So I'm new to magic and recently attended my first large modern tournament and promptly was asked to leave
Here's what happened, during my second vs I played a irritating stickler of a player upon the first game he was losing and I'm not certain if one of my sleeves was damaged or if he damaged it purposely. He asked if he could read one of my cards and promptly picked it up and I swear that he pushed down on the top of the card until the double sleeving caused it to split through the bottom, I can't think of any other reason why he placed his thumb over the top in such a way and I'm certain that it was not broken beforehand.
Immediately he yelled for a judge who came over and stated that the game had to be replayed and the card properly sleeved because apparently in shuffling I could feel the card and supposedly make sure it gets into my hand. I have mid range sleeves with thin plastic inserts for air protection and it does take considerable force to cause them to split at the bottom however upon testing myself if you place your thumb as he did at the top and push down enough it can happen and it merely looks like you are just reading the card. So obviously if anyone wants to do so in the future I won't let them pick it up.
During the second game when he cut my deck he set the top pile on the table and quickly moved to set it on top. During this he bumped a small section off of it and apologized replaced them, at this point I did not realize that he had replaced them upside down.
The replay began and even without the card he broke open he was losing. During all thishe kept shuffling his hand quickly making noise scowling at me and snapping at me double checking all my plays making sure I used enough mana and reminding me again and again that I only had a small time to decide on my plays which he always insisted on double checking.
As I got closer to the cards he had placed upside down he suddenly acted as if he noticed my deck and called a judge over who noticed that around 5 of my cards were upside down. For me I really can't tell as I play sleeves that are only one color with no discernable indents or markings.
Sure enough the judge had to warn me and again we started the round over and we were told to hurry instead of 3 rounds we would only get one due to time constraints.
This time I was watching when he cut my deck and he didn't do anything wrong. He was losing so he played a card that allowed him to search my deck and in doing so I hadn't noticed at first but he carefully placed a single card in it upside down before returning it. I went to pick up my deck merely to run my finger across it to make sure that he was not playing any tricks and upon doing so he became uncontrollable jumped up and said "hey hey put that deck down!!! We're already close to running out of time and I'm not letting you stack your deck again!!"
A judge came over looked at my deck and found one card upside down and that was the final straw.
I accused him and shared my side of the story, he accused me flagrantly and boisterously. The judges decided they had no choice but to remove me from the tournament and left me with a warning.
Now the strangest thing is that after it all I realized that all of his opening plays were identical. He always played the same exact cards and some how had the same spells and creatures available to him. I honestly don't think this is possible unless he plays 2 or 3 of the same exact cards in his deck repeatedly one enchantment and 3 different vampires with lifelink and one or two identical spells allowing you to remove cards from an opponent.
Sorry for the long thread but as a new player I haven't encountered such a volatile player in my roughly 2 years of little experience in the game. I do a lot of traveling around the world so I just carry decks with me and if the opportunity every comes I would like to continue playing tournaments or GP if at all possible which unfortunately due to my job is going to be rare.
So I'm just wondering how do you protect yourself against these types of players?
I won't go into a lot of what you said because it depends on context and the situation, but if a judge had you replay a game then you had a bad judge. Replaying a game that has already begun is never an option in any situation for competitive magic.
If I catch someone messing with my deck, if I suspect they may have slipped some cards in upside down do I need to call a judge to shuffle and cut my deck instead?
Until I can move to a new area I am probably going to run into this fun guy again and I've seen him playing his same tricks on others especially new players.
I missed out on a small tourney and saw him stalling. When it came to the final game he knew he couldn't win so he insisted on a coin toss(the tournament was out of time)
He won the coin toss and got his prizes.
He may be finished with our area however he no longer shows up and others are fed up.
If you ever get the slightest hint of this, call for a judge immediately and tell them your concerns. They may watch the entire game or not, but when it is a "he said she said" moment like this, I'd rather be the one instigating calling the judge since it makes you look less guilty.
When you get the hint that your OPP is manipulating your deck to his advantage, call the judge immediately : hey, I presented my deck to my OPP to be shuffled and he did weird stuff to my deck I think, can you please verify it for me? The judge should able to tell if he did, especially if he flipped cards over. But you definitely had a bad judge : there was no replay necessary here even if it were you who did weird stuff to your deck
If I catch someone messing with my deck, if I suspect they may have slipped some cards in upside down do I need to call a judge to shuffle and cut my deck instead?
Until I can move to a new area I am probably going to run into this fun guy again and I've seen him playing his same tricks on others especially new players.
I missed out on a small tourney and saw him stalling. When it came to the final game he knew he couldn't win so he insisted on a coin toss(the tournament was out of time)
He won the coin toss and got his prizes.
He may be finished with our area however he no longer shows up and others are fed up.
A note to anyone who may happen to see this thread, I'm going to go on a bit of a PSA because I have seen too much of this lately.
If you EVER see or hear a player asking to flip a coin/roll dice/play rock paper scissons to decide the winner of a game, you MUST call a judge. This is the textbook definition of Improperly Determining a Winner and is an immediate DQ at all Rules Enforcement Levels.
At ANY sanctioned tournament, including FNM, with ANY prizes, ANYONE WHO DOES THIS MUST IMMEDIATELY BE EJECTED FROM THE EVENT.
If your opponent proposes this to you and you do not IMMEDIATELY call a judge, YOU WILL ALSO BE EJECTED FROM THE EVENT. These are Zero-Tolerance penalties, no judge is ever allowed to decide to wave it off - and if one does, They will have their judge certification revoked and be BANNED FOR LIFE from all tournaments. What OP describes is such an affront to the game that if reported, the store would have WPN licensing revoked in a heartbeat.
To OP: Look up your Juge Regional Manager and send them an email about this. Include as many notes and names as possible, as this is a very serious offense that is likely to carry some very stiff penalties.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Look up your Juge Regional Manager and send them an email about this. Include as many notes and names as possible, as this is a very serious offense that is likely to carry some very stiff penalties.
Might want to tell people how/where to find that info. I think I do but I don't know if it's correct.
There is absolutely no situation in which a game would be replayed. There isn't even anything in the IPG that suggests such a thing would ever happen. You can't replay a game. If there was an infraction made, the player who made the infraction would either receive a game loss in the current game, or nothing at all happens. You can't say "This and this" happened during a game, so they should lose. Whoever this "Judge" was- Ugh. This angers me so much. I'm actually shaking a little over the total bull you're describing. Whoever you were dealing with, was either best buddies with the person you played against- or wasn't actually a Judge. There's absolutely no where in the rules where a game is replayed.
Good to know that I'm not the only one dealing with an odd player like this one, turns out that the judge is very good friends with him apparently they attend Grand Prix together, it seems that he and other players at this store are compulsive liars and cheaters making tournaments boring, I am hoping to set my phone to record them at some point to send it in to Wizards, it took a couple commander tournaments to figure it out, but nobody can possibly open with the same set of cards every single time you play against them, I suspect at least 5 players are stacking their decks or playing with multiples of the same cards, I believe that they are doing so in order to win booster packs and the occasional rares offered in tournaments. They change their decks for tournaments enough to confuse most but still the same combo cards continue to come out in the first few turns repeatedly, one plays a dragon deck and always manages to start with a sol ring or chromatic lantern, I kid you not every time its either of those.
I think because its a small store in a small town in the middle of nowhere they think they can get away with it, the judge is the owners brother and also is very unreliable but he can use the store stock to build up decks.
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Here's what happened, during my second vs I played a irritating stickler of a player upon the first game he was losing and I'm not certain if one of my sleeves was damaged or if he damaged it purposely. He asked if he could read one of my cards and promptly picked it up and I swear that he pushed down on the top of the card until the double sleeving caused it to split through the bottom, I can't think of any other reason why he placed his thumb over the top in such a way and I'm certain that it was not broken beforehand.
Immediately he yelled for a judge who came over and stated that the game had to be replayed and the card properly sleeved because apparently in shuffling I could feel the card and supposedly make sure it gets into my hand. I have mid range sleeves with thin plastic inserts for air protection and it does take considerable force to cause them to split at the bottom however upon testing myself if you place your thumb as he did at the top and push down enough it can happen and it merely looks like you are just reading the card. So obviously if anyone wants to do so in the future I won't let them pick it up.
During the second game when he cut my deck he set the top pile on the table and quickly moved to set it on top. During this he bumped a small section off of it and apologized replaced them, at this point I did not realize that he had replaced them upside down.
The replay began and even without the card he broke open he was losing. During all thishe kept shuffling his hand quickly making noise scowling at me and snapping at me double checking all my plays making sure I used enough mana and reminding me again and again that I only had a small time to decide on my plays which he always insisted on double checking.
As I got closer to the cards he had placed upside down he suddenly acted as if he noticed my deck and called a judge over who noticed that around 5 of my cards were upside down. For me I really can't tell as I play sleeves that are only one color with no discernable indents or markings.
Sure enough the judge had to warn me and again we started the round over and we were told to hurry instead of 3 rounds we would only get one due to time constraints.
This time I was watching when he cut my deck and he didn't do anything wrong. He was losing so he played a card that allowed him to search my deck and in doing so I hadn't noticed at first but he carefully placed a single card in it upside down before returning it. I went to pick up my deck merely to run my finger across it to make sure that he was not playing any tricks and upon doing so he became uncontrollable jumped up and said "hey hey put that deck down!!! We're already close to running out of time and I'm not letting you stack your deck again!!"
A judge came over looked at my deck and found one card upside down and that was the final straw.
I accused him and shared my side of the story, he accused me flagrantly and boisterously. The judges decided they had no choice but to remove me from the tournament and left me with a warning.
Now the strangest thing is that after it all I realized that all of his opening plays were identical. He always played the same exact cards and some how had the same spells and creatures available to him. I honestly don't think this is possible unless he plays 2 or 3 of the same exact cards in his deck repeatedly one enchantment and 3 different vampires with lifelink and one or two identical spells allowing you to remove cards from an opponent.
Sorry for the long thread but as a new player I haven't encountered such a volatile player in my roughly 2 years of little experience in the game. I do a lot of traveling around the world so I just carry decks with me and if the opportunity every comes I would like to continue playing tournaments or GP if at all possible which unfortunately due to my job is going to be rare.
So I'm just wondering how do you protect yourself against these types of players?
Should I single sleeve for competitive? Or should I invest in some expensive sleeves?
If I catch someone messing with my deck, if I suspect they may have slipped some cards in upside down do I need to call a judge to shuffle and cut my deck instead?
Until I can move to a new area I am probably going to run into this fun guy again and I've seen him playing his same tricks on others especially new players.
I missed out on a small tourney and saw him stalling. When it came to the final game he knew he couldn't win so he insisted on a coin toss(the tournament was out of time)
He won the coin toss and got his prizes.
He may be finished with our area however he no longer shows up and others are fed up.
A note to anyone who may happen to see this thread, I'm going to go on a bit of a PSA because I have seen too much of this lately.
If you EVER see or hear a player asking to flip a coin/roll dice/play rock paper scissons to decide the winner of a game, you MUST call a judge. This is the textbook definition of Improperly Determining a Winner and is an immediate DQ at all Rules Enforcement Levels.
At ANY sanctioned tournament, including FNM, with ANY prizes, ANYONE WHO DOES THIS MUST IMMEDIATELY BE EJECTED FROM THE EVENT.
If your opponent proposes this to you and you do not IMMEDIATELY call a judge, YOU WILL ALSO BE EJECTED FROM THE EVENT. These are Zero-Tolerance penalties, no judge is ever allowed to decide to wave it off - and if one does, They will have their judge certification revoked and be BANNED FOR LIFE from all tournaments. What OP describes is such an affront to the game that if reported, the store would have WPN licensing revoked in a heartbeat.
To OP: Look up your Juge Regional Manager and send them an email about this. Include as many notes and names as possible, as this is a very serious offense that is likely to carry some very stiff penalties.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Might want to tell people how/where to find that info. I think I do but I don't know if it's correct.
3BB
Sorcery
You lose the game.
Also,thanks for the PSA
I think because its a small store in a small town in the middle of nowhere they think they can get away with it, the judge is the owners brother and also is very unreliable but he can use the store stock to build up decks.