were zero responses for the first month. I posted some pictures of my cards to dragonhighlander.net near the end of May and got a few requests for commissions immediately there. The beginning of June is when people responded to this thread, and I got a few requests here at that point. Posting some cards for auction also got me a couple of inquiries.
I'm not getting rich any time soon from commissions, that's for sure. I end up putting so much time into my cards that I make a good deal less than minimum wage when I sell one. When I first started making 3D cards, it took me just a few hours to finish a card. As I've gotten better, the basics take a lot less time, but I put more into each card (lots more details) and I work on harder cards, so the time involved has gone way up.
Unspoken Realms: Audio recordings of stories from Uncharted Realms
@Flamekin Demon: You're right that it's a bit blurry, but even with the blurriness it's easy to tell how much better you did already. The raised red mana symbol especially looks well done, and I imagine that's a tricky thing to cut out. The shadows around the trees make it look like you did some spacing, too. Nicely done - keep it up!
Unspoken Realms: Audio recordings of stories from Uncharted Realms
I saw Shazaam's work in the [Official] Altered Art Thread, then looked over a few pieces that were on ebay at the time. After that I asked him to commission that big baby. The picture looks amazing, and I can't wait to get it!
Thanks Shazaam! Oh and sorry to put you on a "near impossible" commission. I'll look for easier ones on the next go-round.
EDH:▼
(links to 3D generals)
Playing: Designing:
Retired:
Labor Day weekend with no plans and my wife at work meant I had time to plow through my next commission:
Full Version - Alternate Angle
Unspoken Realms: Audio recordings of stories from Uncharted Realms
She's so beautiful.
I recently did a 2/2 M10 Zombie, where I tried your effect. Having something from one layer raised/dropped to another. I think I did it bad. I'll post pictures when I get a better camera.
Yeah, that was my first attempt I appreciate you questioning whether or not it was! haha. Also, it is a sweet token to do.. I would've liked to do more with the background (lightning especially) and maybe more with his arm and hands.
I haven't done any since, but I really want to do this mountain or this forest next. I was lucky enough to start playing just before Tempest and collect a loooot of those basics.
Shazaam - I really appreciate you posting those layers here, I will definitely use that when I do a portrait of someone with a detailed background.