I would like to have a discussion about Toxicity in the MtG Fandom .
So , i m a consultant . I consult people , for work , thatis what i do .
I ve worked with people that work with people in MtG .
I ve submitted card ideas to coworkers to have them pass them along to their respective teams and then seen those cards in print .
Some of the Magic: the Gathering cards are based on real people and real life events , events that i was there at and witnessed personally .
On three boards - not one or two but three boards! - i ve revealed secrets about Easter Eggs in the design process , and on all three boards i was met with overt hostility .
The message i have been repeatedly handed is: "It is not blatantly apparent at a glance , therefore i do not see it , therefore it is wrong," with an unhealthy dose of "You should see a psychiatrist" ,
On three different boards , with three different *sets* of trolls , not just three trolls but three trolls *per board* , and loud enough and hostile enough that it makes other players not want to comment for fear of getting yelled at , or having their threads closed , or getting blocked outright .
There is _no_ reason for this level of hostility .
So what gives ka?
Why are people so terrified that there might be details they might not have noticed that they feel the need to vomit hostile incredulity at the first sight of intrigue ka?
Because it is one thing to be like ,
"Oh , that involves years of hidden back story that would take serious investigation in order to understand , i donkt get it" ,
and another to be like
"YEAH BUT JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE LITERALLY MAKING A CHUN-LI CARD WITH MULTIKICKER FOR A STREET FIGHTER SECRET LAIR DOESNKT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH JUMP/START BEING THE LAST THREE BUTTONS OF THE KONAMI CODE* YOU FSCKING RETARD"
*(Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A Start , i.e. Jump Slash Start)
So , yeah .
What the hell , Magic .
What . the fscking . hell .
When you posted before, you were trying to be super cryptic. You didn’t answer specific questions and instead responded in an entirely rambling manner.
If you you had said “I’ve worked with people who work for Wizards. I’ve heard through the grapevine that we are getting phyrexia as our first set in 2023”, that would have gotten attention and discussion.
Instead, you simply asserted it, obliquely referenced “Easter eggs” without telling us that you had supposedly left those Easter eggs through your ties with WotC workers, and so forth. You did not come off as a credible source.
Even now, with everything explained, I can say that your story seems a little unlikely. We have seen articles listing full design teams for sets and they do not typically include consultants in set design (though I will grant that Kamigawa was an exception as it had a cultural consultant). We have seen time and time again that designers say that they are not allowed to take unsolicited card designs (which is what you are claiming happened). Card designs are handed off between several teams before seeing print and often start off with a simple code name so the odds of you being able to submit “Easter eggs” and get them through to print is also fairly low.
With that said, I acknowledge that I do not know everything and that the procedure to become an established and reliable leaker is very straightforward. You give information to the Internet and wait for time to vindicate you.
Whether or not you posted this thread, you had better believe that I would be eating crow and posting an apology thread if “Ruins of Phyrexia” is released in Q1 of 2023. I’m not afraid to admit if I’m wrong.
Wow . "Eating crow" . What an incredibly unfortunate analogy for you to select , RoseBot .
Look . I could tell you that the card Radiant Epicure depicts the interior of the Church of the Holy Trinity in Toronto Canada , and that the singing woman in the picture s name is Tara , the church chef , and that the alt-art black-and-white sketch on Kitchen Imp depicts her in her favorite pose sitting out the back door of the church kitchen while she has a smoke .
That is how intimately i was involved in some of these design processes .
Yet i came in with what i felt like was kind of a cool way of trussing up some of the spoilers i knew , without giving away too much , and i tried to do it in a way that was - heaven forbid! - kind of creative and a little bit roleplay-y , and the first post past the post was a vomit of hate and incredulity .
You dont want to believe a stranger ? Fine .
You want to believe that a stranger is a liar after the first words out of their mouth ? Fine .
You want to personally foster all that hate in your own heart ? Fine .
You behaved like an unkept child .
The mod that closed the thread was equally hostile .
Both poster and moderator responded that , because they didnt understand it , it was wrong .
There . is . no . rational . reason .
for . this . much . hostility .
Wow . "Eating crow" . What an incredibly unfortunate analogy for you to select , RoseBot .
Look . I could tell you that the card Radiant Epicure depicts the interior of the Church of the Holy Trinity in Toronto Canada , and that the singing woman in the picture s name is Tara , the church chef , and that the alt-art black-and-white sketch on Kitchen Imp depicts her in her favorite pose sitting out the back door of the church kitchen while she has a smoke .
That is how intimately i was involved in some of these design processes .
Yet i came in with what i felt like was kind of a cool way of trussing up some of the spoilers i knew , without giving away too much , and i tried to do it in a way that was - heaven forbid! - kind of creative and a little bit roleplay-y , and the first post past the post was a vomit of hate and incredulity .
You dont want to believe a stranger ? Fine .
You want to believe that a stranger is a liar after the first words out of their mouth ? Fine .
You want to personally foster all that hate in your own heart ? Fine .
You behaved like an unkept child .
The mod that closed the thread was equally hostile .
Both poster and moderator responded that , because they didnt understand it , it was wrong .
There . is . no . rational . reason .
for . this . much . hostility .
I looked up the church you mentioned. Not a single internal or external image I can find depicts two adjoining walls that each have more than one stained glass window (both the entryway and the far end only have only one window), which is one of the few discernable details in the church from radiant epicure. The fact that you report to have given very specific influence to art produced both by Seattle-based Evyn Fong and an artist who has only drawn one card in the past and that you claim this was done in a professional capacity would imply that you influenced the artist directions sent over to the artists... but we have seen the types of artist prompts given in the past and hey don't typically include specific pictures of architecture/people to use as reference and writing "have the imp in a crouching/perched position" in an artist description doesn't seem like much of an "easter egg".
Again, I cannot prove definitively one way or another whether you are an accurate source or not. Only time will reveal that at the start of next year, when we see what "kayaking" really is. If Kayaking is indeed Phyrexia, we will have to give your words more weight in the future and you will be free to be as cryptic/role-play as you want at that point. People will say, "oh, there's the woman who knew that Phyrexia was coming. If she says we're heading to Shandalar, that's probably good info." The Magic Community has a looooooong history of people trying to spread misinformation (back to the days of "throat wolf" and beyond), though, and we routinely dump on unsubstantiated leaks to stop possible misinformation from spreading too far.
If you say that this hostility was across the board on three different forums, though, that shows that magic players did not appreciate your approach. Have you ever looked at r/mtgrumors? There are established ways in which people normally give leaks that do not involve going into a rambling mess of a role-play that they have not "earned" with past verification.
If you are a genuine leaker, I appreciate what you have done. Posting enough specific information about yourself and your involvement in the process that could have been theoretically screen-grabbed and e-mailed to wizards and definitely linked back to you so that you would be fired, blackblled and sued for violation of NDA is a very brave thing to do as, again, most leakers just say "here is the information, goodbye" without further incriminating themselves and complaining about why nobody is responding positively to the leaks... which is totally what a "real" leaker would do.
Have a lovely day.
Edit: To be clear, I’m not spending time out of my day to report someone who I do not think is a real leaker. I’m just trying to point out that this is an un-winnable argument at the moment. You cannot prove that you are legitimate at this moment in time without providing information that would be dangerous to you for legal reasons. The ONLY semi-safe option for you is to wait until Kayaking before coming back and telling me off… if you feel that any of the forums you’ve posted on are worth that type of effort. If Kayaking IS Ruins of Phyrexia and you come back, though, you would receive a much warmer welcome as, again, you’d have gone from an unsubstantiated leaker to one with a history for reliability. That type of history is the only thing that gets leakers an ounce of respect.
Wait... so are saying that the term "kayaking", rather than being a sports-related filler name that happens to start with the letter 'K' (which we've been directly told to be the case by the person who sets codenames) to follow up "Judo" (Brother's War), is actually a biblical reference? Are you claiming that you are a magical consultant who controls art direction and who has special insight into codenames (which are chosen solely by Mark Rosewater)?
If not, I hope you could see how someone could read that from your previous post. Even when trying to be as forthright as possible, you are still trying to be cryptic with layers of biblical allusions rather than simply making a statement. Do you think that makes you more credible? Do you think that coming to the forum and not engaging with things even a teensy bit before posing your role-play "spoiler" helps to engender good will to you? Do you see the irony in complaining about people saying you have mental health problems when your entire signature is the key chorus of Jem's "They" (a song ostensibly about paranoia)? There is tone deaf and then there is... this.
You are not Nostradamus. You are not Q-anon. Your admitted failure in successfully communicating your meaning in a way that other people would act positively to across three boards is a mark against you more than it is against magic players. At a certain point, if you goal is to get a positive social response, getting enough failures indicates a problem with your approach or message rather than your audience.
As I said before, this is a fight you cannot win and are ill-advised to try fighting. There really isn't anything you can do to prove your point other than waiting until August/September of this year when next year's sets are announced.
People can be hostile to your post and not be personally hostile with you, Giianzha. I think a big part of the mistake you made was that you created a new account, and posted stuff in broken English, with no contextual tease (bait the hook with some unseen official artwork or something!) This is an issue because most of the new accounts on this site are bots posting ads for things unrelated to Magic, and your post looked much like those. When I read your post it felt like I was reading an ad. And you turn around and get mad and throw out mean names to the people who don't like this sales model; You were a poor choice by the advertising team if you were supposed to reach out and tell us something. The fact that anything we could extract from you is irrelevant to the game is all the more "uphill battle" for you. You're welcome to be here I think, but if you're going to be a bit of a jerk in response to incredulity, expect some snapback.
what i posted
in "broken english"
is written in f l a w l e s s Phyrexian .
metadata object subject verb .
metadata object subject verb .
"[In Phyrexian(flawless)][what in "broken english"][i][wrote]."
metadata object subject verb .
go read the wikipedia article on Phyrexian(language) .
look up that incomprehensible table of verb conjugation trees .
go figure out
what "hybridizing Oggyam fire magic and abstract equations" has to do with the New and Improved Yautja-Annunaki pidgin they ve got tacked to all the important cards ,
and , not that i expect you to be savvy enough to understand what this is , if the New and Improved 5DragonsTM have got a New and Improved Yautja-Annunaki pidgin for their New and Improved Caves of the Damned-
you don't have any idea what this all means do you ka .
Just. Because. You didnt. Understand .
Doesnt. Mean. There wasnt. Something. To get.
You'll notice the utter lack of reference to "Yautja-Annunaki pidgin", that old Irish Ogham is referred to rather than "Oggyam fire magic" (fun fact, searching "Oggyam+Fire+Magic" literally gets zero hits on google") . You have zero verification and proof of having "secret info" that others don't have and you are repeatedly getting upset at us for not believing you because... "just trust me I'm real?". For the umpteenth time, even if you were 100% authentic, you have ZERO ways of suitably proving it without drawing a target on your back to be blacklisted out of the agency. Further, I would indicate that "pointing out easter eggs" does not prove you have any part in development... like, at all. Anyone could say "My uncle likes sitting in the same pose as card X", "card Y resembles a space near my home", or "Card Z is secretly referring to something else". None of those claims makes you unique.
Sharing the name of an "upcoming set" makes you unique but you can prove nothing until the start of next year. If you would care to spoil any specific mechanics, share what specific planeswalkers appear in that set, or spoil a piece of art in advance, that will give clout. Saying that Jin Gitaxias is a reference to an nineteenth century engineer who experimented with ethanol engines (or some other claim of "easter eggs") literally gives zero clout. Your opinion on what references what has literally zero weight unless you can prove that you deliberately slipped that in there (not just say you did. PROVE IT).
Further, copying the syntax of another language and calling that "flawless" is utterly nonsense.
People ha you woe understand did not.
You ha my no perfect na Japanese liking are ka?
I ha your no example woe perfectly de am copying yo.
Seriously, though, the burden of proof is currently on you to show concrete proof (NOT JUST EASTER EGGS) if you want us to believe your "consultant" angle. If you just want people to role-play with you and believe your claims about references between products... well, nobody seems to care. On three forums.
Out of curiosity what were the other boards you posted on? When you first brought this to our attention I tried to do some digging but was unable to locate any other MTG forum with a similar topic or response.
you don't have any idea what this all means do you ka .
Just. Because. You didnt. Understand .
Doesnt. Mean. There wasnt. Something. To get.
Cool, so tell us, or don't. We're hyped for cards, not for flavor. Flavor can be nice, but flavor can always wait. It's like the mustard of an MTG sandwich. You're giving us the mustard, and telling us mustard is good, but there's no bread or meat. I love mustard! But without the sandwich here, it is useless. Ka.
I'm not going to read a wikipedia article on phyrexian language. I'm a little touched but not in that direction.
Out of curiosity what were the other boards you posted on? When you first brought this to our attention I tried to do some digging but was unable to locate any other MTG forum with a similar topic or response.
I would like to have a discussion about Toxicity in the MtG Fandom .
So , i m a consultant . I consult people , for work , thatis what i do .
I ve worked with people that work with people in MtG .
I ve submitted card ideas to coworkers to have them pass them along to their respective teams and then seen those cards in print .
Some of the Magic: the Gathering cards are based on real people and real life events , events that i was there at and witnessed personally .
On three boards - not one or two but three boards! - i ve revealed secrets about Easter Eggs in the design process , and on all three boards i was met with overt hostility .
The message i have been repeatedly handed is: "It is not blatantly apparent at a glance , therefore i do not see it , therefore it is wrong," with an unhealthy dose of "You should see a psychiatrist" ,
On three different boards , with three different *sets* of trolls , not just three trolls but three trolls *per board* , and loud enough and hostile enough that it makes other players not want to comment for fear of getting yelled at , or having their threads closed , or getting blocked outright .
There is _no_ reason for this level of hostility .
So what gives ka?
Why are people so terrified that there might be details they might not have noticed that they feel the need to vomit hostile incredulity at the first sight of intrigue ka?
Because it is one thing to be like ,
"Oh , that involves years of hidden back story that would take serious investigation in order to understand , i donkt get it" ,
and another to be like
"YEAH BUT JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE LITERALLY MAKING A CHUN-LI CARD WITH MULTIKICKER FOR A STREET FIGHTER SECRET LAIR DOESNKT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH JUMP/START BEING THE LAST THREE BUTTONS OF THE KONAMI CODE* YOU FSCKING RETARD"
*(Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A Start , i.e. Jump Slash Start)
So , yeah .
What the hell , Magic .
What . the fscking . hell .
-Irini Sengir
https://archidekt.com/user/71716
When you posted before, you were trying to be super cryptic. You didn’t answer specific questions and instead responded in an entirely rambling manner.
If you you had said “I’ve worked with people who work for Wizards. I’ve heard through the grapevine that we are getting phyrexia as our first set in 2023”, that would have gotten attention and discussion.
Instead, you simply asserted it, obliquely referenced “Easter eggs” without telling us that you had supposedly left those Easter eggs through your ties with WotC workers, and so forth. You did not come off as a credible source.
Even now, with everything explained, I can say that your story seems a little unlikely. We have seen articles listing full design teams for sets and they do not typically include consultants in set design (though I will grant that Kamigawa was an exception as it had a cultural consultant). We have seen time and time again that designers say that they are not allowed to take unsolicited card designs (which is what you are claiming happened). Card designs are handed off between several teams before seeing print and often start off with a simple code name so the odds of you being able to submit “Easter eggs” and get them through to print is also fairly low.
With that said, I acknowledge that I do not know everything and that the procedure to become an established and reliable leaker is very straightforward. You give information to the Internet and wait for time to vindicate you.
Whether or not you posted this thread, you had better believe that I would be eating crow and posting an apology thread if “Ruins of Phyrexia” is released in Q1 of 2023. I’m not afraid to admit if I’m wrong.
Wow . "Eating crow" . What an incredibly unfortunate analogy for you to select , RoseBot .
Look . I could tell you that the card Radiant Epicure depicts the interior of the Church of the Holy Trinity in Toronto Canada , and that the singing woman in the picture s name is Tara , the church chef , and that the alt-art black-and-white sketch on Kitchen Imp depicts her in her favorite pose sitting out the back door of the church kitchen while she has a smoke .
That is how intimately i was involved in some of these design processes .
Yet i came in with what i felt like was kind of a cool way of trussing up some of the spoilers i knew , without giving away too much , and i tried to do it in a way that was - heaven forbid! - kind of creative and a little bit roleplay-y , and the first post past the post was a vomit of hate and incredulity .
You dont want to believe a stranger ? Fine .
You want to believe that a stranger is a liar after the first words out of their mouth ? Fine .
You want to personally foster all that hate in your own heart ? Fine .
You behaved like an unkept child .
The mod that closed the thread was equally hostile .
Both poster and moderator responded that , because they didnt understand it , it was wrong .
There . is . no . rational . reason .
for . this . much . hostility .
-Irini Sengir
I looked up the church you mentioned. Not a single internal or external image I can find depicts two adjoining walls that each have more than one stained glass window (both the entryway and the far end only have only one window), which is one of the few discernable details in the church from radiant epicure. The fact that you report to have given very specific influence to art produced both by Seattle-based Evyn Fong and an artist who has only drawn one card in the past and that you claim this was done in a professional capacity would imply that you influenced the artist directions sent over to the artists... but we have seen the types of artist prompts given in the past and hey don't typically include specific pictures of architecture/people to use as reference and writing "have the imp in a crouching/perched position" in an artist description doesn't seem like much of an "easter egg".
Again, I cannot prove definitively one way or another whether you are an accurate source or not. Only time will reveal that at the start of next year, when we see what "kayaking" really is. If Kayaking is indeed Phyrexia, we will have to give your words more weight in the future and you will be free to be as cryptic/role-play as you want at that point. People will say, "oh, there's the woman who knew that Phyrexia was coming. If she says we're heading to Shandalar, that's probably good info." The Magic Community has a looooooong history of people trying to spread misinformation (back to the days of "throat wolf" and beyond), though, and we routinely dump on unsubstantiated leaks to stop possible misinformation from spreading too far.
If you say that this hostility was across the board on three different forums, though, that shows that magic players did not appreciate your approach. Have you ever looked at r/mtgrumors? There are established ways in which people normally give leaks that do not involve going into a rambling mess of a role-play that they have not "earned" with past verification.
If you are a genuine leaker, I appreciate what you have done. Posting enough specific information about yourself and your involvement in the process that could have been theoretically screen-grabbed and e-mailed to wizards and definitely linked back to you so that you would be fired, blackblled and sued for violation of NDA is a very brave thing to do as, again, most leakers just say "here is the information, goodbye" without further incriminating themselves and complaining about why nobody is responding positively to the leaks... which is totally what a "real" leaker would do.
Have a lovely day.
Edit: To be clear, I’m not spending time out of my day to report someone who I do not think is a real leaker. I’m just trying to point out that this is an un-winnable argument at the moment. You cannot prove that you are legitimate at this moment in time without providing information that would be dangerous to you for legal reasons. The ONLY semi-safe option for you is to wait until Kayaking before coming back and telling me off… if you feel that any of the forums you’ve posted on are worth that type of effort. If Kayaking IS Ruins of Phyrexia and you come back, though, you would receive a much warmer welcome as, again, you’d have gone from an unsubstantiated leaker to one with a history for reliability. That type of history is the only thing that gets leakers an ounce of respect.
"You thought you were sick of the infighting in the Magic fandom? Just wait until you read 2 Kings!"
And if you cannot see how that is a reference to the exact topic of this thread , Learn. .
-Irini Sengir
If not, I hope you could see how someone could read that from your previous post. Even when trying to be as forthright as possible, you are still trying to be cryptic with layers of biblical allusions rather than simply making a statement. Do you think that makes you more credible? Do you think that coming to the forum and not engaging with things even a teensy bit before posing your role-play "spoiler" helps to engender good will to you? Do you see the irony in complaining about people saying you have mental health problems when your entire signature is the key chorus of Jem's "They" (a song ostensibly about paranoia)? There is tone deaf and then there is... this.
You are not Nostradamus. You are not Q-anon. Your admitted failure in successfully communicating your meaning in a way that other people would act positively to across three boards is a mark against you more than it is against magic players. At a certain point, if you goal is to get a positive social response, getting enough failures indicates a problem with your approach or message rather than your audience.
As I said before, this is a fight you cannot win and are ill-advised to try fighting. There really isn't anything you can do to prove your point other than waiting until August/September of this year when next year's sets are announced.
in "broken english"
is written in f l a w l e s s Phyrexian .
metadata object subject verb .
metadata object subject verb .
"[In Phyrexian(flawless)][what in "broken english"][i][wrote]."
metadata object subject verb .
go read the wikipedia article on Phyrexian(language) .
look up that incomprehensible table of verb conjugation trees .
go figure out
what "hybridizing Oggyam fire magic and abstract equations" has to do with the New and Improved Yautja-Annunaki pidgin they ve got tacked to all the important cards ,
and , not that i expect you to be savvy enough to understand what this is , if the New and Improved 5DragonsTM have got a New and Improved Yautja-Annunaki pidgin for their New and Improved Caves of the Damned-
you don't have any idea what this all means do you ka .
Just. Because. You didnt. Understand .
Doesnt. Mean. There wasnt. Something. To get.
-Irini Sengir
You'll notice the utter lack of reference to "Yautja-Annunaki pidgin", that old Irish Ogham is referred to rather than "Oggyam fire magic" (fun fact, searching "Oggyam+Fire+Magic" literally gets zero hits on google") . You have zero verification and proof of having "secret info" that others don't have and you are repeatedly getting upset at us for not believing you because... "just trust me I'm real?". For the umpteenth time, even if you were 100% authentic, you have ZERO ways of suitably proving it without drawing a target on your back to be blacklisted out of the agency. Further, I would indicate that "pointing out easter eggs" does not prove you have any part in development... like, at all. Anyone could say "My uncle likes sitting in the same pose as card X", "card Y resembles a space near my home", or "Card Z is secretly referring to something else". None of those claims makes you unique.
Sharing the name of an "upcoming set" makes you unique but you can prove nothing until the start of next year. If you would care to spoil any specific mechanics, share what specific planeswalkers appear in that set, or spoil a piece of art in advance, that will give clout. Saying that Jin Gitaxias is a reference to an nineteenth century engineer who experimented with ethanol engines (or some other claim of "easter eggs") literally gives zero clout. Your opinion on what references what has literally zero weight unless you can prove that you deliberately slipped that in there (not just say you did. PROVE IT).
Further, copying the syntax of another language and calling that "flawless" is utterly nonsense.
People ha you woe understand did not.
You ha my no perfect na Japanese liking are ka?
I ha your no example woe perfectly de am copying yo.
Seriously, though, the burden of proof is currently on you to show concrete proof (NOT JUST EASTER EGGS) if you want us to believe your "consultant" angle. If you just want people to role-play with you and believe your claims about references between products... well, nobody seems to care. On three forums.
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StaffCool, so tell us, or don't. We're hyped for cards, not for flavor. Flavor can be nice, but flavor can always wait. It's like the mustard of an MTG sandwich. You're giving us the mustard, and telling us mustard is good, but there's no bread or meat. I love mustard! But without the sandwich here, it is useless. Ka.
I'm not going to read a wikipedia article on phyrexian language. I'm a little touched but not in that direction.
MagicSpoiler_Disqus
GameFAQ_Forum_MtG
MtGSalvation .
also MCStories_Forum , though thatsl
a cross-
promotional product .
thanks for being civil .
-Irini Sengir
(tap out . reload! .)
-Irini Sengir
-Irini Sengir