Cyan, don't misunderstand me. I have a great dislike for M_Shumate (ask the staff), however, to warn him, and not any of the other trollish/spammy posts in that thread would not be a "good example" of "defending the site".
Rude as I was (and I apologize for that), being logical is a good thing.
1. If we censored MTP just because many of the staff members do not like M_Shumate, we'd be no better than Subterranean Spirit was.
2. Many of the posts in the prior thread were "less than desirable", not just one or two persons' posts.
3. This issue at hand is inevitably going to be "Do we allow advertising in signatures or not?"... The staff has made no rulings on this yet, so there was no reason for Alex to even be asking people to remove things from their signatures in the first place, let alone warn them for asking why.
He created it because he's a bitter crybaby whom just wants to cause trouble for your site, and you're only catering to that.
We welcome people to complain about what they view as an injustice. If they do it trollishly, they'll be warned for that, of course, but bringing up issues- especially legitimate ones, is perfectly acceptable.
Quote from Cyan »
And you know it. Maybe you don't think you can say so, but, I can...stop being a coward and defend your site.
;p
Quote from Cyan »
You are not addressing the issue that I brought up anyway. M_Shumate broke multiple rules in the 'other' of these threads, and was not issued a single warning.
It has been a relatively short span of time since those posts were made; it may be decided later that warnings need to be given, but such generally requires a measure of consideration, given the setting.
Quote from Cyan »
The fact that other people, some of whom were Staff, might have broken some of the same rules is irrelevant. People assume that Staff who break the rules get dealt with, because people have faith in the system.
People have faith in the system? Who would've thought of that? The issue at hand is not the fact that Staff broke rules too, but the context of the actions.
Quote from Cyan »
When you let someone come along and act like a total *******
Now, now, Cyan. Don't be that way. (I'm just lengthening the post. You once said that me quoting so many times was amusing to you, or something similar. And why deny someone amusement when it's no trouble to me?)
Quote from Cyan »
and break all of the rules, even if they MIGHT have just cause, it only makes you look weak.
Perhaps, but one must weigh the consequences of both actions; warning someone, perhaps unjustly, or looking somewhat weak. What the decision is depends upon the person, of course.
Quote from Cyan »
Shumate broke multiple posting rules, and should be disciplined for each one.
Probably.
Quote from Cyan »
This is only magnified by the fact that he was posting in the first place, supposedly, to request 'fairness'. Fairness dictates that he get warned for the rules that he breaks, not that he get away with it just because some Staff might have been out of line as well.
I don't think his main intention was to promote fairness, but to redress a wrong; to fix an injustice.
Quote from Cyan »
It's up to Staff to deal with other Staff, and regular users assume that this happens.
Yep.
Quote from Cyan »
It's up to the Staff as a whole to not let people get away with rules violations, regardless of the circumstances.
Probably. But you must remember the trauma which formed this forum; which caused this whole thing to begin. The members are sensitive; if they saw us "censoring" MTP, no matter how inaccurate that statement may be, they might decide to leave us for somewhere else. Whereas, I doubt anyone's going to say "Well, darn, let's head off to Brainburst's forums because this post wasn't warned".
Quote from Cyan »
Whether or not Frozenmage should have gotten those warnings is irrelevant now, M_Shumate, and how you are handling him(or specifically, not handling him) is the real issue.
Perhaps, but all things must be taken in their own ways.
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
Cyan, don't misunderstand me. I have a great dislike for M_Shumate (ask the staff), however, to warn him, and not any of the other trollish/spammy posts in that thread would not be a "good example" of "defending the site".
Obviously, you warn ALL of the unacceptable posts. If EVERY post was unacceptable, it doesn't matter. People should know not to break the rules.
1. If we censored MTP just because many of the staff members do not like M_Shumate, we'd be no better than Subterranean Spirit was.
I don't remember anyone stating that you should censor MTP.
3. This issue at hand is inevitably going to be "Do we allow advertising in signatures or not?"... The staff has made no rulings on this yet, so there was no reason for Alex to even be asking people to remove things from their signatures in the first place, let alone warn them for asking why.
That's not the issue at hand, that's an issue for later. Dealing with M_Shumate and/or all people whom break the rules is the issue at hand.
If it came down to do you let advertising allowed couldn't it be on Profit/non-profit or honestly is it that hard to keep track...If so then throw that idea out. Also if you do not allow advertising wouldn'y kill the amount of links to outer clan or group sections? This is not going to be an easy thing to decide on and should be taken very slowly to insure you reach a correct answer...
For the most part, the removal of "sginature links and banners" was directed at those users who had MTP in their signatures (otherwise, for example, it'd be illegal to link to My clan's forums that is in my sig). Those members are free to return those links and banners as they were forced to remove them without foundation. In time, the thread will be sorted through, and warnings issued, but for now, the best thing is to let it be. Who did/didn't break the rules can be taken care of later.
[font=comic sans ms][font=comic sans ms]Okay this is just dumb stupid!!!
Cyan and BB18, You guys are viewing what should be the issue at hand along with how you present the mod team to the public. Just stop now, you guys are essentially spamming in the thread where we can discuss what happened, and what the Salvation Mod team will do to deal with the current situation.
Personally the argument involved with personal bickerying between Alex and MTP. Along with with politics between how each forum is acting or w/e ****s like that.
Go back to the topic, actually.. just stop posting on the thread. Let M shumate and others to deal with the mod to come to an understanding. And report an essay okayed by each side to the public. DONE.
Dammit
Twinkee
EDIT - If M Shumate violated things like flamming and double posting, deal with it accordingly. If there were mistakes made by the mods here, deal with it accordingly. Please stop straying from the topic with bickering[/font]
BTW, all the rests of the posts in the threads will be put up for review in the mod lounge by the staff to determine which posts need warned.
Have they been reviewed? Has there been more warnings given or was everything found to be okay? It just seems like this thread never got resolution and now it just sitting here, for me it is like a Grey Cloud so could someone explain what ended up happening?
I agree with M shumate that it was a little extreme Alex to give him a warning for just trying to find out what he was doing wrong.
In case nobody read the first post carefully enough, Alex told M to do something, and M argued instead of doing it. Whether or not there's a rule against advertising, there is one about disobeying a mod's directions. What I don't get is why Alex didn't simply remove the offending link himself... do mods not have that power?
Was Alex right to ask for the removal of that link? WE CAN'T DETERMINE THAT. He is a mod, and regular users shouldn't sit in judgment of mods. That's for admins and gods to do. Can we say "insubordination"?
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Hey all... I'm retired, not dead. Check out what I'm doing these days (and beg me to come back if you want):
Was Alex right to ask for the removal of that link? WE CAN'T DETERMINE THAT. He is a mod, and regular users shouldn't sit in judgment of mods. That's for admins and gods to do. Can we say "insubordination"?
Well, while this is not a democratsy, they do want the community to continue coming here, so we do have at least an inderect say in what it is right/wrong for the mods to do. If the ruler of a country doesn't hear the opinions of the people, they will rebel. If our problems are not heard, we will leave, like we did with MTGnews.
*Note: this is not in relation to the issue at hand, but only in responce to Annorax's comment.
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Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05 Cool stuff here.
In case nobody read the first post carefully enough, Alex told M to do something, and M argued instead of doing it. Whether or not there's a rule against advertising, there is one about disobeying a mod's directions. What I don't get is why Alex didn't simply remove the offending link himself... do mods not have that power?
Was Alex right to ask for the removal of that link? WE CAN'T DETERMINE THAT. He is a mod, and regular users shouldn't sit in judgment of mods. That's for admins and gods to do. Can we say "insubordination"?
In which case.. mind I remind you that the intention of this forum and the modding was to be relating to the mod. If you have a problem with the mod, you are given the ability to talk to them and discuss about it. They did... which then lead to an argument, then to a complaint thread... and here we are.
BB18: Okay, I hope everything resolves and everyone's happy with it.
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The happiness of a man in this life does not consist in the absence but in the mastery of his passions. - Lord Alfred Tennyson
The issues of this thread seem to have been solved, and conversion died a while back. I'm goina go ahead and lock it so as not to drudge up the drama again. The admins are handling the warning issues, and if warnings are given, it'll probably be done in the usual manner.
Rude as I was (and I apologize for that), being logical is a good thing.
1. If we censored MTP just because many of the staff members do not like M_Shumate, we'd be no better than Subterranean Spirit was.
2. Many of the posts in the prior thread were "less than desirable", not just one or two persons' posts.
3. This issue at hand is inevitably going to be "Do we allow advertising in signatures or not?"... The staff has made no rulings on this yet, so there was no reason for Alex to even be asking people to remove things from their signatures in the first place, let alone warn them for asking why.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
We welcome people to complain about what they view as an injustice. If they do it trollishly, they'll be warned for that, of course, but bringing up issues- especially legitimate ones, is perfectly acceptable.
;p
It has been a relatively short span of time since those posts were made; it may be decided later that warnings need to be given, but such generally requires a measure of consideration, given the setting.
People have faith in the system? Who would've thought of that? The issue at hand is not the fact that Staff broke rules too, but the context of the actions.
Now, now, Cyan. Don't be that way. (I'm just lengthening the post. You once said that me quoting so many times was amusing to you, or something similar. And why deny someone amusement when it's no trouble to me?)
Perhaps, but one must weigh the consequences of both actions; warning someone, perhaps unjustly, or looking somewhat weak. What the decision is depends upon the person, of course.
Probably.
I don't think his main intention was to promote fairness, but to redress a wrong; to fix an injustice.
Yep.
Probably. But you must remember the trauma which formed this forum; which caused this whole thing to begin. The members are sensitive; if they saw us "censoring" MTP, no matter how inaccurate that statement may be, they might decide to leave us for somewhere else. Whereas, I doubt anyone's going to say "Well, darn, let's head off to Brainburst's forums because this post wasn't warned".
Perhaps, but all things must be taken in their own ways.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
Obviously, you warn ALL of the unacceptable posts. If EVERY post was unacceptable, it doesn't matter. People should know not to break the rules.
I don't remember anyone stating that you should censor MTP.
That's not the issue at hand, that's an issue for later. Dealing with M_Shumate and/or all people whom break the rules is the issue at hand.
For the most part, the removal of "sginature links and banners" was directed at those users who had MTP in their signatures (otherwise, for example, it'd be illegal to link to My clan's forums that is in my sig). Those members are free to return those links and banners as they were forced to remove them without foundation. In time, the thread will be sorted through, and warnings issued, but for now, the best thing is to let it be. Who did/didn't break the rules can be taken care of later.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
Cyan and BB18, You guys are viewing what should be the issue at hand along with how you present the mod team to the public. Just stop now, you guys are essentially spamming in the thread where we can discuss what happened, and what the Salvation Mod team will do to deal with the current situation.
Personally the argument involved with personal bickerying between Alex and MTP. Along with with politics between how each forum is acting or w/e ****s like that.
Go back to the topic, actually.. just stop posting on the thread. Let M shumate and others to deal with the mod to come to an understanding. And report an essay okayed by each side to the public. DONE.
Dammit
Twinkee
EDIT - If M Shumate violated things like flamming and double posting, deal with it accordingly. If there were mistakes made by the mods here, deal with it accordingly. Please stop straying from the topic with bickering[/font]
I do not recall flaming and or trolling.
Your wish is granted.
Warning for double-posting on a different thread.
-ButteBlues18
BTW, all the rests of the posts in the threads will be put up for review in the mod lounge by the staff to determine which posts need warned.
if you guys have a problem then resolve it.
edit: this post is about tw's not ms's
Have they been reviewed? Has there been more warnings given or was everything found to be okay? It just seems like this thread never got resolution and now it just sitting here, for me it is like a Grey Cloud so could someone explain what ended up happening?
In case nobody read the first post carefully enough, Alex told M to do something, and M argued instead of doing it. Whether or not there's a rule against advertising, there is one about disobeying a mod's directions. What I don't get is why Alex didn't simply remove the offending link himself... do mods not have that power?
Was Alex right to ask for the removal of that link? WE CAN'T DETERMINE THAT. He is a mod, and regular users shouldn't sit in judgment of mods. That's for admins and gods to do. Can we say "insubordination"?
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
Well, while this is not a democratsy, they do want the community to continue coming here, so we do have at least an inderect say in what it is right/wrong for the mods to do. If the ruler of a country doesn't hear the opinions of the people, they will rebel. If our problems are not heard, we will leave, like we did with MTGnews.
*Note: this is not in relation to the issue at hand, but only in responce to Annorax's comment.
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.
As soon as they reach a decision, they will notify everyone.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
In which case.. mind I remind you that the intention of this forum and the modding was to be relating to the mod. If you have a problem with the mod, you are given the ability to talk to them and discuss about it. They did... which then lead to an argument, then to a complaint thread... and here we are.
BB18: Okay, I hope everything resolves and everyone's happy with it.
Feyd
No longer staff here.